Satanic D&D... for the kids!

[zombiebex]

I work at a day care center, and the second half of my day with with a large group of school age children, mostly boys, who come to the center after school until their parents pick them up.

In an attempt to keep the boys occupied and to keep them from their usual bullying, fighting over the video games, and destructive boredom, I dusted off my old Dungeons and Dragons books, hauled them into work, and whipped up a simplified version of the game for the boys, aged about 9-11. They're hooked. They love it. They love making characters, they're always calling me over to roll up a monster and help them level. I'm thrilled that they're getting along, that they look forward to coming, and they're being creative and using math skills at the same time.

Well, the inevitable happened today. The parent of a girl who doesn't even play complained that the game was Satanic to a co-worker. The co-worker knows diddly squat about the game, and carried the complaint onto me. I said "Dungeons and Dragons is about as Satanic as Harry Potter." I should have expected the reply, "Well, her mom doesn't let her read Harry Potter, either."

Now I'm afraid the other shoe is going to drop when the parent inevitably goes to the boss with these complaints.

Any thoughts? What should I argue when asked about the Satanic nature of this silly little role playing game by the boss, the parents, and the kids?

[quixotecoyote]

You're probably going to have to stop the game, unfortunately. Ignorant angry parents tend to cause a lot of damage when they get going and it's unusual a boss is going to risk losing a client just to make his employees happy.

[A Christian Sceptic]

You might want to talk to the boss before someone else does.

Then you have control of how your boss hears about it and that your boss gets accurate information instead of waiting until you are put on the defensive.

Then respect any decision that is made.

[zombiebex]

Boss wasn't in today... I told her ahead of time I was bringing in the books and thought the kids would really enjoy them. I know the office is sick of making copies of the character sheets... :rolleyes:

You're right, I'll try and snag her tomorrow.

[gnome]

Or to risk losing a client by arguing against their ignorance, even if he knows they're wrong.

Unless you can get some angry parents to threaten to pull their kids if the game is stopped :)

[NobbyNobbs]

Ask them to define "Satanic".

Ask them if they've ever played the game or read any of the rules.

Ask them where they get their information from.

[Kochanski]

Go here: http://members.tripod.com/~limsk/pulling.htm

This is the Pulling Report that Michael Stackpole put together about gaming and Satanism and suicide and such. It smashes the whole stupid and very old idea.

[zombiebex]

Ask them to define "Satanic".

Ask them if they've ever played the game or read any of the rules.

Ask them where they get their information from.

Much as I would love to educate this woman, I don't think that's all the best idea. She's a client and a mother of one of the little angels in my care. The spell casting side of the books are probably what rankles this mom, even though I don't even bother with spells, it's too much work for casual fun with these young boys. We just look at the pictures, come up with characters, and roll die to track hits and damage. One of their favorite parts of the game is conquering a cool looking monster and making it a pet.

Even though this game lets the kids work together, sit quietly, hone math skills, come up with stories... we all know cooperation, peace and quiet, arithmetic, and creative writing are tools of Satan.

[athon]

D&D is indeed a great way to get kids to become creative, increase team work and to do some pretty complex arithmetic. It all comes down to how much pull this mother has. You need to find where your boss stands and flow with it, unfortunately.

If it's one thing we all know well here, it's that the ignorant few often get their way simply through raising enough of a fuss to create fear.

Athon

[patchbunny]

If you wanted to move off of D&D, there are a host of other role playing systems out there that the kids may like. I'm currently playing a sci-fi game in the GURPS system where we're interstellar merchants with a planetary mafia on our tail and mysterious crystalline aliens roaming about. Not your typical dungeon crawl, but it's still a load of fun.

As a nice bonus, our GM lets us earn experience by writing about what happened in the previous session. Most write letters home, but I'm taking the opportunity to try and improve my writing skills by turning out 3-5 pages of short fiction. Might be fun to let the kids do the same.

[Marquis de Carabas]

You should cast the mind bondage spell on the parents. It will make them buy you $200 worth of new D&D figures and manuals.

[Dan O.]

They say telling the truth never hurts.

Take the games away and tell the boys that one of the girls parents is objecting to them playing and they won't be allowed to play while that girl is still attending. :p

[Wildy]

I fail to see why this woman is complaining. It sounds like her daughter isn't doing anything in relation to her complaint.

It sounds like a real life Chick Tract.

[nails3jesus0]

you could show them this, lol (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/90046)

[Furi]

I had very similar once at scouts, D&D and a small group of scouts playing it, one of the lads parents, started going on about ouija boards and black magic and the like, to which as a responsible SL I could only blink at her in total and utter disbelief.

reasoning was along the lines of "it is satanic because it involves magic and as magic can be interpreterd as miracles it is cheapening holy miracles by making the ideas of magic common thus is the work of satan" and then the usual crapulence against summoning demons and such.

So I rolled a d20 and made my charisma check and had a word with the scouts and the Mum, stopped the D&D and I brought Aftermath in for them the next week so they could play post biochemical apocolyptic Punk thugs armed with adhoc urban weapons and home made explosive, THAT was acceptable as no magic, just breaking & entering, mindless physical violence, and good chemistry.

[timhau]

For the proper way to deal with morons like this, you have to be of high enough level to cast Stinking Cloud.

[slingblade]

For the proper way to deal with morons like this, you have to be of high enough level to cast Stinking Cloud.

They'll just whip out a Saviour throw.

[JFrankA]

Any way you can get the boss to play D&D? I mean sit in on one of the times when the children are playing and roll a charactor and play along? It may be a little exterme, but if the boss actually knows what goes on in a game, she see it for what it is.

[dglas]

Once I had some kids fresh off some church function or another approach me in a store where myself and a few friends were playing Magic: The Gathering. One of them asked me if the cards let us cast spells. I put on my most diabolical face (peering out over the top of my glasses) and used my best ominous voice, dramatically held a card up and said,

"This....


....is a piece of cardboard. let's try to stay in the real world, shall we?"

[BlackKat]

If you do go to your boss and explain the situation to them I wouldn't mention the Harry Potter thing about that girl's parent. That way if D+D gets shutdown you'll have a fall back activity. :P

[D'rok]

you could show them this, lol (http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/90046)

Love it! Great update of the original:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5331429585309819856

[Nogbad]

If you do go to your boss and explain the situation to them I wouldn't mention the Harry Potter thing about that girl's parent. That way if D+D gets shutdown you'll have a fall back activity. :P

:D

It is horrible the way the tail wags the dog in these circumstances. Those that get wound up about this sort of thing do go through a lot of fear and angst though - it might not be rational but to them superstition is as real as a real thing that has been down to the shops for an extra packet of real.

In a risk averse society I am guessing the boss will take the route of least resistance unless the other parents complain about its withdrawal - in which case he/she may then contemplate jumping off the roof ;)

[Filippo Lippi]

Remember this simple equation

Edition > 2 = evil

;)

[fuelair]

You're probably going to have to stop the game, unfortunately. Ignorant angry parents tend to cause a lot of damage when they get going and it's unusual a boss is going to risk losing a client just to make his employees happy.

and ignorant parents are in the majority.:)

[kev]

D&D - I can't even begin to count the hours I spent playing that game as a kid. I would literally sit and read, draw and create for 8-10 hours at a time. Funny thing is, even with all of that "satanic" D&D, I never thought to question anything religious. It took me reading some of the things written by our country's founding fathers to do that:) Keep em away from the historical documents and books I say!

[Furi]

Maybe if you RPd it in a "what would Jeebus do/be" type mode
You would have to roll yourself a Paladin, and an even more nauseatingly sickly Goody goody one than most

Paladins Suck, Chaotic Evil FTW

[joobz]

If you wanted to move off of D&D, there are a host of other role playing systems out there that the kids may like. I'm currently playing a sci-fi game in the GURPS system where we're interstellar merchants with a planetary mafia on our tail and mysterious crystalline aliens roaming about. Not your typical dungeon crawl, but it's still a load of fun.

As a nice bonus, our GM lets us earn experience by writing about what happened in the previous session. Most write letters home, but I'm taking the opportunity to try and improve my writing skills by turning out 3-5 pages of short fiction. Might be fun to let the kids do the same.
I think this is a good solution.
Move away from the evil and potentially dark influence of D&D to something more wholesome like call of cthulhu.

[Nogbad]

Has FSM considered making a noodley based board game?

[fuelair]

Also, to be clear on semantics: you have to follow the boss's policy. There is no requirement to respect it. I never respect bosses who cave (unless they were wrong to begin with and "cave" to correct.

[Beerina]

I work at a day care center, and the second half of my day with with a large group of school age children, mostly boys, who come to the center after school until their parents pick them up.

In an attempt to keep the boys occupied and to keep them from their usual bullying, fighting over the video games, and destructive boredom, I dusted off my old Dungeons and Dragons books, hauled them into work, and whipped up a simplified version of the game for the boys, aged about 9-11. They're hooked. They love it. They love making characters, they're always calling me over to roll up a monster and help them level. I'm thrilled that they're getting along, that they look forward to coming, and they're being creative and using math skills at the same time.

Well, the inevitable happened today. The parent of a girl who doesn't even play complained that the game was Satanic to a co-worker. The co-worker knows diddly squat about the game, and carried the complaint onto me. I said "Dungeons and Dragons is about as Satanic as Harry Potter." I should have expected the reply, "Well, her mom doesn't let her read Harry Potter, either."

Now I'm afraid the other shoe is going to drop when the parent inevitably goes to the boss with these complaints.

Any thoughts? What should I argue when asked about the Satanic nature of this silly little role playing game by the boss, the parents, and the kids?

I'm guessing that pointing out that worshipping Satan has caused far less agony for the human race than worshipping Yahweh probably wouldn't work too well.

[Jimbo07]

You know, you may have to knuckle under...

... The parent has to know that you folks take her concerns seriously. If not, she may brand you something much worse than satanists... ATHEISTS. She, and others, may feel compelled to pull their children from the daycare, tell other parents that daycares are atheist institutions, and deprive their children of the socialization benefits.

Better to keep your hands on the kids, as much as possible...

:(

[TheDoLittle]

As previously stated by several others here, employers will almost always side with clients even if it means dismissing the employee.

When I first met my wife, she was an elementary teacher at a small private school for low income kids. She taught a mixed class of 3rd through 5th graders. She also headed up the after school program as many of these kids had parent's that couldn't pick them up until 6pm. To help I would show up twice a week with several board games under my arm. Even though the school was not attached to any church, many of the parents were very religious. In fact, I found out several weeks into bringing and playing the games, one kid's parents went on a tirade to her principal that she dared allowed their child to "cast lots".

Needless to say, I never brought my copy of the "D&D 3rd Edition Starter Set"...

There are several kid friendly games out there, several of which I have found on the shelves of the local bookstore. Here's a list that may get you started.

FLUXX, http://wunderland.com/LooneyLabs/Fluxx/Default.html, is probably one of my favorite all time card games. The beauty of it is in it's simplicity. I've had kids who can't read and write play this game and still beat the pants off of adults. There is even a friendlier version called "Family Fluxx" which is really good for pre-schoolers. NOTE: Stoner-Fluxx, for obvious reasons, is not "kid friendly"!!

Dino-Hunt, http://www.sjgames.com/dinohunt/, is a wonderful and educational time-traveling card game. Their are plenty of expansion sets available at Warehouse23, but the core set is now out-of-print. PM me and I can call around to some people I know who work for the manufacturer and see if they have an extra set that they wouldn't mind relinquishing. Also take the time to peruse the site. There are some resources for educators at that site as well.

Marvel Heroscape, http://www.hasbro.com/games/kid-games/heroscape/default.cfm?page=Marvel. What kid can't say no to playing Spider-Man, Wolverine, and The Hulk!? This is a very easy to learn game and I've played this with many young kids at conventions and in-store demos. A word of WARNING, this game has a lot of pieces, 40 pieces just for the board, and the set up time can take a while. But all the kinds LOVE building the board!

Lord of the Fries, http://www.cheapass.com/products/cardgames/cag526.html. What happens when a bunch of zombies take over a fast food restaurant? This game lets you find out. There is a new 3rd edition to be released in April through Steve Jackson Games.

Settlers of Catan, http://www.mayfairgames.com/, is a classic board game of building and trading. There is even a section of the site for educators. Just try your best to stifle a giggle when a kid screams out, "I've got Wood for Sheep!"

You also might want to try http://www.boardgamegeek.com. They have a ton of games listed and most of them carry some sort of review.

And if you are going to order anything from SJ Games/Warehouse23, let me know beforehand. I might be able to get you some sort of discount.

[Filippo Lippi]

Better to keep your hands on the kids, as much as possible...



Are you sure that's good advice?

[Jimbo07]

Are you sure that's good advice?

You tryin' to be funny?

;)

ETA: Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply anything by using the word hands. I meant that kids can enjoy the positive aspects of being in out-of-home social facilities longer, if their parents feel comfortable letting them go. It's sort-of like the home schooling vs. public schooling debate.

[Filippo Lippi]

Just trying.

[volatile]

I second the Catan recommendation, and add:

- Carcasonne
- Puerto Rico
- Power Grid
- Caylus
- El Grande
- Ticket to Ride
- Tigris and Euphrates
- Munchkin

Some of these are better for older kids, but I'm sure yours will find them fun too. Lots of critical thinking, maths, strategy, pattern recognition, resource management and the occasional bit of ruthless back-stabbing!

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Two options: replace D&D sessions with (pre-d20) Call of Cthulhu sessions
or


Start playing Shadowrun (pre-d20). One round of combat will take an entire day-care session and the parents will think they are working on math homework.

[JFrankA]

Paladins Suck, Chaotic Evil FTW


Hey!!!! I loved the Paladin class in D&D. I was quite good, too.

.....but now that I'm older, I'm playing World of Warcraft, and I'm playing a Rogue.....


....go figure.



:D

[TheDoLittle]

I second the Catan recommendation, and add:

- Carcasonne
- Puerto Rico
- Power Grid
- Caylus
- El Grande
- Ticket to Ride
- Tigris and Euphrates
- Munchkin

Some of these are better for older kids, but I'm sure yours will find them fun too. Lots of critical thinking, maths, strategy, pattern recognition, resource management and the occasional bit of ruthless back-stabbing!

I completely forgot to mention Carcasonne! I finally snagged a copy of that game over the holidays.

Ticket to Ride is also a wonderful one!

The classic Munchkin might be considered "too D&D", but the variants (i.e. "Star Munchkin", "Munchkin-Fu", "The Good, The Bad, and The Munchkin") might be right up their ally. There's also the ever popular "Munchkin D20", for those who love pen&paper D&D, but want to "encourage dissent" within your own party.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Hey!!!! I loved the Paladin class in D&D. I was quite good, too.

.....but now that I'm older, I'm playing World of Warcraft, and I'm playing a Rogue.....


....go figure.



:D
Want to have a lot of fun playing a Pally? Instead of going the King Arthur & KotRT route, or the pompous self-righteous route; go for the fanatical Spanish Inquisition route. Your group-mates will fear you, even if you are lawful-good.

[Kochanski]

A few more kid friendly games:
Killer Bunnies (and Kinder Bunnies for the really young kids)
Kung Fu Fighting
Apples to Apples
Tiki Mountain

[Marquis de Carabas]

I recommend Pokethulhu (http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/pokethulhu.htm).

[Fnord]

If you wanted to move off of D&D, there are a host of other role playing systems out there that the kids may like. I'm currently playing a sci-fi game in the GURPS system where we're interstellar merchants with a planetary mafia on our tail and mysterious crystalline aliens roaming about. Not your typical dungeon crawl, but it's still a load of fun...
GURPS Traveller, perhaps?

Are you using my "Syndicate (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=13226)" rules from the Traveller COTI File Library? I'm known as Keklas Rekobah over there, btw.

Zombiebex: If you can get your hands on the first three rule books of the Classic Traveller system (a.k.a. "LBBs 1, 2, & 3"), you can cover everything from character generation, to starship building and commerce, to basic world design, to combat. There is just enough math involved (especially in starship movement), to justify the game's educational value.

If your class is in the Anaheim area, and you need some help getting set up, please let me know.

[DmKrispin]

Maybe if you RPd it in a "what would Jeebus do/be" type mode
You would have to roll yourself a Paladin, and an even more nauseatingly sickly Goody goody one than most

Paladins Suck, Chaotic Evil FTW


Not even close. Chaotic Neutral all the way, baby. Then you get to do what you want. Bonus: You don't have to worry about Paladins slicing you up.

[Kilgore Trout]

My aunt and uncle are, well, nuts (there's no real good way of putting it) about their religious beliefs. They take Catholicism to a new (previous?) level. Anyway, among their ideas is no fantasy genre stuff at all. No Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, anything of that sort, period.

I'm not sure if it is, or was, a part of Catholic doctrine, but at least that idea is out there. And with that in mind, I'd also suggest a shift from D&D to something with a different setting. You might be able to talk to someone about how D&D itself doesn't lead to Satanism, but I don't think you'd get anywhere with someone that has a blanket stance on all things fantasy/magic.

[JFrankA]

Hey, if you REALLY want to mess up children a good game of "Paranoia" is excellent for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)


It's never too early to teach children to suspect absolutely EVERYTHING! :D

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Hey, if you REALLY want to mess up children a good game of "Paranoia" is excellent for that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia_(role-playing_game)


It's never too early to teach children to suspect absolutely EVERYTHING! :D
Please report to the nearest termination center immediately.

[ponderingturtle]

Toon might be a good game for them as well.

[NobbyNobbs]

I'll second Apples to Apples, Fluxx, and Settlers of Catan. And I'll add the suggestion of a card game called Once Upon a Time (at least, I think that's what it's called. Check with your game store.

Meanwhile, my 8-year old daughter has rolled up her first character. I'm going to have it framed.

It makes a parent so proud....




You should cast the mind bondage spell on the parents. It will make them buy you $200 worth of new D&D figures and manuals.


Sounds to me like she already suffers from Feeblemind.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Oh yes, Fluxx is teh awesom! Cranium is pretty good too, though I'd make sure to get the Jr. version for the kids otherwise some of the Hum-dingers and stuff they just won't know the melodies of.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Urge to rant.... RISING...!

During my entire 21 years as a gamer (both role-playing and miniature wargaming), I've had to put up with my share of the whole "D&D is satanic" BS. Even though I never played a game of D&D in my life--I always preferred sci-fi games like Star Frontiers and Traveller--it didn't matter. I was obviously a Satanist by association. Needless to say, this behavior on the part of the religious has done little to endear them to me. nor has it given me reason to respect them. When you whiz on my hobbies, you whiz on me. Therefore, I get to whiz on you.:mad:

What amazes is me just how supersticious the religious can sometimes be--I mean, besides the usual bullcrap about God, Heaven, miracles, etc.. The sort like this woman actually BELIEVES that black magic is real and somehow that you can actually cast curses and hexes in role-playing games rules! Take our old "friend" Jack Chick (http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp)for instance:

Another contention, often shared with me in email, is that there is nothing like real magic in the game. People who say that evidently have a very limited understanding of magic. Any serious sorcerer will tell you that magic can be as baroque or as simple as the magician him- or herself wishes.


Folk magic is usually pretty simple and rustic. Ceremonial magic can be very "high church" with robes, incense and elaborate rites that can take weeks to complete. Witchcraft is somewhere in the middle, depending on the tradition you are working in. Finally, true hermetic magic involves little more than the human mind....


...Now, admittedly, few people who play D&D actually intend to do magic when they play. But I knew some who did, and even today I have corresponded with people who were gamers and also active magicians on the "inner planes." If you are a gamer, you might be playing with such an individual.
Sigh... I think the inanity of Chick and his fellow fundies speaks for itself.:(

I can't really tell you what to do about this, zombiebex. If I know anything about the tyranny that is "customer service," you'll have to give up your games to placate this Jebus-freak cow. In your boss' mind, tis better to spoil the fun of some than to lose one cent in revenue due to an angry customer... no matter how delusional and vindictive they truly are. It's moments like that when I could almost hate capitalism.

The only thing I could recommend is perhaps setting up a Junior Role Player's Group. Talk to the hopefully sympathetic parents of your current crop of players and set up a time and place to met where you can continue your fun without rising the ire of Bible-humping soccer moms. (Who I find can be more overbearing and overprotective than regular soccer moms. The imagined fear for well being their spawn is amplified by their religiousity.)

As Arkan pointed out, it could be worse. You could have been caught playing Call of Cthulhu. (Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!) Despite D&D's diabolical reputation, I find it's actually pretty weak tea with it's generic, Tolkien rip-off setting. If you want a fantasy rpg that will really send the fundies into a seizure of indignant zeal, try one of the many incarnations of Empire Of The Petal Throne. (http://www.tekumel.com) Besides the usual swords and sorcery, the setting features public nudity, unrepressed sexuality and polygamy, recreational drug use, religious-based prostitution, and even some of the "good" gods the PCs can worship require the occasional human sacrifice!

It's blasphemous! It's obscene! I highly recommend it! :D

[zombiebex]

Thanks for all the suggestions, gang.

Today, alas, was a hectic day and I didn't get a chance to snag the boss lady.

And as much as I'd like to really get the kids into all the aspects of the game rather than the simplistic way we've been at it, I don't have the time to sit with them and focus on a real campaign. This is about six boys in a group of thirty, and I am always up and running across the room to handle a fight/injury/mess/snack/parent every five minutes or so. Meh.

Also, it's been so damn long since I've played myself, I've forgotten a lot of the intricacies of the game.

I'll look into these games, definitely. GURPS is a great idea, I have that one and the kids might enjoy coming up with a setting of their own, (I predict a Naruto-esque setting.) and I also have the LOTR RPG, some Vampire:TM that prooobably wouldn't be appropriate, along with d20 Modern. I'll have to fish through the library some more. I've been tempted to bring in my precious board game Talisman, but I would die if anything happened to that game, and I don't trust these little buggers with my good stuff.


As far as being an (GASP) atheist, I have been reading the God Delusion on my break lately... in a restaurant, not in the center. I also have my "I'm straight, not narrow" bumper sticker, so if any nutter parent were to watch me too closely... yeeeeah, I'm pretty much screwed.

[Oroborus]

Yeah who wants their kids to think and use imagination? Wouldn't want to give them the weapons to destroy the religion we're clutching so tightly to.

You could ask them how imaginary magic in those books is any differnt from the imaginary magic in the bible :D

Oh and kudos for you for introducing it to them.

[Dancing David]

They are threatened because they have blind faith.

In D&D there are imaginary gods and superpowers that people imagine to be real.

Hmmm...


The only difference is in D&D gods will answer your prayers when they are not busy turning you into an ashtray and the like.

[YourSpleen]

I went to Catholic school for all 13 years of my schooling life, and the only two times I was ever suspended were in grade 7 and 8, when I brought in a ouija board and played D&D at school, respectively.

Strangely, RPGs contributed greatly to my later-life atheism, because once you make up entire worlds, pantheons, backstories, metaplots, characters, and so on, you really develop a keen understanding of just how much pure mythology religion is, and that none of it is particularly special.

One of my favourite literary stories from the Bible is Jesus at Gethsemane, but early on I mentioned to my mother that I gave it the same real-world weight as I did the background story on my level 15 Fighter/Ninja.

Hey, I was friggin' 12. ;)

Interestingly, while D&D games were banned, they had no problem with us playing Car Wars, a post-apocalyptic setting that was basically Grand Theft Auto with far more vehicular mounted guns. :)

[Beerina]

They are threatened because they have blind faith.

In D&D there are imaginary gods and superpowers that people imagine to be real.

Hmmm...


The only difference is in D&D gods will answer your prayers when they are not busy turning you into an ashtray and the like.

Also, the real-world death rates for people following D&D are far less, in total and per capita, than that for followers of other religions.


For what it's worth.

[Fnord]

Here is a Wikipedia Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_tunnel_incident)on the danged fool idjit that started the whole "D&D == EVIL" issue.

It begins with "The steam tunnel incident refers not to a single event, but rather to a set of urban myths..."

[Mark A. Siefert]

Ahhh Car Wars! Many an afternoon was spent with friends blowing each other away at the Mudville autoduelling arena or chasing motor cycle gangs away from fortress towns. Great fun!

Then Steve Jackson Games bogged the whole game down with supplemental material (semis, trailers, helicopters, jet fighters, boats, hydrofoils, hovercraft, tanks...) until it became no fun anymore.

Then we discovered Battletech and many an afternoon was spent was spent was with friends, blowing each other away at the Solaris arena or defending cites from mercenary units. Great fun!

Until FASA started adding powergaming cheese like Star League-era technology and (worse) the Clans until it become no fun anymore.

I then tried Star Fleet Battles... that was always no fun unless you're an accountant who happens to like Star Trek space combat.

These days, I tend to stick to either rules that are less than 100 pages long and are confined to one book, or rules that have been out of print for decades.

[Fnord]

...As Arkan pointed out, it could be worse. You could have been caught playing Call of Cthulhu. (Ia! Ia! Cthulhu fhtagn!) Despite D&D's diabolical reputation, I find it's actually pretty weak tea with it's generic, Tolkien rip-off setting...

DM: Okay, so you unroll the scroll and cast "Read Languages." After the spell goes off, you determine that only one word is on the scroll, three times in succession. This is what it says.

[DM hands Player a slip of paper]

PLAYER: That's it?!! Just "Hastur Hastur Hastur"?!!

DM: BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!


Ah ... I miss the good old days.

[Yalius]

Please report to the nearest termination center immediately.

Citizen, knowledge of <Censored> is prohibited to someone of your security clearance. Please report to <Censored> for <Censored>.

The computer thanks you for your prompt attention to this <Censored>.

[patchbunny]

GURPS Traveller, perhaps?

Are you using my "Syndicate (http://www.travellerrpg.com/CotI/Discuss/showthread.php?t=13226)" rules from the Traveller COTI File Library? I'm known as Keklas Rekobah over there, btw.

Nope, we're using the Characters and campaigns modules for the basic set-up, along with Ultratech for futuristic information, but the rest of the campaign is all coming out of the GM's head. Works fairly well.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Citizen, knowledge of <Censored> is prohibited to someone of your security clearance. Please report to <Censored> for <Censored>.

The computer thanks you for your prompt attention to this <Censored>.
I'm SINless, you'll never find me you wageslave!

[Morrigan]

Years ago, my brothers (and eventually myself) used to play those Make Your Own Adventure games, by Steve Jackson, Ian Livingston and Joe Dever. I was especially fond of the Lonewolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Wolf_%28gamebooks%29)and Sorcery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorcery%21) adventures.

One day a close friend and neighbour of my brother borrowed the Sorcery books. His mother was a staunch Catholic. Nevermind that, way too kind: she was a crazy, uptight, uber-religious bitch (who allegedly beat her son, too, when he was little [whereas she did not even discipline her younger daughter] and then had him committed for a few months because he had "anger issues", where he came back more screwed up in the head than before... but I'm going off on a tangeant here) and even my mother, who rarely said anything unkind about anyone, didn't like her very much.

I'm going to let you guess what happened when she stumbled upon these dreaded, evil tomes of foul black magic. Yep, she tried to have her son cut contact with my brother, and complained to her husband that he was giving him "spellbooks" who'd teach him how to practice "witchcraft". Thankfully, the boy's father still had a shred of common sense, and just laughed it off and said, "dear, those are game books, for children!", so it didn't escalate.

But when my brother told me this anecdote years ago, I could not fathom how anyone could be so awfully irrational and deluded, let alone still believe in sorcery. I was sure that even the Pope could not be so Catholic.

Then I learned about the USA and people like Jack Chick and the mother in this story, and how my brother's friend's mother was not a single isolated nutcase but there were others like her... and a little part of me died. Alas!

[ceo_esq]

My aunt and uncle are, well, nuts (there's no real good way of putting it) about their religious beliefs. They take Catholicism to a new (previous?) level. Anyway, among their ideas is no fantasy genre stuff at all. No Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, anything of that sort, period.

I'm not sure if it is, or was, a part of Catholic doctrine, but at least that idea is out there.

It seems unlikely that there was ever any Catholic teaching about fantasy literature as such, especially when one considers not only the role of the fantastic in the Catholic literary tradition but also the role of Catholicism in the development of the fantasy genre. Think of the medieval allegories and chivalric romance literature. And the pope could hardly be more Catholic than Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings. Hopefully your aunt and uncle will eventually permit their horizons to be broadened.

[dirtywick]

It seems unlikely that there was ever any Catholic teaching about fantasy literature as such, especially when one considers not only the role of the fantastic in the Catholic literary tradition but also the role of Catholicism in the development of the fantasy genre. Think of the medieval allegories and chivalric romance literature. And the pope could hardly be more Catholic than Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings. Hopefully your aunt and uncle will eventually permit their horizons to be broadened.

Chronicles of Narnia is pretty much a "what if Jesus was a magical talking lion" story, and C.S. Lewis admits as much.

[NobbyNobbs]

These days, I tend to stick to either rules that are less than 100 pages long and are confined to one book, or rules that have been out of print for decades.

May I recommend Feng Shui? Very little crunchiness, lots of room for interpretation, and if played right, the players contribute to the story at least as much as the GM does.

I played a cab driver named Jack Burton. Sound familiar? Loads of fun.

[YourSpleen]

Funny thing about Car Wars, we were stupid kids when we were playing it and felt that keeping track of weight was no fun, so we didn't. You can imagine the hilarity that ensued, especially when I introduced the "Rolling Death" 18-wheeler. That thing had more cupolas on it than a golf ball. ;)

The other most embarrassing RPG moment of my youth (in my defense, I started playing Basic Set D&D when I was 8) was reading that it took 10 minutes of time to search a room properly. So, yes, we waited ten minutes in REAL TIME. We did this six times before I decided it ignore that rule. But it remains a precious gem of my stupid youth. ;)

ETA: I remember there were several Net supplements making D&D Christian friendly, written by Christian gamers, mostly by eliminating the magic system and bumping up the clerical system. I seem to recall they found Dragonlance the least offensive official setting around the time.

[kmortis]

DM: Okay, so you unroll the scroll and cast "Read Languages." After the spell goes off, you determine that only one word is on the scroll, three times in succession. This is what it says.

[DM hands Player a slip of paper]

PLAYER: That's it?!! Just "Hastur Hastur Hastur"?!!

DM: BWAH-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!


Ah ... I miss the good old days.
And who could forget the classic
Player: I'm picking up the lantern.

DM: Ok, well roll on the "Pick up lanterns" table, at a -3 as you've never seen this kind before and might grab the wrong bit

P:Uh...ok. I got a 6.

DM: You grab the blazing hot mantle and burn yourself. Take **rolls 1d8** 4 HP damage.

If you REALLY want to get gaming kicked out, try HoL. It's claimer states clearly that it WILL make you worship Satan...and sell drugs dressed as a nun.

Hey, Marquis, just how much HoL have you played?

[Polaris]

:D

It is horrible the way the tail wags the dog in these circumstances. Those that get wound up about this sort of thing do go through a lot of fear and angst though - it might not be rational but to them superstition is as real as a real thing that has been down to the shops for an extra packet of real.

Breach of Membership Agreement removed.

DO NOT ADVOCATE VIOLENCE. Your membership agreement clearly states 'Advocacy of suicide or of violence to others: If you tell someone to kill or harm themselves, or to harm someone else, you will be suspended or banned without prior warning. Example: "Go kill yourself."' Forwarded to admins for review.

D&D is indeed a great way to get kids to become creative, increase team work and to do some pretty complex arithmetic. It all comes down to how much pull this mother has. You need to find where your boss stands and flow with it, unfortunately.

And they'll have plenty of time seeing as they won't be dating, and all.

[Ryokan]

Quoted breach of Membership Agreement removed.

I don't think you quite understand how reproduction works.

And they'll have plenty of time seeing as they won't be dating, and all.

That may have been true way back, but these days we have gamer girls.

Gamer girls <3

[Madalch]

I don't think you quite understand how reproduction works.
If she doesn't survive, she won't reproduce. What's hard to understand about that?

[JWideman]

Cast Magic Missile and attack the darkness!

[Ryokan]

If she doesn't survive, she won't reproduce. What's hard to understand about that?

Sorry, I misread. Apparently, it's I who don't know how these things work.

[kmortis]

Sorry, I misread. Apparently, it's I who don't know how these things work.

Failed your INT roll again, eh?

[Beerina]

I went to Catholic school for all 13 years of my schooling life, and the only two times I was ever suspended were in grade 7 and 8, when I brought in a ouija board and played D&D at school, respectively.

It's interesting to note that Christians don't like Ouija boards not because they're junk, but because they're real things that contact the underworld, which, as we all know, is a real, but evil and wrong, thing to do.

[orpheus]

I've no advice. I just wanted to say that I find this so sad. I'm old enough to remember when Gygax first came out with D&D. D&D sessins with other kids - many of whom were antagonists on the playground - are some of my fondest memories of those years. And I remember being thrilled - even then I was aware of it - to find a game that was open-ended; that challenged me to think.

[joobz]

you could always introduce the kids to text based adventure computer games

"You Find Yeself in Yon Dungeon. Ye see a SCROLL. Behind SCROLL is a FLASK. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH and DENNIS."

[ThatSoundAgain]

Years ago, my brothers (and eventually myself) used to play those Make Your Own Adventure games, by Steve Jackson, Ian Livingston and Joe Dever. I was especially fond of the Lonewolf (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_Wolf_%28gamebooks%29)and Sorcery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorcery%21) adventures.

Hah, me too! Interestingly, that's a different Steve Jackson than the one of SJG fame. Instead, he was co-founder of Games Workshop.

Zombiebex, it's a shame that this should get in the way of a fun and educational experience. While I can see the points about removing the magic / fantasy elements from the games if that's what's bothering this parent, a more modern setting would irk me if the game is still combat-centered, like very simplified RP gaming often is. It seems somehow safer or more removed to be playing in a fantasy / fairytale setting.

Another good card game, even though it may be too disorganised for your purposes, is Set ("the family game of visual perception"). To the outsider it seems entirely like the people playing are putting on an elaborate prank, since the sets of three that are claimed from the twelve face-up cards on the table are completely dissimilar. Yet, once you get it, you can train yourself to see them rapidly. Great fun!

Oh, and ETA: "GET YE FLASK↵"

[arthwollipot]

As a long-term roleplayer (I'm about to start up a new game soon) I suggest that you cruise over to http://www.theescapist.com/ and http://www.carpga.org/ for some real information to give to the poor deluded parents of this poor child.

ETA: sorry, that second link doesn't work. I'll look it up when I get home.

[DmKrispin]

you could always introduce the kids to text based adventure computer games

"You Find Yeself in Yon Dungeon. Ye see a SCROLL. Behind SCROLL is a FLASK. Obvious exits are NORTH, SOUTH and DENNIS."

"It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a Grue."

[Polaris]

That may have been true way back, but these days we have gamer girls.

Gamer girls <3

I'm old.

Now that you mention it I do know a very fetching Puerto Ricana who is into World of Warcraft to the detriment of every other facet of her life.

[saizai]

Clearly, you should get out the Chick tract parodies.

[arthwollipot]

As a long-term roleplayer (I'm about to start up a new game soon) I suggest that you cruise over to http://www.theescapist.com/ and http://www.carpga.org/ for some real information to give to the poor deluded parents of this poor child.

ETA: sorry, that second link doesn't work. I'll look it up when I get home.It's http://www.car-pga.org/.

Actually, one of my favourite pages from that first site is where the author attempts to prove that D&D spells aren't real[/i] by trying to actually cast them. It's done in humour, of course, but it does show that thinking that D&D spells can be used in the real world is ridiculous.

Currently The Escapist has quite a bit more information on it than the CAR-PGa. Obviously, since it's been going for ten years longer. I'm also on his [URL="http://www.theescapist.com/tellme/tmayc067.htm"]Tell me about your character (http://www.theescapist.com/random011102.htm) page. :D

Here's a simple two-page flyer (http://www.theescapist.com/facts-and-fictions-about-RPGs.pdf) that can be handed to concerned parents, and here's a basic FAQ about roleplaying games (http://www.theescapist.com/basic_gaming_faq.htm).

[Jackalgirl]

I think this is a good solution.
Move away from the evil and potentially dark influence of D&D to something more wholesome like call of cthulhu.

ha ha ha...ha ha HA..HA HA HA BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!! HAH HAH HAH----

--sorry. Failed my sanity check there for a sec.

Edited to add: I want to put in my props to Cheapass Games (http://www.cheapass.com) (mentioned earlier). I imagine that kids would have a good time with "Devil Bunny Needs a Ham" -- no, wait, with that title, it won't do. How about "Save Dr. Lucky"? It's a twist on a twist of "Clue" -- the original game was "Kill Dr. Lucky", in which instead of trying to find out who killed Dr. Lucky with the candlestick in the library, you're actually trying to kill Dr. Lucky with the candlestick in the library (probably also not a good choice). But anyway, "Save Dr. Lucky" is a game in which you're playing characters on the Titanic and you're trying to save the namesake. After a few turns, levels of the board disappear (they "sink"). It's fun. They have a variety of inexpensive and very silly games that would probably appeal to kids and do not involve elements that will swallow your soul.

Edited again to add: Zombiex, I like what you've done with the idea that defeating a monster doesn't kill it, but makes it your pet. That's pretty cool. Kind of a "pokemon" angle.

[JFrankA]

Here is the Jack Chick tract, "Dark Dungeon", but reviewed page-by-page by someone who has a grip on reality...

http://hexfiles.multiservers.com/soapbox/tract/ddungeon.htm

Enjoy!

[Garrette]

ha ha ha...ha ha HA..HA HA HA BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH HAH!! HAH HAH HAH----

--sorry. Failed my sanity check there for a sec.

Edited to add: I want to put in my props to Cheapass Games (http://www.cheapass.com) (mentioned earlier). I imagine that kids would have a good time with "Devil Bunny Needs a Ham" -- no, wait, with that title, it won't do. How about "Save Dr. Lucky"? It's a twist on a twist of "Clue" -- the original game was "Kill Dr. Lucky", in which instead of trying to find out who killed Dr. Lucky with the candlestick in the library, you're actually trying to kill Dr. Lucky with the candlestick in the library (probably also not a good choice). But anyway, "Save Dr. Lucky" is a game in which you're playing characters on the Titanic and you're trying to save the namesake. After a few turns, levels of the board disappear (they "sink"). It's fun. They have a variety of inexpensive and very silly games that would probably appeal to kids and do not involve elements that will swallow your soul.

Edited again to add: Zombiex, I like what you've done with the idea that defeating a monster doesn't kill it, but makes it your pet. That's pretty cool. Kind of a "pokemon" angle.I second this. We've since lost them, but we used to have several CheapAss Games, and the kids loved them all. The first they played, and their all-time favorite, was "Devil Bunny Needs a Ham." Giggles didn't stop.

"Kill Dr. Lucky" surpasses "Save Dr. Lucky."

"Before I Kill You, Mr. Bond" is also fun.

Not quite as fun as the others mentioned, but still worth playing is "The Great Brain Robbery." Zombies on a train. In the Old West. Using cheese when they can't find brains. To see who ends up the smartest. Brilliant stuff.

[TheDoLittle]

These days, I tend to stick to either rules that are less than 100 pages long and are confined to one book, or rules that have been out of print for decades.

Star Wars Miniatures Battles (no, Star Wars Miniatures from WOTC... but the original minis game from West End Games)
Two Hour Wargames (any title, but I'm partial to Chain Reaction)
Gutshot
DBx (which I don't play often because I only have 15mm Saracen and French Crusader armies)
Silent Death
Play-Doh Tech

...and I could probably think of a few others!

[TheDoLittle]

And they'll have plenty of time seeing as they won't be dating, and all.
That may have been true way back, but these days we have gamer girls.
Gamer girls <3


I have noticed a sharp upswing in the past 10 years of female gamers, and quite a few of them are second and third generation gamers. When I started the gamer hobby back in '83, I would hit the local gaming conventions and you could count on one had the amount of females I saw that entire weekend at the con. Nowadays, they almost equal and at a few tables, they outnumber the men.

[TheDoLittle]

Here is the Jack Chick tract, "Dark Dungeon", but reviewed page-by-page by someone who has a grip on reality...

http://hexfiles.multiservers.com/soapbox/tract/ddungeon.htm

Enjoy!


You forgot to post the ever popular "Mystery Science Theatre 3000: The Dark Dungeons" episode!

http://www.humpin.org/mst3kdd/

[Nogbad]

I have noticed a sharp upswing in the past 10 years of female gamers, and quite a few of them are second and third generation gamers. When I started the gamer hobby back in '83, I would hit the local gaming conventions and you could count on one had the amount of females I saw that entire weekend at the con. Nowadays, they almost equal and at a few tables, they outnumber the men.

My son is a member of his university gamers club and I made a joke about it being a tad all male geeky and he somewhat tartly informed me that many of their members were girls :boggled:

I thought girl gamer was an oxymoron but times appear to have changed.

[TheDoLittle]

I thought girl gamer was an oxymoron but times appear to have changed.


When my wife and I first started darting, it was very close to one of the bigger gaming cons in Texas. I tried telling her she would have a good time and make some new friends. She hesitated and hemmed and hawed,
but she did eventually go and she had a blast.

You see, I'm an old school mini wargamer. The kind who will spend a ton of money on miniatures that collect more dust than paint (and lately a case of lead rot on some old Ral Partha Battletech minis). She had a hard time understanding the idea of rummaging through boxes for old miniatures, basing, priming, painting, packing up your tackle box with minis, driving across town to a dark and dank hole-in-wall game store who is owned and operated by a guy who makes Ozzy Osborne look a straight and upright citizen, doing math, rolling dice, flipping through books, arguing with the people across the table about how much cover a tree gives a figure, unpacking your tackle box in a way that makes the people across the table "ooh" and "ahh", how a listerene bottle with a few bits of sprue and a pipe cleaner would make an awesome sci-fi tank, and why everyone pointed and giggled when a LARPer walked past.

She now is a MiB for Steve Jackson Games and can quote from the entire line of Munchkin cards. Last month she went all fangirl on a guy who badmouthed Alan Tudyk in a movie review.

<sniff!> I'm so proud of my girl!

[Jimbo07]

Hah, me too! Interestingly, that's a different Steve Jackson than the one of SJG fame. Instead, he was co-founder of Games Workshop.

You serious? I thought they were the same guy. The timing seemed to be appropriate...

:confused:

[TheDoLittle]

double-post

[A Christian Sceptic]

Here is the Jack Chick tract, "Dark Dungeon", but reviewed page-by-page by someone who has a grip on reality...

http://hexfiles.multiservers.com/soapbox/tract/ddungeon.htm

Enjoy!

haha. That was funny.

Awe yes - I remember fondly (not!) when I was a kid and He-Man Hysteria swept the nation (or at least my in-laws). I sure missed those satanic toys! ;)

I also miss listening to the talk in the evenings about the dangers of Sci-Fi and Fantasy movies! We know those two genre's are way more violent, sexual, and evil then good old-fashioned and respectable Westerns!

[Fnord]

[Duplicate Post]

[Fnord]

Here is the Jack Chick tract, "Dark Dungeon"...

I used to hand out that very tract to my AD&D players. It was always good for a laugh!

[dudalb]

I play Civil war Mineatures using the "Johnny Reb" rules myself.
But FSM, I played a LOT of D and D in my youth.
ANybody remember that great comedy routing they did on D and D.It started out with a melodramatic voice saying how they were going to expose the Satanic evil behind D and D,and what followed is a dead on,drop dead funny, version of a typical D and D session.
Great stuff,it is available on one of Dr Demento's CD sets.

[Leicontis]

Re: gamer girls - I'm married to one, and almost every campaign I've been in has had a higher proportion of females than the population from which the players were drawn (i.e. an engineering school, predominantly male).

As far as the OP - I heard of a case where a televangelist kept bashing D&D as satanic until a gamer brought him a rulebook (or several, I'm not sure) and challenged the preacher to find anything promoting satanism, demon worship, witchcraft, etc, and promised to eat any page containing such. The intact books were, after a bit of reading, handed back to the hungry gamer with an apology. Not sure if it's true or an urban legend, but nice if true.

In a similar vein, bring the rulebooks from the game you're running (and sets of rulebooks from whatever alternate RPG you're considering) and have the crazy lady look through them. Even better - have your boss look through them. Offer to let the boss and/or crazy lady sit in on a session, if possible. Also, point out that crazy lady's spawn is not involved in the gaming in any way, so what's her beef?

[TheDoLittle]

I play Civil War Miniatures using the "Johnny Reb" rules myself.

Now there's a game I haven't played since the 20th century! Didn't they just re-release the rules?

ANybody remember that great comedy routing they did on D and D.It started out with a melodramatic voice saying how they were going to expose the Satanic evil behind D and D,and what followed is a dead on,drop dead funny, version of a typical D and D session.
Great stuff,it is available on one of Dr Demento's CD sets.


The Dead Alewives, and it's on Demento's 30th Anniversary set.

Someone also did a pretty bang on 8-bit version on YouTube:
XHdXG2gV01k

[Mark A. Siefert]

That may have been true way back, but these days we have gamer girls.


Gamer girls? What are these "gamer girls" you speak of?

Seriously, my local gamer community is pretty much a sausage-fest. I'd kill to find a single (not to mention good looking) female who was into gaming. No such luck.

Of course, I'd probably need a +3 battle ax to fight off the other single male gamers...

...better make that a +5 battle ax.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Star Wars Miniatures Battles (no, Star Wars Miniatures from WOTC... but the original minis game from West End Games)
Two Hour Wargames (any title, but I'm partial to Chain Reaction)
Gutshot
DBx (which I don't play often because I only have 15mm Saracen and French Crusader armies)
Silent Death
Play-Doh Tech!

Currently I'm into:
Pireme's Hammer's Slammers
Stargrunt II
Full Thrust
Heavy Gear Blitz
Empire Of The Petal Throne
Traveller
2300 AD

[Skeptic Guy]

It's interesting to note that Christians don't like Ouija boards not because they're junk, but because they're real things that contact the underworld, which, as we all know, is a real, but evil and wrong, thing to do.

You need to go visit the "Ghost Hunters" forum. They have a couple of threads devoted to the "dangers" of playing around with Ouiji boards. I kid you not.

[Fnord]

... my local gamer community is pretty much a sausage-fest. I'd kill to find a single (not to mention good looking) female who was into gaming. No such luck.

Of course, I'd probably need a +3 battle ax to fight off the other single male gamers...

...better make that a +5 battle ax.

Not really. In my experience, gamer guys suffer a -4 penalty to their INT and WIS stats whenever a female shows up, especially if her CHA stat matches or exceeds her dress size. However, the chances of a gamer girl having a CHA stat that matches or exceeds her dress size is the same as surviving a lightning attack while wearing plate armor, wielding a metal pole-arm, and standing in 2 feet of salt water.

:duck:

It can happen, but it isn't the way to bet.

[Ryokan]

I'll have you know I know plenty of hot gamer girls.

Shame they're all ten years young than me :(

[Madalch]

I'll have you know I know plenty of hot gamer girls.

Shame they're all ten years young than me

If you're my age, who cares?

Of course, if you're seventeen, that's a problem...

[SnuggleSmacks]

Not really. In my experience, gamer guys suffer a -4 penalty to their INT and WIS stats whenever a female shows up, especially if her CHA stat matches or exceeds her dress size. However, the chances of a gamer girl having a CHA stat that matches or exceeds her dress size is the same as surviving a lightning attack while wearing plate armor, wielding a metal pole-arm, and standing in 2 feet of salt water.

:duck:

It can happen, but it isn't the way to bet.

Hi...I'm a girl, a gamer, and wear a size 7. I'm also cute.

How much is that bet, and do I get a cut?

[Fnord]

Hi...I'm a girl, a gamer, and wear a size 7. I'm also cute.

How much is that bet, and do I get a cut?

By "cute" I assume that your CHA is 7 or greater? Average is 10 or 11, y'know, so if this is the case, then somewhere, some lucky Paladin just made his save vs. Lightning...

... twice!

[Madalch]

Hi...I'm a girl, a gamer, and wear a size 7. I'm also cute.

Allow me...

Evidence?

[SnuggleSmacks]

By "cute" I assume that your CHA is 7 or greater? Average is 10 or 11, y'know, so if this is the case, then somewhere, some lucky Paladin just made his save vs. Lightning...

Alas...47 more posts before I can put my Avatar where my mouth is and prove it. I'm 34 and still date 20-something geek boys. High IQ's turn me on, especially when paired with creativity and a snarky attitude.

But, back to the OP: Sadly, the right to play a game at a pre-school is unfortunately not something that seems worth losing your job over. Those narrow-minded, intellectually starved parents have a right to thier ignorance, and the passing of thier ignorance to thier child.

Be the bigger person. Speak to your boss, invite your boss to a game, and if possible, invite the offended parties to a game. If this doesn't work, switch to a different game immediately, voluntarily, and without complaint...but let the kids know that you are doing so because of a parental complaint by someone who has "odd notions" of what the game is about (make sure you look very puzzled as you say this)...no need to point fingers at the poor girl with the deranged parents, as that will only cause her harm, and no need to go into what those "odd notions" are...hopefully those children will complain to thier own parents.

At the very least, keeping a calm and agreeable attitude will show everyone involved that it is just a game, with no hidden agenda, and another game might do just as well.

[cj.23]

I write for Call of Cthulhu and Ars Magica. I'm also as my sig suggest a Christian. I'd be tempted to get the kids to play Demon the Fallen if you get any more complaints, but I'm not good with kids. Perhaps Kult? I do lack tact. Sod the parent - thats what unions are for, and the employer willsee the kids are learning and enjoying it?

Talking of which, I may have posted this before but hey, it was fun (originally posted on the Richard Dawkins forum by me after "Narnia makes kids theists comment"

I hereby propose a new organisation, DADD, short for Dawkinites Against Dungeons And Dragons. It has long been troubling my conscience that one of the industries in which I work, role playing games design, encourages theism, supernaturalism and belief in the occult and magical thinking.

In the "roleplaying game" Dungeons & Dragons (originally 1974 by TSR, today published by Wizards of the Coast) players, often young teens at a very vulnerable and impressionable age, take on the role of "wizards" and "clerics" (!!!) who perform magical acts by casting spells (despite the fact that no one has ever claimed Randi's millions and anyone who has ever read a book knows all parapsychology is bunk and part of an evil conspiracy of Jesuit controlled pseudo-scientists). The book positive encourages "worship" of these deities - many of which are actually based upon REAL deities whose followers have oppressed and persecuted atheists in the past! The infamous Deities & Demigods book contains for example stats for Zeus and Odin, and detailed description of polytheism, pantheism, and other religious practices. Players are expected to "roleplay" dedicated service to and worship of these deities, which in the game is actually OBJECTIVELY TRUE! and rewards the players character with experience points.


This seemingly fantastic and innocuous hobby has repeatedly been used in the past too attract teenagers from their natural interests in sex, drugs and rock n roll to a study of occultism as a way to rot their minds and lead them to magical thinking, and from there it is a short step to reading a well known Evangelical tract and being convinced of ones sinfulness and becoming a Theist! Church groups often encourage these roleplaying games, and there are even a number of explicitly Christian and Christian themed games out there.

Even such seemingly innocent entertainment's as White Wolf's Vampire, in which one plays a tragically hip angst ridden teenage vampire who gets "to kill people and take their blood" - all clearly harmless enough - has actually hidden within deep Christian overtones, with concepts of damnation, salvation (here cunningly disguised as Golconda) and objective morality. Even this most, on the surface, acceptable game has a hidden theistic/magical agenda - the Disciplines are clearly supernatural powers, irreconcilable with any logical naturalistic paradigm.

So what can the sensible atheist parent due to protect their child from this hideous threat? Firstly, take your copy of The God Delusion, and read it loudly to build the confidence to confront your child. Secondly, arm yourself with a big stick - teenagers CAN bite when roused. Thirdly, search their bedroom, and take and burn all this supernaturalist mind rotting theistic trojan horse stuff, in a big bonfire. And call all the other freethinking parents, and encourage them to do just the same.

Topics not directly associated with roleplaying games and often associated with roleplayers but possibly worthy of destruction are dice, drugs, drug paraphenalia, occult books, the works of Stephen J Gould, the Journal of European Parapsychology, BDSM gear, girls, hot water bottles, cats and Telly Tubby merchandise. Destroy it all! You may also want to ban your child from internet access to prevent them from going to such well known spawning sites of fundamentalist, Catholic and liberal theology as http://www.rpg.net (http://www.rpg.net/) !

If atheism is to survive, we must protect our children's minds from this terrible threat! Say no to God and the Supernatural today, and organise a Freethinkers bonfire for your neighbourhood!

ACT NOW BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE

This warning was brought to you (mainly as a parody of the Religious Right)
by CJ x

cj x

[cj.23]

You need to go visit the "Ghost Hunters" forum. They have a couple of threads devoted to the "dangers" of playing around with Ouiji boards. I kid you not.


There are real dangers. When I was writing The Mysteries Revised Edition for Ars Magica 5th ed (bringing this formly back on topic) I was "resident parapsychologist" at a well known British 'haunted' location. I organised a sceptics night there on rpg.net, and great fun it was. I also was witness to three inexplicable to me events, but that is another thread...

Anyway one night a group of middle aged ladies were messing around with a ouija board and table tipping when one of them freaked out. I wandered in to the darkened room to calm her, fell through the seance table ending up in a heap of splintered wood and the ouija board struck me on the neck. Painful :( Onanother occasion I was forced to call the police in a local graveyard when drunk ghost hunting teens turned up in their hundreds, and i got to recite the riot act (well the relevant clause of the Public Order Act while helping the churchwardens disperse them.) The local paper famously then included a line in its report about drunken teens "trying to contact the dead with iron bars and running amok with ouija boards."

I have a silly life... :D

cj x

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

Hi...I'm a girl, a gamer, and wear a size 7. I'm also cute.

How much is that bet, and do I get a cut?

Women have been becoming more prominent in many areas of entertainment that were predominantly men for many years; not only table-top gaming but also video games (http://www.fragdolls.com). I think the newest stereotype that the industry is dealing with is that all female gamers play things like Cooking Mama (http://www.gamespot.com/ds/puzzle/cookingmama/index.html?tag=result;title;0) and Animal Crossing (http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/rpg/animalcrossing/index.html?tag=result;title;1). And, while those are great games, it's still a level of sexism that is pervasive. IMHO, and IAAGD*, I think a large part of the rise of the female gamer can be laid at the feet of MMOs.

My US$0.02


*I Am A Game Developer

[cj.23]

Back in the 80's we had two female gamers in our group- one of whom was a fashion model a few years later, so presumably cute. My gaming groups are generally 50/50, though we have had a 6:1 female to male ratio in a Vampire game in the mid 90's. I do play in one all male group now though. I would estimate that 30% of UK tabletop roleplayers i have met are women. I've never played D&D much - maybe it's just my Cthulhu/Ars Magica/Unknown Armies/Traveller/Conspiracy X/ Heroquest/Pendragon/Heaven&Earth/Mage tastes are more acceptable to women than D20?


Currently running: Heaven & Earth, Ars Magica, Pendragon weekly. Least gaming I've done in years, only two nights and one sunday a week. :( Still busy writing for several RPG commissions so I guess i can claim its work.

cj x

[JFrankA]

As to girl gamers, does World of Warcraft count?

My girlfriend is the druid leader in her guild (the best guild on her server), has several toons and levels up quickly on all of them and can kick my butt from here to Stormwind.

....and yes, she's 13 years younger than me....


Damn I love that chick!

[Fnord]

I'm also a Christian - a Presbyterian Elder, in fact -and I've played AD&D since I lived in Lake Geneva, Wisconsin. That's almost 30 years.

All sexist jokes aside, the worst thing to ever happen in an AD&D game was when the DM described an encounter with a farm family. The mom was a raving wacko. Unfortunately (as we were to find out later), the events described mirrored an argument that the DM and his wife had had a few nights before.

The DM's wife was sitting across the table from me. She looked very uncomfortable, especially after we all determined that the farmer's wife was possessed, and we had to bring literally beat the demon out of her. The DM's wife served divorce papers on him soon thereafter.

My point is that there is no issue with AD&D, or with RPGs in general. The only real problems are those pre-existing issues that people bring into the game.

As for gamer-girls, I wish there were more. I sometimes get tired of all the macho posturing, both as characters and as rules-lawyers. There's something about having a lady present that inspires most men to be on their better behavior. But if a guy is going to be an even bigger Rule-10 type, then it is HE who is not worth having in the game.

It's only a game.

[kmortis]

Back in the 80's we had two female gamers in our group- one of whom was a fashion model a few years later, so presumably cute. My gaming groups are generally 50/50, though we have had a 6:1 female to male ratio in a Vampire game in the mid 90's. I do play in one all male group now though. I would estimate that 30% of UK tabletop roleplayers i have met are women. I've never played D&D much - maybe it's just my Cthulhu/Ars Magica/Unknown Armies/Traveller/Conspiracy X/ Heroquest/Pendragon/Heaven&Earth/Mage tastes are more acceptable to women than D20?


Currently running: Heaven & Earth, Ars Magica, Pendragon weekly. Least gaming I've done in years, only two nights and one sunday a week. :( Still busy writing for several RPG commissions so I guess i can claim its work.

cj x

Ok, since you've brought it up 17,000 times so far, Ars Magica rocks. It has to be my all-time favorite magic system, in particular, and game style, in general. It was the final nail in my D&D coffin. I've not seriously played a D&D game since Lion Rampart first put it out.

Of course, I 've not gamed at all in the last three years. A good group is hard to find.

[TheDoLittle]

Seriously, my local gamer community is pretty much a sausage-fest. I'd kill to find a single (not to mention good looking) female who was into gaming. No such luck.


There are always a lot of college aged girls at Owlcon this weekend. I'll save ya a few.

[cj.23]

Ok, since you've brought it up 17,000 times so far, Ars Magica rocks. It has to be my all-time favorite magic system, in particular, and game style, in general. It was the final nail in my D&D coffin. I've not seriously played a D&D game since Lion Rampart first put it out.

Of course, I 've not gamed at all in the last three years. A good group is hard to find.

My subliminal Ars Magica promotion is working? :) I organize the UK Ars convention, Grand Tribunal. Next one is August 16th -17th 2008, featuring line editor David Chart all the way from Japan and some of the US crowd. If you can get to the uK, we will help put you up. :) Always pleased to meet a fellow Ars gamer!

cj x

[Mark A. Siefert]

As to girl gamers, does World of Warcraft count?


I know this is going to sound weird, but... I HATE COMPUTER GAMES!

I want to use my own imagination when playing a RPG, not have it imagined for me by a damn machine.

[Arkan_Wolfshade]

As to girl gamers, does World of Warcraft count?

My girlfriend is the druid leader in her guild (the best guild on her server), has several toons and levels up quickly on all of them and can kick my butt from here to Stormwind.

....and yes, she's 13 years younger than me....


Damn I love that chick!

Yes. (see my previous comments on such)

RE Mark A. Siefert, I think the catch is, computer RPGs are about immersing yourself in a role, in an environment that doesn't require the... overhead of tabletop. There are RP servers which do have a full blown role-playing population and in which the game is nothing more than an automated GM. Granted, you don't have the complete sandbox freedom of tabletop, but it does have its advantages at times. I don't tend to view them as being "in the same ballpark", rather I see them as American Football and rugby; similar enough that they can hold appeal to the same person, but in different (yet similar) ways. *shrug*

[Fnord]

A set of polyhedral dice: $3.79
Pizza for five players: $40.00 plus tip.
A PHB, a DMG, and a MM: ~$120.00 (or less at a used book store)

The look on the paladin-player's face when he finds out that what he though was a +5 Holy Avenger is really a -5 "Curse of the Mummy Rot" Sword, and it has permanently grafted itself onto his paladin's hand: Priceless!

I'll always prefer tabletop RPGs.

[JFrankA]

Hey, I'm with you people. I love the tabletop too, but at 44 and 31, it's a little difficult finding players our age.... :)

I've had funny anedotes with both computer and tabletop. But clearly, tabletop RGP's does lead to better stories. Hey, how can a computer RGP game stroy beat the tabletop RGP story about a quest to destroy a unique large magical gem by having it stomped by the foot of a humble ant...... :D

[Skeptic Guy]

There are real dangers. When I was writing The Mysteries Revised Edition for Ars Magica 5th ed (bringing this formly back on topic) I was "resident parapsychologist" at a well known British 'haunted' location. I organised a sceptics night there on rpg.net, and great fun it was. I also was witness to three inexplicable to me events, but that is another thread...

Anyway one night a group of middle aged ladies were messing around with a ouija board and table tipping when one of them freaked out. I wandered in to the darkened room to calm her, fell through the seance table ending up in a heap of splintered wood and the ouija board struck me on the neck. Painful :( Onanother occasion I was forced to call the police in a local graveyard when drunk ghost hunting teens turned up in their hundreds, and i got to recite the riot act (well the relevant clause of the Public Order Act while helping the churchwardens disperse them.) The local paper famously then included a line in its report about drunken teens "trying to contact the dead with iron bars and running amok with ouija boards."

I have a silly life... :D

cj x

Bolding mine. I'm not sure that a 3 DEX score constitutes a supernatural Ouji experience but back to the OP. ;)

[SnuggleSmacks]

Allow me...

Evidence?

At last, I am able to offer the evidence you seek. See avatar for further information.

[Mark A. Siefert]

At last, I am able to offer the evidence you seek. See avatar for further information.

Female.... check.... cute... EXTREMELY....

Now all you need to do is provide us with evidence you're a gamer. ;)

[Normal Dude]

Haven't played it in seven years, but I used to DM for 2nd edition and GM for Star Wars. I alos liked Paranoia.


I would get back into it, but I am way too afraid my grades would drop.

ETA: Oh yeah almost forgot: Hail Satan!!!1(limx->0((sin(x)/x)))

[SnuggleSmacks]

Female.... check.... cute... EXTREMELY....

Now all you need to do is provide us with evidence you're a gamer. ;)

Errr...my human/warrior character, Xo, seduced a Satyr and had a Half-Satyr child. She's such a slut.

ETA: Xo also has an immovable stick. She has found some very interesting uses for it.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Errr...my human/warrior character, Xo, seduced a Satyr and had a Half-Satyr child. She's such a slut.

ETA: Xo also has an immovable stick. She has found some very interesting uses for it.

Yup! You're a gamer! Now, tell me MORE about yourself... I mean, your current campaign.

For about 4 years, I played an Imperial Marine in my Traveller 20 campaign. He started out as but a mere sergeant posted on a Q-ship crewed largely by Imperial Navy misfits, mercenaries, and prisoners. During the course of the campaign, he fought off Zhodani pirates and a mutiny, he fell in love with one of the Mercs, got married, fought in an epic war to save a minor race targeted for genocide, was commisioned, knighted, and had a few kids. I eventually retired the character, then moved on to play his great-grandson in a later campaign that took place in the "New Era."

[SnuggleSmacks]

Actually I'm not currently playing. The GM was my lover until two months ago when I finally figured out that he is a compulsive liar. He tells people he's dying of pancreatic cancer. He's been dying for quite a few years. Now I avoid being in his presence.

Shame, though...my character for the new campaign was going to be a changeling druid with a pet badger. :mad:

[arthwollipot]

My new character (in a game that hasn't actually started yet...) is an anti-necromancer. A follower of the goddess of death, but sworn a sacred vow to destroy necromancers and ensure that dead people actually stay dead.

[Ryokan]

Actually I'm not currently playing. The GM was my lover until two months ago when I finally figured out that he is a compulsive liar. He tells people he's dying of pancreatic cancer. He's been dying for quite a few years. Now I avoid being in his presence.

Shame, though...my character for the new campaign was going to be a changeling druid with a pet badger. :mad:

Ever thought of moving to Norway? ^^

[Jackalgirl]

My new character (in a game that hasn't actually started yet...) is an anti-necromancer. A follower of the goddess of death, but sworn a sacred vow to destroy necromancers and ensure that dead people actually stay dead.

Whoooooooooooo, look out, John Edward!

(I like your character idea a lot. : ) )

[arthwollipot]

Whoooooooooooo, look out, John Edward!

(I like your character idea a lot. : ) )Yes, I'm looking forward to playing this game. :)

[Rika]

I think my most "Satanic" character would have had to been one of my main characters (a tigergirl divine champion of Selune). While she was a succubi. (Selune is the CG goddess of the moon).

... then again. I tend to play relatively normal characters (and almost purely D&D or Mutants and Masterminds (rarely Exalted))

But eh. Purposely taking tropes and stereotypes than playing the opposite is fun.

[Mark A. Siefert]

My new character (in a game that hasn't actually started yet...) is an anti-necromancer. A follower of the goddess of death, but sworn a sacred vow to destroy necromancers and ensure that dead people actually stay dead.

Ahhhh... A worshiper of either Lord Belkhánu or Lord Qón (http://www.tekumel.com/world_gods05.html)... or you would be if you played Empire Of The Petal Throne.

[arthwollipot]

Ahhhh... A worshiper of either Lord Belkhánu or Lord Qón (http://www.tekumel.com/world_gods05.html)... or you would be if you played Empire Of The Petal Throne.No, nothing so imaginitive. Wee Jas, straight out of the PH. The DM's never done D&D before, although he is the best Rolemaster and Call of Cthulhu GM I've ever played with.

[TheDoLittle]

Errr...my human/warrior character, Xo, seduced a Satyr and had a Half-Satyr child. She's such a slut.

ETA: Xo also has an immovable stick. She has found some very interesting uses for it.


Screw that... I just wanna see your Natural 20's!!

[arthwollipot]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_433247b0efc1c14b3.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=10757)

[Mark A. Siefert]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_433247b0efc1c14b3.jpg


Sigh... Take your average male, put him a home-made Star Trek outfit, give him a fist full of RPG dice, and fill his head with science fiction and fantasy trivia and you have the geeky fan boy! A laughing stock who obviously never had sex and and never will.

Take that same male, put him in a football jersey, paint him up with the colors of the home team, and fill his head with sports statistics and you have the All American sports fan! Symbol of machismo and sexual prowess.

There is no justice in this universe.

[SnuggleSmacks]

Wow. You guys need to live here. The gaming community in the Triad area of NC is infamous for playing musical beds and throwing clothing-optional BDSM parties. Unless you are grossly obese and don't have the personality to make up for it, you are going to get laid!!

[Mark A. Siefert]

Wow. You guys need to live here. The gaming community in the Triad area of NC is infamous for playing musical beds and throwing clothing-optional BDSM parties. Unless you are grossly obese and don't have the personality to make up for it, you are going to get laid!! (Emphasis Mine)

Well, I'm going to die a "technical" virgin! I'm fatter than hell and I am bipolar to boot.

Where did I put that suicide note?

[SnuggleSmacks]

Lol...wow. I certainly didn't mean it that way. If what you say is true, then the odds are still higher for you to get a girl in my circle...we tend to be a more accepting bunch. But we are also a more blatantly honest (even tactless) bunch.

[Mark A. Siefert]

Lol...wow. I certainly didn't mean it that way. If what you say is true, then the odds are still higher for you to get a girl in my circle...we tend to be a more accepting bunch.

Well, I'm told I'm needlessly self-depreciating, so I might be exaggerating a bit. My mom's side of the family are made up of real porkers and my skinny-as-a-rail father constantly reminds me (often times not too kindly) about my rotund physique. If you click on my avatar you should see a recent (not to mention, incredibly gleepy) photo. I'll let you judge.

But we are also a more blatantly honest (even tactless) bunch.

I think I could take it. My gaming group is the same way. A couple of years back, when it was suggested we order out from a regional sub restaurant chain called "Cousins." I innocently replied, "I could do Cousins tonight." The incest jokes haven't stopped since.

[arthwollipot]

Wow. You guys need to live here. The gaming community in the Triad area of NC is infamous for playing musical beds and throwing clothing-optional BDSM parties. Unless you are grossly obese and don't have the personality to make up for it, you are going to get laid!!Alas, I feel that even your group would be insufficient to break my dry spell.

[SnuggleSmacks]

If you click on my avatar you should see a recent (not to mention, incredibly gleepy) photo. I'll let you judge.

Dude, when I say obese, I'm talking 350 lbs. You so do not qualify! Only a rare few of the chics are into the "Jack the Pumpkin King" look. But I have to warn you, only a few of the girls have that waif-thin look themselves. I'm probably second thinnest, at 135 lbs and 5'3". Definitely not skin and bones. At least my 10 extra pounds are in the right places : )

arthwollipot: you'd be surprised.

[arthwollipot]

arthwollipot: you'd be surprised.I live in hope of the day when I am surprised.

[ponderingturtle]

Hey, I'm with you people. I love the tabletop too, but at 44 and 31, it's a little difficult finding players our age.... :)


I know plenty of players in that age group. The problem is that kids make finding compatable gaming schedules difficult.

[ponderingturtle]

My new character (in a game that hasn't actually started yet...) is an anti-necromancer. A follower of the goddess of death, but sworn a sacred vow to destroy necromancers and ensure that dead people actually stay dead.

Ah, a PC I made was like that, but his relgion was Jewish, he was just blessed by a god of death to destroy undead and bring mortality to the immortal.

The idea of a monotheist who had powers granted to him by a polytheistic deity is fun.

[ponderingturtle]

Well, I'm going to die a "technical" virgin! I'm fatter than hell and I am bipolar to boot.

Where did I put that suicide note?

Mark going by your pictures you do not fit into the grossly obese, especialy by gamer standards.

[Trifikas]

We do pretty well for ourselves (game-wise..That other stuff? Not so much...) in South Eastern PA. We had a game running for several years, when that campaign ended, started a new one that's still going, plus various one-off games and such, usually 3 times a month.

(Bored? no, I mean REALLY bored? Our story hour still is on the web: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=99)

Ah, a PC I made was like that, but his relgion was Jewish, he was just blessed by a god of death to destroy undead and bring mortality to the immortal.

I threatened a few times to make a Hassidic Jewish Paladin.."Oy, you don't know from evil.."

[ponderingturtle]

I threatened a few times to make a Hassidic Jewish Paladin.."Oy, you don't know from evil.."

Technically the character started as an Israeli commando.

[Normal Dude]

Wow. You guys need to live here. The gaming community in the Triad area of NC is infamous for playing musical beds and throwing clothing-optional BDSM parties. Unless you are grossly obese and don't have the personality to make up for it, you are going to get laid!!

I see I was hanging out with the wrong people when I was gaming!

[Shalamar]

When I was a kid, I got into D&D. My parents happily got me my first books (The D&D Basic Box set! With the dice, and the crayon to colour in the numbers!) They heard all the talk about how evil it was, and all they cared about was 'He's getting out of the house. Meeting people, and not doing drugs'. Thats it.

I've played AD&D from 1st edition through 3.5 now, and I play a Monk in a table top game where I video conference call to a group in Utah where an awesome DM runs a fantastic game. Its not quite the same as being there, but its still a lot of fun.

But there is still somewhat of a stigma '35 years old, and playing D&D? whats wrong with you?'

Well, my wife doesn't care, and she's played, and enjoyed it.

A couple years ago, I started up another hobby where the overwhelming response is usually along the lines of 'What? You don't have a life, and you live in your mothers basement, right?'

I do this:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh180/Shalamar01/vadertroops1.jpg
This is me with a couple friends. I'm the one in the middle, all dressed in black.

Its a demanding, and expensive hobby. Yet, many say we must have no lives. (Some later come back, and sheepishly ask us where they can get a stormtrooper costume). We go out in costume many times a year, and do it for Charity. Yet we're looked down on.

But show up half-naked, painted in team colours, and acting like a moron to a football game to watch multi-millionaires chase a ball around a field... and you're 'manly'.

Bah. Screw 'em. Go out, have fun!

[Belz...]

Wow. You guys need to live here. The gaming community in the Triad area of NC is infamous for playing musical beds and throwing clothing-optional BDSM parties. Unless you are grossly obese and don't have the personality to make up for it, you are going to get laid!!

So where do I sign up ? :D

[Belz...]

Gee, Shalamar, who made that Vader outfit ?

[Shalamar]

Gee, Shalamar, who made that Vader outfit ?

The helmet, Chest Armor, chest box, and belt were made by different individuals. I don't have the skills (yet) to make them myself.

The boots were custom made to my rather large feet.

The bodysuit, inner robe, and outer cape were made by myself and my wife.

I need new shins, as the ones there were made from thin ABS, and are cracking. I also need new gloves, as I don't like the shape of the flare. Its a never ended process.

In other words, not a single item on that costume is licensed. It is %100 fan made. You can not find quality like that in any store in the world. And yes; It is a VERY HOT outfit to wear.

[Ryokan]

This is me with a couple friends. I'm the one in the middle, all dressed in black.

Isn't the one on the left a little short to be a stormtrooper?

[Shalamar]

Isn't the one on the left a little short to be a stormtrooper?

Yes. He gets that a LOT. :) Great guy though.

[Belz...]

The helmet, Chest Armor, chest box, and belt were made by different individuals. I don't have the skills (yet) to make them myself.

That's awesome work. Are you sure they didn't steal it from Lucasfilm ?

[Shalamar]

That's awesome work. Are you sure they didn't steal it from Lucasfilm ?

And Thats the comment we love to hear. :) Makes all the work worthwhile. And I need to replace and re-work a few of the items...

[Leicontis]

As long as we're hijacking with recounting of oddball characters, I might as well bring up a few of my favorites:

The half-dryad archer whose bow was made from a stave of heartwood his mother gave him from her tree (how many other non-monk characters are biologically related to their weapon?)

The guy who tried to gain power by consuming the soul of a pixie, only to screw up the ritual and end up with the pixie's voice in his head for the rest of his life

The party rogue who ended up as a front-line melee fighter, took cleric levels without the other PCs finding out for quite some time, and carried on a long-distance romantic relationship with an evil NPC

The illusionist that has Lovecraft-esque nightmares every night, and tends to use his illusions to show them to his enemies

[Ryokan]

Yes. He gets that a LOT. :) Great guy though.

Well, it wasn't supposed to be an attack on the guy in any way, but rather a paraphrase from the first Star Wars movie.

[Madalch]

Well, it wasn't supposed to be an attack on the guy in any way, but rather a paraphrase from the first Star Wars movie.
Which is probably why he gets it a lot- everyone thinks they'll be the first to say it to him...

[Shalamar]

Well, it wasn't supposed to be an attack on the guy in any way, but rather a paraphrase from the first Star Wars movie.

ALL Stormtroopers get that line. Tall, short, average.

The line I always get is 'Luke, I am your father'.

[arthwollipot]

Its a demanding, and expensive hobby. Yet, many say we must have no lives. (Some later come back, and sheepishly ask us where they can get a stormtrooper costume). We go out in costume many times a year, and do it for Charity. Yet we're looked down on.Hey, it's no weirder than what I do. My hobby actually looks dangerous!