AE911Truth Dot INFO: New Debunking Site

[boloboffin]

AE911Truth.info (http://www.ae911truth.info/index.html)

This site began when I noticed that Richard Gage and his merry band of snake oil salesmen had not purchased the domain name ae911truth.info. Wickedness took hold of my soul, and one flash of the credit card later, I owned that domain.

So I've been slowly, SLOWLY, building a rebuttal site for Gage's PowerPoint presentation there. I'm nowhere near finished (slide 28 out of over 300!), but in just the past couple of days somebody from that site found it. The cat being out of the bag, I thought I'd give you all something to welcome the New Year with.

The overall site is ambitious in scope. I'm going for total accessibility. Right now the regular templete is the same as the accessible one, but if I ever get the whole thing done, I'm going to revamp the site for a more polished look. It's perfectly serviceable as it is, it loads lickety split, and it's as accurate as I know how to be. I've even found it accessed through a search on examples of appeal to authority, so maybe it will be a tool for critical thinking and logical fallacies as well.

Enjoy!

[jhunter1163]

Excellent work thus far, Boloboffin. I do hope that you'll point out the fact that Gage is soliciting donations to continue his work on his site. That to me is despicable; he's wrong, on some level he knows he's wrong, and yet he asks for money to spread his wrongness.

[liverleef]

I'll add it to my bookmarks. Keep up the good work!

[Gravy]

Fantastic. Keep up the good work. One suggestion: change "Welcome and Apology," which I think injects a negative tone, to "Welcome." You've got nothing to apologize for, and at the start you explain that the site is under construction.

I'm impressed by your efforts to make the site as accessible as possible!

[Max Photon]

I'm impressed by your efforts to make the site as accessible as possible!




I echo that sentiment x 10!


May I suggest that if you offer material in PDF, that you also offer - whenever possible - a non-PDF version.

PDF can be an accessibility killer - and that's just one of its downsides.

Article > PDF: Unfit for Human Consumption (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html)


Also, considering that many JREFers will be visiting your site, you might want to install some
mental access ramps.

[T.A.M.]

yes and add a few rubber rooms for the truthers that visit.

TAM;)

[Wildy]

Also, considering that many JREFers will be visiting your site, you might want to install some
mental access ramps.

Because we know that you and your little clique will need them.

[The Doc]

Also, considering that many JREFers will be visiting your site, you might want to install some mental access ramps.

That was completely uncivil and an attempt to derail this thread into bickering. Grow up, Max.

[FactCheck]

You've got nothing to apologize for,


I agree 100%, the public should be very greatful to you for what you've already done.

[boloboffin]

Thanks, folks, for all the kind words. I'm glad you appreciate it.

May I suggest that if you offer material in PDF, that you also offer - whenever possible - a non-PDF version.

PDF can be an accessibility killer - and that's just one of its downsides.

Article > PDF: Unfit for Human Consumption (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20030714.html)

Any original articles will be in HTML versions on the site, fully accessible. The PDFs will be in their own section for downloading. PDFs won't ever be a part of the main page, and they'll always be marked as PDFs if linked.

[OldTigerCub]

Nice start, Boloboffin! :D

I will be looking forward to seeing the fully operational site up and running as a good source for factual information. With all of the disinfo sites out there, it is good to see another debunking site making it's debut.:clap:

[FactCheck]

I placed a link on my default page and suggest others do the same.

I would suggest putting a date to finish the pages within so people know when to come back. Each page can have something like "Expected time of completion: 1/15/2007" or something. It also lights a fire under you to finish because you want to keep your word. :)

[1337m4n]

Also, considering that many JREFers will be visiting your site, you might want to install some
mental access ramps.

Oh yeah??? Well...uh...your mother!

[Totovader]

Bravo!

I didn't even think about the AIA logo appearing on his slides. You would think that would be a problem...

[FactCheck]

Also, considering that many JREFers will be visiting your site, you might want to install some mental access ramps.We wouldn't want Max's guardian to sue.

While we're on the subject, I suggest we refrain from using derogatory terms when pointing out conspiracy theorists such as stupid, mental or idiot. I believe the universally accepted term is "Synaptically Challenged".

[beachnut]

Bravo!

I didn't even think about the AIA logo appearing on his slides. You would think that would be a problem...
I fear they are like the BBB, they protect their own even if they are liars and scumbags.

I looked up some of his so called members, and some have been local AIA chapter presidents (incest). I could be AIA does not have standards and rules on making up lies and posting the AIA logo with them! Someone needs to check it out, I was never contacted as I tried but never got an answer from AIA. Is AIA real, do they have standards? Would you let your organization and people in it spread lies and behave like idiots?

[GreNME]

Very cool, boloboffin. Kudos on the initiative, and I hope it continues to come together as well as I can see so far on the site.

Question: Is it okay if I add this to the list of site links as I begin putting together this project I'm working on covering the Zeitgeist film?

[Mince]

Wow! This is really telling (and typical of the movement):



...and my interest in the 9/11 Truth Movement comes from my political interests. Many members of the Truth Movement come from the left side of the political spectrum. After all, the main appeal in these conspiracy theories is for people who are already disenchanted with George Bush. And that would be me. I'm more than willing to believe the worst of President Bush and his crooked administration. Indeed, I am the target audience for the 9/11 Truth Movement.

[FactCheck]

Wow! This is really telling (and typical of the movement):I think it would also be important to include ALL the people who want to do away with the present form of government. Both from the left and the right. There are many libertarians who also believe the conspiracy story. Just ask Metamars.

[Mince]

I think it would also be important to include ALL the people who want to do away with the present form of government. Both from the left and the right. There are many libertarians who also believe the conspiracy story. Just ask Metamars.


Actually, I misinterpreted that paragraph. I now see what the OP is saying. Apologies all around. I interpreted as a truther admitting he believed the conspiracies due merely to his political bend; but I now see the OP was saying that, politically, he is a lot like many of the truthers but does not, of course, believe the conspiracies.

[boloboffin]

I'm going to put up a full email account of the conversation between the AE911Truth guy that found the site and me. It's my first PDF! I'm not going to bother coding it for HTML for a while, though. Mainly because: who cares?

I fear they are like the BBB, they protect their own even if they are liars and scumbags.

I looked up some of his so called members, and some have been local AIA chapter presidents (incest). I could be AIA does not have standards and rules on making up lies and posting the AIA logo with them! Someone needs to check it out, I was never contacted as I tried but never got an answer from AIA. Is AIA real, do they have standards? Would you let your organization and people in it spread lies and behave like idiots?

I've been to the AIA website. Their ethics statement (pdf) (http://www.aia.org/SiteObjects/files/bookmark_ethics_final.pdf) is probably the best place to look for any infractions that Gage may be bringing upon himself and those who trust him. From the paper:

CANON I – General Obligations
Members should maintain and advance their knowledge of the art and science of architecture, respect the body of architectural accomplishment, contribute to its growth, thoughtfully consider the social and environmental impact of their professional activities, and exercise learned and uncompromised professional judgment.

CANON II – Obligations to the Public
Members should embrace the spirit and letter of the law governing their professional affairs and should promote and serve the public interest in their personal and professional activities.

They're mostly about professional conduct as an architect and less concerned about personal activities, but his use of the logo and his continual emphasis on his being an architect puts this into the realm of the second canon.

If Gage feels that he is promoting and serving the public interest in this endeavor, then his activity is representative of the AIA and they have an interest in what he's doing.

I placed a link on my default page and suggest others do the same.

I would suggest putting a date to finish the pages within so people know when to come back. Each page can have something like "Expected time of completion: 1/15/2007" or something. It also lights a fire under you to finish because you want to keep your word. :)

That's a good idea.

Actually, I misinterpreted that paragraph. I now see what the OP is saying. Apologies all around. I interpreted as a truther admitting he believed the conspiracies due merely to his political bend; but I now see the OP was saying that, politically, he is a lot like many of the truthers but does not, of course, believe the conspiracies.

Of course a good number of the leading lights of 9/11 CT land are right wing crazies. The political world seems to be round.

[ref]

Nice work, Bolo :)

Gage & AE911Truth going down, faster than free fall.

[PhantomWolf]

I'd like to make a suggestion I used to make to all my students when teaching webpage design. If you are going to put in a link to a page that is offsite, always force it to another browser window!

This has two effects. Firstly it means that you haven't directed your reader away from your own site to somewhere else, and secondly, if they close the window after reading the site you directed them too, they still have your site open.

[MetalliSociety]

Bookmarked. I'll be looknig forward to how this site developes, and how Gage n Co. react to it.

[boloboffin]

Y'all, 911Blogger has a post about the site (http://www.911blogger.com/node/13211)! :)

Well, folks, in addition to being targeted by the Simon Wiesenthal Center, Ae911truth.org now has inspired the "debunker" side to do an evil twin: ae911truth.info, apparently run by a guy named Joseph Nobles. It is under construction but the core of the site consists of attempted rebuttals to Richard Gage's powerpoint presentation.

Just the first page of this is pretty infuriating to read:

My life is complete.

In other news, I've changed all the external and PDF links to open in a separate window. Thanks for that reminder, Phantom Wolf. That irritates me as well at other sites. And I've changed the "Apology" part, Gravy. My theological training put a different spin on that word for me. Christian apologetics are all about explaining why you're going to go ahead and believe what you want. But why be cryptic?

ETA: Ooo, I'm "obviously part of the Florida gang." I wonder what that means?

[Gravy]

Y'all, 911Blogger has a post about the site (http://www.911blogger.com/node/13211)! :)

My life is complete.

In other news, I've changed all the external and PDF links to open in a separate window. Thanks for that reminder, Phantom Wolf. That irritates me as well at other sites. And I've changed the "Apology" part, Gravy. My theological training put a different spin on that word for me. Christian apologetics are all about explaining why you're going to go ahead and believe what you want. But why be cryptic?Ah, I was reading too fast. Sorry.

ETA: Ooo, I'm "obviously part of the Florida gang." I wonder what that means?Dunno. Those people are profoundly stupid and may think Florida is a government disinfo agency.

"Kameelyun" there lamely tries to Godwin the thread:

"How odd that Joseph Nobles' name is so eerily similar to history's most infamous propagandist... :D"

And yet not a mention from any of them of anything you get wrong. How surprising.

[maccy]

Dunno. Those people are profoundly stupid and may think Florida is a government disinfo agency.

Maybe they think that we all take orders from Randi's secret hideout (presumably in a hollowed-out Florida volcano*)

I notice that MirageMemories has started calling us "puppets" recently. Although, I suppose if your posting strategy involves avoiding evidence or even arguments (to avoid the risk, I assume, of an incident similar to the one that revealed that you don't know the hight of the building you work in) then maybe you need mix things up a little.


*As source of pyroclastic flows?

[Dave Rogers]

And yet not a mention from any of them of anything you get wrong. How surprising.

Well, not quite. One of them says you reference Ryan Mackey, and that he's wrong. Now, if someone would remind me what Mackey got wrong...

Dave

[peteweaver]

Excellent work thus far, Boloboffin. I do hope that you'll point out the fact that Gage is soliciting donations to continue his work on his site. That to me is despicable; he's wrong, on some level he knows he's wrong, and yet he asks for money to spread his wrongness.

Is Gage's address for donations freepost ?
If so, how about sending minute donations in, which would cost more to bank than the value of the paper cheque :-)

Hope Richard Gage or Doug Plumb see my suggestion, and realise that there is serious opposition to their fraudulent movement.

Kudos to Boloboffin for doing a counter site to them.

[JamesB]

Starting this site was worth it, if only for the entertainment of the angry rebuttals:

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5474

By using fancy terms like Appeal to Authority, Argument ad Populum, and
Affirming the Consequent Nobles tries to sound authoritative regarding Gage’s credentials, research, evidence and his cause. He even appeals to his readers by complimenting Gage on a personal level by saying,

“Richard Gage is a mild-mannered, likable person. He generates a great deal of sympathy as a speaker because of this. He seems genuine to me in his desire to see justice done for the 9/11 attacks. Therefore, the best I can say for him is that he is terribly misguided”.

Sounds kind of sweet doesn’t it?

Now don't use that fancy Latin stuff on me!

[Mobyseven]

Good work! Make sure to let us know about major updates.

[boloboffin]

Starting this site was worth it, if only for the entertainment of the angry rebuttals:

http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/diarypage.php?did=5474

Now don't use that fancy Latin stuff on me!

That's magnificent! I've posted a reply there. We'll see how long it lasts.

It could be there forever, of course. My recent experience at 911Blogger (blocked without a single comment allowed to be posted) surely doesn't characterize all the 9/11 sites, does it?

[Kryptos]

Yeah! that's awesome. The site looks good and I look forward to seeing more on there.

[boloboffin]

Good work! Make sure to let us know about major updates.

Yes, definitely. Minor ones are due every Thursday (giving me a chance to change the major mistakes before I go back to work on Friday), but I will be announcing things like completing the WTC7 section and the like.

[AZCat]

I just read through the pdf with the back-and-forth between you and the AE9/11Truth guy. It's almost painful to see how eager they are to convince others, yet all they have in their bag of tools is the deluge of "facts" what's-his-name uses repeatedly in his emails. You have him pegged in your analysis.

[LashL]

Yes, definitely. Minor ones are due every Thursday (giving me a chance to change the major mistakes before I go back to work on Friday), but I will be announcing things like completing the WTC7 section and the like.


Excellent job, boloboffin! Looking forward to the updates as they appear, too.

[boloboffin]

The Op/Ed piece had made its way to 911Blogger (http://www.911blogger.com/node/13288), along with one last plea from Shane Geiger to waste my time dealing with him. It's tragic when someone you love rejects you, isn't it?

[boloboffin]

The slide debunk is up to Slide #49, and I would have waited until the end of the 7 World Trade debunk to publish this, but...

Gage has changed the slide show.

This was actually back in December, so I cannot claim he did it because of little old me. The old slideshow is still up, and all the information I gathered is on it, so I've been plugging away on the old show.

Several corrections have been made, but not openly acknowledged that I can find. The Oslo CD video with the altered soundtrack has been replaced with a segment from the "This is an Orange" guy. The clip is the same cut, however. No indication of all the previous explosions. But one last explosion is on the tape, while "TIAO" states confidently that fire does not do this to a building. Well, of course it doesn't -- that's a controlled demolition. What was happened to 7 World Trade was different, despite any superficial similiarities.

Other mistakes have been correct, and some were my favorite mistakes of his, rassenfrassen. However, plenty of idiocy remains, and my new favorite is his slide 33 (http://www.ae911truth.net/ae911truth_ppt_web/slideshow.php?i=33), where Gage explains that the top northwest corner of 7 World Trade is falling at close to free fall speed because the point can be plotted at a constant acceleration factor of 9.1 m/s^2.

That is not a typo.

[slyjoe]

Hey, what's 8% when you are searching for truth. :rolleyes:

[boloboffin]

What it is, you see, is that 7 World Trade was VERY TALL, and that high up, gravity only accelerates at 9.1 m/s^2. You see.

I slowly step toward the 21st century. There is now a RSS feed (http://ae911truth.info/feed.xml) at the site for updates, if you're into that type of thing. With that link, you should be able to add it to your favorite news aggregator right here, if you like.

[proxywar]

Nice site.

[ref]

True, Gage has removed the wrong sound and has at least some audible explosions on his new slide show.

http://www.ae911truth.net/ae911truth_ppt_web/slideshow.php?i=22

Of course, this makes his case even more ridicilous.

[uk_dave]

Well the 'truthers' who have already bought his shtick are hardly likely to pay a return visit for a corrected version, and if they did I doubt they would even notice them