New Computer finally works great... when not shutting itself off!

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

So dear hubby knowing my need for speed and memory storage got me a refurbished Gateway desktop for Christmas because my new video editing software took five minutes just to start on older computer.

It took it a bit to get going. First the McAfee antivirus on it caused the blue screen of death on startup. So he flattened it, removed the Gateway image (with all the AOL, game and other spurious crud it came with), and reloaded it with the system disc that came with it.

Except that the system decided that it would only connect to the internet for a few minutes after it was booted up. I would be checking out websites, but then a half hour later it would not receive any more pages from the internet. I did find that if I had streaming video (I had the homeopathy debate with Steven Novella running in the corner while I worked on Quicken) I could keep in contact with the internet, but once it was over I lost internet after about 10 minutes. I also went to www.archive.net (http://www.archive.net) and downloaded a 4.7 mpeg2 movie, which did complete in about 10 hours. Yet while it was still downloading, I could not connect to the internet. :covereyes

So hubby bought a new network card, installed it... and all was fine. He also installed my 300 Gb external SATA drive that needed a card slot in the back (which is holding 11 Gb of family photos, more than that of music files (I ripped our 20 year collection of rock and roll CD collection for hubby a couple years ago) and several times that in family movie files... which I also have backed up in a notebook full of DVDs, and their original tapes). So finally, I could get unlimited internet access.

But for some strange reason the system shut itself off. I only had a webpage and Quicken on, nothing special. So I turned it on, it did not even tell me it had shut down unexpectedly. So I decided to test it, and put my new video software to work on the movie I had downloaded (Roxio Creative Suite 10, the movie is Danny Kaye in "The Inspector General). It worked perfectly, the movie was rendered and written in just over an hour. I turned it off just before we went out to dinner.

Unfortunately that system disk was missing the driver software for the multimedia card (TV tuner, S-video and RCA video/audio jacks). Gateway not only did not include that driver on the system disk, but also not on their support webpage. We did find it on the card's manufacturer page (where there was a Gateway user comment that it wasn't included with his system disk either!). So that got fixed.

Now I have a computer that can pull in and record HDTV signals through an antenna. Edit video without skipping a beat, and is just really cool.

Until it decides to turn itself off. Which it did twice last night.

The first time was when I was on Quicken (I have lots of stuff to catch up on after the holidays) and one webpage. Hubby thought I hit a wrong key. So got it up again, and hubby checked the bios (fixed it to give an overheat alarm... the CPU temp was under 50 degrees C) and was going, then decided to leave it to talk to hubby. I came back and it turned itself off again.

AARGH!

So I made sure I had all my work backed up. I think we are going to send it back. Especially since Gateway support is not very helpful. Apparently they don't support factory refurbished machines, even though they have a 90 day guarantee from Gateway! (Hubby was frustrated with HP support, so he bought Gateway, only to find they were even more frustrating!)

Does anyone have any idea why a system would just shut itself off? All I can think of is a bum power supply, or a hardware conflict with the installed external SATA drive.

[Rat]

Only thing (or at least first thing) that springs to mind is a dodgy PSU. Do you not have a spare you can try with, or would that invalidate the warranty?

[sophia8]

Have you checked that the monitor is running at the correct refresh rate for that model? I recently had a similar problem when I used a new monitor - the wrong refresh rate can cause your hardware to do all sorts of strange things (although you usually get 'snow' on the screen and error messages as well).

[Skeptical Greg]

Is it really shutting of or just going into some kind of power saving mode ?

Check the power settings in the Control Panel ..

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

What is a PSU?

Power settings were checked. It is definitely powering off. When son's computer goes into power saving mode just vibrating the floor in his room turns it back on.

Monitor? It is a flat screen, and we went through the system's set up to make movies show better through Windows Media Center.

This evening the SATA drive was removed (it required a slot in the back for installation). So I started up the movie "Last Man on Earth" from www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org) an it went dead, again.

So, I've been told to log on, and see if it powers down again.

Edit to add, thanks guys. I'm going to leave it a while and go study for my class tomorrow.

[Skeptical Greg]

PSU = Power Supply Unit

The little box that the A.C. connects to ...

If it is underpowered, some ativity that loads the graphic card or CPU could be tripping it, sort of like a circuit breaker..

What type of processor and graphics card do you have ?

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Ah, yes... of course, PSU is the power supply.

Computer specs:

3 ghz AMD Athlon 64x2 Duel Core processor, 6000+

NVIDIA GeForce 8500GT

2048 Mb DDR2 Memory
500 Gb STAT II Hard Drive

That is from the box. It decided to shut itself down again. This time I decided to play a youtube video. Click. Off!

The thing that archive.org streaming videos and youtube videos have in common is the use of Shockwave Flash (I downloaded from www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org), but I believe I got the latest version because it included the Google toolbar --- by the way the Seattle Google office is in same neighborhood as the Seattle Adobe office, a freaky area called "Fremont, the Center of the Universe"). It is not cool when a super duper multimedia computer flakes out when a Youtube video starts!

Things to check now is to see if there is an update to the video card driver, and to see if there is an update to Shockwave Flash. Ooops, just checked, it is now Adobe Shockwave Player!

Again, thanks.

[yairhol]

As a first measure I would go into start -> settings -> control panel -> system -> hardware and go to the hardware tab. then go to device manager and check if all of the hardware is working properly (are you working on windows? if so which version? if not then I don't know).

Regards,
Yair

[yairhol]

What you described now could be a PSU problem. the video card demands more power when playing videos. If the PSU cannot provide that power, the system might shut down.

Anyone know of a simple way to check if the PSU is providing enough Wattage to the system?

Regards,
Yair

[Dragon]

It might be a processor temperature problem - if it gets too hot then the system switches the computer off to prevent the processor from frying. I recently had the same issue on this very PC. The solution was to remove the heatsink and fan, clean off the old thermal compound (which had deteriorated) and put some new stuff on. I also cleaned out all the dust from the heatsink vanes.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Thanks.

The temperature was checked, and it was only 50oC. The settings were set to give an alarm at 75oC and shutoff at 80oC.

The funny thing about driving graphics is that it would run WinDVD, Windows Media Center, Windows Media Player and the several options in Roxio Creative Suite for mpeg2 and mpeg4 (which was only available in preview sections of the myDVD portions of Roxio Creative Suite). After we set up the TV tuner, it pulled in HDTV programming and was able to play, pause and fast forward just like our DVR. The mpeg2, DVD and TV signal video can play full screen. I was also able to play the archived video (http://mediasite.uchc.edu/Mediasite41/Viewer/Viewers/Viewer240TR.aspx?mode=Default&peid=407916ea-6301-4ede-b04f-c3650e4073a7&pid=cb4535b1-6610-4f6f-9c47-89f4114476ec&playerType=WM64Lite)of the homeopathy debate at Univ. of Connecticut without a problem.

The only graphics player it seemed to cause the power shut down is the player at http://www.archive.org/details/feature_films (where I downloaded Shockwave Player from), and www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com) (which also uses Shockwave Player), which only play a teeny tiny screen.

It is running Windows Vista Home Premium.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Well it looks like a crummy power supply. It started out as intermittent, but when hubby tried to even check out drivers it would shut down after a half hour, then in 5 minutes and now about every two minutes.

It looks like he will remove the network he put in, get it back to the hardware that came with it. Check it out, and then send it back (after I delete some personal files) asking them to fix the network interface and power supply.

Grrrrr....

[Beerina]

It could be the graphics processor temp, too. I have an old ATi Radeon one that, even cleaned up, still overheats unless I have the side of the computer off with a little Honeywell tornado fan blowing on it. Their testing for more modern 3D game usage was a little lax.

I also have a laptop that will sometimes shut off because the pads underneath are so short there isn't enough clearance for the air holes underneath, evidently.

[Shoogar]

Dodgy memory can cause that kind of problem too.

[JonnyFive]

I had a similar problem with my computer (home-built) that turned out to be due to my el cheapo power supply (it came free with my case) and the fact I had added some hardware that took more power than when I first built the system. I replaced it with something more reliable and the problem vanished.

Given that you recently added a network card and external HD, both of which draw more power off the system, it might be that your current PSU isn't that good at providing enough power under load.

If it is a PSU issue then what happens is that the PSU, when under too much of a load, fails to provide sufficient power to the main board connector, which shuts the computer off when not powered sufficiently. It will turn on fine, because the computer doesn't turn on with a full power load, and it won't give you any kind of warning before a shutdown.

GPU overheating, in my experience, usually leads to artifacts on the screen and tends to hard lock the machine instead of shutting it off like you describe. Similarly, issues with the CPU getting too hot seem to generally slow the system first, then lock it. If it's just shutting off without warning, I'd look at the PSU first and see if swapping it does any good.

Anyhow, if this thing isn't covered by support or a warranty that would be voided by swapping hardware out, installing a new PSU is quite simple, and they're not very expensive.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

I had a similar problem with my computer (home-built) that turned out to be due to my el cheapo power supply (it came free with my case) and the fact I had added some hardware that took more power than when I first built the system. I replaced it with something more reliable and the problem vanished.

Given that you recently added a network card and external HD, both of which draw more power off the system, it might be that your current PSU isn't that good at providing enough power under load.

....

First the external hard drive was removed. The shut off problem remained.

Then the new network card was removed. The shut off problem went away. It could have been the PSU, or a hardware conflict or a driver problem.

Only now it is back to dropping internet connection after about 10 to 30 minutes. Though if a streaming video is running it stays connected.

Hubby is thinking of putting the new network card in the slot that the external hard drive was connected to to see if it fixes internet problem without causing the sudden shut downs.

[yairhol]

You should strip the computer down to its bare minimum and work your way up from there. Take out (with full uninstall) all the add-on hardware. Everything. See if the computer runs o.k. without shutting off. Start adding one hardware at a time along with installing its newest drivers. Work with that for a while and see what happens. and so on

[SezMe]

So dear hubby knowing my need for speed ...
Damn broads can never make up their minds. :) :)

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

You should strip the computer down to its bare minimum and work your way up from there. Take out (with full uninstall) all the add-on hardware. Everything. See if the computer runs o.k. without shutting off. Start adding one hardware at a time along with installing its newest drivers. Work with that for a while and see what happens. and so on

Underway right now.

Damn broads can never make up their minds. :) :)

I know what I want... speed and lots of memory, and lots and lots of gigabytes of storage. I really want more than a terabyte.

This flakey machine has a 500 Gb SATA drive, and I have a 300 Gb external SATA. It does have a slot in the front for a small in size SATA drive. We have to check out what those are, and if it worthwhile. I presently back up on another pair of external hard drives using either the firewire or USB ports.

By the way one of the things I have done is digitize some of our old laserdisk movies (they are not copy protected). I have placed several on DVD format. They are only for our own use, since we bought them in the first place and we are keeping them in our video library for use. We replaced some of the movies with actual DVDs, since the ones from the laserdisks do not have the same resolution.

One thing that I've done is convert one of the laserdisk movie to a format to be watched on son's Zune player. He wants me to do the same with our old version of Star Wars (the high quality one where there is only about a half hour of video per laserdisk side).

Plus editing the 12 digital video tapes my brother gave me, they are all the home movies taken by my father and grandfather (included my mother as a teenager playing in the snow in 1940).

My first machine to handle video editing is the laptop I am presently using. It is about four to five years old. For a school project my son was doing on family history I took some of the home movie tapes from my brother and created a DVD of the film my dad took during his Army career (on board a ship on the way to Korea during Korean War, rifle and jeep driving in Colorado, jungle training in Panama, firing off howitzers in Texas, etc). It took this little laptop six hours to render the two hours to a DVD file. The desktop computer I am trying to replace took about the same two hours for a two hour video... this new flaky computer did it in about an hour.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Well, here is an idea... to fix a problem (internet dropping out) hubby bought an inexpensive network card. It turns out that card may have a conflict or a design error causing the shutoff.

Because when it was removed the shut off problems went away. When it was re-installed into a different motherboard slot, the shut off problems returned. It did not matter what driver, or if the other network hardware was activated or not.

So... it was removed. The computer would stay on... but decide to drop internet access after a few minutes.

Next step: hubby is going to buy a network card that costs more than $20 and is not sitting on a high shelf like it is being ignored. Also, a network card with a recognizable brand name like D-Link or Linksys (I don't know what brand he actually got, but I suspect it was from a company called "Piece of Worthless Junk Assembled By Untrained Monkeys From Mars"). Edit to add: I originally had some other name written down, but thought better when I realized it might violate a forum rule (it used to be Rule 8, but now I believe it is something along the line of 11 or 12 or 4242).

Reminder: I need speed, lots of storage and access to the internet (hubby thought it was cool when I could bring up the image of canceled checks from our bank).

[a_unique_person]

got me a refurbished Gateway desktop for Christmas



There should be some sort of warranty on the machine. I would send it back. It could be anything. CPU, memory, motherboard, RAM.

[JonnyFive]

First the external hard drive was removed. The shut off problem remained.

Then the new network card was removed. The shut off problem went away. It could have been the PSU, or a hardware conflict or a driver problem.

Only now it is back to dropping internet connection after about 10 to 30 minutes. Though if a streaming video is running it stays connected.

Hubby is thinking of putting the new network card in the slot that the external hard drive was connected to to see if it fixes internet problem without causing the sudden shut downs.

Given this and your post below, it still sounds like a cruddy PSU issue to me. A hardware conflict is unlikely to cause a sudden and unprompted shutdown of the computer. If you're dealing with a hardware conflict, more likely than not the hardware in question simply won't work. At worst, it might cause random crashes, locks, or BSOD on startup to Windows.

It wouldn't hurt to buy a decent network card, I suppose.

Do you happen to know what the wattage on your PSU is and the brand of the unit?

[Beerina]

It's also possible your Internet connection itself is having problems.

We were having issues where the connection dropped after some number of minutes and picked up later. Comcast came out, and it turned out the installers had not grounded the connection properly. (Which is to say, that, mercifully, it was an "outside the wall" problem that they covered the cost for.)

So you may just have 2 separate issues.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

No, the internet connection in the house is just fine. All of the other five computers are working. Actually, I've pretty much only been on my laptop (see description above).

Though, with the cruddy network card once lost internet, it seemed to put in a spike though the network cable into the router and caused the wireless system to go batty. The computers that had network cable connections were okay. We turned the router off overnight, and it was okay the next day.

Right now it is being reconfigured from Vista to XP.

One of my major problems with this computer is that dear hubby bought a reconditioned computer. My feeling is that there is a reason the machine was returned, and I'm not sure the faulty hardware was actually repaired, or that all the faulty software was removed.

The other major problem is that dear hubby is a computer engineer who seems to be in his element trying to find out what is wrong. So it takes forever. The last time he built a system from parts he went nuts trying to get it to work, only to find out he had a hard drive that would not work due to manufacturing errors. He exchanged it for a working one, and the system worked.

Of course, one of the reason that was the last system he built from scratch is that when he added up all the parts for a new system, it was more than ordering a custom system from the various companies that build to order. So he returned all the bits to their places at Fry's, went online and discovered reconditioned computers were even cheaper.

Much to my dismay.

[a_unique_person]

dear hubby bought a reconditioned computer.

As far as I can tell, "reconditioned" merely means "we wiped it with a cloth wet with cleaning alcohol". Usually, however, they do come with a short warranty in case of faults. That is, it's cheaper and easier for them to just replace it with another computer, that also has had nothing done to it.

[JonnyFive]

Of course, one of the reason that was the last system he built from scratch is that when he added up all the parts for a new system, it was more than ordering a custom system from the various companies that build to order. So he returned all the bits to their places at Fry's, went online and discovered reconditioned computers were even cheaper.

I'm surprised the price of the components exceeded the price of a custom system with the same specs. Generally, you can get a pretty good deal off places like Newegg and Tigerdirect online if you're willing to wait for the shipping.

Any more news on the computer? Any luck fixing the problem yet?

Also, if you happen to know the wattage and brand of the power supply, I'd be curious.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Actually, I believe it was the cost of the components and the level of frustration. We had gathered up components at Fry's the last time. He has bought several things at Tigerdirect (which is where this refurbished machine came from).

It seems the price of seperate components have been going up. Network cards that used to cost about $10 are now at about $20 to $30.

Okay, an update... With XP loaded on the internet connection was stable (it only dropped out of internet, it was still able to connect to the rest of the home network). That was great, except that there was no driver for the sound card. I had a fully functioning yet silent multimedia machine.

Since he was unable to completely format the system under Vista, he wiped it with XP. He did find an updated BIOS, so he took an image and then flashed the BIOS. He then reloaded Vista.

He removed all extra hardware (I get to return another network card), put the modem card back in.

It ran all day Sunday and Monday without dropping internet. We ran several www.archive.org (http://www.archive.org) movies, checked blogs throughout the day, checked news... I noticed he checked Tigerdirect for computers and elsewhere for patio furniture. I read JREF forum without logging on. It was stable.

So yesterday he loaded on Acronis (back up software), and today he made an emergency start-up CD. He will next go through the process of creating the profiles (there is mine which is password protected, and the family profile that is not password protected but is a limited account --- that is so when daughter's friends need to borrow the machine the chances of them downloading spyware is hampered). Then he should be re-installing the external SATA drive (it requires a card slot in the back).

Unfortunately, he is sick today, so working on the machine is limited today. No matter, I have a midterm to study for, so I need to stay away (even turn off this laptop!). Because I next have to load on the software, connect the slide scanner, VCR and laserdisk player. Then bring over the files from the old computer (by the way, we found it quicker and easier to move all data files to an external hard drive, delete them from the old computer and THEN use the Vista transfer utililty).

We are speculating that there was some random file left on the machine during the removing of the Gateway config and restoring it with the provided system disk which we finally wiped when it was running XP. OR (and this is more likely), the updated BIOS solved the problem.

By the way, here is the picture of my old computer and setup. This is before I added the VCR. To the right is the slidescanner, which is sitting on top of the laserdisk player. I have managed to scan about a third of our slides, and my in-laws occasionally bring over a box of theirs to scan. At least with scanning slides I can run a small internet video. With the old computer when I downloaded video I had to disconnect it from the network to prevent frame dropping while some program checked out for updates (usually the anti-virus).

[yairhol]

What's that box on the left with the holes on top?

[greyleonard]

It's a Porta-Trace lightbox with slides on top. :)

[yairhol]

I'm glad to see HC's room is messier than mine. :p

[JonnyFive]

Actually, I believe it was the cost of the components and the level of frustration. We had gathered up components at Fry's the last time. He has bought several things at Tigerdirect (which is where this refurbished machine came from).

It seems the price of seperate components have been going up. Network cards that used to cost about $10 are now at about $20 to $30.

Why a network card, anyway? Most modern motherboards have a 10/100 or gigabyte ethernet port or two built into them already. Is the one on board dead or something, or is it an older board without an integrated ethernet card?

I don't know where you bought that network card, but Newegg has their cheap network cards for under $5, and the known-brand gigabyte cards for around $20.

Cheap one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833180004).

Less cheap one (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833122133).

Sorry that you guys got crap with the refurb. Unforunately, that is often code for "other people's problems."

(snip)

So yesterday he loaded on Acronis (back up software), and today he made an emergency start-up CD. He will next go through the process of creating the profiles (there is mine which is password protected, and the family profile that is not password protected but is a limited account --- that is so when daughter's friends need to borrow the machine the chances of them downloading spyware is hampered). Then he should be re-installing the external SATA drive (it requires a card slot in the back).

(snip)

Sounds good. I'm glad you were able to deal with the instability issues. Let us know if it does the shutdown thing again after you stick any hardware back on.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Why a network card, anyway? Most modern motherboards have a 10/100 or gigabyte ethernet port or two built into them already. Is the one on board dead or something, or is it an older board without an integrated ethernet card?...

Because it seemed the network card built in the motherboard was not working, it was dropping the internet after about a half hour.

Also, the more expensive one was more expensive.

I'm just going on the prices we paid in the last month, and what happened a couple of years ago. I think after building his last machine and found he had picked up a bad hard drive and dealing with the frustration, he has decided the economics of building his own box is not worth it. This is a guy who made his first homebuilt in the early 1980s. It had an 8" floppy drive, ran CPM and he had to cut out the holes in the side of the box for cable access. He also ruined a glass baking pan by using it to etch a board.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

I'm glad to see HC's room is messier than mine. :p

Glad to make you so happy. What you don't see are the boxes of photos and video tapes just out of view. The piles of financial receipts and statements (there are so many usernames and passwords I am willing to deal with for electronic documents). It gets worse when I have to share it with teenage daughter. She occasionally sets up her laptop on the nearby table and then brings in more stuff.

The room has a door and can be closed to hide the mess.

[JonnyFive]

Because it seemed the network card built in the motherboard was not working, it was dropping the internet after about a half hour.

That makes sense. You mentioned you used the modem successfully, but did the reinstall of Windows fix the dropping on the onboard network controller?

I'm just going on the prices we paid in the last month, and what happened a couple of years ago. I think after building his last machine and found he had picked up a bad hard drive and dealing with the frustration, he has decided the economics of building his own box is not worth it. This is a guy who made his first homebuilt in the early 1980s. It had an 8" floppy drive, ran CPM and he had to cut out the holes in the side of the box for cable access. He also ruined a glass baking pan by using it to etch a board.

Yeah, it can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.

Another option in the future is buying a bare bones system from somewhere like Tigerdirect or Newegg? They'll put the mobo, processor, case, and power supply (sometimes) together, and you just fill in the gaps (usually meaning a hard drive and OS, video card, sound card, and RAM).

Anyway, given my funtastic experience of trying to do a Vista upgrade install on top of XP that kept failing after three hours because of Daemon tools existing... I know how frustrating this kind of crap can be.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

That makes sense. You mentioned you used the modem successfully, but did the reinstall of Windows fix the dropping on the onboard network controller?

The reinstall with the new BIOS seemed to fix the problem with the onboard network controller (also clearing the drive of any cruddy code in XP, something that really can't be done well with Vista). The modem card has never been used. It was removed to free up a slot for another card. It may stay in since there is is a free slot for the SATA drive.



Yeah, it can be a real pain in the ass sometimes.

Another option in the future is buying a bare bones system from somewhere like Tigerdirect or Newegg? They'll put the mobo, processor, case, and power supply (sometimes) together, and you just fill in the gaps (usually meaning a hard drive and OS, video card, sound card, and RAM).

Anyway, given my funtastic experience of trying to do a Vista upgrade install on top of XP that kept failing after three hours because of Daemon tools existing... I know how frustrating this kind of crap can be.

There are some time constraints on how willing he is to do that in the future. It might take more time away from playing World of Warcraft (where he has some interesting conversations while playing... last night I came down and heard him explaining how to make good pancakes while playing WoW). He thought it would be less of a hassle to get a refurbished machine.

Ah, yes, I may have found one of the reasons for Vista problems: lack of well written drivers (and/or BIOS in our case). Vista's driver ills aren't just Microsoft's fault. (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9061400)

[JonnyFive]

The reinstall with the new BIOS seemed to fix the problem with the onboard network controller (also clearing the drive of any cruddy code in XP, something that really can't be done well with Vista). The modem card has never been used. It was removed to free up a slot for another card. It may stay in since there is is a free slot for the SATA drive.

That's good. Also, if this was an issue of power draw, your network card might have been pushing the PSU past its comfortable limit. I don't know what the normal draw off a network card is, but you did say that it was putting that back in that seemed to start the shutting down again, so it is a possibility.

There are some time constraints on how willing he is to do that in the future. It might take more time away from playing World of Warcraft (where he has some interesting conversations while playing... last night I came down and heard him explaining how to make good pancakes while playing WoW). He thought it would be less of a hassle to get a refurbished machine.

Refurb stuff would be great if the companies doing the refurbishing did decent quality control, but they never seem to. I think they just get lazy and get the stuff to "it works" status and shove it out the door.

Ah, yes, I may have found one of the reasons for Vista problems: lack of well written drivers (and/or BIOS in our case). Vista's driver ills aren't just Microsoft's fault. (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9061400)

Yeah, the Vista driver thing is getting better than it was, but there's still some issues out there, especially with weird hardware. I had to stop using the RivaTuner video card overclocking tool because it reports itself as a driver and Vista doesn't like it very much.

[Skeptical Greg]

......

Ah, yes, I may have found one of the reasons for Vista problems: lack of well written drivers (and/or BIOS in our case). Vista's driver ills aren't just Microsoft's fault. (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9061400)


( Hardware ) Driver ills would never be Microsoft's fault .. Unless they actually built and sold the hardware in question ..