Scientology exposed (why Germany is right)

[Btodd]

In the other threads, I've seen a fair amount of people who, despite being critical of Scientology, feel it is deserving of the same protection as other religions, as if it weren't really much different.

This is the thread for those of you who know better to post evidences for why Scientology is a threat at its very core. Policies, words of L Ron Hubbard himself, crimes, abuses of human rights, harassment of critics.....those of you who understand why Scientology is much too dangerous to be labeled as simply another religion...post evidences here.

I'm going to post some of L Ron Hubbard's words and policies to start things off:



"MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 9 March 1972, MS OEC 384


"Somebody some day will say this is illegal. By then be sure the orgs [Scientology organizations] say what is legal or not." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 4 January 1966, "LRH Relationship to Orgs"


"If attacked on some vulnerable point by anyone or anything or any organization, always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 15 August 1960, Dept. of Govt. Affairs


"The purpose of the suit is to harass and discourage rather than to win. The law can be used very easily to harass, and enough harassment on somebody who is simply on the thin edge anyway, well knowing that he is not authorized, will generally be sufficient to cause his professional decease. If possible, of course, ruin him utterly." - L. Ron Hubbard, A MANUAL ON THE DISSEMINATION OF MATERIAL, 1955


"When we need somebody haunted we investigate. When we investigate we do so noisily always." - L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959


"People attack Scientology, I never forget it, always even the score. People attack auditors, or staff, or organisations, or me. I never forget until the slate is clear." - L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959


"So we listen. We add up associations of people with people. When a push against Scientology starts somewhere, we go over the people involved and weed them out. Push vanishes." - L. Ron Hubbard, MANUAL OF JUSTICE, 1959

"ENEMY SP Order. Fair game. May be deprived of property or injured by any means by any Scientologist without any discipline of the Scientologist. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 18 October 1967[SP = Suppressive Person a.k.a. critic of Scientology]


"A truly Suppressive Person or group has no rights of any kind and actions taken against them are not punishable." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 1 March 1965, HCO (Division 1) "Ethics, Suppressive Acts, Suppression of Scientology and Scientologists"


"The names and connections, at this time, of the bitterly opposing enemy are: 1. Psychiatry and psychology (not medicine). 2. The heads of news media who are also directors of psychiatric front groups. 3. A few key political figures in the fields of "mental health" and education. 4. A decline of monetary stability caused by the current planning of bankers who are also directors of psychiatric front organizations [that] would make us unable to function." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 16 February 1969, "TARGETS, DEFENSE"


"There are only two answers for the handling of people from 2.0 down on the Tone Scale, neither one of which has anything to do with reasoning with them or listening to their justification of their acts. The first is to raise them on the Tone Scale by un-enturbulating some of their theta by any one of the three valid processes. The other is to dispose of them quietly and without sorrow." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 170


"Unfortunately, it is all too often true that suppressors to a creative action must be removed before construction and creation takes place. Any person very high on the Tone Scale may level destruction toward a suppressor." - L. Ron Hubbard, SCIENCE OF SURVIVAL, p. 159


"This is the correct procedure: Spot who is attacking us. Start investigating them promptly for felonies or worse using our own professionals, not outside agencies. Double curve our reply by saying we welcome an investigation of them. Start feeding lurid, blood sex crime actual evidence on the attackers to the press. Don't ever tamely submit to an investigation of us. Make it rough, rough on attackers all the way." - L. Ron Hubbard, Hubbard Communications Office Policy Letter, 25 February 1966


"Scientology...is not a religion." - L. Ron Hubbard, CREATION OF HUMAN ABILITY, 1954, p. 251


"Leukaemia is evidently psychosomatic in origin and at least eight cases of leukaemia had been treated successfully by Dianetics after medicine had traditionally given up. The source of leukaemia has been reported to be an engram containing the phrase 'It turns my blood to water.'" - L. Ron Hubbard, "Journal of Scientology," Issue 15-G, 1953



Please feel free to add your own information here. I plan on this being a very lengthy thread, with tons of documentation of harassment of critics, criminal cases, lawsuits, and most damning.....the very character of L Ron Hubbard.


Btodd

[Oliver]

Or to sum it up:

Back in the 1940's, L. Ron Hubbard was a member of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society (when its old clubhouse was just north of Wilshire Blvd). Ted vividly recalled being a few yards from Hubbard, when he became testy with someone there and retorted, "Y'know, we're all wasting our time writing this hack science fiction! You wanna make real money, you gotta start a religion!

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/L._Ron_Hubbard

[grayman]

Here's a good place for information (http://www.xenu.net/).

[DOC]

Here is a site that says Hubbard got many of his ideas from a famous devil worshipper:

From the article "L. Ron Hubbard and Black Magic/Occult"

"Hubbard got many of his ideas from infamous devil worshipper Alistair Crowley."

"Hubbard had met Crowley in the latter's Los Angeles temple in 1945," Paglia writes. "Hubbard's son reveals that Hubbard claimed to be Crowley's successor: Hubbard told him that Scientology was born on the day that Crowley died." [...]

http://www.xenu-directory.net/topics/blackmagic.html

[Big Les]

Look, this is all obviously really bad and undesirable. All I was saying in the other thread is that other burgeoning religions were just as bad in their own past. It's simply that we can see it happening with Scientology, and that Hubbard was rather more forthcoming with his nonsense and questionable comments than was the medieval Christian church (for example). We are no longer illiterate, easily manipulated peasants, and most of us can see the CoS for what it is. We have challenged our existing religions on all of the unfair and bad things that they have got up to, and they have cleaned up their act. There is no reason why those in charge of Scientology could not be forced to do likewise, rather than simply being proscribed. That was my point, most certainly not that Scientology as it is run and administered by the current "church" is in any way as "good" or worthwhile as any mainstream religion today. They are clearly in different ballparks.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

They have the right to continue to be ridiculous and we have the right to laugh and laugh and laugh.

~~ Paul

[Btodd]

Big Les and Paul C.,

This thread isn't directed at anyone personally, and I hope you will both stick around, because I'm not talking about 'silliness'. This thread isn't about body thetans and Xenu, it's about abuse of human rights, harassment, fraud and criminal activities, all of which are built into the system that L Ron designed. This thread is to portray WHY Scientology is much more dangerous than such silliness, and why it would no longer be Scientology if these things are 'cleaned up'.

There's a huge difference.

I also hope those who post in the thread will post the actual evidences, instead of simply linking us to Operation Clambake over and over. I want people to be able to read it right here on the screen.

[Wildy]

Big Les and Paul C.,

This thread isn't directed at anyone personally, and I hope you will both stick around, because I'm not talking about 'silliness'. This thread isn't about body thetans and Xenu, it's about abuse of human rights, harassment, fraud and criminal activities, all of which are built into the system that L Ron designed. This thread is to portray WHY Scientology is much more dangerous than such silliness, and why it would no longer be Scientology if these things are 'cleaned up'.

There's a huge difference.

I also hope those who post in the thread will post the actual evidences, instead of simply linking us to Operation Clambake over and over. I want people to be able to read it right here on the screen.

Wouldn't say the Anderson Report do far better? Or looking into "Operation Snow White"?

Quotes are ok but it seem that even you are open to being called a quote miner (I'm not calling you that). There are quotes out there that actually go against the idea of fair game that came from Hubbard himself.

[ravdin]

By what means would you have Scientology banned? Declare all e-meters contraband? Organize a book burning rally for "Dianetics"? Raid their headquarters and put the leaders on public trial?

OK, I admit I like the idea of throwing Tom Cruise in a deep dark pit and never hearing from him again. But we can't do that in a free society.

The way I see it, the COS is liable in the same way that the Catholic Church is liable for its pedophile rapist priests, or the Westboro Baptists are liable for harassing the families of dead soldiers at their funerals. If you have evidence that they are engaged in illegal activities, prosecute them or take it up in a civil suit. I'm all for standing up to bullies- but I disagree with calling on the government to enforce a ban on an organization that we personally dislike.

[Btodd]

Wouldn't say the Anderson Report do far better? Or looking into "Operation Snow White"?

Quotes are ok but it seem that even you are open to being called a quote miner (I'm not calling you that). There are quotes out there that actually go against the idea of fair game that came from Hubbard himself.

Oh, you're right, those will do better. The quotes are laying the groundwork. When Operation Snow White comes out, then I want people to be able to refer back to Ron's quotes, to show that he specifically calls for actions like Operation Snow White.

I want people to see that these types of acts ARE Scientology, as designed specifically by L Ron Hubbard.

And I don't think there are quotes that counter the Fair Game doctrine, only the quote that says it should no longer be MENTIONED. If that's the one you are speaking of, please re-read it....it doesn't eradicate the Fair Game policy, which continues to this very day with all of the zeal that it ever did.

I hope you will assist me by posting things like Operation Snow White in this thread (not just a link).:)


Btodd

[Btodd]

By what means would you have Scientology banned? Declare all e-meters contraband? Organize a book burning rally for "Dianetics"? Raid their headquarters and put the leaders on public trial?

OK, I admit I like the idea of throwing Tom Cruise in a deep dark pit and never hearing from him again. But we can't do that in a free society.

Let me be clear. I don't think we should ever ban the books, or ban the practice of auditing or allowing an individual to believe in and practice those things.

I am for banning the organization surrounding those beliefs, which is a shell game of fraud and abuse of human rights to make money. Is the church and its despicable actions necessary for someone to practice Scientology?

As long as there is an organization acting on the principles L Ron laid out, there will be danger to society, and organized abuse of human rights.

The way I see it, the COS is liable in the same way that the Catholic Church is liable for its pedophile rapist priests, or the Westboro Baptists are liable for harassing the families of dead soldiers at their funerals. If you have evidence that they are engaged in illegal activities, prosecute them or take it up in a civil suit. I'm all for standing up to bullies- but I disagree with calling on the government to enforce a ban on an organization that we personally dislike.

Have you seen what happens to people who bring a civil suit? Do you really understand how nigh impossible it is to withstand the multiple frivolous lawsuits, the tailing of your every move by private investigators, the distribution of flyers in your neighborhood about being a child molestor, the endless phone calls to your work and friends to destroy your reputation with lies?

How is this combatted exactly, when the entire organization is built around hiding it and making your life a living hell when you point it out?

Nobody wants to fight, and that's EXACTLY what L Ron wanted. Some of the most important critics over the years have simply dropped out overnight, signing agreements to stop harming Scientology to the utter bewilderment of their fellow critics. Even if you go after the church, you will only last so long, because they have teams of people who will not stop until your life is destroyed. Read about Robert Minton, Michael Flynn, Gerry Armstrong...the list is almost endless.

Did you read the quotes by L Ron, laying out this very scenario? You know, 'If possible, ruin him utterly?' This IS Scientology.


Btodd

[ravdin]

I am for banning the organization surrounding those beliefs, which is a shell game of fraud and abuse of human rights to make money.

I'll ask again- by what means would you ban the entire organization?

[Btodd]

I'll ask again- by what means would you ban the entire organization?

I have not put together an all-encompassing 'business plan' as it were, but if your point is that it will be hard to separate the organization from the kooky beliefs that I would allow to remain, then I get your point.

But to play along, I would be for banning the Orgs, the multiple front groups (Narconon, Criminon, Wise, CCHR, etc.) used to recruit and hide connection to the church itself, the corporate structure run by David Miscavige, the Office of Special Affairs (the harassment branch), the RPF, the tax exemptions...

If you're against the very premise, then would you provide the same protection to a terrorist group in the US? Would you allow them to meet, talk about how infidels should be killed, and then only prosecute those who act on it? At some point, you have to face the fact that certain organizations are too dangerous to allow. While I understand that you may not think Scientology approaches that level of danger, this thread is for showing just how dangerous it is, and that it is by design. Scientology didn't get this way contrary to Ron's teaching. It's doing exactly what it was supposed to.


Btodd

[HarryKeogh]

By what means would you have Scientology banned? Declare all e-meters contraband? Organize a book burning rally for "Dianetics"? Raid their headquarters and put the leaders on public trial?

OK, I admit I like the idea of throwing Tom Cruise in a deep dark pit and never hearing from him again. But we can't do that in a free society.

The way I see it, the COS is liable in the same way that the Catholic Church is liable for its pedophile rapist priests, or the Westboro Baptists are liable for harassing the families of dead soldiers at their funerals. If you have evidence that they are engaged in illegal activities, prosecute them or take it up in a civil suit. I'm all for standing up to bullies- but I disagree with calling on the government to enforce a ban on an organization that we personally dislike.

Agreed. Banning religions is a step backwards. (and I still feel this way even though I'm currently reading a forty page excerpt from the Philadelphia grand jury report on sexual abuse of children by priests and how the Catholic church covered up many of these crimes. The things these priests did make LRH seem like the patron saint of compassion)

[ravdin]

I have not put together an all-encompassing 'business plan' as it were, but if your point is that it will be hard to separate the organization from the kooky beliefs that I would allow to remain, then I get your point.

My point is a bit different. I'm thinking about it from a practical point of view. Do we board up all of the Scientology buildings? Tell the leaders to stop spreading Scientology or go to jail? Prevent more than three Scientologists from meeting in the same place?

But to play along, I would be for banning the Orgs, the multiple front groups (Narconon, Criminon, Wise, CCHR, etc.) used to recruit and hide connection to the church itself, the corporate structure run by David Miscavige, the Office of Special Affairs (the harassment branch), the RPF, the tax exemptions...

Other than ending the tax exemptions (I completely agree with you on this, by the way), how can we reconcile "banning" these organizations with living in a free society? You still haven't directly answered my question about what it would mean to "ban" them.

If you're against the very premise, then would you provide the same protection to a terrorist group in the US? Would you allow them to meet, talk about how infidels should be killed, and then only prosecute those who act on it? At some point, you have to face the fact that certain organizations are too dangerous to allow. While I understand that you may not think Scientology approaches that level of danger, this thread is for showing just how dangerous it is, and that it is by design. Scientology didn't get this way contrary to Ron's teaching. It's doing exactly what it was supposed to.

I never suggested that Scientology is what it is today contrary to Hubbard's original intent. I don't know or care if this is the case.

As for the terrorist organizations- again, we can't just ban certain Muslim groups because they might be funneling money to terrorist organizations in the Middle East. We have to gather evidence first, freeze their funds, and put them on trial. I propose we engage the Scientologist leaders the same way.

[Btodd]

I would like to know what some of you think the Cult Awareness Network should have done to combat Scientology, and why you don't think these actions were the essence of Scientology itself.

I'm going to link to the full explanation, which I encourage you to read, but here is the very short version.

The Cult Awareness Network was an organization in which one could call to get some type of help concerning a friend or loved one who was in the clutches of a religious cult. Not suprisingly, the cult most reported to CAN was the Church of Scientology.

In 1991, 50 individual Scientologists wrote to CAN, using a form letter in which their names could simply be added (one of which still showed the 'insert name here' instruction on the page!), to try and join the organization. Imagine the gall of a KKK member trying to join an anti-racist organization, because that's pretty much the equivalent. Anyway, when their membership was denied, they all sued CAN at the same time, as well as reporting them to state agencies for discrimination.

Since CAN wasn't even remotely as wealthy and litigious as the CO$, they were forced into bankruptcy. Regardless of the truth of the lawsuits, CAN could not financially defend itself.

At the bankruptcy sale, CAN and all of its files on cults, people who had reported cults (most notably Scientology), its phone lines and everything were SOLD TO A SCIENTOLOGIST.

Now when you call the Cult Awareness Network, you are speaking to a Scientologist! If you call to report Scientology there, you are GIVING YOUR NAME to those who would destroy you.

Now, in the quotes I listed above, L Ron Hubbard made acts like this STANDARD POLICY. It is Scientology.

What would you do? What should CAN have done? What can be done by anyone who doesn't have even a fraction of the CO$'s money and power?

Here's the link, and yes it is Wikipedia, because it lays this out in the most straightforward terms:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_Awareness_Network

Does anyone think we should protect their right to do things like this? What would you suggest to combat such activities?


Btodd

[Btodd]

My point is a bit different. I'm thinking about it from a practical point of view. Do we board up all of the Scientology buildings? Tell the leaders to stop spreading Scientology or go to jail? Prevent more than three Scientologists from meeting in the same place?

I already laid out some of the things I think should be banned. Of course I don't want to ban multiple Scientologists from getting together, or I would be talking about banning Freezoners, which I am not.

I think the Freezone could be a great model of how Scientology could continue without the corporate fraud and abuses of human rights.

Other than ending the tax exemptions (I completely agree with you on this, by the way), how can we reconcile "banning" these organizations with living in a free society? You still haven't directly answered my question about what it would mean to "ban" them.

See above.

I never suggested that Scientology is what it is today contrary to Hubbard's original intent. I don't know or care if this is the case.

You don't care if the human rights abuses were contrary to L Ron's teachings, as opposed to being carefully designed that way? Are you serious? That's the essence of the problem. When one joins the CO$, they are making these things happen. That's what the organization does and was designed to do.

As for the terrorist organizations- again, we can't just ban certain Muslim groups because they might be funneling money to terrorist organizations in the Middle East. We have to gather evidence first, freeze their funds, and put them on trial. I propose we engage the Scientologist leaders the same way.

I think that's what Germany is doing, is it not? There is going to be a trial. What do you suggest, allowing a group with the abuse of human rights as its main focus to continue, and then trying to stop all of its abuses for the rest of time in order to allow the belief to continue? You want to plug a leaking dam with your finger?

Are you saying that if I design a belief system that has human rights abuses at its core, with a corporate structure and specific techniques, which are even drilled on (!), to carry out those abuses, then we have no recourse than to simply allow the organization to continue, and simply punish each individual crime after the fact?

It's like saying, 'We know that your beliefs require you to lie to us to cover up abuses, but we will assume you are telling us the truth when you say they aren't being carried out, even though we have multiple evidences of this being done. Please don't harass us or sue us! All religions are equal!'.

Sorry for the sarcasm. :)


Btodd

[ravdin]

Btodd-

You keep evading my very simple question about what it would mean to "ban" Scientology. Instead you have set up multiple straw men which would be too tiresome to refute individually.

I applaud your efforts in exposing their vile practices. I believe that free speech applied to all will ultimately damage rather than aid the Scientologists' cause.

I don't think you know what you mean when you say you want to "ban" Scientology. If you can't answer the question, then we don't have a basis to continue a discussion on that topic.

[Btodd]

Btodd-

You keep evading my very simple question about what it would mean to "ban" Scientology. Instead you have set up multiple straw men which would be too tiresome to refute individually.

I applaud your efforts in exposing their vile practices. I believe that free speech applied to all will ultimately damage rather than aid the Scientologists' cause.

I don't think you know what you mean when you say you want to "ban" Scientology. If you can't answer the question, then we don't have a basis to continue a discussion on that topic.

You are correct. I don't have a list of specifics on what a ban entails and how to enforce it without stepping on the right of Scientologists to meet with each other. I was specific on the parts of the organizational structure that I think would have to be stopped in order to curb these abuses, but I hardly have the expertise necessary to lay out the plan. I don't think I'm required to be a politician or lawmaker in this thread. I listed specific front groups used by the CO$, and have started (with the CAN story) to show how these 'rights' are used to circumvent the law and the rights of others. I have a long way to go, and I hope others will join in.

My main purpose is to show why Scientology is not 'just another religion' with bad traits mixed in with good ones. This thread is to show how the very purpose of L Ron's ideas, and especially the organizational structure, combined with the brainwashing techniques, are designed to get the abuses I'm in the process of listing.

I hope you will stick around. I would appreciate your ideas on how to stop these things. I asked you if you think punishing individual events after-the-fact will do anything at all to stop the systematic abuses I'm speaking of. If I'm way off the mark, I welcome your suggestions.

As I asked, what do you think the Cult Awareness Network should have done? Does that seem like a coincidence that multiple Scientologists all tried to join CAN at once, and coincidentally sued them into bankruptcy, and coincidentally bought it out and still answer the phones as if nothing ever happened? Or perhaps a concerted effort to destroy free speech and critical inquiry, which is coincidentally laid out in L Ron's quotes I listed at the start of the thread?

The references to the Catholic Church and the molestation of children would be a better comparison, if you could find a verse in the bible that says, "Molest little children, and use the churches' organizational structure to cover it up', so sayeth Jesus. This is the point of the thread.


Btodd

[Wildy]

By what means would you have Scientology banned? Declare all e-meters contraband?

When Scientology was a banned organisation there was also legislation passed that prevented the use of the e-meter for profit. Unfortunately after a stupid High Court decision it was all reversed.

[fredcarr]

Unfortunately after a stupid High Court decision it was all reversed.

So a High Court decision is stupid if it decides in our favor?

[korenyx]

So a High Court decision is stupid if it decides in our favor?


Churches are not supposed to be for profit Fred. Your church claimed tax-exempt by saying it was not for profit. You can't have it both ways.
That's unethical and people get kicked out of your church for that.

[fredcarr]

Churches are not supposed to be for profit Fred. Your church claimed tax-exempt by saying it was not for profit. You can't have it both ways.
That's unethical and people get kicked out of your church for that.

Last I checked we are a non-profit organization.

[CFLarsen]

Last I checked we are a non-profit organization.

That, you have to explain!

[Btodd]

Last I checked we are a non-profit organization.

:jaw-dropp

[Big Les]

Well, I'm thoroughly depressed. I just heard that the actors behind Earl, Randy, and their reoccurring criminal chum in the superb My Name is Earl, are all Scientologists. Given the market penetration they have in hollywood, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

[Btodd]

Well, I'm thoroughly depressed. I just heard that the actors behind Earl, Randy, and their reoccurring criminal chum in the superb My Name is Earl, are all Scientologists. Given the market penetration they have in hollywood, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Dude. Bart Simpson is a Scientologist.

That's as close to understanding blasphemy as I'll ever get.

[Gazpacho]

My favorite is from former Sea Org officer Stacy Brooks, at the end of a much longer commentary (http://www.ezlink.com/%7Eperry/CoS/Theology/stacy.htm):

By now you know that the entire physical universe is composed of BTs [body thetans]. You know that the reason it is so important to get everyone on the planet into Scientology and on the Bridge to Total Freedom is that it will take every single person auditing all day long, every day, for many, many years, to audit out all the body thetans that compose the physical universe. You now share the most important secret of all, because only now that you are on OT 7 do you know that the true goal of Scientology is to make the physical universe disappear.

And that is why nothing can stand in the way of Scientology's forward expansion. That is why anyone who tries to stop Scientology must be ruthlessly moved out of the way. Truly, it is a matter of the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics! How can we be concerned about the fate of one individual critic, or one individual Suppressive Person, when the fate of the entire Universe is at stake?
...
Now it is perfectly clear to you why LRH set up the Guardian's Office, now known as the Office of Special Affairs, and said "The goal of the Department is to bring the government and hostile philosophies or societies into a state of complete compliance with the goals of Scientology. This is done by high level ability to control and in its absence by low level ability to overwhelm. Introvert such agencies. Control such agencies. Scientology is the only game on Earth where everybody wins. There is no overt [meaning crime] in bringing good order."

This is what goes on in the mind of a high-level Scientologist.

[Macoy]

We should follow the wise leadership of Tajikistan:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7141658.stm

All undemonstratable esoteric drivel should be an offence punishable by an on-the-spot fine.

[dirtywick]

Btodd-

You keep evading my very simple question about what it would mean to "ban" Scientology. Instead you have set up multiple straw men which would be too tiresome to refute individually.

I applaud your efforts in exposing their vile practices. I believe that free speech applied to all will ultimately damage rather than aid the Scientologists' cause.

I don't think you know what you mean when you say you want to "ban" Scientology. If you can't answer the question, then we don't have a basis to continue a discussion on that topic.

RICO. Treat them like any other organized crime network. From my non-professional understanding of that statute, their fair game policy is pretty similar to racketeering, and they're definately extorting people and committing fraud.

If not, they need to amend that so what the CoS is doing falls under it and release the hounds. If the CoS isn't organized white collar crime, I don't know what is.

[Wildy]

So a High Court decision is stupid if it decides in our favor?

From the Anderson Report, Chapter 30: Recommendations:

If there should be detected in this Report a note of unrelieved denunciation of scientology, it is because the evidence has shown its theories to be fantastic and impossible, its principles perverted and ill-founded, and its techniques debased and harmful. Scientology is a delusional belief system, based on fiction and fallacies and propagated by falsehood and deception. While making an appeal to the public as a worthy system whereby ability, intelligence and personality may be improved, it employs techniques which further its real purpose of securing domination over and mental enslavement of its adherents. It involves the administration by persons without any training in medicine or psychology of quasi-psychological treatment, which is harmful medically, morally and socially.

On the recommendation of this report the Victorian Government passed legislation banning the group. When they just changed their name and sued the government somehow the High Court decided to say that you couldn't ban the group, but also said that they were a religion.

[fishkr]

So a High Court decision is stupid if it decides in our favor?

No, Fred, a high court decision that decides in your favor is stupid because the world would be a better place if mind numbing drivel like Scientology didn't exist, and any such ruling can be seen as a un-realized opportunity to improve things.

[DARK LORD XENU]

RICO. Treat them like any other organized crime network. From my non-professional understanding of that statute, their fair game policy is pretty similar to racketeering, and they're definately extorting people and committing fraud.

If not, they need to amend that so what the CoS is doing falls under it and release the hounds. If the CoS isn't organized white collar crime, I don't know what is.

Heres a reason to ban scentology it is a evil religion which says that I Xenu am the evil one further more they brainwash there followers into paying millions for crap that tells them how to live a better life and how to supposidly defeat me for something I was framed for IF YOU CAN PROVE I XENU EXIST in fact Hubbard created the "church" as a tax shelter to make money and then again they brainwash their followers and they never talk about how people who have left their "church" some of which wound up either killing themselves oh and then theres how they do not want any one to know about XENU unless they kick over a wheel barrow of money at minimum then theres those bloody e-meters which by the way are nothing more than LIE DETECTORS and with the crap they peddle whos really more evil me XENU or L Ron Hubbard

[Wildy]

Hi Xenu, welcome to the forum.

How's Trey and Matt?

[Furi]

I'd say the best way to remove the influence of the COS. is to let it design it's own petard first.

Letting COS embarrass itself into obscurity is sort of like letting YECs prattle on about how the bible is 100% truth, the more they prattle, the bigger the hole they dig. who knows maybe they'll dig deep enough to find a new planted by god fossil layer? or maybe a crashed DC8

A few people might get financially burned en route, and some emotionally scarred, these cases can be brought up in civil courts as independant cases, it is not a matter that most governments that allow the freedom of choice of religion to meddle in. unless sufficient evidence of illegal activity is shown, if it was just because the COS is Morally corrupt, Encourages titheing, makes fraudulant claims, preys on peoples emotions, persecutes excommunicated members, has an agressive indoctrination strategy, destroys peoples lives/freedom err... sorry which religion was I talking about again,

[DARK LORD XENU]

Trey and Matt their doing thanks for asking! hows abouts everyone else here how are you all? also did you know that L Ron Hubbard realy was just a damn dirty hippy nut job who needed a good hosing down and slap up side the head? if not you do now!

[DARK LORD XENU]

oops sorry spelling error I meant say Trey and Matt are doing fine thanks for asking

[Wildy]

That's fine. You are like the Emperor Sigismund:

"I am the King of Rome and above grammar"

except in this case it's spelling...

[DARK LORD XENU]

Yes well unfortunately no body is quite perfect by the way I may as well come clean on something the alien space craft that crashed in roswell was me and the dead aliens were my crew members the reason I'm still around is because I fled the scene after my dui I was blind drunk and took over the controls and crashed "acindentaly" into that there ranch but it was only a coincidence that I didn't like those guys who died at the scene but hey at least they become famous right? and now I can help earth rid its self of scientology before I retire!