[Ed]The "Star Registry" really ticks me off.

[BenBurch]

I am sick to death with these guys expensively selling the FAKE naming rights to a star.

We all know the drill - they have no right to name celestial bodies at all; That right is generally acknowledged to reside in an international scientific body. So these people are selling something they do not have. I think its outright fraud, personally.

But, what if we came up with a way to do the same thing for FREE?

A website/database you can log onto, enter the name of your intended recipient, and then we will select a star from the database and give you a PDF file to print out and present to the person who is to receive the gift.

It still will mean exactly nothing but the sentiment. But it won't be filling the pockets of grifters.

[Michael Redman]

It is fraud.

The alternative setup would seem to legitimize the idea, in my opinion. A better idea would be to tar and feather the crooks responsible.

[JFrankA]

I am sick to death with these guys expensively selling the FAKE naming rights to a star.

We all know the drill - they have no right to name celestial bodies at all; That right is generally acknowledged to reside in an international scientific body. So these people are selling something they do not have. I think its outright fraud, personally.

But, what if we came up with a way to do the same thing for FREE?

A website/database you can log onto, enter the name of your intended recipient, and then we will select a star from the database and give you a PDF file to print out and present to the person who is to receive the gift.

It still will mean exactly nothing but the sentiment. But it won't be filling the pockets of grifters.

You know what's worse? I came across a web site that sold this as a home-based francise business!!! (Sorry, I don't have the link anymore).

"Let's sell star names and make a pyramid scheme off of it!!!"

....tar and feather is too good for them......

[alfaniner]

That's still going on? I got suckered into it more than 25 years ago!

[BenBurch]

That's still going on? I got suckered into it more than 25 years ago!

Yeah. I cannot listen to the local news radio station without hearing an ad for them targeting Valentines Day. (A fine Hallmark Holiday, but that's for another rant.)

[SezMe]

I am sick to death with these guys expensively selling the FAKE naming rights to a star.

It is fraud.

I think these comments go too far. Who says some yahoo can't give his own names to stars. Hell, I have my own names for the two idiot kids who live across the street. The star names are not "official" in any way. Nobody uses the names. It is just a stupid gift idea that - apparently - a lot of people fall for. This is not fraud in my book. It is not even a scam. It's just dumb gift giving.

[Aepervius]

Now selling a moon land plot *IS* a scam, would you not agree ?
ETA: I just wanted to say it is the same type of scam IMHO. Now if it was sold as a "birthday joke" like those fake "world best of" title, that would change everything.

[SezMe]

Now selling a moon land plot *IS* a scam, would you not agree ?
ETA: I just wanted to say it is the same type of scam IMHO. Now if it was sold as a "birthday joke" like those fake "world best of" title, that would change everything.
Depends. If the moon land sale includes any assertion that you will actually own the land, that the USA has title to land that it wants to sell, etc., then it would be a scam, yes.

But the "star registry" people make no such claims. All they are selling is naming rights. Read their site, especially their FAQ (http://www.starregistry.com/faq.cfm). They are real clear that you are not buying any real, tangible asset, just "naming" rights and they also acknowledge that such a name is not recognized elsewhere.

It is, in fact, a "gift (birthday) joke", but they don't say it in so many words.

Look, Aepervius, I'm against consumer fraud and scams as much as you. But this just does not rise to that level.

[Ladewig]

But the "star registry" people make no such claims. All they are selling is naming rights. Read their site, especially their FAQ (http://www.starregistry.com/faq.cfm).

I wouldn't have believed it if you had not included a link. I am genuinely surprised. A few years back, I had read about astronomers being targeted by star-naming companies' lawyers for pointing out that the names were meaningless.

[Ladewig]

Now selling a moon land plot *IS* a scam, would you not agree?


I wonder if there are any laws specifically outlawing the sale of Neptunian moon lots?

I wish I could rid my self of either all my morals or my penchant for finding immoral activities.

[erlando]

I wonder if there are any laws specifically outlawing the sale of Neptunian moon lots?

I wish I could rid my self of either all my morals or my penchant for finding immoral activities.

Not a law per se but the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm) would seem to do the trick..:


Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, shall be free for exploration and use by all States without discrimination of any kind, on a basis of equality and in accordance with international law, and there shall be free access to all areas of celestial bodies.


Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

[AgeGap]

Here is the certificate. A bit of photoshop and you can say a star is yours. I got dibs on The Sun. From now on the day will start at AgeGapRise and AgeGapSet. I am sure that they used to advertise in a science magazine which is a bit cheeky as no scientific organisation recognises them.

[SezMe]

I wouldn't have believed it if you had not included a link. I am genuinely surprised. A few years back, I had read about astronomers being targeted by star-naming companies' lawyers for pointing out that the names were meaningless.
The two may well be connected. Maybe the star-naming companies got their ass handed to them in court which resulted in the FAQ. I must emphasize that I don't KNOW this; I'm just speculating.

[SezMe]

Not a law per se but the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm) would seem to do the trick..:
Given that the US Constitution enshrines "treaties" as the law of the (our) land, it would indeed seem to do the trick.

[Ladewig]

Not a law per se but the 1967 Outer Space Treaty (http://www.state.gov/t/ac/trt/5181.htm) would seem to do the trick..:

Outer space, including the moon and other celestial bodies, is not subject to national appropriation by claim of sovereignty, by means of use or occupation, or by any other means.

Ha. That won't stop me. Who wants to buy valuable real estate on Planet X? Let me assure you that because it a transdimensional planetoid not located in this this space/time continuum it will not be subject to either the man-made or natural laws accorded celestial bodies. I have lake-side lots with views of three very beautiful universes. Starting bid: 30,000 quatloos.


Seriously, I wonder how much money I could make off this scam.

[JFrankA]

I have to do a bit of explaination on my part: the website I saw that was selling this franchise was stating that the registry was real and it actually had some kind of US government science department backing it up. It was claiming to be completely real.

Of course, when they are up front with "this isn't official", then that's a whole different story. :)

[HarryKeogh]

I was hoping the Star Registry was official and I had exclusive rights to the star I named. I guess I can't use Funbags32H4 as the gathering point for my intergalactic take over of the Andromeda galaxy.

[Michael Redman]

I think these comments go too far. Who says some yahoo can't give his own names to stars. Hell, I have my own names for the two idiot kids who live across the street. The star names are not "official" in any way. Nobody uses the names. It is just a stupid gift idea that - apparently - a lot of people fall for. This is not fraud in my book. It is not even a scam. It's just dumb gift giving.The radio ads I hear, which include the fact that the registration will be recorded at the US Copyright Office, are clearly intended to lead the consumer to the conclusion that these are going to be the official names of these stars. My opinion is that this is fraud, or at least deceptive trade practices.

[MG1962]

I think these comments go too far. Who says some yahoo can't give his own names to stars. Hell, I have my own names for the two idiot kids who live across the street. The star names are not "official" in any way. Nobody uses the names. It is just a stupid gift idea that - apparently - a lot of people fall for. This is not fraud in my book. It is not even a scam. It's just dumb gift giving.

Sorry it is 100% illegal and fraud - You can not rename something (And charge someone for it) That already has a name. The only authority on Earth with the right to name stella objects is the IAU

[kosai]

Well if we can't legally sell naming rights to the moon... how about land plots in the afterlife?? Oh wait, I guess the church has a monopoly on that one.

On a serious note though I can't really get myself in a tizzy that these are sold. You are buying a certificate, that's all, if you didn't read the fine print to know what you were buying... caveat emptor.

Oh and a tip: Those little scrolls that you buy in the grocery store checkout lane... they can't really tell the future.

[FramerDave]

I remember reading a short article about this in either Skeptic or the Skeptical Inquirer a couple years ago. I don't remember all the details, but here's the gist of it:

No, this star registry has no official bearing. The International Astronomical Union is the only organization that has any capacity to name stars that has any real bearing. The only real "official" naming agency. And they don't name stars after people for a price. They're far more likely to give stars names such as 1987A-34Aplha-Seti-5.

The article did mention that astronomers who had spoken out against star naming companies had been harassed and threatened with lawsuits, if I recall correctly.

At least one of the companies did get their asses handed to them by the Swiss government or banking system. The company had been claiming that the registry was registered and sequestered in a Swiss bank, leading consumers to believe that the Swiss government had put their official stamp of approval on it. If you look at their websites you'll find that any mention of Switzerland has been removed or greatly watered down.

The registry may be copyrighted (written?) and "registered" with the Library of Congress, but so is virtually every book written and published. This doesn't mean, to use a legal term, squat.

The author of the article was an astronomer. He mentioned that he had been asked before what the harm is. The harm, he wrote, comes when people want to see "their" star. The observatory he worked at hosted monthly open houses where the public could come and look through one of the telescopes. On more than one occasion he had had family members come and ask to see the star they had had named (or so they thought) after a lost family member. I believe one of them was a young daughter who had passed away. His choice was to tell them the truth and make them feel even worse about their loss and having been taken advantage of, or simply show them some random star. He showed them a random star.

I'm sure some people might think that anyone gullible enough to fall for this deserved to lose their money. I disagree, and think that it's just as much a fraud and just as shameless as the garbage that Sylvia Browne spews on a regular basis.

Star naming FAQ: http://enzerink.net/peter/astronomy/starfaq/#one

* As I mentioned, it's been a while since I read the article and I have no idea where the magazine is now. If I am mistaken on any details please feel free to correct me.

[SezMe]

The radio ads I hear, which include the fact that the registration will be recorded at the US Copyright Office, are clearly intended to lead the consumer to the conclusion that these are going to be the official names of these stars. My opinion is that this is fraud, or at least deceptive trade practices.
If every ad that intended to mislead the consumer was fraud or deceptive trade practice, damn near every ad now on the air would have to be pulled.

[SezMe]

Sorry it is 100% illegal and fraud - You can not rename something (And charge someone for it) That already has a name. The only authority on Earth with the right to name stella objects is the IAU
Do you know for a fact that the stars they name already have a name?

[Michael Redman]

If every ad that intended to mislead the consumer was fraud or deceptive trade practice...Who made that claim?

[SezMe]

What claim? You did notice the word "If" right?

[Michael Redman]

What claim? You did notice the word "If" right?

The word "if", in this context, is there to demonstrate that that the clause that follows is in dispute. A "claim", in other words, which your second clause seeks to refute by demonstrating the invalid conclusion the claim would lead to.

However, refuting that claim would not refute my claim (the one you were responding to) because the two are not the same. You're attacking a strawman.

As for that refutation, that depends on what you mean by "intend to mislead the consumer". While exaggeration and subjective puffery is generally not actionable, advertisement that misstates or intentionally causes confusion as to material facts, in order to induce a consumer into a transaction the consumer would not have otherwise entered into, is illegal.

Additionally, the fact that enforcement mechanisms are not up to the task of policing false and misleading advertisement is not evidence that this advertisement does not violate the law.

[Beerina]

It is fraud.

The alternative setup would seem to legitimize the idea, in my opinion. A better idea would be to tar and feather the crooks responsible.

It's fraud to anybody but lawyers, who point out that anyone can "name" a star, and look, they'll "even put it in book form and register it at the US Copyright office!".

Indeed, a lawyer pulled into court would brazenly point out they do not claim to actually name things according to IAU's regulations.

So, for calling them "frauds", here's your summons to court. :(

[Beerina]

BTW, it is fraud, in the you're-going-to-Hell sense, though. To knowingly mislead people, knowing they think they're doing "official" naming in the same sense someone named that star "Beetlejuice" and taking advantage of this mistake financially, should be fraud.

A few Christmasses back, my niece wanted some baby doll thingie, and it turns out it includes free star naming from the International Star Registry. I felt like a schmuck. Every Christmas since then, we've been getting them books.

[BenBurch]

Do you know for a fact that the stars they name already have a name?

Sure all the ones on the charts that these grifters use are named.

HD-26509 is a name.

Just not a very memorable one.

[erlando]

HD-26509 is a name.

Just not a very memorable one.

To us HD-26509ians it's highly memorable thank you very much... ;)

[MG1962]

Do you know for a fact that the stars they name already have a name?

There are a large number of naming systems depending on the star - some are simply the reference point in the sky.

Example a star with the Name Struve 123 - tells a researcher that the star is a binary double - discovered by Otto Struve, and was the 123rd such star identified by the observer.

The Washington Double Star catalouge current has 78,000 stars listed

An overview

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Double_Star_Catalog

Here is a more general overview of naming stars

http://www.astro.uiuc.edu/~kaler/sow/starname.html

Some one mentioned earlier HD-26509

This star was identifed and named by Henry Draper in his 1925 catalouge - All up there are 250,000 stars included.

The Tycho 2 Survey covers about 2.5 million stars - there is an even deeper survey that covers about 20 million stars but its name escapes me at the momment

There is even a listing called the AGS which has over 2 million galaxies listed - so yeah astronomers are all over the sky like flys to a rotten prawn lol

[Whiplash]

I'm glad to see this subject came up here, because I first heard these radio ads a couple years back and I immediately began to wonder if there was really any legitimacy to it.

[kosai]

Right now might be a good time to plug Celestia...

http://www.shatters.net/celestia/

You can't rename any stars but you can visit them. It's really cool software if you take 20-30 minutes to learn how to space travel.

[MG1962]

Right now might be a good time to plug Celestia...

http://www.shatters.net/celestia/

You can't rename any stars but you can visit them. It's really cool software if you take 20-30 minutes to learn how to space travel.

Wow - you might want to send a copy to NASA, they have been trying to figure this space flight gig out for 40 years:rolleyes:

[MG1962]

Right now might be a good time to plug Celestia...

http://www.shatters.net/celestia/

You can't rename any stars but you can visit them. It's really cool software if you take 20-30 minutes to learn how to space travel.

Wow - you might want to send a copy to NASA, they have been trying to figure this space flight gig out for 40 years:rolleyes:

[FramerDave]

Here we go, I found a link to the article I mentioned in post #21:

http://csicop.org/si/2006-05/stars.html

By none other than the Bad Astronomer himself, Philip Plait.

[rjh01]

For sale, only one owner. The Moon. Moon For Sale? (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=36615)
Also this one There's a new operator in town... (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=47628)

[SphereGuy]

Ha. That won't stop me. Who wants to buy valuable real estate on Planet X? Let me assure you that because it a transdimensional planetoid not located in this this space/time continuum it will not be subject to either the man-made or natural laws accorded celestial bodies. I have lake-side lots with views of three very beautiful universes. Starting bid: 30,000 quatloos.


Seriously, I wonder how much money I could make off this scam.

This reminds me of Second Life. Selling plots in world that doesn't even exist.

[JFrankA]

This reminds me of Second Life. Selling plots in world that doesn't even exist.

Well, technically, with SL, you're buying space on a computer disk. And this business is VERY lucrative.... in an SL way, of course. :)

...yes, it's true. I play SL......:blush: