What is sound? Split from: Are the real psychics hidden from us?

[maatorc]

its a bit like if a tree falls in the wood.....
of course it makes a sound. :)

It makes a 'sound' only if it is 'heard'.

[Abe_the_Man]

It makes a 'sound' only if it is 'heard'.

What you define is merely audible sound. Sound is actually vibration and vibrations exist even if they are out of our range of hearing or feeling them.

Sound -noun
1. the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.
2. mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 ft. (331 m) per second at sea level.
3. the particular auditory effect produced by a given cause: the sound of music.
4. any auditory effect; any audible vibrational disturbance: all kinds of sounds.
5. a noise, vocal utterance, musical tone, or the like: the sounds from the next room.
6. a distinctive, characteristic, or recognizable musical style, as from a particular performer, orchestra, or type of arrangement: the big-band sound.

[maatorc]

What you define is merely audible sound. Sound is actually vibration and vibrations exist even if they are out of our range of hearing or feeling them.

There is no such thing as 'inaudible' 'sound'.
Sound is a conscious sense perception of our nervous system.
The vibrations are the condition in nature which we interpret as 'sound' if they register on our senses.
When we do not 'hear', the vibrations of the condition in nature are still there as the thing in itself, but they are not 'sound'.

[Abe_the_Man]

There is no such thing as 'inaudible' 'sound'.
Sound is a conscious sense perception of our nervous system.
The vibrations are the condition in nature which we interpret as 'sound' if they register on our senses.
When we do not 'hear', the vibrations of the condition in nature are still there as the thing in itself, but they are not 'sound'.

It makes a 'sound' only if it is 'heard'.

Audible sounds are sounds within our range of hearing. Inaudible sounds are those sounds outside of our range of hearing. Take for instance a dog whistle. It makes a sound outside the range of human hearing but is quite distinctly audible for dogs. Just because we can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't a sound.

[maatorc]

Audible sounds are sounds within our range of hearing. Inaudible sounds are those sounds outside of our range of hearing. Take for instance a dog whistle. It makes a sound outside the range of human hearing but is quite distinctly audible for dogs. Just because we can't hear it doesn't mean it isn't a sound.

It is 'sound' to the dog because it 'hears' it.
We cannot 'hear' it: It is not 'sound' to us, even though we have the knowledge that the inaudible vibrations of the condition in nature exist.

[That_guy]

If I set up a radio transmitter in the middle of a desert, and there are no receivers in range, do the radio waves no longer exist?

[Dancing David]

It makes a 'sound' only if it is 'heard'.
Yes sound is a perception, noise is a pressure wave in air or fluid.

[Dancing David]

If I set up a radio transmitter in the middle of a desert, and there are no receivers in range, do the radio waves no longer exist?

The EM waves would be noise, sound relates to perception. Just as a table exists but is not 'felt' unless a sentient being percieves contact with it.

[That_guy]

The EM waves would be noise, sound relates to perception. Just as a table exists but is not 'felt' unless a sentient being percieves contact with it.

Hearing relates to perception. Sound is what you hear. Noise and sound can be used interchangeably, with the subtle distinction that noise generally refers to some unpleasant sound.

This isn't a debate about whether it's perceptible, but whether it exists; regardless of whether or not there is an ear to receive the sound wave, the sound wave still exists.

[Dancing David]

See here is the deal, in psychology sound it what is heard. So while the conventional use may vary, in science a sound is a perception. Regardless of what the common nomenclature says.

:)

[That_guy]

Actually, in science, sound is mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium. Hearing is the perception of a sound. Regardless of what you may want to interpret it as.

:)

[Jimbo07]

So... is the question:

Which English words describe a perception and which describe physical phenomena?

:boggled:

ETA: That guy, in signal analysis, noise is the garbage (variations in some parameter) from which you want to separate your signal.

Which science are we using "sound" from? Psychology, DD? ;)

[slingblade]

I wish this was all I had to worry about.

[That_guy]

Semantic distinctions don't matter much for this question. If a tree falls in a forest, and no one is around to hear it, a sound wave is still generated.

(I knew about the alternate meaning for noise, as well; I just used the one that most pertained to the discussion.)

[Jimbo07]

I have more than enough worries. This is a pleasant distraction... ;)

[cyborg]

Which English words describe a perception and which describe physical phenomena?

I would have to go with "sound" for the perception and "longitudinal pressure wave" for the phenomena.

[That_guy]

*loosens cyborg's leg bolts*

That'll show ya.

*runs away*

[Abe_the_Man]

I would have to go with "sound" for the perception and "longitudinal pressure wave" for the phenomena.

So the question then is if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a longitudinal pressure wave?

[Jimbo07]

So the question then is if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a longitudinal pressure wave?

It depends...

Is a microphone measurement equivalent to the ear in collapsing the tree's wave function?

:D

[JoeEllison]

I think we should all agree with maatorc.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Attempting to answer a koan, which by definition is a paradoxical statement, is silly.


eta: more importantly, if a tree falls in the woods and lands on a mime, does anyone really care?

[slingblade]

Put a recorder in the woods to capture the sound of any random tree falling.

The recorder can't "hear," because it has no sensory apparatus to process the sound. It simply records vibrations in the air. Later, when you pick up the recorder and play it back, you will also hear the sound.

That's because sound exists whether or not a living being is there to process the vibrations.

[Dancing David]

Actually, in science, sound is mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium. Hearing is the perception of a sound. Regardless of what you may want to interpret it as.

:)

depends on the science, which psychology , as practiced by some is.

So two different fields use two different jargons for sound.

That would be a 'noise' in psycholoy, just as EM waves can be light, but they are only sight/vision when they are sensed and percieved.


:)

[Dancing David]

*loosens cyborg's leg bolts*

That'll show ya.

*runs away*

If a cyborg falls in the forest do they yell?