[Merged]Willie Nelson believes 9-11 was an inside job

[RedIbis]

Before you disparage this great American, remember that he lives what is best about independent minded American country music. He's beholden to no one. And he's one hell of a songwriter.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2008/020408_towers_imploded.htm

Straight talking American icon Willie Nelson today told a national radio show that he thought the twin towers were imploded like condemned Las Vegas casino buildings, as the country music superstar forcefully voiced his doubts about the official 9/11 story.

Agreeing with host Alex Jones that he questioned the official story, Nelson elaborated, "I saw those towers fall and I've seen an implosion in Las Vegas - there's too much similarities between the two, and I saw a building fall that didn't get hit by nothing," added Nelson, referring to WTC Building 7 which collapsed in the late afternoon of September 11.

"How naive are we - what do they think we'll go for?," asked Nelson, pointing out that his doubts began on the very day of 9/11.

"I saw one fall and it was just so symmetrical, I said wait a minute I just saw that last week at the casino in Las Vegas and you see these implosions all the time and the next one fell and I said hell there's another one - and they're trying to tell me that an airplane did it and I can't go along with that," said Nelson.

[dudalb]

I hereby put Willie Nelson into my kook column.
He knows about as much about engineering as he does about Income Tax Law.

[Alt+F4]

If Willie is indeed a "truther" then I at least give him credit for not paying federal income tax all those years. How could anyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job done by the federal government continue to pay taxes to those murderers? I don't get it.

[leftysergeant]

Too much pot and beer.

I love the man, but he is out of his depth here.

[David Wong]

I'm sorry but if you debunkers are saying Willie Nelson's not an expert on structural engineering... well then I guess there's just no such thing as an expert.

[defaultdotxbe]

I saw a building fall that didn't get hit by nothing
hes right, it didnt get hit by nothing

[RedIbis]

I hereby put Willie Nelson into my kook column.
He knows about as much about engineering as he does about Income Tax Law.

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

[RedIbis]

Too much pot and beer.

I love the man, but he is out of his depth here.

I'm shocked that someone here would bring up his weed smoking, but you should also know he's a very intelligent and well read man.

[Unsecured Coins]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."


Just because 2 and a Half Men is a hit doesn't mean I should listen to what Charlie Sheen says about 9-11. When Fiona Apple said it's not cool to eat turkey on thanksgiving, I went turkey hunting.

[Alt+F4]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

Hey, I for one have nothing against mainstream celebrities or other high profile people, they have same right to be wrong as "Joe Hardhat".

Hey, I have nothing against patriots either.

Hey, wanna see some evidence that 9/11 was an inside job.

[defaultdotxbe]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
and in seeing more and more celebrity jump over to truthiness im reminded of a particularly apt alexander hamilton quote

"The masses are asses"

[defaultdotxbe]

When Fiona Apple said it's not cool to eat turkey on thanksgiving, I went turkey hunting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/defaultdotxbe/bigpot6.jpg

[leftysergeant]

Is Charlie Sheen still into the Peruvian marching powder?

[Alt+F4]

im reminded of a particularly apt alexander hamilton quote

"The masses are asses"

Hamilton didn't think the masses were stupid, just ignorant. All they needed was education, just like the "truthers" need.

Now back to Willie. I see in the OP that he saw the towers fall...yeah on television.

[RedIbis]

Just because 2 and a Half Men is a hit doesn't mean I should listen to what Charlie Sheen says about 9-11. When Fiona Apple said it's not cool to eat turkey on thanksgiving, I went turkey hunting.

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.

[dudalb]

Is Charlie Sheen still into the Peruvian marching powder?

After getting a good look at some of his behavior, I know why his wife left him.

[TriskettheKid]

I can't really trust someone who was in that Dukes of Hazard movie.

Except for maybe James Roday. That show, Psych, has absolved him of that mess.

[Unsecured Coins]

why should I listen to someone based on a hunch?

[tsig]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

Samuel Clemens participated in one small skirmish in the Civil War and then left.

[dudalb]

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.


Great Oogly Moogly, the Common Sense Argument.
Forget hundreds of pages of scientific studies and expert opinion, "Common Sense" is more reliable.

[JimBenArm]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
Yeah, let's see. You've got Charlie Sheen, Rosie, and Willie. Wow, I'm impressed!
Towering intellects all!
Two with drug and alcohol addictions that have fried their brains, and another with emotional and maturity problems that cloud her judgment.
This is supposed to impress us with the intellectual prowess of the twoof movement?
:dl:
Dude, don't you ever stop to think about anything? Or is it "ready, fire, aim" all the time?

[defaultdotxbe]

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.
yeah, who needs a degree in structural engineering when you have common sense

[dudalb]

Samuel Clemens participated in one small skirmish in the Civil War and then left.

See his "History Of A Campaign That Failed" for details.
I am so tired of the Truthers bringing up the "Patriot" Red Herring time and time again.
Clemens would be like another writer exploited by the Truthers,George Orwell: If Alive today,both would be among the first to laugh at the craziness of The Twoofers.

[RedIbis]

Samuel Clemens participated in one small skirmish in the Civil War and then left.

Then that's one more skirmish than George Bush, the Commander in Chief on 9/11.

[dudalb]

Yeah, let's see. You've got Charlie Sheen, Rosie, and Willie. Wow, I'm impressed!
Towering intellects all!
Two with drug and alcohol addictions that have fried their brains, and another with emotional and maturity problems that cloud her judgment.
This is supposed to impress us with the intellectual prowess of the twoof movement?
:dl:
Dude, don't you ever stop to think about anything? Or is it "ready, fire, aim" all the time?

All they need is Tom Cruise and Britney Spears to complete the collection.
And they might get Tom. He has been speaking of a "Government Coverup" at the WTC site .
That would be too perfect,though.

[RedIbis]

yeah, who needs a degree in structural engineering when you have common sense

That's one part of it.

[JimBenArm]

See his "History Of A Campaign That Failed" for details.
I am so tired of the Truthers bringing up the "Patriot" Red Herring time and time again.
Clemens would be like another writer exploited by the Truthers,George Orwell: If Alive today,both would be among the first to laugh at the craziness of The Twoofers.
And don't you ever notice that the ones that post these quotes are the ones who cower in fear behind their keyboards, having never done anything in their lives more dangerous than crossing a street?
Yet, we're the ones who lack courage. Funny how that works, isn't it?

[Unsecured Coins]

Then that's one more skirmish than George Bush, the Commander in Chief on 9/11.


well damn. I guess it WAS an inside job after all. :rolleyes:

[dudalb]

Then that's one more skirmish than George Bush, the Commander in Chief on 9/11.

Which is of course totally irrevelent.
But Spin on.

[dudalb]

That's one part of it.

Wow.Just Wow.

[Drs_Res]

And why would I give a flying fig what Willie Nelson thinks?

[RedIbis]

You guys must not know your Willie Nelson catalog or certainly someone would remind us that he wrote the great Patsy Cline hit, "Crazy."

And do you think it's a coincidence that it was "Patsy" Cline? That's a joke, not a consipiracy theory.

[DavidJames]

And why would I give a flying fig what Willie Nelson thinks?
Yes Red, why should anyone care what someone who bases their opinion of 9/11 on what they saw on TV?

[Unsecured Coins]

You guys must not know your Willie Nelson catalog or certainly someone would remind us that he wrote the great Patsy Cline hit, "Crazy".


Sorry. I was listening to Pantera.

[RedIbis]

Sorry. I was listening to Pantera.

I'm sorry to hear that. Actually, I watched a doc on Pantera and Dimebag Darrel(?). It was quite interesting. Just not a big fan of heavy metal.

[boloboffin]

I met Willie once. I doubt he remembers me. He pretty much stayed in the golf cart and let his personal assistant get everything he needed. Willie, you see, was stoned out of his gourd. Good on him. Willie should have a constitutional amendment allowing him to be as stoned as he wants to be.

I have no trouble reconciling my admiration for his prodigious, life-enhancing musical talents and his expression of wooish beliefs. On this subject, he's wrong.

[Hyperviolet]

Big deal. He doesn't understand the collapses, that's not uncommon.
Fame alone will never make him an authority on the subject.

[Alt+F4]

Then that's one more skirmish than George Bush, the Commander in Chief on 9/11.

I'm unaware there were skirmishes on 9/11. Unlike Willie I was in NYC on 9/11. Please do elaborate. Thanks in advance.

[Jonnyclueless]

Who needs architects and engineers when you have actors and singer/songwriters?

Just wait until Britney Spears comes out about 9/11 being an inside job. Game over then.

[RedIbis]

I'm unaware there were skirmishes on 9/11. Please do elaborate. Thanks in advance.

Allow me to clarify: in his "military" career.

[JimBenArm]

Allow me to clarify: in his "military" career.
Gee, why do I have the feeling it was so much more than yours was?

[Alt+F4]

Allow me to clarify: in his "military" career.

Ok then, Bill Clinton too.

And in the interest of full disclosure:

Votes for Bill Clinton by me - 2
Votes for George Bush by me - 0

[Mr. Skinny]

I like Willie Nelson. Seems like a decent fellow for the most part. I don't hold his pot smoking against him.

Don't know how "well read" he is, cause I'm unaware of his educational background.

I also don't totally disagree that the collapse of the Twin Towers does resemble a controlled demolition in some respects, i.e. once the collapse started, gravity finished the job.

That said, unless Willie has some expertise in engineering/structures/etc. that I'm unaware of, it's just another opinion.

I am, however, in awe of someone that someone can play an acoustic guitar so much that he wears a hole in the guitar face.

[beachnut]

Before you disparage this great American, remember that he lives what is best about independent minded American country music. He's beholden to no one. And he's one hell of a songwriter.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2008/020408_towers_imploded.htm

Straight talking American icon Willie Nelson today told a national radio show that he thought the twin towers were imploded like condemned Las Vegas casino buildings, as the country music superstar forcefully voiced his doubts about the official 9/11 story.

Agreeing with host Alex Jones that he questioned the official story, Nelson elaborated, "I saw those towers fall and I've seen an implosion in Las Vegas - there's too much similarities between the two, and I saw a building fall that didn't get hit by nothing," added Nelson, referring to WTC Building 7 which collapsed in the late afternoon of September 11.

"How naive are we - what do they think we'll go for?," asked Nelson, pointing out that his doubts began on the very day of 9/11.

"I saw one fall and it was just so symmetrical, I said wait a minute I just saw that last week at the casino in Las Vegas and you see these implosions all the time and the next one fell and I said hell there's another one - and they're trying to tell me that an airplane did it and I can't go along with that," said Nelson.
Nut case ideas are for everyone; what did Willie do to save us? Going nuts is not a good idea. Alex Jones says it all. What a pair of nuts on 9/11. As long as he does not start singing "On the Thermite again". Just because he is too dumb to know 9/11 truth is nuts too, who cares. Also too dumb to avoid steroid nut man Alex Jones.

Red Ibis, the truth movement does not gain credibility with Willie. It only hurts Willie. 9/11 truth is at the bottom, and going down.

Not surprised, got any more nuts you want to expose? I will try to keep his idiot ideas on 9/11 from his performance in the future, but I am not surprised he is nuts on 9/11, it has not harmed his performance yet, has it?

I'm shocked that someone here would bring up his weed smoking, but you should also know he's a very intelligent and well read man.Now that is a dumb statement to make. If Willie was well read he would not be truth nut case on 9/11. What is he well read on?

[BenBurch]

Love Willie to death. But he's a Musician, not an engineer, so you can put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Red Ibis.

I thought you were smarter than to use "Appeal to Authority" so ineptly.

[MIKILLINI]

You guys must not know your Willie Nelson catalog or certainly someone would remind us that he wrote the great Patsy Cline hit, "Crazy."

And do you think it's a coincidence that it was "Patsy" Cline? That's a joke, not a consipiracy theory.

On that note; If a lawyer can be disbarred can a musician be denoted?

[MIKILLINI]

Ok then, Bill Clinton too.

And in the interest of full disclosure:

Votes for Bill Clinton by me - 2
Votes for George Bush by me - 0

If you vote for Hillary, that makes another Clinton with no military experience.

[RedIbis]

Love Willie to death. But he's a Musician, not an engineer, so you can put THAT in your pipe and smoke it, Red Ibis.

I thought you were smarter than to use "Appeal to Authority" so ineptly.

I was just adding another name to the Woo list. Isn't that what you do around here?

[Alt+F4]

If you vote for Hillary, that makes another Clinton with no military experience.

Well I voted for Hillary twice as well.

[Unsecured Coins]

Well I voted for Hillary twice as well.


*disowns you*

[Mr. Skinny]

On that note; If a lawyer can be disbarred can a musician be denoted?
I hope you're not trying to say you don't like that song...especially by Patsy...cause that's just wrong.

[Alt+F4]

*disowns you*

Yeah, like you would have voted for Rick Lazio :)

[mortimer]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."

So you think Willie Nelson is a patriot because he thinks that WTC 1,2, and 7 were controlled demolitions?

[RedIbis]

So you think Willie Nelson is a patriot because he thinks that WTC 1,2, and 7 were controlled demolitions?

I think he's a patriot because he speaks his mind, knowing full well that his perspective will be met with hostility.

[mortimer]

I think he's a patriot because he speaks his mind, knowing full well that his perspective will be met with hostility.

I've spoken my mind about 9/11 and been met with hostility. Am I a patriot too? Is Gravy a patriot?

[BenBurch]

I was just adding another name to the Woo list. Isn't that what you do around here?

No, what we do around here, since you seem to not have figured that out in all this time, is to test statements people make against verifiable reality - We are as happy to find out that people are right as that they are wrong.

We'd all love, for example, for a Bigfoot to be found as roadkill somewhere (as that is the most likely means of proof) because that would be just an amazing discovery.

I, personally, would love to have actual proof that 9/11 is an inside job because then we could impeach King George II, and then indict, convict, and punish him; Sadly, though, the evidence to date rules that totally out. :(

And I am so sorry for Willie that he has been led astray by the earnest representations of evil people.

[MIKILLINI]

I hope you're not trying to say you don't like that song...especially by Patsy...cause that's just wrong.

Not at all...I'm talking about Willie not doing research to back his claims...He is passing judgment on 9/11 images with a previous experience of battle with the IRS.

[Jonnyclueless]

SO the definition of a patriot is someone who speaks their mind, and the definition of someone who speaks their mind is someone who declares they think 9/11 was an inside job.

I guess many members of the KKK are true patriots by Red's definition.

[MIKILLINI]

Well I voted for Hillary twice as well.

All that does is make you a Democrat supporter...or it means there isn't anybody on the Republican side you feel can do a decent job.

[Anti-sophist]

Willie Nelson's opinion on 9/11 is almost as authoritative as Tom Cruise's on psychiatry.

[dirtywick]

I also don't totally disagree that the collapse of the Twin Towers does resemble a controlled demolition in some respects, i.e. once the collapse started, gravity finished the job.


I agree with this.

But where Willie messed up, just like the rest of them, is because he saw a CD in Vegas, and goes "Gee, that looked a lot like the WTC..." No ****, dummy. What was it supposed to look like? A vortex like in Poltergeist? It's supposed to fall up?

Just because the two events looked similar doesn't mean the causes for the events were the same. Unless the guy is continually confusing an Almond Joy with a dog turd.

[Unsecured Coins]

Yeah, like you would have voted for Rick Lazio :)

MAYBE :p

[OldTigerCub]

I have to echo the sentiments of many here in that I have a great deal of respect for Willie Nelson as musician and performer. That said, high profile celebrities have ample opportunity to speak their minds and be heard by large numbers of people, and in many cases their opinions may have some validity and result in positive social change. Willie's work with Farm Aid and other charities as well as his endeavors and investment in alternate fuels such as "Bio-Willie" brand diesel fuel are good examples of such activism and are very commendable. As he is a musician however, and has no training or expertise regarding structural engineering or accident investigation his opinion and statements regarding the collapse of the WTC buildings are irrelevant.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many.


I guess we should all join Scientology, too. Lots of celebrities are jumping on that boat... :rolleyes:

[bje]

I'm sure you'll disagree, but I think you're going to put a lot of mainstream celebrities and other high profile people into your kook column. I'm reminded of a particularly apt Mark Twain quote:

"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."


You're not the first Twoofer to confuse "patriotism" with "forensic science."

[LastChild]

Who needs architects and engineers when you have actors and singer/songwriters?

Just wait until Britney Spears comes out about 9/11 being an inside job. Game over then.

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have. Or maybe some frauds like Jim Meigs.

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

CgFazvzZcz0

I think she was committed recently. You ever worry about that?

[defaultdotxbe]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have.
so now charlie sheen, rosie odonnell and willie nelson arent convincing enough?

geez make up your mind people

[Pardalis]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have. Or maybe some frauds like Jim Meigs.

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

CgFazvzZcz0

I think she was committed recently. You ever worry about that?

Shut up.

[mortimer]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have. Or maybe some frauds like Jim Meigs.

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

CgFazvzZcz0

I think she was committed recently. You ever worry about that?

Nobody is appealing to Britney or Penn and Teller as experts on structural engineering but you. Maybe unlike you truthers, we are more concerned with the actual evidence and science behind an event rather than what some bonehead celebrity thinks. Hmmm?

[OldTigerCub]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have. Or maybe some frauds like Jim Meigs.

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

CgFazvzZcz0

I think she was committed recently. You ever worry about that?

Twoofers have plenty of frauds already. Why would they need any more?:boggled:
(bolding mine)

[parky76]

Willy seems to be a smart man. He just need to see the right info. He'll come around.

[BenBurch]

Wow I wish I were as much of a has-been as Penn Jillette, he's worth over a hundred million dollars!

[Elizabeth I]

If Willie is indeed a "truther" then I at least give him credit for not paying federal income tax all those years. How could anyone who believes that 9/11 was an inside job done by the federal government continue to pay taxes to those murderers? I don't get it.

It's too bad he didn't think of that as a defense in time.

[Jonnyclueless]

Can someone point to how many posts on JREF point to proof of there not being an inside job based on what a celebrity said?

[DavidJames]

I think he's a patriot because he speaks his mind, knowing full well that his perspective will be met with hostility.I think you're confusing hostility with belly shaking laughter.

[pomeroo]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have. Or maybe some frauds like Jim Meigs.

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

CgFazvzZcz0

I think she was committed recently. You ever worry about that?



It worries me far more that you're still running loose. Did you remember to wear panties today?

[Unsecured Coins]

Did you remember to wear panties today?


Oh sh.... is it Monday already?

[Gravy]

Willie Nelson? I trust him with all my engineering needs. Why, it seems it was only yesterday when he supervised my barn raising...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879047a7e5d75afad.jpg

[Unsecured Coins]

Willie Nelson? I trust him with all my engineering needs. Why, it seems it was only yesterday when he supervised my barn raising...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879047a7e5d75afad.jpg

that'll buff out, right?

[R.Mackey]

I'm sorry, I really don't care what Willie Nelson has to say about Sept. 11th. Even if we overlook the fact that he is to science what I am to Chinese art history, he's never exactly shown much rational behavior with respect to the government.

Now, if you could get Ozzy to sign on with teh Troof... that might get my attention. :D

Or any other wacky entertainer for that matter. Honestly, who cares?

Is this the best the Truth Movement can do? I'm asking seriously.

[Gravy]

Is this the best the Truth Movement can do? I'm asking seriously.Gravy raises hand.

[R.Mackey]

A hand, eh? Hmm, pretty big pot... I'll call.



Oh, by the way, has Willie joined Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth yet? I'll bet the guy worked construction at some point in his life.

[OldTigerCub]

Willie Nelson? I trust him with all my engineering needs. Why, it seems it was only yesterday when he supervised my barn raising...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879047a7e5d75afad.jpg

Pssssst....I think you meant barn razing:p

[Brainache]

Willie Nelson wow! Can't be too long now til Noam Chomsky jumps on board.

[Open Blinded]

Not much here but if you want to listen to the interview with Willie here it is.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CnWRrH5t_H0

Click on the posters username to watch the rest of the series.

[Dave Rogers]

It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.

I'm a physicist, and I work every day with things that are contrary to common sense. Common sense is the horse and cart, because everybody knows Man would suffocate at speeds over 30mph. Common sense is typhus and cholera, because everybody knows that illness is spread through the air by the miasma. Common sense is famine and drought, because everybody knows the gods control the weather. Common sense is tyranny, because everybody knows the strong will always rule over the weak. The stories that are so obviously contrary to common sense are the stories that give us science, medicine, democracy and prosperity, because we believe that men can be more than animals. If you can't see past your own narrow, blinkered common sense, then you're not on that train.

Dave

[SezMe]

that'll buff out, right?
:D Gave me my daily dose of chuckle.

[tsig]

Then that's one more skirmish than George Bush, the Commander in Chief on 9/11.

I think the Civil War was over with by then.

[tsig]

A hand, eh? Hmm, pretty big pot... I'll call.



Oh, by the way, has Willie joined Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth yet? I'll bet the guy worked construction at some point in his life.

If Willie is near it it will go up in smoke.

Didn't know you needed any qualifications to join A&E for Truth911.

[WildCat]

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.
Oh, are we done "just asking questions" now Red? :rolleyes:

[RedIbis]

Willie Nelson? I trust him with all my engineering needs. Why, it seems it was only yesterday when he supervised my barn raising...

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/879047a7e5d75afad.jpg

But we should trust a tour guide?

[JimBenArm]

But we should trust a tour guide?
Should we trust an internet coward?

[Pardalis]

But we should trust a tour guide?

His research speaks for itself.

[WildCat]

But we should trust a tour guide?
You posted this thread, and your OP can be summarized as "Willie Nelson thinks it looked like a CD, take that!".

Can you find a post by anyone here that claimed it wasn't a CD because Gravy said so? :rolleyes:

Of course you can't, because that's just a straw man you built in your pathetic attempt to do whatever you think you're doing here.

[RedIbis]

Should we trust an internet coward?

Why do you feel the need to personalize the discussion?

[JimBenArm]

Why do you feel the need to personalize the discussion?
Because I love you so.

[RedIbis]

You posted this thread, and your OP can be summarized as "Willie Nelson thinks it looked like a CD, take that!".

Can you find a post by anyone here that claimed it wasn't a CD because Gravy said so? :rolleyes:

Of course you can't, because that's just a straw man you built in your pathetic attempt to do whatever you think you're doing here.

Did I say that Willie's opinion confirms a CD? No.

[Dave Rogers]

Before you disparage this great American, remember that he lives what is best about independent minded American country music. He's beholden to no one. And he's one hell of a songwriter.

OK, I've remembered all that. Can I disparage him now?

Dave

[WildCat]

Did I say that Willie's opinion confirms a CD? No.
You think it's important enough to start a thread over, and then say:

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.
No more "just asking questions", right Red?

[RedIbis]

OK, I've remembered all that. Can I disparage him now?

Dave

It's inevitable.

[Dave Rogers]

It's inevitable.

Hey, I'm just following the instructions in your OP.

Dave

[slyjoe]

I'm a physicist, and I work every day with things that are contrary to common sense. Common sense is the horse and cart, because everybody knows Man would suffocate at speeds over 30mph. Common sense is typhus and cholera, because everybody knows that illness is spread through the air by the miasma. Common sense is famine and drought, because everybody knows the gods control the weather. Common sense is tyranny, because everybody knows the strong will always rule over the weak. The stories that are so obviously contrary to common sense are the stories that give us science, medicine, democracy and prosperity, because we believe that men can be more than animals. If you can't see past your own narrow, blinkered common sense, then you're not on that train.

Dave

Nominated. Short, sweet and to the point. Nice post Dave. :)

[beachnut]

Before you disparage this great American, remember that he lives what is best about independent minded American country music. He's beholden to no one. And he's one hell of a songwriter.

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/february2008/020408_towers_imploded.htm

Straight talking American icon Willie Nelson today told a national radio show that he thought the twin towers were imploded like condemned Las Vegas casino buildings, as the country music superstar forcefully voiced his doubts about the official 9/11 story.

Agreeing with host Alex Jones that he questioned the official story, Nelson elaborated, "I saw those towers fall and I've seen an implosion in Las Vegas - there's too much similarities between the two, and I saw a building fall that didn't get hit by nothing," added Nelson, referring to WTC Building 7 which collapsed in the late afternoon of September 11.

"How naive are we - what do they think we'll go for?," asked Nelson, pointing out that his doubts began on the very day of 9/11.

"I saw one fall and it was just so symmetrical, I said wait a minute I just saw that last week at the casino in Las Vegas and you see these implosions all the time and the next one fell and I said hell there's another one - and they're trying to tell me that an airplane did it and I can't go along with that," said Nelson.
You disparaged Willie by exposing him as mindless truther (on 9/11).
Before you disparage this great American, remember that he lives what is best about independent minded American country music. He's beholden to no one. And he's one hell of a songwriter. On an event Willie has failed to use knowledge and exposes himself as not smart for two reasons. He was on an Alex Jones show, not a smart idea since Alex Jones is not credible and acts as if he has mental problems and has junk ideas on 9/11. And Willie has no clue about 9/11, just standard bs from a lack of knowledge. You only expose ignorance of many.

The best part of this OP is you going to Alex Jones to expose Willie. Alex Jones? Your source is pure nuts and you have shown one more example of a person unable to make rational conclusion on 9/11. What is wrong with you, Willie and 9/11 truth; why are you guys so void of knowledge on the broad range of 9/11 topics and why do you rely on the false, failing thoughts of others?

[DavidJames]

Nominated. Short, sweet and to the point. Nice post Dave. :)I agree, but not surprisingly completely ignored by the target. Hopefully it scored a direct hit on inquisitive lurkers.

[Spins]

Ah so Willie Nelson's opinion on 9/11 now trumps all the evidence.

I wonder who's going to be the next "Z" lister to join the 9/11 woo woo train, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin maybe?

"9/11 was an inside job … and that's the bottomline, 'cause Stone Cold said so!"

[CurtC]

On that note; If a lawyer can be disbarred can a musician be denoted?

Yes, and magicians can be disenchanted.

[beachnut]

I'm a physicist, and I work every day with things that are contrary to common sense. Common sense is the horse and cart, because everybody knows Man would suffocate at speeds over 30mph. Common sense is typhus and cholera, because everybody knows that illness is spread through the air by the miasma. Common sense is famine and drought, because everybody knows the gods control the weather. Common sense is tyranny, because everybody knows the strong will always rule over the weak. The stories that are so obviously contrary to common sense are the stories that give us science, medicine, democracy and prosperity, because we believe that men can be more than animals. If you can't see past your own narrow, blinkered common sense, then you're not on that train.

Dave How do people confuse their ignorance on a topic for common sense. Willie Nelson OP effectively shows how ordinary people are a tad smarter than a singer who has had problems and a lot of us like. I will give Willie a pass as long as he only says stupid stuff when he is with stupid people like Alex Jones and 9/11 truth experts. Is Red Ibis a 9/11 truth expert? Red Ibis never takes a stand on 9/11 issues; if in the truth movement it is not the action side.

[Stellafane]

Willie Nelson. Willie Nelson! Great musician, but the endorsement of an old stoner helps your argument....how?

Of course, no amount of common sense will even deter people like RedIbis from repeating their brave pronouncements, made with the kind of confident smugness that only the truly clueless can muster. Facts? Evidence? All totally irrelevant; if they merely think something, that's plenty good enough for them, by God. I swear, if you got close enough to someone like that, you could probably actually hear them think. And it would sound like this:

Doink...doink...doink...

[~enigma~]

Ok, this made me laugh, but Willie is one of many. It's difficult over time to perpetuate a story that is so obviously contrary to common sense.
What more proof do we need that this guy never picked up a science textbook. Ok brightguy, what part of Quantum Mechanics makes sense? Is it barrier tunneling??

[~enigma~]

All they need is Tom Cruise
he's still in the closet. Better call R. Kelly.

[Tweeter]

Good for Willie. Another guy that took five minutes to find the truth for himself.

[VespaGuy]

Maybe Truthers should get a couple of has been magicians like Penn and Teller on their side like the debunkers have.

As others have already said, it's not a matter of which celebrities are on which "side". It's about evidence.

With that said, I'm still trying to figure out how Penn and Teller are "has beens". Is it there six night a week sell-out Vegas show? Their current cable show? Penn's game-show hosting stint last year? The books they write?

I always thought a has-been meant someone who was once really popular, but isn't anymore. I'd argue that Penn & Teller are probably the most popular that they've ever been.

But, LastChild had to come up with some sort of insult. (It must really bother him that even popular, visible Libertarians understand that 9/11 conspiricies are a crock.)

[dudalb]

Willie Nelson's opinion on 9/11 is almost as authoritative as Tom Cruise's on psychiatry.

You win the thread.

[sts60]

I think he's a patriot because he speaks his mind, knowing full well that his perspective will be met with hostility.
Spouting uninformed nonsense - regardless of the anticipated reaction - does not make one a patriot. Such claims do a disservice to the Republic by distracting us from the real problems we face. So, no, I'm not at all impressed by his "patriotism" in promoting ignorance and paranoia - quite the opposite.

I love Willie Nelson's music, but he's without a clue here. More generally speaking, why should I give a rat's a** about what he thinks about 9/11, or what any other entertainer thinks about it, or for that matter what they think about nuclear energy or the Moon landings or the claims of L. Ron Hubbard?

[Billdave2]

Wait, before we dismiss Willie Nelson's understanding of physics and structural engineering, I think we need to determine if he stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the night before.:)

[Jonnyclueless]

I'd be interested to see Willie's calculations.

[1337m4n]

Hey RedIbis, look what celebrity WE'VE got on our side:

vWFlsIlj5_I

Oh yeah, baby. How you like that?

If this is a contest of celebrity support, we're winning because Dennis has the awesomeness of 10 normal celebrities.

[Gravy]

I'd be interested to see Willie's calculations.

http://911links.googlepages.com/MathProblem4.jpg

http://911links.googlepages.com/Mathproblem3.jpg

http://911links.googlepages.com/Mathproblem2.jpg

http://911links.googlepages.com/mathproblemelephant.jpg

[HawksFan]

I think we really won't have this whole issue decided until we hear what Gene Simmons has to say about 9/11. :D

[dudalb]

I'm waiting for Wierd Al Yankovic to chime in.

[CHF]

Twoofers might be short on structural engineers but I'm sure Willy Nelson is worth 5 of them at least. :rolleyes:

[CHF]

Good for Willie. Another guy that took five minutes to find the truth for himself.

Twoofers spend five minutes doing research?

Yeah that sounds about right.

[dudalb]

Twoofers spend five minutes doing research?

Yeah that sounds about right.

Tweeter walked right into that one,did'nt he?

[SezMe]

But we should trust a tour guide?

Why do you feel the need to personalize the discussion?
Pot. Kettle.

Red, I don't care if Gravy ran a porn shop by day and bootlegged booze at night *, his work - as others have noted - stands by itself and has stood the test of time.









* OK, maybe I would. :) :)

[slyjoe]

...snip

"I saw one fall and it was just so symmetrical, I said wait a minute I just saw that last week at the casino in Las Vegas and you see these implosions all the time and the next one fell and I said hell there's another one - and they're trying to tell me that an airplane did it and I can't go along with that," said Nelson.

Did anyone bother to ask Willie which casino he saw imploded last week?

[Gravy]

Did anyone bother to ask Willie which casino he saw imploded last week?He was speaking about 2001.

[slyjoe]

He was speaking about 2001.

OK, did anyone ask him which one exploded the week before 9/11/2001?

[Alt+F4]

BTW Britney Spears supports the President and whatever he says. She's faithful just Just like you.

Just how many Presidental elections have you voted in?

[JimBenArm]

I'm waiting for Wierd Al Yankovic to chime in.
He did!

"Dare to Be Stupid".

Oh yeah. I went there.

[MIKILLINI]

Good for Willie. Another guy that took five minutes to find the truth for himself.

And what actual truth would that be?

[defaultdotxbe]

* OK, maybe I would. :) :)
i wouldnt as long as he shared both

[MIKILLINI]

He did!

"Dare to Be Stupid".

Oh yeah. I went there.

Mashed potatoes can be friends of twoofers.:D

[JimBenArm]

Mashed potatoes can be friends of twoofers.:D
Put your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan!

[MIKILLINI]

But we should trust a tour guide?

Well Red, what does Gravy's research tell you? Compare it to the twoofers research.
Whose research is more thorough with evidence to prove it's viability?

[MIKILLINI]

Put your head in the microwave and get yourself a tan!

Watch reruns of Leave it To Beaver, it's up to you.

:dl:

Hmm...Why do I like this song?:D

[MetalliSociety]

Yes, lets listen to the biggest stoner in American history. Surely his reefer knowledge boils over into engineering.

[WildCat]

OK, did anyone ask him which one exploded the week before 9/11/2001?
The only Vegas casino imploded in 2001 was the Augusta Tower (part of the Desert Inn) but that didn't happen until October 31. Prior to that, the last one imploded was the El Rancho in 1998.

[slyjoe]

Hmm - I thought Desert Inn was October 23, 2001 and El Rancho was Oct 3, 2000???

My real point was that Willie doesn't seem to know when or how a lot of stuff is happening.

[WildCat]

Hmm - I thought Desert Inn was October 23, 2001 and El Rancho was Oct 3, 2000???
D'oh! I was confusing the El Rancho with the Aladdin. :blush: But according to this page (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/desert.htm) the Augusta Tower was imploded on October 31, 2001.

My real point was that Willie doesn't seem to know when or how a lot of stuff is happening.
Hey, you smoke fattys for 60 years and see how your memory is!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

But we should trust a tour guide?
Why do you feel the need to personalize the discussion?


Good question there, RedIbis.

Did I say that Willie's opinion confirms a CD? No.


Well, WildCat didn't say that you said it, so... what's with the strawman?

The difference with truthers and celebrity support and debunkers and celebrity support is that we at least present "our" celebrities' opinions as entertainment. Truthers seem to think a celebrity's ignorant opinion on, say, the collapses somehow counts for more than an engineer's educated opinion.

[slyjoe]

D'oh! I was confusing the El Rancho with the Aladdin. :blush: But according to this page (http://www.vegastodayandtomorrow.com/desert.htm) the Augusta Tower was imploded on October 31, 2001.

A perfect example of the problem with internet research:

http://www.vegas.com/lounge/implosions.html


Hey, you smoke fattys for 60 years and see how your memory is!

Agreed - I don't think I'll find out :) but if I do I won't remem....what?

[dudalb]

Good question there, RedIbis.




Well, WildCat didn't say that you said it, so... what's with the strawman?

The difference with truthers and celebrity support and debunkers and celebrity support is that we at least present "our" celebrities' opinions as entertainment. Truthers seem to think a celebrity's ignorant opinion on, say, the collapses somehow counts for more than an engineer's educated opinion.


We debunkers are also willing to face reality when a celeb whose work we have enjoyed has gone off the deep end.
For example, I think that Neal Adams is probably (except for Bob Kane) the best Batman artist ever,but also think he is making a total fool of himself with his nutty,batcrap crazy theories about The Earth being Hollow.

[Btodd]

I can't wait until Tom Cruise goes Truther.

[Jonnyclueless]

I can't wait until Tom Cruise goes Truther.


He has his own Woo to sell. Woo that even twoofers don't wanna touch.

[Jonnyclueless]

Yes, lets listen to the biggest stoner in American history. Surely his reefer knowledge boils over into engineering.

Without pot the truth movement would come to a grinding halt. And maybe the Grateful Dead movement.

[Btodd]

He has his own Woo to sell. Woo that even twoofers don't wanna touch.

That's why I can't wait. So far, they are desperate enough to prop up any celebrity to promote their fantasies. Just the irony of them having to decide whether to prop up Tom Cruise or not would be delicious.

Charlie Sheen? Absolutely. Tom Cruise? Hmmmm, give us a minute.:D

[Sultanist]

And believes in the Bilderbergers and the whole nine yards. And also says...

"It's a long time until election day and some sort of national crisis could put off the elections, and we could have George Bush in there ten years longer".
Here's the interview Alex Jones did with Willie this past Monday...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1en0rUx_s0

[Gravy]

Hi, Sultanist.
There's an existing thread about Willie here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=105510). I hadn't seen the "ten years longer" quote. How sad.

[8den]

Get back to me when Kenny Rogers goes woo.

[cisco]

And I liked Willie. I even read his stupid book because I thought he was cool.

By the way, do we get to hear "he's gonna declare martial law and suspend elections!" every 4 years now? It was rampant at the end of Clinton's term, and I imagine it'll be as bad or worse this year.

[iAmerican]

Willie Nelson wow! Can't be too long now til Noam Chomsky jumps on board.
Chomsky sides with the ruling false-elite as a "court dissident." His stated belief that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John Kennedy, despite the publicly available documents that prove the guilt of Nixon, Bush1 and the Knight of Malta-led Roman Catholic CIA, puts him on the side of Bush2's apologists for 9-11-treason, with the blood of the innocent victims of 9-11 and the false war in the Middle East on their hands, now scoffing at patriot Willie Nelson.

[funk de fino]

Anybody else despise ignorant bigots?

[Walter Ego]

Chomsky sides with the ruling false-elite as a "court dissident." His stated belief that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John Kennedy, despite the publicly available documents that prove the guilt of Nixon, Bush1 and the Knight of Malta-led Roman Catholic CIA, puts him on the side of Bush2's apologists for 9-11-treason, with the blood of the innocent victims of 9-11 and the false war in the Middle East on their hands, now scoffing at patriot Willie Nelson.


Maybe his just doesn’t want to upset the market share that buys his books and pays his lecture fees by dispensing woo or, or likely, he just thinks the CT people are nuts.


Where Noam will not roam:
Chomsky manufactures consent,
supports the official stories of 9/11 and JFK


"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum."
- Noam Chomsky

"That's an internet theory and it's hopelessly implausible. Hopelessly implausible. So hopelessly implausible I don't see any point in talking about it."
- Noam Chomsky, at a FAIR event at New York's Town Hall, 22 January 2002, in response to a question from the audience about US government foreknowledge of 9/11. At that time, 9/11 investigators had already presented substantial documented evidence for: prior warnings, Air Force stand-down, anomalous insider trading connected to CIA, cover-up of the domestic anthrax attacks, inconsistencies in identities & timelines of "hijackers", US connections to al Qaeda in Balkans, a Pak ISI-al Qaeda funding connection, etc etc etc.

Professor Noam Chomsky, one of the country's most famous dissidents, says that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone gunman in Dallas. Anyone who still supports the Warren Commission hoax after forty years of countering proofs is either ill-informed, dumb, gullible, afraid to speak truths to power or a disinformation agent.

The Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), where Chomsky has worked for decades, has a very good physics department (MIT is the largest university contractor to the military). Perhaps he could visit them and learn why it is physically impossible for Oswald to have been anything more than the "patsy" that he (accurately) claimed to be.

The truth is that Chomsky is very good in his analysis within certain parameters of limited debate -- but in understanding the "deep politics" of the actual, secret government, his analysis falls short.

Chomsky is good at explaining the double standards in US foreign policies - but at this point understanding / exposing the mechanics of the deceptions (9/11 isn't the only one) the reasons for it (Peak Oil / global dominance / domestic fascism) and what we can do (war crimes trials / permaculture to relocalize food production / paradigm shifts) is more important than more repetition from Chomsky.

Professor Chomsky was apparently part of a study group in the late 1960s that was investigating what really happened in Dallas (ie. he was a skeptic of the official story). It seems likely that Chomsky did indeed figure out what happened - and decided that this was too big of an issue to confront.

Maybe Chomsky gets more media attention these days than most other dissidents BECAUSE he urges people not to inquire into how the secret government operates.

http://www.oilempire.us/chomsky.html

[dudalb]

I am no fan of Chomsky ( his continued defense of the Pol Pot regime alone is enough to put him down as a unreliable source in my book) but to call him a Government Disinfo agent is drop dead funny.

[Walter Ego]

I am no fan of Chomsky ( his continued defense of the Pol Pot regime alone is enough to put him down as a unreliable source in my book) but to call him a Government Disinfo agent is drop dead funny.


You'd think the truthers would give Chomsky a pass on the JFK issue but not to believe 9-11 was an inside job? That's treason!

Chomsky’s rejection of JFK and 9-11 CTs seems to be based on common sense and, interestingly, an appeal to science (the ‘who cares’ remark at the end of the video is a bit odd, though.)


LoDqDvbgeXM

He gives his opinion on why the attacks happened here (http://www.counterpunch.org/chomskyintv.html). And he has apparently (http://www.muckrakerreport.com/id359.html) joined with the Jersey Girls in calling for the release of classified government documents relating to the 9-11 attacks.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

And like every other troofer out there, Old WIllie LIED his face off about WTC7, saying that it wasn't hit by anything.

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Oh no, their list of credible supporters just keeps increasing. :scared:

[rwguinn]

And like every other troofer out there, Old WIllie LIED his face off about WTC7, saying that it wasn't hit by anything.
Remember.
Willie wrote a song "Hello, Walls"
I love the song, but talking to walls, windows, and ceilings is not a mark of reliable sanity...

[antennafarm]

No one ever said that you have to be reasonable to be a celebrity.

Perhaps it's the OPPOSITE to be an 'artist' ("i" pronounce "ee").

[eromitlab]

I kind of thought Willie would buy the woo. After all, he does love to toke up as many tr00thers do. Now, if they can get the endorsement of Waylon Jennings, they've really got something.

[CurtC]

Remember.
Willie wrote a song "Hello, Walls"

And he wrote another song admitting he's "Crazy."

[dudalb]

Hell I'm waiting for Britney Spears to turn Truther.
Nah,that will never happen. That would be too freaking good. I'm not that lucky.

[Jonnyclueless]

Musicians while often very creative minds, aren't nesc the most logical thinkers. In fact its often their lack of logical thinking that makes them so creative and good at what they do.

[cisco]

Now, if they can get the endorsement of Waylon Jennings, they've really got something.

They would qualify for the JREF million dollar prize if they got Waylon to say one word.

[antennafarm]

I'm waiting for Wierd Al Yankovic to chime in.

Of course, the difference is that Weird Al actually studied architecture at California Polytech, soooo...

[Frontrunner91]

Of course we all know:wackyunsure: that Willie got high on the White House Roof with Jimmie Carter. It's not a big leap from Roofer to Troofer.

[jhunter1163]

They would qualify for the JREF million dollar prize if they got Waylon to say one word.

You mean, seeing as he's been dead for several years now?

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I kind of thought Willie would buy the woo. After all, he does love to toke up as many tr00thers do. Now, if they can get the endorsement of Waylon Jennings, they've really got something.

If teh troof muuvment is going to live or die on the say-so of country music, let's see the troofers try to recruit Toby Keith (http://youtube.com/watch?v=cSWuA-RttGU).

Preferably one at a time...

...in a closed rooom...

...with no witnesses. >:)

[eromitlab]

Now, if they can get the endorsement of Waylon Jennings, they've really got something.

They would qualify for the JREF million dollar prize if they got Waylon to say one word.

You mean, seeing as he's been dead for several years now?


I say it jokingly... but then again, Ron Paul got endorsements from the Founding Fathers from beyond the grave, so what's to stop tr00thers from picking up the endorsements of the deceased?

[dudalb]

I say it jokingly... but then again, Ron Paul got endorsements from the Founding Fathers from beyond the grave, so what's to stop tr00thers from picking up the endorsements of the deceased?

Hey,that could be a new business for Sylvia Brown....channeling Endorsements from the beyond.

[BenBurch]

Its got nothing to do with toking up. Sheesh.

He's been fed bad information by earnest people who can lie without revealing a trace of it; Pure sociopaths.

And yeah, he distrusts the Bush Goons. So do I; if Bush decided to terminate the Constitution and stay in office, I would only be slightly amazed, but I don't expect it, and I also expect that the Military would refuse to support him were he foolish enough to try.

What I do expect is that everything they could possibly loot will be looted, and after that what is the point in staying for them? These guys are the very model of a "looter government" as Ayn Rand portrayed in Atlas Shrugged.

[Regnad Kcin]

I'm shocked that someone here would bring up his weed smoking, but you should also know he's a very intelligent and well read man.And 100% wrong about the events of 9/11.

[Regnad Kcin]

But we should trust a tour guide?You're not the first to try to wrest a giggle out of the audience by pointing out Mark's profession. (Frankly, I'm a little embarrassed for you if this is the extent of your comic abilities.) You may believe you're scoring a BIG HIT on his credibility, but it only serves to underline your ignorance. Really, do you have any idea what it takes to be a NYC tour guide?

BTW, what is it you do for a living?

[proxywar]

Did hilary really say we would be in iraq for 100 years? I don't recall her ever saying this.


What is the Bilderberger group? I've never heard of this one before.

I wonder what willy's take is on the IRS and income Tax.lol

Are 75% of the troops against the war?.

LMAO@ if the troops don't do what they are told then they get shot.
Old tymer Willy Nelson seems to think american troops are a vanguard
runned by Stalin lackies.

Note to willy: They signed up, noone drafted them.
And mccain and hilary are against the draft anyway.

Alex jones should take his own advice on tyranny.

[RedIbis]

You're not the first to try to wrest a giggle out of the audience by pointing out Mark's profession. (Frankly, I'm a little embarrassed for you if this is the extent of your comic abilities.) You may believe you're scoring a BIG HIT on his credibility, but it only serves to underline your ignorance. Really, do you have any idea what it takes to be a NYC tour guide?

BTW, what is it you do for a living?


I see this over and over here. Gage isn't qualified because he's only designed bldgs a few stories tall. DRG isn't qualified because he's a theologian, but for some reason Gravy's word is gospel. Explain that to me.

[RedIbis]

And besides, Woo Willie Nelson was a much better title for this thread.

[Dave Rogers]

I see this over and over here. Gage isn't qualified because he's only designed bldgs a few stories tall. DRG isn't qualified because he's a theologian, but for some reason Gravy's word is gospel. Explain that to me.

OK, I'll try. Richard Gage's entire argument might be summed up by the hypothetical position "You should believe me because I'm an architect so I know more about this than you do". Mark Roberts's argument similarly might be represented as "Here is the evidence for what happened, so you can check it for yourself". (Note that neither of the passages above is an actual quote from Richard Gage or Mark Roberts.) Nobody's taking Mark's word as gospel because he isn't asking for it to be so taken. However, Gage is asking that, without justification.

Dave

[RedIbis]

OK, I'll try. Richard Gage's entire argument is "You should believe me because I'm an architect so I know more about this than you do". Mark Roberts's argument is "Here is the evidence for what happened, so you can check it for yourself". Nobody's taking Mark's word as gospel because he isn't asking for it to be so taken. However, Gage is asking that, without justification.

Dave

When you put quotation marks and attribute it to someone, you are suggesting that's what they said. Find the quote, post it or don't use quotation marks.

[Dave Rogers]

When you put quotation marks and attribute it to someone, you are suggesting that's what they said. Find the quote, post it or don't use quotation marks.

OK, I've edited the post to make it clear that the passages I used were not actual quotes from Richard Gage or Mark Roberts. Now that I've done that, do you understand it any better?

Dave

[RedIbis]

OK, I've edited the post to make it clear that the passages I used were not actual quotes from Richard Gage or Mark Roberts. Now that I've done that, do you understand it any better?

Dave

Sure I understand your point, but it's merely opinion. Do you understand my point? When it's convenient to call into question the credentials of Gage, Griffin, et al, all the stops are pulled, but Gravy gets to remind us that he's "just a tour guide" and that his research is not academic so it does not require peer review.

[Dave Rogers]

Sure I understand your point, but it's merely opinion. Do you understand my point? When it's convenient to call into question the credentials of Gage, Griffin, et al, all the stops are pulled, but Gravy gets to remind us that he's "just a tour guide" and that his research is not academic so it does not require peer review.

I understand your point, but I disagree with it. Richard Gage and Steven Jones are particularly prone to making fallacious arguments from authority, and Mark Roberts isn't. Griffin, on the whole, tends not to make arguments from authority either; he relies more on misquotes, misrepresentation and references to demonstrably incorrect sources, which is one reason why his credentials tend not to be discussed as much as Gage or Jones's. In fact, Mark's reminders that he's "just a tour guide", a quote I'm sure you'll post a cite to (as per your own stipulation three posts back) are a very honest way of pointing out that he is not making an appeal to authority, and inviting the reader to check the facts for him/herself. That, in fact, is why Mark's work doesn't really need peer review; it's transparent with respect to sources, so the reader can assess it independently. The same isn't true of a scientific paper, where the author is frequently making a valid appeal to authority; the point of peer review is to access the expertise, on behalf of the casual reader, that can determine that such appeals are in fact valid.

Dave

[Spins]

When you put quotation marks and attribute it to someone, you are suggesting that's what they said. Find the quote, post it or don't use quotation marks.Bloomin' eck Red stop being so pedantic.

[RedIbis]

I understand your point, but I disagree with it. Richard Gage and Steven Jones are particularly prone to making fallacious arguments from authority, and Mark Roberts isn't. Griffin, on the whole, tends not to make arguments from authority either; he relies more on misquotes, misrepresentation and references to demonstrably incorrect sources, which is one reason why his credentials tend not to be discussed as much as Gage or Jones's. In fact, Mark's reminders that he's "just a tour guide", a quote I'm sure you'll post a cite to (as per your own stipulation three posts back) are a very honest way of pointing out that he is not making an appeal to authority, and inviting the reader to check the facts for him/herself. That, in fact, is why Mark's work doesn't really need peer review; it's transparent with respect to sources, so the reader can assess it independently. The same isn't true of a scientific paper, where the author is frequently making a valid appeal to authority; the point of peer review is to access the expertise, on behalf of the casual reader, that can determine that such appeals are in fact valid.

Dave

I appreciate your civil tone but we'll have to disagree.

[Spins]

Sure I understand your point, but it's merely opinion. Do you understand my point? When it's convenient to call into question the credentials of Gage, Griffin, et al, all the stops are pulled, but Gravy gets to remind us that he's "just a tour guide" and that his research is not academic so it does not require peer review.
Many of Griffins ideas about 9/11 are so ridiculously stupid that it comes as no surprise to people to find out he is a Theologian and not a Structural Engineer or Physicist etc, that's the reason his credentials are talked about so much. We are taking the Mick (so to speak).

[Regnad Kcin]

So, RedIbis of the undisclosed profession, you don't know what it takes to be a NYC tour guide then?

[RedIbis]

So, RedIbis of the undisclosed profession, you don't know what it takes to be a NYC tour guide then?

I have zero intention of disclosing anything about my personal life. I don't mind stating in a general way that I was born in NYC and both my brothers still live in that area. I have spent a great deal of time in Manhattan so I absolutely respect the profession of tour guide of that great and complex city.

[iAmerican]

You'd think the truthers would give Chomsky a pass on the JFK issue but not to believe 9-11 was an inside job? That's treason!

Both crimes are treason.

Chomsky’s rejection of JFK and 9-11 CTs seems to be based on common sense and, interestingly, an appeal to science (the ‘who cares’ remark at the end of the video is a bit odd, though.)

In light of the 58,000 American military combatants who died as a direct result of the CIA's "reversal" of NSAM263's Vietnam withdrawal order, under the leadership of Nixon, Bush1, et al; and the 3,000 lives taken by Bush2's 9-11 treason and the tragic losses inflicted on the thousands of soldiers and Marines, and innocent foreigners, Chomsky's stated position - "Even if it were true, who cares?" - is atrocious, patently contemptible and provides prima facie evidence that he, supposedly a highly intelligent person, is actually just a quailing, pathetic opportunist.

Pattern recognition is a gauge of intelligence. Those who take the Ishihara test for colorblindness and are unable to see the "pattern" of the numbers are color blind.

Apparently blind "engineers" and "scientists" (i.e.: anti-liberal arts "geeks") should get out more...and look at the Big Picture.

History is shaped by factions and individuals. That one identifiable faction can inarguably be blamed for the assassinations of America's leaders, the finance of Hitler and the Holcaust, Korea, Vietnam, IranContra, Bush v. Gore, and 9-11 is a "pattern" that is indisputable.

America's Founder, a Whig, saw that pattern unfolding in history and called it "the real Anti-Christ:" same families, same techniques, same pedophilia, same assassins, same apologists. None of it belongs in America. Whigs saw the pattern and created America as bastion of Freedom, Truth, Liberty, and Justice. Those who serve the Anti-Christ are enemy to America and to Humanity.

Tory Oaks across the country await all unredeemable, recalcitrant and incorrigible Tories and the traitors they support. Don't think for a second the American People, apprised of the Fifth Column's treason, will stay the hand of Judgment. It awaits.

Obama as president is but one step to that end.

[Par]

Both crimes are treason.



In light of the 58,000 American military combatants who died as a direct result of the CIA's "reversal" of NSAM263's Vietnam withdrawal order, under the leadership of Nixon, Bush1, et al; and the 3,000 lives taken by Bush2's 9-11 treason and the tragic losses inflicted on the thousands of soldiers and Marines, and innocent foreigners, Chomsky's stated position - "Even if it were true, who cares?" - is atrocious, patently contemptible and provides prima facie evidence that he, supposedly a highly intelligent person, is actually just a quailing, pathetic opportunist.

Pattern recognition is a gauge of intelligence. Those who take the Ishihara test for colorblindness and are unable to see the "pattern" of the numbers are color blind.

Apparently blind "engineers" and "scientists" (i.e.: anti-liberal arts "geeks") should get out more...and look at the Big Picture.

History is shaped by factions and individuals. That one identifiable faction can inarguably be blamed for the assassinations of America's leaders, the finance of Hitler and the Holcaust, Korea, Vietnam, IranContra, Bush v. Gore, and 9-11 is a "pattern" that is indisputable.

America's Founder, a Whig, saw that pattern unfolding in history and called it "the real Anti-Christ:" same families, same techniques, same pedophilia, same assassins, same apologists. None of it belongs in America. Whigs saw the pattern and created America as bastion of Freedom, Truth, Liberty, and Justice. Those who serve the Anti-Christ are enemy to America and to Humanity.

Tory Oaks across the country await all unredeemable, recalcitrant and incorrigible Tories and the traitors they support. Don't think for a second the American People, apprised of the Fifth Column's treason, will stay the hand of Judgment. It awaits.

Obama as president is but one step to that end.


Go Pope!

[CptColumbo]

IIRC When Elvis was asked his opinion about the Vietnam protestors, he replied "I'm just a singer, my opinion shouldn't matter more than anyone else's." That's one of the reasons he's "the King."

[HawksFan]

So, how are those Whig primaries and caucuses going? I haven't heard much about them on the news.

[Regnad Kcin]

I have zero intention of disclosing anything about my personal life.Well, it might be informative with respect to your making an issue out of Mark's. But fine.

I don't mind stating in a general way that I was born in NYC and both my brothers still live in that area. I have spent a great deal of time in Manhattan so I absolutely respect the profession of tour guide of that great and complex city.So why do you attempt to make it a pejorative?

[Regnad Kcin]

Both crimes are treason.

In light of the 58,000 American military combatants who died as a direct result of the CIA's "reversal" of NSAM263's Vietnam withdrawal order, under the leadership of Nixon, Bush1, et al; and the 3,000 lives taken by Bush2's 9-11 treason and the tragic losses inflicted on the thousands of soldiers and Marines, and innocent foreigners, Chomsky's stated position - "Even if it were true, who cares?" - is atrocious, patently contemptible and provides prima facie evidence that he, supposedly a highly intelligent person, is actually just a quailing, pathetic opportunist.

Pattern recognition is a gauge of intelligence. Those who take the Ishihara test for colorblindness and are unable to see the "pattern" of the numbers are color blind.

Apparently blind "engineers" and "scientists" (i.e.: anti-liberal arts "geeks") should get out more...and look at the Big Picture.

History is shaped by factions and individuals. That one identifiable faction can inarguably be blamed for the assassinations of America's leaders, the finance of Hitler and the Holcaust, Korea, Vietnam, IranContra, Bush v. Gore, and 9-11 is a "pattern" that is indisputable.

America's Founder, a Whig, saw that pattern unfolding in history and called it "the real Anti-Christ:" same families, same techniques, same pedophilia, same assassins, same apologists. None of it belongs in America. Whigs saw the pattern and created America as bastion of Freedom, Truth, Liberty, and Justice. Those who serve the Anti-Christ are enemy to America and to Humanity.

Tory Oaks across the country await all unredeemable, recalcitrant and incorrigible Tories and the traitors they support. Don't think for a second the American People, apprised of the Fifth Column's treason, will stay the hand of Judgment. It awaits.

Obama as president is but one step to that end.Wow. And no, not in a good way.

[R.Mackey]

I understand your point, but I disagree with it. Richard Gage and Steven Jones are particularly prone to making fallacious arguments from authority, and Mark Roberts isn't. Griffin, on the whole, tends not to make arguments from authority either; he relies more on misquotes, misrepresentation and references to demonstrably incorrect sources, which is one reason why his credentials tend not to be discussed as much as Gage or Jones's.

In my analysis of Dr. Griffin, he made only one direct argument to authority, in the section where he justifies applying his own bias to firefighter quotes regarding WTC 7. There he claimed that he could concentrate on those that "opposed the party line," citing his use of a "historian's technique," despite having never established that any party line indeed existed.

Dr. Griffin does use numerous indirect arguments to authority, i.e. Kevin Ryan's alleged special insight into ASTM E 119 testing protocols simply on the basis of his former association with UL (the courts found this "special insight" to be nil). Other examples are Jim Hoffman and Jeff King's status as "engineer" and "MIT engineer" respectively, to justify their erroneous conclusions regarding typical building fires and the startlingly idiotic claim that WTC concrete could not pulverize due to its "low speed."

I suppose it's barely possible that Dr. Griffin is unaware that his quoted sources are falsely arguing from authority, but his selection bias is comprehensive in any event.

With respect to RedIbis, it bears pointing out that when I challenged him (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2806401#post2806401) to name a single significant claim that Dr. Griffin got right, he could not. This (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2810231#post2810231) is the best he could do.

I'm unaware of any time at all when Gravy made an argument from authority, i.e. "I'm a tour guide, so I know how this stuff works." The complaint is simply wrong.

[Drudgewire]

Chomsky sides with the ruling false-elite as a "court dissident." His stated belief that Lee Harvey Oswald killed John Kennedy, despite the publicly available documents that prove the guilt of Nixon, Bush1 and the Knight of Malta-led Roman Catholic CIA, puts him on the side of Bush2's apologists for 9-11-treason, with the blood of the innocent victims of 9-11 and the false war in the Middle East on their hands, now scoffing at patriot Willie Nelson.

Holy crap!

Both crimes are treason.

Lots of crazy :words:

Holy Triple crap!! :boggled:

[dudalb]

No parodies of any Willie songs yet?
Come one,guys I am dissapointed. I would do one myself except a long time ago I found out I am challenged when it comes to composing verse...

[Drudgewire]

No parodies of any Willie songs yet?
Come one,guys I am dissapointed. I would do one myself except a long time ago I found out I am challenged when it comes to composing verse...
I would, but when it comes to parodies I tend to work a little blue for this place. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/redface.gif

[BenBurch]

And besides, Woo Willie Nelson was a much better title for this thread.

On that we agree. :D

[HawksFan]

No parodies of any Willie songs yet?
Come one,guys I am dissapointed. I would do one myself except a long time ago I found out I am challenged when it comes to composing verse...

Ya mean like:

Mommas don't let yer babies grow up to be govshills
Don't let 'em do black ops or NWO stuff
Let 'em do YouTube and CT forum fluff

Mommas don't let yer babies grow up to be govshills
Cause they'll blow up yer buildings, rain death from above
Even to someone they love

Like that?

[brodski]

No parodies of any Willie songs yet?
Come one,guys I am dissapointed. I would do one myself except a long time ago I found out I am challenged when it comes to composing verse...

my inadequate stab.

Crazy.


You're Crazy
Crazy, for having this theory
you're crazy
Crazy, for not getting a clue

I know
You'll start with a nice simple LIHOP
And then someday
You'll be blaming it all on the jews

Worry
Why do I let myself worry
Wondrin'
Why I ever listened to you

Crazy
for thinking evidence could convince you

I'm crazy thunkin' *
you're worthwhile debunkin'
And I'm crazy
For listening to.... you
unless someone stops me, there may be mroe to follow...




* irregular past tense of “to think”, bah, it's the only word I could rhyme with debunking, and it's close enough for country music ;)

[RedIbis]

With respect to RedIbis, it bears pointing out that when I challenged him (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2806401#post2806401) to name a single significant claim that Dr. Griffin got right, he could not. This (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2810231#post2810231) is the best he could do.



How is that not a correct claim? In fact, that post was pretty good.

[dudalb]

BTW I think the ghost of Thomas Jefferson is very insulted by having iAmerican use a picture of Jefferson as his Avatar....

[R.Mackey]

How is that not a correct claim? In fact, that post was pretty good.

The insufficiency of your answer was explained to you in that very thread. In brief, your choice -- that Dr. Griffin stated the 9/11 Commission Report did not examine the WTC 7 collapse -- is neither disputed nor in any way supports Dr. Griffin's position. It is not a claim.

It is, however, quite telling that it is the best you could find.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

And besides, Woo Willie Nelson was a much better title for this thread.


I would have gone with Woo-llie Nelson...

[Walter Ego]

Brief YouTube clip with his 9-11 comments:

kh8lWF4iRP8

You can watch or listen to the entire show (50min) on the Democracy Now site:

Musical Legend Willie Nelson on Farm Aid, Biodiesel Fuel, Outlaw Country Music, Marijuana Laws, the Impeachment of President Bush, the 9/11 Attacks & More. Country music legend Willie Nelson joins us for the hour to talk politics and to play some songs, including “A Moment of Forever,” “On the Road Again,” “You’re Always on My Mind” and “To All the Girls I’ve Loved Before.”


http://www.democracynow.org/2008/2/21/musical_legend_willie_nelson_on_farm

[Sultanist]

Maybe Chomsky gets more media attention these days than most other dissidents BECAUSE he urges people not to inquire into how the secret government operates.
Now that's the most ludicrous statement I've read in some time. I defy whoever made that statement to cite any opportunity Noam Chomsky has ever had to express his views on any commercial network or cable tv media outlet. I'm a junk media junkie and not only have I never seen Chomsky on any network or cable tv news or commentary program, I've never seen any of Chomsky's work or his ideas EVER even discussed by anyone else period. And that is truly a travesty of monumental proportions being that his media criticism model has an almost religious following in academia and the same media it attempts to criticize has utterly and completey ignored it for the decades it's been in existence.
And don't anyone tell me Chomsky is not accessible because I emailed him at MIT and received a personal response from him in less than an hour. Had three more email exchanges with him following that too.