Profit from morons.

[TheMashiah]

Today in school I sold a bag of nightshade to some Wiccan kid for $10. I'm happy.:)

[Boo]

You do realize that it is a deadly plant? That if ingested by anyone they could easily and quickly die?

I find nothing humorous about this in any way.


Boo

[Jeff Corey]

I heartly agree, Boo.
If it was actually Atropa Belladonna, the small black berries are highly toxic.

[Lord Kenneth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Scizerus, but didn't you tell him it's "highly poisonous" and he answered "but highly magical" as well? So, you've admitted that it's poisonous.

I must say I'm highly amused that you actually pulled it off. I thought he was just screwing around. I didn't think you were going to. Next stop is the spellbook, eh? How long will that take?

[Lord Kenneth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, Scizerus, but didn't you tell him it's "highly poisonous" and he answered "but highly magical" as well? So, you've admitted that it's poisonous.

I must say I'm highly amused that you actually pulled it off. I thought he was just screwing around. I didn't think you were going to. Next stop is the spellbook, eh? How long will that take?


And he's not wiccan, either, he's just a wacko.

[Clancie]

Posted by Boo

You do realize that it is a deadly plant? That if ingested by anyone they could easily and quickly die?
Yes, very alarming and not at all funny.
Posted by Lord Kenneth

I must say I'm highly amused that you actually pulled it off.
Well, that's certainly consistent with your usual level of concern for others, Kenneth. :rolleyes:
Posted by Scizerus

Today in school I sold a bag of nightshade to some Wiccan kid for $10. I'm happy.
Aside from the ethics, which apparently are of no concern to you, Scizerus--although they should be--what do you know of the legalities?

Would you be guilty of manslaughter, for example, if the person is poisoned by this?

[Lord Kenneth]

1) The person in question knows this is a poisonous plant. What, exactly, is the problem?

2) The fact that the kid thinks it's "highly magical" is what I find amusing.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
1) The person in question knows this is a poisonous plant. What, exactly, is the problem?.
The problem is, you mor0n, is that that was never established as being the case. The dealee might not have known about the poisonous nature of Belladonna . The kid could have ODed on the atropne from as few as ten berries.
Why don't you just go and eat some Jimsom Weed.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

The problem is, you mor0n, is that that was never established as being the case. The dealee might not have known about the poisonous nature of Belladonna . The kid could have ODed on the atropne from as few as ten berries.
Why don't you just go and eat some Jimsom Weed.

Yes, from what I heard, the kid DID know it is poisonous. So what are you talking about?

The kid wants the nightshade because he thinks it has magical powers to be used in spells. Yes, that's right, spells. He is trying to buy a "spellbook" off of Scizerus as well.

[Zep]

Here, Ken! I've got some lovely mushrooms for your next salad.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Zep
Here, Ken! I've got some lovely mushrooms for your next salad.

Are they garden fresh?

Also, will they let me grow in size and give me the ability to break brick blocks with my head?

[Zep]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Are they garden fresh?

Indeed they are! A nice pale green colour...

Also, will they let me grow in size and give me the ability to break brick blocks with my head?

You will certainly THINK you can! Just before you die a horrible death...

[Boo]

I am appalled by the two of you. This little stunt of yours is disgusting.

I have finally found a reason to use my ignore function.


Boo

[uneasy]

Hey, Boo, you wouldn't believe how short this thread is for me through the magic of the ignore function. :)

I better edit it to add that one wasn't on my ignore list before I read this, but now is, and I won't be checking back. Byeeee

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth


Are they garden fresh?

Also, will they let me grow in size and give me the ability to break brick blocks with my head? Might just be a placebo effect, mate.
Placebopsybin, an imaginary trip.

[Boo]

Just as an FYI, I reported this thread.
A life is potentially at risk.

Boo

[Jeff Corey]

Boo,
Good. Thank you.
Jeff

[FutileJester]

This is the most disgusting thing I've read here since I saw what Jedi Knight wrote to Fool. If you have any humanity at all you will let this kid's parents know IMMEDIATELY that he's in possesion of a deadly poison.

When people say skeptics have no heart, you're who they're talking about. Thanks so much for keeping our movement small and despised.

[Jeff Corey]

I don't think it's a skeptic. I think it's a budding psychopathic criminal.
How about a salad recipe for it:
Freshly harvested Datura leaves, slices of Amantia Virosa, juice of Belladonna, and a slathering of well aged blue cheese.
And a nomination for the Darwin Award.

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by FutileJester
This is the most disgusting thing I've read here since I saw what Jedi Knight wrote to Fool. If you have any humanity at all you will let this kid's parents know IMMEDIATELY that he's in possesion of a deadly poison.

When people say skeptics have no heart, you're who they're talking about. Thanks so much for keeping our movement small and despised.

my confusion lies in this, does the kid buying this intend to consume it or it used as some sort of material component for his "spells"?

[Lord Kenneth]

When the nightshade was sold, Scizerus made it perfectly clear to him to not

1) eat it
2) smoke it
3) digest it in ANY shape or form.

The kid believes it's magical. In what way, who knows. So it's poisonous. So what? So are a lot of cleaning materials. Just because this is an organic plant doesn't mean the wacko kid intends to eat it.

Good thing Boo and such aren't serious skeptics or intellectuals, otherwise I'd be dismayed that they blocked me.

If Boo was a real skeptic, she'd realize that. She would also realize that I have no part in this thing, I am just an observer who knows the facts. Apparently, she would rather make accusations and remain ignorant than know the truth.

[Lord Kenneth]

I am quite amazed at the knee-jerk reactions in this thread. I myself know the facts through correspondence with Scizerus. If you'd have asked him you could have gotten the facts.

Now, not to be a "carlos" or Franko of any sort, but these sort of reactions show just how unskeptical some of our fellow "skeptics" can be. Sure, be skeptical about the paranormal, but not skeptical about everyday events or little odd ones that are not supernatural.

For shame. It's more of a desire to be able to rebuke and make yourself feel better than others. Who cares about the facts?

Yes, nightshade is poisonous, and Scizerus sold it. No, I have nothing to do with this little transaction. Hell, I don't even know if this really WAS nightshade or not.

Scizerus TOLD HIM it was poisonous (I am in private correspondence with him and knew about this before he posted it). Scizerus did not make any claims about nightshade besides what's known to be fact-- that's it's poisonous. He did not, apparently, say that it has healing properties, etc. He sold it because someone wanted it because they either think it's magical because they are highly deluded, or something who enjoys playing jokes and doesn't mind losing money over it.

This just goes to show how some skeptics can act like believers and jump to conclusions without doing an in-depth investigation.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh


my confusion lies in this, does the kid buying this intend to consume it or it used as some sort of material component for his "spells"?

This is an example of skepticism in action. Trying to actually get to know the facts before jumping to conclusions.

You are a winner! Please pass the losers (Boo, uneasy, Jeff Corey) and collect your prize.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Correct me if I'm wrong, Scizerus, but didn't you tell him it's "highly poisonous" and he answered "but highly magical" as well? So, you've admitted that it's poisonous.

I must say I'm highly amused that you actually pulled it off. I thought he was just screwing around. I didn't think you were going to. Next stop is the spellbook, eh? How long will that take?
This was the first thing you posted on this. At no time did you say anything about your PMs with him, until unmasked as an uncaring jester, not a true skeptic.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

This was the first thing you posted on this. At no time did you say anything about your PMs with him, until unmasked as an uncaring jester, not a true skeptic.

Again, you jump to conclusions. I have not sent him a single PM. I know him from elsewhere.

But, that doesn't really matter.

I did not act like an "uncaring jester". I was just amused at the situation, because I KNEW THE FACTS (hence why I found it funny).

[tamiO]

In earlier times in Italy, extracts of belladonna were used to dialate their eyes for cosmetic purposes; such use explains the origin of the common name (Italian, "beautiful woman"). Belladonna was also an important ingredient in Witches brew during the Middle ages, often being equated with aggressive female sexuality. A flying ointment salve was made from this plant along with others, and rubbed on the bodies of women to experience erotic sensations and hallucinations. Experiments have shown that the subjective sensation of flight was a common theme with subjects under the influence of solanaceous compounds, not unlike what was reportedly experienced by witches.

text taken from this site:

http://www.salviasupply.com/store/atropa-belladonna.html

4 ounces goes for $19.00

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by tamiO


text taken from this site:

http://www.salviasupply.com/store/atropa-belladonna.html

4 ounces goes for $19.00

Haha, maybe it wasn't really nightshade if it was at that kind of price!

Scizerus, do you even know what you are talking about? If that really was nightshade you might've gotten ripped off!

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth


Again, you jump to conclusions. I have not sent him a single PM. I know him from elsewhere.

But, that doesn't really matter.

I did not act like an "uncaring jester". I was just amused at the situation, because I KNEW THE FACTS (hence why I found it funny).
Well. EXCUSE ME! You said you were in correspondece with him. My assumption that it was a PM was unwarrented. But you are still a jerk for posting from a position of having inside information and criticising people who didn't. It looked like someone had sold poison to another student and the adults here were concerned.
Go play your high school games elsewhere.

[Sundog]

This kid should have been voted off the island long ago. What the hell's going on around here? Why is he still here?

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey

Well. EXCUSE ME! You said you were in correspondece with him. My assumption that it was a PM was unwarrented. But you are still a jerk for posting from a position of having inside information and criticising people who didn't. It looked like someone had sold poison to another student and the adults here were concerned.
Go play your high school games elsewhere.

Like I said, it doesn't matter about the PMs. I can see why you would think that, however, it was still another assumption.

I did not criticize people who didn't have the inside knowledge, I did so because of the very nature on how they reacted.

And, apparently, this stuff is even sold online. Why not go write them a nasty letter about how stupid little boys might ingest it?

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Scizerus
Today in school I sold a bag of nightshade to some Wiccan kid for $10. I'm happy.:)
Ok, this looks like a potential crime to me. I've forwarded Scizerus's IP information to the administrators. I refer to JREF Forum Rule 1:

1. The post is potentially criminal
-(e.g., kiddie porn, links to viruses, etc.). Such posts will be referred to proper legal channels.

If it was a joke, bad move. I don't have a sense of humor when someone claims to have sold poisonous substances to a minor.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Ok, this looks like a potential crime to me. I've forwarded Scizerus's IP information to the administrators. I refer to JREF Forum Rule 1:

1. The post is potentially criminal
-(e.g., kiddie porn, links to viruses, etc.). Such posts will be referred to proper legal channels.

If it was a joke, bad move. I don't have a sense of humor when someone claims to have sold poisonous substances to a minor.

How is that any more or less criminal than the link tami brought up?

Also, I presume you are strongly against the selling of rat poison, pesticides, cleaning chemicals, and such to minors as well, even though they are easily accessible in grocery stores?

[Lord Kenneth]

Also note that this is not in the form of pure poison, it is a naturally-growing plant, which is legally sold in apparently many places.

I can't seem to see what law Scizerus broke. There are many things which are poisionous that are easily accessible. The thing was not sold because of the poision but because of its supposed "magical properties".

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
How is that any more or less criminal than the link tami brought up?

Also, I presume you are strongly against the selling of rat poison, pesticides, cleaning chemicals, and such to minors as well, even though they are easily accessible in grocery stores?
Use your brain. Under the alleged circumstances described by Scizerus, it appears to be a criminal act. You can't buy nightshade at the grocery, and you can't sell a bag of rat poison at school. Well, I suppose you can, but it's still probably criminal. BTW I've reported that web site to the FDA.


Also note that this is not in the form of pure poison, it is a naturally-growing plant, which is legally sold in apparently many places.

I can't seem to see what law Scizerus broke. There are many things which are poisionous that are easily accessible. The thing was not sold because of the poision but because of its supposed "magical properties".
Tough. It's poisonous. It grows in my back yard, too, but I don't sell it to kids.

[Chad Noles]

One might inquire if the "bag" that contained the alledged nightshade carried the proper Poison labeling.Was there child safety protection packaging?Did the bag have poison control safety numbers clearly marked on the container?Wouldn't want anyone to distribute improperly labled poison for sale.It's not exactly the same as the grocery store from your description.

[Lord Kenneth]

I have yet to find a single mention of nightshade being illegal to sell. Are you so quick as to report a website before you know whether it is commiting a crime or not?

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
I have yet to find a single mention of nightshade being illegal to sell. Are you so quick as to report a website before you know whether it is commiting a crime or not?
Yup. I'll let the FDA decide. I don't much care about ridiculous jerks who seek cheap highs.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Yup. I'll let the FDA decide. I don't much care about ridiculous jerks who seek cheap highs.

Your motivations are unmasked, now.

You do know that Nightshade, to my knowledge, is used in many other things besides hallucinagens?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/belladonna/belladonna.shtml

Despite Belladonna's toxicity, there are several medical uses of it's parts...though generally not tried at home. The name (fair lady) comes from the fabled use of the plant's juices by Italian ladies, who would drop the juice in their eyes to enlarge their pupils and make their eyes more beautiful. Atropine, a chemical found in belladonna is used by modern eye doctors to dilate the pupils to they can examine the retina. Two other substances found in Belladonna, scopolamine and hyoscyamine, are used in a number of antispasmodics used to treat intestinal disorders like diarrhea, irritable colon, and peptic ulcers.


They have very legit medical uses. I can't find anything about getting high with this plant.

I think you are simply afraid of the word "plant".

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Your motivations are unmasked, now.

You do know that Nightshade, to my knowledge, is used in many other things besides hallucinagens?

http://www.erowid.org/plants/belladonna/belladonna.shtml

They have very legit medical uses. I can't find anything about getting high with this plant.

I think you are simply afraid of the word "plant".
Get this straight, kid. The plant is poisonous. I'm sure it isn't legal for a schoolkid to sell a bag of nightshade to another schoolkid for ten bucks, and I'm sure it was not intended for any legitimate purposes. You can try to rationalize it to your heart's content, but I'm sure your buddy will find himself in real trouble for his actions. So will the idiot who bought it. It doesn't matter if technically nightshade is not a controlled substance.

If you have doubts about this, ask your school principal. I'm sure he or she will be quite interested in the topic.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Get this straight, kid. The plant is poisonous. I'm sure it isn't legal for a schoolkid to sell a bag of nightshade to another schoolkid for ten bucks, and I'm sure it was not intended for any legitimate purposes. You can try to rationalize it to your heart's content, but I'm sure your buddy will find himself in real trouble for his actions. So will the idiot who bought it. It doesn't matter if technically nightshade is not a controlled substance.

If you have doubts about this, ask your school principal. I'm sure he or she will be quite interested in the topic.

I don't care either way, as I am not a part of this.

I honestly cannot find anything about it being illegal.

The purposes for the nightshade, had you read this topic, would be because they buyer believe nightshade to be magical. He was told not to smoke it or eat it or anything.

There are a *lot* of poisionous substances people can buy. Do you think drinking bleach is safe? It sure isn't, but I don't think you'd have any trouble if it were bleach being sold instead of nightshade. Sure, they are different things, but that doesn't change the fact that they both are poisionous and have legitimate purposes.

If you don't want me to argue with you, simply show me some evidence.

Again, if it is legal, show me some proof; show me the law. Otherwise I will assume there is nothing illegal going on.

Goodness, for a moderator you sure are rude. You might want to calm down a little, Pyrrho.

[Lord Kenneth]

In fact, I believe potatos are members of the nightshade family. The leaves (and stem?) of the potato are poisonous, hence why you shouldn't eat potato eyes.

Perhaps you should begin an anti-potato crusade?

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
In fact, I believe potatos are members of the nightshade family. The leaves (and stem?) of the potato are poisonous, hence why you shouldn't eat potato eyes.

Perhaps you should begin an anti-potato crusade?
If someone was selling a bag of potato leaves or potato eyes to a schoolkid, I'd react the same way. I've already told you: it doesn't matter if the substance is technically uncontrolled. It's a poisonous substance. Selling it in school is bound to be illegal.

(educational aside: commercially sold potatoes are treated with chemicals to retard the growth of shoots from the potato "eyes")

[Lord Kenneth]

So according to your logic it's also bad to sell home-grown potatos to minors?

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
So according to your logic it's also bad to sell home-grown potatos to minors?
Come now, you can do better than that.

[Lord Kenneth]

Answer the question. You said you'd have the same problem with potato eyes, and potatoes contain potato eyes (obviously).

[SteveGrenard]

I agree with those who state that it probably illegal to sell a medicinal plant, the derivatives of which are used in prescription drugs. I passed along the post to an old friend at the DEA for an opinion. That said, the following information and websites concerning "Deadly Nightshade" should be of interest:

http://www.scienceu.com/library/articles/flowers/nightshade_flowers.html

http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/mom/solanine/deadlynightshade.html

excerpted from the above site…for more, visit the above sites.

"The deadly nightshade has been used throughout history for various purposes, most of which were quite unsavoury. The ancient Greeks used to drink it when they visited the Oracle of Delphi and added the juice to their famous wine of the Bacchanals. During the middle ages it was used widely for all manner of purposes including hallucinogenic and torture. Deadly nightshade was the poison used to poison the troops of Mark Anthony during the parathion wars and was in a liquor which Macbeth gave to a party of Danes during a truce.


Torturers of the time used it to gain confessions from both the guilty and innocent as those employed under its power are confused and weakened, and cannot distinguish between truth and fantasy. Witches of the middle ages were said to use it as a main ingredient in their brews as it caused them to experience the feeling of flying. More recently the juice has been used as a main component in many purple dyes and is used to treat gout, rheumatism and angina. It is also used as a childbirth anesthesia, to treat inflammatory tumors, and cancerous leaf's and in the treatment of Parkinson's disease. The people of Nepal use it as a sedative, while the Moroccans use it to stimulate memory and as an aphrodisiac and those in the illegal drug trade use it to fortify marijuana. The active ingredient derived from deadly nightshade is also known: Solanine"

[TruthSeeker]

I can't believe I'm getting involved in this but I have a question.

What were you and Scizerus hoping would happen to the Wiccan kid?

Don't say you weren't involved because you obviously had a hand in the planning and encouragement of the sale.

[Lord Kenneth]

I did not have a hand or encouragement in the sale at all. Don't tell me I did something when I very clearly did not.
In fact, I didn't actually believe such a transaction would take place. I was suprised to hear that it actually happened. I know the details, but I did not participate in this at all.

If this plant is indeed illegal to sell, I have not yet seen any mentions of that being true.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Answer the question. You said you'd have the same problem with potato eyes, and potatoes contain potato eyes (obviously).
ROFL, ok...potato leaves and potato eyes contain the same toxic substances as nightshade...I think I made it clear that I would certainly object if someone sold a bag of potato leaves or potato eyes to some kid for ten bucks. They are selling a poisonous substance. This is where the legal problem arises; the leaves, roots, eyes, etc. are definitively poisonous.

Now, as to potatoes themselves, there is this information:


http://www.oasisnetwork.com/_SCarticles/NatvsSyn.htm

Toxic potatoes?
All potatoes, organically grown or not, contain a chemical called solanine, which is a poison. The average American eats about 100 pounds of potatoes a year, which contains over two times the lethal dose. Celery contains a potent carcinogen (cancer-causing agent) which is actually a risk factor for packagers who routinely handle the vegetable. There are two points to be made from these examples.

1. Don’t eat 50 pounds of potatoes at one time.
2. The value of a chemical cannot be determined by where it comes from.


Obviously one cannot ban the selling of potatoes, because they don't contain the potent levels of toxic chemicals as the leaves of the plant do. The same goes for tomatoes and eggplants:


http://www.exoticbird.com/toxicfood.html

Potatoes and tomatoes are part of the Nightshade family and their foliage is
poisonous, as are potato eyes. Some toxin may be present in the potato skin
itself, particularly if green. (A tomato had to actually be taken off the
seed market several years ago because the levels in the fruit were too high
for consumption) Beans (lima, black, etc) that are too mature can be toxic,
particularly when uncooked. Dont eat the foliage either. Eggplant foliage
is toxic, because eggplant is in the same family as potatoes and tomatoes
(solanum).
The issue is still this: some kid claims to have sold a bag of nightshade to another kid, at school. He ain't selling fruits and vegetables, and the toxicity of nightshade is well known. I'm sure it's covered under some law on the books in that locality.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Correct me if I'm wrong, Scizerus, but didn't you tell him it's "highly poisonous" and he answered "but highly magical" as well? So, you've admitted that it's poisonous.

I must say I'm highly amused that you actually pulled it off. I thought he was just screwing around. I didn't think you were going to. Next stop is the spellbook, eh? How long will that take?


This post led me to believe you knew about the sale before hand, did nothing to stop or discourage it, and may actually have rehearsed your friend in what to say in order to cover his a**.

Your amusement leads me to wonder what you expect the purchaser to do with his purchase. I note you have not answered my question.

[Lord Kenneth]

Obviously one cannot ban the selling of potatoes, because they don't contain the potent levels of toxic chemicals as the leaves of the plant do. The same goes for tomatoes and eggplants:

Then what's the limit? Why a bag of potatos and not potato eyes? Or, what if the potato eyes were cut out of these potatos and sold instead? It would, afterall, be the same amount of potato eyes available-- just minus the root (the part of potato we eat).

What about selling an entire potato plant, leaves, stem, root and all? Would that be illegal as well?

Again, you haven't mentioned bleach. What about bleach? That surely is toxic... would you object to the selling of bleach?

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker



This post led me to believe you knew about the sale before hand, did nothing to stop or discourage it, and may actually have rehearsed your friend in what to say in order to cover his a**.

Your amusement leads me to wonder what you expect the purchaser to do with his purchase. I note you have not answered my question.


When he said that the kid was planning to buy nightshade because he thinks it is magical, I assumed the kid was joking and wasn't going to buy it. There's something called absurdity, you know. I would have reacted the same way had the kid supposedly said he wanted it to summon aliens.

Personally, I have no idea what he wants to do with the nightshade-- he apparently from what I've heard thinks it's magical, so I really can't speculate on that (I don't know what kind this kid things about magic, he's rather strange and has talked about how some of his friends are half-elves...)

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth



When he said that the kid was planning to buy nightshade because he thinks it is magical, I assumed the kid was joking and wasn't going to buy it. There's something called absurdity, you know. I would have reacted the same way had the kid supposedly said he wanted it to summon aliens.

Personally, I have no idea what he wants to do with the nightshade-- he apparently from what I've heard thinks it's magical, so I really can't speculate on that (I don't know what kind this kid things about magic, he's rather strange and has talked about how some of his friends are half-elves...)

so, you are amused by the actions of a young man who may be mentally ill? If you know how "strange" this boy is, you knew there was a high likelihood he'd buy the nightshade. And, I suspect, you are hoping it will make him ill. Won't that be an absurd joke! It'll prove how superior you are to this "strange" boy. How sad.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Then what's the limit? Why a bag of potatos and not potato eyes? Or, what if the potato eyes were cut out of these potatos and sold instead? It would, afterall, be the same amount of potato eyes available-- just minus the root (the part of potato we eat).

What about selling an entire potato plant, leaves, stem, root and all? Would that be illegal as well?

Again, you haven't mentioned bleach. What about bleach? That surely is toxic... would you object to the selling of bleach?
The limit, clearly, is that a schoolkid shouldn't be selling toxic plants to other kids. He shouldn't be selling bleach or any other chemical at school, either. BTW you don't sell potato plants...you sell seed potatoes. Then you're in the clear. Then the idiot can grow his own potatoes and poison himself any way he chooses.

Why won't you accept that there is something wrong -- and very likely illegal -- about a kid selling nightshade to another kid at school?

There's probably nothing illegal involved if I go out back, pick some nightshade leaves, and poison myself with them.

If I harvest them and bag them and sell them at the local school, don't you think I should be prosecuted?

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker


so, you are amused by the actions of a young man who may be mentally ill? If you know how "strange" this boy is, you knew there was a high likelihood he'd buy the nightshade. And, I suspect, you are hoping it will make him ill. Won't that be an absurd joke! It'll prove how superior you are to this "strange" boy. How sad.

Wow, can you get any more inventive?

Yes, the boy has said weird things, but that does not change the fact that he could have, as I suspected, BEEN JOKING.

Now I'm not too sure.

[Lord Kenneth]

You should be prosecuted as much as you would be prosecuted for selling a potato or tomato plant.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth


Wow, can you get any more inventive?

Yes, the boy has said weird things, but that does not change the fact that he could have, as I suspected, BEEN JOKING.

Now I'm not too sure.


It is not unreasonable to assume that a person who thinks his friends are half-elves may be delusional.

You said he is strange not that he said odd things in a joking manner. I can only base my interpretations on what you say.

I have been searching for magical spells involving nightshade. Fortunately, none that I've found online seem to involve ingesting it.

[thaiboxerken]

Hehhe. I think it's hilarious how heated this thread has gotten. Since the product being sold came with verbal warning about it's poisonous properties, I see no problem with it. I, for one, am not in favor of laws that keep people from hurting themselves. The legality of it is in question, but I see nothing morally wrong with it myself.

[thaiboxerken]

It is not unreasonable to assume that a person who thinks his friends are half-elves may be delusional.

Yes, but people also believe that a man died and was resurrected 3 days later in order to ensure their place in some magical place called heaven. If this kid is delusional for thinking his friends are half-elves, then I submit that christians should be labelled as such also.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
What were you and Scizerus hoping would happen to the Wiccan kid?
Exploit the kids mental illness for profit, possibly make jokes about his "stupidity", whatever the kid does to himself is at his own expense... yada yada yada, typical teenage mentality...

Ah, Ethics...

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Get this straight, kid. The plant is poisonous. I'm sure it isn't legal for a schoolkid to sell a bag of nightshade to another schoolkid for ten bucks, and I'm sure it was not intended for any legitimate purposes. You can try to rationalize it to your heart's content, but I'm sure your buddy will find himself in real trouble for his actions. So will the idiot who bought it. It doesn't matter if technically nightshade is not a controlled substance.

If you have doubts about this, ask your school principal. I'm sure he or she will be quite interested in the topic.
Well said.
Jeff0000000000

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by Pyrrho
If I harvest them and bag them and sell them at the local school, don't you think I should be prosecuted?
You are absolutely correct.

It is not legal to sell any poisonous substances in school (this includes bags of bleach), it is not legal to sell prescription pills/OTCs in school, it is not legal to bring any foreign substances that may be deamed dangerous into school.

Lord Kenneth doest realize that the law is written to be rather broad and inspecific, that is why there is no law that says "You cannot traffic and distribute nightshade or potato eyes at school". But I'm willing to bet there is a law that states "You cannot bring poisonous substances into the school". (Keep in mind, Lord Kenneth has beat up his mommy and didnt see anything wrong with it, he told billiefan "Your brother is not in heaven. Heaven doesnt exist" and saw his actions being neither unethical nor wrong, he put the private information of a minor on the internet and didnt see anything wrong with it, he doesnt see anything wrong with selling nightshade or other poisonous sustances at school... oh well, if learning the hard way is the only way, so be it...)

Did you know if a kid brings Oregano to school, tells another kid it is marijuana, then makes a sell, the kid can be ticketed for "Distribution of marijuana" (because he intended to market the substance as marijuana).

[SteveGrenard]

Since the product being sold came with verbal warning about it's poisonous properties.


Legally packaged, sold and distributed poisonous substances come with written warnings on the label. A verbal warning is meaningless and cannot be verified. If something harmful came about as a result of this alleged private sale it will not exonerate the distributor.

[thaiboxerken]

"Your brother is not in heaven. Heaven doesnt exist" and saw his actions being neither unethical nor wrong

What is wrong with that?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard



Legally packaged, sold and distributed poisonous substances come with written warnings on the label. A verbal warning is meaningless and cannot be verified. If something harmful came about as a result of this alleged private sale it will not exonerate the distributor.

Legally, you might be correct. Maybe the next sale should include a warning label.
I think if the Wiccan kid is stupid enough to poison himself despite being warned, oh well.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Yahweh

You are absolutely correct.

It is not legal to sell any poisonous substances in school (this includes bags of bleach), it is not legal to sell prescription pills/OTCs in school, it is not legal to bring any foreign substances that may be deamed dangerous into school.

Lord Kenneth doest realize that the law is written to be rather broad and inspecific, that is why there is no law that says "You cannot traffic and distribute nightshade or potato eyes at school". But I'm willing to bet there is a law that states "You cannot bring poisonous substances into the school". (Keep in mind, Lord Kenneth has beat up his mommy and didnt see anything wrong with it, he told billiefan "Your brother is not in heaven. Heaven doesnt exist" and saw his actions being neither unethical nor wrong, he put the private information of a minor on the internet and didnt see anything wrong with it, he doesnt see anything wrong with selling nightshade or other poisonous sustances at school... oh well, if learning the hard way is the only way, so be it...)

Did you know if a kid brings Oregano to school, tells another kid it is marijuana, then makes a sell, the kid can be ticketed for "Distribution of marijuana" (because he intended to market the substance as marijuana).


Putting your "information" on the internet? Just because I put your name, Yahweh, (which you make readily available on the internet) on the internet because you lie about your identity is no breach of a law.

As I said, it may be illegal, but I have yet to see any laws.

Either way, I don't really care, as I am not involved.

[Jaggy Bunnet]

Could one of the people who are sure its illegal, bound to be illegal, not legal, probably illegal or appears to be a criminal act please explain what law they think has been broken?

If not, then perhaps you should argue on the basis that it is, in your opinion, unethical rather than appeal to the authority of the law?

From the information we have:

Something alleged to be nightshade was sold;
A verbal warning was given that ingesting it was poisonous;
There are no indications that the buyer intends to consume it.

Was it a smart thing to do? I wouldn't say so. Was it a responsible thing to do? Again, I would think not. Would I want to associate myself with it in any way? Nope, if I knew in advance it was going to happen I would probably have tried to argue against it on the grounds that taking advantage of people isn't something I particularly like. Do I think it was illegal? I don't know, but I have not seen any evidence that it was.

And as for the argument that "it doesn't matter if the substance is technically uncontrolled. It's a poisonous substance. Selling it in school is bound to be illegal." That is a very strange definition of the word "uncontrolled"!

[FutileJester]

I'll say this one more time. This kids parents should be notified right away. This is a KID. As a society we do not assume they are mature enough yet to protect themselves. From what we're hearing, this kid in particular is irrational and needs guidance. Instead of guidance, he was put in a position where he can seriously hurt himself and others, for the sake of being able to snigger at him behind his back.

I don't care about the legality. An unbalanced kid was given an unlabeled bag of poison. This is wrong. It does not matter in the slightest what he was told or what he said he was going to do with it. It's not okay to hand a kid a loaded gun just because you say, "Don't shoot yourself".

[hammegk]

When did the JREF mission expand to saving the world from itself?

These are words on bbs. Why does anyone think any of the alleged acts occurred? The mods and the bbs just open themselves to scam after scam after scam. Short memories, huh?

If I were trying to run a bbs, p*ssing off a group of teenagers, one or more of whom might even be technically competent, seems like a bad idea to me. :rolleyes:

[Clancie]

Posted by TruthSeeker

So, you are amused by the actions of a young man who may be mentally ill?
Well, of course he is, Truth Seeker! The mentally ill are funny to mess with, Ken knows that better than anyone!

Turn off a mentally ill person's air conditioning today (that's funny!)....sell poison to a mentally ill person tomorrow so they can use it, who knows how, for some so-called "spell".... That's funny, funny stuff! :rolleyes:

[FutileJester]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I think if the Wiccan kid is stupid enough to poison himself despite being warned, oh well.

Or, maybe we make some actual effort to MAKE SURE A KID DOESN'T DIE. Maybe, just maybe, we could decide that being young and irrational is not really enough reason to let someone die.

"Your brother is not in heaven. Heaven doesnt exist" and saw his actions being neither unethical nor wrong

What is wrong with that?

It's only possible consequence is to increase the suffering of the recipient. "True" is not the same as "good".

com-pas-sion n. Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

Oddly enough, nothing in there about it being incompatible with skepticism.

[Jeff Corey]

About 10 years ago a couple of nearby highschool kids almost died from smoking Jimson Weed (Datura) because someone told them it would get them high.
Jimson weed has some medicinal uses and grows wild around here.
Ingesting or smoking enough of any part of the plant can kill you.
Would it be ethical to sell a bag of Jimson Weed to a highschool child? To encourage such a sale? To make fun of anyone stupid enough to do so?

[hal bidlack]

this thread has been reported, and so I have read it.

I totally support the actions of the moderators.

I find this thread to be very disturbing, and will take appropriate actions, both public and private, when I have the time to properly react.

As I read this thread, the seller made it clear to the buyer that the product was not for ingestion, correct? Regardless, there are issues here I feel I must address and will, but it may take a couple of days.

[alfaniner]

Hal, sorry you had to have just come back and immediately deal with this kind of b.s.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


I think if the Wiccan kid is stupid enough to poison himself despite being warned, oh well.

:eek:

Ummm... OK.

You REALLY hate believers, don't you? No one deserves to die this way.

[TheMashiah]

I was unable to clarify it was an inside joke for a friend who goes here; no transaction went on. I apologize for causing all your panties to twist.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Scizerus
I was unable to clarify it was an inside joke for a friend who goes here; no transaction went on. I apologize for causing all your panties to twist.


So you lied to me as well? What for? Now I have to deal with two liars?

[TheMashiah]

Geeze. No sense of humor at all.

[hammegk]

The clueless twits thread!

ROTFLMGDFAO! I could see a deleted thread followed by a strong pm to the OP (& other involved, perhaps); you know: "If that post is true, I intend to notify the proper authorities, and if false, post stuff like this again, you're gone".

But notify authorities and publically state you had done so? (Or, maybe that was a "joke" too?) How many hoaxes do you think will begin to occur?

[Clancie]

Posted by Scizerus

I was unable to clarify it was an inside joke for a friend who goes here; no transaction went on. I apologize for causing all your panties to twist.
Well, of course, once someone says they're telling the truth...then says it was all a lie...well, any and all credibility is destroyed.

Oh, except for the one certainty we now do have, Scizerus, that either way--true or false--you are a liar.

Hopefully, you are "only", as you indicate, callous and ignorant in your lying, not also malicious toward innocent people (but we really don't know, one way or the other, do we?.:confused:..).

[TheMashiah]

Sorry I can tell no I sould never open a can of worms like this again my bad. :bs:

[TheMashiah]

Oh and in case your wondering your welcome LordKenneth our friend Yaweh is revealed. And Yaweh you can't play a part well can you. Plus I'm not posting your name so you got nothing on me. Yes yet another false police report avoided.

[Lord Kenneth]

In case you guys were wondering, I know Scizerus at school. He followed me here after he saw me here during Cisco class (that's when he posts, we both browse here on our spare time at school) a few weeks ago. He's a joker, obviously, and he doesn't appear to be very smart. Now I don't know if he was joking or not.

Anyways, it appears that he will be in trouble if he broke the law. I'm still not sure what law he could've broken. At least I am glad that I am not involved with any of this if he was telling the truth. Nice job, Scizerus... :P

[Sundog]

Just a heartfelt word of thanks for all the many, many ways you've contributed towards making the Forum what it is today.

[thaiboxerken]

Or, maybe we make some actual effort to MAKE SURE A KID DOESN'T DIE. Maybe, just maybe, we could decide that being young and irrational is not really enough reason to let someone die.

I don't think it's rational to protect the weak from themselves.

com-pas-sion n. Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.[/b]

I don't share that emotion with you.

[thaiboxerken]

You REALLY hate believers, don't you? No one deserves to die this way.

That's your belief, you're welcome to it. I am not in favor of laws that protect people from their own stupidity. I don't think any drugs should be illegal, as long as their effects are listed. I don't think cigarettes should be banned. I don't think suicide should be illegal. Seat belts should not be mandoratory.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken

You REALLY hate believers, don't you? No one deserves to die this way.

That's your belief, you're welcome to it. I am not in favor of laws that protect people from their own stupidity.

It's not a belief, I asked you a question. Do you have children? Obviously not or you wouldn't have such a ruthless outlook.

I am repelled by the idea that we are on the same side.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Sundog


It's not a belief, I asked you a question. Do you have children? Obviously not or you wouldn't have such a ruthless outlook.

I am repelled by the idea that we are on the same side.

Same side of what? Teenagers are old enough, in my book, to know what poison means.

[thaiboxerken]

You REALLY hate believers, don't you?

Nope. I just don't have compassion for any harm they do to themselves because of their beliefs.

[TLN]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
Same side of what? Teenagers are old enough, in my book, to know what poison means.

Skepticism. Despite the fact that you're a flaming skeptic, you may one day find that you have a Wiccan child.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


Same side of what? Teenagers are old enough, in my book, to know what poison means.

Playing stupid? The same side of the skeptic fence, of course.

PLEASE never have children. Someone with your outlook shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a child.

I daresay your coldheartedness would melt pretty damn fast if you had a teenage son that you suddenly discovered was in trouble.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by TLN


Skepticism. Despite the fact that you're a flaming skeptic, you may one day find that you have a Wiccan child.

I doubt it. But, I will make sure that my child knows not to ingest poison.

[Sundog]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


I doubt it. But, I will make sure that my child knows not to ingest poison.

This may be the most incredibly naive thing I've ever seen posted on the internet.

Hey, everyone! A cure for drug abuse has been found! Damn, and it was so simple, too. It took a real skeptical genius to think of it. Just tell them it's bad for them! Duh, what were we thinking?

[thaiboxerken]

PLEASE never have children. Someone with your outlook shouldn't be allowed within a mile of a child.

Why? Is my outlook dangerous in any way?


I daresay your coldheartedness would melt pretty damn fast if you had a teenage son that you suddenly discovered was in trouble.

Cold-hearted? Interesting. I might be talking to bleeding-heart liberals here.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Sundog


This may be the most incredibly naive thing I've ever seen posted on the internet.

Hey, everyone! A cure for drug abuse has been found! Damn, and it was so simple, too. It took a real skeptical genius to think of it. Just tell them it's bad for them! Duh, what were we thinking?

I said they'll be informed of the effects of poison and drugs. If they do it, well I guess that's too bad for them. If anyone is stupid enough to poison themselves knowingly, I could care less.

[FutileJester]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
com-pas-sion n. Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it.

I don't share that emotion with you. [/B]

Yes I know. I'm suggesting that you might try it on for size once in a while. Incidentally, "CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY" is one of the indicators of a psychopath according to the Psychopathy Checklikst-Revised (PCL-R).

[Sundog]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
[B]Cold-hearted? Interesting. I might be talking to bleeding-heart liberals here.

You're talking to a FATHER, d!ckhead. And it's the last time you will ever talk to this one.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by FutileJester


Yes I know. I'm suggesting that you might try it on for size once in a while. Incidentally, "CALLOUSNESS and LACK OF EMPATHY" is one of the indicators of a psychopath according to the Psychopathy Checklikst-Revised (PCL-R).

Ok. So? Are you suggesting that I'm a pyschopath?

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Sundog


You're talking to a FATHER, d!ckhead. And it's the last time you will ever talk to this one.

That's ok, it's not like you really ever said anything interesting anyway.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by hammegk
The clueless twits thread!

ROTFLMGDFAO! I could see a deleted thread followed by a strong pm to the OP (& other involved, perhaps); you know: "If that post is true, I intend to notify the proper authorities, and if false, post stuff like this again, you're gone".

But notify authorities and publically state you had done so? (Or, maybe that was a "joke" too?) How many hoaxes do you think will begin to occur?


I am embarrassed that I fell for this hoax. If it was a hoax.

But I am glad that people showed concern for the possibility that someone was potentially harmed.

I would not be surprised to find out that LK is, in fact, Scizerus. To both of you (or one of you, whichever it is) please keep your inside jokes private from now on. And try to keep your lies to a minimum :rolleyes:

[Lord Kenneth]

Something I'm rather interested in is the fact that this kid is thought to be mentally ill. Why are you assuming that because he has a weird belief that is uncommon? Where do we draw the line between insane and gullible or stupid?

Not to mention that at the same time some people think the kid is Wiccan. Now is he insane for practicing his religion? Is he doing something wrong by trying to practice some of his religious beliefs, even if they involve poisonous substances?

Now, the kid isn't wiccan. Scizerus is an idiot, I don't know why he thinks that.

I apologize for Scizerus; he followed me here.

(Again, I would like to mention I found this situation because I have met the individual involved, and I was suprised that he believes its magic. I told him nightshade is poisonous and is worthless, but he claims otherwise-- he knows it is poisonous but thinks it has magical powers, or so he says). I don't know if they are playing a trick on me or not, I believed them but now I'm not so sure.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker



I am embarrassed that I fell for this hoax. If it was a hoax.

But I am glad that people showed concern for the possibility that someone was potentially harmed.

I would not be surprised to find out that LK is, in fact, Scizerus. To both of you (or one of you, whichever it is) please keep your inside jokes private from now on. And try to keep your lies to a minimum :rolleyes:


I am certainly not Scizerus. If what he did was illegal, I have no worries as I am not a part of this.

Also, I already mentioned that I don't know if this was a joke or not now. Scizerus just might be saying it now, or he might really be joking. He's the kind of person who always acts like a jackass and is proud of it.

[Jeff Corey]

The title says it.

[Lord Kenneth]

Don't you have anything better to do than troll?

Oh, I suppose not.

[Lord Kenneth]

The only law I can possibly see that could have been broken would not be selling nightshade (probably as illegal as selling antifreeze) but not having it properly labeled, if the transaction did indeed occur.

[Jeff Corey]

See above.
Postmodern humour can be extremely dicey.

[hal bidlack]

I will admit that this thread really ticks me off. I've been going through enough lately without having to worry about a forum member trying to sell poison to another one. And if it's a hoax, I'll be very relieved, but still ticked off. You will recall that I banned the last person who hoaxed this forum in this manner.

I'm not making any decision right now, as I am exhausted and not thinking as clearly as I might, but having dealt with real life death and critical illness in the last 7 days alone, I am not inclined to think favorably on anyone who finds humor in that area.

[Jeff Corey]

All of us are concerned about you and your wife.
Jeff and Ellen

[Suezoled]

You're talking to a FATHER, d!ckhead. And it's the last time you will ever talk to this one.

Sundog, I like your compassion, and the fact you want to protect people from getting hurt. My question is off topic, but please don't take it as an attack: what does your reproductive status have to do with your concern for others? The stereotype is that becoming a parents makes you a better person. The reality is that is varies (which of course everyone knows).

[Jeff Corey]

"Stereotypes are inductive leaps into large vats of excrement!"
Horselover Fat

[Lord Kenneth]

I will like to say one thing:

People report things way too much. I don't think this is out of concern for another person, I think this is because of a "holier-than-thou" attitude.

People have compared this to giving a child a loaded gun. That is ridiculous, as a gun is a weapon that fires a projectile (a bullet) that includes many laws around them, nightshade is a naturally-growing plant that is not monitored and is not illegal like marijuana is.

I don't care what some of the more paranoid posters such as Pyrrho who have an anti-plant bias is, but I am very certain you wouldn't care the slightest if bleach, antifreeze, or somesuch was sold. The word "plant" gets processed by your mind and all of the sudden the reactions start.

If this was a poison highly monitored by law I would be concerned. But this is a NATURALLY GROWING PLANT. It is very common. Nobody is lying, nobody is tellin them to eat it, in fact just the opposite is happening.

Tomato plants, potato plants are poisonous. I got Pyrrho to basically argue into absurdity, that being he would be equally concerned if a potato plant was sold. That's a downright lie and I think we all know it.

Also, quit likening this to selling Jimson weed. Nobody plans to consume it. No one plans to smoke it.

My opinion of certain people in this thread has really fallen. I've thought a bit about this; this is very absurd. You can even buy nightshade online! Of course, without looking up any laws, Pyrrho decides to be the good-little boy and "report" them to the FDA even though he can't find any law that says its illegal!

My, aren't we trigger-happy. What's next, reporting people because they said they smoked pot? Reporting people because they admitted they once sped? I can assure you both of these things have been admitted on the forums. And I can assure you no one cares.

What if the kid was joking about wanting nightshade because it's magical and wanted to own it because he's interested in botany and collect various plants? Would you care then? Don't even tell me you would, because I'm very certain you wouldn't. The problem is, when you say scizerus said the kid was wiccan, you assumed the kid would eat it or consume it in some way because he thought he would get powers. Now, that's obviously not the case, but that doesn't stop people from continually over-reacting about somethin they know little about.

In fact, it seems like people don't even really care about whether it was a threat or not, it seems like a gut reactions to either me be knowing scizerus or the fact that people did something wrong. One poster commented that both parties may be in trouble. Is that REALLY what you want? To try to screw over two teenagers who are doing nothing more than selling a natural, legal plant? Is that your idea of "help"?


Thaiboxerken, I think you are spot-on that the government doesn't need to protect people from themselves. That's not the government's place. When the government starts to make us decide what's good for ourselves then the government's purpose is to control us.

Sadly, that is already the case, and it's scary that people are embracing it.

[Clancie]

Posted by Lord Kenneth

I don't care what some of the more paranoid posters such as Pyrrho who have an anti-plant bias is..the word "plant" gets processed by your mind and all of the sudden the reactions start.
This isn't a funny thread at all, but this part about us all being motivated by "anti-plant bias" made me laugh. Yes, an awful word..."plant"...lol. :rolleyes:


My opinion of certain people in this thread has really fallen.
I'm sorry to disappoint you, Ken. I know you've always held me in such high esteem.


The problem is, when you say scizerus said the kid was wiccan, you assumed the kid would eat it or consume it in some way because he thought he would get powers.

Now, that's obviously not the case,
Ummm...no it isn't "obviously not the case." That's the problem, Kenneth. (Get it now? No, thought not. :( ).

In fact, it seems like people don't even really care about whether it was a threat or not, it seems like a gut reactions to either me be knowing scizerus ...To try to screw over two teenagers who are doing nothing more than selling a natural, legal plant? Is that your idea of "help"?
As usual, its all about you. :rolleyes:
(Hmmm....Just wondering....Can only people with that "anti-plant bias" be paranoid? :confused: )

Thaiboxerken, I think you are spot-on that the government doesn't need to protect people from themselves. That's not the government's place.
It should cause some concern for you to be in agreement with TBK's position of "zero concern for others".

Oops! That is your position. Sorry, I forgot. :(
...lack of concern or empathy for others...endless rationalizations showing you were, as always, right...never admitting wrongdoing or insensitivity...

Well, you're consistent, at least! I'll give you that! :rolleyes:

[Suggestologist]

Originally posted by Clancie

This isn't a funny thread at all, but this post made me laugh.

Watch out for that "anti-plant bias", everyone! (Amazing that we can even get through a meal with such a bias, isn't it, Ken? :rolleyes: )


There are a number of words and phrases that cause people to stop thinking and react prematurely. This thread illustrates some incredible stupidity and lack of skepticism. Not to mention lack of providing evidence for legal arguments.

[Clancie]

Posted by Suggestologist

There are a number of words and phrases that cause people to stop thinking and react prematurely. This thread illustrates some incredible stupidity and lack of skepticism. Not to mention lack of providing evidence for legal arguments.
Suggestologist,

To me, this thread is much less about legality than it is about ethics and morality (two areas which TBK, Kenneth and Scizerus seem to have alarmingly little interest in).

[Lord Kenneth]

I could say the same about you and critical thinking, Clancie.

[Suezoled]

This isn't a funny thread at all, but this part about us all being motivated by "anti-plant bias" made me laugh. Yes, an awful word..."plant"...lol


*bites leaves off stalk of celery*

That's to teach you, you evil PLANT! Down with plants! I deny them citizenship, voting rights, medical coverage, dental plans, or childcare benefits. They'll get no 401k's, disability benefits, or scholarship funding. Damn plants! To hell with them all! :mad: grrrrr! (This is a joke of course.... please don't get mad)

[Ravenwood]

Seen on a bumper in traffic: I'm not a vegetarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants...

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
I will like to say one thing:

People report things way too much. I don't think this is out of concern for another person, I think this is because of a "holier-than-thou" attitude.

Wrong. It is about taking a stand against abusive behavior.

People have compared this to giving a child a loaded gun. That is ridiculous, as a gun is a weapon that fires a projectile (a bullet) that includes many laws around them, nightshade is a naturally-growing plant that is not monitored and is not illegal like marijuana is.

I agree that this does not compare to giving a child a loaded gun. Bad analogy. This is just a stupid act by a couple of stupid kids, but that doesn't make it ok.

I don't care what some of the more paranoid posters such as Pyrrho who have an anti-plant bias is, but I am very certain you wouldn't care the slightest if bleach, antifreeze, or somesuch was sold. The word "plant" gets processed by your mind and all of the sudden the reactions start.

No, you're quite wrong about "anti-plant bias". The plant in question is nightshade. We're not talking about lettuce, here. Your attempts to confuse the issue are not working. It is not ok for a kid to sell a poisonous substance, be it a plant or chemical, to another kid, at school.

If this was a poison highly monitored by law I would be concerned. But this is a NATURALLY GROWING PLANT. It is very common. Nobody is lying, nobody is tellin them to eat it, in fact just the opposite is happening.

Tomato plants, potato plants are poisonous. I got Pyrrho to basically argue into absurdity, that being he would be equally concerned if a potato plant was sold. That's a downright lie and I think we all know it.

Nope. I said potato leaves and potato eyes, both known to be poisonous. You're the one advancing the absurd argument that its perfectly reasonable and acceptable to sell nightshade in school.

Also, quit likening this to selling Jimson weed. Nobody plans to consume it. No one plans to smoke it.

My opinion of certain people in this thread has really fallen. I've thought a bit about this; this is very absurd. You can even buy nightshade online! Of course, without looking up any laws, Pyrrho decides to be the good-little boy and "report" them to the FDA even though he can't find any law that says its illegal!

The FDA regulates the sale of medicinal herbs and substances. Up to them if they decide its illegal. As a responsible citizen, I felt it necessary to inform them of that website. Them's the breaks. Sellers of nightshade have to accept the risk that their product might be illegal.

My, aren't we trigger-happy. What's next, reporting people because they said they smoked pot? Reporting people because they admitted they once sped? I can assure you both of these things have been admitted on the forums. And I can assure you no one cares.

I can assure you that I don't care, either. Now, if they claimed to have sold a bag of pot somewhere, that's a crime, which is a violation of the rules here.

What if the kid was joking about wanting nightshade because it's magical and wanted to own it because he's interested in botany and collect various plants? Would you care then? Don't even tell me you would, because I'm very certain you wouldn't. The problem is, when you say scizerus said the kid was wiccan, you assumed the kid would eat it or consume it in some way because he thought he would get powers. Now, that's obviously not the case, but that doesn't stop people from continually over-reacting about somethin they know little about.

Nightshade is poisonous. Your buddy claimed to have sold a bag of nightshade to another kid, at school. All your what-ifs are irrelevant. It's not ok, no matter how you spin it.

In fact, it seems like people don't even really care about whether it was a threat or not, it seems like a gut reactions to either me be knowing scizerus or the fact that people did something wrong. One poster commented that both parties may be in trouble. Is that REALLY what you want? To try to screw over two teenagers who are doing nothing more than selling a natural, legal plant? Is that your idea of "help"?

Certain actions have consequences. Teenagers need to learn that fact. Patting them on the head and saying "boys will be boys" when they admit to selling a poisonous plant is not helpful.

Thaiboxerken, I think you are spot-on that the government doesn't need to protect people from themselves. That's not the government's place. When the government starts to make us decide what's good for ourselves then the government's purpose is to control us.

Sadly, that is already the case, and it's scary that people are embracing it.
If you think it's legal, I dare you to ask the local police to clarify the issue for you. That is, if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak.

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Clancie

Suggestologist,

To me, this thread is much less about legality than it is about ethics and morality (two areas which TBK, Kenneth and Scizerus seem to have alarmingly little interest in).

Because my ethics and morality are different than yours doesn't mean that I have none. I don't think we should have laws that protect the stupid from themselves.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

Wrong. It is about taking a stand against abusive behavior.
[/b]
I agree that this does not compare to giving a child a loaded gun. Bad analogy. This is just a stupid act by a couple of stupid kids, but that doesn't make it ok.
[/b]
No, you're quite wrong about "anti-plant bias". The plant in question is nightshade. We're not talking about lettuce, here. Your attempts to confuse the issue are not working. It is not ok for a kid to sell a poisonous substance, be it a plant or chemical, to another kid, at school.
[/b]
Nope. I said potato leaves and potato eyes, both known to be poisonous. You're the one advancing the absurd argument that its perfectly reasonable and acceptable to sell nightshade in school.
[/b]
The FDA regulates the sale of medicinal herbs and substances. Up to them if they decide its illegal. As a responsible citizen, I felt it necessary to inform them of that website. Them's the breaks. Sellers of nightshade have to accept the risk that their product might be illegal.
[/b]
I can assure you that I don't care, either. Now, if they claimed to have sold a bag of pot somewhere, that's a crime, which is a violation of the rules here.
[/b]
Nightshade is poisonous. Your buddy claimed to have sold a bag of nightshade to another kid, at school. All your what-ifs are irrelevant. It's not ok, no matter how you spin it.
[/b]
Certain actions have consequences. Teenagers need to learn that fact. Patting them on the head and saying "boys will be boys" when they admit to selling a poisonous plant is not helpful.

If you think it's legal, I dare you to ask the local police to clarify the issue for you. That is, if you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, so to speak. [/B]

1. Certain actions have consequences, but only because people decide to make those actions have consequences. If two people decide to do something that could potentially harm themselves it's their fault, and no one elses' concern.

2. Potato plants include the leaves, stem, and all.

3. Ask the police? Are you joking? For one, I can't talk to the police while on probation, unless I want to call the probation officer, and two, I don't trust their judgment anyways. I'd rather ask a lawyer, someone who actually KNOWS the law, not a police officer that reacts like you do.

4. You have yet to offer any evidence that it's illegal whatsoever. This is just a gut reaction. You want to punish the "bad little boys". Wow, you're such a man! You don't even care about their safety, and you know damn well nothing bad is going to happen. Such a good little boy... now go alert Ashcroft that Scizerus is commiting a terrorist act...

5. The only thing I could find on this is http://www.cga.state.ct.us/2003/fc/2003HB-06470-R000784-FC.htm and that's not even active until Oct 1... that's in Conneticut as well.

[Boo]

Hal,
My deepest sympathies and apologies for loading this on your plate right now.


I do not regret reporting this and I do not see the humor if this was a hoax. I have more than a passing intrest in herbology as it is the source of many common medications we now have. Before you leap, yes medication now is synthesized chemicals, originally they were plant extracts. Most individuals that sell herbs limit what they will sell due to potential misuse, abuse or lethalness of a plant. This includes herbs such as nightshade, Datura and even mua hong(ephedra).

Here we have only the word of a person on this board that he sold a deadly plant to another minor. Nothing said about verbal warnings or that the spells did not involve potions. That scared me. I could only act on the very limited information given. Pardon me for not being sceptical:rolleyes: . I will always err to the side of caution when a potetially lethal situation occurs.

I have dealt with too many ingestions that were not meant to be lethal and they still ended up dead.

You don't have to like or aprove my actions and frankly I don't care. I acted as my concious dictates and my training suggests.


Boo

[thaiboxerken]

I acted as my concious dictates and my training suggests.

To what end? The deed, if indeed real, happened and no person has been saved. The nightshade would still be in the hands of the Wiccan teen. I might see a problem if someone was trying to use the forum to sell anything, but all we had here was a story.

I think people overreact all too often.

[Lord Kenneth]

Since potato and tomato plants can be potentially deadly, and so are various common household chemicals, why don't we call the cops on someone who tries to sell those things, as well?

I guess it's fine and dandy thing for someone to go out into the woods and find nightshade, but no, selling it is THE DEVIL!!!!

Seriously, these plants don't grow with warning labels on them either.

Again, I am asking people which law was broken. Instead I am being insulted and am getting gut-reactions from people who quite frankly don't seem to have anything better to do than pick on my friends.

[Ravenwood]

http://www.mpp.org/statelaw/app_e.html
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/841.htm#a
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/860.htm#a
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/863.htm#d

Since LK wanted to see what laws were Violated, here are the links to the Federal ones. Although Nightshade is not illegal, per say, the Belladonna alkaloids in it are, & they are a federally controlled substance, It is amazing how many courts ruled in favor of the prosecution when the tried the people selling the plant for also selling the controlled substance in the plant...

Atropine is a very controlled substance...& Ignorance of the law is no defense.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I acted as my concious dictates and my training suggests.

To what end? The deed, if indeed real, happened and no person has been saved. The nightshade would still be in the hands of the Wiccan teen. I might see a problem if someone was trying to use the forum to sell anything, but all we had here was a story.

I think people overreact all too often.

These people are drilled into their heads to "do the right thing". Of course, they don't seem to stop to think what the "right thing" is, not for a second, but instead do what they are told, like good little Ashcroftians. They are arrogant, angry, and pathetic.

Again, if you want to outlaw nightshade, you are going to have to outlaw potato leaves and such as well. In fact, let's not stop there, let's make bleach illegal...

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Ravenwood
http://www.mpp.org/statelaw/app_e.html
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/841.htm#a
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/860.htm#a
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/csa/863.htm#d

Since LK wanted to see what laws were Violated, here are the links to the Federal ones. Although Nightshade is not illegal, per say, the Belladonna alkaloids in it are, & they are a federally controlled substance, It is amazing how many courts ruled in favor of the prosecution when the tried the people selling the plant for also selling the controlled substance in the plant...

Atropine is a very controlled substance...& Ignorance of the law is no defense.

I see no mention of atropine anywhere as a controlled substance.

[Lord Kenneth]

Another minor thing to note is the fact that the rule stated:

1. The post is potentially criminal -(e.g., kiddie porn, links to viruses, etc.). Such posts will be referred to proper legal channels.

only refers the POST, but not the actions mentioned with the post. That means if someone threatens someone, posts kiddie porn, links to illegal material, etc, it would be illegal, however, saying you did something illegal is not illegal as far I can know.

Where do we draw the line? Speeding is illegal, and can be dangerous, if someone claims to have sped will the local police be notified?

Now, if someone claims they are going to hurt someone else, that still is a threat. But if someone claims they hurt someone else, or even murdered them, I can perhaps still see it as being necessary to call. (those being perhaps situations so extreme an exception should be made).

[TruthSeeker]

Kenneth,
You seem awfully concerned for someone who claims not to be involved in the transaction.

[Lord Kenneth]

Oh, yes, another thing very interesting to note that I did not realize earlier:

Nobody told Scizerus to take back the nightshade and give the kid his money back. Instead, people jumped like a praying mantis on a cricket to try to get him into trouble. This is an incredible thirst for blood.

Nobody tried to reason with him, lecture him, etc. Nope. Instead, it's "GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL!!!!".

Perhaps talking with him about it would be far more productive than trying to destroy his life over a post on a message board?

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by TruthSeeker
Kenneth,
You seem awfully concerned for someone who claims not to be involved in the transaction.

Golly, you keep talking about how I'm a cruel, heartless bastard, when you can't even see when I'm defending a friend (and what I think is right).

I am not particularly worried about myself. I am worried that someone may be in trouble (doubtful, as nobody can show me that selling nightshade is illegal) for something rather stupid.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Oh, yes, another thing very interesting to note that I did not realize earlier:

Nobody told Scizerus to take back the nightshade and give the kid his money back. Instead, people jumped like a praying mantis on a cricket to try to get him into trouble. This is an incredible thirst for blood.

Nobody tried to reason with him, lecture him, etc. Nope. Instead, it's "GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL!!!!".

Perhaps talking with him about it would be far more productive than trying to destroy his life over a post on a message board?


Did YOU do any of these things? Sounds to me like you made a big joke of the whole thing, encouraged it, coached him in what to say and were amused by it all. Which is worse?

Oh wait, it was all a lie. oops, sorry, I'm getting confused
:rolleyes:

[Lord Kenneth]

I have already addressed all the things you have said, Truthseeker (ironic username). It's obvious you are being selective in what you want to hear. As such, I will respond to you no more. You are already on my ignore list.

[Ravenwood]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth

I am not particularly worried about myself. I am worried that someone may be in trouble (doubtful, as nobody can show me that selling nightshade is illegal) for something rather stupid.

Very true, your self centerdness on paltalk is quite evident. Yes, someone may be in trouble, legal precedence not in your favor. I don't need to show you anything. Your parents should have taught you to be a better Human being. FWIW, IMO you have gone down the flaming spiral from misguided kid to obnoxious troll. welcome to my Ignore box, say Hi to Jedi for me...

[Jeff Corey]

Next the liberal rabble will be telling us we can't possess pointed sticks!

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Ravenwood


Very true, your self centerdness on paltalk is quite evident. Yes, someone may be in trouble, legal precedence not in your favor. I don't need to show you anything. Your parents should have taught you to be a better Human being. FWIW, IMO you have gone down the flaming spiral from misguided kid to obnoxious troll. welcome to my Ignore box, say Hi to Jedi for me...


Ooooh! Retaliaton for embarrassing you (the links you posted were not relevant)?

Anyways, I'm VERY dismayed that I'm being blocked by someone who is so out of touch with these boards that they don't even know Jedi has already been banned. Yes, you're quite the productive member of these boards.

[Lord Kenneth]

You know, Ravenwood, I don't even need to ignore you, I doubt I'll be seeing much of your posts again... ha!

[thaiboxerken]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Next the liberal rabble will be telling us we can't possess pointed sticks!

I think that's what it has come down to. Let's ban bleach, because it's poisonous.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
1. Certain actions have consequences, but only because people decide to make those actions have consequences. If two people decide to do something that could potentially harm themselves it's their fault, and no one elses' concern.

If the people involved are minors, it's their parents' concern, because the parents have to pay the legal and medical bills, and are legally responsible for the behavior of their minor children. I won't engage in a debate over social law with you. I don't waste time with circular discussions.

2. Potato plants include the leaves, stem, and all.

Whatever. That's not what your buddy claimed he sold, is it?

3. Ask the police? Are you joking? For one, I can't talk to the police while on probation, unless I want to call the probation officer, and two, I don't trust their judgment anyways. I'd rather ask a lawyer, someone who actually KNOWS the law, not a police officer that reacts like you do.

No, I wasn't joking, but perhaps you could try calling the local poison control center to see what they have to say. Or ask a competent lawyer. If selling nightshade is as harmless as you think it is...

4. You have yet to offer any evidence that it's illegal whatsoever. This is just a gut reaction. You want to punish the "bad little boys". Wow, you're such a man! You don't even care about their safety, and you know damn well nothing bad is going to happen. Such a good little boy... now go alert Ashcroft that Scizerus is commiting a terrorist act...

Go back and read my post. I said it was potentially a crime. I gave IP information to the administrators here. That's all I've done. If someone posts here that they've performed a potentially illegal act, I'll do the same thing. BTW, try your kiddie insults on someone else. They don't affect me.

5. The only thing I could find on this is http://www.cga.state.ct.us/2003/fc/2003HB-06470-R000784-FC.htm and that's not even active until Oct 1... that's in Conneticut as well.
No, you won't find it on the Internet. You need to ask the local authorities where Scizerus goes to school.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
Oh, yes, another thing very interesting to note that I did not realize earlier:

Nobody told Scizerus to take back the nightshade and give the kid his money back. Instead, people jumped like a praying mantis on a cricket to try to get him into trouble. This is an incredible thirst for blood.

Nobody tried to reason with him, lecture him, etc. Nope. Instead, it's "GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL GO TO JAIL!!!!".

Perhaps talking with him about it would be far more productive than trying to destroy his life over a post on a message board?
Nobody told Scizerus to brag about it on a publicly accessible message board, either, but he did it. Now that really was stupid. Guess what? We took him at his word.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken


I think that's what it has come down to. Let's ban bleach, because it's poisonous.
Erm, I was being sarcastic..
I guess I'd better use one of those smiley things next time.:wink8:

[SteveGrenard]

Selling an unlabeled precursor or derivative of a prescription drug is illegal
without a prescription unless the transaction is from/to legally authorized persons. I am afraid that if this post was accurate, then the poster can be investigated, arrested and tried on charges related to violation of the U.S. Pure Food and Drug Act. His real e-mail address and identity, if known, must be turned over to the FBI by the board administrators immediately for investigation. The parents of the student who was the buyer should also be notified (and would be as a result of the investigation) so as to prevent any harm from occurring as a result of this transaction.

The illegal substance must be recovered and confiscated at once.

This entire thread will be furnished to the NYC Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. If the administrators of this board would like the e-mail of a supervising agent there
they can contact by private e-mail for that information.

[TruthSeeker]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
I have already addressed all the things you have said, Truthseeker (ironic username). It's obvious you are being selective in what you want to hear. As such, I will respond to you no more. You are already on my ignore list.


Best news I've gotten in a long time.

I used to think you were a confused, gifted kid who needed guidance. I see now how deeply disturbed you really are.

I hope you don't end up seriously harming any of the individuals in your life. Best wishes to you.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Selling an unlabeled precursor or derivative of a prescription drug is illegal
without a prescription unless the transaction is from/to legally authorized persons. I am afraid that if this post was accurate, then the poster can be investigated, arrested and tried on charges related to violation of the U.S. Pure Food and Drug Act. His real e-mail address and identity, if known, must be turned over to the FBI by the board administrators immediately for investigation. The parents of the student who was the buyer should also be notified (and would be as a result of the investigation) so as to prevent any harm from occurring as a result of this transaction.

The illegal substance must be recovered and confiscated at once.

This entire thread will be furnished to the NYC Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. If the administrators of this board would like the e-mail of a supervising agent there
they can contact by private e-mail for that information.


You have yet to post any laws regarding this.

[Lord Kenneth]

After reading Pyrrho's response I have determined he is a creep.

[Lord Kenneth]

Originally posted by Pyrrho

If the people involved are minors, it's their parents' concern, because the parents have to pay the legal and medical bills, and are legally responsible for the behavior of their minor children. I won't engage in a debate over social law with you. I don't waste time with circular discussions.
[/b]
Whatever. That's not what your buddy claimed he sold, is it?
[/b]
No, I wasn't joking, but perhaps you could try calling the local poison control center to see what they have to say. Or ask a competent lawyer. If selling nightshade is as harmless as you think it is...
[/b]
Go back and read my post. I said it was potentially a crime. I gave IP information to the administrators here. That's all I've done. If someone posts here that they've performed a potentially illegal act, I'll do the same thing. BTW, try your kiddie insults on someone else. They don't affect me.

No, you won't find it on the Internet. You need to ask the local authorities where Scizerus goes to school. [/B]


1. Good thing you're so concerned about people needing to pay legal bills. Good for you!

2. Wow, what a red herring that is... Yes, that's not what he claimed he sold, and that doesn't matter in the slightest. Potato plants are poisonous as well. Now are you admitting to a double standard?

3. You've done more than that. You've also reported a site to the FDA, and accused people of commiting a crime without being able to tell them what that crime is.

4. Won't find it on the internet? Doesn't that say something to you? I think you know he didn't break a law and you are just trying to get me to get Scizerus in trouble...

[SteveGrenard]

The precise provisions of the law to use in prosecuting a subject are up to the authorities (e.g. in this case woud be the FBI) and U.S. Attonrey's Office as they are complex. They usually select those provisions which will give the people the most time for the nature of the crime and then negotiate a plea bargain for a lesser offense. Given that this crime took place in a NYC School, I am sure the Schools Chancellor and Mayor's Office (now joined at the hip) will have a lot of input and want to get this guy bigtime.

PS:

I am not going to do your attorney's legal research for him. So keep asking. Answer: 0



I

[Clancie]

Kenneth,

You keep going on and on about the legalities.

Do you have any comments about the ethics of selling a minor a poisonous substance that he may use in a way that causes harm to himself or others?

Why not focus on the concept of right and wrong for a change. I'm curious how (or..."if?") you perceive the difference between right and wrong in this situation....

Or are you really as amoral as you seem from your posts.

[Lord Kenneth]

SteveGrenard... wacky as usual, I see. You think he committed a crime, yet have no idea what crime that could be... yes, this is a gut reaction, nothing more, and I am quite confident my friend will not be in any trouble.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Lord Kenneth
1. Good thing you're so concerned about people needing to pay legal bills. Good for you!

Being a minor without such obligations, you just don't understand, and I don't expect you to understand.

2. Wow, what a red herring that is... Yes, that's not what he claimed he sold, and that doesn't matter in the slightest. Potato plants are poisonous as well. Now are you admitting to a double standard?

Amusing, you accusing me of dragging a red herring across the path...there is no double standard; it is wrong for a kid to sell a poisonous substance to another kid at school, and I'm sure the local authorities would have something to say about it if they knew.

3. You've done more than that. You've also reported a site to the FDA, and accused people of commiting a crime without being able to tell them what that crime is.

So what? The FDA will decide. That's why they work for us taxpayers. I have the right to report any suspicious site I feel like reporting. I don't care if you don't like it.

4. Won't find it on the internet? Doesn't that say something to you? I think you know he didn't break a law and you are just trying to get me to get Scizerus in trouble...
Yeah, it says that you can't always find local ordinances on the freaking Internet, which, despite myths to the contrary, is not a complete or reliable compendium of information. You want legal information, ask the cops or a lawyer.

If Scizerus wants to avoid trouble, then he shouldn't sell bags of nightshade at school, and he certainly shouldn't brag about it on a publicly accessible message board.

I don't see how I can possibly get you to get Scizerus in trouble. He's done a fine job all by himself.

[SteveGrenard]

Read my lips Kenneth: I can if I wanted to do all that research and find all the laws your buddy (if its not you) broke but I won't. Its not my job. A friend at the DEA gave me the advisory I posted above. The DEA has no interest/ jurisdiction, however. It is an FBI case by definition. It is sufficient cause for further investigation and the administrators have been placed on notice that this is the recommendation. What they intend to do is up to them.

Bloomberg and Levy will also be interested in seeing this thread come Monday morning since it allegedly ocurred in a NYC school.

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by SteveGrenard
Selling an unlabeled precursor or derivative of a prescription drug is illegal
without a prescription unless the transaction is from/to legally authorized persons. I am afraid that if this post was accurate, then the poster can be investigated, arrested and tried on charges related to violation of the U.S. Pure Food and Drug Act. His real e-mail address and identity, if known, must be turned over to the FBI by the board administrators immediately for investigation. The parents of the student who was the buyer should also be notified (and would be as a result of the investigation) so as to prevent any harm from occurring as a result of this transaction.

The illegal substance must be recovered and confiscated at once.

This entire thread will be furnished to the NYC Field Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. If the administrators of this board would like the e-mail of a supervising agent there
they can contact by private e-mail for that information.
Actually, Steve, I don't think raw nightshade qualifies as a precursor or derivative. If someone had harvested enough nightshade and processed it to obtain a purified substance from it, that would qualify. I don't think this is a federal case, and I don't think the FBI is going to give a damn.

I do agree that if possible some parents should be notified, but that's about all the action I think is warranted.

[Clancie]

Steve,

I think Scizerus and Kenneth are in an Oklahoma high school, not one in NY. (I'll not print the name of the town since it's not publicly up any more, but it's easy enough to remember....as are the facts of the whole Yahweh thing you foolishly brought up here again, Scizerus. :rolleyes: )

You know the old saying, right, kids? Shape up, or..you know...ship out. Kids can post here, but the expectations are high for them to hold their own with adults (or even more so)--and most other teens here, like Kilted Canuck and morwen, seem able to do it.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Scizerus
Today in school I sold a bag of nightshade to some Wiccan kid for $10. I'm happy.:)

Let's give it a second try:




hypothetically posted by Scizerus

Hey guys! You won't believe what happened to me today. I couldn't believe that woo-woos are that naive and I thought to perfom an experiment. I took a bag of nighshade and succeeded in selling it to a fellow student. However hard I tried to explain to him that this plant is poisonous, he ignored me and he insisted on mentioning its "magical" effects...

At the end I didn't sell the poisonous herb although I could make a profit out of this moron because I thought that if he can't look after himself, I that consider myself brighter, must prevent him from harming his health. After all, this is what skepticism is all about , isn't it? I think that if I sold the herb I would resemble to the charlatans we try to expose in JREF.


Any objections to the post above? :)

[Pyrrho]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


Let's give it a second try:

=================
hypothetically posted by Scizerus

Hey guys! You won't believe what happened to me today. I couldn't believe that woo-woos are that naive and I thought to perfom an experiment. I took a bag of nighshade and succeeded in selling it to a fellow student. However hard I tried to explain to him that this plant is poisonous, he ignored me and he insisted on mentioning its "magical" effects...

At the end I didn't sell the poisonous herb although I could make a profit out of this moron because I thought that if he can't look after himself, I that consider myself brighter, must prevent him from harming his health. After all, this is what skepticism is all about , isn't it? I think that if I sold the herb I would resemble to the charlatans we try to expose in JREF.
=========================


Any objections to the post above? :)

None.

[SteveGrenard]

That's interesting since I can't find Manhattan Oklahoma then sz is lying about his location on his profile which I guess is okay here.

Heck, if I they were in Oklahoma, I wouldnt have made all that fuss. I thought they were doing this nightshade trade in NYC.

Oklahoma children are smart to the ways of deadly nightshade and are fully aware of what they are doing then, is that right?

Added to add profiles of S and LK:

Date Registered: 09-03-2003 Status: Newbie Total Posts: 14 (0.59 posts per day) Last Post: 09-26-2003 03:13 PM
Profit from morons. Contact Scizerus: Click here to email Scizerus
Send Scizerus a Private Message! Homepage: ICQ Number: AOL Instant Messenger Handle: Yahoo Instant Messenger Handle: Birthday October 7, 1977 Biography Taoist,Grad. Student at UNO, Masters in Economics Location Manhattan Interests Programming, Reading up on law and physics. Occupation Systems programmer

Total Posts: 3412 (11.16 posts per day) Last Post: 09-27-2003 12:21 PM
Profit from morons. Contact Lord Kenneth: Click here to email Lord Kenneth
Send Lord Kenneth a Private Message! Homepage: ICQ Number: AOL Instant Messenger Handle: Lord K3nn3th Yahoo Instant Messenger Handle: Birthday April 8, 1987 Biography Atheist, Materialist, Militant Skeptic Location Interests Skepticism, Science, Technology, Knowledge Occupation Student (Junior)

[Jeff Corey]

You could always locate him using Remote Viewing.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
You could always locate him using Remote Viewing.

:dl:

[Suddenly]

(I was asked via PM for input on this thread)

I seriously doubt there is a federal law question here, and I can't really speak to the state law, as I'm not sure what state and even if I did I wouldn't know enough to give an opinion.

I'm not even going to guess about school regulations.

As far as the "why is it legal to sell potatoes" argument, It may be helpful to realize that virtually all criminal acts are not defined by physical acts alone. There are two parts to a crime, the physical act (Actus Reus) and the mental state (Mens Rea).

If I sell someone a bag of potatoes so someone can make soup, there is no crime. If I sell someone a slew of potatoes, with the knowledge those potatoes are going to be used to create