Are All Americans This Stupid?

[Mr Manifesto]

Link (http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=98777254&p=98778yy7) (other news sources will probably publish similar info later on, this is what's available 6.45pm AEST)


US President George Bush, hitting back at allies, will tell the United Nations the war against Iraq was “the right decision” and that it’s time to put differences aside and join together in a major reconstruction effort.
<snip>
Bush today said he is not sure the United States will have to yield a significantly larger role to win support for a new UN resolution on Iraq. He also continued to insist on an orderly transfer of authority to the Iraqis rather than the quick action demanded by France.


So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain.

[UnrepentantSinner]

When you're a simple man, with a simple vision, in whom God has entrusted the special duty of routing the Saracens - it's hard to comprehend what's going on when everything goes awry.

[Stig]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
When you're a simple man, with a simple vision, in whom God has entrusted the special duty of routing the Saracens - it's hard to comprehend what's going on when everything goes awry.

Very well put indeed.

Stig

[Cain]

As an American I believe in Bush to do the right thing. He's the president. We electe-- well, he's still the president.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to challenge the wisdom of Bush's policies. I heard he went Yale. And then on to Harvard or something before running several very succesful businesses (all on his own). That means he's smart. Determined.

Why did I bother to write that when I can get back to reading the latest issue of Rollingstone, where the cover features Britney Spears' bare breasts pressed up against a wall. Le me repeat: her breasts are pressed up against... oh, you dirty foreigners will never understand. YOU'D BE SPEAKING GERMAN IF IT WEREN'T FOR US.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Cain
As an American I believe in Bush to do the right thing. He's the president. We electe-- well, he's still the president.



... Just out of interest: You believe that Bush does the right thing, just because he's the president? No matter what he does? Or because you happen to agree with him in this case?

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by richardm



... Just out of interest: You believe that Bush does the right thing, just because he's the president? No matter what he does? Or because you happen to agree with him in this case?

I thin khe was bean sacrarstic.

[Cain]

... Just out of interest: You believe that Bush does the right thing, just because he's the president?

That's right -- he's the president. Presidents are elected by the American people -- the smartest, greatest, godliest souls on earth. All presidents are, therefore, practically infalliable -- except for Clinton, who was the opposite of infalliable.

No matter what he does?

Yes.

Or because you happen to agree with him in this case?

Perhaps. I can't really think clearly at the moment: Britney Spears is staring at me through the cover of that Rollingstone issue right now!

http://content.rollingstone.com/content/6720/Images/00332867.jpg

And I look at all perspectives: I watch Fox AND CNN. Plus, as you know by now, I even read pinko publications like Rollingstone. It's filled with anti-Bush propaganda.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Cain


That's right -- he's the president. Presidents are elected by the American people -- the smartest, greatest, godliest souls on earth. All presidents are, therefore, practically infalliable -- except for Clinton, who was the opposite of infalliable.



Ah, phew, for a moment there I thought you were being serious :D


Thanks for the Rolling Stone cover - saves me googling for it!

[Mike B.]

So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain. [/B]

All right,
Any far left wingers that are not xenophobe bigots wish to make a post?

[kittynh]

You got Mr.Blair! and his wife....

We all have our black sheep.

Hey, Pool Boy said that Mr.BLair just got an important seat to a 29 year old who probably would never make the cover of Rolling Stone, but seems pretty smart.

Also, how dumb is this... he said it was all over the papers that binge drinking in the UK is out of control, and some stupid politician is saying the UK should follow the US and raise the drinking age to 21 as we don't have as much binge drinking....

hahahahahahahahahahahahahhaaha

bet he isn't reelected!

oh my! If I am ever forced to go lesbian...I'd consider Ms.Spears

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by UnrepentantSinner
When you're a simple man, with a simple vision, in whom God has entrusted the special duty of routing the Saracens - it's hard to comprehend what's going on when everything goes awry.

Amen UnrepentantSinner!

Does anyone else remember when George W. said before the shooting started and he was trying to justify and notify everyone of the pre-emptive attack about to come with "If the UN does not act, we will!"

[Mr Manifesto]

You got Mr.Blair! and his wife....

We all have our black sheep.

Uh, are you talking to me?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Mike B.


All right,
Any far left wingers that are not xenophobe bigots wish to make a post?

Xenophobe (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=91846&dict=CALD)

Bigot (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=7392&dict=CALD)

Cambridge Dictionary- use it! (http://dictionary.cambridge.org/)

[BPSCG]

Yes, we are that STUPID.

Our STUPID European ancestors were hounded by their betters because they weren't good enough to be Englishmen or Frenchmen or whatever. They realized that life for them would consist of being taxed to death, religiously persecuted to death, pogromed to death, gas-chambered to death. Some of them decided that they weren't going to stay where they weren't wanted, and they came over here. They came over here knowing they didn't speak the language, have a job, have any friends here, understand the culture. But they didn't care. They didn't care that they might be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. They only knew that their betters (what a wonderful, appropriately British sound "betters" has...) were making life miserable for them, and that that was all the future held for them and their children and their children's children.

So those frightened, brave, industrious, STUPID people left. They left behind the smug and the self-satisfied, as well as the other Europeans who were also miserable but too frightened or lazy to leave. And these frightened, brave, industrious, STUPID people built a country that has prospered beyond anyone's wildest imaginings, without the benefit of kings or dictators, for the last two hundred years. Those STUPID people built a country, might I remind you, that destroyed the naziism and the communism that sought to turn your entire continent into a death camp.

And you, the descendants of those rich, smug, self-satisfied, powerful people who did their very best to murder my ancestors, just can't stand that, can you?

[Tricky]

President Bush, or more corectly, his handlers, are simply playing politics. Bush has to appear to be a man of reason, however difficult that will be. I don't think that anyone doubts that there is more to this than a simple appeal to the world. It's the old carrot-and-stick routine. The military and economic juggernaut that is the United States is capable of wielding enormous pressure on countries, but it is important that the US at least make the pretense of trying to negotiate with them.

It's also a face-saving effort by this administration which simultaneously tries to appease both the international community and their own people. They tell the world "we need help", while telling Americans "we were still right". This is a political game played by all leaders, including Saddam who tried to tell the world "we're complying" while telling his people "we're fighting back".

So don't be too hard on the Bushies. Having to go to the UN at all is a slice of crow pie that is sticking in their throats. That thought alone is amusing.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Yes, we are that STUPID.

Our STUPID European ancestors were hounded by their betters because they weren't good enough to be Englishmen or Frenchmen or whatever. They realized that life for them would consist of being taxed to death, religiously persecuted to death, pogromed to death, gas-chambered to death. Some of them decided that they weren't going to stay where they weren't wanted, and they came over here. They came over here knowing they didn't speak the language, have a job, have any friends here, understand the culture. But they didn't care. They didn't care that they might be jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. They only knew that their betters (what a wonderful, appropriately British sound "betters" has...) were making life miserable for them, and that that was all the future held for them and their children and their children's children.

So those frightened, brave, industrious, STUPID people left. They left behind the smug and the self-satisfied, as well as the other Europeans who were also miserable but too frightened or lazy to leave. And these frightened, brave, industrious, STUPID people built a country that has prospered beyond anyone's wildest imaginings, without the benefit of kings or dictators, for the last two hundred years. Those STUPID people built a country, might I remind you, that destroyed the naziism and the communism that sought to turn your entire continent into a death camp.

And you, the descendants of those rich, smug, self-satisfied, powerful people who did their very best to murder my ancestors, just can't stand that, can you?

Nice rant. Reminds me of the 'Solarmanite speech' in Plan 9 from Outer Space.

Now, did you actually have something to say, or did you just want to see if your keyboard could write 'stupid' in caps?


































PS- don't forget that those Communists you Yanks lose so much sleep over helped you defeat Hitler. Ya couldn't have done it without 'em! ;)

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Tricky

So don't be too hard on the Bushies. Having to go to the UN at all is a slice of crow pie that is sticking in their throats. That thought alone is amusing.

I agree that it is amusing in itself, but why is the Administration so pride-swollen that it can't compromise on rebuilding Iraq? Iraq isn't some king-size SimCity scenario that will go away as soon as Bush turns his computer off. His obstinance is affecting real human beings. I hope all Australians give him a warm welcome when he shows up to Woolloongong in October.

Hey, he'll get over it, whatever happens- unlike the thousands who died because of him.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by kittynh
Also, how dumb is this... he said it was all over the papers that binge drinking in the UK is out of control, and some stupid politician is saying the UK should follow the US and raise the drinking age to 21 as we don't have as much binge drinking....


That was last week's moral panic; this week it's the prospect of rioting pensioners and the council tax. Sometimes it seems like the British political attention span only lasts as long as the latest media-led scare; it's amazing we can make it through the months when Parliament is closed and still remember we're a democracy (allegedly).

Anyway, "Washington's no. 1 diplomat" kind of had it put to him in the recent council election. Is it true that more Americans trust Blair than trust Bush? What kind of topsy-turvy world do we live in?!! :)

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


I agree that it is amusing in itself, but why is the Administration so pride-swollen that it can't compromise on rebuilding Iraq? Iraq isn't some king-size SimCity scenario that will go away as soon as Bush turns his computer off. His obstinance is affecting real human beings. I hope all Australians give him a warm welcome when he shows up to Woolloongong in October.

Hey, he'll get over it, whatever happens- unlike the thousands who died because of him.

Can you say, "Afghanistan" (http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1044751,00.html)?

[Mr Manifesto]

Well, I'm mad as hell and I'm not taking it anymore!

I'm going to the Bush protest, I'm going to be carrying a...

::looks further up the thread to Cain's post::

Uh... Wow... She's only wearing underwear, huh?

Anyway, my Uncle was in the army and he's got a...

Gee... she really does seem to be looking right at you. I like the hairstyle, too, very bedroomish (giggles)...

So... Uh... What was I talking about?

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Now, did you actually have something to say, or did you just want to see if your keyboard could write 'stupid' in caps?

great comeback, you showed him.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by BillyTK
Is it true that more Americans trust Blair than trust Bush? What kind of topsy-turvy world do we live in?!! :)
We don't so much trust Blair more as we respect him more, mostly for his ability to form coherent sentences while he's lying.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh


great comeback, you showed him.

great comeback, you showed me.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
PS- don't forget that those Communists you Yanks lose so much sleep over helped you defeat Hitler. Ya couldn't have done it without 'em! ;) And we wouldn't have had to do it if a few major European powers hadn't been delusional about the evil camped on their doorstep and decided they could "deal with Mister Hitler." Le plus ca change, le plus c'est le meme chose.

[Tricky]

Are All Americans This Stupid?

Let me answer your question with another question, Mr. M.

Do all Brits think Benny Hill was funny?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by BPSCG
And we wouldn't have had to do it if a few major European powers hadn't been delusional about the evil camped on their doorstep and decided they could "deal with Mister Hitler." Le plus ca change, le plus c'est le meme chose.

Yeah, well, it sounds like you were there, so I all I can say is that it was your fault for not being convincing enough in your arguments to launch a pre-emptive attack.

edit to add: Among your other failings is the inabilty to speak french or quote Alphonse Karr correctly. It's, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."

[Tmy]

"why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain."

What happend to all that bullshiznt about caring for Iraqis.

I thought the UN was interested in helping the Iraqi people.
Guess not. Theyd rather bicker and play "I told you so". Same old UN.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Tmy
"why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain."

What happend to all that bullshiznt about caring for Iraqis.

I thought the UN was interested in helping the Iraqi people.
Guess not. Theyd rather bicker and play "I told you so". Same old UN.

How are they going to care for the Iraqis by letting the Yanks run the show? We've already seen their performance in Afghanistan.

Look, when it comes to bombing the crap out of people, make no mistake, America is no 1. But when it comes to things like tact, diplomacy, rebuilding, negotiating, etc, that should all be left to the UN. Why does America want to hold the reins on something she isn't capable of handling?

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Yeah, well, it sounds like you were there, so I all I can say is that it was your fault for not being convincing enough in your arguments to launch a pre-emptive attack.
Well, now that you've explained it to me (I'm STUPID, after all, all of us Yanks are STUPID), I finally see the light. Hitler and Saddam were our fault. How could I have been so blind?

edit to add: Among your other failings is the inabilty to speak french or quote Alphonse Karr correctly. It's, "Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose."
Funny how nitpicking my faulty French* and resorting to ad hominem attacks doesn't change the facts, isn't it?

* ...and as long as we're picking nits, I note that "French" is properly capitalized. But I would never attribute your failure to do so to any lack of intelligence.

[c0rbin]

Attention pedantic dickweeds:

First of all, correcting someone's French is like correcting someone's method of cornholing.

Expressing superior skill in the area will not win you friends in the tree house.

Secondly, while I might point out that I am not an ardent Bush-Supporter, nor am I inclined to jingoism, however, your calling Americans STUPID is about as STUPID as calling all Australians convicts.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Tricky

We don't so much trust Blair more as we respect him more, mostly for his ability to form coherent sentences while he's lying.

That's so unfair! It's Alistair Campbel who should get the respect. ;)

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


How are they going to care for the Iraqis by letting the Yanks run the show? We've already seen their performance in Afghanistan.

Look, when it comes to bombing the crap out of people, make no mistake, America is no 1. But when it comes to things like tact, diplomacy, rebuilding, negotiating, etc, that should all be left to the UN. Why does America want to hold the reins on something she isn't capable of handling?

What has the UN rebuilt?


Lets cut the bullshiz, we know what this is about. Its about MONEY!!!! The UN is just as bad as the US. everyone wants their hand in the pot. Sure the UN tries to play all high n mighty but if they really wanted to help Iraq rebuild theyd jump in even wh US in charge. The UN is so insincere.

[Jon_in_london]

Basically the attitude of most other nations is "OK, we will bail you out of the mess you got yourself into if let the UN take over command of Iraq and give Iraq back to the Iraqis ASAP"

The US's attitude is "We will still be in charge but you guys clean up the shiznt we have created, while we continue to make sure no-one else gets any of the lucrative contracts floating about for the re-building you goddamn cheese-eating surrender monkey!!"

Uh... sure thats going to work..

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by BillyTK


That's so unfair! It's Alistair Campbel who should get the respect. ;)

Why did he want to feed Gilligan anyway? looks like he has enough food as it is....

[clk]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


She's only wearing underwear, huh?



No, I think it's a headband.... :eek:

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Secondly, while I might point out that I am not an ardent Bush-Supporter, nor am I inclined to jingoism, however, your calling Americans STUPID is about as STUPID as calling all Australians convicts.

Just to remind people, Mr Manifesto's thread title is a question, not a statement, albeit that the pejorative is contingent on agreement with Bush's belief that he can get UN help without compromising US's role in the running of things.

[Shinytop]

Mr Manifeso's actual question in the body of his post was "So how stupid are you, Yankees?" Obviously pretty rude and meant to inflame so he can call us too sensitive.

However, I would like to point out the quote says Bushy is unsure whether or not he will have to make concessions, not that he thinks he will not. Or am I the only one here who can read?

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Shinytop
Mr Manifeso's actual question in the body of his post was "So how stupid are you, Yankees?" Obviously pretty rude and meant to inflame so he can call us too sensitive.

However, I would like to point out the quote says Bushy is unsure whether or not he will have to make concessions, not that he thinks he will not. Or am I the only one here who can read?
Okay so I'm reading between the lines about Bush's uncertainty—I mean, does he seriously consider unconditional UN support is a viable option?—so I can read and infer:p

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain.

All I can say is, don't be surprised if they do.

Whether they should that's another story, but lots of money and a few quiet threats can work wonders. Do you really suppose that the president's speech is the beginning and end of what's going on at the UN right now?

You've heard the expression "crazy like a fox"?

W is "stupid like a fox".

[Shinytop]

Originally posted by BillyTK

Okay so I'm reading between the lines about Bush's uncertainty—I mean, does he seriously consider unconditional UN support is a viable option?—so I can read and infer:p

LOL. My point is that the attack on all Americans was based on expecting no concessions. But what nuances everybody appears to be totally oblivious to is that you always enter negotiations asking for more than you expect to get.

[bignickel]

Well, a second poll reveals that over 60% of Americans believe that Saddam was personally involved in WTC tragedy.

So, in answer to your question, I'd guess that at least 60% of America is that stupid.

And that a 60% majority will determine who the next POTUS will be.

4 more freaking years.

There's no end to it.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Shinytop
...negotiations...

:confused: Not familiar with that word in this context...
:p ;)

[Chaos]

Originally posted by Abdul Alhazred


Whether they should that's another story, but lots of money and a few quiet threats can work wonders. Do you really suppose that the president's speech is the beginning and end of what's going on at the UN right now?



Lots of money and a few quiet (and some not so quiet) threats was what he used before the war. Did it get him what he wanted? No.

The situation at the U.N. is very much the same as before the war. Only now, lots of smaller countries know that you CAN say "No" to America and get away with it - so they won´t be as afraid to do so this time.

Hard times ahead for Dubya, I suppose.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by c0rbin
Attention pedantic dickweeds:

First of all, correcting someone's French is like correcting someone's method of cornholing.

Expressing superior skill in the area will not win you friends in the tree house.

Secondly, while I might point out that I am not an ardent Bush-Supporter, nor am I inclined to jingoism, however, your calling Americans STUPID is about as STUPID as calling all Australians convicts.

If you're going to quote French like a pompous git, the least you can do is do it correctly.

Secondly, I only said are ALL Americans as STUPID as George Bush. If you're the sort of person who goes around saying, "George Bush is American, therefore all Americans are George Bush", then it is you who is STUPID.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


If you're going to quote French like a pompous git, the least you can do is do it correctly.

Secondly, I only said are ALL Americans as STUPID as George Bush. If you're the sort of person who goes around saying, "George Bush is American, therefore all Americans are George Bush", then it is you who is STUPID.

With your proven propensity for stereotyping, rash judgements involving millions of people, and certainty that you could solve everything if it were all up to you, seems to me you'd make an excellent American.

But what do I know, I'm a hick Texan.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


With your proven propensity for stereotyping, rash judgements involving millions of people, and certainty that you could solve everything if it were all up to you, seems to you you'd make an excellent American.

But what do I know, I'm a hick Texan.

Where's the rash stereotyping?

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Where's the rash stereotyping?

Well, aside from assuming that "all Bush supporters" equates with "all Americans", how about your regular tirades about all of us who live in the great state of Texas? We don't all have sex with farm animals, regardless of what you think.

I agree with your sentiment, it's stupid to think the UN is going to clean up our mess. I just don't see why you have to make the same stupid mistakes Americans do about labeleing everyone in another country as an idiot. Some of us are working on the problem.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Well, aside from assuming that "all Bush supporters" equates with "all Americans", how about your regular tirades about all of us who live in the great state of Texas? We don't all have sex with farm animals, regardless of what you think.

I agree with your sentiment, it's stupid to think the UN is going to clean up our mess. I just don't see why you have to make the same stupid mistakes Americans do about labeleing everyone in another country as an idiot. Some of us are working on the problem.

Where did I say that 'all Bush supports' equals 'all Americans'? Where did I say that Texans have sex with farm animals? The only time I use stereotype comments like 'hayseed' are against the overt racists like Richard G. I think you're projecting.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Where did I say that 'all Bush supports' equals 'all Americans'? Where did I say that Texans have sex with farm animals? The only time I use stereotype comments like 'hayseed' are against the overt racists like Richard G. I think you're projecting.

Possibly. It just seems to me that sometimes you like to picture the U.S. in terms of a monolithic block of rednecks and fools. It's just not so.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Possibly. It just seems to me that sometimes you like to picture the U.S. in terms of a monolithic block of rednecks and fools. It's just not so.

So, you've got this feeling that I think of the US in terms of a monolithic block of rednecks and fools. Evidence?

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


So, you've got this feeling that I think of the US in terms of a monolithic block of rednecks and fools. Evidence?

Sorry, I don't play these games. The Texas rants and this one are evidence enough. You don't say "Are all Republicans this stupid", you say "Are all Americans this stupid". It loses you the support of people who might otherwise agree with you.

Accept it or not, I couldn't care less.

[c0rbin]

Here in Texas, we don't get surprised if a yellow jacket stings the man who waves a stick at its hive.

[Phil]

Sorry. I know I'm late to this thread, but c0rbin made my day with this:
Originally posted by c0rbin
Attention pedantic dickweeds:

First of all, correcting someone's French is like correcting someone's method of cornholing.

Expressing superior skill in the area will not win you friends in the tree house.

Secondly, while I might point out that I am not an ardent Bush-Supporter, nor am I inclined to jingoism, however, your calling Americans STUPID is about as STUPID as calling all Australians convicts.
That's classic.

As to the rest, I gotta go along with Sundog. Manifesto, seems more like you're picking a fight than starting an intelligent discussion.

[Tmy]

The UN couldnt run a lemonaid stand by themsleves. And the French in the lead? Yeah they're woring wonders in Africa.

Lets just pave over the place and build a mall already!

[LucyR]

Originally posted by BPSCG

Well, now that you've explained it to me (I'm STUPID, after all, all of us Yanks are STUPID), I finally see the light. Hitler and Saddam were our fault.


Well, you did support Saddam in the 80's. As for Hitler, the single most important event that led to his rise was the great depression. Now I wonder where that started? :D

Cheer up BPSCG, it could be worse. You could be an Australian.

[LFTKBS]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Are All Americans This Stupid?

No. Over fifty percent of us didn't vote for him.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by LucyR
Well, you did support Saddam in the 80's. As someone else pointed out here, we supported him as a counterbalance to Iran, a country that had kidnapped and held hostage our citizens. We also supported Stalin against Hitler. Doesn't mean we thought Stalin was an okay guy. It's a dirty world out there.

As for Hitler, the single most important event that led to his rise was the great depression. Now I wonder where that started? :D

No, the single most important event that led to his rise was the failure of anyone to stop him when it could have been done on the cheap. Lots of other countries suffered through the depression of the 1930's without coming up with a Hitler. Next I suppose you're going to tell me it was the Americans who killed Jesus. Cheer up BPSCG, it could be worse. You could be an Australian. Hey, my ancestors weren't good enough to be Europeans, and I know I wouldn't be good enough to be an Australian; I can't hold my beer well enough - I've reached the age when drinking makes me start feeling bad before I start feeling good.

Besides, not a day goes by without my thanking my grandparents (wherever they may be) for having the courage to emigrate to the U.S.

[jj]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain.

MUST we point out that most of us did NOT vote for this guy, and furthermore, he wasn't even elected, he was appointed by a court?

[jj]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


I thin khe was bean sacrarstic.

I think you're understating it, too.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Sundog


Sorry, I don't play these games. The Texas rants and this one are evidence enough. You don't say "Are all Republicans this stupid", you say "Are all Americans this stupid". It loses you the support of people who might otherwise agree with you.

Accept it or not, I couldn't care less.

What Texas rants?

I think the problem here is basic reading comprehension. I mean, what's with your fixation of Republicans? Are you tarring them all with the "Bush is always right" brush? I want to know if there are any Americans who think as per post 1, and if so, why. Because in my opinion, Bush is a moron for thinking so. I'm interested in knowing how, in a million years, he thinks his scenario is going to come to pass.

Predictably (pre-empted by another poster on this thread), some Yanks chose to interperet this as another anti-Yank attack. Well, I can't help that. There're a lot of STUPID people out there.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


So, you've got this feeling that I think of the US in terms of a monolithic block of rednecks and fools. Evidence?
Manny, look at the title of this thread. Simply by asking the question you are putting forth the possibility that they are all stupid. I know you don't really believe this, but such statements are bound to be taken as... well... inflammatory. Don't try to look so innocent. ;)

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Predictably (pre-empted by another poster on this thread), some Yanks chose to interperet this as another anti-Yank attack. Well, I can't help that. There're a lot of STUPID people out there.

I could be mistaken, but if you think I'm one of them, I don't think you'd find a lot of support for that idea.

Okay, in very simple words so you'll understand: Starting a thread with a title such as this one's is insulting. Read that until you get it. If you don't get it, I'll just have to join the group here that dismisses you as a thoughtless loudmouth.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Tmy
The UN couldnt run a lemonaid stand by themsleves
Could they spell "lemonade" (or "themselves"). Careful how you go around criticizing the incompetence of others.

[Shinytop]

Hitler's rise to power was imbedded in the treaties ending WWI. The treaties left Germany so bankrupt anybody with an agenda of blaming it on anyone could come to power.

[Tmy]

Originally posted by Tricky

Could they spell "lemonade" (or "themselves"). Careful how you go around criticizing the incompetence of others.

Your right. I never learned to read so aI have no right to complain about the UN!!!

Methinks Im dsyslex,,, uhhh dyleci....uhhh me no spell good. Its a disablity OK. Why dont you go make fun of some cripples while your at it.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by Tmy


Your right. I never learned to read so aI have no right to complain about the UN!!!

Methinks Im dsyslex,,, uhhh dyleci....uhhh me no spell good. Its a disablity OK. Why dont you go make fun of some cripples while your at it.

LOOK! CRIPPLES! HAHAhahahahaha.....

[bignickel]

Originally posted by Shinytop
Hitler's rise to power was imbedded in the treaties ending WWI. The treaties left Germany so bankrupt anybody with an agenda of blaming it on anyone could come to power.

Sorry, but that's not exactly true. Germany didn't pay squat on it's restitutional payments, and in the few instances that they did: they did it with money they borrowed from the U.S. Needless to say, they never paid that money back.

Germany's economy was in a depression back in the 30s.

Just like everybody else.

The differance was: Germany had an intact infrastructure during the time, as opposed to France, which had to spent it's own money and time during the 20's and 30's rebuilding it, since the fighting in WW1 occured mostly in France, not in Germany.

I recommend William Shirer's "The Rise of the Third Reich" and "The Collapse of the Third Republic" for more information.

[Phil]

If you will indulge me, I've taken the liberty of translating Manifesto's first post in this thread from the original 'Australian' to something a bit more palatable.

Original post:
So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain.

Translation:
I read that George Bush has decided to ask the UN for assistance in the transfer of leadership in Iraq. Where I find his ideas to be quite ill conceived, and his request of the UN to be less than reasonable given the circumstances, I was curious about what the members of the forum who are citizens of the US think of this latest tactic by the Bush administration. Certainly not all of you agree with this course of action where this issue is concerned. Or do you? Perhaps you'd enlighten us.

[Sundog]

Priceless, Phil. :roll:

I should have KNOWN it was just a problem in translation.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Phil
If you will indulge me, I've taken the liberty of translating Manifesto's first post in this thread from the original 'Australian' to something a bit more palatable.

For us stupid Americans, it would have been better to translate it into redneck (http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi)
So how stoopid is yo', Yankees? Do yo' pow'ful reckon thet th' UN will agree t'he'p clean up th' Bush Administrashun's mess wifout significant comprimises? Or is yo' as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? Eff'n yer of th' opinion thet thar's some reason whuffo' th' UN sh'd walk af'er th' US wif a destpan an' broom, please explain, as enny fool kin plainly see.

[Phil]

Originally posted by Tricky

For us stupid Americans, it would have been better to translate it into redneck (http://www.rinkworks.com/dialect/dialectt.cgi)

I don't speak redneck, but I understand it. As I'm sure you do. If you're exposed to it long enough, it starts to sink in.

[Nikk]

Originally posted by Tmy


Your right. I never learned to read so aI have no right to complain about the UN!!!

You got it.

Methinks Im dsyslex,,, uhhh dyleci....uhhh me no spell good. Its a disablity OK. Why dont you go make fun of some cripples while your at it.

We pedants prefer to vivisect kittens. Some cripples are very wiry and those crutches can really really hurt!

[Zep]

Nothing divides us like a common language.. :)



On the subject, and speaking from a DIFFERENT Australian's point of view:

1. No, I don't think all Yanks are stupid. They couldn't possibly all be so yet still have their country so technologically advanced.

2. As with many first world democracies, stupid people seem to gravitate to the arenas where their "talents" come to the fore - politics. These are the same sort of people who believe that TV tells the truth all the time, that pro-wrestling is not rigged theatre, and that the rules are whatever you want them to be at any time as long as they win. GWB is just one example that has simply floated to the top.

3. GWB is currently labouring under the mistaken belief that he can use his country's armed forces for his own political ends, and when he makes a goof, he can order someone else to tidy it up for him. Remember that he was probably raised in a rich family that had paid a fleet of servants to cook and clean the house for him.

4. Reality is (hopefully) going to bite for GWB later this year.

[Phil]

Originally posted by Zep
Nothing divides us like a common language.. :)

On the subject, and speaking from a DIFFERENT Australian's point of view:. . .
We may be divided by a common language and miles and miles of ocean, but as you've shown, we can come together under the umbrella of common courtesy. Thanks for offering your opinions like a gentleman, Zep.

And in case anyone was wondering, we're not really that thin skinned here in the US. Most folks I know are willing to laugh at themselves without hesitation in most instances.

Plus, I'll share this: In all my travels, on surfing trips and otherwise, I never met an Australian that wasn't 100% genuine and to the hilt crazy when it came to tossing back a few. I've come across many that seem to be like that on this board as well.

[Zep]

Thanks, Phil! You going to be at TAM2?

<hijack>
Aaaah! BEER! Now THERE'S a common language we can ALL understand!

Alas, I'm not typical Aussie and can knock back huge amounts - I get shicker too quick, more's the pity!
</hijack>

[Phil]

Originally posted by Zep
Thanks, Phil! You going to be at TAM2?

<hijack>
Aaaah! BEER! Now THERE'S a common language we can ALL understand!

Alas, I'm not typical Aussie and can knock back huge amounts - I get shicker too quick, more's the pity!
</hijack>
I was at TAM1 and hope like hell to make TAM2. Still working out my schedule, but it's looking good so far.

I'll get the first round. ;)

[LucyR]

Originally posted by Shinytop
Hitler's rise to power was imbedded in the treaties ending WWI. The treaties left Germany so bankrupt anybody with an agenda of blaming it on anyone could come to power.

To some extent you're right. However, as I recall, Germany actually ended up paying very little in the name of reparations.

Once the hyper-inflationary period was over, Germany, under the leadership of Gustav Stressemann, began to do quite well. Unfortunately, his death in 1929 (I think) combined with the GD left Germany in disarray. Hitler's real rise began at around this time.

Edit: Sorry BigNickel. See you already said some of this.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Besides, not a day goes by without my thanking my grandparents (wherever they may be) for having the courage to emigrate to the U.S.

Why? Have you ever lived in any other countries?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Tricky
President Bush, or more corectly, his handlers, are simply playing politics. Bush has to appear to be a man of reason, however difficult that will be. I don't think that anyone doubts that there is more to this than a simple appeal to the world. It's the old carrot-and-stick routine. The military and economic juggernaut that is the United States is capable of wielding enormous pressure on countries, but it is important that the US at least make the pretense of trying to negotiate with them.

It's also a face-saving effort by this administration which simultaneously tries to appease both the international community and their own people. They tell the world "we need help", while telling Americans "we were still right". This is a political game played by all leaders, including Saddam who tried to tell the world "we're complying" while telling his people "we're fighting back".

So don't be too hard on the Bushies. Having to go to the UN at all is a slice of crow pie that is sticking in their throats. That thought alone is amusing.

I agree. Bush is throwing a bone out to the dogs barking in the alley. Either they will be quiet and eat it or kill each other over it. It's all good.

That being said I think things would go a lot smoother in Iraq without "international cooperation". Like say 5 to 10 years instead of 40 to 50 years to sort things out.

[Zep]

But see where GWB has placed the USA now? Even his chief allies have become significantly more wary of becoming involved in any more foreign escapades at US behest. And the myriad US "enemies" have changed from just cowering grumblers to being outright annoying pests. Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest unnecessarily...

Perhaps if GWB had used this "US muscle" to take the UN into Iraq with him to start with then he wouldn't be having to deal with this sort of thing at all, and he would have had everyone onside. Saddam would have been no closer to launching an invasion or attack on the USA a few weeks or even months later.

It was sheer impatience, shortsightedness, and lack of diplomatic skills. {shakes head in pity}

[Shinytop]

Originally posted by LucyR


To some extent you're right. However, as I recall, Germany actually ended up paying very little in the name of reparations.

Once the hyper-inflationary period was over, Germany, under the leadership of Gustav Stressemann, began to do quite well. Unfortunately, his death in 1929 (I think) combined with the GD left Germany in disarray. Hitler's real rise began at around this time.

Edit: Sorry BigNickel. See you already said some of this.

After reading your post I Googled "Cause of WWII" and all answers listed the Treaty of Versailles as a prime cause. I also googled Gustav Stressman and it would appear he did a lot to help Germany but the bitterness of the German people at the punishing aspects of the treaty ending the WWI is still considered a primary cause of the rise of Adolf Hitler.

[LucyR]

Well, Hitler certainly played the treaty for all it was worth and used it to inflame the bitterness. On the other hand, I still don't think he would have got very far if Germany's economy was prospering.

[Shinytop]

I can certainly agree with that. Satisfied citizens are not likely to demand change.

[bignickel]

Wellllll, what is the knowledge and experience of a journalist who was actually in Berlin during the 1930's compared to the vast anonymous hordes of the Internet?

Heh. 'Punishing aspects.' I guess a people can become horribly bitter over paying the bill to rebuild the entire infrastructure of a country THEY themselves invaded. Especially when they don't bother to pay hardly any of it, and the amount they do bother to pay back is from money borrowed from another country (and then never paid back).

Must have sucked to have lived in Germany in '30s. Certainly couldn't have sucked more to live in a country that was still covered in rubble from the last war.

The books are out there. You can use Google to give you the top 100 hits of the meta-cultural pop scream that is the Internet, or you can read first-hand accounts of people who actually studied the subject up to write books about it.

[Shinytop]

One thing I have learned in my many years is that there is room for both sides in many disputes to have an element of truth. Rabid defense of one position is often the sign of a closed mind. So, I gather you are saying the Versailles treaty did nothing to bring on WWII?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Zep
But see where GWB has placed the USA now? Even his chief allies have become significantly more wary of becoming involved in any more foreign escapades at US behest. And the myriad US "enemies" have changed from just cowering grumblers to being outright annoying pests. Talk about stirring up a hornet's nest unnecessarily...

Perhaps if GWB had used this "US muscle" to take the UN into Iraq with him to start with then he wouldn't be having to deal with this sort of thing at all, and he would have had everyone onside. Saddam would have been no closer to launching an invasion or attack on the USA a few weeks or even months later.

It was sheer impatience, shortsightedness, and lack of diplomatic skills. {shakes head in pity}

Iraq could end up with a Baghdad Wall for the next fifty years.
Are you from German Baghdad or French Baghdad? GWB tried to get the UN to grow some nuts, but you can only wait so long.

I don't believe we were even remotely concerned with Saddam launching an attack on the US. He definately had plans on taking over Kuwait and Iran as soon as no one was looking. This could have destabilized a lot more of the planet than removing Saddam from power.

Uh, how many years was diplomacy tried on Saddam? At least Bush's solution actually did something.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal


Iraq could end up with a Baghdad Wall for the next fifty years.
Are you from German Baghdad or French Baghdad? GWB tried to get the UN to grow some nuts, but you can only wait so long.


What makes you think there are any parallels between this episode and Berlin? Do you think that France and Germany hate each other like the US hated the Soviets?

[Frank Newgent]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Iraq could end up with a Baghdad Wall for the next fifty years.

Iraq is likely, I believe, to end up a Shiite theocracy. Ironic, considering how the US provisioned Hussein in the Iraqi war against those naughty Shiites next door

[Dancing David]

Mr. manifesto:

No not all americans view the world through the eyes of the shrub! His father would have certainly played his cards a little better. When looking at American politics in the post LBK era, it is important to note only one thing when it comes to US foriegn policy.

How Does It Play At Home?

This GWB, is the son of a very shrewd politician, and I am sure he gets some very good advice. The whole thing is to allow the american public in the blind moo moo moo moo herd to feel that
A. We are justified in fighting evil alone.
B. The Evil Europeans are just wanting a Cut Of The Pie after We Did All The Work.
C. We don't need the European Ungratefuls ar the Uneffective Nations to tell Us What To Do.


D. And this way no one looks at the money being funneled to Iraq through Haliburton.

E. No one , outside the miltary will get any press, questioning why Rumsfeld, set up this increadibly chaotic post war situation.

F. No one will ask questions like, where are the WMD, what theres no link to 9-11-2001, and other embarrassing question.

there is an axiom that when the home situation looks bad American presidents will focus on the foriegn policy.


And to anwer your question, Yes, most american are very parochial, they know very little of the world outside our borders and they find it totaly boring and nutty.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by LucyR


Why? Have you ever lived in any other countries? My parents are both off-the-boat Frogs, so I still have family over there. Needless to say I've been there many times (so how come you speak such lousy Froggish, BPSCG...?), and it is truly a lovely country in many ways. Paris is glorious, and Provence, where my family now lives, is as beautiful as Peter Mayle's books describe. And the shabbiest little restaurant there could charge gourmet prices if it were to relocate to Washington, D.C.

All that having been said, I'm still glad I'm here. Not least of all because if my paternal grandparents hadn't come here running for their lives in 1940, Hitler and his French collaborators (remember, until 1933, France had just as distinguished a history of antisemitism as Germany - are the Frogs trying to catch up now?) would have melted them down for soap, and then where would I be now?

As far as other countries go, I can't say I've visited them all, (or even most of them), but c'mon - do I really have to have lived in Haiti to know that I wouldn't like it?

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto
Link (http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/story.asp?j=98777254&p=98778yy7) (other news sources will probably publish similar info later on, this is what's available 6.45pm AEST)




So how stupid are you, Yankees? Do you really think that the UN will agree to help clean up the Bush Administration's mess without significant comprimises? Or are you as dumb as slack-jaw Dubya? If you are of the opinion that there's some reason why the UN should walk after the US with a dustpan and broom, please explain.

A lot smarter than 70% of the world's population. Also smart enough to not equate the actions of a moron with the beliefs of a whole nation. I think we all have leaders of our respective countries that do things which we may find reprehensible. And, no, I am not dumb; in fact, I actually speak quite well, thank you.

[bignickel]

(Chandler)Why?! Why? WHy? WHy? Why? Why would I do that?(/Chadler)

Originally posted by Shinytop
Hitler's rise to power was imbedded in the treaties ending WWI. The treaties left Germany so bankrupt anybody with an agenda of blaming it on anyone could come to power.

This is what you said: that the treaties backrupted German in the 30's. Not the worldwide depression, not the mistakes of the then-current government, but the treaties themselves.

I'm very familiar with this argument: it's the one the Nazis used when they were looking for a scapegoat for countries condition in the 30's. Well, that and the Jews of course. It was all the other power's fault, asking that German pay for the re-building of the countries that GERMANY invaded and wrecked. How horrible!

What exactly is the dispute here? In order to have a dispute, you must at least have 2 sides. So what exactly is your side? Are you claiming that Germany DID pay huge amounts to the countries named in the Versailles Treaty? With their own money (and not money they borrowed from the U.S. and then never paid back)? And that somehow this caused a depression in Germany?

I'm curious: who did the U.S. have to pay huge amounts of money to, in order to get a depression? Or France?

I'm asking you to back up what you've said. I've listed William Shirer, given you the name of two books he's written about what happened. What you've given me is a mention of a "google listing' of anonymous internet posters.

I don't want to come down hard on you Shinytop. Just read a few books on the subject before telling me I'm wrong about the 'common wisdom' regarding the origins of WW2. Then we can discuss this further.

[Shinytop]

Sorry BigNickle, I am not playing. I have already said there is room for both factors. If you do not think so you may play by yourself. I really don't care if you like my opinion or those of any sources I might post. I have already said where my additional sources besides my many years of living and studying come from. Go fight all the Google sources and demand you are right and nobody else in entitled to an opinion. This is not worth fighting about as I indicated in my last post. If you demand my surrender for satisfaction you will just have remain unsatisfied.

[bignickel]

I suppose that if someone came on this board and said that the depression in Germany was caused by the Jews, I should let that pass too?

Because, as you've said, there's room for both 'factors.'

Sheesh, all this time, and no one posts the German side anymore. After all, if you type it in Google, and get a whole bunch of pages talking about the Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, that should be enough for us, eh?

You, in fact, haven't provided squat. Not only do you not post any sources for your crappy positition of flaming everyone but Germans themselves, but you ask that I, AYE, go and google them myself. And for everyone I tear apart on my own precious time, you'll just add "well, what about all the others."

YOU don't want to play this game? YOU don't?

This is a skeptics forums, shinytop. You make a claim, YOU back it up. It's not up to me to do your homework for you. You could have used this opportunity to expand your brain, but it's still exactly the way it is before it hit this thread. Then you get to rattle on about 'closed' minds.

This kind of crap I might up with from some of the younger board members, but I saw your profile. You should know better.

You make a claim here, you back it up.

End of lesson.

[Shinytop]

Screw your lesson. I don't know who the hell you think you are but you do not impress me.

I already told you how to get my sources and that my opinion comes from years of paying attention to history. I am not going to fight over whose source is better. Get that through your thick skull and quit patronizing.

Now one more time. Google "Cause of WWII" and read. Don't like, like it, I don't give a rat's ass. I can give an opinion without worrying about pleasing BigNickle. Now go patronize some children, cause I don't need your crap.

[bignickel]

From 'The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich' p, 61, by William Shirer
And was not the democratic Republic, which has surrendered to the enemy and accepted the burden of reparations, to blame for the disaster? Unfortunately for its survival, the Republic did bear a responsibility. The inflation could have been halted by merely balancing the budget - a difficult but not impossible feat. Adequate taxation might have achieved this, but the new government did not dare to tax adequately. After all, the cost of the war - 164 billion marks - had been met not even in part by direct taxation but 93 billions of it by war loans, 29 billions out of Treasury bills and the rest by increasing the issue of paper money. Instead of drastically raising taxes on those who could pay, the republican governemnt actually deduced them in 1921.

From then on, goaded by the big industrialists and landlords, who stood to gain through the masses of the people were financially ruined, the government deliverately let the mark tumble in order to free the State of its public debts, to escape from paying reparation and to sabotage the French inthe Ruhr. Moreover, the destruction of the currency enabled German heavy industry to wipe out its indebtedness by refunding its obligations on worthless marks. The General Staff, disguised as teh "Truppenamt" (Office of Troops) to evade the peace treaty which supposedly had outlawed it, took notice that the fall of the mark wiped out the war debts and thus left Germany financially unencumbered for a new war.

The masses fo the people, however, did not realize how much the industrial tycoons, the Army and the State were benefiting from the ruin of the currency... In their misery and hopelessness they made the Republic the scapegoat for all that happened.

Wierd how that first paragraph is so similar to today's circumstances. Those who do not learn from history...

"I see your true colors, shining thru..."

[Shinytop]

Gee, now I feel I misjudged you. Thank you for posting a source that acknowledges the reparations were a large part of Germany's problems.

[bignickel]

Wow, from "the government deliverately let the mark tumble in order to free the State of its public debts, to escape from paying reparation and to sabotage the French inthe Ruhr"

to "the reparations were a large part of Germany's problems."

My neck might be suffering whiplash.


Really, if you liked that passage so much, check out the book. Even if you leave it still thinking that the war reparations bankrupted Germany, you'll at least have a much better understanding of how the fascists were given power there.

[Shinytop]

I see. Sorry to cause your injury but you don't read the same way I do, apparently. The crushing debt, a combination of reparations and war debt, was the reason given for the Republic allowing the free fall of the currency which led to the people blaming the Republic and welcoming the party, Nazi, that promised to bring back Germany's glory. Are you really denying the aritcle says that?

Edited to add that I read the book many years ago.

[Zep]

Serious case of thread-drift happening, folks??? I think so...

[Shinytop]

You are absoulutely correct. I will not go OT in this thread again. My apoligies to one and all.

[bignickel]

Thank you Zep. That was going nowhere.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread:
"Are All Americans This Stupid?"

[Zep]

Please don't apologise! The discussion was seriously interesting and your comments were enlightening, but I was only just noticing the thread topic now!

[bignickel]

Mayhaps a different thread...?


But anyways: "Are All Americans This Stupid?"

Do I really have to translate the initial post into 'Jive' in order to get discussion going again?

Or maybe fix the forum server (but that's beyond my power).

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by bignickel
Mayhaps a different thread...?


But anyways: "Are All Americans This Stupid?"

Do I really have to translate the initial post into 'Jive' in order to get discussion going again?

Or maybe fix the forum server (but that's beyond my power).

How about a thread titled "Missouri is the Butthole of the Universe" (formerly known as revelations from the "blow me state")?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Shinytop
Screw your lesson. I don't know who the hell you think you are but you do not impress me.

I already told you how to get my sources and that my opinion comes from years of paying attention to history. I am not going to fight over whose source is better. Get that through your thick skull and quit patronizing.

Now one more time. Google "Cause of WWII" and read. Don't like, like it, I don't give a rat's ass. I can give an opinion without worrying about pleasing BigNickle. Now go patronize some children, cause I don't need your crap.

Very eloquently put. You were an English major, I take it?

[Shane Costello]

FWIW (and in case it hasn't been mentioned on this thread) the US never signed the Versailles Treaty in 1919. Congress rejected it.

[Shinytop]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Very eloquently put. You were an English major, I take it?

No, but when people don't get the message when I am polite I attempt to get the message through otherwise.:)

Thank you for asking.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Cain


That's right -- he's the president. Presidents are elected by the American people -- the smartest, greatest, godliest souls on earth. All presidents are, therefore, practically infalliable -- except for Clinton, who was the opposite of infalliable.
Yes.
Perhaps. I can't really think clearly at the moment: Britney Spears is staring at me through the cover of that Rollingstone issue right now!

http://content.rollingstone.com/content/6720/Images/00332867.jpg

And I look at all perspectives: I watch Fox AND CNN. Plus, as you know by now, I even read pinko publications like Rollingstone. It's filled with anti-Bush propaganda.

Wow, I'm so glad I didn't stop reading this boring thread. I was so close to almost missing that.

[Chanileslie]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto




PS- don't forget that those Communists you Yanks lose so much sleep over helped you defeat Hitler. Ya couldn't have done it without 'em! ;)

Yep, it was awful nice of them to help 'us Yanks'. I mean, we had so much to loose if Hitler triumphed, eh? Unlike the English, French and so forth.

Oh btw, you have just invalidated the conversation by your use of Hitler in an unrelated subject.

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Chanileslie


Yep, it was awful nice of them to help 'us Yanks'. I mean, we had so much to loose if Hitler triumphed, eh? Unlike the English, French and so forth.

Oh btw, you have just invalidated the conversation by your use of Hitler in an unrelated subject.

Uh, I was responding to BPSCG's reference to America defeating the Nazis. BPSCG has said, in one breath, that America defeated Nazis and Communists. My point was that America quickly forgets who her allies are. Say what you like about America having nothing to 'loose', the fact is America could not have defeated the Nazis without the help of the Communists.

Don't worry about your 'btw' looking stupid, though. It can happen to anyone (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&action=showpost&postid=1870107873).

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Mr Manifesto


Uh, I was responding to BPSCG's reference to America defeating the Nazis. BPSCG has said, in one breath, that America defeated Nazis and Communists. My point was that America quickly forgets who her allies are. Say what you like about America having nothing to 'loose', the fact is America could not have defeated the Nazis without the help of the Communists.

Don't worry about your 'btw' looking stupid, though. It can happen to anyone (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&action=showpost&postid=1870107873).

Oh wow Manifesto, is that an apology to me or an example how you can look stupid by jumping to conclusions with out reading the posts/thread? Or is it both?

[Mr Manifesto]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Oh wow Manifesto, is that an apology to me or an example how you can look stupid by jumping to conclusions with out reading the posts/thread? Or is it both?

Both.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by Zep
Serious case of thread-drift happening, folks??? I think so...

I must accept responsibility for this occurrence. But I don’t feel any smug satisfaction in doing so.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by BPSCG
My parents are both off-the-boat Frogs, so I still have family over there. Needless to say I've been there many times (so how come you speak such lousy Froggish, BPSCG...?), and it is truly a lovely country in many ways. Paris is glorious, and Provence, where my family now lives, is as beautiful as Peter Mayle's books describe. And the shabbiest little restaurant there could charge gourmet prices if it were to relocate to Washington, D.C.

All that having been said, I'm still glad I'm here. Not least of all because if my paternal grandparents hadn't come here running for their lives in 1940, Hitler and his French collaborators (remember, until 1933, France had just as distinguished a history of antisemitism as Germany - are the Frogs trying to catch up now?) would have melted them down for soap, and then where would I be now?

As far as other countries go, I can't say I've visited them all, (or even most of them), but c'mon - do I really have to have lived in Haiti to know that I wouldn't like it?

Thanks for your interesting reply.

Just a general remark: I have lived in a number of different countries including the US and South Africa. My standard of living in the latter was better than in the former. This however, is not a reflection on either country. It says more about my respective financial situations. I personally don't take the concept of patriotism too seriously. Besides, my ancestry is British, and I am therefore quietly confident that I'm better than anyone.

[LucyR]

Originally posted by Shane Costello
FWIW (and in case it hasn't been mentioned on this thread) the US never signed the Versailles Treaty in 1919. Congress rejected it.

Not sure exactly what that implies. I thought it was really the provisions relating to membership in the League of Nations to which they objected, not the harsh treatment of Germany.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by LucyR
Besides, my ancestry is British, and I am therefore quietly confident that I'm better than anyone. :roll: "An intensely snobbish group, but who exactly they're snubbing is an international mystery." (From P.J. O'Rourke's classic, horribly offensive and wildly funny mid-1970's National Lampoon screed, Foreigners Around the World.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Originally posted by BPSCG
:roll: "An intensely snobbish group, but who exactly they're snubbing is an international mystery." (From P.J. O'Rourke's classic, horribly offensive and wildly funny mid-1970's National Lampoon screed, Foreigners Around the World.

That's cos its purely a domestic issue. We are all too busy knowing we're better than each other (Scotland/England, Yorkshire/Lancashire, North of the River/South of the River) to have any time left over to look down on foreigners.

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Jaggy Bunnet
That's cos its purely a domestic issue. We are all too busy knowing we're better than each other (Scotland/England, Yorkshire/Lancashire, North of the River/South of the River) to have any time left over to look down on foreigners. Ah, I see. So you don't look down on the Frogs... :wink: