911 threads in a nutshell?

[nzric]

Well, I've been looking through old and new 911 threads and frankly as a JREF noob it's a bit daunting to look through the 847,364 posts between the truthers and the sane people to get an idea of what everyone has been talking about.

Anyone got a bullet pointed powerpoint presentation with the main bits? or some links to the "top" groups of 911 conspiracy posts over the last nine years? The cartoon thread is great but most of the in jokes are beyond me. But thanks, now I know what a shill and a sheeple is :)

and/or if you could introduce some of the most (in)famous members in these threads so I can check out some of the convos.

Thanks!!!

[Gravy]

Anyone got a bullet pointed powerpoint presentation with the main bits?Why, yes, yes I do:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/ScottHYouTube.jpg/ScottHYouTube-large.jpg

That's really all you need to know about truther claims. Welcome to the forums.

[Max Photon]

911 threads in a nuts hell.

[Gravy]

nzric, while my post above sums up the truther credo, I'll give you some more info. I have a page (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/911conspiracyclaimsandanswers%3Aaquickguid) for newcomers who don't want to too deeply involved.

On the home page of my site (http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/) you'll find lots of links to specific issues, many of which link to JREF forum posts. I recommend that you start with "The Basics" page, which explains how truther thinking and methods fail at the most elementary levels.

Farther down on the home page are links to excellent debunking sites that cover many issues in more depth. Most of those sites are run by people who are also members here.

[firecoins]

congrats Gravy!!! You are defeating the truth movement!!!

[e^n]

That's really all you need to know about truther claims. Welcome to the forums.

You know Gravy, I'm going to get accused of being your devoted slave by MM for saying this but that slide is extremely accurate. It is indicative of the general mindset of Conspiracy Theorists and a class of people I have yet to decide on a name for, I think 'Incredulists' is appropriate.

I have for some time been asking somewhat leading questions to various conspiracy theorists I talk to online and it's become increasingly apparent that there is a simple pattern. An Incredulist is simply driven by their own credulity, they don't seem to be consciously aware of it but they act as if their personal belief is the arbiter of facts. There are excellent examples of things we can demonstrably prove to be true which can often violate an Incredulist's credulity and result in a very clear contradiction which I have yet to see be satisfactorily resolved. Some examples are:
0.9~ (recurring) = 1
Wave / Particle duality
Special / General relativity
Infinite geometric series / Zeno's paradox
Complex numbers

These are but a few of the various complex topics which involve behaviour we do not consider to be normal. Richard Dawkins gives an excellent talk on this topic here (http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/98) and it is worthy of watching if anyone here has not seen it.

I will briefly elaborate on the first example I posted above.

0.9~ is simply 0. followed by an infinite number of 9s. This is a phenomena we're used to when dividing by three, 1/3 = 0.3~ after all. However, 0.9~ is an interesting case because it is identical to and can be considered to be 1.

It's a little hard to understand and many people's credulity will be immediately stretched. The common response is that because the 9s go on 'to infinity' it will never 'reach 1', but this is due to a lack of understanding of what exactly 'infinity' is. Infinity is a concept rather than a real number, it sits on the extended real number line and provides a useful tool for evaluating situations which would never end in reality.

The easiest way to explain it is to simply ask what is 1/3rd, most people will say 0.3~ and be happy with it, the same if you ask what is 2/3rds. However if you ask them what 3/3rds is, their credulity will once again be stretched and the only answer I have recieved is '1'. There are many other simple examples to be given, for example

10a = 9.9~
a = 0.9~
10a - a = 9
9a = 9
a = 1
0.9~ = 1

I hope this is a more thorough explanation of the mindset I have been encountering a lot and how to easily detect it, I have yet to come up with a cure however ;)

[Gravy]

congrats Gravy!!! You are defeating the truth movement!!!Thanks, but they're self-defeating. We're just catalysts in that process. The problem I worry about is how easily these ideas are accepted in the Muslim world, and how some Muslims overseas turn to (largely) non-Muslim Americans like Steven Jones, Dylan Avery, and William Rodriguez as authorities and for affirmation of their wrongheaded beliefs.

[CHF]

Thanks, but they're self-defeating. We're just catalysts in that process. The problem I worry about is how easily these ideas are accepted in the Muslim world, and how some Muslims overseas turn to (largely) non-Muslim Americans like Steven Jones, Dylan Avery, and William Rodriguez as authorities and for affirmation of their wrongheaded beliefs.

When it comes to 9/11 many in the Muslims world seem to have the same mentality as neo-Nazis do regarding the Holocaust.

Nazis think the Holocaust was a Jewish hoax but that the Jews had it coming.

Many Muslims are happy 9/11 happened because they think America deserved it because of its foreign policy....but they also claim the Jews did it. I'm still trying to make sense of that!

[OldTigerCub]

I was just going to point to my sig and smile. I got beat to teh good stuff.:p

[DarkMagician]

0.9~ is simply 0. followed by an infinite number of 9s. This is a phenomena we're used to when dividing by three, 1/3 = 0.3~ after all. However, 0.9~ is an interesting case because it is identical to and can be considered to be 1.

It's a little hard to understand and many people's credulity will be immediately stretched. The common response is that because the 9s go on 'to infinity' it will never 'reach 1', but this is due to a lack of understanding of what exactly 'infinity' is. Infinity is a concept rather than a real number, it sits on the extended real number line and provides a useful tool for evaluating situations which would never end in reality.

Well, in normal Real numbers as we know them, 0.9999...=1, but in hyperreal numbers, the 0.99999... stretch does not. It mainly matters if you're in a situation where hyperreal numbers mean something, which usually does not.

[Max Photon]

Thanks for your 1.9~ cents.