So just who or whaat is Killtown?

[achtung circus]

OK, modify that, I "get" the what part of killtown, but is there a who? So many others are quite willing to put their personas out there for debate but my checking has not been able to determine this for killtown.

For clarity, I am not asking for address and phone number stuff here; it's just a gap in the information available that I found "curious".

:)

[Quad4_72]

Just your run of the mill lunatic. Nothing more.

[TheRedWorm]

I think the reason that there is no answer to this question is because that vile creature knows that if he ever revealed a full name, he would most likely be sued, or worse.

[SpitfireIX]

To paraphrase The Waco Kid from Blazing Saddles, well, killtown ain't exactly a "who," he's more of a "what." :eek:

[achtung circus]

I think the reason that there is no answer to this question is because that vile creature knows that if he ever revealed a full name, he would most likely be sued, or worse.

Thanks,

to all, I picked you at random for a response.

[16.5]

You know, I don't give a damn anymore.

I am going to say post something here that will make me seem like a Truther.

More times than not, I think Killtown, and the rest of the No-Planers, are in fact Disinfo. Not government, but really invested trolls.

There I said it.

And I mean it.

[Brainster]

You know, I don't give a damn anymore.

I am going to say post something here that will make me seem like a Truther.

More times than not, I think Killtown, and the rest of the No-Planers, are in fact Disinfo. Not government, but really invested trolls.

There I said it.

And I mean it.

That's wrong. They're insane, but they're not playing games or trolling. As I have often observed, the early 9-11 researchers are almost all nuttier than a Blue Diamond warehouse; the reason that 9-11 conspiracy theories are getting all the attention nowadays is that you don't have to be certifiable anymore, you just have to be a little wacky.

The "No-Planes" theories are classic conspiracy theorizing, and they arose in response to a genuine problem with the 9-11 CTs, that all the supposedly "non-disinfo" people in the movement try to avoid dealing with. The planes and the people on them make the conspiracy theories a very tough sell. We can believe that Muslim extremists might commit suicide by flying those planes into the targets; we have a much harder time believing that pilots for American and United would have done so. So the CTs wish the planes away. Some, like the "No-Planers" do it quite openly. Dylan Avery does it by saying it was other planes that hit those buildings. Flight 93 landed in Cleveland, or was shot down.

Really, there is very little getting around this problem unless you move to the remote control theories or the "gas everybody in the planes and set the autopilot to crash, then bail out in a parachute" notion. Or go to the LIHOP scenario where there were actual hijackers, but the gubbermint made it worse with controlled demolition.

As for Killtown, I think only Dylan knows his real name.

[JAStewart]

Has anyone seen Make Love, Not Warcraft? (the south park episode)

I think you'll know what/who I mean.

[Childlike Empress]

I think the reason that there is no answer to this question is because that vile creature knows that if he ever revealed a full name, he would most likely be sued, or worse.


If anybody has good reasons to sue that person he can do it, unless Killtown has far above average knowledge of Internet Anonymity - which i strongly doubt.

@16.5: Killtown is exactly as much Disinfo as Brainster is. :D

[Gravy]

As for Killtown, I think only Dylan knows his real name.No, Avery's not the only one.

[Gravy]

You know, I don't give a damn anymore.

I am going to say post something here that will make me seem like a Truther.

More times than not, I think Killtown, and the rest of the No-Planers, are in fact Disinfo. Not government, but really invested trolls.

There I said it.

And I mean it.Invested in what?
Also, have you ever met hardcore 9/11 nutjobs? I have, lots of them. It's very educational.

[stateofgrace]

Who or what is killtown? Well one day a lady, who just happened to be going about her business, took a photograph.

This lady was by all accounts an everyday citizen, but hey she took a photograph.

killtown said


If the smoke plume was photo-shopped on there, then that could mean either that the photo was simply a fraud by Val, or it was a fraud by her and the FBI and/or other government agents since she did mention that the FBI did inspect the memory card from her camera," writes a blogger identified as Killtown.


Mrs. McClatchey said


"This Killtown, whoever he may be, I find it very disturbing that this is a 16-page attack on me personally," said Mrs. McClatchey, who opened her real estate company a year and a half ago. "My business is named. That hurts me personally. It's pretty disturbing. My whole life is out there, a map to where I live, a map to my office. It's a safety issue for me. There's some crazy people out there"


http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

Indeed there is.

[achtung circus]

Mrs. McClatchey said




well I just went and read about that whole imbroglio. All I can say is Wow.:eye-poppi

[MG1962]

well I just went and read about that whole imbroglio. All I can say is Wow.:eye-poppi

Same here - and the whole thing is just sooooo sad. Ya just dont know what to say to this poor lass. It is okay for these cranks to troll around the net with their insane ideas. But now it is intruding into real life, and affecting this womans business dreams.

All because she was in the wrong place at the right time :(

[LashL]

OK, modify that, I "get" the what part of killtown, but is there a who? So many others are quite willing to put their personas out there for debate but my checking has not been able to determine this for killtown.

For clarity, I am not asking for address and phone number stuff here; it's just a gap in the information available that I found "curious".

:)

For a musical rendition in answer to your question, listen here:

http://home.iprimus.com.au/qarnos/Killtown%20%28Leave%20That%20Poor%20Woman%20Alone% 29.mp3

From the 9/11 The Musical thread here:

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3167925&postcount=323

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

No, Avery's not the only one.
I'm on the edge of my seat Mark... how is it that you have so much inside information to members of the truth movement?

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

Who or what is killtown? Well one day a lady, who just happened to be going about her business, took a photograph.

This lady was by all accounts an everyday citizen, but hey she took a photograph.

killtown said



Mrs. McClatchey said



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

Indeed there is.
Is this accurate??? Did he really post all of Val's private information?

[LashL]

I'm on the edge of my seat Mark...

Oh, how exciting for you. :rolleyes:

how is it that you have so much inside information to members of the truth movement?

You haven't been paying attention, have you? KillKlownboy has been the author of his own misfortune.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

No, Avery's not the only one.

Tell me Val MacClatcheys lawyer is the other one?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Is this accurate??? Did he really post all of Val's private information?

That's how he got banned from JREF.

[Alareth]

Is this accurate??? Did he really post all of Val's private information?


Yes, in between photoshopping pictures of victims graves with piles if feces on them.

[leftysergeant]

The sad part of it all is that he is not just a lone-wolf sociopath. He works in rather close collaboration with five other notorious web crawlers, to whit, Web Fairie, bsregistration, Rumpl4skn (who may well be posting here under an alternate screen name,) Jeff Hill (of pumitout.com,) and Genghis, a prolific producer of ranting pieces on YouTube. THere has been speculation that Web Fairie could be Killtown's mother. If so, it could account for some of his sociopathic tendancies by agency of fetal alcohol syndrome or other pre-natal intoxication.

"Dastardly" is not an inappropriate adjective to describe him.

[Oliver]

http://250kb.de/u/071208/p/5f041086.png

[Oliver]

By the way: The Image above is the last known picture of
Killtown. He's paranoid - so we will never know who he was.
Maybe some Debunkers will remember him.

[Good Lt]

By the way: The Image above is the last known picture of
Killtown. He's paranoid - so we will never know who he was.
Maybe some Debunkers will remember him.

When you saw that avatar at SLC back in the day (along with NesNYC's Ahmadinnerjacket avatar) you knew you were in for a loonfest of a treat.

[leftysergeant]

Please do not get upset if we show especial contermpt for KT. He is the author of his own misfortune, as someone has already pointed out. He has failed to do anything to win the respect of mature people, and has, in fact, deliberately made life miserable for others. He is quite simply, not entitled to respect.

The same could be said for his partners in crime.

In the meantime, being able to joke about the little sociopath helps keep us from getting too depressed and dispairing of the over-all human condition knowing that such critters exist.

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

Yes, in between photoshopping pictures of victims graves with piles if feces on them.
Well this is disturbing...

"Piles of feces"??? Seriously???

What private information of Val's did he post?

[leftysergeant]

Referring to him as Killclown or other degrogatory names is perhaps disrespectful, but certainly no less appropriate than referring to a certain one-time Chancellor of Germany whose career was (Gott sei Dank!) cut short in 1945 as Schicklegruber.

The boy has about as much respect for humanity as had the aforementioned Chancellor. He may even be a stealth Nazi. Lots of those in the twoofer gang.

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

The sad part of it all is that he is not just a lone-wolf sociopath. He works in rather close collaboration with five other notorious web crawlers, to whit, Web Fairie, bsregistration, Rumpl4skn (who may well be posting here under an alternate screen name,) Jeff Hill (of pumitout.com,) and Genghis, a prolific producer of ranting pieces on YouTube. THere has been speculation that Web Fairie could be Killtown's mother. If so, it could account for some of his sociopathic tendancies by agency of fetal alcohol syndrome or other pre-natal intoxication.

"Dastardly" is not an inappropriate adjective to describe him.
Wow... skeptics are harsh.

You are defaming some of my favorite 9/11 researchers. Not only defaming, but resorting to childish, immature attacks. Fetal alcohol??? Sociopathic???

That is ridiculous. These are kind, wonderful people who have feelings just like anyone else. At what point do we all stop caring about the person we are insulting? Why is it that we lose our manners and our sensitivity?

[Jonnyclueless]

was there supposed to be a conversation somewhere in here?

[NeoRicen]

At what point do we all stop caring about the person we are insulting? Why is it that we lose our manners and our sensitivity?
When they start dumbing down society with their utter crap, distorting science and facts and lying about tragic events for their own misguided, egotistical/financial/political gain. **** 'em.

And don't say 'our' as if you're also a skeptic. You are no skeptic.

[Hokulele]

OK, I know this will probably get ignored as well, but here is the link to KT's despicable behavior.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/06218/711239-85.stm

Alternatively, anyone can go review KT's posting history on this forum.

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

was there supposed to be a conversation somewhere in here?
Hmmm.... a conversation, I thought you guys just rip on people here.

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.

I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.

[NeoRicen]

If he got banned for it as the others say (I wasn't here then, or not visiting regularly at that time) then It's pretty obvious they would have been deleted. This is a skeptics forum, try to act like one.

[Foolmewunz]

Wow... skeptics are harsh.

You are defaming some of my favorite 9/11 researchers. Not only defaming, but resorting to childish, immature attacks. Fetal alcohol??? Sociopathic???

That is ridiculous. These are kind, wonderful people who have feelings just like anyone else. At what point do we all stop caring about the person we are insulting? Why is it that we lose our manners and our sensitivity?

Well, Xena, you're known by the company you keep, as they say. If you feel that the Killtown Posse are "kind, wonderful" people, then I'm afraid the honeymoon may be over, here. You think of this crew as your favorite "researchers" ? (Ga! It's hard to put that word on paper when talking about Killtown, Genghis, Webfairie, BSReg, and Jeff!)

And I see in a later post that you refer to KT as a friend? Yet you know nothing of his ignominious history? I'm finding all of this very hard to swallow. I call B.S. !

[Tbone]

Hmmm.... a conversation, I thought you guys just rip on people here.

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.

I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.

Val herself saying this isn't enough? Also, why would we (or anyone, for that matter) here provide private information on someone? Also, why do you want to see Val's private information?

[Hokulele]

Hmmm.... a conversation, I thought you guys just rip on people here.

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.

I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.


From the article linked by both stateofgrace and myself.

Killtown's blog links to hundreds of conflicting witness accounts and news stories, video and photos of suspicious damage and debris, and other 9/11 conspiracy blogs, attempting to build up a preponderance of doubt about the government's claims. Killtown posits whether the World Trade Center towers were brought down by explosives, and whether the Pentagon was hit by a missile. (The blogger identified only as Killtown could be reached only via e-mail. He or she agreed to be interviewed without ever revealing identity and never got in phone contact with this reporter.)

About Mrs. McClatchey's "End of Serenity," Killtown concludes that either the smoke plume in the photo came from a bomb blast closer to her house, or that the picture was faked by Mrs. McClatchey or the FBI. Killtown writes: "If the first is true, then Val may be off the hook. If any of the latter two are the case, then Val, you got some splainin' to do!" He then proceeds to post her home address, phone number and personal e-mail information.

[Jonnyclueless]

Hmmm.... a conversation, I thought you guys just rip on people here.

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.

I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.


No, all hou do is post about people ripping on people. YOu don't actually contribute to any conversations other than to take shots at other people. And then you start threads with no conversations that serve only to generate traffic to conspiracy videos (spam). This is what we call trolling.

And no you won't hold anyone accountable. No one here is going to post another person's private information or things that have long been removed. It's also pretty obvious that you are well aware of this and are simply using it as a means to attack others and pretend it's some kind of self defense. Seeing that you are a friend of KT now makes everything much clearer. It explains the trolling and antagonizing, and thread wasting. Gee, wonder if you are going to accuse me of childish name calling now?

Please stop pretending you aren't here to antagonize people as a favor to killtown.

[Gazpacho]

I want to see the private information he posted about Val
Use Google.

[Brainache]

Hmmm.... a conversation, I thought you guys just rip on people here.

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.

Good luck with that.


I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.

The information of Val's that KT posted was admittedly already on the net as it was on her business website. The problem is that KT re-posted it as part of his libellous attack on her. He was calling her a fraud and encouraging fellow nutjobs to harrass her.

The Faeces on the gravesite was posted over at the old LC Forum. I'm not sure if he posted it personally, but I remember reading his post where he said it was funny.

[Foolmewunz]

Xena,

In McClatchey's own words. From the same article in the PPG that both Hokulele and posted the link to.

Mrs. McClatchey was taken aback by the personal criticism by those who, she said, "hide behind their aliases."

"This Killtown, whoever he may be, I find it very disturbing that this is a 16-page attack on me personally," said Mrs. McClatchey, who opened her real estate company a year and a half ago. "My business is named. That hurts me personally. It's pretty disturbing. My whole life is out there, a map to where I live, a map to my office. It's a safety issue for me. There's some crazy people out there."

A map to her home and to her named place of business! Can you ask for anything more?

I cannot locate the link (and cannot remember the murdered girl's name). I don't know if it's still up on any of his various blogs. Being that it's 04:00 in the morning in the USA, I doubt if some of our more prolifice "storers of info" are still up, but I can assure you that someone's got links to it. (I'm preparing dinner for guests, so will be off this thread relatively shortly.)

[Hokulele]

Wow... I had no idea. I really liked him too.

Tell me, what has he done that is cowardly? What has he done to make you think that he is anti semitic? I am unfamiliar with the memorial site to the "murdered girl". Can you please provide me with a link?

As to "ruining" Val: I am still waiting for someone to show me how Kt published her private information.


It was on his blog as I have already shown you. In case you are still not convinced, here is where he admits to doing this on this very forum.

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1842037&postcount=78

[Jonnyclueless]

I believe he has even been banned at conspiracy forums such as ATS for harassing people. Also banned from Myspace and 911blog and youtube.

[Foolmewunz]

Found it!

The entire JREF thread is here. Her name was Suzanne Jovin.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=72722

And here's his blog on the "conspiracy". I cannot find the "Justice For Suzanne Jovin" site, but I'll keep looking.
http://killtown.blogspot.com/2007/01/yale-students-98-murder-linked-to-911.html

[jhunter1163]

The murdered girl's name was Suzanne Jovin. Look for her "memorial" page on MySpace.

ETA: Ah, damn, Foolmewunz beat me to it by seconds. Seconds, I say!

[leftysergeant]

We did nmot at any point stop caring about Killclown's feelings. Those of us with the pertenant education, experience and analytical ability to assess such things recognized him rather quickly as a sociopath, and a bloody dangerous one at that. The same goes for Jeff Hill. The boy is a total nuisance. If he did from this side of the border what he does from Canada, he would long since have had no money to pay for telephone service, or housing, for that matter. It's considered a crime in this country.

That the entire crowd, KT, WF, genghis, bsregistration, Rumpl4skn and Jeff talk out the wrong oriffice is immediately obvious to anyone with any training in aircraft design, aviation, fire fighting, photography or the law that these are some sick little twits.

I hope none of them have access to firearms. (Unless, of course, they all wanted to take me up on my challenge, in re the ability of cotton to defeat a human skull.)

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Referring to him as Killclown or other degrogatory names is perhaps disrespectful, but certainly no less appropriate than referring to a certain one-time Chancellor of Germany whose career was (Gott sei Dank!) cut short in 1945 as Schicklegruber.

The boy has about as much respect for humanity as had the aforementioned Chancellor. He may even be a stealth Nazi. Lots of those in the twoofer gang.

Nothing "stealth" about it. He came goose-stepping out of the closet on the old Loose Change Boards (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=7618) more than a year ago.

[leftysergeant]

I just became even more determined that the little dirtbag needs to be stopped and outted whereever he sticks his nose into the public debate.

[Oliver]

I just became even more determined that the little dirtbag needs to be stopped and outted whereever he sticks his nose into the public debate.


*lol* That's a "Klassiker" among all the opinions about Killtown... :D

[leftysergeant]

Did I mention that I feel that the Nazis were on the wrong side of the barbed wire?

[Oliver]

Did I mention that I feel that the Nazis were on the wrong side of the barbed wire?


Not that I remember - but I also have a hard time to state that
Killtown is in any way related to Nationalsozialismus or racism,
despite some tendencies I read from him...

[leftysergeant]

Consider for a moment who could most benefit from the whole twoofer movement, should they manage to utterly destroy the public's confidence in legitimate government, perhapos to the point that citizens take up arms to overthrow that government.

The white nationalists are all very well-armed and well-organized in small cells, trolling for useful idiots.

[Oliver]

Consider for a moment who could most benefit from the whole twoofer movement, should they manage to utterly destroy the public's confidence in legitimate government, perhapos to the point that citizens take up arms to overthrow that government.

The white nationalists are all very well-armed and well-organized in small cells, trolling for useful idiots.


I see and understand the connection you're drawing here. But from
my experience, not many of the Truthers are anti-semitic or even
support those ideas to the slightest.

Now there is a lot of suspicion concerning Israels role - which doesn't
surprise me at all and isn't anti-semitic in any way.

And I know that many are sick&tired of the way the government
runs the country - I'm one of those people being opposed to "policing
the world".

But even if the white nationalists have the same intentions - we
surely have different goals - meaning that if I'm for peace, rationality
and diplomacy, I completely disagree with the nationalists goal for
inequality, harassment and intolerance.

But what does this have to do with Killtown? :confused:

[leftysergeant]

Have you ever read The Turner Diaries?

His kind are called "legals." Their role in the RaHoWa is to recruit "useful idiots."

[Oliver]

Have you ever read The Turner Diaries?

His kind are called "legals." Their role in the RaHoWa is to recruit "useful idiots."


Quite frankly, I never heard about the Turner Diaries and I
don't care about other opinions very much anyway. So how
does this relate to Killtown? - What do you mean by "useful
idiots"?

To me, "useful idiots" are people who support every imaginary
WMD-threat the government propagates today.

[uk_dave]

To me, "useful idiots" are people who support every imaginary
WMD-threat the government propagates today.

Someone has to imagine the threat posed by wmd if used as a weapon of terror.

How real is the threat? Well, how much of a chance do you want to take when it might not be a few hundred lives at stake, but rather hundreds of thousands of lives?

[Oliver]

Someone has to imagine the threat posed by wmd if used as a weapon of terror.

How real is the threat? Well, how much of a chance do you want to take when it might not be a few hundred lives at stake, but rather hundreds of thousands of lives?


That's a political topic and off-topic. Killing 500,000 for flawed
intelligence or imaginary threats is what I call murder. And funny
enough, it's one of the rare things I agree with Killtown.

[Par]

That's a political topic and off-topic. Killing 500,000 for flawed intelligence or imaginary threats is what I call murder. And funny
enough, it's one of the rare things I agree with Killtown.


Oliver,

When a Ba’thist, an al-Qaeda jihadi or a member of a sectarian death squad freely chooses to annihilate a marketplace full of innocent men, women children or to sink a power drill into the knee-cap of an Iraqi interpreter, why do you chalk that up as an American war crime?

[Oliver]

Oliver,

When a Ba’thist, an al-Qaeda jihadi or a member of a sectarian death squad freely chooses to annihilate a marketplace full of innocent men, women children or to sink a power drill into the knee-cap of an Iraqi interpreter, why do you chalk that up as an American war crime?


I don't. And more importantly - while I would be glad if you start
a thread about that in politics since this is getting close to get
another "yellow card" - it isn't about Killtown, is it?

[FactCheck]

With all due respect, there is two things wrong with this thread.

1. It doesn't matter in the least who conspiracy theorists are. We should attack the misinformation they present and any motive they may have for presenting it.

2. It singles out killtown as a kind of leader in the movement because JREF is taking about him. He is just a loon like Christophera and his concrete core.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/stoplying.jpg

[Par]

I would be glad if you start a thread about that in politics...


OK, it's here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3226931

[MG1962]

With all due respect, there is two things wrong with this thread.

1. It doesn't matter in the least who conspiracy theorists are. We should attack the misinformation they present and any motive they may have for presenting it.

2. It singles out killtown as a kind of leader in the movement because JREF is taking about him. He is just a loon like Christophera and his concrete core.

http://www.geocities.com/debunking911/stoplying.jpg

I disagree - he has a reputation from his posting patterns on other forums that have nothing to do with 911

[Stellafane]

In my worthless opinion Killtown a sick, cowardly, and despicable example of the worst our internet-enabled society can spew up. I'd label him as Exhibit B for how 9/11 Truthers aren't just harmless loons, they can be potentially dangerous (Kevin "Hang 'em high" Barrett qualifies as Exhibit A). Killtown basically attempted to make a women's life hell, a women who did absolutely nothing wrong, a women who by all accounts still acts honorably and admirably concerning 9/11, simply because she took a picture he didn't like, a picture that exposed the insanity behind his lunatic ideas -- all the time hiding behind his well-guarded Internet anonymity. Sure, plenty of us also post anonymously, but it's to protect ourselves from the Killtowns of the world, not because we want to cowardly take cheap shots at good people with impunity.

I know I sometimes have trouble articulating precisely what I'm thinking, so if from the above any questions remain concerning what I think about Killtown, I'd be happy to elucidate further.

[Oliver]

In my worthless opinion Killtown a sick, cowardly, and despicable example of the worst our internet-enabled society can spew up. I'd label him as Exhibit B for how 9/11 Truthers aren't just harmless loons, they can be potentially dangerous (Kevin "Hang 'em high" Barrett qualifies as Exhibit A). Killtown basically attempted to make a women's life hell, a women who did absolutely nothing wrong, a women who by all accounts still acts honorably and admirably concerning 9/11, simply because she took a picture he didn't like, a picture that exposed the insanity behind his lunatic ideas -- all the time hiding behind his well-guarded Internet anonymity. Sure, plenty of us also post anonymously, but it's to protect ourselves from the Killtowns of the world, not because we want to cowardly take cheap shots at good people with impunity.

I know I sometimes have trouble articulating precisely what I'm thinking, so if from the above any questions remain concerning what I think about Killtown, I'd be happy to elucidate further.


The Val McClatchey saga certainly was the most annoying part
of Killtown's activities yet - even if I wouldn't mind about that
as long Killtown would provide his own personal Data as well instead
hiding behind his computer and post other peoples personal Data
instead.

From what I can say using my personal professional experience
with TV-fakery, my opinion is that he's pretty naive about the
complexity of such a stunt. But he didn't reply to my points yet,
so I have to think that he's still the coward he always was -
ignoring facts but spouting his mouth nevertheless...

[achtung circus]

With all due respect, there is two things wrong with this thread.


Sorry. As OP and new to the dialogue I had found it somewhat anomalous that Killtown was all over the discussions, to an extent that probably precludes a social life, yet had not made himself known ala Avery.:boxedin:

[FactCheck]

In my worthless opinion Killtown a sick, cowardly, and despicable example of the worst our internet-enabled society can spew up. I'd label him as Exhibit B for how 9/11 Truthers aren't just harmless loons, they can be potentially dangerous (Kevin "Hang 'em high" Barrett qualifies as Exhibit A). Killtown basically attempted to make a women's life hell, a women who did absolutely nothing wrong, a women who by all accounts still acts honorably and admirably concerning 9/11, simply because she took a picture he didn't like, a picture that exposed the insanity behind his lunatic ideas -- all the time hiding behind his well-guarded Internet anonymity. Sure, plenty of us also post anonymously, but it's to protect ourselves from the Killtowns of the world, not because we want to cowardly take cheap shots at good people with impunity.

I know I sometimes have trouble articulating precisely what I'm thinking, so if from the above any questions remain concerning what I think about Killtown, I'd be happy to elucidate further.That sounds more like wanting to label all CT's as loony as killtown. Most are not no planers and most will concider KT a nut anyway. If pointing to the looniest people and saying everyone from their group is as loony as them worked, there would be no republicans or democrats. :)

[Horatius]

Kt is a "friend" of mine, yet if he is doing something inappropriate or wrong I will hold him accountable.



I seriously doubt that, but....


I want to see the private information he posted about Val and the picture of the feces at the gravesite. However, no one seems to be stepping up to provide this information... that's odd.



http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2025876#post2025876

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2025559#post2025559

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2025078#post2025078

[Good Lt]

If pointing to the looniest people and saying everyone from their group is as loony as them worked, there would be no republicans or democrats.

We shant be so lucky.

[Stellafane]

That sounds more like wanting to label all CT's as loony as killtown. Most are not no planers and most will concider KT a nut anyway. If pointing to the looniest people and saying everyone from their group is as loony as them worked, there would be no republicans or democrats. :)

I'm not sure where you got that idea from what I wrote (and re-reading my post, I still don't). But for the record, I don't think all 9/11 CTers are as crazy as Killtown. Don't get me wrong, I do think a large percentage of them are indeed crazy. (The rest are misinformed, deluded, or opportunitists trying to get attention or make a buck.) But it would be unfair for me to say they're all as crazy (or potentially dangerous) as Killtown.

[uk_dave]

That's a political topic and off-topic. Killing 500,000 for flawed
intelligence or imaginary threats is what I call murder. And funny
enough, it's one of the rare things I agree with Killtown.

Well, you raised it to begin with. All I'm saying is that we 'ordinary' people have the luxury of both hindsight and of not having to take decisions which might end up being the difference between life and death for thousands of people.

Perhaps if you or I were in the position of having weak but compelling evidence presented to us that a rogue state with a history of having used wmd against its own people and a desperate, malignant fundamentalist terrorist organisation which had not only carried out an audacious attack against us but was still at large in the mid-east and was looking to aquire some of that wmd from the rogue state, we might act more from a selfish desire to protect our own country rather than give 'the benefit of the doubt' to a brutal, murdering regime.

It's just a thought us 'useful idiots' have from time to time.

[Oliver]

Well, you raised it to begin with. All I'm saying is that we 'ordinary' people have the luxury of both hindsight and of not having to take decisions which might end up being the difference between life and death for thousands of people.

Perhaps if you or I were in the position of having weak but compelling evidence presented to us that a rogue state with a history of having used wmd against its own people and a desperate, malignant fundamentalist terrorist organisation which had not only carried out an audacious attack against us but was still at large in the mid-east and was looking to aquire some of that wmd from the rogue state, we might act more from a selfish desire to protect our own country rather than give 'the benefit of the doubt' to a brutal, murdering regime.

It's just a thought us 'useful idiots' have from time to time.


If I was in the position to decide about life and death, I certainly
would compare the facts to get to the decision - including speaking
to both parts of the issue. Not invading a country knowing that
this will cause a lot's of deaths based on flawed information.

Quite frankly - it doesn't look as if there were any concerns
about innocent people or lives. So don't bother me about pointing
this out based on the evidence we have.

But no matter what your opinion is - it surely isn't on-topic or
what is Killtown's stance on that?

[uk_dave]

Killclown is boring.

But you raised the issue of 'useful idiots' and I responded to that.

Let's say you are in that position of power and responsibility as head of a nation. You have intel coming in suggesting that a brutal, murdering regime (Iraq) may be concealing wmd.

You also have intel coming in suggesting that the very people who attacked your country on 9-11 and who you have already gone to war with Afghanistan in order to destroy, have started making attempts to get cozy with this brutal, murdering regime (iraq).

How easy then is it to give Iraq the benefit of the doubt?

[Oliver]

Killclown is boring.

But you raised the issue of 'useful idiots' and I responded to that.

Let's say you are in that position of power and responsibility as head of a nation. You have intel coming in suggesting that a brutal, murdering regime (Iraq) may be concealing wmd.

You also have intel coming in suggesting that the very people who attacked your country on 9-11 and who you have already gone to war with Afghanistan in order to destroy, have started making attempts to get cozy with this brutal, murdering regime (iraq).

How easy then is it to give Iraq the benefit of the doubt?


How easy was it to believe in Hitler blaming Poland and declaring
them as a communistic threat? This isn't related to the the OP
in any way - and even if I don't have a problem to talk about this
issue, I already got several "Yellow Cards" for answering off-topic
questions. So just start a new thread if you don't want to break
rule 11:

11. Posts must be on topic to the thread subject. On this Forum thread drift is expected but must follow from the discussion.

[Brainster]

That sounds more like wanting to label all CT's as loony as killtown. Most are not no planers and most will concider KT a nut anyway. If pointing to the looniest people and saying everyone from their group is as loony as them worked, there would be no republicans or democrats. :)

I'm with Mark; most of these people are nutty in some way. It may not be obvious at first glance. I had a very interesting conversation with Lynn Pentz, a head of the LA Troofers, where she went through the the litany of nonsense with me. Now Lynn is a very attractive, articulate and intelligent woman, but of course she was spouting nuttery about nine hijackers are still alive and the hole's too small, and I'm thinking, wow, she's an incredibly with-it person and yet she doesn't see through this jazz?

And then she tells me the story of one of the rings on her fingers. The stone on it came from the palm of a statue that an Indian mystic had rubbed it and the stone magically appeared. And maybe she knew it was fake but she herself had witnessed ten miracles in her life.

Look at some of the "adults" in the movement:

Alex Jones: Clearly a manic depressive paranoid.
David Ray Griffin: Also believes in mediums, reincarnation, life after death, remote-viewing, etc.
Webster Tarpley: A major figure in the LaRouche doomsday cult for decades.
Barbara Honegger: Claimed that voices in her head told her to work for Ronald Reagan.
Jim Fetzer: 'nuff said.
Sofia Shafquat: Clunkety clunk.

And these are leadership figures, not fringe hangers-on! Maybe not as wacko as Killtown, but that's a tough standard.

[A W Smith]

killtown was banned for publishing personal information here
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=66750

[XenaWarriorPrincess]

When they start dumbing down society with their utter crap, distorting science and facts and lying about tragic events for their own misguided, egotistical/financial/political gain. **** 'em.

And don't say 'our' as if you're also a skeptic. You are no skeptic.
You are soooo right about that. Apparently in order to be a skeptic, one must spend the MAJORITY of their time insulting people, rather than actually debunking claims.

But thanks, I consider that an incredible compliment.

[stateofgrace]

You are soooo right about that. Apparently in order to be a skeptic, one must spend the MAJORITY of their time insulting people, rather than actually debunking claims.

But thanks, I consider that an incredible compliment.

AND your claim is what , exactly?

[Sporanox]

You are soooo right about that. Apparently in order to be a skeptic, one must spend the MAJORITY of their time insulting people, rather than actually debunking claims.

You missed the debunking claims part. Most of that occurred several months ago. It's what the search engine is for.

[Foolmewunz]

So, Xena? Just curious, here.

Now that you've seen the evidence, in his own words, in Val's words, and in neutral news articles..... Have you taken your "friend" to task for his heinous behavior? Have you asked your "favorite researchers" to explain just how their smarmy actions in these two cases brings anything to the Truth Movement.

I'd be real curious to know. I think it would be a terrific indication that you really are looking for truth in your porridge if you were to confront them on their own turf. (Of course, I wouldn't give them a home phone number and address.... you might star in their upcoming release, Defamation of Character, the Sequel.)

[chillzero]

I have moved some posts to AAH for bickering. Oliver and uk_dave - please take the derail to the appropriate politics thread. Oliver, I can see you have attempted to keep this one on topic - best approach is to point it out once, then not respond further, or report continued off topic posts.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I just became even more determined that the little dirtbag needs to be stopped and outted whereever he sticks his nose into the public debate.

Don't let KKKclown keep you awake at night, Sarge. He's already been stopped.

KKKclown is one of those "special children" who believe that no planes hit the WTC as well as no jews hit the gas chambers. He and his single-digit fan club are a very small sliver of an already insignificant movement. KT hit his zenith when he got his research credit on Loose Change 1 and ever since then he has been alienating the 4.6% of the public who are nearly as crazy and stupid as he is.

He would have been an a-hole without the tinfoil swastika armband. Just let KT be KT and he'll stop himself...


...assuming he doesn't get himself killed in a bar fight from stepping on the wrong toes.