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onemind
25th January 2008, 02:51 AM
Hi all,

I recently released a free book about buddhism and was hoping someone here could give me their take on it.

I know it is a huge ask to get someone to read a book :P

It is only 50 pages, more like a booklet. So if there are any skeptics here interested in buddhism i would be happy to hear your thoughts.

The book is here: http://www.lulu.com/content/1931167

And its website is here: http://www.thebuddhawaswrong.com

Thanks

Dr Adequate
25th January 2008, 03:48 AM
So what to say about the Lotus Sutra, reciting Amitbha Buddha to be born into pure land, and the various other religious practices found in Mahayana? I mean really people, must I say anything? If this stuff doesn’t scream out religious cult meme bull **** I don’t know what does. My only advice to Mahayana Buddhists would be, don’t smoke crack.

I hate to break it to you secular Buddhists but you guys are retarded.

I mean, if you really believe in a reincarnated being to begin with you are already retarded. I mean really, the 14th incarnation of a bodhisattva? Hooolllleeeeeey ****.

St Thomas Aquinas refuting the Manichees could scarcely have phrased it better.

onemind
25th January 2008, 04:28 AM
lol

You left out the bit where i commented on ad hominems, empty argument, logical fallacies ect ect..

Lets overlook the mahayana section for arguments sake and discuss rebirth, nirvana and emptiness :P

Complexity
25th January 2008, 04:42 AM
Before DrA's post, I had no interest in reading your work.

After DrA's post, you can double that.

Why would I want to 'discuss' anything with you?

onemind
25th January 2008, 04:51 AM
Why would I want to 'discuss' anything with you?

likewise..

Granted the mahayana section is a bit of a joke. I make no argument against the mahyana school of buddhism.

Loss Leader
25th January 2008, 06:42 AM
Never in my life did it ever occur to me that there were not one but two anti-Buddhists and that I would meet them both.

Dancing David
25th January 2008, 07:17 AM
lol

You left out the bit where i commented on ad hominems, empty argument, logical fallacies ect ect..

Lets overlook the mahayana section for arguments sake and discuss rebirth, nirvana and emptiness :P

Calling people retarded in not critical thinking, it might show your are not critical of your own thoughts.

There is much to be sceptical of in buddhism, you can be like Yrreg and ignore all the things that buddhists on this forum are sceptical of in buddhism.

Reincarnation, rebirth, kamma can be mystical garbage.

But nibbanna can also just be extinguishment of attachment to the self, emptiness just might be the idea that thoughts and emotions are empty human constructs and should not be mistaken for things in and of themselves. They may have validity or they may be just illusion.

Rebirth like kamma can just be the transmission of choices and consequences.

:P

Puppycow
25th January 2008, 07:18 AM
Never in my life did it ever occur to me that there were not one but two anti-Buddhists and that I would meet them both.

Don't forget the Buddha-statue-destroying Taliban!

onemind: Are you aware that there is a very unpopular anti-Buddhist poster here that goes by Yrreg? So you may expect a hostile reaction from some posters here due to that association. I read the first couple pages and your book seems to be reasonable so far. A long time ago I read Siddhartha by Herman Hesse, but now I have little use for any religion including Buddhism. I find the Enlightenment tradition of David Hume and scientific outlook of Carl Sagan to be my own inspiration.

sackett
25th January 2008, 07:34 AM
Here we have a poor fellow who can't spell "etc." saying that he's written a 50-page booklet. Well, maybe he has.

Ryokan
25th January 2008, 07:40 AM
Onemind has been here with his charming style of rhetorics before. (http://forums.randi.org/search.php?searchid=1302480) If it's retarded he's calling me these days, that's probably the nicest thing he's said to me.

Loss Leader
25th January 2008, 07:45 AM
Did Yrreg and Onemind ever meet because I've got a feeling it still wouldn't go very well.

Ryokan
25th January 2008, 07:48 AM
Did Yrreg and Onemind ever meet because I've got a feeling it still wouldn't go very well.

Yes. In this (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=83061) thread, recently bumped.

Also, see my sig.

onemind
25th January 2008, 08:48 AM
No one has problems calling muslims and christians retarded but every apologetic under the sun has a big cry about the validility of devas, hungry ghosts, rebirth, nirvana, karma, hell realms, ect ect. Who care about the spelling of ect?

It is like dealing with pedantic librarians on this forum. Every other forum on the net where this is being discussed has a reasonable level of debate but you guys just want to bitch and moan.

Comments removed.

Attack the argument, not the one making it.

onemind
25th January 2008, 08:49 AM
And yes, you can put that in your sig. Self deprication is a reliable way to cover up your bs.

Piscivore
25th January 2008, 08:56 AM
No one has problems calling muslims and christians retarded...

Yes, actually, it would be just as fallacious.

In your pamphlet do you fully explain how buddhists are "teh ghey"?

Dr Adequate
25th January 2008, 08:58 AM
lol

You left out the bit where i commented on ad hominems, empty argument, logical fallacies ect ect.. Your tract does indeed, at one point, contain the phrase: "Ad Hominems, logical fallacies, faulty non existent argument ect ect."

A lesser man would have put a verb in that sentence.

As it is, it's not quite clear whether these are accusations that you're levelling against Buddhists or merely a note to yourself on how you intend to complete the chapter.

onemind
25th January 2008, 09:00 AM
grammar nazi

onemind
25th January 2008, 09:02 AM
As it is, it's not clear whether these are accusations that you're levelling against Buddhists or merely a note to yourself on how you intend to complete the chapter.

No, it is an anticipation for the predicatable quoting from that chapter :)

I dont feel the need to debunk pureland, amitabha or bodhisattvas any more than i need to disprove unicorns and am happy to leave mahayanans to it because they are beyond reason hence closing the chapter advising them to keep reciting..

sinclairmcevoy
25th January 2008, 09:14 AM
I read through some of it, but it started seeming like a retarded rant. I can see why it's free. Good luck with that.

dannagain
25th January 2008, 09:22 AM
Yes, actually, it would be just as fallacious.

In your pamphlet do you fully explain how buddhists are "teh ghey"?

:D

dannagain
25th January 2008, 09:23 AM
grammar nazi

That should be "Grammar Nazi" .

You forgot to capitalise.

onemind
25th January 2008, 09:25 AM
Perhaps you can read the pali canon with sutra after sutra on how life is suffering, rebirth is reality and nirvana is the way out. Much less of a retarded rant than my little booklet.

dannagain
25th January 2008, 09:25 AM
No, it is an anticipation for the predicatable quoting from that chapter :)

I dont feel the need to debunk pureland, amitabha or bodhisattvas any more than i need to disprove unicorns and am happy to leave mahayanans to it because they are beyond reason hence closing the chapter advising them to keep reciting..

You seem to have conflated a small sect of Mahayana Buddhism (Pure Land School) with the entire of branch of Buddhism known as Mahayana.

onemind
25th January 2008, 09:33 AM
Not at all. We can extend to zen or any other mainstream mahayana school and examine their tenets.

If you actually read the first chapter that it is not my aim to explore every single sect of buddhism and have created a classification system with 3 broad all encompassing groups to avoid the scotsman fallacy.

And pureland is hardly a small sect of mahayana buddhism, it is one of the largest schools within mahayana.

dannagain
25th January 2008, 09:43 AM
Not at all. We can extend to zen or any other mainstream mahayana school and examine their tenets.

If you actually read the first chapter that it is not my aim to explore every single sect of buddhism and have created a classification system with 3 broad all encompassing groups to avoid the scotsman fallacy.

And pureland is hardly a small sect of mahayana buddhism, it is one of the largest schools within mahayana.

Here's Zen's tenet's: Sit Down And Shut Up..... that's it.

Apologies for calling Pure Land 'small', it's big.

onemind
25th January 2008, 09:57 AM
Sit Down And Shut Up..... that's it.

No, that is a cheesey cliche that white people like to use to excuse their ignorance of zen tenets.

Comment removed.

Be civil and polite.

Tsukasa Buddha
25th January 2008, 10:11 AM
After years of scientific study
on meditation, it has shown to be extremely unreliable and can
even worsen the effects of depression, anxiety and other mental
disorders in some people with extreme cases ending in suicide.

Evidence? That is not what I have been told. Heck, the Wellness Center here offers mindfulness meditation.

Too often insane acts by so called masters who are detached
from day to day life are seen to be all knowing and wise. An
attempt to make the attached students let go of their worldly
concerns. Such detachment, seen as wise in Buddhism, is little
more than fundamentalist nihilism.

...

Detachment, non self and other anti life insights born of
meditation are little more than madness and does not always
lead to opening ones heart and generating great empathy and
compassion for all sentient beings.

This is really representative of a lot of what you have to say, in that it is ignorant ranting.

What Zen teacher tells you to be attached from everyday life? Living your life in the moment (See Dogen's Time Being) is a key aspect of Zen.

Detachment is from sensual pleasure, and non self makes you appreciate the fact that you are no more important than, or seperate from, anyone else, which makes you act more compassionately.

So what to say about the Lotus Sutra, reciting Amitbha Buddha
to be born into pure land, and the various other religious
practices found in Mahayana? I mean really people, must I say
anything? If this stuff doesn’t scream out religious cult meme
bull **** I don’t know what does. My only advice to Mahayana
Buddhists would be, don’t smoke crack.

Yes, we all know that religious texts must be literal and make use of no metaphors.

Getting back to the goal of Buddhism outlined in the Nirvana
chapter, Buddhism came about as a solution to the problem of
continuous rebirth. This begs the question, what the hell are
secular Buddhists on about? They outright deny the reality of
rebirth as mere superstition and yet still call themselves
Buddhists and follow the eightfold path. I hate to break it to you
secular Buddhists but you guys are retarded. It’s like denying
the existence of god as mere mythology but calling yourself a
roman catholic for the free sip of wine and piece of bread each
week in church. It’s a huge investment for trivial returns.
But wait, by practicing right speech, right livelihood and
refraining from rape, murder and theft they get the huge returns
of a peaceful way of life and staying out of jail. Well guess what,
99% of the people on this planet are smart enough to see the
benefits of abiding by common sense human conduct, there is
nothing Buddhist about it. Secular Buddhism is like Atheist
Christianity. A compete oxymoron adopted by middle class
yuppies who like the label as a fashion accessory to go with
their new Ipod.

And you are using only one view of rebirth and nirvana. Those crackpot masochistic Zen buddhists can have an entirely secular view.

I discussed my doubts many times with my various Buddhist
teachers and friends throughout the last few years of labeling
myself a Buddhist and was met with mixed reactions. Some
were keen to point out the Kalama Sutta and told me my
questioning methods were wise and what the Buddha
recommended. However, I met strong resistance from the
dogmatic Buddhists, especially of the East. Many of those types
reminded me that doubt in the Buddha’s teachings was one of
the 5 hindrances to meditation. So here we have the Buddha telling us to have doubts in his teaching until verified for
ourselves but having doubt would impede finding out for
ourselves. Just one of many contradictions of simple minded
Buddhist philosophy.

Actually, the bad kind of doubt is "corrosive doubt", which is basically just unhelpful doubt that won't get you anywhere in the Buddhist path, like doubting that enlightenment is possible.

I really didn't see the point of your book. If you asked me, I would say that what makes a person a Buddhist is belief in the four seals, and you should have talked about emptiness, non-self, etc. as opposed to just ranting about people or groups of people.

Your paper wasn't so much that the Buddha was wrong, but that Buddhists are wrong.

lupus_in_fabula
25th January 2008, 10:16 AM
It would be better if there were more background to what you’re actually criticising. Now it just seems like ranting about something obvious, although that obvious thing is left unexamined. Basically it leaves a Buddhist with perhaps the following sense: “I’m sorry you feel that way”; and a non-Buddhist like me with… “Now I know how you feel”.

Here’s one example from the meditation chapter: "Detachment, non self and other anti life insights born of meditation are little more than madness and does not always lead to opening ones heart and generating great empathy and compassion for all sentient beings."

But you don’t really go into details why you feel that way; the reader is left clueless, guessing why you make those conclusions. Perhaps it requires much more familiarity with Buddhism than I have, if one is to infer what you’re alluding to.

onemind
25th January 2008, 10:52 AM
Now we are talking :)

All fair comments and i am inclined to agree with you. I admit i am no writer and realise that it will take a lot more than 50 pages to get into the gory details of how i came to various conclusions. The second edition is in the works containg references to all scientific studies, buddhist texts and thorough explanations for various conclusions which i only covered superficialy in this short text.

I was hoping for a genuine critique like the 2 above so I see how it appears from other peoples side and will refine it as i go. Granted calling people retards is not the most constructive way to build a useful dialetic :P

I was unsure as to who my target audience should be. Current buddhists who already know what things like the kalama sutta is or the difference between insight and concentration meditation ect or for non buddhists requiring an explaination of concepts before tackling them. I decided to go for current buddhists because i figured non buddhists wouldnt be interested in reading about buddhism anymore than i am interested in reading about islam. Although, there could be a market for it but it could be seen a biased to teach people buddhism then kill it. I would probably be accused of making a strawman and be insulted for my lack of true understanding of dhmarma ect ect but this is unavoidable dealing with buddhists who think of themselves as jedi knights who have it all figured out :P

And yes, i just read it again from start to finish and it does sound like a rant. I change topics randomly from paragraph to paragraph without smooth transition and thorough explaination. Perhaps consider the first edition as more of a brain dump that will be ironed out for hard copy.

Thanks for comments and I will tackle them in more detail in the morning. Must sleep :P

Cheers

Dancing David
25th January 2008, 11:44 AM
No one has problems calling muslims and christians retarded

I do, but please continue.

but every apologetic under the sun has a big cry about the validility of devas, hungry ghosts,

Stuff to be sceptical of for sure.

rebirth, nirvana, karma,

depends on the flavor of the buddhist

hell realms,

I would only say hell exists as a condition on earth.

ect ect. Who care about the spelling of ect?

I don't know, were you a spelling wonk in the past?


It is like dealing with pedantic librarians on this forum. Every other forum on the net where this is being discussed has a reasonable level of debate but you guys just want to bitch and moan. Ryokan, you are a retard. It is not your fault. But jesus.

Funny how you don't want to discuss or debate, you just want people to agree with you and then call them retards when they don't.

Dancing David
25th January 2008, 11:47 AM
grammar nazi


It might also be called a request for clarity in communication. But then i get hacked on frequently for sentence fragments and the like.

Dancing David
25th January 2008, 11:57 AM
No, it is an anticipation for the predicatable quoting from that chapter :)

I dont feel the need to debunk pureland, amitabha or bodhisattvas any more than i need to disprove unicorns and am happy to leave mahayanans to it because they are beyond reason hence closing the chapter advising them to keep reciting..


There are some pearls in the the muck of the Mahayana, supposedly the buddha berated his disciples for preforming miracles.

But faith based enlightenment, oook.

Dancing David
25th January 2008, 12:01 PM
Perhaps you can read the pali canon with sutra after sutra on how life is suffering, rebirth is reality and nirvana is the way out. Much less of a retarded rant than my little booklet.

I would disagree but I haven't read more than a little bit. There sure is a lot of suffering for some people.
I take rebirth to mean the recycling of poor choices. But there sure are some who disagree, Thich Naht Hahn, who i really like to read is very vague about rebirth.

Silentknight
25th January 2008, 05:34 PM
All fair comments and i am inclined to agree with you. I admit i am no writer and realise that it will take a lot more than 50 pages to get into the gory details of how i came to various conclusions. The second edition is in the works containg references to all scientific studies, buddhist texts and thorough explanations for various conclusions which i only covered superficialy in this short text.
That bold part is the first thing you've said that I can agree with wholeheartedly. A real writer would not have included four spelling errors in just that one paragraph, or made so many blatant capitalization and grammatical errors. I especially feel sorry for your publisher, if his or her eyeballs haven't ruptured yet. The rest of what I wanted to say was already covered quite nicely by Dr A.

Also no, anyone who came on here and simply said, "All Christians and Muslims are retards!" would not gain instant respect and adulation for their incredibly insightful and well reasoned argument.

onemind
25th January 2008, 06:35 PM
Microsoft words spell checker takes care of most of it and most publishers have editors to get the rest. Online spelling and grammar is a lot different than getting published.

Itz teh internetz, who givez a Please don't do that.

As for dancing davids comment, as much as i would like to get into the 10 page debate where you go on about sectarian differences and scotsman fallacies, my book specifically states that it does not look at any particular sect in detail. THere are 3 groups that have been dealt with, the mahayana chapter deals with the religious or superstitious group.

Dr Adequate
25th January 2008, 09:25 PM
THere are 3 groups that have been dealt with, the mahayana chapter deals with the religious or superstitious group. And so unanswerably!

So what to say about the Lotus Sutra, reciting Amitbha Buddha to be born into pure land, and the various other religious practices found in Mahayana? I mean really people, must I say anything? If this stuff doesn’t scream out religious cult meme bull **** I don’t know what does. My only advice to Mahayana Buddhists would be, don’t smoke crack. I particularly love the way you debunk those "various other religious practices" without even saying what they are.

onemind
25th January 2008, 10:27 PM
I give good reason for that.

THey are beyond reason and no amount of debate will change their mind. They are on par with christians muslims and jews which i state at the start of the book i wont waste a minute of my time arguing their madness.

It wouldnt be hard to tackle the philosophical basis of mahayana. But i will waste no time on the religous group.

XBoxWarrior
26th January 2008, 07:04 PM
I'm having a Cheeseburger..........with grilled onions.

HMMMMMMNNNNNN.

Need a recipe?

http://www.in-n-out.com/nutritional_info.asp

Ryokan
26th January 2008, 07:11 PM
I think you need to reread the membership agreement, onemind.

Onemind was suspended twice for breaking it and being rude, and the last time he was put on probabtion for 6 months. That was a little over 6 months ago.

onemind
26th January 2008, 07:45 PM
lol

Olowkow
26th January 2008, 08:05 PM
All in all, an annoying read. I think the author needs some formal courses in writing, and some feel for what vocabulary style is appropriate for such a treatise. The style feels very sophomoric, with words like "crap", and overuse of certain terms like "irrelevant". Weak or non-existing arguments...too many grammatical errors to take it seriously. No I'm not a Buddhist.

Gord_in_Toronto
26th January 2008, 08:09 PM
Here we have a poor fellow who can't spell "etc." saying that he's written a 50-page booklet. Well, maybe he has.

I resent that slam against General Semantics! :eek:

onemind
26th January 2008, 08:16 PM
I never did a bachelor of arts.

BSc

dannagain
28th January 2008, 06:14 AM
No, that is a cheesey cliche that white people like to use to excuse their ignorance of zen tenets.

Comment removed.

Be civil and polite.

Actually it's the central message of the school of buddhism I am a member of: Dogen Sangha. There is a book called sit down and shut up by the head of dogen sangha - Brad Warner.

sackett
28th January 2008, 08:34 AM
Once a group of monks sat in the meditation hall doing zazen. The roshi of their monastery paced through the hall with the stick he used to enforce discipline.

One after the other, the monks were sleeping. Some slumped this way, some that, some sat propped against each other, snoring. Only the last monk in the row was not sleeping. Instead, he was visibly approching Extreme Ultimate Enlightenment. A blaze of celestial light surrounded him; apparitions of deities encircled him; the music of the Universe could be heard; a Bump of Enlightenment appeared on the crown of his head.

The monk began to levitate, rising toward Nirvana on a miraculous lotus blossom. When he had risen to a convenient height, the roshi struck him a two-handed blow with his stick.

In an instant, the heavenly visions vanished. The light evaporated. The deities disappeared, as did the Bump and the miraculous lotus blossom. The monk crashed to the floor of the zendo, fully awakened from his spiritual state.

“But, but – honored roshi!” cried the monk. “I almost achieved Extreme Ultimate Enlightenment! Why did you strike me? Why did you waken me?”

“Take a nap like the others,” replied the roshi. “It will clear you mind.”

Dancing David
28th January 2008, 08:42 AM
I give good reason for that.

THey are beyond reason and no amount of debate will change their mind. They are on par with christians muslims and jews which i state at the start of the book i wont waste a minute of my time arguing their madness.

It wouldnt be hard to tackle the philosophical basis of mahayana. But i will waste no time on the religous group.


Truely it is very easy, it comes down to the definition of "the buddha's teachings', since most of the mahayana is based upon post Gautama teachings it has little to do wth the teaching of the alleged historical buddha.

Elohim
28th January 2008, 02:41 PM
onemind,

Lets overlook the mahayana section for arguments sake and discuss rebirth, nirvana and emptiness :P

After years of scientific study on meditation, it has shown to be extremely unreliable and can even worsen the effects of depression, anxiety and other mental disorders in some people with extreme cases ending in suicide.

To begin with, it is certainly true that there are many things in Buddhism which are difficult, if not impossible, to prove. The literal interpretation of rebirth is one of them. I know of no way in which to scientifically prove or verify that this phenomena is at all possible—all of the most convicing evidence I have seen in support of this possibility has been in the form of case studies and first-hand accounts. Nevertheless, rebirth is an important part of Buddhism. In Buddhist cosmology, there are said to be at least thirty-one (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sagga/loka.html) distinct realms of existence, and existence within the continual round of birth and death is suffering and bondage.

As for the nature of these realms, they are generally treated as either external realms of existence where rebirth is possible due to the ripening of wholesome or unwholesome kamma dibba-cakkhu) can see these beings vanishing and reappearing] or experiences with no external location, i.e., they are mentally fabricated realities based upon wholesome or unwholesome kamma. My personal belief is that rebirth into any of these realms is a possiblity; although, I am also open to the possibility that these are merely methaphorical descriptions of various pleasant and unpleasant mental states.

Pragmatically, I view samara as the potential for the arising of human [mental] suffering, while I view nibbana as the cessation of that potential. Nevertheless, according to Nyanatiloka's Manual of Buddhist Terms and Doctrines (http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/s_t/samsaara.htm), samara, literally "perpetual wandering," is "the unbroken chain of the five-fold khandha (http://www.palikanon.com/english/wtb/g_m/khandha.htm)-combinations, which, constantly changing from moment to moment follow continuously one upon the other through inconceivable periods of time;" although, the only empirical means of proof that I am aware of is the experience of past life memories that can arise from developing deep states of meditative absorption (MN 39 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.039.than.html#t-5)).

Honestly, I do not believe that rebirth can ever be scientifically disproven until science can at least find a way to rule out the possibility that consciousness can exist outside the body; because as Alan Wallace points out in an interview with Steve Paulson in Templeton-Cambridge Journalism Fellowships in Science & Religion (http://www.templeton-cambridge.org/fellows/paulson/publications/2006.11.27/buddha_on_the_brain/), "This very notion that the mind must simply be an emergent property of the brain — consisting only of physical phenomena and nothing more — is not a testable hypothesis... Can you test the statement that there is nothing else going on apart from physical phenomena and their emergent properties? The answer is no."

Perhaps consciousness is simply a by-product of electrochemical processes in the brain, but perhaps there is another dimension to consciousness that science has yet to discover. Either way, another important point that is touched upon by Alan Wallace in the same interview is that, “If your sole access to the mind is by way of physical phenomena, then you have no way of testing whether all dimensions of the mind are necessarily contingent upon the brain.” Until science figures out a way to answer questions such as these, I am able to admit that I take certain concepts such as rebirth on faith—faith in the possibility that they are true.

Still, whatever your view of rebirth, nibbana is first and foremost the cessation of [mental] stress and suffering. When asked, "What now is nibbana?" by Jambukhadaka, Sariputta replied, "The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this, friend, is called nibbana" (SN 38.1). It is also stated by the Buddha that nibbana is "the highest bliss" (Dhp. 204 (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/dhp/dhp.15.budd.html)). Furthermore, this freedom from suffering is not contingent upon death. The Buddha himself realized nibbana at the age of thirty-six, at which time he preceded to dedicate the remaining [forty-four] years of his life to teaching the path to the end of suffering.

As for the teachings on emptiness (sunnata), my personal opinion is that they are often taken out of context, and coincidentally, far removed from their intended purpose. The view of emptiness that things have no inherent existence, while philosophically complex and seemingly implicit in the teachings on dependent co-arising, actually developed over time. As Thanissaro Bhikkhu explains, "emptiness is a mode of perception, a way of looking at experience" (Emptiness (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/emptiness.html)). Moreover, "... the idea of emptiness as lack of inherent existence has very little to do with what the Buddha himself said about emptiness" (The Integrity of Emptiness (http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/thanissaro/integrityofemptiness.html)).

Finally, when it comes to meditation, it is certainly true that mentally unstable people can become even more mentally unstable due to certain meditation practices. That fact alone does not negate to potential benefits of meditation, just as the fact that certain drugs prescribed to mentally unstable individuals can actually increase the likelihood of suicide does not negate the potential benefits of such drugs. I am sure that there are studies which warn against such dangers, but I am equally as sure that there are others which state the benefits, e.g., the study (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3047291.stm) done by Dr. Paul Ekman at the University of California San Francisco Medical Centre.

Jason

Silentknight
28th January 2008, 07:15 PM
Rebirth was once explained to me by a Buddhist, not as a belief in literal reincarnation, but as a concept of renewal. Your body is constantly replenishing (http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2001-02/981770369.An.r.html) itself, replacing the old cells that die with new ones (at various rates depending on the type). The atoms that make you up are likewise being replaced by metabolic turnover. You are constantly learning new things every day of your life, such as right now, hopefully. When you're done reading over this forum for the day, taking in what people have to offer, you will have changed slightly and become a new person in addition to what you were before.

Rebirth doesn't mean that when you die you come back to life. It applies to that which is constantly occurring even right now. As the saying goes, change is the only universal constant.

Piscivore
28th January 2008, 07:40 PM
Actually it's the central message of the school of buddhism I am a member of: Dogen Sangha. There is a book called sit down and shut up by the head of dogen sangha - Brad Warner.

Hey! That's the school I'm using to raise my kids. Only I'm using "my foot-your ass" style. :D

Dancing David
29th January 2008, 11:32 AM
Hiya Onemind!

I fing your definition of the damma to be interesting because you haven't stated the damma, you have talked about rebirth, which is fine thing to be sceptical of. Yet the damma remains as it is, the four truths and the eightfold path.

And in reading the first few chapter this seems to be a repeated pattern, it might seems a sort of straw argument.

Some suggestion:
1. Keep on critiquing.
2. Read more on what you critique, if you want to critique the dharma or nirvana try to address them as they are defined.
3. Citations are helpful.
4. Organization will help the flow of your essay. Try to use an outline, flowchart or note cards, address each point seperately and avoid a shotgun approach.
5. If you want to critique reincarnation, that is great, but don't call it the dharma or nirvana.
6. You might want to actualy ask people on the JREF what they are sceptical of in buddhism, most people are very sceptical and love to talk about thier ideas. Avoid name calling and listen to the comment as they are written. i for example am sceptical of 95% of what passes as buddhism.