Creationist museum auctioning mastodon skull

[Furious Coder]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/17/mastodon.skull.ap/index.html

There's a museum outside of Lubbock, TX that is in financial dire straits, and if they don't sell this mastodon skull, the museum will be siezed and the assets will be sold.

Maybe they should pray harder? ;)

[m_huber]

Humorous..

The founder and curator of the Mt. Blanco Fossil Museum, which rejects evolution and claims that man and dinosaurs coexisted, said it will close unless the Volkswagen-sized skull finds a generous bidder.
Heritage Auction Galleries says the skull is estimated to be 40,000 years old, and projects it will fetch upward of $160,000.

So the earth is 6000 years old, except when it being 40,000 years old is worth $160,000.

[X]

There was a mommoth skeleton, along with many tusks and other bones and skeletons for sale a few months back.
Here's the site (http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/)
Here's the mammoth and some tusks (http://www.arizonaskiesmeteorites.com/AZ_Skies_Links/Mammoth_Tusks/index.html)

I happen to have a 6" section of mammoth (or is it mastodon?) tusk. My father was working up norht many years ago, and they came across a bed of tusks. He was able to keep a small one to give to myself and my sister. We each got roughly 6 inches of it. The local museum estimated it at about 40-50,000 years old.
One day, I would like to get it carved, or used as a handle on a custom smallsword.

I wonder if this in indicative of the niche-ness of such a museum?

[Dragon]

Humorous..




So the earth is 6000 years old, except when it being 40,000 years old is worth $160,000.

If I was rich enough to spare the $160,000 I'd buy it - so long as they provided proof of it's age ...

[UnrepentantSinner]

If I was rich enough to spare the $160,000 I'd buy it - so long as they provided proof of it's age ...

Heritage is one of the premier auction houses in "flyover country" here in the states. I'm sure they'd even have a piece of it dated by paleontologists for you if you put in a winning bid.

[Deetee]

I think Dragon was referring to the schadenfraude and delicious irony that would result when a creationist has to wrestle with his inner demons and prove the skull is 40000 years old......

[Lothian]

Perhaps an offer of $4 a year would be appropriate.

[tsg]

If I had any interest in the skull, I'd wait until the government seized it and buy it cheap.

[Juustin]

I checked their website quickly, and didn't find any claims they make as to the age of the earth, except that "millions of years" is not correct. Does anyone have a link where they state they are "young earth" types (as in, say 6,000-10,000 years)?

I'm sure they're probably just being vague to avoid having to back up their claims with evidence.

[tsg]

I checked their website quickly, and didn't find any claims they make as to the age of the earth, except that "millions of years" is not correct. Does anyone have a link where they state they are "young earth" types (as in, say 6,000-10,000 years)?

I'm sure they're probably just being vague to avoid having to back up their claims with evidence.

From here (http://mtblanco.com/AboutUs.htm).

MT. BLANCO FOSSIL MUSEUM
The Mt. Blanco Fossil Museum is a scientific and educational institution dedicated to a correct interpretation of Earth history and fossil remains. We believe that the fossil record speaks of catastrophic events happening several thousand years ago rather than slow processes taking place over millions or billions of years as is held by the popular establishment.

And here (http://mtblanco.com/Q_and_A.htm)

Q. Is Mt Blanco Fossil Museum a religious organization?

A. We are a science museum, showing facts and data about the actual fossils in the museum. We believe that evolution is an old-fashioned theory not substantiated by facts, and that what the Bible says is more scientifically accurate. Our museum shows that there was a worldwide flood only a few thousand years ago. We show that most species are not getting more complex or larger. There are also numerous specimens that show most fossils were buried rapidly.

[sphenisc]

Obviously elephants are older than the Earth, or else how could it rest on their backs?

[Juustin]

I just notice that though they say the flood happened "a few thousand years ago", they don't put any suggestion as to their guess for the age of the earth. Which of course, gives them a convenient get-out-of-explaining-yourself card for selling a 40,000 year old skull.

[Spock Jenkins]

To be fair - Heritage Auction Galleries says the skull is 40,000 years old, not the museum. If I'm the museum owner, I'm thinking - what the heck - if that's what they want to believe - I'll sell it for $160,000.

Wonder what them suckers would pay for the stack of yellow rocks I got in the store room?

[tsg]

I just notice that though they say the flood happened "a few thousand years ago", they don't put any suggestion as to their guess for the age of the earth. Which of course, gives them a convenient get-out-of-explaining-yourself card for selling a 40,000 year old skull.

It's not iron-clad evidence, but it does suggest they are trying to support the notion that the earth is thousands, not billions, of years old.

There is also another claim that the bible is more scientifically accurate than the theory of evolution.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I think Dragon was referring to the schadenfraude and delicious irony that would result when a creationist has to wrestle with his inner demons and prove the skull is 40000 years old......

Of course. My post was a knee jerk reaction to my perception that people might think everyone in Texas is a YEC rube. The irony was indeed delicious and Dragon deserves kudos for pointing it out. :)

Which brings me to this post...

To be fair - Heritage Auction Galleries says the skull is 40,000 years old, not the museum. If I'm the museum owner, I'm thinking - what the heck - if that's what they want to believe - I'll sell it for $160,000.

Wonder what them suckers would pay for the stack of yellow rocks I got in the store room?

The bidders at Heritage Auction Galleries would probably ask for an assay of those yellow rocks before making a bid. And if any YECs were to bid on the remains, I don't think they'd really care about what Heritage claimed the age of it was, they'd be bidding for the penache of owning a {Texan mode} Gen-you-wine {/Texan mode} mammoth skull that they could claim resulted from The Flood.

Bidders who weren't driven by theological agenda though would love for the skull to be 40,000 years old and would show it off to their friends - assuming the winning bidder wasn't a legitimate scholatic institution - as being that old.

Hell, at the Texas State Fair a while back I purchased some fossils from the Devonian and Ordovician, the informational tag of which listed their ages as being hundreds of millions of years ago. Interestingly enough, the seller didn't have any yellow rocks for sale. :mad:

[steenkh]

I think they are letting go of a great opportunity to sell the only mammoth skull bleived to be only 6,000 years old! :)

[m_huber]

I wonder how legitimate museums will respond to this. A skull like that really is rare, and it appears from the photos to be in excellent condition, with all of the work already done on preserving it. However, the money will be going to a creationist museum, and creationists in Texas are already receiving national attention from educational institutions for the whole Chris Comer thing. Lots to think about for museums.

[ravdin]

Obviously elephants are older than the Earth, or else how could it rest on their backs?

You're wrong. The earth rests on the back of a giant turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle... and it's turtles all the way down.

[tsg]

You're wrong. The earth rests on the back of a giant turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle... and it's turtles all the way down.

The elephants stand on the turtle.

[joobz]

Of course. My post was a knee jerk reaction to my perception that people might think everyone in Texas is a YEC rube. The irony was indeed delicious and Dragon deserves kudos for pointing it out. :)
That's why it'd be funny to get a signed document from the Curator that he attests to the accurate age of the fossil. In so doing, he isolates himself from the other creationist museums.
And you have arguing power with YECs by saying you have a signed document from a curator of a creationist museum that the earth is older than 6000 years.

[Lothian]

The elephants stand on the turtle.otherwise the world would roll off the turtles convex shell. Balancing straight on a turtle, pah, the silly things people believe. Still not as silly as being created out of nothing 6000 years ago by an entity that was itself not created. What is that about?

[m_huber]

That's why it'd be funny to get a signed document from the Curator that he attests to the accurate age of the fossil. In so doing, he isolates himself from the other creationist museums.
And you have arguing power with YECs by saying you have a signed document from a curator of a creationist museum that the earth is older than 6000 years.

The odd thing is, The significance of a low-level authority figure who claims to be a creationist and who has little if any scientific training to a creationist is greater than the significance of hundreds of scientists who have made their life work out of dealing with the age of the earth.

[joobz]

The odd thing is, The significance of a low-level authority figure who claims to be a creationist and who has little if any scientific training to a creationist is greater than the significance of hundreds of scientists who have made their life work out of dealing with the age of the earth.
Well, of course. The creationist has faith. And with Faith, you can move mountains. It's just too bad that you can't pay the bank with faith.

[X]

You're wrong. The earth rests on the back of a giant turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle... and it's turtles all the way down.

So, in the beginning, there was Mack?

[skeptical]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/01/17/mastodon.skull.ap/index.html

There's a museum outside of Lubbock, TX that is in financial dire straits, and if they don't sell this mastodon skull, the museum will be siezed and the assets will be sold.

Maybe they should pray harder? ;)

Wow, if I only had $160K.......I'd eat it a penny at a time before I'd give one red cent to a creationist endeavor. As someone else pointed out, you can probably get it cheaper once this farce goes under anyway.

[tracer]

Wonder what them suckers would pay for the stack of yellow rocks I got in the store room?

That depends on whether those yellow rocks give a reading on a Geiger counter. :eek:

[korenyx]

You're wrong. The earth rests on the back of a giant turtle, which is standing on the back of another turtle... and it's turtles all the way down.


Down to what? :confused:

[Molinaro]

Hmmm...

Maybe I should buy it, grind it up into 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000 doses to sell to men with wee problems. :blush:

[ohms]

Hmmm...

Maybe I should buy it, grind it up into 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,00 0,000 doses to sell to men with wee problems. :blush:

Surely that would be a homeopathic cure for elephantiasis? :duck:

[tsg]

Down to what? :confused:

The last turtle.

[UnrepentantSinner]

I think they are letting go of a great opportunity to sell the only mammoth skull bleived to be only 6,000 years old! :)

4,000, since it clearly died in the Flooooooood!

That's why it'd be funny to get a signed document from the Curator that he attests to the accurate age of the fossil. In so doing, he isolates himself from the other creationist museums.
And you have arguing power with YECs by saying you have a signed document from a curator of a creationist museum that the earth is older than 6000 years.

It's not like, when it comes to making money, they don't compromise on all sorts of stuff like John Woodmorappe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Woodmorappe). Duplicitous turds.

[X]

;3350450']So, in the beginning, there was Mack?

The last turtle.

Did you never read Suess? Yeesh. :D


And back to OP, so I don't get yelled at: I'm sure the curator and museum mamnagement could doublethink their way out of having ot attest to the age of the specimen in order to get the money.

And I will admit I never thought about the fact that buying this piece of history will have the unfortunate consequence of funding another source of myth-trying-to-pretend-to-be-science. Kind of sobering, that thought.

[Lothian]

4,000, since it clearly died in the Flooooooood!You clearly have not read the museum's Q&A (http://mtblanco.com/Q_and_A.htm)Q. Do you think Noah took dinosaurs on the ark?

A. Absolutely. We can show you why.

[UnrepentantSinner]

You clearly have not read the museum's Q&A (http://mtblanco.com/Q_and_A.htm)

You can't fool me - mammoths aren't dinosaurs!!!11!1!

[Lothian]

You can't fool me - mammoths aren't dinosaurs!!!11!1!Oh you are right mammoths were around 65 million years after the dinorsaurs....... This must be a fossil from the future. Is that right my maths is a bit ropey.
.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Oh you are right mammoths were around 65 million years after the dinorsaurs....... This must be a fossil from the future. Is that right my maths is a bit ropey.

That cinches it! Your time travelling "65 million year old" mammothosaur fossils could only have been planted during the Flood by The Deceiver, Satan, the Devil, 4,000 years ago to fool us.

(Note to lurkers, this response is only slightly less crazy than some of the ones I have heard Creationists give to evidence for evolution, palentology and standard geology{as opposed to so called "Flood Geology"}).

[tsg]

;3351757']Did you never read Suess? Yeesh. :D

Yes, but I've read Prachett more recently, so that's what comes to mind.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Local media did a story in the skull the other night and the spokeman for Heritage gave me hope. It's their desire that a museum or benifactor will win the auction and display in/donate the skull to a proper science based museum.

[biomorph]

Seems to me they are up the creek without a paddle whether they sell it or not.

Either they do a deal with the "opposition" or die. I guess they reckon they can deal with the flack from the sale better than going bust. Money talks, and with the sale they can chat for ages.

A reality check is probably not on the agenda though.