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A Christian Sceptic
26th January 2008, 02:08 PM
In case anyone's interested.

A Book Review:

Jesus: An Historian’s Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (1977)


“But above all, if we apply to the New Testament, as we should, the same sort of criteria as we should apply to other ancient writings containing historical material, we can no more reject Jesus’ existence than we can reject the existence of a mass of pagan personages whose reality as historical figures is never questioned., p. 200”


I took a Roman History course in college and when it came to the topic of Jesus the history teacher (who was not a Christian I don’t think) kept it simple – most historians believe he existed and what we know of him was he was a Jewish teacher who started the religion of Christianity. Anything more about what his life meant, what his teachings meant, and religious aspects are not the realm of history. This teacher was very adament about getting the point across to us students that the historian takes each piece of literature for what it is – Shakespeare is good drama, Dante is good poetry, Suetonius is good gossip. :) All these may contain history in them and it’s the historians job, if possible, to glean and separate the history out.

Michael Grant attempts to do this with the gospels to discover the factual Jesus. As he writes: “There are three possible approaches to this task. One can write as a believer, or as an unbeliever, or (as I have attempted to do) as a student of history seeking, as far as one’s background and conditions permit, to employ methods that make belief or unbelief irrelevant. P. 198”

He combines his extensive knowledge of Rome (He was a classicist with a specialization in ancient currency - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Grant_%28author%29) with what was known of Judaism to attempt to build up a history of Jesus’ life. This is tough though because the primary sources are the Gospels which he admits are entirely unique forms of literature: “They do not fit into any known genre of literature, ancient or modern., p. 180” He does, thankfully in my opinion, recognize that the Gospels weren’t meant to be history. “the writers of the gospels, their aims being what they were , had no intention of limiting themselves to these facts of prosaic history. For they interwove them with a great deal of other material as well. But so did ancient pagan writers on historical subjects. P. 182”

Michael Grant does explain that the history of Christianity is to be looked at, because although the primary reason for writing the gospels was spiritual and the history was second, the claims of Christianity are of historical importance. Michael Grant boldly claims “since Christianity is the only religion which stands or falls by supposed historical happenings. P. 182”

The majority of the book Michael Grant spends going through different periods and themes of Jesus life, what he probably claimed and how people interpreted those claims. The last few chapters are a summary and explanations of how historical analyses works. He also touches on the christ-myth believers with which he, obviously, disagreed.

Since this book only covers Jesus life he only briefly touches on the beginnings of the early church and what he believes happened. He apparently has a few other books – one called The Jews in the Roman World , one called St Peter: A Biography, and one called Saint Paul. Perhaps he talks more about that in those books.

Christians might want to read this, not only for the original interpretation of the factual events, which may be challenging in and of themselves, but also for all the background information this book provides about the times and places. The bibliography he includes has many other books to dive further into. People who do not believe in Christianity might still like to read this – if anything, to learn about how a prominent historian viewed Jesus.

As is to be expected some of his interpretations of some of the verses I disagree with. But overall I can’t tell what Michael Grant really believes. He comes to some conclusions but he never tells what that means to him or should mean to me or how I should take it – and perhaps that’s a strength. A historian shouldn’t be telling you those things – he should be concerned with finding the truth itself and trying to lay it bare for all to see. A historian shouldn’t want something to turn out to be true or false. That, to Michael Grant, is the correct approach. And with Jesus it appears the challenge to historians and laymen alike is to determine what Jesus said and did and then consider the significance of what he said and did.

After reading this book I’m left with the conviction of the historical fact of Jesus existence more than ever, but I’m not satisfied with some of the questions his book leaves me with. I’ll have to read his other works in order to satisfy the curiousity which he has invoked.

Roadtoad
26th January 2008, 02:45 PM
I'll have to give it a look at some point.

Nogbad
26th January 2008, 03:30 PM
Michael Grant was a well known historian in UK academic circles. His books were considered a good bridge between drier academic offerings and more populist lightweight efforts. Some dons considered that he skated too quickly over some issues that were still a matter of academic debate but as he was writing for a wider audience this is perhaps understandable. I haven't read much of his stuff even though he was a professor at my old University (long before I was there though :) ) and I haven't dipped into any of his biographies.

In the quotes above I was intrigued to see that he used the term Pagan twice. As a Classicist he would have known that this was a pejorative used by Romans to refer to country bumpkins rather than as a term to apply to non-Christians so I was mildly confused as to which context he was using it.

I tend towards the view that Jesus was a historical character that lived and died during a turbulent period of Jewish history gripped with Messianic fever. Consequently, I don't have an issue with an approach that sets the historical backdrop and attempts to tease out of the information available to create a more 3D Jewish individual. Given the purpose of the Gospels and their brevity I would have thought this quite hard work but Grant was a prolific writer. I have no idea what his own beliefs were but I am sure the book will be readable and interesting.

UnrepentantSinner
27th January 2008, 02:48 AM
Michael Grant is known to me primarily for his take on The Twelve Ceasars. Sounds like an interesting book, but I don't read much any more.

kedo1981
27th January 2008, 06:13 AM
So how does he address the fact the Gospels were not written by any of the Apostles?

Were written decades latter than the events being described and in some cases generations.

That several of the books do not jag with each other’s facts.

That the early church did a cut and paste on the bible, completely eliminating entire testaments.

Or the fact that, in terms of historical figures, Jesus is the only one that is claimed to be divine, thus making an extraordinary claim that by all logic should be held up to a higher degree of (evidence, proof, skepticism).

If you can show me proof that one single person has been murdered because they didn’t like Shakespeare’s plays, then I will go to church every Sunday for the rest of the year.

Nogbad
27th January 2008, 06:19 AM
So how does he address the fact the Gospels were not written by any of the Apostles?

Were written decades latter than the events being described and in some cases generations.

That several of the books do not jag with each other’s facts.

That the early church did a cut and paste on the bible, completely eliminating entire testaments.

Or the fact that, in terms of historical figures, Jesus is the only one that is claimed to be divine, thus making an extraordinary claim that by all logic should be held up to a higher degree of (evidence, proof, skepticism).

If you can show me proof that one single person has been murdered because they didn’t like Shakespeare’s plays, then I will go to church every Sunday for the rest of the year.

I haven't read the book but I would be most surprised if he doesn't tackle some of these issues and I would be even more surprised if it reads as an apologist tract. I have a vague recollection that the book was not that well received amongst more dogmatic Christians.

Mobyseven
27th January 2008, 06:34 AM
I'll keep that one in the back of my mind - my 'to read' list is getting rather long.

If you've read it, you may want to write a short review of it for the 'book reviews' section of the forum?

Bikewer
27th January 2008, 08:41 AM
Even Bart Ehrman (Lost Christianities and many others), who is decidedly not an apologist, is inclined to think that there was a "historical" Jesus.
However, he admits that there is essentially no direct evidence of the fellow. He thinks of him as an "Apocalyptic" preacher who was blown up into a Messianic figure post-death.

UnrepentantSinner
27th January 2008, 10:04 AM
Even Bart Ehrman (Lost Christianities and many others), who is decidedly not an apologist, is inclined to think that there was a "historical" Jesus.
However, he admits that there is essentially no direct evidence of the fellow. He thinks of him as an "Apocalyptic" preacher who was blown up into a Messianic figure post-death.

Actually this summarizes my problem with the "Jesus never existed" argument vs. the "literal Gospels" sides. If the "historical" Jesus is defined as the mild rabbi-zealot described in most of the Gospels didn't exist, then were did the first evangelists of the Jesus Movement get their inspiration? I have a hard time believing that, after (the supposed) Egyptian bondage, Babylonian captivity and conquest by Alexander, the Hebrews would suddenly, in 30 A.D.ish, decide that an imaginary Messiah had come, failed to fulfill or claimed to have fulfilled "differently" all sorts of Messianic prophecy, etc. etc.

I'm with Ehrman. Jesus most likely existed and it's his followers that propigated the faith... along with converts like Paul who never actually met the man.

A Christian Sceptic
27th January 2008, 02:13 PM
It looks like the book review was added to JREF's book review section.

http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=80

CapelDodger
27th January 2008, 04:45 PM
Even Bart Ehrman (Lost Christianities and many others), who is decidedly not an apologist, is inclined to think that there was a "historical" Jesus.
However, he admits that there is essentially no direct evidence of the fellow. He thinks of him as an "Apocalyptic" preacher who was blown up into a Messianic figure post-death.

I've reached that conclusion myself. I doubt we'll ever find much more detail, since that apocalyptic movement was practically eliminated during and after the First Jewish Revolt. Not completely, of course (cf the Second Jewish Revolt, which really was the end of it).

CapelDodger
27th January 2008, 05:17 PM
I'm with Ehrman. Jesus most likely existed and it's his followers that propigated the faith... along with converts like Paul who never actually met the man.

Any sect associated with Jesus would have been destroyed or scattered during the Jewish Revolt. Paul's letters to the communities he'd proselytised give the impression that people were counter-proselytising. "Don't listen to him, he's a nutter. There's no New Covenant, m'kay? Jesus was a man, not a demi-god."

A particular point of contention was the practice of dining with Gentiles - Paul was for it, "some sent from Jerusalem" emphatically weren't. It seems that the "Jerusalem Church" was traditionally Jewish, whereas Paul was constructing (or elaborating) a sect that was hardly Jewish at all, but was very Greek.

UnrepentantSinner
27th January 2008, 10:25 PM
Any sect associated with Jesus would have been destroyed or scattered during the Jewish Revolt. Paul's letters to the communities he'd proselytised give the impression that people were counter-proselytising. "Don't listen to him, he's a nutter. There's no New Covenant, m'kay? Jesus was a man, not a demi-god."

A particular point of contention was the practice of dining with Gentiles - Paul was for it, "some sent from Jerusalem" emphatically weren't. It seems that the "Jerusalem Church" was traditionally Jewish, whereas Paul was constructing (or elaborating) a sect that was hardly Jewish at all, but was very Greek.

Hence the rise of sects like the Arians. I still give credence to the "Jesus Movement" scholars since this new religion couldn't have spontanously generated IMO so I'm inclined to go with your scattered observation rather than destroyed. While the revolt in the 60s to 70 was crushed, it was only 30ish years later that another rebellion occured under the messianic figure of Bar Kochba and Rabbi Akiva.