Is nature an entity?

[iamivy]

I was filling in a poll on the US candidates running for Presidency to find whose ideals do I share most in common with.

One of the questions was about Gay marriage to be made legal. I was sat next to a friend and I exclaim her 'Good grief, why should this be a question at all? Ofcourse it should be and about time. After all marriage is a man made institution.' My friend retorts 'no, it is against nature' :confused:

So this thought occured to me if we find nature as sort of an entity that dictates, though not directly, how we lead our lives.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

Well even if it was "against nature" (whatever that means), is that any reason to make it illegal?

LLH

[Francesca R]

By and large, human beings are pretty good at beating nature into a cocked hat.

[Denver]

Some people will equivalate nature with God in statements such as your friend made, which would make nature a dictating entity. Others might slide it more toward natural law, which while sometimes meaning a law that comes from God, also can mean the environmental circumstances which produced and sustain life. So while in that sense it is not an entity that dictates, it can still be thought of as the source of behavioral imperatives necessary for survival.

So to answer your questions: it depends on what the person means when they say 'against nature'.

[Beerina]

Well even if it was "against nature" (whatever that means), is that any reason to make it illegal?

Exactly. "In the image of God" means your mind, and your ability to manipulate nature. That's the whole purpose of it, unless you think the actual purpose is to sit disembodied in a vat someday.

Of course, there are "practical" issues, too, but again, that's what the brain is designed to tackle. After all, your nose isn't designed to take your finger, either. Should that be illegal?

[Beerina]

Of course, all this crap was written by pre-scientific savages who had no concept of the atomic theory of matter, of relativity and quantum mechanics, of the chemical nature of life, of data processing and discrete and analog computing.

Modern savages should stick to buying the HDTVs their intellectual superiors invent for them to buy, and stop commenting on the nature of reality.


"Dude, you scored in the bottom 5th percentile in math. That's so low, you don't even understand what it means."

[Tormac]

Homosexuality occurs in many other species besides humans (I understand it is found in most primates and dolphins for example).

If homosexuality was really “against nature”, I would not expect to find it in other species as often as it is.

[Tricky]

Just about every combination you can think of exists in the animal world. In bees, though the queen and the drone provide the genetic material, not a single larva would develop without the intervention of the worker bee "nannies". It is much the same case for Californians.

[Redtail]

When I was in the Army quite a few people in my unit would say it was against nature. I responded with "Dude... we jump out of airplanes!!! Hell you wanna talk 'nature'? I don't see wings on us, what the hell are we doin up there in the first place?!?!?"

[Loss Leader]

By and large, human beings are pretty good at beating nature into a cocked hat.


You should listen to acuity. She is, without question, the foremost authority on things that are cocked.

[KingMerv00]

I was filling in a poll on the US candidates running for Presidency to find whose ideals do I share most in common with.

One of the questions was about Gay marriage to be made legal. I was sat next to a friend and I exclaim her 'Good grief, why should this be a question at all? Ofcourse it should be and about time. After all marriage is a man made institution.' My friend retorts 'no, it is against nature' :confused:

So this thought occured to me if we find nature as sort of an entity that dictates, though not directly, how we lead our lives.

Following that line of though:

Nylon doesn't occur naturally and is therefore against nature.
Jumping fights gravity and is therefore against nature.
Living past 35 requires medical care and is therefore against nature.
Birth control is OBVIOUSLY against nature.
Buildings defy entropy and therefore are against nature.

Humans are natural. Nothing we do can violate nature.

[El_Spectre]

Meh, disease, famine, disgusting parasites and nuclear explosions are all part of "nature" too. It's a rather meaningless term.

[Skibum]

When I was in the Army quite a few people in my unit would say it was against nature. I responded with "Dude... we jump out of airplanes!!! Hell you wanna talk 'nature'? I don't see wings on us, what the hell are we doin up there in the first place?!?!?"


That reminds me of a dirty joke about a jumpmaster with a huge...

[CaptainManacles]

so is civilization.

[citizen327]

It's kind of like when she said "nature" she meant "the way things ought to be," obviously not a scientific sort of definition. And if people really knew how things ought to be, the world would be a lot better than it is. It's just not a good argument...

[DanishDynamite]

I was filling in a poll on the US candidates running for Presidency to find whose ideals do I share most in common with.

One of the questions was about Gay marriage to be made legal. I was sat next to a friend and I exclaim her 'Good grief, why should this be a question at all? Ofcourse it should be and about time. After all marriage is a man made institution.' My friend retorts 'no, it is against nature' :confused:

So this thought occured to me if we find nature as sort of an entity that dictates, though not directly, how we lead our lives.
Nature is nature. Most people are pretty ignorant about it. For example, even homosexual acts seem to occur in nature. So please, if anyone ever uses such ridiculous phrases as "against nature" again, ask them what exactly they mean.

[Darth Rotor]

Some people will equivalate nature with God in statements such as your friend made, which would make nature a dictating entity. Others might slide it more toward natural law, which while sometimes meaning a law that comes from God, also can mean the environmental circumstances which produced and sustain life. So while in that sense it is not an entity that dictates, it can still be thought of as the source of behavioral imperatives necessary for survival.

So to answer your questions: it depends on what the person means when they say 'against nature'.
Coolest malogism I've seen in a while. You did put the E into JREF for me, :) as I had to look equivalate up to see if it's a word. I wonder why the word "equate" isn't sufficient for any and all purposes this word applies to?

Any wordsmiths about who can help out here?

As to the topic, I'll offer the analogy of the one way check valve, two way check valve, for your consideration, and leave it as an exercise for the reader.

In support of acuity's point, the Cod fishing fiasco of the mid 20th century demonstrated that now and again, where Man exerts will and energy, parts of Nature get arse kickings. The irony is, in so kicking arse, that Man discovers many an episode of "shooting self in the foot" : the hunger for Cod didn't go away with the (figurative) strip mining of it.

DR

[Number Six]

Another way you hear nature referred to as an entity is when people use the phrase "That's not what nature intended," as if nature conscious thing with intentions. It's interesting that it is used by both left and right at times. The right uses it in reference to social issues, as if nature dictates how society and families and sex should be set up. The left uses it in reference to food and environmental issues, as if the way things are without intervention from humans is the way things should be.

As far as gay marriage goes, I'm in favor of allowing gay civil unions and hetero civil unions too but I don't think they should call it marriage. That's just sticking a thumb in the eye of the people that don't like it and it's unnecessary. Give everyone equal legal rights to join together in a civil union with whoever they like and then let each church marry or refuse to marry whoever they like.