Tax Revolt in England?

[Tony]

Drudge is reporting that a rebellion is gathering in response to a rise in taxes.

http://www.drudgereport.com


RIOTS FEAR OVER TAXES IN ENGLAND // A rebellion over council tax rises is gathering such a powerful force across the country that a police authority has warned the Government to prepare for civil unrest... Developing...

Can anyone in England shed any light on this?

[Luke T.]

I suggest they start by tossing some tea into the Thames.

[Jim Lennox]

The average council tax for a Band D household soared over the £1,000 mark for the first time this year. Some councils have imposed a 46 per hike in rates this year, while the average charge has risen by 12 per cent. In the 10 years since the council tax was introduced, the average bill has doubled from £568 to £1,102.

Story (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=445757)

Pensioners are going mental!

And petrol is going to increase by 5p a litre.

I'm betting on the fuel increase causing more trouble than the council tax. Lorry drivers are more likely to picket petrol stations than OAPs are wont to riot.

Either way it's a whole lotta trouble for the men in suits...

[Jon_in_london]

Mine went up by 46% last/this year

I wouldnt mind paying shaet loads of tax if all the public services worked fine, since they are crappy though- I have a problem.

[Hypocolius]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Mine went up by 46% last/this year

I wouldnt mind paying shaet loads of tax if all the public services worked fine, since they are crappy though- I have a problem.

Tax, what's that?:roll:

[magimix]

Aaah yes, Council Tax. Mine went up quite a lot this year. Fortunately however, I get a 25% single-occupancy discount. The services we get for the money in this area suck arse, and no mistake.

The has been much displeasure over the recent hikes, but personally I haven't seen any militancy as a result. Still, it'd be quite funky if we had something akin to the Poll Tax Riots kick off, just to get the message across.

http://www.caliach.com/paulr/news/polltax/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/14/newsid_2495000/2495911.stm

[michaellee]

If you in the UK are becoming unruly because of tax increases, I am sure you could get the majority of posters here to gladly send you a portion of their paychecks.

Thats because they couldn't sleep at night thinking any government program, either here in the US or abroad, can afford to be cut or have its budget reduced.

What would happen to all of those wonderful government programs, services, employees, red-tape, bureacracy, and that overall great feeling one gets knowing your hard earned tax dollars are going to help those less fortunate.

Haven't you guys read "Robin Hood' over there? It's theme is the basis for all American politicians platforms over here in the US. You know, take from the bloody rich, and give it to the ones in need, while 75% of every tax dollar is spent by the government just to administer the programs that do not work or are a haven for fraud, political payoffs, or a hefty political contribution.

What was the reason America sought independence from England anyway? (They don't teach that part of history in US schools anymore). As the left-leaners say over here, "Raise taxes, raise taxes!! Just don't raise mine. Oh, I don't pay any but how come I am not included in the Bush tax cut? "

Grin and bear it like we have to over here, you will never learn to like it, but the downtrodden will silently love you for it. What consolation eh?

[AfaintcoldcupofTea..]

Originally posted by Luke T.
I suggest they start by tossing some tea into the Thames.
I object to that comment on the grounds of self horror.

[AfaintcoldcupofTea..]

And petrol is going to increase by 5p a litre.

That will cause a backlash. The price in the UK is already ludicrously high.

The UK is falling apart at the seams. A clear divide is opening up not between the north and south or the rich and poor. But, sadly and needlessly between the Politicians and the general public they are supposed to represent. The Politicians if they don't come back and support the people will find themselves under siege again as per Pensioner dispute of Pensions, the fuel revolt and the fire strikes. London needs to be crippled for those in their pink palaces to wake up and smell the peasants and come back down to earth.


Vive la revolution.

[BillyTK]

Strange how warnings of "resentment and potential civil unrest" (chair of the Norfolk Police Authority Jim Wilson's warning to deputy PM John Prescott) gets turned into "RIOTS FEAR OVER TAXES IN ENGLAND". Is Drudge guilty of "sexing up" his claims?

Some background stuff on Council Tax rises, pensioner protests, rioting in the streets, cats sleeping with dogs–I mean potential civil unrest from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3126212.stm).

[AfaintcoldcupofTea..]

Originally posted by BillyTK
Strange how warnings of "resentment and potential civil unrest" (chair of the Norfolk Police Authority Jim Wilson's warning to deputy PM John Prescott) gets turned into "RIOTS FEAR OVER TAXES IN ENGLAND". Is Drudge guilty of "sexing up" his claims?

Some background stuff on Council Tax rises, pensioner protests, rioting in the streets, cats sleeping with dogs–I mean potential civil unrest from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3126212.stm).
Sex sells and after all Governments like to sex things up too. What good for the goose is good for a Christmas feast.

[Ian Osborne]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Mine went up by 46% last/this year

Wandsworth? That's because it was slashed by 25% last year, election year, funnily enough. And remember, this is the doings of a conservative council.

[Chaos]

And petrol is going to increase by 5p a litre.

How much does petrol cost right now in Britain?

It´s well over 1 Euro per litre in Germany right now, and rising.
Make that 5-6 $ per gallon.

And we still have no sign of unrest over that. There are more important reasons to start unrest. Only we don´t - strange, isn´t it.

Well Bismark used to say in the 1880s that "the German worker does not start revolts, not because he is afraid of a fight, but because his wife would beat him up for it."

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Chaos


How much does petrol cost right now in Britain?

Depending on where you live, around 80p/ltr (about 1 euro 20?).

[Chaos]

Originally posted by BillyTK


Depending on where you live, around 80p/ltr (about 1 euro 20?).

1.20 is about right.

I´m not sure about the exact price, since I don´t have a car, but it should be about the same in Germany.
I can still remember (*sigh*) petrol costing about 0.80-0.90 DM /0.40-0.45 Euro (27-30p) per litre in my childhood; I recall my parents were rather upset when prices rose above 1 DM. Prices tripled within less than 20 years.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Jim Lennox

And petrol is going to increase by 5p a litre.

I'm betting on the fuel increase causing more trouble than the council tax. Lorry drivers are more likely to picket petrol stations than OAPs are wont to riot.



... Is it 5p per litre, or 5p per gallon that is being mooted? I seem to recall that it was the latter, but I could be wrong.

I'd find it hard to believe that they'd seriously consider raising it by 5p per litre, after what happened last time.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by michaellee
If you in the UK are becoming unruly because of tax increases, I am sure you could get the majority of posters here to gladly send you a portion of their paychecks.

Thats because they couldn't sleep at night thinking any government program, either here in the US or abroad, can afford to be cut or have its budget reduced.

What would happen to all of those wonderful government programs, services, employees, red-tape, bureacracy, and that overall great feeling one gets knowing your hard earned tax dollars are going to help those less fortunate.

Haven't you guys read "Robin Hood' over there? It's theme is the basis for all American politicians platforms over here in the US. You know, take from the bloody rich, and give it to the ones in need, while 75% of every tax dollar is spent by the government just to administer the programs that do not work or are a haven for fraud, political payoffs, or a hefty political contribution.

What was the reason America sought independence from England anyway? (They don't teach that part of history in US schools anymore). As the left-leaners say over here, "Raise taxes, raise taxes!! Just don't raise mine. Oh, I don't pay any but how come I am not included in the Bush tax cut? "

Grin and bear it like we have to over here, you will never learn to like it, but the downtrodden will silently love you for it. What consolation eh?

Where have you been all my life!!:clap:

[Reginald]

Originally posted by AfaintcoldcupofTea..


That will cause a backlash. The price in the UK is already ludicrously high.

Yes it is.

The UK is falling apart at the seams.

Based on what??????

And without wanting to appear a Blairite apologist.....



A clear divide is opening up not between the north and south or the rich and poor.

When has there not been one in recent history?? As for rich and poor, there has been a lot of wealth redistribution...talk to anyone getting family tax credits for example. No one with any political or social grasp seriously believes that you should aim to even the wealth out over the populous, what should happen, and is happening to a degree, is that, yes, the rich get richer, but the poor should get richer too. Forget the old vision of "differentials". That's just envy politics.
The Politicians if they don't come back and support the people will find themselves under siege again as per Pensioner dispute of Pensions, the fuel revolt and the fire strikes.

No ultimately they will be voted out of office, it's a wonderful thing democracy is it not??

As for pensioners just a point, it was claimed on TV this very morning that 2/3 of them don't claim benefits that they are legally entitled to. The suggested answer from the "OAP Spokesman" was that these benefits should be made available to everyone over the right age..........in saying that he is including Sir ex-CEO of Big company on 200,000 gbp a year pension, and yet complaints are made about the rich getting richer by the very same people?? :rolleyes:


London needs to be crippled for those in their pink palaces to wake up and smell the peasants and come back down to earth.
Vive la revolution.

Again, if people don't like it, they can vote for the other person, at council level, county level or parliamentary level.

[Mike B.]

In general,
What would this mean for the Liberal Democrats?

Since Kennedy campaigns on higher taxes for government services.

[michaellee]

Originally posted by Kodiak

Where have you been all my life!!

I have been, lets say, keeping an eye on the minority skeptic crowd.

You know who they are. How they are defined is a different story.
They are either-

1. Those evil, awful, non-compassionate, right-wing, anti-government, liberal hating, pro tax cuts and breaks for the rich, screw the poor, Clinton hating, anti-American skeptics who post at the JREF.

or

2. Those patriotic, liberty and freedom loving, Constitution aware, principaled, believe in actually enforcing and following the law of the land instead of misinterpreting or completely ignoring it, just would like our politicians to at least pretend to "swear to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States" oath they take, taxation with representation, anti-federal spending waste, Clinton hating, defend America skeptics who post at the JREF.

Which one are you?
I enjoy reading more than posting, as most of the discussions and arguments between the "left and right" seem to not cover the low-level, heart of the matter issues, but go back and forth over minute details, ignoring the root causes and covering mostly symptomatic problems that occur after the fact.

I applaud almost all of those who post here as most write and post from the heart- even though I may disagree with a few of them. It's also fun to see how the "left" outnumbers the few "right" here at the JREF, and of course, who can forget Jedi Knight. This is a great place to read, post, vent, or laugh.

[Reginald]

Originally posted by Mike B.
In general,
What would this mean for the Liberal Democrats?

Since Kennedy campaigns on higher taxes for government services.

Yes good question.

Given that the Conservatives are (IMO) not yet being ready for power and some degree of unhappiness with the Current PM and Gov. The the Liberal Democrats can only benefit.

Their saving attribute (again IMO) is that they at least have the honesty to say they will raise taxes as and when required. This gives people a clear choice. The clarity of choice between the current Gov and the Tory party in waiting (A tory party that seems to want to emmulate the current Gov.) is getting ever more cloudy.

The party that would fare best would be one in which, when a mistake is made, the responsible person stands in the commons and says "Yep...made a hash of that, but we have learned by the mistake..sorry". I also firmly believe that the inclusion of members of other parties in a gov would be the way to go. Just because you subscribe generally to a political philosophy does not mean that every idea you have is invalid as viewed by the opposite party.

As to the likelyhood of the Lib-Dems doing any of this, or indeed, ever being in a possition to do any of this, is yet to be seen.

My politics is very middling, but I do pride myself on recognising a good idea when submitted, from whatever side of the house it comes. I believe these things can be achieved without resorting to proportional representation, that's a thing that I am not at ease with, but that is only because I'm not fully sure I understand it. I know however, that it is a major part of Lib-Dem policy.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Mike B.
In general,
What would this mean for the Liberal Democrats?

Since Kennedy campaigns on higher taxes for government services.


... The Lib Dems have just voted to abolish the council tax, which is the one that is causing the fuss. I imagine they're intending to replace it with a local area income tax which is (after all) a much fairer tax to levy.

Originally posted by Reg.
,
The party that would fare best would be one in which, when a mistake is made, the responsible person stands in the commons and says "Yep...made a hash of that, but we have learned by the mistake..sorry".


Actually, one of the things I do like about the current government is that they're often prepared to suggest a particular policy, then actually listen when everyone comments on it. If there are sensible or vociferous attacks on the policy, they are happy to say "Okay, we won't do that then"*. Of course, they are then pilloried by the press and opposition for making "A U-Turn".

*Iraq being the exception to this, naturally....

[BillyTK]

Interesting editorial in the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1045990,00.html) on Saturday which suggests that despite the Liberals' success with Brentford Nylons (my sic), they don't stand a chance of being elected, as New Labour's move to the political center has usurped their position and (much of their) support. Brent East is therefore a slap in the face for Blair rather than genuine switch of support to the Lib Dems, and there's not enough room on the political stage for two centrist parties, particularly when one of them has had no significant experience of power for nearly a century.

[Kodiak]

Originally posted by michaellee
I have been, lets say, keeping an eye on the minority skeptic crowd.

You know who they are. How they are defined is a different story.
They are either-

1. Those evil, awful, non-compassionate, right-wing, anti-government, liberal hating, pro tax cuts and breaks for the rich, screw the poor, Clinton hating, anti-American skeptics who post at the JREF.

or

2. Those patriotic, liberty and freedom loving, Constitution aware, principaled, believe in actually enforcing and following the law of the land instead of misinterpreting or completely ignoring it, just would like our politicians to at least pretend to "swear to defend and uphold the Constitution of the United States" oath they take, taxation with representation, anti-federal spending waste, Clinton hating, defend America skeptics who post at the JREF.

Which one are you?

Depends on who you ask... ;)

I'll let you decide for yourself. You can find my posts mostly in either the "banter" or "politics" sections.