Great Youtube clip for debunking the "Black Smoke = Oxygen Starved" nonsense

[Sword_Of_Truth]

xC2SEsywK7o

@0:55 we see three separate fires, all outdoors open to the surrounding air. No way they could possibly be regarded as oxygen starved. And they are all spewing thick black smoke.

Kevin "Kill 'em All" Barrets response to this would be especially amusing. ;)

[Zlaya]

xC2SEsywK7o

@0:55 we see three separate fires, all outdoors open to the surrounding air. No way they could possibly be regarded as oxygen starved. And they are all spewing thick black smoke.

Kevin "Kill 'em All" Barrets response to this would be especially amusing. ;)

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

[Hyver]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke
The video clip is meant to put down the myth that black smoke indicates an oxygen starved fire. Though I can't speak for SoT I seriously doubt that the views and opinions presented in the rest of the clip are at all representative of his views and opinions.

[Brainache]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

So are you going to tell us that radical Islam doesn't exist and that we are all fools for thinking that it does?

[NickUK]

There was a great post sometime back that put the smoke argument into some kind of context.

Went something like:

Black Smoke - Oxygen Starved = INSIDE JOB
White Smoke - Thermite = INSIDE JOB
No Smoke - No Fires = INSIDE JOB

Can't remember the whole thing!

[soylent]

I've looked a bit at combustion and here's what I remember. I believe it's fairly accurate.

Some fuels, like ethanol, can't form black smoke in a normal fire because the intermediary combustion products are all small gas molecules that don't have a tendency to polymerize into soot.

Hydrocarbons like gasoline tend to form solid particulates composed mostly of carbon. The flame has a blue part where the pyrolysis occurs. In the orange/yellowish part of the flame the products of pyrolysis polymerize into big carbon blobs, releasing energy and hydrogen(mono-atomic and molecular). The soot is a good black-body, it will create a bright flame that radiates a lot of infrared; standing near a significant fire will feel hot on exposed skin without touching the combustion products. If there's ample oxygen the soot particles can burn completely, forming mostly CO2, which is what happens in a good kerosene lamp. You need very good conditions to completely burn up the soot and it's very black, so even if there's just a tiny bit off it you'll get thick black smoke.

When a fire is severely oxygen starved you tend to get pyrolysis products that haven't let go of much of their hydrogen yet. These typically appear as a grey-ish haze.

In a real fire you'll have a lot of particulates which aren't fuels(like ash) or are very poor fuels that don't combust properly even with a lot of excess oxygen and high temperature. You may have PVC emitting vast quantities of hydrochloric acid which will favour water droplet formation and condensation. You'll have parts of the fire which have started to run out of fuel or are composed of flame-retardant materials that will emit lots of smoke.

It seems non-trivial to be able to make any firm conclusion from such a mess.

[soylent]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

What a coincidence, that's how I feel when I watch 9/11 truthers bend over backwards to make excuses for and exhonorate radical islam.

[NikZeta302]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

problem with that is Islam is an ideology not a race

[peteweaver]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

Zlaya Islam is not a race, its a religion.

There are muslims from a number of races including caucasian.
Criticising religious teachings is not the same as demonising every living muslim.

The KKK, don't care what religion someone might be, they judge people on race and appearance.

Here is an outspoken critic of Islam:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
She's a black somali former member of the brotherhood of Islam, who is now an atheist.

[chillzero]

Let's concentrate on the OP, and not get distracted off topic by a single post.

[Dave Rogers]

There was a great post sometime back that put the smoke argument into some kind of context.

Went something like:

Black Smoke - Oxygen Starved = INSIDE JOB
White Smoke - Thermite = INSIDE JOB
No Smoke - No Fires = INSIDE JOB

Can't remember the whole thing!

Could've been one of mine. I think I later added:

Grey Smoke - Oxygen Starved Thermite = INSIDE JOB

Dave

[Sword_Of_Truth]

Let's concentrate on the OP, and not get distracted off topic by a single post.

Actually, black smoke and radical islam are both on-topic.

When I noticed the black smoke in the video where islamic radicals attacked a christian church, I realized this would make a great double whammy.

Why stop at debunking a claim when you can jab a finger in a troofers eye in the process? :D

[Undesired Walrus]

What's with all the British crazies in that clip?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

What's with all the British crazies in that clip?

I believe that was from a demonstration that occurred in London following the hysteria over the danish Mohammed cartoons.

[Mancman]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

Trust a truther to miss the point by a country mile.

[Mince]

Wow. I think you should promote the greater virtue of that video: that there are muslims who do want to destroy others merely because of our choice of religion/freedoms/whatever.

[Mince]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke


You should have listened to what the muslims in that video were saying. Now that would make you puke.

[Swing Dangler]

xC2SEsywK7o

@0:55 we see three separate fires, all outdoors open to the surrounding air. No way they could possibly be regarded as oxygen starved. And they are all spewing thick black smoke.

Kevin "Kill 'em All" Barrets response to this would be especially amusing. ;)

I can't access youtube! at my NWO bunker.

Can you describe what is being burnt to cause the black smoke?

[Mince]

I can't access youtube! at my NWO bunker.

I assume you mean work (hehe--NWO bunker--funny).

Just curious: Are you allowed to access message boards and post to them while at work?

[Swing Dangler]

I assume you mean work (hehe--NWO bunker--funny).

Just curious: Are you allowed to access message boards and post to them while at work?

No, I'm having a NWO lizard read my thoughts, transcribe them, and then type them here under my pseudonym all from it's NWO bunker.

[Mince]

No, I'm having a NWO lizard read my thoughts, transcribe them, and then type them here under my pseudonym all from it's NWO bunker.


Ok. Because you are aware that by surfing the internet at work without permission you are stealing from your employer, since they are not paying you to post to JREF forums.

You are aware of that, right? And why doesn't this mystical lizard make it possible for you to watch YouTube?

[GStan]

I can't access youtube! at my NWO bunker.

Can you describe what is being burnt to cause the black smoke?

One is definitely a car. The other looks like a small apartment building, but it could just be something in front of the building burning. Its difficult to tell because of all the thick black smoke.;)

ETA: In looking again, it could be a church.

[Dave_46]

I've posted this before. It is from guidance given by a UK Government department for the preparation of fire risk assessments.

I just wanted to pick up on the smoke colour.

I happened to be reading a guide to the United Kingdom Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order yesterday (don't ask!) The one I was reading was for producing a Fire Risk Assessment for Small And Medium Places Of Entertainment.

Link http://www.communities.gov.uk/pub/426/SmallandMediumPlacesofAssemblyfullguide_id1500426. pdf

At the bottom of page 16 (document page) is this paragraph.


Smoke produced by a fire also contains
toxic gases which are harmful to
people. A fire in a building with modern
fittings and materials generates smoke
that is thick and black, obscures vision,
causes great difficulty in breathing and
can block the escape routes.


This fits with my experience, and it has been mentioned by other posters here, the smoke colour is mainly influenced by what is burning, and is not indicative of oxygen starvation.

Dave

[jhunter1163]

There was a great post sometime back that put the smoke argument into some kind of context.

Went something like:

Black Smoke - Oxygen Starved = INSIDE JOB
White Smoke - Thermite = INSIDE JOB
No Smoke - No Fires = INSIDE JOB

Can't remember the whole thing!

White Smoke = A Pope has been elected = Inside Job
Black Smoke = No Pope has been elected = Inside Job
Gray Smoke = Reporters are confused = Inside Job

[Sword_Of_Truth]

WOW You Jref crowd are starting to look like kkk, cape wearing racists. That video makes me feel the same way as i do when i hear Michelle Malkin, Ann Coulter or Bill O'Reilly speak...

Puke

Zlaya - we understand that you are a racist. That you consider arabs and moslems to be "untermensch", a lesser race that lacks, among other things, the mental capacity to learn how to fly modern multi-engine jet airliners.

The clip I linked to is from a film called "Obsession: Radical Islams War Against the West". You can see a longer version of the clip I linked here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyRuHHiF2GI)

Going beyond the portion of the film I linked to before, this one turns from an ominous tone to one of hope. The film draws parallels between our current situation and the one we faced in 1939. Just as the responsibility to deal with the rise of a racist fascist regime in what was a majority christian nation before the war fell to other largely christian nations like Great Britain, the United States and Canada, so too must the responsibility to deal with radical islam be borne, at least in part, by those moslems who want peace.

The film even goes on to quote several moslem reformers and others as voices of hope:

We know that these people act in the name of islam. But we also know that the vast and overwhelming majority of muslims here and abroad are decent and law abiding people who abhor this act of terrorsm every bit as much as we do.
- British Prime Minister Tony Blair

We have not succeeded in making our children love life. We have taught them to die for Allah, but we have not taught them how to live for the sake of Allah.
- Abd Al-Hamid Al-Ansari

Dear brothers, [the terrorists] belong to the enemies of islam. Those who distort the image of islam belong to the enemies.
- Sheik Mubarak Lamhiri

The muslim and arab peoples have as much to offer as anyone. They can become productive members of the human community. And yes, they can even learn to fly and land multi-engine airliners.

Until you put aside your own hatreds for arabs, jews or whoever... you will not be a part of the solution, nor will you have any grounds to project your character flaws upon us.

[BigAl]

The KKK, don't care what religion someone might be, they judge people on race and appearance.


The pope and Rome are at the top of the list for the KKK and their fellow travelers. Nutcase Protestant fundies do ,too.