Are you ashamed?

[EagleEye]

I'm wondering how many of you former believers, who are now atheist, feel ashamed to have actually believed once in the load of BS you were fed by whomever... your parents, your grandparents, etc, etc...

Personally, I'm just now getting over my shame of having once believed. Rationally speaking, I was not at fault for that belief. I was young, impressionable, and trusted those people with authority over me. In essence, I was drawn in to the greatest single mass-delusion of all time. With no one else around me to tell me to even DOUBT the word of my parents, their peers, all the adults in my life, and even strangers... I was a sitting duck for this scam.

On the contrary, I feel very proud of having been able to pull myself OUT of it. Having grown up Mormon, this is harder than most people may appreciate, seeing as how the mormon church is ... well, I was going to say "damn near cultish"... but ya know, it absolutely IS a cult.

How else can you describe it? You go to church for 3 hours on Sunday. Every sunday after church, you're expected to do "home teaching"... meaning staying dressed up with the tie, and visiting other Mormon families... or having home teachers visit you... As a high school student, you go to seminary every morning during the weekdays (before normal school)... Your boy scout troop is... you guessed it... sponsored by the church. All your scout-mates are the same people you're going to seminary with, the same guys you're going to church with... these are your peers, some of them are your good friends...

Breaking away from that sort of cult requires you to have the strength to not only give up your faith, but to also give up your friends, your peers... to isolate you from the world you grew up with, thrusting you in to a world you've grown up being told is evil... where anyone NON-Mormon is a horrible person liable to hack your hands off or something.

So my question remains... do YOU feel ashamed for having believed? Or are you proud you no longer do?

[Agular]

No shame whatsoever for once, a LONG time ago, believing what I was spoon-fed as a child.

[billydkid]

I'm wondering how many of you former believers, who are now atheist, feel ashamed to have actually believed once in the load of BS you were fed by whomever... your parents, your grandparents, etc, etc...

Personally, I'm just now getting over my shame of having once believed. Rationally speaking, I was not at fault for that belief. I was young, impressionable, and trusted those people with authority over me. In essence, I was drawn in to the greatest single mass-delusion of all time. With no one else around me to tell me to even DOUBT the word of my parents, their peers, all the adults in my life, and even strangers... I was a sitting duck for this scam.

On the contrary, I feel very proud of having been able to pull myself OUT of it. Having grown up Mormon, this is harder than most people may appreciate, seeing as how the mormon church is ... well, I was going to say "damn near cultish"... but ya know, it absolutely IS a cult.

How else can you describe it? You go to church for 3 hours on Sunday. Every sunday after church, you're expected to do "home teaching"... meaning staying dressed up with the tie, and visiting other Mormon families... or having home teachers visit you... As a high school student, you go to seminary every morning during the weekdays (before normal school)... Your boy scout troop is... you guessed it... sponsored by the church. All your scout-mates are the same people you're going to seminary with, the same guys you're going to church with... these are your peers, some of them are your good friends...

Breaking away from that sort of cult requires you to have the strength to not only give up your faith, but to also give up your friends, your peers... to isolate you from the world you grew up with, thrusting you in to a world you've grown up being told is evil... where anyone NON-Mormon is a horrible person liable to hack your hands off or something.

So my question remains... do YOU feel ashamed for having believed? Or are you proud you no longer do?If anything a former believer should be proud to have been open minded enough to change their minds about something so basic to ones world view. It takes courage and character to reevaluated closely held beliefs. It's the people who steadfastly cling to their conceits in spite of the evidence who should be ashamed.

[tkingdoll]

Ashamed? Nay. Amused.

And proud that I was smart to enough to figure out the scam.

[Oliver]

I'm wondering how many of you former believers, who are now atheist, feel ashamed to have actually believed once in the load of BS you were fed by whomever... your parents, your grandparents, etc, etc...

Personally, I'm just now getting over my shame of having once believed. Rationally speaking, I was not at fault for that belief. I was young, impressionable, and trusted those people with authority over me. In essence, I was drawn in to the greatest single mass-delusion of all time. With no one else around me to tell me to even DOUBT the word of my parents, their peers, all the adults in my life, and even strangers... I was a sitting duck for this scam.

On the contrary, I feel very proud of having been able to pull myself OUT of it. Having grown up Mormon, this is harder than most people may appreciate, seeing as how the mormon church is ... well, I was going to say "damn near cultish"... but ya know, it absolutely IS a cult.

How else can you describe it? You go to church for 3 hours on Sunday. Every sunday after church, you're expected to do "home teaching"... meaning staying dressed up with the tie, and visiting other Mormon families... or having home teachers visit you... As a high school student, you go to seminary every morning during the weekdays (before normal school)... Your boy scout troop is... you guessed it... sponsored by the church. All your scout-mates are the same people you're going to seminary with, the same guys you're going to church with... these are your peers, some of them are your good friends...

Breaking away from that sort of cult requires you to have the strength to not only give up your faith, but to also give up your friends, your peers... to isolate you from the world you grew up with, thrusting you in to a world you've grown up being told is evil... where anyone NON-Mormon is a horrible person liable to hack your hands off or something.

So my question remains... do YOU feel ashamed for having believed? Or are you proud you no longer do?


No.

I was young and needed the money. :D
Quite frankly - I don't care about that issue anymore.
(Have no Idea why Atheists hang all day long in here) :D

[slingblade]

Not at all. I'm proud of myself for having rejected being a sheep. That I didn't know any better when I was young isn't a cause for shame.

Had I continued, however....and never questioned it...that might be a cause for shame.

[Slimething]

No shame. I was fooled. I made a lot of mistakes. I didn't mean to hurt them that bad. Ahem, I mean I got better and that's some consolation. You can't learn anything without making mistakes. But ya gots ta learn.

[Robin]

So my question remains... do YOU feel ashamed for having believed? Or are you proud you no longer do?
Neither, I just moved on. The same goes for my belief in Santa Claus.

[Achán hiNidráne]

I am ashamed of my religious past, mainly because I held a lot of hateful, bigoted ideas as a result of me trying to be a "good Catholic boy."

[EagleEye]

All very interesting replies...

When I first went to post this thread, I was feeling somewhat ashamed... but believe it or not, the act of posting about the shame led me to posting about the pride as well, and by the time I was done, I was no longer ashamed. :)

[That_guy]

No shame here. I was raised not to question, and quickly learned that questions came with painful consequences. I'm just glad I actually tried to learn more about "my" religion; it's what woke me up.

[Silentknight]

I don't feel any shame. As a matter of fact, it could be said that most of my views today were shaped by my firsthand exposure to religion, both the good and the bad. The Lutheran school I attended, for all its faults, took a fairly liberal interpretation of the bible. As hypocritical and negligent as they may have been, I never got the feeling that religion was something they obsessed over to the extent of a lot of other religious schools.

I was disillusioned after I left, due to all the questions I had that nobody seemed to be able to answer. However it was a lapse over my subsequent non-exposure to religion that enabled me to think for myself. I did not have to break free in the same way that a lot of people have. As a result, I can afford to be more tolerant and understanding of Christianity, even though I feel the same way about organized religion as I'm sure a lot of people here do.

When I eventually went back and read the bible, I was able to apply an interpretation similar to the one I was originally taught. It's just a book of stories meant to teach people certain lessons, whatever they might be; it's not a literal account of history as fundamentalists claim, nor is it a completely worthless pack of lies as hardcore atheists claim. In other words, I was able to think for myself and draw my own conclusions about it. The bible is no more and no less than a book of Hebrew mythology, just as the Iliad and Odyssey are books of Greek mythology.

My past is a part of who I am today, and there's no getting around that. I've made mistakes and believed in things that weren't real, and I've corrected them and learned from them.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Nope. As with anything in life in which I have either been proven wrong, or have come to change my views of, I see it as a learning process and a formative one. I am what I am now because of what I have been. I reserve my shame for things like forgetting to take out the trash when I told my wife that I would do so.

[linusrichard]

Neither ashamed of what I once believed, nor proud that I stopped. Just kind of matter-of-fact - pride and shame don't enter into it.

For me, atheism was about the same as disbelief in Santa Claus. It may have happened a few years later; I don't remember. But it happened the same way. There was no atheist epiphany, I just got older, realized how implausible the whole thing was, and outgrew it. I'm not ashamed that I believed in Santa Claus. I'm not ashamed that I believed in God. I'm not proud to no longer believe in Santa Claus. I'm not proud to no longer believe in God. For me, atheism feels like the default adult position, that's all.

[kinkymagic]

I'm definately not ashamed to be an atheist, despite my mothers constant attempts to make me.

[Blackwell]

No shame. I grew up Catholic, and I'm happy to say I was able to pull myself away from the guilt and the vague threats. It can be traumatic on a kid when you think you're going to hell for every little infraction (and when I hit puberty and learned that having "impure thoughts" was a sin that I would have to actually confess to another person -- well, you might as well have just struck me down dead right there.)

[ntropy]

Yes.

[Zep]

What shame? Just realisation of a fact or two. Perhaps a small smile at the switching on of a lightbulb in my brain...

[athon]

I don't understand why one would be 'ashamed'. I can understand feeling foolish, which I strongly state for the record that is almost equally ridiculous to feeling shame (I can just understand why somebody would feel it).

People are animals. Not in the derogatory sort of fashion - we are literally members of the animal kingdom. We are primates. Hominids, in fact. Successful ones at that. That success is based on having evolved to become social organisms which have brains which are incredibly efficient at doing the jobs they are meant to do.

What our brains aren't efficient at doing is interpreting how the natural world works. It's like we're using hammers to do the job of a screwdriver.

So, ashamed because I'm a successful hominid in light of wishing I was something more? Nope. I'm damn proud that I see we are capable of using hammers to delicately put in a screw, though. If I was using my brain as it was designed - which unfortunately might involve believing in gods and afterlives - I can't be all that upset.

[skeptifem]

i was never really that into christianity. when i was into other religions for awhile... yeah, i do feel pretty ashamed about all that. oh well. i have the excuse of being young :p

[schlitt]

No shame, just despair, when contemplating the billions who remain decieved and the reasons why.

[dacium2007]

I have only known 1 person in my entire life who went from religions to being athiest and he died in a tragic accident aged just 16. I think its extremely hard to break away, way more hard than just being brought up free from religion (athiest by default I suppose, as never had a beliefe in god). I would think most athiests would respect you ALOT, I would. Its much easier for us to learn about religion knowing its nonsense, but when you are taught it as a kid it becomes part of your life. To step up and say to everyone you know that they are just plain wrong (especially if your whole family is relligous) is an incredable accievement

[-Fran-]

I have no memory of believing in a god as a kid (or in santa). I'm sure I did believe in Santa, but the end of that belief must have been a totally untraumatic experience since I have no recollection of when it happened.
Members of my family and extended family might have different sorts of more or less superstitious beliefs, or are in any case seeing some Christian traditions as natural, (and there's lots of other woo beliefs among them). But religion/Christianity on the whole was pretty much a non-issue when I grew up, and I was never influenced in any conscious way in either direction from my family. I grew up having to find out stuff by myself, and was a regular book worm from early age. By the time I was around 11-12 and we got a very religious teacher in school who could not keep Jesus out of anything, I was already skeptical about the whole thing. As soon as I understood what an atheist was I knew it was me.

Being an atheist has never cost me anything, the ones I care about don't care whether I am, or not. My family does the "big things" in church such as child-christenings, confirmations, weddings and funerals out of tradition and cultural reasons mostly, and I have no problems with playing along those few times. I'm there, that's mostly it, but never participate in things like prayers and the like. No one has ever seemed to even notice, or demanded anything else of me. I have never been persuaded to do anything.

When I realized what pressure some people are living under though, and what it has cost them to reject religion I was sad and angry. I admire those who have left this indoctrination behind. There is sure no need to feel ashamed.

In my teens though I tried out a long row of different woo, because I was looking for something cool, that was pretty much it. I was often drawn to the objects at first. I guess I have a really bad taste :D I was fascinated by the art of tarot cards, for example, and therefore wanted to learn how to use them as well. I have always been interested in the dark and macabre, so I was drawn to ghost-woo and such... and so on.

But every time I started to really learn what it was all about, I was always disappointed. I thought there would be more to it, that there would actually be real evidence and so on... But I was always disappointed. My whole journey along the road of woo was sprinkled with countless moments of "What? It wasn't more than this?"

I started to learn more and more about the facts, and in my early 20s it was like I was speeding up and picked up one woo a week almost, that I read up on and then discarded the next week. It was all my own journey though, and playing around with my friends and such. I've never been to a psychic or a fortuneteller and similar, never paid for woo-services, never was in a group or movement or anything like that. I've always disliked to be a part of a group, and always wanted to check things up by myself. I mostly bought "pretty" things and then I went to the library to read about it (pre-Internet times here :)) and as soon as I read about it, I had to discard it. (The woo around the objects that is, not the objects in themselves, I still have most of it.)

I guess I am not ashamed, but more a bit embarrassed that I kept looking for something in the woo-world that would have some substance. I think I should have realized much sooner that if I had to discard so many things, the next thing would probably not be of any more substance either. But I learned a lot along the way, so I guess it was not in vain. I would not have learnt to recognize woo when I see it as well, or would not be able to think as critically as I can today, if it had not been for that search for something cool that would actually work (though there is still room for improvement of course, I still have a lot to learn.)

I still have a bad taste in clothes and jewelry and home decoration and such, though :blush:

[KingMerv00]

There is little I admire more in people than the ability to change deeply held beliefs. There shouldn't be any shame.

[This Guy]

When I think of some of the things I did as a Christian (attempt to convert others and what have you) I feel a bit ashamed.

As far as dumping religion, no shame there. I'm just glad that my attempt to learn more about the bible started me on the right path toward the truth.

[EagleEye]

When I think of some of the things I did as a Christian (attempt to convert others and what have you) I feel a bit ashamed.

Ya know, this is what actually prompted me to post this thread. I was thinking about an old ex-girlfriend of mine from when I was 16... I remembered going to her baptism when she joined the Mormon church, and how proud I was of her.

I recently got in touch with her (like 2 years ago), and she told me how much she hated the Mormon church and how she was just "christian" now, etc... The other night I was thinking about the whole baptism thing and I felt ashamed for having pushed her towards it.

[kittynh]

Eagle, was it difficult for your family though?

I know a lot of EX whatevers that say the hardest part was being honest with their families.

I know a few that "fake it" for the family, Xmas eve services and such, because the price paid for not just going along would be too much.

I so respect people that really ARE honest and open, it takes real bravery.

[Tanstaafl]

No shame on me.

I just believed what I was told, but even as a small child there were always doubts. And I grew up in a church which didn't require that I hate anyone, so there was no problem there either. Of course if we all read our bibles a little more dilligently we would have found reasons to hate others, but no one seemed to. Fortunate, that.

[Bluefire]

No shame. I was a kid, and got out of the whole faith thing at an age of about 14-15 yrs.

Kinda hard to be ashamed of being temporarily fooled by ones parents.

[Beerina]

Not so much ashamed as somewhat angry at the idiocy of the entire racket, scam, fraudulent enterprise, flat-out lie, and what it has done as a meme-like parasite on humanity.

As far as "well, religion did bring about things like valuable works of art", well, that's akin to touting communism because communists produced works of art or great athletes, all the while the government said, "Do a good job and we will give you a nice house to live in".

Even more accurately, said works of art are more like the child of a rape. The innocent child can be dear and loved, while the act which brought it about abhorrent. Said child is in no way, shape, or form, an argument for continuing to have rapes.

[Moochie]

You are all going to Hell. Which is, of course, THE place to be. :D

M.

[Charlie Monoxide]

I was raised Catholic. The brain-washing started early with being dragged to church weekly, reading of rosaries with my grandmother, and being sent to a separate school (Catholic here in Canada). I calmly accepted it, but then again, that's how good brain-washing works. No guilt here.

I always hated going to church. I felt there was always many more better ways to spend my time.

When I hit puberty, between trying to get with girls, I started questioning the whole scam of religion. It took me till my early 20's to fully reject the whole concept of religion.

I still remember being terrified of "going to hell". I agree with Dawkins (et al) that exposing children to religion at an early age is abusive.

Charlie (happily sane now) Monoxide

[Roboramma]

When I first opened this thread I thought, "what are you talking about? Why would I be ashamed of that!"

Then I remembered the summer I spent with my grandmother. Every sunday I would go to church with her, mainly because it made her happy. In the evenings we often had long discussions about religion. She's a pretty smart old lady and we'd talk until the karosene lamps had burned low.

Anyway, during that time I was already still pretty unclear as to what I thought about religion in general and christianity in particular. I allowed myself to be convinced by some pretty weak arguments that I think now I should have seen through. In fact, to be honest, I did see through them. But somehow I let emotion get in the way. I even had some "religious experiences". At one point, I remember walking down a dirt road after a thunderstorm (or maybe just before, I don't remember), looking up at these magnificent clouds, and convincing myself that god was talking to me.
There were a couple of similar experiences. They all came down to an overactive imagination (I'd had such experiences before, but at times when I was immersed in religious culture - I attributed them to aliens when I was young, for instance).

Anyway, I do feel a little ashamed of the fact that I so easily fell in to that religious culture and accepted so much of it (though of course by no means all). I was a lot more uncertain about things at the time, but still...

On the other hand, that experience, I think, helps me to better understand believers, so it certainly had value. :)

[St.Michael]

I am ashamed of my religious past, mainly because I held a lot of hateful, bigoted ideas as a result of me trying to be a "good Catholic boy."

Same here, although I wasn't a Catholic. I was trying to be a good "Onward Christian soldier" like the rest of my family. :boxedin:

[Prometheus]

As Jerry Andrus used to say, "I can only fool you because of your wonderful brain!"

I don't think there's anything the least bit shameful about having been woo in whatever form. The human brain is practically a woo-engine, and only the very best of us ever overcome this natural programming.

Also, whoever you are, you got that way via the person you were before, so if you believe you're a good person now, then you should only be thankful for the sum of experiences that made (or allowed) you to become that way.

I was raised Catholic, toyed with converting to Budhism after college, and am now atheist. My wife is a fundamentalist Christian, and even though I believe she's deluded, I'm not ashamed of her anymore than I am of my former self, because she's a truly good person, and to paraphrase a line from one of the Star Trek movies, my ability to love and feel compassion for someone is not limited by my estimate of her ability to think critically.

[Abe_the_Man]

Eagle, was it difficult for your family though?

I know a lot of EX whatevers that say the hardest part was being honest with their families.

I know a few that "fake it" for the family, Xmas eve services and such, because the price paid for not just going along would be too much.

I so respect people that really ARE honest and open, it takes real bravery.

I'm a bit ashamed to say I'm one of those who fake it for the family. Myself and one of my brothers and one of my sisters are all atheist but none of us have told mom or dad. Basically it's because we have never been asked our beliefs. If asked I would tell them but I dread the day when I have to. I imagine there will be a lot of hurt feelings for a while. Luckily they have never been overly religious as long as you "Walk with god" (be a good person).

[Ipecac]

A bit of regret and embarassment about my former beliefs. But I'm very proud now that I threw it all away.

[EagleEye]

Eagle, was it difficult for your family though?

I know a lot of EX whatevers that say the hardest part was being honest with their families.

I know a few that "fake it" for the family, Xmas eve services and such, because the price paid for not just going along would be too much.

I so respect people that really ARE honest and open, it takes real bravery.

Well, let me see...

My dad was raised as a European Catholic... altar boy and everything... IN AUSTRIA! Went Atheist, joined the Mormon church with my mom to try to save the marriage I guess... he's back to be atheist.

My oldest brother was 6 when they joined... went to church, did a rebellion, stopped believing, got married... to a catholic girl... started raising his kids with religion (to save the marriage)... is now atheist.

My 2nd older brother (I'm the middle of 5) was the pious one of the family... the only one that went on a mission. Very philisophical... contemplates things a lot, gets to the deeper meanings behind "god's word" and all that. He's no longer Mormon either, and has gone through a bunch of different religious experiences to try to find something he likes. I'm really not sure where he is now, but he's definitely not of any "standard" religion.

My first younger sister still believes, but is not a church-goer...

My youngest sister is right on the edge of thinking that the whole thing is a bunch of crap.

My mom is the only one who still whole-heartedly believes. Oddly enough, she's got the lowest IQ in the family too... :-/

And my mom is the only person I've had trouble with. She once told me that if I didn't stop telling everyone I was an atheist, and find some religion, my wife would leave me. Hmmm...

[EagleEye]

You are all going to Hell. Which is, of course, THE place to be. :D

M.

Hehe... for me to GO there, it has to exist first...

[EagleEye]

When I hit puberty, between trying to get with girls, I started questioning the whole scam of religion. It took me till my early 20's to fully reject the whole concept of religion.

Isn't it interesting that once you start having the sex drive kick in, you start questioning religion? I think it's a happy coincidence, but the religious nuts out there use the sex drive, the temptation, etc, as a way to say "see? Satan is tempting you! You're only questioning your faith because of satan!"

Sorry... but no. It's biology...

[kittynh]

well yeah, if you are an atheist your wife will leave you. It's the reason the divorce rate in the US is over 50%.

Probably Marie Osmond is an atheist, why she is having divorce number 2. I shouldn't pick on her, but I remember before her first marriage she gave a little "lecture" on tv about how in HER church marriage is FOREVER.

[EagleEye]

Yeah, the odd thing was in both cases (my dad and my brother), it was their overly-religious wives who left them... and also caused most of the problems in the relationships. :)

[fishkr]

From what I know of Mormonism it amazes me that anyone who's old enough to have gotten over Santa Claus would waste their time on it. Feel ashamed for thinking you should feel ashamed.

[This Guy]

Ya know, this is what actually prompted me to post this thread. I was thinking about an old ex-girlfriend of mine from when I was 16... I remembered going to her baptism when she joined the Mormon church, and how proud I was of her.

I recently got in touch with her (like 2 years ago), and she told me how much she hated the Mormon church and how she was just "christian" now, etc... The other night I was thinking about the whole baptism thing and I felt ashamed for having pushed her towards it.

This is one reason I'll never push anyone to accept an atheist view.

I'll defend my view on the god question, and suggest sources of information that might help them determine the truth, to their satisfaction, but I will never say they should become atheist. And the sources I offer will be both atheist and Christian Apologetic sources, so they can compare both sides of the issue and make an informed decision on their own.

While I have studied the issue enough to convince myself that there is no god, or that if there is one, he's not the one described in the bible, or any other Holy book, I feel that others need to make their own mind up after they study the relevant facts.

Of course in this forum I'll try to offer a good argument for my views/against opposing views, when appropriate (or when I feel like it;))

[Charlie Monoxide]

Isn't it interesting that once you start having the sex drive kick in, you start questioning religion? I think it's a happy coincidence, but the religious nuts out there use the sex drive, the temptation, etc, as a way to say "see? Satan is tempting you! You're only questioning your faith because of satan!"

Sorry... but no. It's biology...I only believe in Satan in terms of the "Church Lady" (Dana Carrey on SNL) ....

Charlie (listen to Satanist on POI) Monoxide

[hipparchia]

I was raised and baptized an Orthodox christian. Then, I decided to try wicca and had a several years' infatuation with all things woo.

I am not ashamed, since this happened in my teen years and I consider that a time of incompetence.

I do feel a pang of shame when someone older than me still clings to woo or a warm fuzzy "I wanna heaven to care for me" religion.

I also feel proud I left woo and left religion.