Weightlifting Cures Masturbation !!

[drzeus99]

While watching a new HBO documentary, called "Hard As Nails", which just
came out yesterday on HBO On Demand, I found out something that I never
knew before.

http://www.hbo.com/apps/hodschedule/hod/details.do?FID=PMRS103593


According to this preacher, Justin Fatica, a 25 year old former tough kid from NJ, it seems that weightlifting is a "cure" for masturbation. Now, I never knew
that masturbation was something that needed to be "cured", never crossed
my mind.

It seems that preacher Justin, after having a priest tell him many years ago to
do weightlifting as "penance" for his sins, came to the conclusion that it was
a great cure for his masturbation.

I really feel sorry for kids like this, who are shamed as young children into
thinking that masturbation is a "sin". This type of thinking really screws with
kids minds, makes sex a dirty word. They are brainwashed into feeling
ashamed about perfectly natural, and acceptable, human feelings and natural
reaction to these feelings.

Now, that's a problem indeed, but what makes something like this type of
thinking even more problematic is that when these kids get constantly
preached to, it's very possible that they'll just blindly buy into whatever
they're told. This brainwashing starts at a young age, when the mind is
completely impressionable, and it starts the person on a path of non critical
thinking.

When someone raised in a background like this gets to their late teens and
decides to "give themselves over to the lord" (like Mr Fatica), it becomes all
the harder for that person to ever be freed from their clouded mind.

They openly "laugh" at skeptics and atheists/agnostics and think "we're" the fools who just don't get it. This troubles me deeply. Very deeply.

I'd say Richard Dawkins hit it right on the mark when he says that children
shouldn't be labeled as a "Christian child", or "Muslim child", or "Jewish child".

It really is, IMHO, dangerous to raise children with religious beliefs. Religion is
mysterious enough and hard to fully comprehend by adults. Children don't
have the mental faculties to use critical thinking, reasoning, and logic. It's
just not there. Because of this, children will blindly believe almost anything
and everything as being the truth, or factual.

And why shouldn't they. In just about all other cases, parents and teachers
ARE teaching children "truths" and "facts". A child's mind can't discriminate
between facts/truth and "hmm...I'm PRETTY SURE it's true", especially when
religious beliefs are grouped together with scientific facts and theories.

Why..why can't parents be smart enough to realize that they'd be teaching
their children a DIFFERENT religion if they (the parents) had been born in
a different part of the world where the majority believes a different religion.

Why can't they understand this. It's only because of geography, the religion
of the parent's parents, and (to some extent), WHEN, in human history they
were born. It's not that complicated. Not that hard to figure out.

I know I got off my own topic, but it all ties in with religious beliefs and the
harm it can cause.

Any opinions? Anyone? Bueller?.....Bueller?.....Bueller?

[X]

Is this bodybuilding-style weightlifting, or the actual sport?

If it's the sport, then bully for them for providing us with another lifter.
And regardless of which it is: Boo on the mental manipulation.

[drzeus99]

;3258145']Is this bodybuilding-style weightlifting, or the actual sport?

If it's the sport, then bully for them for providing us with another lifter.
And regardless of which it is: Boo on the mental manipulation.


Nah..not for the sport. His sport might be getting whacked in the back
with a metal folding chair (to show other young kids that jesus loves them,
and so does this kid preacher, who'se willing to get a metal chair pummeling
to show them just how much he loves them.)

I kid you not...I can't make this juicy stuff up ;)

The weightlifting he does was just something a priest thought would be good for him to do. Basically to keep his mind on doing something "positive" for
himself. The priest asked him to lift weights for 6 months at 3X a week to
repent for his sins. I guess the priest thought it was good for the kid to do to
maybe give him something to accomplish, hoping it would make him feel good about himself. For that reason, I can't fault the priest. Some dopey kids need
a LOT of motivation to do anything productive, and it looks like this kid was
once a trouble making prick, according to the documentary.

[Silentknight]

The belief among the religious that masturbation is sinful has a biblical basis in Genesis 38 with the story of Onan. As usual though, their interpretation is way off. The story was about an ancient custom known as levirate duty, which you can read more about in Dt 25 and Ru 4:5. If a married man died before fathering a male heir, then his brother (the woman's brother in-law) was required to sleep with the wife in order to produce a son. However the son would legally belong to the dead man, rather than his biological father, and so the son would inherit the dead man's estate. In Onan's case, he realized that the son would not be his, so he pulled out and Yahweh whacked him for refusing to fulfill his duties. Later on in Dt 25:8-9, a provision is mentioned by which if the brother in-law refuses, the wife may remove one of his shoes and spit in his face (rather than God killing him).

In other words, there is nothing wrong with masturbation, in the bible or otherwise. The bible says absolutely nothing about it. It just sounds to me like this preacher believed he could replace one repetitive strenuous arm motion with another.

[drzeus99]

Hmmm..... A brother's duty is to have sex with the wife of his deceased brother.
And THAT'S OK? And masturbation is "bad".

Wow..talk about screwed up priorities. I don't think this religion could be more
ridiculous if you tried. With all the bibles contradictions, it's amazing that people
can actually still claim that they believe it all to be either:
A) god's words
or
2) Inspired by god

Either way, if the bible were to be written today and handed in for
a grading in college, it would no doubt be graded with a BIG FAT "F"
(FAILURE, for those in countries with different grading systems).

[sinclairmcevoy]

Try to keep in mind when the bible was written. You can't compare the way things were done 2000 years ago with how it is today. Many people try to take it all literally as well. Believers and skeptics alike seem to only pick the parts that suit their argument.

[ntropy]

Sinclairmcevoy, are you suggesting that people didn't masturbate 2,000 years ago?

It doesn't matter when the Bible was written, it's worthlessness is timeless.

[ninjamessiah]

I weight lift from time to time, especially when I don't have a girlfriend. I tend to be inclined to masturbate less so as to not waste all of that protein, but from my higher protein diet and the rigorous exercise I become more virile and want to do it more. Now I just need to find someone who'll love me as I get fat and I won't have to worry about it.

I don't think it's all wrong to raise kids with a religion, depending on the religion. I'm going to raise my kids Zen Buddhist. No big scary parental deity constantly looking over your shoulder, ready to cast you into an eternal unimaginable suffering if you ignore him(because he loves you so much). It's all about living in the moment, self discipline, and knowing yourself. People tend to get dumber when they group together under an identity, and since Christianity is one of the world's biggest religions....

[V23]

This is the gayest thread I have ever read . . .

[fuelair]

The belief among the religious that masturbation is sinful has a biblical basis in Genesis 38 with the story of Onan. As usual though, their interpretation is way off. The story was about an ancient custom known as levirate duty, which you can read more about in Dt 25 and Ru 4:5. If a married man died before fathering a male heir, then his brother (the woman's brother in-law) was required to sleep with the wife in order to produce a son. However the son would legally belong to the dead man, rather than his biological father, and so the son would inherit the dead man's estate. In Onan's case, he realized that the son would not be his, so he pulled out and Yahweh whacked him for refusing to fulfill his duties. Later on in Dt 25:8-9, a provision is mentioned by which if the brother in-law refuses, the wife may remove one of his shoes and spit in his face (rather than God killing him).

In other words, there is nothing wrong with masturbation, in the bible or otherwise. The bible says absolutely nothing about it. It just sounds to me like this preacher believed he could replace one repetitive strenuous arm motion with another.
I've been pointing that one out for years, hasn't stopped any of the religious who can't even figure out the words in a simple, straightforward coitus interruptus story ending with Dog whacking him off.:D

[Jeff Corey]

Cuming to your neighborhood theatre soon , Onan the Barbarian. See him loot, slay and spill his seed into the sand.
"I'll be Bach'"

[shadron]

You can't be serious about knowing this for the first time, can you? This problem has been with Christianity for it's entire history. Christianity surely can't be said to be intuitive or instinctive; you have to really try to get it, particularly the sophisticated "modern" religions. Indoctrination starts as an infact, and goes on through to the grave. This is the driving reason behind the Intelligent Design voodoo - scratch the "Wedge Document" and you'll read "protect our children from anything that doesn't support our religion".

The Jesuits have a saying: "Give me a boy for his first seven years, and I'll give you the man." As for the sex, W K Kellogg had the perfect cure for teenage impropriety - corn flakes. The rest is history.

[arthwollipot]

This is the gayest thread I have ever read . . .You mean "stupidest", don't you? Gay means stupid, right?

[V23]

You mean "stupidest", don't you? Gay means stupid, right?

Yea, something like that . . .

I mean, come on. A preacher, lead by a Catholic Priest as a child, to do weightlifting as pentance for masterbation . . .

Sounds like the tag line for a gay porn film.

[arthwollipot]

I didn't get the impression that the penance was for masturbation. The penance was for his (unspecified) sins, and the guy doing the weightlifting was the one who decided that it was a cure for masturbation.

And sorry for calling you on the "gay" thing. It's a pet peeve of mine that people frequently say "that's so gay" when they really mean "that's so stupid".

[V23]

no, I meant . ."That is so Gay."

[V23]

I mean . . .the bloody thing is called, "Hard as Nails" :eye-poppi

[arthwollipot]

Yes, I get what you mean now. And I can see your point. On the surface, it appears gayer than Turing.

[drzeus99]

I didn't get the impression that the penance was for masturbation. The penance was for his (unspecified) sins, and the guy doing the weightlifting was the one who decided that it was a cure for masturbation.



You are correct, sir.

[V23]

then I sit corrected . . .

[SomeGuy]

Man, if masterbation is wrong, I don't want to be right.

[alfaniner]

Man, if masterbation is wrong, I don't want to be right.

Well, your spelling of it isn't right, if that's any consolation.

[alfaniner]

Man, if masterbation is wrong, I don't want to be right.

But then, the left is a whole 'nother experience...

[m_huber]

Hmmm..... A brother's duty is to have sex with the wife of his deceased brother.
And THAT'S OK? And masturbation is "bad".


In defense of this seemingly bizarre idea, the idea that is considered bad here is really "a man refuses to give his deceased brother an heir." Masturbation serves no societal purpose (aside from relaxation, I suppose), and it would be quite easy for superstitious ideas to develop around that idea.

[arthwollipot]

Agreed. Inheritance then was a lot more important that it is now. It was absolutely imperative that a man's inheritance not go to a woman.

[V23]

I wonder what the church felt about the clit, as it being the only physical aspect of either male or female that had no other purpose other than sex, (in some form or another).

[arthwollipot]

In some cases they sliced it off.

[ponderingturtle]

Nah..not for the sport. His sport might be getting whacked in the back
with a metal folding chair (to show other young kids that jesus loves them,
and so does this kid preacher, who'se willing to get a metal chair pummeling
to show them just how much he loves them.)

Wow no masterbation and beating with a chair? That is kinky!

[ponderingturtle]

This is the gayest thread I have ever read . . .

That sounds like a challange.

[sophia8]

Sinclairmcevoy, are you suggesting that people didn't masturbate 2,000 years ago?

It doesn't matter when the Bible was written, it's worthlessness is timeless.He's not suggesting any such thing. He's just pointing out that things like the rules in Leviticus were specifically formulated for a Middle-Eastern tribal society around 1500BC. The "impregnate your dead brother's wife" rule was to ensure that the property that the widow had inherited didn't pass out of the dead man's family.
It's the fundie dimwits who think the story has anything to do with masturbation.

[Darth Rotor]

But then, the left is a whole 'nother experience...
On a ship at sea, the definition of "infidelity" is where the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. ;)

I guess that has changed in the US Navy now, given the co-ed crews on ships, for some people. For others, it's the whip sock or testes azures.

DR

[sophia8]

I weight lift from time to time, especially when I don't have a girlfriend. I tend to be inclined to masturbate less so as to not waste all of that protein, There is very little protein in semen:
Semen does contain protein, but the amount you ejaculate is negligible compared to the total amount your body takes in. Eat an extra peanut or two and you've more than made up for the protein "loss" from one ejaculation. (http://www.jackinworld.com/qa/qasem.html)
The amount of protein found in seminal fluid is very small, and estimated at only about 6mg. Your standard three-ounce pork chop has about 24g (http://www.barnard.edu/wwoman/qanda/protect/protein.html)

[Bikewer]

I can only say that I'm happy to have given up both weightlifting and Christianity.

In fact, I believe it was the church's ideas on "self abuse" that led me down to path to atheism....

[This Guy]

I may try this, if I can find some one-handed barbells.....



:D

[Thurkon]

Although not mentioned specifically as a sin, is not lust itself mentioned time and again as a Biblical sin? Would masturbation not fall under this greater sin?

Not that I care one way or the other...

[Bikewer]

To get (only slightly) serious for a moment, it was fairly common in primitive societies to believe that a man had only so much "essential bodily fluid" per lifetime. For such people, with a high death rate in general and always worried about war, famine, etc., "wasting" this finite resource would be a bad idea.
Essentially, limiting the population potential.....

Why various religions should continue to cling to this primitive idea is of course another question...

[ponderingturtle]

To get (only slightly) serious for a moment, it was fairly common in primitive societies to believe that a man had only so much "essential bodily fluid" per lifetime. For such people, with a high death rate in general and always worried about war, famine, etc., "wasting" this finite resource would be a bad idea.
Essentially, limiting the population potential.....

Why various religions should continue to cling to this primitive idea is of course another question...

The thing is that they also had views of the importance and requirements for men to release enough of their fluids to prevent harmful build ups.

It was not uncommon for a view that men must have a certain amount of sex to remain healthy, this was an position used to support the practice of prostitution.

[sinclairmcevoy]

Sinclairmcevoy, are you suggesting that people didn't masturbate 2,000 years ago?

It doesn't matter when the Bible was written, it's worthlessness is timeless.I'm not suggesting that at all. What I'm suggesting is that some things that were done 2000 years ago (like marrying your dead brother's wife) are not done now.
People have been cranking their wanks for longer than 2000 years I'm sure.
The bible does have some good points too ya know. Have you ever read the ten commandments? They are a guide to clean living. Is that worthless to you?

[JimBenArm]

I took up masturbation as a cure for weightlifting. Turned out, I combined the two into one!

[sophia8]

The thing is that they also had views of the importance and requirements for men to release enough of their fluids to prevent harmful build ups.

It was not uncommon for a view that men must have a certain amount of sex to remain healthy, this was an position used to support the practice of prostitution.I've heard a story that the head of the Kennedy clan believed that daily ejaculation was essential to male health, and taught that idea to his sons; hence the libidinous behaviour of the male Kennedys. And I once had a father-in-law who seriously believed that preventing ejaculation in any way (including via a condom) would harm his health.

[ponderingturtle]

I've heard a story that the head of the Kennedy clan believed that daily ejaculation was essential to male health, and taught that idea to his sons; hence the libidinous behaviour of the male Kennedys. And I once had a father-in-law who seriously believed that preventing ejaculation in any way (including via a condom) would harm his health.

The problem them comes into it when you add that to a prohibition on masturbation. I guess it only counts if you ejaculate in a woman.

[Silentknight]

Not essential, but it doesn't hurt, and the current medical view is that it might even help.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/masturba1.htm

Maybe if those religious folk were to masturbate every so often, they wouldn't be so uptight, and they might even feel better afterwards. :D
The bible does have some good points too ya know. Have you ever read the ten commandments? They are a guide to clean living. Is that worthless to you?
Actually yes. One does not need an ancient list of rules in order to know the difference between right and wrong. The ten commandments are quite barbaric if you look up the corresponding divinely ordained punishments for each one. But that's a different topic altogether.

[Irony]

I'm not suggesting that at all. What I'm suggesting is that some things that were done 2000 years ago (like marrying your dead brother's wife) are not done now.
People have been cranking their wanks for longer than 2000 years I'm sure.
The bible does have some good points too ya know. Have you ever read the ten commandments? They are a guide to clean living. Is that worthless to you?

Have you ever read the ten commandments? Only four of them fall under the "guide to clean living" label, and they're so obvious you hardly need a book to tell you. Of the remaining six: three are about how God is so awesome you should just go on and on about how awesome he is, two might be decent ideas under circumstances but quite stupid under others, and one is just stupid no matter how you look at it.

[fuelair]

Weightlifting Cures Masturbation !!



Especially if you drop the weights in just the right place.

[Achán hiNidráne]

They are a guide to clean living. Is that worthless to you?

Well, let's see (Exodus 20: 2-17):

2 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; 3 Do not have any other gods before Me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the iniquity of parents, to the third and the fourth generation of those who reject me,
6 but showing steadfast love to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
7 You shall not make wrongful use of the name of the Lord your God, for the Lord will not acquit anyone who misuses his name.
8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and consecrated it.
The first four have NOTHING to do with morality or "clean living." It's just Hebrew religious propaganda: "Worship Yahweh and do so in this way... OR ELSE!"

12 Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.
Does that include abusive parents that treat their kids like crap? I don't think they deserve to be "honored."


13 You shall not murder.
14 You shall not commit adultery.
15 You shall not steal.
16 You shall not bear false witness against your neighbour.
OK, I'm with you so far. However, societies that predated or had no contact with the angry, egotistical, bigoted "God" of Abraham were able to figure out that murder, fooling around on your spouse (unless your lucky enough to be in a open marriage), theft, and lying are bad things. Given that, what makes this variation so damn special?


17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.Wait, it's evil for me to want the same cool stuff as my neighbor? Why is that "immoral?"

So, we have six completely useless commandments and four no-brainers. That seems pretty damn worthless to me.

[arthwollipot]

It was not uncommon for a view that men must have a certain amount of sex to remain healthy, this was an position used to support the practice of prostitution.I can think of a few other positions which...


No. Won't go there. Sorry.

[Modified]

I wonder what the church felt about the clit, as it being the only physical aspect of either male or female that had no other purpose other than sex, (in some form or another).

The only one? What about nipples on men?

[drzeus99]

To get (only slightly) serious for a moment, it was fairly common in primitive societies to believe that a man had only so much "essential bodily fluid" per lifetime. For such people, with a high death rate in general and always worried about war, famine, etc., "wasting" this finite resource would be a bad idea.
Essentially, limiting the population potential.....

Why various religions should continue to cling to this primitive idea is of course another question...


I can see what they were attempting to get at with their reasoning.
However, for males, if they didn't masturbate (or having intercourse) to ejaculate, then they'd still be losing this precious "life fluid" through nocturnal emissions. So, just runnin a batch here and there would cancel out the loss from masturbation by the gains caused by the cessation of the nocturnal emissions. You'd a figured that some ancient masturbation loving elder would've tried to argue against that point, and at least argued for giving a "thumbs up" to the occasional cranky cranky ;)

[jjramsey]

Wait, it's evil for me to want the same cool stuff as my neighbor? Why is that "immoral?"

The obvious gist of that commandment is that it dealing with the neighbor's actual stuff, not the stuff just like what the neighbor has. Did you not notice that "neighbor's wife" was in the list of the neighbor's possessions? It's not as if you can go buy a duplicate of someone's wife. Buy a wife, yes, since these are the bad old days of treating women like chattel, but there wasn't cloning in those bad old days.

[Cello Man]

I lift weights three times a week. I don't do it as a competitive sport, I just want to put a little more muscle on myself and improve my overall health and fitness.

One thing I have learned is that resistance training releases a lot of hormones into your system, not the least of which is testosterone. And with that running even higher than normal...well...certain other needs have to be taken care of, lest I go insane.

Weightlifing is a cure for masturbation like liquid oxygen is a flame retardant.

[Silentknight]

I can see what they were attempting to get at with their reasoning.
However, for males, if they didn't masturbate (or having intercourse) to ejaculate, then they'd still be losing this precious "life fluid" through nocturnal emissions. So, just runnin a batch here and there would cancel out the loss from masturbation by the gains caused by the cessation of the nocturnal emissions. You'd a figured that some ancient masturbation loving elder would've tried to argue against that point, and at least argued for giving a "thumbs up" to the occasional cranky cranky ;)
Also, if it doesn't get ejaculated, then it eventually winds up being eliminated anyway through urination. The body has to purge it every once in a while. The bible does in fact mention "nocturnal emission" and how to clean it up if you get it on yourself, but like all bodily functions, it was considered "unclean". :D

[QBinBee]

Well seeing as I have met more J.O. buddies at the gym than anywhere else, I'd say the complete opposite is true; at least in my case.

[biomorph]

I lift weights three times a week. I don't do it as a competitive sport, I just want to put a little more muscle on myself and improve my overall health and fitness.

One thing I have learned is that resistance training releases a lot of hormones into your system, not the least of which is testosterone. And with that running even higher than normal...well...certain other needs have to be taken care of, lest I go insane.

Weightlifing is a cure for masturbation like liquid oxygen is a flame retardant.

I was going to say this, but you have, so i don't need to..........