David Saksik

[Heiwa]

http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2008/02/06/01011-20080206FILWWW00629-pedophilieun-francais-condamne-aux-usa.php

I read in Le Figaro (French newspaper) today about a Frenchman that replied to a web site offering sex tourism in Mexico (two nights with an 11 years old boy in a Mexican hotel - US$ 500:-). So the poor Frenchman went to the US (to enter Mexico) and was arrested by the FBI. It was in fact FBI that ran the web site according to the paper. Another conspiracy?

[Gravy]

It is common, and legal, in the United States for law enforcement agencies to catch pedophiles by placing ads and by posing as underage people on the internet. It is not a conspiracy. It is a legitimate way to catch creeps who want to sexually abuse children.

The "poor Frenchman" pled guilty. Would you rather that he be allowed to molest an 11-year-old?

[8den]

Yeah I totally see where my sympathises lie in this situation.

[baron]

I'm in two minds about such operations. Here it's highly likely that this guy's arrest prevented him committing some hideous crime in the future. That can only be a good thing and in this individual case I applaud the result and don't feel in the least sorry for this disgusting French fiddler.

But the general concept of manufacturing criminal scenarios strikes me as wrong, almost like the Minority Report's pre-crime unit without the certainty. What next, a plain-clothed officer prodding someone in the chest saying, "Come on then! You want it with me?" and arresting the suspect when he finally flips?

[westprog]

But the general concept of manufacturing criminal scenarios strikes me as wrong, almost like the Minority Report's pre-crime unit without the certainty. What next, a plain-clothed officer prodding someone in the chest saying, "Come on then! You want it with me?" and arresting the suspect when he finally flips?

It seems probable that the man they caught was a threat. But it really doesn't seem right for the government to be trying to get people to try to break the law. Who's to say that a given person might not manage to restrain himself from acting on his impulses if not lured into action?

That said, the fact that he was arrested might well be a deterrent for perverts trying to avail of such opportunities. They will never be sure that any given operation isn't another sting.

[Tiktaalik]

It is not considered entrapment unless the person is coerced into doing something he wouldn't do on his own. Since the guy would obviously have gone on the "vacation" if the offer was a real one (he did, in fact, go), he wasn't entrapped. That's how drug stings work - the person is looking to buy or sell drugs, it's his problem that he bought/sold them from an undercover officer. It's the same thing.

[Viper Daimao]

Who's to say that a given person might not manage to restrain himself from acting on his impulses if not lured into action?

Define "lured". Unless the FBI emailed the add to him personally this guy was actively looking for this stuff. We should be thankful that he found a fake one, and not the real thing.

[SnuggleSmacks]

I'm just wondering, in this scenario, exactly what the crime is. I mean, it's obvious what the crime probably would have been had the Frenchman been allowed to continue on his trip...but he was prevented. The crime was averted. And unless one is psychic, there's no way to know for sure now if the Frenchman would have actually seen it through. Perhaps he saw the ad and was shocked and thought "I have to see for myself if this is true...maybe even report it! I could be a hero!!" Perhaps he toyed with the idea, made the call, and would have had a change of heart before performing the deed.

Minority Report came to mind for me as well. At this point there seems to only be evidence of intent.

[Heiwa]

It is common, and legal, in the United States for law enforcement agencies to catch pedophiles by placing ads and by posing as underage people on the internet. It is not a conspiracy. It is a legitimate way to catch creeps who want to sexually abuse children.

The "poor Frenchman" pled guilty. Would you rather that he be allowed to molest an 11-year-old?

But FBI put the ad on the Internet which is read world-wide, so there is a difference. OK, I get plenty of spams from various pharmacies that sell useless or dangerous drugs, etc. Obvious scams but apparently stupid people buy there. But a sex-tourism web site run by FBI! Result? One stupid Frenchman caught. Incredible. So I googled on sex tourism + Mexico and apparently it is a big business. That FBI entered with its own site. Amazing.

[rissablue]

How does the French government feel about our guys catching one of their own in a "set up"?