Racism, racism heeere racism

[GroundStrength]

A firefighter who reported finding a knotted rope and a threatening note with a drawing of a noose in an East Baltimore station house last month had placed the items there himself, city officials said yesterday

Ouch.


Officials identified the firefighter who they say acknowledged writing the note as Donald Maynard, a firefighter-paramedic apprentice who is black. Maynard could not be reached for comment.

Really.


Then...

The news of the hoax came a day after a report released by the city's inspector general found that the top performers on two recent Fire Department promotions exams likely cheated amid lapses in testing security.

and apparently since the initial charges of racism turned out to be false due to the hoax...

A black firefighters group had called accusations of cheating racially motivated after union officials questioned the test scores.


Cha-Ching!

I knew there must have been some racism buried somewhere in there.

but hang on a minute!

But the investigation found that five African-American firefighters had studied by using a 2001 exam, which is against test protocol.

Can't someone please find me some freakin' racism here, there was a NOOSE for god sake!!!!!

NAACP to the rescue...

"It really saddens us to hear that evidently things have reached a stage that even an African-American does an injustice to himself and his own people as a result of a negative culture in that department," Cheatham said when asked to respond to the unions.

The pot calling the kettle black.

Amen.

[GroundStrength]

Sorry forgot the link (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.ci.probe02dec02,0,5563956.story)

[cloudshipsrule]

Yeah, way to turn it around. It's not the black man's fault. It's those damn, oppressive whities.

[BPScooter]

There was a headline in the Seattle paper I glanced at, and it read something like this:

"Underprivileged children of color under-represented in Advanced programs"

Well, if you start with a norm, then there will always be 50 percent below. By definition. If you mean median.

[GroundStrength]

The issue for me is that most are far too quick to throw out racism as the cause of a particular incident without supporting evidence.

Where is the apology from Jesse Jackson for blowing this issue out of proportion. Where is the condemnation from Al Sharpton that this
firefighter did this?

I won't hold my breath.

[Rob Lister]

The issue for me is that most are far too quick to throw out racism as the cause of a particular incident without supporting evidence.

Where is the apology from Jesse Jackson for blowing this issue out of proportion. Where is the condemnation from Al Sharpton that this
firefighter did this?

I won't hold my breath.

where is the profit in that

[fuelair]

The issue for me is that most are far too quick to throw out racism as the cause of a particular incident without supporting evidence.

Where is the apology from Jesse Jackson for blowing this issue out of proportion. Where is the condemnation from Al Sharpton that this
firefighter did this?

I won't hold my breath. Still waiting I assume - aren't you glad you didn't hold your breath. My suspicion is that certain people and groups are trying to hold on to their old supporter quantities and finances. Things change guys!!

[BPSCG]

Don't you hate it when you have to say, "Jeeze, looks like Ann Coulter was right (http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/article.cgi?article=216)..."?

[fuelair]

Even a conservative can be right once or twice in their life :D!!!

[Darth Rotor]

Even a conservative can be right once or twice in their life :D!!!

The whole problem with the phony racism charges is the "cry wolf" nature of the approach, and the noise and friction it creates when dealing with the real deal.

DR

[JoeEllison]

Wow, I guess racism isn't really a problem, because someone can fine a few cases out of 300,000,000 Americans where someone lied about it? What's the point of this thread?

[Darth Rotor]

Wow, I guess racism isn't really a problem, because someone can fine a few cases out of 300,000,000 Americans where someone lied about it? What's the point of this thread?
I don't think one can be complacent about racism, not as of this writing, but perhaps the better question is:

What is the point of creating a phony racism charge scenario?

Cui bono?

Some might be practical jokes, of a sick sort, but is that a sufficient explanation for them all?

DR

[JoeEllison]

I don't think one can be complacent about racism, not as of this writing, but perhaps the better question is:

What is the point of creating a phony racism charge scenario?

Cui bono?

Some might be practical jokes, of a sick sort, but is that a sufficient explanation for them all?

DR
Some people make up false charges of rape as well, for all manner of reasons. Some of them might be suffering from some sort of variant of Münchhausen's-style attention getting, for instance.

Is there any conclusions about claims or rape or racism that we can legitimately draw from either instance? I honestly don't think so.

[Darth Rotor]

Some people make up false charges of rape as well, for all manner of reasons. Some of them might be suffering from some sort of variant of Münchhausen's-style attention getting, for instance.

Is there any conclusions about claims or rape or racism that we can legitimately draw from either instance? I honestly don't think so.

Besides that they both suck, and are hair trigger issues, probably not.

DR

[JoeEllison]

Besides that they both suck, and are hair trigger issues, probably not.

DRSo, I'm forced to question the point of someone posting examples of either situation.

[BPSCG]

Wow, I guess racism isn't really a problem, because someone can fine a few cases out of 300,000,000 Americans where someone lied about it? What's the point of this thread?Well, gee, Joe, if racism is such a terrible problem in this country, why does anyone need to gin up hoaxes? Wouldn't you think there'd be nooses hanging from the trees in front of the homes of every black family and swastikas on the door of every Jewish one in the country if racism were truly so rampant? And wouldn't you be hearing stories of Klansmen getting busted for it every day? After all, your typical Klansman is about 114 IQ points short of being a plausible Mensa candidate, and would probably get arrested about five minutes after committing the crime - or maybe even five minutes before.

As Coulter pointed out, there don't seem to be many "Campus Rally for Racism" events these days. What these idiots are doing is trying to prove a problem exists by perpetrating hoaxes. If there really is a problem, then you don't need the hoax, do you? The day one guy brings in a live Bigfoot, the rest of the Bigfootophiles can stop making phony Bigfoot footprints and making phony Bigfoot home movies.

And, as DR points out, the only thing these noose hoaxes accomplish is to make people doubt the legitimacy of the genuine article on those rare occasions when it does appear.

[GroundStrength]

Wow, I guess racism isn't really a problem, because someone can fine a few cases out of 300,000,000 Americans where someone lied about it?

Well, it would seem that it s not apparently as big a problem as many would like to make it out to be. I would offer that there is a much higher percentage of cases where claims of racism are made
but there is no basis for the claim.

This like many others was just an outright hoax.


What's the point of this thread?

To point out the hypocrasy of people like Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and the NAACP and the lengths they will go to in order to keep the gravy train moving.

[fuelair]

Wow, I guess racism isn't really a problem, because someone can fine a few cases out of 300,000,000 Americans where someone lied about it? What's the point of this thread?
Don't be silly - we are discussing cases where a BIG fuss was raised followed by the discovery they were fake. The fuss about racism came up BEFORE it was found to be fake in these cases.

Nothing about that makes racism unimportant - but it does provide a cover for the real racism that goes on still. Which is why it shoiuld be harshly punished.

In case you don't follow this - if people are concentrating on the kind of racism represented (mostly false flag) in these incidents, it is much easier to
not concentrate on where most racism is still going on now (employment, some law enforcement, education/educational expectations).
I have not heard recently about lynch mobs, highly active KKK, communities of any group being shot up and driven out recently in the past several years - the kind of racist activity these people/groups have faked isn't the current problem.

[BPScooter]

Fuelair, I'm really just plain curious about what you mean by "real racism that goes on still" as well as "harshly punished" and where specifically you think "most racism is still going on now (employment, some law enforcement, education/educational expectations".

Are you writing about the USA? It seems like you are. I'm really very non-cable-TV when it comes to my personal choices. The USA comprises a huge number of non-conforming people, slightly weird when provoked, yet capable of joining one another when necessary.

[linusrichard]

In other news, kidnapping has stopped happening - remember the "runaway bride" from about three years back? Yup. If there really were still kidnapping, why would she need to make it up?

Also, people aren't shooting each other anymore. It's true, here in my hometown last year a cop shot himself in the shoulder and said it was someone else who did it. (He said it was a black man, but that was a complete coincidence since we don't have racism anymore). If people were still actually shooting each other, why would he have felt the need to shoot himself?

And you remember that whole Duke Lacrosse fiasco, right? You got it - there's no rape anymore.

Also, O.J. was apparently innocent, or else why would the L.A.P.D. have planted evidence?

Or, wait - these are all stupid!



A lot of people like to look like a victim, perhaps in order to avoid responsibility for their own mistakes. These firefighters are an example - they cheated, they got caught, so they decided to pretend they were victims of racism. This backfired as well, and now they're catching blame - including from the NAACP and the Vulcan Blazers.

How does this demonstrate much of anything?




ETA: "Vulcan Blazers" = Awesome. Makes me wish I were a black firefighter.

[GroundStrength]

snip...
And you remember that whole Duke Lacrosse fiasco, right?

Sure do another case of contrived racsim. Thanks for making my point for me.

snip...
This backfired as well, and now they're catching blame - including from the NAACP and the Vulcan Blazers.

Some links would be nice!

ETA: "Vulcan Blazers" = Awesome. Makes me wish I were a black firefighter.

Do you have to be black to join this group?

[linusrichard]

snip...


Sure do another case of contrived racsim. Thanks for making my point for me.

snip...
I'm not averse to a snip now and then, when it's to save space, or something. Your snips seem to have a less honest motivation...

If your point is that sometimes people make up stories where someone is racist, then yes, the Duke story helps make your point. I think your point is somewhat larger than that.

Some links would be nice!

Sorry forgot the link (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.ci.probe02dec02,0,5563956.story)

Do you have to be black to join this group?

I have no idea.

[GroundStrength]

You said...


A lot of people like to look like a victim, perhaps in order to avoid responsibility for their own mistakes. These firefighters are an example - they cheated, they got caught, so they decided to pretend they were victims of racism. This backfired as well, and now they're catching blame - including from the NAACP and the Vulcan Blazers.

I asked for links to support the bolded assertion.


you hit back with my original links which states

From the article...the NAACP's position

It really saddens us to hear that evidently things have reached a stage that even an African-American does an injustice to himself and his own people as a result of a negative culture in that department," Cheatham said when asked to respond to the unions


from the Vulcan Blazers

Henry Burris, president of the Vulcan Blazers, when informed that the incident was a hoax, said, "I'm extremely upset, as well as hurt. I believed the person who told me [that the incident was legitimate] was telling the truth

I think that you misread the article or posted the wrong link to support the bolded assertion.

The only one catching blame from the NAACP is seems to be the infamous 'whitey' at the fire dept.

Or do you have new evidence of the NAACP and/or the Vulcan Blazers actually comdemning his actions?

[linusrichard]

From the article...the NAACP's position

It really saddens us to hear that evidently things have reached a stage that even an African-American does an injustice to himself and his own people as a result of a negative culture in that department," Cheatham said when asked to respond to the unions

from the Vulcan Blazers

Quote:
Henry Burris, president of the Vulcan Blazers, when informed that the incident was a hoax, said, "I'm extremely upset, as well as hurt. I believed the person who told me [that the incident was legitimate] was telling the truth

I think that you misread the article or posted the wrong link to support the bolded assertion.

The only one catching blame from the NAACP is seems to be the infamous 'whitey' at the fire dept.

Let's look again:

It really saddens us to hear that evidently things have reached a stage that even an African-American does an injustice to himself and his own people as a result of a negative culture in that department," Cheatham said when asked to respond to the unions
It is criticism to say that someone does an injustice to himself. I concede, it looks a little like Cheatham is saving a portion of the blame for "'whitey' at the fire dept.," but it's not fair to say that that's the only one catching blame.

Henry Burris, president of the Vulcan Blazers, when informed that the incident was a hoax, said, "I'm extremely upset, as well as hurt. I believed the person who told me [that the incident was legitimate] was telling the truth

Come on. Whom is Burris mad at here? Obviously the hoaxer (not "'whitey' at the fire dept."), and apparently whoever reported it to the Vulcan Blazers*, assuming that person was in on it, also almost certainly not "'whitey' at the fire dept."




*still awesome

[linusrichard]

Double post. Seems like such a waste. I really ought to say something here.

[GroundStrength]

Let's look again:


It is criticism to say that someone does an injustice to himself. I concede, it looks a little like Cheatham is saving a portion of the blame for "'whitey' at the fire dept.," but it's not fair to say that that's the only one catching blame.


I guess I read it more that the fire dept. was at fault for creating an environment in which the hoaxer had to act in this manner.

Evidence seems to suggest otherwise.


I could be wrong though.


Come on. Whom is Burris mad at here? Obviously the hoaxer (not "'whitey' at the fire dept."), and apparently whoever reported it to the Vulcan Blazers*, assuming that person was in on it, also almost certainly not "'whitey' at the fire dept."

I am looking for a condemnation of such actions, this was not that.



*still awesome

They very well may be.

[Leicontis]

Overt racism like was faked here does still exist (Jena Six, anyone?), but is a much rarer form of racism than the more subtle forms that are still common in the U.S.

Institutional racism is still a major problem, partially because it is often not consciously implemented. Some minority groups still suffer lasting socioeconomic disadvantages that linger from before the civil-rights era. Thus, practices that are discriminatory towards the poor discriminate against a group with a disproportionately large number of minority individuals.

Another element of racism is often visible in universities in the U.S.. Here's a question for those of you who have at least recently been in college - how many couples did you see of one Caucasian and one Asian, and how many of these were Caucasian male / Asian female? I've seen plenty of these couples, and I can't think of any couple with an Asian male and Caucasian female that I've ever seen. From what I hear, this is a very common situation. Granted, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but it does show at least some racially-influenced behavior.

Anti-Arab / anti-Muslim racism has spiked hugely in the U.S. since 9/11, and the media has not helped in preventing the demonization of any Muslim or person of middle-eastern descent.

[Travis]

Overt racism like was faked here does still exist (Jena Six, anyone?), but is a much rarer form of racism than the more subtle forms that are still common in the U.S.

Institutional racism is still a major problem, partially because it is often not consciously implemented. Some minority groups still suffer lasting socioeconomic disadvantages that linger from before the civil-rights era. Thus, practices that are discriminatory towards the poor discriminate against a group with a disproportionately large number of minority individuals.

I agree that things are still unfairly stacked against the poor in many situations but I fail to see how that is itself racist.

Another element of racism is often visible in universities in the U.S.. Here's a question for those of you who have at least recently been in college - how many couples did you see of one Caucasian and one Asian, and how many of these were Caucasian male / Asian female? I've seen plenty of these couples, and I can't think of any couple with an Asian male and Caucasian female that I've ever seen. From what I hear, this is a very common situation. Granted, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but it does show at least some racially-influenced behavior.

Someone linked to a study in the Is Intelligence Sexy? thread that indicates that men don't really care what race their significant other is but that women do and prefer their lover to be of the same race except in the instance of Asian women who don't seem to have such a bias against Caucasians.


Anti-Arab / anti-Muslim racism has spiked hugely in the U.S. since 9/11, and the media has not helped in preventing the demonization of any Muslim or person of middle-eastern descent.

Yes those anti-Muslim pogroms are so frequent these days. :rolleyes: Just look at the thousands rounded up and lynched right after 9/11. I mean Americans are racist and violent so surely those mass lynchings happened, right?

[GroundStrength]

Institutional racism is still a major problem, partially because it is often not consciously implemented.

Can you please elaborate a little more on this?

If not consciously implemented, how is it racism?


Some minority groups still suffer lasting socioeconomic disadvantages that linger from before the civil-rights era. Thus, practices that are discriminatory towards the poor discriminate against a group with a disproportionately large number of minority individuals.

Perhaps, but would not call that racism.

Another element of racism is often visible in universities in the U.S.. Here's a question for those of you who have at least recently been in college - how many couples did you see of one Caucasian and one Asian, and how many of these were Caucasian male / Asian female? I've seen plenty of these couples, and I can't think of any couple with an Asian male and Caucasian female that I've ever seen. From what I hear, this is a very common situation. Granted, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but it does show at least some racially-influenced behavior.

What does this even mean?

That white guys like Asian women? Big suprise, Asian chicks are hot.

I think you are confusing preference with racism. That is not a good thing to do.


Anti-Arab / anti-Muslim racism has spiked hugely in the U.S. since 9/11, and the media has not helped in preventing the demonization of any Muslim or person of middle-eastern descent.

...and the sames cries of 'Wolf' are beginning to happen.

[dann]

A lot of people like to look like a victim, perhaps in order to avoid responsibility for their own mistakes. These firefighters are an example - they cheated, they got caught, so they decided to pretend they were victims of racism. This backfired as well, and now they're catching blame - including from the NAACP and the Vulcan Blazers. True!
After a couple of robberies in people's homes recently (rather unusual in Denmark), a guy tried to cover up murdering his wife, pretending that robbers were the culprits. And, no, he wasn't black, nor was his wife, nor were the alleged robbers.

Is it true that the only purpose of the KKK hoods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan_regalia_and_insignia) is to cover up the fact that guys wearing them are actually blacks pretending to be white supremacists in order to make people feel sorry for them for being persecuted? :)

[Rob Lister]

Another element of racism is often visible in universities in the U.S.. Here's a question for those of you who have at least recently been in college - how many couples did you see of one Caucasian and one Asian, and how many of these were Caucasian male / Asian female? I've seen plenty of these couples, and I can't think of any couple with an Asian male and Caucasian female that I've ever seen. From what I hear, this is a very common situation. Granted, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but it does show at least some racially-influenced behavior.


That has to be the single-most failure of logic I've encountered since the last Oliver thread I read.

[rwguinn]

Let's look again:
Quote:
It really saddens us to hear that evidently things have reached a stage that even an African-American does an injustice to himself and his own people as a result of a negative culture in that department," Cheatham said when asked to respond to the unions


It is criticism to say that someone does an injustice to himself. I concede, it looks a little like Cheatham is saving a portion of the blame for "'whitey' at the fire dept.," but it's not fair to say that that's the only one catching blame.

A little?
It reeks of "Look what you made us do!" to me.
a case of "The "Negative Culture" is soooooo bad we have to cheat to make people aware of how bad it is!"
But I'm a bit sensitive: I'm Caucasian, my wife is also. Our son is Korean--(that's Asian, I believe?) and he dates a Caucasian female.
So that's one (1).

[BPScooter]

I know a couple and their toddler is: Mexcian+Swedish. The toddler is amazing, very thoughtful. Wonderful kid.

[Tokenconservative]

Ouch.



The pot calling the kettle black.

Amen.

My kids wanted to know if I will let them use the "I knowed I was a dummy so that's why I dided so bad on the test" excuse with me.

I laughed.

Told them they could give it a try.

And that I have only just scratched the surface of my store of creative discipline.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Let's look again:

Come on. Whom is Burris mad at here? Obviously the hoaxer (not "'whitey' at the fire dept."), and apparently whoever reported it to the Vulcan Blazers*, assuming that person was in on it, also almost certainly not "'whitey' at the fire dept."



Surely you are able to see that the NAACP has stepped in, discovered that the problem has nothing to do with race and everything to do with a cheater trying to divert attention from his cheating, and is now trying the ol' Congressman Willliam Jefferson, D, Louisiana, defense (when this crooked politico, D, Louisiana, was found to have $80,000 in graft payments stashed in his freezer--endangering NG personnel to save it being another issue--during the Katrina evacuation, the NAACP's excuse was "he were borned a poh black chile!") claiming not that any specific whitey at the FD is to blame but rather that ALL whities are to blame.

You really can't see that?

Tokie