Oh Noes! Electromagnetic Sun, Magnetic Earth!

[robinson]

SAN FRANCISCO, California (AP) -- Scientists think they have discovered the energy source of auroras borealis, the spectacular color displays seen in the upper latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere.


New data from NASA's Themis mission, a quintet of satellites launched this winter, found the energy comes from a stream of charged particles from the sun flowing like a current through twisted bundles of magnetic fields connecting Earth's upper atmosphere to the sun.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/science/12/13/northern.lights.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Dec. 11, 2007: NASA's fleet of THEMIS spacecraft, launched less than 8 months ago, has made three important discoveries about spectacular eruptions of Northern Lights called "substorms" and the source of their power. The discoveries include giant magnetic ropes that connect Earth's upper atmosphere to the Sun and explosions in the outskirts of Earth's magnetic field.

"The mission is only beginning but THEMIS is already surprising us," says Vassilis Angelopoulos the mission's principal investigator at the University of California, Los Angeles.


Right away the substorm surprised investigators: "The auroras surged westward twice as fast as anyone thought possible, crossing 15 degrees of longitude in less than one minute," says Angelopoulos. The storm had traversed an entire polar time zone in 60 seconds flat!

Even more impressive was the substorm's power. Angelopoulos estimates the total energy of the two-hour event at five hundred thousand billion (5 x 1014) Joules. ...

"The satellites have found evidence for magnetic ropes connecting Earth's upper atmosphere directly to the Sun," says Dave Sibeck, project scientist for the mission at the Goddard Space Flight Center. "We believe that solar wind particles flow in along these ropes, providing energy for geomagnetic storms and auroras."

A "magnetic rope" is a twisted bundle of magnetic fields organized much like the twisted hemp of a mariner's rope. Spacecraft have detected hints of these ropes before, but a single spacecraft is insufficient to map their 3D structure. THEMIS's five satellites were able to perform the feat.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm

I love science, and NASA just keeps doing cooler and cooler stuff. When I first read about how magnetic fields connecting th Earth and Sun explained how particles could accelerate after leaving the Sun, that made sense. Now it seems there is hard evidence for EM connections (giant magnetic ropes) between the magnetic earth and the Electromagentic sun.

The more I study the EM theories about the sun and the Universe, the more interesting it gets.

the total energy of the two-hour event at five hundred thousand billion (5 x 1014) Joules

That is one huge amount of EM energy. That it flows along "magnetic ropes" connecting the Sun and the Earth is just amazing. Not really surprising to some.

CONNECTION OF SUN'S AND EARTH'S MAGNETIC FIELDS PROVIDES ENERGY FOR AURORAS, SPACE WEATHER May 2000

Space physicists have made the first direct observations of the process that causes auroras and magnetic disturbances -- or space weather -- around the Earth. Settling a fifty-year-old debate, scientists have directly measured the transfer of energy from the solar wind into the magnetic space around Earth, or magnetosphere, and down to the atmosphere. Such events can affect radio communications, satellite operations, and the control of electric power systems on Earth.

Relying on observations collected by NASA's Polar spacecraft and Japan's Geotail spacecraft, scientists associated with the International Solar-Terrestrial Physics (ISTP) program have gathered the first direct evidence that a process known as magnetic reconnection occurs naturally in the Sun-Earth system. Until now, reconnection had only been observed under contrived conditions in a few physics laboratories.
http://istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/istp/news/0005/fullpr.html

The fight over this issue has been a long and contentious one among scientist. The next batch of discoveries from these new satellites is really interesting...

[Dancing David]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm
"THEMIS encountered its first magnetic rope on May 20, 2007," says Sibeck. "It was very large, about as wide as Earth, and located approximately 40,000 miles above Earth's surface in a region called the magnetopause." The magnetopause is where the solar wind and Earth's magnetic field meet and push against one another like sumo wrestlers locked in combat. There, the rope formed and unraveled in just a few minutes, providing a brief but significant conduit for solar wind energy. Other ropes quickly followed: "They seem to occur all the time," says Sibeck.


:)

:cool:

[Fnord]

Now if only there was a way to safely and effectively tap into the electric current to produce energy on Earth.

Preferable, something that does not involve pyramids, crystals, or tarot cards...

[technoextreme]

Now if only there was a way to safely and effectively tap into the electric current to produce energy on Earth.


It's called a solar cell.

[danielk]

Wow. Could that effect someday perhaps be used to transfer energy?

[robinson]

"The satellites have found evidence for magnetic ropes connecting Earth's upper atmosphere directly to the Sun,"

the total energy of the two-hour event at five hundred thousand billion (5 x 1014) Joules

500,000,000,000,000 Joules? Isn't that a lot of energy?

[technoextreme]

Wow. Could that effect someday perhaps be used to transfer energy?
Considering the fact that we can not even harness the energy of lightning the answer is a big no. Alsowhere will we transfer the energy? It only works with earth because it has an magnetic field.
500,000,000,000,000 Joules? Isn't that a lot of energy?
Too much to harness it. The only other force of nature that I can think of that comes close is lightning 500,000,000 joules which typically blows stuff up.

[Fnord]

Originally Posted by Fnord http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3244157#post3244157)
Now if only there was a way to safely and effectively tap into the electric current to produce energy on Earth.


It's called a solar cell.


No, I meant some way to tap directly into the current flow, without the intermediate photoemissive/photovoltaic steps.

[rcronk]

Why do they say things like "five hundred thousand billion" when they could just say "five hundred trillion"? Is it a scientific thing or are they just trying to dumb it down or what?

Cool articles though - magnetic ropes? Pretty cool. A sci-fi geek could probably crank out some good stuff based on that idea.

[Molinaro]

The sad thing about this is that people who think stars are powered by current flow between stars instead of gravitational compression will claim it as support for their ideas.

[technoextreme]

Why do they say things like "five hundred thousand billion" when they could just say "five hundred trillion"? Is it a scientific thing or are they just trying to dumb it down or what?

Cool articles though - magnetic ropes? Pretty cool. A sci-fi geek could probably crank out some good stuff based on that idea.
Well if they really wanted to be technical neither five hundred trillion or five hundred thousand billion would be right. I believe the right word would be 500 exajoules though it's a pretty odd occurance. No, I meant some way to tap directly into the current flow, without the intermediate photoemissive/photovoltaic steps.
No there is no way.

[ben m]

"The satellites have found evidence for magnetic ropes connecting Earth's upper atmosphere directly to the Sun,"

the total energy of the two-hour event at five hundred thousand billion (5 x 1014) Joules

500,000,000,000,000 Joules? Isn't that a lot of energy?

5e14 J over two hours (7200s) is 7e10 watts (70 gigawatts) ... about 0.4% of the power consumed by humans, or about the electricity used by the Philippenes. The Sun's total power, for comparison, is about 10^26 W, of which 10^17 W strike the Earth.

It's sort of a medium-large lot of power by Earth standards, but not a whole lot by astronomy standards.

[danielk]

5e14 J over two hours (7200s) is 7e10 watts (70 gigawatts)
Great Scot!

Sorry, couldn't resist. :p

[Davidlpf]

The sad thing about this is that people who think stars are powered by current flow between stars instead of gravitational compression will claim it as support for their ideas.

Don't I know it.

[Davidlpf]

I know scientist have known that it was charged particles from the sun interacting with the magnetosphere that caused the auroras, these twisted magnetic fields are just a new way for the particles to get here.

[robinson]

A popular misconception holds that auroras and space weather are caused when electrically charged particles from the Sun plunge directly into Earth's atmosphere near the magnetic poles. But in fact, the Sun provides the energy -- but not necessarily the particles -- to drive space weather activity around Earth. And rather than a direct trip from the solar atmosphere to Earth's poles, solar wind and storms from the Sun must pass through these small and elusive reconnection regions before they can stir up space weather.

"The magnetosphere acts like a great magnetic cocoon around the Earth," said Dr. Jack Scudder, a space physicist from the University of Iowa and principal investigator for the Hot Plasma Analyzer (HYDRA) on NASA's Polar spacecraft. "There are often times when the solar wind creates tears in this cocoon, allowing charged particles and energy from the Sun to enter the space around Earth. This tearing - reconnection - is what we directly observed with Polar."

Once these "tears" open up - scientists call them "reconnection regions" - the magnetic field of the solar wind becomes directly linked to the magnetosphere. Solar energy floods into the system, overloading and destabilizing it. The energy excites the particles already trapped around the Earth and stretches the magnetic tail like taut rubber bands, forcing reconnection to happen again -- this time inside Earth's space. As magnetic field lines on the night side snap and reconnect, they shoot energy stored in the tail down toward the auroral zones near the poles and into the radiation belts.

"When the solar wind and magnetospheric fields reconnect, it opens a valve or faucet that lets the solar wind energy cross the magnetopause and pour into the magnetosphere," said Dr. Jeffrey Hughes, chairman of the department of astronomy at Boston University. "Without reconnection, the magnetosphere would be a very benign place."
http://istp.gsfc.nasa.gov/istp/news/0005/fullpr.html

They are having to redraw the graphics that explain this stuff. The old view:
http://hpb.gsfc.nasa.gov/images/LWS-geospace-IT.jpg

The new view:
http://www.suntrek.org/images/stills/sun%20earth%20connection/Sun%20Earth%20magnetic%20connection.jpg

Fascinating.

[BeAChooser]

According to http://www.thunderbolts.info/webnews/121707electricsun.htm "The disconnect between astronomical theory and discovery is in full display in the recent NASA press release, "NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries about Northern Lights" (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm ). The report discusses the THEMIS spacecraft's recent observations of 'giant magnetic ropes that connect Earth's upper atmosphere to the Sun and explosions in the outskirts of Earth's magnetic field.' ... snip ... Magnetic "ropes"? This expression begs the question of how the fluid dynamics envisioned by NASA can explain a "rope-like" structure that twists and changes dynamically, and extends all the way from Earth back to the Sun. NASA scientists often use the phrase "flux ropes" to describe these twisted filamentary pathways traversed by charged particles. But to electrical engineers, such terminology reveals a deep confusion among astronomers struggling to comprehend unexpected electrical activity. Professor Donald E Scott, author of The Electric Sky, says, 'Ropes, of course, have beginnings and ends. Magnetic fields do not. So this use of language from NASA fails to explain anything, and is conceptually wrong as well as misleading.' ... snip ... The 'ropes' to which the investigators refer are commonly described in plasma Science as electrical 'Birkeland currents,' named after the aforementioned Kristian Birkeland. The rope-like structure is not just a curiosity; it is the structure taken by current flow due to the long-range attraction and short-range repulsion between current filaments. The "twisted magnetic fields" are simply the signature of the electric current flow. In plasma cosmology, these entwined plasma filaments act as transmission lines carrying 'field-aligned' currents across interplanetary and interstellar space."

The description by NASA (http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm ): "A 'magnetic rope"' is a twisted bundle of magnetic fields organized much like the twisted hemp of a mariner's rope" sounds like a description of Birkeland currents. This is highly suggestive evidence that there are currents flowing through interplanetary space to or from the sun.

http://scitation.aip.org/getabs/servlet/GetabsServlet?prog=normal&id=APCPCS000932000001000026000001 "Flux tubes in the fast and slow solar wind ... snip ... 6th Annual International Astrophysics Conference, Issue Date: August 28, 2007 ... snip ... "Recent studies suggest that flux-tube-like structures may exist in the solar wind. In this scenario, the solar wind plasma are confined in many individual flux tubes and plasma in these flux tubes move independently from each other. ... snip ... we analyze magnetic field data obtained from Ulysses spacecraft in both fast and slow solar wind, at various radii and latitudes. Our results show flux tubes exist in both the fast and the slow solar wind."

http://www.waterdropgraphics.com/plamaball.gif

Are mainstream astrophysicists too focused on their "reconnection" and "frozen-in magnetic fields" gnomes to see the truth that may be staring them in the face? :D

[robinson]

Have you looked at the new graphics? The "twisted ropes" connecting the sun and earth are way cool.

[shadron]

Too much to harness it. The only other force of nature that I can think of that comes close is lightning 500,000,000 joules which typically blows stuff up.

That's even more that 1.41 jiggawatts. Might it have use, perhaps, in a flux capacitor? One big enough for the Queen Mary?

[robinson]

Dude! You killed my thread!

[shadron]

Why do they say things like "five hundred thousand billion" when they could just say "five hundred trillion"? Is it a scientific thing or are they just trying to dumb it down or what?

Cool articles though - magnetic ropes? Pretty cool. A sci-fi geek could probably crank out some good stuff based on that idea.

It's a difference in counting between USA and Europe. Americans refer to billions where Europeans would say thousands of millions (10^9). Over there, a billion is a million millions (10^12). Think of the confusion that produces.


Heh, heh - I looked up billion on the Merriam Webster site and it says:

billion

Main Entry:
bil·lion Listen to the pronunciation of billion
Pronunciation:
\ˈbi(l)-yən\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
French, from bi- + -illion (as in million)
Date:
1834

1 : see number table [which did nothing for "billion" - shad]
2 : a very large number
— billion adjective
— bil·lionth Listen to the pronunciation of billionth \-yən(t)th\ adjective or noun

[shadron]

Dude! You killed my thread!

Sorry - didn't mean to.

[robinson]

I think the whole concept is just too frightening for most people to contemplate.

[Ziggurat]

That's even more that 1.41 jiggawatts.

Is that how your jirrlfriend told you how to pronounce it? :p

And I think it was 1.21 gigawatts, not 1.41. I'm not sure it's a good thing I caught the error without having to look it up.

[sol invictus]

I think the whole concept is just too frightening for most people to contemplate.

It's absolutely terrifying that anyone takes it seriously for even a moment...

[robinson]

THEMIS also has observed a number of small explosions in Earth's magnetic bow shock. "The bow shock is like the bow wave in front of a boat," explained Sibeck. "It is where the solar wind first feels the effects of Earth's magnetic field. Sometimes a burst of electrical current within the solar wind will hit the bow shock and—Bang! We get an explosion."

The THEMIS satellites are equipped with instruments that measure ions, electrons and electromagnetic radiation in space. The satellites will line up along the sun-Earth line next February to perform their key measurements. Researchers expect to observe, for the first time, the origin of substorm onsets in space and learn more about their evolution. An international team of scientists from the US, Canada, Western Europe, Russia and Japan will be contributing to the investigation over the next two years.
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2007/12/massive-magneti.html


"THEMIS encountered its first magnetic rope on May 20, 2007," says Sibeck. "It was very large, about as wide as Earth, and located approximately 40,000 miles above Earth's surface in a region called the magnetopause." The magnetopause is where the solar wind and Earth's magnetic field meet and push against one another like sumo wrestlers locked in combat. There, the rope formed and unraveled in just a few minutes, providing a brief but significant conduit for solar wind energy. Other ropes quickly followed: "They seem to occur all the time," says Sibeck.

THEMIS has also observed a number of relatively small explosions in Earth's magnetic bow shock. "The bow shock is like the bow wave in front of a boat," explains Sibeck. "It is where the solar wind first feels the effects of Earth's magnetic field." When a knot of magnetism within the solar wind hits the bow shock--"Bang!" he says. "We get an explosion."

The technical term for these explosions is "hot flow anomalies" or HFAs. HFAs boost the temperature of solar wind particles ten-fold (as high as 10 million degrees) and they can stop the solar wind dead its tracks. "This is no mean achievement considering the fact that the solar wind moves at supersonic speeds near a million miles per hour."

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/images/themis/hfa_strip2.gif
Above: A cartoon of a hot flow anomaly observed by THEMIS on July 4, 2007, and a computer simulation of the explosion. Credit: N. Omidi.

"Hot flow anomalies may not play a major role in energizing auroral substorms--they happen too infrequently, less than once a day," notes Jonathan Eastwood of the University of California, Berkeley, who is studying them. "Nevertheless they are of interest. This is a fundamental physical process that accelerates particles to high energies and we are delighted to be able to study it."

Powerful substorms, giant magnetic ropes, explosions that stop the solar wind in its tracks: "We have much more to learn about all these things," says Angelopoulos. "I can't wait to see what comes next."
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2007/11dec_themis.htm

Neither can I, neither can I.

[robinson]

Oh, and the Thunderbolt crowd has been quite gracious about it all, which is refreshing. Despite the heinous behavior of their critics, they didn't even gloat when once again, they turned out to be right.

http://www.thunderbolts.info/webnews/121707electricsun.htm

Or rather, Kristian Birkeland turned out to be right, again.

What a fascinating Universe.

[Wangler]

If I understand, the energies involved here are pretty minimal.

I don't think that the EU'ers can hang their hats on this, can they?

And, as the anti-EUers aren't in here throwing a hissy fit, this interesting news tidbit won't end up being a bone of contention.

[robinson]

I'm kind of glad the Plasma people VS the gravity/dark matter peoples are bashing it out over there, rather than in here.

According to the news from New Scientist.net on September 22nd, French scientists claimed that hidden extra dimensions are causing measurements of the strength of gravity at different locations on Earth to be affected by the planet's magnetic field. If the result is confirmed, it will be the first evidence for the existence of the hidden extra dimension.
Almost all measurements of G have used variations of the torsion balance technique pioneered by English scientist Cavendish 300 years ago. In 1982, a group reported the most precise measurement of G to date, which had an uncertainty of 0.0128%. Although this seems quite precise, the fractional uncertainty in G is thousands of times larger than those of other important fundamental constants. The more puzzling fact is the new values of G from measurements by respected research teams in Germany, New Zealand, and Russia disagree wildly. For example, a team from the German Institute of Standards led by W. Michaelis obtained a value for G that is 0.6% larger than the accepted value; a group from the University of Wuppertal in Germany led by Hinrich Meyer found a value that is 0.06% lower, and Mark Fitzgerald and collaborators at Measurement Standards Laboratory of New Zealand measured a value that is 0.1% lower. The Russian group found a curious space and time variation of G of up to 0.7%.

The gravity constant G, which describes the strength of the gravitational pull that bodies exert on each other, has interested physicists for over 300 years and, except for the speed of light, it has the longest history of measurements. Yet, it is the most poorly determined of the constants of nature. Currently, the two most accurate measurements have experimental errors of 1 part in 10,000, yet their values differ by 10 times that amount. So physicists are left with no idea of its absolute value.
http://www.pureinsight.org/pi/index.php?news=1148

Newton's constant, which describes the strength of the gravitational pull that bodies exert on each other, is the most poorly determined of the constants of nature. The two most accurate measurements have experimental errors of 1 part in 10,000, yet their values differ by 10 times that amount. So physicists are left with no idea of its absolute value.

Now Jean-Paul Mbelek and Marc Lachieze-Ray of the French Atomic Energy Commission near Paris say they can resolve the contradiction by taking into account the location of the labs where the experiments were carried out.

The pair suggest that electromagnetism and gravity influence one another enough for gravity's pull to be noticeably affected by the Earth's magnetic field.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn2814-earths-magnetic-field-boosts-gravity.html

I can't seem to find out if this has been resolved yet.

[Zeuzzz]

It would be interesting to see where all the mainstream astronomers are that predicted these immense Birkeland currents connecting all the bodies in the solar system.

I seem to remember Birkeland predicting this over a century ago. Maybe his Terrella experiment was closer to simulating the sun and all its EM characteristics than conventional opinion has accepted.

It would also be interesting to see what sort of effect these new found connections are thought to have on the orbits of planets, or other bodies in general. Maybe these EM connections between bodies in space has something to do with gravity? or how it works? how gravity actually works is still a bit of a mystery, and these new findings may indicate a further Electromagnetic connection.

And it seems the next logical step would be to find the currents connecting the suns poles to the rest of the galaxy. Maybe they should start by examining more closely the polar wind or the coronal hole. (The phrase solar wind is a misnomer; a flow of ions constitutes an electrical current, not a wind. We do not speak of an electric ‘wind’ flowing in our wires at home)


Radio waves, ultra violet radiation and polar jets are all known to emanate from the suns poles. There certainly seems to be something going on there. There have been many recent discoveries by SOHO and other spacecraft that were not expected or predicted, but seem to be consistent with the ES model, mainly the polar jets.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/307721

We analyze polar jets observed by the Large‐Angle Spectrometric Coronagraph (LASCO) instrument aboard the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory. Although ballistic trajectories have some success in fitting the observed kinematic motions, there is substantial evidence that gravity alone is not regulating the movement of the jets. First of all, the August 5 events appear to exhibit slight accelerations rather than decelerations above 3 R. Second, all the events studied here have very similar velocities, suggesting that by the time the jets reach the LASCO field of view, the jets have been incorporated into the ambient solar wind.


If you look at pics of the corona, it certainly has a different texture at the polar regions, and numerous thin filaments seem to occur at the poles;

external image (http://www.mreclipse.com/SEreports/TSE1998reports/image/98TSEspenak1.jpg)

However, these solar currents should become visible when they're in a system that is far more energetic than ours, just like the star in the centre of the crab nebula

external image (http://imgsrc.hubblesite.org/hu/db/2002/24/images/a/formats/web.jpg)


Polar holes are also another good indication of different than normal activity occuring at the poles.

http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/abs/10.1086/305756
In order to address two of the principal scientific objectives of the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO), studies of the heating mechanisms of the solar corona and the acceleration processes of the solar wind, we deduce electron temperatures, densities, and ion velocities in plumes and interplume regions of polar coronal holes using ultraviolet observations from SUMER (Solar Ultraviolet Measurements of Emitted Radiation) on SOHO.


So they too have detected the radiation coming out of the poles. They are still stuck on the subject of the heating and acceleration of the solar corona, if only they would see that the sun eminates an electrical field, it would not be so mysterious to them.

And another;

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Hinode_New_Insights_On_The_Origin_Of_Solar_Wind_99 9.html

This image clearly shows an x-ray jet launching plasma out into the solar system from the Sun's north polar coronal hole. This image was taken 10 January 2007 by Hinode's X-ray telescope.

[Zeuzzz]

It's absolutely terrifying that anyone takes it seriously for even a moment...



Takes what seriously? THEMSIS observing immense currents connecting the Earth to the sun? Japans Hinode spacecraft independantly confirming it? NASA pulishing many stories on it?

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themis/auroras/northern_lights_multi.html
http://www.nasa.gov/images/content/203795main_FluxPower_400.jpg

(NASA public source picture)

Sol thinks that this is all fake! :D

I guess if you didn't predict something, or you have argued against the existance of something previously, you still wont accept that it does actually exist, even if it is staring you in the face. Thats the curse of knowledge for you. (or he's already put everyone who was expecting this from plasma cosmology principles on ignore, and so he really cant see it :D )

[Dancing David]

So they too have detected the radiation coming out of the poles. They are still stuck on the subject of the heating and acceleration of the solar corona, if only they would see that the sun eminates an electrical field, it would not be so mysterious to them.




Hi Zeuzz, what might be considered a mystery is this.

What numbers do you have, to specifically address your statement here?

So the sun has an electrical field, sort of, depending on the defintion.

Please show how you go from that to the temperature of the corona, unless you also consider some manistream theories, they do put tnumbers to thiers.

So where are you equations and how do they apply to your statement?

Thanks

:)

[Reality Check]

It would be interesting to see where all the mainstream astronomers are that predicted these immense Birkeland currents connecting all the bodies in the solar system.

I seem to remember Birkeland predicting this over a century ago. Maybe his Terrella experiment was closer to simulating the sun and all its EM characteristics than conventional opinion has accepted.

Birkeland was a really smart scientist. I suspect that he would be appalled at the abuse to which plasma "cosmologists" and electric universe nuts put his work.

Zeuzz. you seem ignorant of how science works. Scientists are always coming up with theories of how things work. Scientists are always speculating on new mechanisms to explain existing phenomena and to predict new phenomena. There is no way to test every prediction systematically. Luckily there are people out there that like looking at things, e.g. astronomers.


It would also be interesting to see what sort of effect these new found connections are thought to have on the orbits of planets, or other bodies in general. Maybe these EM connections between bodies in space has something to do with gravity? or how it works? how gravity actually works is still a bit of a mystery, and these new findings may indicate a further Electromagnetic connection.

It will be ignored because these small (by the standards of astronomy) connections have no effect. If not then I am sure that you can provide us with the calculations proving the effect is there.


And it seems the next logical step would be to find the currents connecting the suns poles to the rest of the galaxy. Maybe they should start by examining more closely the polar wind or the coronal hole. (The phrase solar wind is a misnomer; a flow of ions constitutes an electrical current, not a wind. We do not speak of an electric ‘wind’ flowing in our wires at home)

These "currents connecting the suns poles to the rest of the galaxy" are a figment of the of plasma "cosmologists". If they were of any size then they would have been detected by now (not only from the sun but from every other star).


Radio waves, ultra violet radiation and polar jets are all known to emanate from the suns poles. There certainly seems to be something going on there. There have been many recent discoveries by SOHO and other spacecraft that were not expected or predicted, but seem to be consistent with the ES model, mainly the polar jets.
Lots of known and local phenomena.

[robinson]

... These "currents connecting the suns poles to the rest of the galaxy" are a figment of the of plasma "cosmologists". If they were of any size then they would have been detected by now (not only from the sun but from every other star).

That ignorant belief is a hallmark of bad science.

"If they were of any size then they would have been detected by now" is just dumb. Magnetism and electric currents are very difficult to detect at a distance. Almost impossible in some cases.

The fact that we couldn't detect a bundle of magnetic "ropes", 93 million miles long, and with a diameter larger than the earth, that is right there, right in front of us, tells you how difficult it is.

History shows us one thing, skeptics that talk like that never discover anything. And it appears, they can never admit they were wrong as well.

[Reality Check]

That ignorant belief is a hallmark of bad science.

"If they were of any size then they would have been detected by now" is just dumb. Magnetism and electric currents are very difficult to detect at a distance. Almost impossible in some cases.

The fact that we couldn't detect a bundle of magnetic "ropes", 93 million miles long, and with a diameter larger than the earth, that is right there, right in front of us, tells you how difficult it is.

History shows us one thing, skeptics that talk like that never discover anything. And it appears, they can never admit they were wrong as well.
You are correct. I should have said that their effect on our sun and other stars wold have been detected by now if they were of any measurable size. So the real question is how big are they?

As ben m said about the THEMIS observation
5e14 J over two hours (7200s) is 7e10 watts (70 gigawatts) ... about 0.4% of the power consumed by humans, or about the electricity used by the Philippenes. The Sun's total power, for comparison, is about 10^26 W, of which 10^17 W strike the Earth.
So this magnetic rope contains about 10-16 of the power output of the sun.

[robinson]

I can imagine eventually we will have a better understanding of the electromagnetic sun. Jupiter and Io have a way cooler dance going on.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_%28moon%29#Interaction_with_Jupiter.27s_magneto sphere

Check out this rendering. Fantastic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jupiter_magnetosphere_schematic.jpg

The stuff happening with that electromagnetic interaction is just wild. That Alfvén wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfven_wave) stuff is something.

[soylent]

70 GW isn't much. The world consumed an average of 1.7 TW of electric power in 2001(12 TW total power consumption) and Earth recieves 174 PW of EM radiation from the sun.

[Zeuzzz]

Hi Zeuzz, what might be considered a mystery is this.

What numbers do you have, to specifically address your statement here?

So the sun has an electrical field, sort of, depending on the defintion.

Please show how you go from that to the temperature of the corona, unless you also consider some manistream theories, they do put tnumbers to thiers.

So where are you equations and how do they apply to your statement?

Thanks

:)


Hi David.

If you could find the information on the acceleration of the solar wind that is not explained by current models (currently over twenty completely different models have been proposed) and calculate the magnitude of the E-field resulting from the double layer that would be required above the suns surface to account for the anomalous acceleration. The formation of double layers is not perfectly spherical however, so it gets a bit complex.

I think that the initial acceleration is from pretty much stationary (as the convection of the sun is quite a slow process) to 400-800m/s just outside the surface.

You know the mass of the proton, the charge, the gravitational pull of the suns gravity, and so the force needed from the double layer surrounding the sun could be worked out from the acceleration of the solar wind. I just dont know any of the distances this acceleration occurs over, and i dont even think this is known, the true origin of the solar wind is considered a bit of mystery.

[Dancing David]

Hi David.

If you could find the information on the acceleration of the solar wind that is not explained by current models (currently over twenty completely different models have been proposed) and calculate the magnitude of the E-field resulting from the double layer that would be required above the suns surface to account for the anomalous acceleration. The formation of double layers is not perfectly spherical however, so it gets a bit complex.

I think that the initial acceleration is from pretty much stationary (as the convection of the sun is quite a slow process) to 400-800m/s just outside the surface.

You know the mass of the proton, the charge, the gravitational pull of the suns gravity, and so the force needed from the double layer surrounding the sun could be worked out from the acceleration of the solar wind. I just dont know any of the distances this acceleration occurs over, and i dont even think this is known, the true origin of the solar wind is considered a bit of mystery.


Thanks for the answer.

[Zeuzzz]

Looks like they've just recently found the same type of twisting structure at the poles of Venus.

Download: HI-RES GIF (Size: 914 kb) (http://www.esa.int/images/5_VIRTIS_polar_vortex_composite_H.jpg)

This beautiful set of infrared images of the south polar vortex at Venus was obtained by the Visible and Infrared Thermal Imaging Spectrometer (VIRTIS) on board ESA’s Venus Express. The images, taken during four different observations performed over three orbits in August 2007, show variations in the shape of the vortex and also provide clues on the temperature variation in the clouds. They were obtained at a distance of about 66 000 km from the planet’s surface, at wavelengths of 3.8 micrometres (top left, down left, top right) and 5 micrometres (bottom right).


http://www.esa.int/images/5_VIRTIS_polar_vortex_composite_L.jpg


I wonder if these ones connect it directly to sun, like the auroral currents recently discovered by Themis on Earth do.

[Dancing David]

The aurora on Saturn are way cool!

[robinson]

Venus doesn't have much of a magnetic field. Those are atmospheric events, not magnetic. I think.