Pope Bendict's Nazi past (split thread, new topic)

[Herzblut]

It's nice, it rolls off the tongue. But it's lacking a certain something. "Santorum" is a single word, and the moron's last name. I guess we can adopt "Nazi Ratzi" until a better one comes along.
Yeah, that fits reality:

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — membership being legally required after December 1939 — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith. In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life_.281927.E2.80.931951. 29

To your favor I assume you're Yankees not knowing what they talk about.

[qayak]

Yeah, that fits reality:

Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth — membership being legally required after December 1939 — but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith. In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI#Early_life_.281927.E2.80.931951. 29

To your favor I assume you're Yankees not knowing what they talk about.

Wiki brags about his family ties being anti-nazi but then goes on to say of Joseph Ratzinger: "There is no evidence, however, that Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., was ever arrested for anti-Nazi tendencies. He continued to serve in the police even after such events as the Night of the Long Knives and the passing of the Nuremberg Laws."

In 1936, Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., became a member of the Ordnungspolizei after all the police forces of Nazi Germany were incorporated into a national police force.

According to Wiki, on Georg Ratzinger: ". . .but was also responsible for shaping anti-Jewish attitudes among 19th century German Catholics."

There is little evidence that the Ratzingers were anti-nazi and some to suggest they were at best indifferent and at worst, collaborators.

[Herzblut]

Wiki brags about his family ties being anti-nazi but then goes on to say of Joseph Ratzinger: "There is no evidence, however, that Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., was ever arrested for anti-Nazi tendencies. He continued to serve in the police even after such events as the Night of the Long Knives and the passing of the Nuremberg Laws." In 1936, Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., became a member of the Ordnungspolizei after all the police forces of Nazi Germany were incorporated into a national police force.

So what?


According to Wiki, on Georg Ratzinger: ". . .but was also responsible for shaping anti-Jewish attitudes among 19th century German Catholics."

You mean this Bavarian politician who died in 1899? So?


There is little evidence that the Ratzingers were anti-nazi and some to suggest they were at best indifferent and at worst, collaborators.
Evidence for your flapdoodle, please!

The same article saying that Joseph Ratzinger Sr. (father of da papa, btw) was a rural policeman in a little village (wow!) also states:

Various sources state that the Ratzingers' views towards the National Socialist German Workers Party caused the family some hardship, including the family having to move several times in the 1930s.

... even late into World War II, most sources agree that Joseph Ratzinger, Sr. remained sternly anti-Nazi.

The majority of media sources later made it very clear that Joseph Ratzinger, Sr., had never been a member of the Nazi Party and had been known in the 1930s as an anti-Nazi sympathizer. The membership of his sons in the Hitler Youth was also dismissed as innocent, since by the 1940s membership in the Hitler Youth was mandatory for all young German men under the age of 18.

Herzblut

[qayak]

The same article saying that Joseph Ratzinger was a rural policeman in a little village (wow!)

Actually, it says that he became a member of the national police force in 1936. A police force controlled by the Nazi party and which included the SS, Gestapo, etc. It also says that he maintained this position until his retirement with little or no trouble. Not something you would expect from a staunch anti-nazi, in Nazi Germany.

However, I suspect that he was like the majority of Germans, who had more of a political disagreement with nazism than a moral/ethical disagreement. It was the indoctrination of the German masses to hate jews that led to the holocaust. That indoctrination was done partly through the works of his uncle.

Further proof that indoctrination of people over a period of time can lead to almost any atrocity.

[Herzblut]

Actually, it says that he became a member of the national police force in 1936.

Simply by the fact that all police forces were pressed under a single organization. This kind of process is called "Gleichschaltung" and was typical for Nazi Germany.


A police force controlled by the Nazi party and which included the SS, Gestapo, etc.

He was working for the Orpo, which had nothing to do with the Security Police (Sipo) organizations. The Orpo was just the regular police force.


It also says that he maintained this position until his retirement with little or no trouble.

And without any promotion from which he was excluded completely by never being a member of the NSDAP.


However, I suspect that he ...

(text cut by me)
I was actually not asking you for further wild speculation but for evidence. I take it that you haven't any. Nothing whatsoever to substanciate your ridiculous claim that the Ratzingers were "at best indifferent and at worst, collaborators".

Herzblut

[qayak]

Simply by the fact that all police forces were pressed under a single organization. This kind of process is called "Gleichschaltung" and was typical for Nazi Germany.

Yes, they were brought under the direct control of the government. Which, one would think, made it even more likely he would be identified for anti-nazi behaviour. He wasn't. Apparently, his anti-nazi behaviour was so subtle that he practiced it openly, under direct nazi scutiny and no one saw it! Those nazis were dumb weren't they?

He was working for the Orpo, which had nothing to do with the Security Police (Sipo) organizations. The Orpo was just the regular police force.

No one said otherwise.

And without any promotion from which he was excluded completely by never being a member of the NSDAP

Evidence please.

It is more likely that it was his age that prevented his promotion. He retired one year after the formation of the national police force. He was not forced out or discriminated against, at least, it doesn't say that anywhere I have read. He retired at the expected time and lived unbothered throughout the Nazi regime. Seems kind of odd for such an anti-nazi hero.

I was actually not asking you for further wild speculation but for evidence. I take it that you haven't any. Nothing whatsoever to substanciate your ridiculous claim that the Ratzingers were "at best indifferent and at worst, collaborators".

Just the evidence that you cited and claimed to be accurate. Are you saying your source was not accurate? You see, it was not my wild speculation, it was the evidence that pointed to this logical conclusion.