If heroin makes people happy-Does that make it useful?

[The Grave]

Ansewrs up a teree to thu nam ov pogglit........

[kmortis]

Um...uhhh...yeah.

Sure. man. I, uh...<kaf> agree

Could I borrow a couple of bucks for...um, some...food?

[QBinBee]

Ansewrs up a teree to thu nam ov pogglit........

Seems to have the same effect as religion: leaves one broke for some euphoric feelings and if it's really effective: spectacular hallucinations.

[hodgy]

Useful for ******* people's lifes over
And their families

Masked profanity is prohibited in the public areas.

[Nogbad]

Yes it is useful...for those whose medical condition requires desperate measures. It should be used wisely and sparingly :D bit like religion really.

[Kevin_Lowe]

All else being equal, anything that makes people happy or relieves suffering is useful.

Pure heroin (as used in hospitals) used correctly does this wonderfully well, safely and harmlessly.

Street heroin is less safe and is usually used improperly by people in desperate poverty who are also cramming any other drug they can find into their raddled bodies. This is a very bad idea.

[articulett]

It numbs pain and makes your troubles seem lighter... but then you are always chasing that first high...

It's very useful as long as you don't mind being mentally enslaved and living for your next fix.

The older you are, when you first use it, the less likely it will destroy the rest of your life. Leave it for the old folks and those whose lives would suck without it.

[kmortis]

Seriously, just a couple of bucks. I can pay you back on Thursday. I just need to get some Jello for my mom.

[QBinBee]

All else being equal, anything that makes people happy or relieves suffering is useful.

Pure heroin (as used in hospitals) used correctly does this wonderfully well, safely and harmlessly.

Street heroin is less safe and is usually used improperly by people in desperate poverty who are also cramming any other drug they can find into their raddled bodies. This is a very bad idea.

So how does one determine which religions are pure and impure? Which religions are relieving suffering? Which are simply becoming the "opiates of the masses"?

[hodgy]

To the last few commentators: ok, if you are referring to very terminally ill people - I can see there could be a good reason to use heroin.

This is not the typical usage, however, and you know it. It can ruin many lives, beyond the initial user. There are immediate impacts of manipulation, lies, thieving and violence.

There can be longer term impacts for children - a boy, growing up, gradually beginning to realise that his Father loves heroin more than his son. He learns this painfully, by empirical evidence.

[Nogbad]

To the last few commentators: ok, if you are referring to very terminally ill people - I can see there could be a good reason to use heroin.

This is not the typical usage, however, and you know it. It can ruin many lives, beyond the initial user. There are immediate impacts of manipulation, lies, thieving and violence.

There can be longer term impacts for children - a boy, growing up, gradually beginning to realise that his Father loves heroin more than his son. He learns this painfully, by empirical evidence.

Not sure one can be slightly terminally ill but nonetheless opiates are used extensively in hospitals and hospices on a daily basis. A lot of people at any one time are coming to the end of their lives.

The social problems caused by drug addiction are largely due to cost and the interface with the criminal fraternity. Heroin is cheap, and if free of contaminants and administered properly, is not immediately dangerous (although any long term addiction is hardly healthy). There is some merit to the argument presented by a Chief Constable not so long ago that addicts should be given the drug. It would stop them stealing to pay criminals an inflated price, cutting petty thefts by more than half, it would hurt the drug barons and make pushing heroin onto a new generation economically pointless.

[BenBurch]

Ummm... I have known several Heroin addicts.

Were it legal, their addictions would have been no particular problem for them. Because it was illegal, their lives were living hells. Even Methadone was hard to get when they WANTED to be clean. If you have to drive 80 miles to a Methadone clinic every morning before work, you are either not getting the Methadone or not getting to work.

That said, its a horrible drug unless you are in pain or having problems breathing due to several reasons. It does not make anybody "happy" at all. But it must be legalized.

[Marquis de Carabas]

I find it quite useful. I'd find it more useful if somebody would lend kmo a few bucks so he could give it to me for... um, food.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Suggestion: If you're preparing the injections for a friend, don't do her any favors and squirt out half the stuff when she's not looking. Consider what will happen when she has to prepare her own injection.

******* idiot.

~~ Paul

[sinclairmcevoy]

Ummm... I have known several Heroin addicts.

Were it legal, their addictions would have been no particular problem for them. Because it was illegal, their lives were living hells. Even Methadone was hard to get when they WANTED to be clean. If you have to drive 80 miles to a Methadone clinic every morning before work, you are either not getting the Methadone or not getting to work.

That said, its a horrible drug unless you are in pain or having problems breathing due to several reasons. It does not make anybody "happy" at all. But it must be legalized.
How would it have been easier for them if heroin was legal? If they had to drive 80 miles to a heroin clinic or go to work, where would most addicts go?
I don't know how being on methadone instead of heroin make one clean. Isn't that a bit like saying "I quit smoking crack but I started snorting powder, so now I'm not a crack head." Not being cynical, having been an addict. You are clean or using. Taking methadone instead of heroin is still using.

[sinclairmcevoy]

Not sure one can be slightly terminally ill but nonetheless opiates are used extensively in hospitals and hospices on a daily basis. A lot of people at any one time are coming to the end of their lives.

The social problems caused by drug addiction are largely due to cost and the interface with the criminal fraternity. Heroin is cheap, and if free of contaminants and administered properly, is not immediately dangerous (although any long term addiction is hardly healthy). There is some merit to the argument presented by a Chief Constable not so long ago that addicts should be given the drug. It would stop them stealing to pay criminals an inflated price, cutting petty thefts by more than half, it would hurt the drug barons and make pushing heroin onto a new generation economically pointless.
Legalizing heroin is not the answer. Addicts would be lining up. (and why not?) But who is to say how much you can have and how often? What happens when you need more? Developing tolerance and needing more is part of addiction. I don't know what the answer is, but I think legalizing heroin would just open a new can of worms.

[BenBurch]

How would it have been easier for them if heroin was legal?

They would not have to buy it from armed hardened criminals for one thing. They also would not have to earn serious money just to maintain their habit, much less live. If Heroin were priced based on its cost of production, it would be about as expensive as coffee. They would not have had to worry about getting clean syringes. Those could be purchased legally. This would reduce HIV transmission via needle to almost nothing.


If they had to drive 80 miles to a heroin clinic or go to work, where would most addicts go?

They would not need a clinic. Make it legal. Then you can buy it however the market permits. The liquor store? The headshop? Mail order? Were it legal I am sure getting it would not be a major issue if you are as motivated to have it as addicts are.

I don't know how being on methadone instead of heroin make one clean. Isn't that a bit like saying "I quit smoking crack but I started snorting powder, so now I'm not a crack head." Not being cynical, having been an addict. You are clean or using. Taking methadone instead of heroin is still using.

Except that when taken in maintenance doses, methadone does not make the addict high. Methadone makes the addict functional. The difference is the rate at which the drug is converted into morphine in the body, or so I was told.

[sinclairmcevoy]

I can see how it would make some aspects easier, but wouldn't legalization make it even easier for anyone to get it? Age limit maybe? Ever have a kid or teenager ask you to buy beer or smokes for them?
Besides, who would take control of the poppy crops? And how? There's a lot of criminals relying on that crop to keep them rolling. I think the problems that need to be overcome are innumerable. The only ones to benefit from legal dope are the addicts. You became and addict, you can stop being one too. Life sucks. Hard cheese. You do something illegal, pay the price. If you choose to do the stuff that makes life a living hell, live with your choice, or make a change. I sympathize with addicts, having been one. But I draw a line when I hear legalize it. Making it cheaper and easier to get, along with clean rigs will just make it easier to become and stay addicted. BTW, I have never tried heroin.

[QBinBee]

I don't know how being on methadone instead of heroin make one clean. Isn't that a bit like saying "I quit smoking crack but I started snorting powder, so now I'm not a crack head." Not being cynical, having been an addict. You are clean or using. Taking methadone instead of heroin is still using.

There have been cases where certain individuals have been so addicted that quitting abruptly (cold turkey) has caused cardiac arrest. In such a case, you're correct: They weren't using anymore because they weren't alive anymore either. If desiring to quit, it's vital one goes to a detox center.

In other cases, it functions as a wheening mechanism. Just as a person using nicotene gum and patches is still using nicotene, they none-the-less have a better chance of quitting for good than does a smoker (or chewer) who quits abruptly.

[andyandy]

Useful for ******* people's lifes over
And their families

Masked profanity is prohibited in the public areas.



******* idiot.

~~ Paul

Quis custodiet ipsos custodies? ;)
this doesn't make sense any more, but at least we're consistent. Phew!

[BenBurch]

Poppies grow (almost) anywhere. It is the California State Flower you know.

We would not have to take control of those crops at all.

If it were legal, it would be grown in Iowa, and the terrorist criminals would be totally deprived of their profits.

[Cainkane1]

Seems to have the same effect as religion: leaves one broke for some euphoric feelings and if it's really effective: spectacular hallucinations.

Were spent dealing with ex friends who had a chemical addiction. Having to watch once decent human beings turn into thieves and social leeches was a horrible experience. The way they use and abuse people while on a hunt for their fix is terrible.

[bignickel]

That said, its a horrible drug unless you are in pain or having problems breathing due to several reasons. It does not make anybody "happy" at all. But it must be legalized.
Correction: Its illegalization must stop.

Everything's legal unless the law, courts, and police keep it illegal. I'm pretty fed up with the huge amounts of money, time, and prison space being used to keep narcotics illegal year after year.

But we're in danger of seriously derailing this thread if we continue too far down this path.

[The Grave]

Statistics bear-out the idea that 'drugs' are minimal in terms of both crime and life-busters compared to Booze... Alcohol is the biggest and worse problem.

I agree these drugs should be legalised and eliminate the criminal element by taking black market profits out of the equation.

Back this up with more education-regular check ups to include a "do you need drugs" course etc... and problem ... alleviated.

[Darth Rotor]

Please do all the Heroin you wish to. While you are buzzing, there are some opportunistic folks who might just rifle your pockets for loose change, borrow your sneakers, and make off with your women.

Your choice, your consequences.

DR

[hodgy]

Not sure one can be slightly terminally ill but nonetheless opiates are used extensively in hospitals and hospices on a daily basis. A lot of people at any one time are coming to the end of their lives.

A very good use of it - I heartily approve.

The social problems caused by drug addiction are largely due to cost and the interface with the criminal fraternity. Heroin is cheap, and if free of contaminants and administered properly, is not immediately dangerous (although any long term addiction is hardly healthy). There is some merit to the argument presented by a Chief Constable not so long ago that addicts should be given the drug. It would stop them stealing to pay criminals an inflated price, cutting petty thefts by more than half, it would hurt the drug barons and make pushing heroin onto a new generation economically pointless.

Well, since it is extremely adictive, it is extremely dangerous, cheap or not, taxed or not, legal or not. Go and shoot up a bit (recreationally) and come back and tell me its like having a fag or a pint - go on - fill your boots...