Athiests & Agnostics - if you believed in God ... Pt. 1

[A Christian Sceptic]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

[Matt the Poet]

Gilb answer: a heavily armed Navajo lesbian in a wheelchair

Seriously…no, this can’t be answered seriously. This isn’t just asking ‘when did you stop beating your wife?’, it’s asking 'as a non-wifebeater, when did you stop beating your wife?’

Any answer I could give to the first question would require exactly as much pointless speculation as any other answer. Yet another analagous question would be ‘If you had a second head, how big would it’s nose be?’

The second is meaningless. Atheists or agnostics who ‘wish there was a god’ are just theists in denial. The assertion of some sort of personal deity with defineable properties is wishful thinking in itself.

[quarky]

a pre-existing singularity, without volume.

[joobz]

Matt has answered this question as completely as it can be answered.

Remember that man made god in his own image, not the other way around.

[That_guy]

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I'll go for this one, but only because I really do wish there was a god. My ideal god would grant my every wish. Hmm... that's about it. I guess I really just want a genie.

Le sigh.

[Irony]

If I believed in God, he would probably be some sort of non-specific entity who confirmed all my prejudices and yet somehow, despite being all-powerful, couldn't be bothered to do anything about the state of the world because of some sort of illogical non-reason like the always ill-defined free-will.

[madurobob]

Gilb answer: a heavily armed Navajo lesbian in a wheelchair

I believe the One True Lesbian Navajo Warrior faith would, in fact, interpret this as a chariot, not a wheelchair. Still, thanks for the visual.

[That_guy]

The second is meaningless. Atheists or agnostics who ‘wish there was a god’ are just theists in denial. The assertion of some sort of personal deity with defineable properties is wishful thinking in itself.

I have to disagree. Just because I really wish there was an all-powerful being looking out for the well-being of the universe doesn't mean I believe in it. I deny the existence of the supernatural because I have seen no evidence of it, not because I don't like the concept.

[Gib]

Question one is meaningless.
Question two is useless. But I'll answer the useless one.
He'd have my personality and values, but infinite power and knowledge.
Why ? Because then he'd treat people like me and my friends and family very very very well. And, he'd treat most other people very very well. The worst of humanity, he'd keep away from everyone else, still treat them OK, but make them watch how much better everyone else has it.

[crackers]

"If you believed in God what would God be like and why." - I don't understand the question. Are we playing "Design-A-God" or "Pimp-My-God"?

If I believed in God, God would be like whatever style of God I happened to believe in - if I believed in the Hindu god, it would be like it (them? aren't there more than one?) if I believed in the Jewish god, it would be like that one; if I believed in the Muslim god, it would be like that one...unless I made up my own god, but if I made it up, I would know I made it up so how could I believe in it?

[Furi]

if i had to answer.

A Physical Constant.

But really as I see no reason why I would want to wish for a god, it is a pointless question.

If however you wish to know which gods as depicted by various religions throughout history and I could invent a fantasy world where such beings exist, I'd probably have to plump for Localised pantheons of Gods, Greek, Viking, Celtic, as they seemed good for a giggle meddlesome and tricksy, plus the religious texts would be good to read, and I could probably get my Gemmelesque fantasy fix from the Non Fiction section, Some sort of Dan Simmons Ilium world set just over bifrost

[skeptical]

One that doesn't interact in the Universe, is purposely hidden and if it "wants" anything, it wants rational people and not blind belief. In short, a hidden God that wants people that don't believe in it because there is no good evidence to do so.

[A Christian Sceptic]

Gilb answer: a heavily armed Navajo lesbian in a wheelchair

That's an interesting one. Except - if she had heavy arms how could she hug you?

[bokonon]

I've been an atheist for as long as I can remember, though I can remember a time when I believed in Santa Claus, and I'm sure that I probably believed in God too, then.

If I believed in God, it would be some amorphous "intelligent universe," where everything (i.e., the deep-space intersection of two rays of starlight) was a fleck of a thought in some cosmic consciousness. The "why" is just that, seeing the way the universe operates, I can't imagine any grand director who is guiding events in accordance with some heavenly purpose. The cosmos as a whole encompasses everything that has happened, can happen, will happen, so it makes more sense to call that "god" than any other model I've seen.

If I wished there was a god, he'd be just and fair, and would actually help people who needed help, and thwart people who needed thwarting. He wouldn't blast people with tornadoes or ice storms or earthquakes, wouldn't keep them fertile past their ability to raise responsible descendants, wouldn't afflict them with disease and hunger. He'd create a universe in which life didn't have to kill to survive; people would get all the nutrients they need from the air and the sun, or hell, from "zero point" energy. People wouldn't die before their time; everyone would live exactly (mumble mumble) years, and be vibrant and healthy 'til the end. I guess I'm really saying that, if I wished God was real, I'd just wish for one that made a better universe than the one we have, and looked after things a little better.

[This Guy]

OK, I'll play. But first, understand this is a pretty much off the cuff reply. Haven't spent any time deliberating this, so it's all subject to change on further consideration. Second, it's a game of make believe, so my answer really doesn't mean anything anyway ;)

He'd actually be a loving God, and would make his existence known to all, in no uncertain terms. There would be no doubt that he existed.

I think that IF I wished for a God, that God would be at least able to prevent violent, untimely deaths. He would ensure we all died natural deaths, at ripe old ages.

He would arrange things so that there would be no need for the greed and other issues that cause wars and depravities. He would ensure that we all "got along", but not actually control our thoughts or desires directly. He'd just make sure our problems were OUR problems, and not problems that required wars or senseless bloodshed..

He wouldn't give us everything we needed, or erase all our problems. I believe we need a certain amount of trials and tribulations, so to speak, to advance our knowledge and understanding, and for a sense of self worth.

That's the biggies, I think.

Do I win? ;)

[A Christian Sceptic]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?

[JoeEllison]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?

I used to read Thor comic books... does that count?

Are you starting to understand that your questions are kind of meaningless?

[Freethinker]

The only god that could possibly exist is the non-participatory god of deists. This is a god we know nothing about, and can only postulate his existence based on our lack of knowledge. We can also never know that such a god exists, so it does no good to worship or even be concerned with what he wants us to do.

[Darth Rotor]

Athiests & Agnostics - if you believed in God
. . . they would not be Atheists and Agnostics, now would they?

DR

[Jekyll]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?

I think it's more confusion with your question.

For me to start to believe in a God, something has to change my mind and my beliefs. I don't know how they would be changed, so I can't answer your question.

It's a lot like asking: if you were schizophrenic, who's voices(if any) would you hear?

Obviously the answer is going to depend on how it manifests itself....

[joobz]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?
It's not that. I think people are saying they never considered it as something real.

have you ever thought what it would be like to be at Hoggwart's?
HAve you ever thought what it would be like to in the Justice leaguge?
What superpowers would you have?
If you could meet any storybook character, who would it be?

[A Christian Sceptic]

I used to read Thor comic books... does that count?

Are you starting to understand that your questions are kind of meaningless?

Some people responded to the questions so the questions couldn't have been meaningless. I guess I figured if the question was meaningless to people they wouldn't respond.

[alfaniner]

I may not be a god, but I played on on TV. Well, on PC actually.

Black & White. I decided not to go the expected teenager-play route which assumes you would get great pleasure from sacrificing the villagers and destroying buildings (with full intent to play that way the second time around!) On about the third land and several hours into the game, the help sprite popped up and said "My, you really are a good and gentle god, aren't you?" while practically rolling his eyes.

[A Christian Sceptic]

It's not that. I think people are saying they never considered it as something real.

have you ever thought what it would be like to be at Hoggwart's?
HAve you ever thought what it would be like to in the Justice leaguge?
What superpowers would you have?
If you could meet any storybook character, who would it be?

I've thought about all these things - or similar things. It's called imagination.

[Marquis de Carabas]

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?
If I believed in God, it would be because evidence and logical argument had convinced me it existed. Therefore, it would have whatever properties it had, just like all the other stuff I believe in.

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?
Stacked and easy.

[Matt the Poet]

I have to disagree. Just because I really wish there was an all-powerful being looking out for the well-being of the universe doesn't mean I believe in it. I deny the existence of the supernatural because I have seen no evidence of it, not because I don't like the concept.

Ah, but you can’t like the idea that much, otherwise you’d believe in it. After all, what’s stopping you? It’s just a leap of faith, brother…

However, it sounds like you (like me) like it much much less than the idea of a cosmos whose processes are entirely comprehensible by (suitably tool-enhanced) human perception and reasoning.

[joobz]

I've thought about all these things - or similar things. It's called imagination.
exactly. Also known as make believe.
When you considered those questions, did it feel similar to your belief in god or was it just a game?


I think you'll find, those who are entertaining your question are doing it in the same way they would entertain the question of "What would be your ideal actor to play Dumbledore's gay evil lover?"

[ravdin]

I wish there was an omniscient surveillance system that kept watch over all of us at all times. I wish that every indiscretion and moment of private pleasure was duly recorded. I wish there was a celestial dictator who will reward our devotion to him in this lifetime by allowing us to worship and glorify him for all eternity. I wish there could never be any possibility of escape.

There's your answer- not only do I not believe such a god could exist, I'm glad he doesn't exist.

[A Christian Sceptic]

exactly. Also known as make believe.
When you considered those questions, did it feel similar to your belief in god or was it just a game?

I also imagined what it would be like to remodel my house, and I imagine what it would be like to have more money. Imagination isn't just make-believe (well - ok - you got me - in the case of money it is!).


I think you'll find, those who are entertaining your question are doing it in the same way they would entertain the question of "What would be your ideal actor to play Dumbledore's gay evil lover?"

Since this was directed towards people who already have their beliefs in place as Athiests or Agnostics I expect as much and I appreciate everyones responses.

[Matt the Poet]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?

It would depend what you mean by…well, nearly all of the words in that sentence, really, but let’s start with the two biggies of ‘thought about’ and ‘God’

Have I read about and considered notions of faith, and the ideas of different faiths? Yes. Didn’t convince me of anything except the credulousness of humankind

Have I read about and considered ontological/metaphysical ideas of ‘Being’ etc.?
Yes. They are often interesting points of view, and throw up many deep questions about the nature of existence. It’s noticeable that the only ones with any intellectual honesty and rigour shy well away of talking about god, gods or any kind of ‘guiding consciousness’ in the sense that I suspect you mean here.

Have I experienced a sense of ‘the ineffable’ or ‘the sublime’ ?
Yes. But as far as I know, that’s just something my temporal lobe does when it’s not planning a gazelle hunt. I find it useful for my art but I’ve never considered it to mean anything beyond itself.

Have I thought about the possible properties of some sort of personal god?
Of course not, any more than I’ve thought about the possible mitochondrial DNA sequence of fairies.

[Foster Zygote]

Is it all right if I just wait for Part 2 to see where these questions are meant to be leading us?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Is it all right if I just wait for Part 2 to see where these questions are meant to be leading us?
To water we shall not drink, possibly due to it being drawn from a poisoned well.

[Foster Zygote]

"What would be your ideal actor to play Dumbledore's gay evil lover?"

That's easy: Paul Lynde.

[A Christian Sceptic]

Is it all right if I just wait for Part 2 to see where these questions are meant to be leading us?

Sure - but I'm making this up as I go. I may just skip to Part 3. :)

[That_guy]

Ah, but you can’t like the idea that much, otherwise you’d believe in it. After all, what’s stopping you? It’s just a leap of faith, brother…


It's one thing to wish, another to believe. I wish Santa Claus really was going to bring presents for my children this year, but believing it won't make it happen. Same with gods; the evidence against them is massive, so I have no reason to believe other than "I wanna." That's just not good enough for me.


However, it sounds like you (like me) like it much much less than the idea of a cosmos whose processes are entirely comprehensible by (suitably tool-enhanced) human perception and reasoning.

I accept the universe as it is, and I find it fascinating, but that doesn't mean it's my ideal; it's just the only one I've got.

[A Christian Sceptic]

It's one thing to wish, another to believe. I wish Santa Claus really was going to bring presents for my children this year, but believing it won't make it happen.

OK - this is way off topic and in no way related to anything being discussed, and just for fun. (Nothing theological should be assumed) But That_guy - this could be true if you change what you believe Santa Claus is. Look at it as an office that many people can hold and by essence become - like the President of the United States, but a bit more honest and better dressed and open to eveyone who wants to step into that role. :)

The band Alabama put it best in their song Santa Clause (I Still Believe In You) .

http://music.yahoo.com/Alabama/Santa-Claus-I-Still-Believe-In-You--Alabama/lyrics/1786483

[Matt the Poet]

It's one thing to wish, another to believe. I wish Santa Claus really was going to bring presents for my children this year, but believing it won't make it happen. Same with gods; the evidence against them is massive, so I have no reason to believe other than "I wanna." That's just not good enough for me.

Fair enough, I guess. Although I don't personally see any difference between 'faith' and 'I wanna' except the inexplicable social acceptibility of the former.

[That_guy]

OK - this is way off topic and in no way related to anything being discussed, and just for fun. (Nothing theological should be assumed) But That_guy - this could be true if you change what you believe Santa Claus is. Look at it as an office that many people can hold and by essence become - like the President of the United States, but a bit more honest and better dressed and open to eveyone who wants to step into that role. :)


That's true. I could say I believe in Santa Claus as long as I believe Santa Claus is something other than Santa Claus. Sure.

Of course, then the statement loses all meaning.

[Cainkane1]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

God in my imagination would appear often and help in a definite way. Cure diseases. Help with crops and give us an alternative to oil. He'd answer questions and when holy books were written theyd be written in Heaven and distributed to us via angels in the various languages. He would prevent droughts and visibly help people in distress. ETC.

[That_guy]

Fair enough, I guess. Although I don't personally see any difference between 'faith' and 'I wanna' except the inexplicable social acceptibility of the former.

There really isn't a difference between the two, but 'faith' sounds more mature. ;-p

[articulett]

That's easy: Paul Lynde.

Necrophilia is an inappropriate subject for this thread.

Christian Sceptic... If you your god only existed in your imagination like Zeus and all the gods you don't believe in, would you want to know?

And you can discuss how you keep your "Christianity" for your skeptical eye over here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=99188&page=35

Because as much as you'd like to probe our thoughts... lots of us are interested as to what sort of reasoning allows one to call himself a skeptic and yet believe in things for which there isn't the slightest evidence... especially since skeptics know or should know how easy it is too fool people in such areas. How can a skeptic believe in the supernatural? What is your source? What makes you believe in one invisible entity over another (Zeus, thetans, etc.) How can you dismiss some but not yours?

[joobz]

I also imagined what it would be like to remodel my house, and I imagine what it would be like to have more money. Imagination isn't just make-believe (well - ok - you got me - in the case of money it is!).
actually, it is just make believe. If you want something more from it, you need to do something.



Since this was directed towards people who already have their beliefs in place as Athiests or Agnostics I expect as much and I appreciate everyones responses.
Fair enough.

[A Christian Sceptic]

That's true. I could say I believe in Santa Claus as long as I believe Santa Claus is something other than Santa Claus. Sure.

Of course, then the statement loses all meaning.

Or it meant you misunderstood what he was and so believed in the wrong thing. But now this discussion is getting into the meaning of Santa. And I'm sure we've all got opinions on that!

[drkitten]

There really isn't a difference between the two, but 'faith' sounds more mature.

No, there's a big difference between "faith" and "I wanna." Lots of people -- unhappy people, largely -- have "faith" in things that they don't want, but that they nevertheless believe in without evidence.

This can be anything from "faith" that you are damned for being a sinner to "faith" that the government is secretly out to get you or "faith" that bad things will happen to you for some reason.

That's part of the problem with religion in general. A lot of Christians come on here and try to tell me how happy their "faith" makes them , and indeed it may well make them "happy" to believe in fairies. I also know a lot of people whose Christianity makes them very unhappy, for whatever reason. Indeed, the Bible is even explicit on this. "Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."

[A Christian Sceptic]

Christian Sceptic... If you your god only existed in your imagination like Zeus and all the gods you don't believe in, would you want to know?

And you can discuss how you keep your "Christianity" for your skeptical eye over here:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=99188&page=35



I posted over there. Would it be appropriate to copy and paste here too?

[articulett]

I posted over there. Would it be appropriate to copy and paste here too?

Cool. Nah... you can keep this thread for probing of nonbelievers while we poke and prod your belief on the other thread.

[That_guy]

No, there's a big difference between "faith" and "I wanna." Lots of people -- unhappy people, largely -- have "faith" in things that they don't want, but that they nevertheless believe in without evidence.

This can be anything from "faith" that you are damned for being a sinner to "faith" that the government is secretly out to get you or "faith" that bad things will happen to you for some reason.

That's part of the problem with religion in general. A lot of Christians come on here and try to tell me how happy their "faith" makes them , and indeed it may well make them "happy" to believe in fairies. I also know a lot of people whose Christianity makes them very unhappy, for whatever reason. Indeed, the Bible is even explicit on this. "Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."

You're quite correct. Faith can be one of three things:

1) Wishful thinking (i.e. "I believe because I want to believe.")

or

2) A mental disorder (Belief based on misinterpretation of events)

or

3) Willful ignorance (i.e. "I believe because it's true and there's nothing you can say to change my mind!")

I was mainly referring to my own situation when I equated faith with "I wanna."

[Tiktaalik]

My mother used to say she believed in a "Holy Glue", some sort of indescribable something that connected everything in the universe in some indefiniable way.

I don't believe in the Holy Glue, either.

[Matt the Poet]

You're quite correct. Faith can be one of three things:

1) Wishful thinking (i.e. "I believe because I want to believe.")

or

2) A mental disorder (Belief based on misinterpretation of events)

or

3) Willful ignorance (i.e. "I believe because it's true and there's nothing you can say to change my mind!")

I was mainly referring to my own situation when I equated faith with "I wanna."

I'd argue 2) isn't faith until the correct interpretation of events is made clear to the believer. At which point the only reason for them to continue believing in their misinterpreted version is because they wanna.

3) could only be held by someone who had an active, emotional interest in believing. In other words, they wanna.

In other words, they both ultimately fold up into 1.

Even people whose faith causes them pain and anxiety want to believe - they're just trapped in some terrible loop where the pain and anxiety is part of bringing them what they want, no?

If I believed that Santa will eventually (at some unspecified time) come and bring me presents, but only if I set fire to my own head, am I not still indulging in wishful thinking? Or, at least, up until the point where I have more urgent medical things to concentrate on...

[billydkid]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?I have the same question for people who are believers. I have never heard any description of "God" than remotely makes any sense.

[NeilC]

I'd want justice - preferably earthly but I guess cosmic will do.
I'd want a happy afterlife so I don't need to worry so much about cocking this one up.
I don't want to have do any bowing or scraping or forsaking or sacrificing or huring other people for it.

In fact why both with all that. I'll just have a god who waves a finger and makes the world peaceful and happy where nobody needs to work unless they want to, no disease etc etc. Might at well get down to it now rather than ponce about with some rules that might have unintended consequences.

[drkitten]

In other words, they both ultimately fold up into 1.

Even people whose faith causes them pain and anxiety want to believe - they're just trapped in some terrible loop where the pain and anxiety is part of bringing them what they want, no?

Not in the slightest. I've never met a single person who "wants" nightmares in any meaningful sense of the word, but everyone I know has had them. Just as people can have irrational desires, so can they have irrational fears and hurts.

You don't have to believe that Santa will come and bring you presents in order to set fire to your own head. It can suffice to beleve that only setting fire to your own head will keep the evil clowns at bay.

[Thurkon]

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?


What difference does it make what I want? What I want has nothing to do with reality, or truth. Whether or not God exists has nothing to do with my personal desires. What I seek is truth, and sometimes that doesn't agree with what I desire.

That's the tough reality of existence.

Ask yourself this: If you could choose your parent, would you choose one that was never around to help you grow up and protect you from danger? Would you choose one that left a cryptic diary behind claiming he was your father and that he loved you, but was never around to show it or even prove he was really your father to begin with?

[supercorgi]

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

Me, because I've always fancied the idea of having superpowers.

[danielk]

Hmmm ... interesting responses. Are some of you saying you've never even thought about a God?
Thought about? Sure. But I have been an atheist all my life. The concept of a personal god is completely alien to my world view. The pantheistic idea of god as the universe itself does make a bit more sense, but in my view that's just playing semantics. I think such a god would be indistinguishable from no god at all.

I don't really understand why people would wish for a god to exist. The idea has consequences after all. It's opening a can of worms and not getting you any farther. In fact, isn't that what theologians do all day: thinking hard about the consequences of the god idea? Bless them.

[ponderingturtle]

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I can not conceive of a god that is not either pointless or evil, and believing in powerful evil or pointless beings seems rather a silly past time.

[ponderingturtle]

I believe the One True Lesbian Navajo Warrior faith would, in fact, interpret this as a chariot, not a wheelchair. Still, thanks for the visual.

Cool, Heresy already. I smell a brewing schism and possibly a war.

[cyborg]

It would look like nothing else.

[ponderingturtle]

The only god that could possibly exist is the non-participatory god of deists. This is a god we know nothing about, and can only postulate his existence based on our lack of knowledge. We can also never know that such a god exists, so it does no good to worship or even be concerned with what he wants us to do.

I think certain Christian thoughts of god could exist. Specifically a psychotic all powerful individual who demands total devotion and love with out doing anything and punishes any one who questions it.

Sure that idea of god makes Stalin look like a kind grandfather but who said god was not an evil bastard?

[Crazycowbob]

There really isn't a difference between the two, but 'faith' sounds more mature. ;-p

I dissagree with you here... There's a pretty big difference between wishing something were true, and having faith that it's true.

I wish I had a million dollars in my bank account, but by no means do I have faith in it. If I believed I had a million dollars in the bank, I'd be shopping right now.

[That_guy]

I dissagree with you here... There's a pretty big difference between wishing something were true, and having faith that it's true.

I wish I had a million dollars in my bank account, but by no means do I have faith in it. If I believed I had a million dollars in the bank, I'd be shopping right now.

That was slightly out of context. The comparison was being made between believing in something because "I wanna," and having faith.

[Crazycowbob]

That was slightly out of context. The comparison was being made between believing in something because "I wanna," and having faith.


Ah, sorry, missinterpretted that. My response was more to the attitude like Matt the Poet had about "wishing god existed" is the same as being a "theist in denial".

[ponderingturtle]

I also imagined what it would be like to remodel my house, and I imagine what it would be like to have more money. Imagination isn't just make-believe (well - ok - you got me - in the case of money it is!).

So what is the sexual fetish that you find revolting that you really wish you had?

[Cello Man]

I don't really bother with wishful thinking about a god. I do, however, wish that the Force (i.e. Star Wars) was real.

[linusrichard]

This thread has confirmed my atheism a bit. Try as I might, I can't come up with a God that I could believe in. I guess I could just say that if I weren't an atheist, I'd probably be a Catholic, since that's my roots, and so my God would be whoever or whatever the Pope and the Bible tells me it is. But I don't know.

Logically speaking, of course, we know that
nP -> (P -> Q)

Therefore, any statement from me that begins with "If I believed in God" is logically "true." That's no fun, though.

[Bluefire]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?


Err... would depend on where the evidence was pointing. It's sort of like saying, just to take something existin as en example: "if you believed in cars, what would they look like" ... well, I have a fairly good, idea, but only because of the overwhelming experience with them.


If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

A prankster with a great sense of humor (seriously!)

[quarky]

you are god.

you get what you create.

its the commands we issue that deserve more scrutiny

the constant internal chatter, telling us what is what.

if i was god, things would be exactly this fuc#ed-up.

Sure, i should be able to imagine a better god, and achieve perfection...

perhaps i understand how eternally boring that path would be.

its good to imagine being the creator, imho.

[drkitten]

I also imagined what it would be like to remodel my house, and I imagine what it would be like to have more money. Imagination isn't just make-believe (well - ok - you got me - in the case of money it is!).


Yeah, but there's a big difference between imagining yourself remodelling your house and imagining God. The way I imagine remodelling my house has a huge effect on how it will actually turn out, since I get to design the remodelling. If God does exist, then it doesn't matter how I imagine Him, since He is what He is. If God doesn't exist, then it still doesn't matter how I imagine Him, because I'm not in a position to build-a-god.

A better analogy would be like asking someone "if you had identical twin sons, which one would be smarter?" The only sensible answer is "how the hell should I know?"

[articulett]

It can suffice to beleve that only setting fire to your own head will keep the evil clowns at bay.
Ah! So that's how you get rid of them!
Thanks for the tip.

[articulett]

Ask yourself this: If you could choose your parent, would you choose one that was never around to help you grow up and protect you from danger? Would you choose one that left a cryptic diary behind claiming he was your father and that he loved you, but was never around to show it or even prove he was really your father to begin with?

And that he wanted you to worship him and believe in him even though he was completely invisible and indistinguishable from a delusion? Oh--and he doesn't want you to bite from the "tree of knowledge"-- ever. If you do, you and your descendants suffer eternal agony in a hell created especially for such a purpose by that invisible loving daddy. Or something like that.

Oh, and he killed his favorite kid (who was really him) for YOU--yes--for YOU. -- so don't you dare be so bold as to doubt! Get cracking... your eternity is at stake... find the right infallible leader and the right religion and believe it the right way with the right zeal and convert others and complete the nebulous rubric-- hurry, hurry-- your Eternity is at stake! And you are sooooooo not worthy. :)

[Pope130]

To answer the first part of the original question as an agnostic; Since I believe in what the evidence indicates, then if I believed in a god, it's perceived characteristics would be what the evidence indicates.

To pick up on Bluefires' car analogy, your question is something like asking: "If you were to be hit by a car what color would it be?"

The second part of the question is a not directly answerable, since I don't want any gods.

Robert Klaus

[Matt the Poet]

Not in the slightest. I've never met a single person who "wants" nightmares in any meaningful sense of the word, but everyone I know has had them. Just as people can have irrational desires, so can they have irrational fears and hurts.

You don't have to believe that Santa will come and bring you presents in order to set fire to your own head. It can suffice to beleve that only setting fire to your own head will keep the evil clowns at bay.

I think we may end up spiralling around the same semantic plughole over this, so I'll concede that my forthright equation of wishing for a god with actual theism in the original response is perhaps a little weak

I still don't think it's meaningful to answer the question 'what would god be like, if you wanted one', though? Why not cut out this rather odd middleman and describe one's perfect living conditions directly?

Yeah, actually, that's a slightly less shonky argument, there. Sorry... :o

[drkitten]

Ah! So that's how you get rid of them!
Thanks for the tip.

No problem. Remember, now, "friends don't let friends set fire to their heads while drunk."

[Silentknight]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?
That seems like an honest question, so I'll give you an honest answer.

God would exist as an abstract idea from within the human consciousness that is projected into the external world. After all, ideas certainly exist, and they can have a powerful influence on the lives of people who hold them. God would be found, not sitting on a throne in the clouds, but in the workings of nature, in the laws of physics, and in the most noble (and savage) qualities of humankind. Of course, this is not the kind of god one would go off and pray to, and certainly not something that would require worship. If one were to selfishly envision a personal God with human traits, then one would have to take the bad with the good.


On the other hand, if there were a God in the more traditional sense, I think it would be cool if instead of just having a few prophets in ancient times, we all had the ability or potential to attain the miraculous powers associated with such figures. What if people could learn how to walk on water, control the weather, multiply food, miraculously cure diseases, and resurrect those who had died tragically?

[alfaniner]

I don't really bother with wishful thinking about a god. I do, however, wish that the Force (i.e. Star Wars) was real.

You mean like, the real Force, from Star Wars, and not the stupid "Midichlorian" Force, from The Phantom Menace, right?

[X]

I'm going to take a slightly different interpretation of your questions.


If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

Considering the following:
- my father is a failry devout Catholic,
- my mother a devout (if you can call the social crawling devout) member of the United Church of Canada, as well as a post-masters student in theology and divinity,
- I went to a Catholic school (connected to my fathers church) from grades 1 to 8,
- I went to weekly church at my mothers church.
Seeing the nature of my upbringing, it seems reasonable to assume that if I still believed in god (which I do not, let's make that clear), then in all likelihood the god I believed in would be the Christian interpretation of the Abrahamic god of Judaism.


If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

And for this one, I get to play with flights of fancy.
If I wished there were a god (which, again, I do not; let's not have any misinterpretations of my position, hmm?) then I would wish for a god who would clean up tyhe atmosphere and provide plentiful oil so that the glorious throaty roar of massive engines could once again rule the roads, as is their proper place.

[DoubtingStephen]

If I believed in God She would exist. This would differentiate Her from the thousands of imaginary deities created by the human imagination that do not exist.

She might choose to indicate Her existence by re-growing the amputated limbs of wounded war veterans, and opening the clouds to send thunderbolts completely disintegrating the next bumbling yet sinister world leader that conspires to start a war of imperialist aggression based on a pack of lies.

[crackers]

OK, I'll play. But first, understand this is a pretty much off the cuff reply. Haven't spent any time deliberating this, so it's all subject to change on further consideration. Second, it's a game of make believe, so my answer really doesn't mean anything anyway ;)

He'd actually be a loving God, and would make his existence known to all, in no uncertain terms. There would be no doubt that he existed.

I think that IF I wished for a God, that God would be at least able to prevent violent, untimely deaths. He would ensure we all died natural deaths, at ripe old ages.

He would arrange things so that there would be no need for the greed and other issues that cause wars and depravities. He would ensure that we all "got along", but not actually control our thoughts or desires directly. He'd just make sure our problems were OUR problems, and not problems that required wars or senseless bloodshed..

He wouldn't give us everything we needed, or erase all our problems. I believe we need a certain amount of trials and tribulations, so to speak, to advance our knowledge and understanding, and for a sense of self worth.

That's the biggies, I think.

Do I win? ;)


Bokonon's god is better than your god. ;)

[ponderingturtle]

You mean like, the real Force, from Star Wars, and not the stupid "Midichlorian" Force, from The Phantom Menace, right?

Either way it is all about the dark side. To quote Yoda "The dark side is faster, easier and get laid you can"

[Hokulele]

I would want a god who is very small and weak, quiet, odorless, and above all . . .


completely powerless.

In other words, I would want a god who would have absolutely no influence on the universe as we know it. Kind of like having no god at all.

Next question?

[danielk]

But now this discussion is getting into the meaning of Santa. And I'm sure we've all got opinions on that!
You betcha. Down with parentism (http://cectic.com/080.html), I say!

[articulett]

Bokonon's god is better than your god. ;)

I like DoubtingStephens god better. She could surely smite Bokonon's god if she was feeling surly.

[Leicontis]

I consider myself a "Hopeful Agnostic" - basically, I know that there's no evidence for or against the existence of an afterlife or deity (absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence), but I hope their is, and try to believe in the kind of universe that makes sence and feels good.

As such, the deity I try (and often fail) to believe in is a non-interventionist God. This God is at least effectively omnipotent and omniscient. However, due to the fact that being an omnipotent/omniscient being would be very boring, this God created the universe, setting up its physical laws and starting things off (Big Bang), with the aim of eventually producing one or more sentient species. Essentially, we are God's reality show. This God in some way(s) (I've thought of several possible ways) observes the universe and the life in it as a form of entertainment, intentionally not predicting what we'll do next so as to allow us free will. Thus, we are able to surprise God. Any interventions by such a God would be extremely subtle, such as moments of inspiration and/or mood alterations, or selectively chosen results of random events.

What are the big things that make life interesting? Challenges, surprises, and interaction with others (sort of a subset of the other two). Think about what it would be like to exist as a lone, omnipotent/omniscient entity: You're alone, so you cannot interact except with yourself. You know everything, so nothing surprises you. Omnipotence means nothing is a challenge except you. The only way to entertain yourself would be to create one or more entities that are outside yourself, and that you specifically refrain/prevent yourself from predicting.

I know this God is created in our image - given the nature of the human mind, that seems rather difficult to avoid...

[scotth]

Answering the OP without reading (contaminating my mind with) the other answers.....

Q1 - If I believed in a god, it would be because there was evidence for one. I guess it would be however the evidence said it was. If there really is a god today, it is the kind of god that enjoys acting just like one that doesn't exist.

Q2 - Reasonable, kind, and willing to share its knowledge of the universe. Maybe even one willing to pitch in a hand once in a while solving big problems, like say, global warming. And one willing to make a personal appearance once in a while and say something like, hey morons, cut it out.

[Furi]

if we could all carry a little personal god around with us, we could amuse ourselves by having them duke it out to alleviate the boredom, would also stop all religious bickering, you could just settle down for a good battle between yourselves

http://www.pokebeach.com/news/0106/mewex.jpg

we have to be on our guard against cheaters though

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n77/Niloc14/Jesus/PokemonJesus.jpg

=^..^=
(A 6! blow it out your ear Pikachu)

[Dogdoctor]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I am agnostic so not offended by these questions. If I believed in a god he/she/it would be a powerful entity who isn't all powerful or all knowing , who sits back and makes minor little changes in our world of chaos and suffering. He doesn't fix much because he wants us to be self regulating and the only way for that to happen is for us to evolve into that creature. Why? .....because it that is the only way I can imagine a god with the world the way it is.
If I got to choose a god then I would choose one that would keep me and the rest of the world from suffering and also was everyones best friend.

[-Fran-]

Some people responded to the questions so the questions couldn't have been meaningless. I guess I figured if the question was meaningless to people they wouldn't respond.

People do meaningless things for no particular reason all the time, just for fun, or whatever... Getting a response for a certain action does not prove that the action is meaningfull. A person can come here and write a post that consists of nothing else than:

Xggn ---

And someone would probably still respond to it. Trolls are constantly getting lots of responses here, no matter how meaningless their posts are. So I guess another criteria must be used to conclude if a post is meaningfull or not.

----

I agree that the first question is meaningless, and the second is meaningless to me personally, since I have no wish for some sort of god.

I'm surprised though that no one has answered that if they wish there was a god, that they would want to be the god? :D Or did I miss it?

Correction:
Some of you did wish you were the god :) Sloppy reading on my part!

[quarky]

speaking of god:

how come jesus isn't referred to as the "son of Mary"?
Then Mary could be god, instead of the god-dude.
She was evidently caring, and kind. She probably breast fed her baby.
He, otoh, was sort of a dick.

[pchams]

Gods are for fools.

ETA: There are no christian skeptics.
Anyone who believes in a magical being without evidence is not skeptical, no matter what some of the religious apologists on this board would have you believe.

[sackett]

Everybody brought up in an Abrahamic-oriented society (i.e., among Jews, Christians, or Moslems) knows perfectly well what God is like, whether you believe in Him or not:

An overpowering great big man up in the sky with fierce eyebrows and a huge white beard! He wants you and you and particularly YOU, the atheist hiding over there, to cringe, wail, grovel, and pray! To HIM, and only to HIM!

And then die! die! and go to the reward He decrees, no arguments: Heaven for a tiny minority, the ones who cringed, etc. lower and more basely than the others. All the rest of you will go to HELL! and be tortured unspeakably forever, worse and worse all the time! So what if your sins (and only He defines a sin, and keeps some of them secret just because He likes to) were puny and finite? Great big overpowering guys up in the sky care nothing for that! Suck it up, sinnerz! Yahweh Yahweh YAHWEH!!!!

I don't care about Matt and his sweet reason. Christian Sceptic and me, we know the true truth.

[Beerina]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

The only ethical, sentient creator (I won't limit it by the word "god") I could believe in (i.e. not have 100% disdain for) are:

- A creator who had good intentions, but, once the universe turned out to allow the soddomizing deaths of infants, had difficulty stopping it. This necessitates a lack of omniscience, and a lack of omnipotence (beyond mere non-omniscience.)

- A creator who had the permission of everybody who appears in this world. Full, informed permission.

This would necessitate the pre-existence of said people, although I suppose a pedant could suggest an all-knowing god would know people who, once created, would post-facto approve what was done. I believe we have enough evidence to suggest many people would find what was done to them via their creation to be unethical. They wouldn't reverse it, as that would lead to their non-existence. But that does not justify it to begin with.

In both these cases, "creator" could be a very finite individual, similar to ourselves, if not slightly stupider.

By the way, any god-like Power from Vernor Vinge's famous A Fire Upon The Deep (http://www.amazon.com/Fire-Upon-Deep-Zones-Thought/dp/0812515285) could effortlessly whip up a hundred trillion simulations of Earth and all the people in it, including "devices like us". I find it hard to believe a creature like Yahweh would be less capable, even ignoring omnipotence and omniscience.

Vinge even had a name for god-like creatures like Yahweh: Class 2 Perversion

[Beerina]

I believe the One True Lesbian Navajo Warrior faith would, in fact, interpret this as a chariot, not a wheelchair. Still, thanks for the visual.

Peter Griffin Voice: Ye...yeah? Would this lesbian warrior goddess turn me into a gorgeous female and force me to serve her, and do vile, degrading things to her? Degrading to me, that is.

Is this thread about gods you could believe in given what you see around you, or gods you hope actually exist?

[Pardalis]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I don't know, that's why I'm agnostic. I can't wrap my mind around that concept.

[quarky]

being all powerful is no cake walk, evidently.
If I had a choice, I would lean towards poly-theism.
I like the idea of lots of gods. Spread the blame and the worship.
All powerful seems like a bad idea.

Still, it gives me a chuckle when people reject the idea of God because of how screwed up stuff is. Why can't god be an ********* Our president is. Seems somewhat analogous.

God isn't the problem.
Morality is.
Morality is always self-serving.
Morality allows the righteous stance.
It reminds me of racism.

The cause of racism is racial pride.
Its hard to hate without first having an innate sense of superiority.
Our various gods play into our hands, to promote our bias.

Your wrongness empowers my rightness.
Science runs the risk of falling into the same trap.

Love, otoh, is something else.
It needs to be invented soon, for survival's sake.

[Robin]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?
I made an honest attempt to answer, but failed. If I believed God existed I could not describe what He would be like.

The only meaningful adjective I could apply to God would be "incomprehensible"

[-Fran-]

Still, it gives me a chuckle when people reject the idea of God because of how screwed up stuff is. Why can't god be an ********* Our president is. Seems somewhat analogous.


I'm not sure.. but when I have seen arguments in that vein, it has usually been about rejecting the claim of an all-good, and all-loving god. The argument doesn't seem to say that we reject god only because the world is bad, but that if god exists the state of the world would show that he is indeed a first class A-hole :)

[ninjamessiah]

If I believed in God I'd start the First Muslim Zen Church of Christ and base it on the principle that Lucifer created the world's religions to separate cultures and cause war.

I used to postulate as a stoner in physics class in high school that God was simply gravity. It is a constant inescapable force in all things living and non living whose sole intent is to bring everything back together into singularity.

[fishkr]

Answering the OP without reading (contaminating my mind with) the other answers.....



Like you said:

In a perfect world (!) God would be an amalgam of R. Dawkins, Mila Jajovich and William S. Burroughs, with overtones of ground raw almonds and cherries, have good legs and a strong, clean finish. He/she should also be a competent spey caster, decent skier and love puppies, etc., etc.

[Lonewulf]

If I believed in God I'd start the First Muslim Zen Church of Christ and base it on the principle that Lucifer created the world's religions to separate cultures and cause war.

Why do you need to drag Lucifer down to that level? Satan's done nothing but good in the bible; he brought humanity wisdom and the ability to tell right from wrong. He offered Jesus help when he was suffering in the desert thanks to his sky-daddy. He told the truth whereas God lied (like about the fruit thing, and what fruit will do to humans). Sure, he was an ass from time to time, but jeez... God's the bad guy, not lucifer.

Of course, if you read Genesis one way, Lucifer didn't do anything with the apple, and it was just the snake that did it. (I mean, why curse the snake to crawl on it's belly for all time if it was just the devil in snake form?) But still, c'mon!

[Pardalis]

Mila Jajovich

Milla Jovovich. Now I can wrap my mind around that idea, and more...;)

[articulett]

Why do you need to drag Lucifer down to that level? Satan's done nothing but good in the bible; he brought humanity wisdom and the ability to tell right from wrong. He offered Jesus help when he was suffering in the desert thanks to his sky-daddy. He told the truth whereas God lied (like about the fruit thing, and what fruit will do to humans). Sure, he was an ass from time to time, but jeez... God's the bad guy, not lucifer.

Of course, if you read Genesis one way, Lucifer didn't do anything with the apple, and it was just the snake that did it. (I mean, why curse the snake to crawl on it's belly for all time if it was just the devil in snake form?) But still, c'mon!


If satan accepts Jesus as his personal savior, then there can be no more hell. http://www.normalbobsmith.com/publicity&promotion/banners_fliers_prayforsatan.html

[noblecaboose]

Has anyone else mentioned Q from Star Trek?

He's got my vote for what I look for in an omniscient, omnipotent being. He's all flawed and playful and downright loony.

I don't know if I'd call him a "god" but it's as close to one about whose existence I'd be willing to speculate.

[latent aaaack]

What are the most obviously untrue parts of religion?

For one thing God wouldn't be fooled by masked profanities like gadzooks (god's hooks), jeez, heck, and so on. More generally something that stands out as most made up is the anthropomorphisizing of everything. If I made up a God and a religion there'd be lots of unexpected and chaotic features. It wouldn't resemble a movie where every little thing is put there to make it a good movie from a human perspective. God should be just as likely to look like this as anything else:http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/b/b0/180px-God_(South_Park).gif

[Graham Ross]

If I could choose my own god he would have a chainsaw for a hand which he would use to kill zombies.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v381/Panaman/ash-williams-evil-dead-74400.jpg

He would also carry a boomstick.




I realise this is stretching the definition of god, but that's ok cos there is no definition of god.

[86kam]

Hmmm... This god I'm thinking of would have only one power, to make everyone believe that him/her/it was god. Who's going to argue ??
I suppose you could say it would be faith by attrition, but it's a hell of a lot more powerful than that bible god ever was..do it right or don't do it at all.

[quarky]

The Gnostics beleived that the God of the bible was an imposter; trying to draw our attention away from the true God. The Bhuddists have a more sophisticated take on God.
My favorite is probably Castanada's. Pure mystery; beyond comprehension.

The big white guy with a long beard is an abberation of the philosophicly lazy.

[A Christian Sceptic]

Ask yourself this: If you could choose your parent, would you choose one that was never around to help you grow up and protect you from danger? Would you choose one that left a cryptic diary behind claiming he was your father and that he loved you, but was never around to show it or even prove he was really your father to begin with?

You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God.

[Furi]

You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God.

tyat is a bit of a one sided pov isn't it? are you are saying that I didn't have a choice, I had to have been created by god?

[A Christian Sceptic]

If satan accepts Jesus as his personal savior, then there can be no more hell. http://www.normalbobsmith.com/publicity&promotion/banners_fliers_prayforsatan.html

Funny.

I don't really know what the existence of hell has to do with Satan's salvation though.

[A Christian Sceptic]

tyat is a bit of a one sided pov isn't it? are you are saying that I didn't have a choice, I had to have been created by god?

Please elaborate so I better understand what you are saying? You chose your biological parents? I responded to a post trying to equate choosing your parents with choosing your god.

[Nogbad]

This "can you imagine God" thing isn't going down the Anslem route is it? :)

[Furi]

Please elaborate so I better understand what you are saying? You chose your biological parents? I responded to a post trying to equate choosing your parents with choosing your god.

you have automatically assumed, that I am a product of godliness, and that I have chosen not to acknowledge the fact, I was not born a product of godlihood creation, I was created via human reproduction.

your statement seems to preclude the option of not having a god

[A Christian Sceptic]

you have automatically assumed, that I am a product of godliness, and that I have chosen not to acknowledge the fact, I was not born a product of godlihood creation, I was created via human reproduction.

your statement seems to preclude the option of not having a god

Of course - because that's what I believe. In the context of his example it was appropriate.

But this works too: "You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God IF God created you."

[fuelair]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

Visible and positively active interfering in the face of evil, not interfering otherwise. (i.e. faith not involved, operates positively - problem is - that would keep me from truly believing is it could just be an alien with advanced technology helping out the poor backward Terrans - so I guess that means I still would not believe in a God - just in something that appeared to have the characteristics of one. Not the same at all.

[Furi]

Of course - because that's what I believe. In the context of his example it was appropriate.

But this works too: "You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God IF God created you."

It was the missing IF that caused the reply :p

[ponderingturtle]

You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God.

Ah so this is God as Dead Beat Dad.

[Beth]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

I'm an agnostic, so this is the god that I don't disbelieve in, if that makes sense. I'm not quite sober tonight, so please forgive any misspellings.

I've been thinking about how to explain my feelings (I can't call them beliefs, because that would indicate a certainty I don't have) regarding god to my 8-year old atheist son. I don't know what may or may not exist beyond the 4 dimensions our consiousness exists in. I don't find it inconceivable that our universe was created by some sort of conscious entity. I don't find it inconceivable that such an entity might be able to interact with us in only very limited ways.

I don't believe that any particular religion has it right, but I don't think they are wrong either. They are imperfect ways humans have developed to foster community and share our experiences and understanding as we each, individually, attempt to access the divine within ourselves. God, if one exists, exists in each of us. We can only access the divine through ourselves and each other. Never through the material world, god lives only in the realms of thought for us. How real is that? I don't know. How real are numbers? What about the imaginary ones?

Is there something beyond the four dimensions we live in daily? I don't know. But sometimes, I feel there is something I cannot quantify or express in words. In Hofsteaders book "Goedel Esher Bach", he discusses zen koans and gives one that goes something like this: the master holds up a short stick before the student and says "this is not the short stick". They he beats the student. Somehow, they always seem to end with the student getting a beating. Ha ha. Perhaps, just perhaps, the four dimensions of objective reality are like the short stick in that koan.

Anyay, my son needs my attention now. I'll try to respond to questions later. But I'm sensitive, so be nice or you'll go on my ignore list.

Bye.

[arthwollipot]

I think everyone else has pretty well answered this one for me.

I can't imagine how a god could possibly exist. The most likely god I can think of is the non-interventionist Deist god - since I can see no evidence whatsoever in any god's intervention in reality.

If I could make up a God, well, I've answered that over in the "goddess" thread.

[Henners]

Of course - because that's what I believe. In the context of his example it was appropriate.

But this works too: "You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be created by God IF God created you."

So does this: ""You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be the Spawn of Satan."

So why do Christians give the Spawn of Satan such a bad press?

It's not their fault.

[A Christian Sceptic]

So does this: ""You can't choose your biological parents anymore than you can choose to be the Spawn of Satan."

So why do Christians give the Spawn of Satan such a bad press?

It's not their fault.

You can choose to abandon your biological parents and place someone else in that influential role. ;)

[Henners]

You can choose to abandon your biological parents and place someone else in that influential role. ;)

The way to do that in England is to could find an yourself egotistical paediatrician, get them to ask a few highly relevant questions and arrange to have yourself put into care and your parents into jail.

Are you sure that you have thought this through and aren't just making a pile of piddly excuses?

[Furi]

The way to do that in England is to could find an yourself egotistical paediatrician, get them to ask a few highly relevant questions and arrange to have yourself put into care and your parents into jail.

Are you sure that you have thought this through and aren't just making a pile of piddly excuses?

Or you can do it the other way around, and go on a trip to Portugal :scarper:

[A Christian Sceptic]

The way to do that in England is to could find an yourself egotistical paediatrician, get them to ask a few highly relevant questions and arrange to have yourself put into care and your parents into jail.

Are you sure that you have thought this through and aren't just making a pile of piddly excuses?

Was your comment about the Spawn of Satan a serious comment or sort of a playful jab? Irregardless - at least here in America there are many examples of people (especially kids) who run away and / or choose someone else to be an authority over them. If your comment was serious than my response is people aren't born a Spawn of Satan. But really - I doubt we'll agree on this if you don't even believe in God. But it was a fun little exchange.

[sackett]

I could almost believe in a finite god, that is, a god who can’t do everything.

I picture him as a harassed little old Jewish man scuttling around the cosmos, trying to keep things from getting any worse out of control.

“Zo vun day dere vas dis zingularity, chust a liddle vun, and instead of letting it collepse like usual, I kep’ it open – who knows why, so I’m a nudnik! – und schplotz! Da whole univoise comes out already!

“At foist, I vas zo heppy! A univoise, no less! But den it got bigger, and schraege – you know schraege, crooked? – und I’m zayink ‘Shtop awreddy! Genug! Enough! Too much, vot’s all dis evil yet? I din’t mean all dot!’

“But it keeps expendink, and now oy vey iz mir, ach mein aching tukhis! All etoinity I’m runnink around, schlepping, schtupping, mein hairs I could tear out, not even time to drink a liddle gless tea, eat a schtukel a brod! I can’t do miracles!

“Vell, hokay, so I can do maybe a liddle miracles sometimes. But not all da time! Zo dun’t count on it, hokay? Oy, mein aching feets!”

And off he scuttles, a god for sure, but one I can sympathize with, and just possibly help now and then.

[DoubtingStephen]

I could almost believe in a finite god, that is, a god who can’t do everything.

I picture him as a harassed little old Jewish man scuttling around the cosmos, trying to keep things from getting any worse out of control.

“Zo vun day dere vas dis zingularity, chust a liddle vun, and instead of letting it collepse like usual, I kep’ it open – who knows why, so I’m a nudnik! – und schplotz! Da whole univoise comes out already!

“At foist, I vas zo heppy! A univoise, no less! But den it got bigger, and schraege – you know schraege, crooked? – und I’m zayink ‘Shtop awreddy! Genug! Enough! Too much, vot’s all dis evil yet? I din’t mean all dot!’

“But it keeps expendink, and now oy vey iz mir, ach mein aching tukhis! All etoinity I’m runnink around, schlepping, schtupping, mein hairs I could tear out, not even time to drink a liddle gless tea, eat a schtukel a brod! I can’t do miracles!

“Vell, hokay, so I can do maybe a liddle miracles sometimes. But not all da time! Zo dun’t count on it, hokay? Oy, mein aching feets!”

And off he scuttles, a god for sure, but one I can sympathize with, and just possibly help now and then.

That seems to be a very likable deity you propose. One that a person might enjoy talking to for hours at a time, perhaps with suitable refreshments.

[TobiasTheViking]

For those who consider themselves Athiests or Agnostics,

I'm genuinely curious and hoping for serious answers.

There are probably a couple ways to phrase this question:

If you believed in God what would God be like and why?

or

If you wished there was a God what would God be like and why?

Pretty easy to answer.

God would:
a) Be good
b) Not care if you pray or believe
c) Not create a world with bad things in it(by this i mean natural phenomena)
d) Not create a world with bad humans in it(i know i know, free will bla bla bla, ********)
e) Make sure you go to heaven, even if you don't believe in God, just as long as you area good person
f) make sure everyone is a good person
g) etc etc etc.

[bruto]

I like Sackett's God.

But seriously, the only God I can believe in is so strange and inconceivable that logic and description are worthless, so remote that interaction is pointless, and so impersonal that worship is superfluous.

[drzeus99]

I'll give the author of the OP a thought to ponder.

Imagine YOURSELF as god. All powerful, all knowing, eternal..blah blah.
Perfect...All Loving...you get the point, right.

Now, if YOU, as the new god, were to create a universe (and humans),
how would you go about it.

I think if you're truthful to yourself, you're ideal universe would be FAR
more perfect than the one we live in.

A perfect god would (could) never create anything unperfect. Why would they?
Bored? Then they wouldn't be perfect.

You'd find out that you by yourself would create a much nicer world, were people loved each other, and hopefully you wouldn't be vain and want people to actually worship you. That would be an ego boost, which, for a perefect being, is unnecessary.

See where I'm going with this.