Where have the American SF writers gone?

[Matt the Poet]

As far as I can see 90% of the really interesting, ‘highbrow,’ high concept SF seems to be coming out of Britain. Iain Banks, Charles Stross, Ken MacLeod, Ian MacDonald, M John Harrison etc.

There was a generation of American writers in the 80s who sat at this sort of level. But they’ve either gone quiet (e.g. David Brin), not doing genre work any more (e.g William Gibson) or have started to churn out workmanlike technothrillers that seem way beneath their talents (e.g., no, strike that, i.e. Greg Bear).

Even at the level of pure thrill stuff which isn’t particularly highbrow there seems to be Brit dominance – Neal Asher, Peter Hamilton, Richard Morgan…

This could, of course, be because I live in the UK and we get our people plugged more vigorously than the rest. But most of what I can see on the shelves from America is white-bread military SF and mediocre space opera (come in, Kevin J Anderson, your time is up). Tricia Sullivan seems to be the only person coming close to anything interesting these days.

I’m not being triumphalist, just mystified. It’s a much more popular genre in the US than here, and there’s a larger talent pool to draw from. Am I missing something? Where are the hot new talents in American SF?

[SonOfLaertes]

As far as I can see 90% of the really interesting, ‘highbrow,’ high concept SF seems to be coming out of Britain. Iain Banks, Charles Stross, Ken MacLeod, Ian MacDonald, M John Harrison etc.

There was a generation of American writers in the 80s who sat at this sort of level. But they’ve either gone quiet (e.g. David Brin), not doing genre work any more (e.g William Gibson) or have started to churn out workmanlike technothrillers that seem way beneath their talents (e.g., no, strike that, i.e. Greg Bear).

Even at the level of pure thrill stuff which isn’t particularly highbrow there seems to be Brit dominance – Neal Asher, Peter Hamilton, Richard Morgan…

This could, of course, be because I live in the UK and we get our people plugged more vigorously than the rest. But most of what I can see on the shelves from America is white-bread military SF and mediocre space opera (come in, Kevin J Anderson, your time is up). Tricia Sullivan seems to be the only person coming close to anything interesting these days.

I’m not being triumphalist, just mystified. It’s a much more popular genre in the US than here, and there’s a larger talent pool to draw from. Am I missing something? Where are the hot new talents in American SF?

I agree somewhat - for me the Brit authors you have mentioned are better than the current crop of American authors, but for my taste even the Brit authors are a pale shade of the talent and diversity of past generations.

None of the writers mentioned above wow me in any way. In fact, when I go to the bookstore I find myself walking away empty - handed from the scfi-fi area and lurking in the history and literature areas.

[Bikewer]

I've just finished Stross' newest, "Halting State". Quite a ride. Clever fellow. Banks is very good too.
I will still read anything that Greg Bear puts out, likewise Gibson. His last, Spook Country, is perhaps not science-fiction in a strict sense.
I admit I don't keep up with the newest authors since letting my Asimov's subscription slide, but I may renew it.

[fuelair]

Longtime (52 of my 61 years) SF/Fantasy reader, but A)glut of material B)publishers for quite awhile have treated SF like any other genre material (needs formula, push only in SF circles, etc. I can re-read classics and still find them interesting and even many old non-classics and enjoy them. The new material is designed often for a more limited audience and most I do not find interesting . Too many mediocre to poor series for one thing - and nobody running around at cons talking about the newest really great stuff for quite a while! Fast halt, probably return

[jimbob]

Another (originally Brit) that you might like (except for his annoying inability to do endings) is Alastair Reynolds...

[SonOfLaertes]

Another (originally Brit) that you might like (except for his annoying inability to do endings) is Alastair Reynolds...

Thanks, I've been eyeing his books, but haven't taken the plunge yet.

As far as the whole endings thing, that seems to be endemic to a lot of the new sci-fi nowadays - weak endings, sometimes to otherwise good reads.

[Soapy Sam]

I hear the pain.
But SF is an idea driven genre.
I'm 52. There are few ideas I have not heard before in some form.
At least people are writing SF again. Through the 90s it was largely swamped by triple-trilogies of puerile sword and sorcery fantasies.
My personal favourite writer is American- C.J.Cherryh, though like everyone else, she has tended to formulaic repetitiveness with age. New ideas are scarce. A really good writer maybe only manages half a dozen. The rest of us are lucky if we have one.

[Wudang]

I like the expression "extruded fantasy product". I find more fantasy than SF that's readable these days (though I always get Richard Morgan's books). Steven Eriskon's Malazan books are quite awsome. Scott Lynch is writing some splendid "ripping yarns" with the Gentlemen Bastards books. And maerican patrick Rothfuss made a good debut with Name of the Wind.
My preference for, what, 30+ years has been SF but I don't find much that blows my hair back (such as it is) these days. I hope Michael Marshall Smith writes another book soon.

[Matt the Poet]

I hope Michael Marshall Smith writes another book soon.

For God's sake why? It'll only be the same as all the others. :p

Anyway, isn't he now writing Clancy-pap as 'Michael Marshall'?

I'm waiting for Jeff Noon to return to the stage.

And yes, Reynolds is worthwhile for that wierd gothic vibe. But yes, also, his endings are rubbish-to-bewildering (although nothing beats the catastrophic Deus-Ex-Machina of Hamilton's 'Night's Dawn' trilogy. I almost cried).

Still all Brits, though. Where are the new Sam Delaneys, Philip K Dicks, James Blishes etc.?

[Fnord]

{snip} ... SF is an idea driven genre {snip} There are few ideas I have not heard before in some form. {snip} My personal favourite writer is American- C.J.Cherryh, though like everyone else, she has tended to formulaic repetitiveness with age. New ideas are scarce. A really good writer maybe only manages half a dozen. The rest of us are lucky if we have one.

I can not disagree. SF itself is formulaic, with a limited number of generally-accepted tropes. I used to have a flow-chart for writing SF, but the procedure at the end of this link seems to parallel it nicely.

How to Develop a Plot for a Science Fiction Story (http://www.ehow.com/how_2130284_develop-plot-science-fiction-story.html)

[Wudang]

We'll have to agree to differ. I can't read Jeff Noon - tried Vurt and something else but I just hate books that babble about virtual reality and anything computer related like Gibson's crap (where I keep yelling "Buy a 'king fuse, you chuff or read up on gate logic").
Speaking of endings - Jack Mcdevitt is the master of the let down in my opinion. I can't even remember how any book ended. Even worse than Night's Dawn.

[Darat]

We'll have to agree to differ. I can't read Jeff Noon ...snip....

That's because he is an over rated crap author!

[Darat]

...snip... New ideas are scarce. A really good writer maybe only manages half a dozen. The rest of us are lucky if we have one.

A most under rated author that whilst he is not a great writer is certainly an OK writer - Alan Dean Foster - more original ideas than any other author I can think of. (Albeit he is tending to do more and more churn-out series these days.)

[jimbob]

Isn't Neal Stephenson American?

[Matt the Poet]

Isn't Neal Stephenson American?

Yes. And his last three books have been historical novels.

I'm not saying that there are no good American SF novelists at the moment (I gave Tricia Sullivan an approving mention which I will stand by and Kim Stanley Robinson is still doing his thing), just that their output seems to be rather sparse compared to the mediocre ones, whereas in the UK we seem to have a glut of really interesting, first-tier writers who are using the genre to communicate the mindbending social and technical ideas for which, at its best, it's feted.

You might not like Jeff Noon, and I might not like Michael Marshall Smith either, but in terms of imaginitive scope and writing skill it's almost objectively true that they leave the likes of David Weber and Harry bleedin' Turtledove for dust.

[Matt the Poet]

Double post

[Matt the Poet]

Triple post! Christ!

[fuelair]

And of course self publishing has improved appearance and dropped costs esp. with the PODs - but, the question becomes, are these cutting into regular publisher sales - yes (mostly for SF fans who go to cons)(but not much). Are they good (variable). Are they in need of editing and proofreading (often but not always). Does it help sales that most are direct sales by the author(yes). Is it possible to sell enough to make a decent income (yes, but not likely unless you hit a lot of cons, get called on at most to be guest and panelist, and make nice!!). Will you have a (normal version, not your interpretation) bestseller? (Yes, when a big publisher sees your book, wants your book, gives you money and markets the heck out of your book). But, POD is competition for published writers and....

[Kaylee]

Robert Sawyer. He's from Canada, but still that is on the American continent. ;)

[Fnord]

Here's an interesting link...

If All Stories Were Written Like Science-Fiction (http://www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight.html)

[Kaylee]

Here's an interesting link...

If All Stories Were Written Like Science-Fiction (http://www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight.html)

Valid criticism. Which is why I usually skim SF. I read it fast enough to skip most of the dialogue but slow enough to get the ideas.

[baron]

Yep, you can't beat Peter F Hamilton for edge-of-your-seat sci-fi. Not too keen on waiting months between episodes, however.

The last really great sci-fi I read by a US author was the Gap books by Stephen Donaldson. Not to everyone's taste, but an awesome read if you're a fan of anti-heroes and power hierarchies.

[The Kilted Yaksman]

Chris Moriarty is American. I liked both of her books quite a lot.
While it would be an herculean stretch to call his work SF, Thomas Ligotti is American.
Another of my favorites, Tim Powers, is American. Not much strictly SF output.

[Jason Smith]

I'd like to second the Kilted Yaksman's mention of Tim Powers, though his work tends to be more along the lines of urban fantasy. I think Powers does an excellent job of coming up with neat ideas and has some good takes on scifi/fantasy staples. I'd recommend Expiration Date (A ten-year old is is possessed by the Ghost of Thomas Edison and pursued through Los Angeles by ghost hunters who capture spirits and sell them to a clientele that consumes ghosts for a buzz.), Declare (About the real history of the cold war, with the superpowers were in competition for the favors of djinns.), and Last Call (A Las Vegas gambler tries get back the soul he lost in a poker game).

Another, newer American SF author well worth taking a look at is John Scalzi. He's written four books, three of which are available in paperback. They're not highbrow, but they are fun. Old Man's War and its sequel The Ghost Brigades are set in the far future where humanity is a minor, but up-and-coming power in the intergalactic race for resources. Everyone compares it to Starship Troopers, but without Heinlein's militaristic infatuation. The Android's Dream is his most recent paperback novel, and it is pretty funny. A mid-level diplomat's flatulence has brought humanity to the brink of war with an alien species, which brings a retired agent back to work to save the day.

As always, YMMV.

[mrund]

For years, I've eagerly pounced on the Hartwell & Kramer hard sf Year's Best SF anthologies as soon as they've come out. In the most recent one (#12 from last year), I liked the following authors' contributions:

Nancy Kress US
Cory Doctorow US
Heather Lindsley US
Gardner R. Dozois US
Edd Vick US
Joe Haldeman US
Liz Williams UK
Michael Flynn US
Carol Emshwiller US
Daryl Gregory US
Michael Swanwick US
Ian R. MacLeod UK

So if you're into short fiction, then US sf actually appears to be alive and well. I rarely read sf novels, but the day that Daryl Gregory publishes one, I'll definitely hit that. His short work is amazing!

[Bikewer]

Speaking of Swanwick, he finally has a sequel out to Iron Dragon's Daughter.
The Dragons of Babel.

I'm ordering it today.

[Kaylee]

I second JSmith's mention of John Scalzi.

[Jeff Corey]

Screw all the dragons, unicorns, elves, faires, hobbits,vampires and other *****. Check out "The Electric Church" by Jeff Somers.
Shades of Xenu in the post bush years.

[Jeff Corey]

What? I can't say *****? Sorry, I guess that ******* ************ is not allowed either. Nor is ***. And **.

[The Kilted Yaksman]

I second JSmith's mention of John Scalzi.
Crap, I can't believe I forgot Scalzi, and I just read The Android's Dream. Good stuff!

[JoeEllison]

Screw all the dragons, unicorns, elves, faires, hobbits,vampires and other *****. Check out "The Electric Church" by Jeff Somers.
Shades of Xenu in the post bush years.

Just finished "The Electric Church" last weekend... and I can't wait for the sequel.:D

[gtc]

I really enjoy Scalzi as well.

The other American authors I have been reading lately are SM Stirling (http://smstirling.com/) and John Barnes.

From SM Stirling I would recommend the Dies the Fire series and the Peshwar Lancers novel. You can read the first chapters of most of his novels on his website.

I guess American Gods doesn't count as US SF.

[JoeEllison]

Dan Simmons!!!!

[jimbob]

Dan Simmons!!!!

Unfortunately I only read "Illium", and then felt compelled to fininsh "Olymops" to find out what had happened.

I am told that he has written some good stuff, though.

[Mojo]

Greg Egan isn't American either.

According to his website (http://www.gregegan.net/) all his books have just been reissued in the UK.

[Chaos]

I emphatically second S. M. Stirling. David Brin is pretty good, too, especially "Postman" (the novel, not the movie).

[gtc]

Greg Egan is a great author, Quarantine is one of my favourite books. I also really enjoyed 'Postman', the novel.

[Mojo]

Charles Stross


I've only just discovered him. After reading Singularity Sky I have immediately bought the next two.

[Radrook]

I can understand the previoius frustration posted here. You buy an antholgy promising Sci Fi, pul up your favorite chair, put on your bi-focals, go to the first story and out jumps an elf being chased by a gnome, a wizard brandishing a wand at two dragons and last but certainly not the least, young wench riding a unicorn. : )

[suicidesamurai]

Good SF died with L. Ron Hubbard. Or should I say, when he discarded his body and went off into the universe to continue his research.

http://www.itu.dk/people/cbering/upload/bscap000.jpg

[Charlie Monoxide]

Here's an interesting link...

If All Stories Were Written Like Science-Fiction (http://www.shrovetuesdayobserved.com/flight.html)You know Fnord, I'm really starting to hate you. ;)

I'm getting the same feelings from your great links that I got when someone pointed out to me that almost all Star Trek (both old and new) episodes are basically morality plays.

Charlie (not a trekkie but liked the escapism) Monoxide

[dann]

Vernor Vinge (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030915/vinge.shtml). I liked A Deepness in the Sky and A Fire upon the Deep. But don't stay up waiting for his next novel ...

[technoextreme]

You know Fnord, I'm really starting to hate you. ;)

I'm getting the same feelings from your great links that I got when someone pointed out to me that almost all Star Trek (both old and new) episodes are basically morality plays.

Who pointed that out to you? They were wrong...

[Charlie Monoxide]

Who pointed that out to you? They were wrong...

Errr, how are they not morality plays?

Charlie (go ahead, prove a negative) Monoxide

[Fnord]

You know Fnord, I'm really starting to hate you. ;)

The feeling is mutable.

I'm getting the same feelings from your great links that I got when someone pointed out to me that almost all Star Trek (both old and new) episodes are basically morality plays.

Morality plays, yes. But a morality based on Humanism, as in "The Human Spirit Will Conquer Anything!"

Captain Kirk summed it all up nicely in Star Trek V: The Final Frontier; "Excuse me, but what need does God have for a starship?"

[balrog666]

Vernor Vinge (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2003/20030915/vinge.shtml). I liked A Deepness in the Sky and A Fire upon the Deep. But don't stay up waiting for his next novel ...


Yep.

A big clue here is to look at the age of the writers you like or are mentioned here.
In the US they are mostly on the big downslide to eternity and their peak productivity is long past.
In the UK they seem to be in their 30's-40's.

Where did that generation of writers go in the USA? Mind wiped by watching television as they grew up? Permanently brain damaged by the US educational system? And turned off by the SF mediocrity of the 70's/80's, the explosion of puerile fantasy of the 80's and 90's? Who knows ...

[Billdave2]

I see several have already mentioned Scalzi, and I will add my recommendations to him also. I find Sci-Fi these days seems to be in a real down cycle. I think that the way science and our understanding has advanced so much in the last 100 years may be making it harder to write new stuff. I think that the concepts and our understanding of science may have advanced to the point that it has at least temporarily matched our imaginations. I also find that these days I perfer alt-history more than either sci-fi or fantasy. I think a lot of the better writers who would be writing sci-fi are writing alt-history now (Weber, Stirling, etc).

[Soapy Sam]

Richard Morgan's last, "Black Man" was pretty enjoyable- not a Kovacs novel, and a bit like "Blade Runner", good yarn though.

[Ralph]

Longtime (52 of my 61 years) SF/Fantasy reader, but A)glut of material B)publishers for quite awhile have treated SF like any other genre material (needs formula, push only in SF circles, etc. I can re-read classics and still find them interesting and even many old non-classics and enjoy them. The new material is designed often for a more limited audience and most I do not find interesting . Too many mediocre to poor series for one thing - and nobody running around at cons talking about the newest really great stuff for quite a while! Fast halt, probably return

I couldn't get enough of this stuff when I was a kid. Clarke-Bradbury-Asimov----I still remember reading things like The Martian Chronicles and not being able to put the book down....just had to see what was in the next chapter.

As I grew older (56 now) I found it harder & harder to find a SF novel that would do for me what something like "The City & the Stars" did for me as a kid.


I wondered if it was me--my own perception of things and just the fact that as I aged-I just didn't have that sense of wonder & amazement of the universe I had when I was 10.

I'm starting to think that's not the case at all and maybe it's just because the current crop of SF writers just suck.

I've lost count of the number of SF novels I've started...& never finished.

I'll just go grab Dune or The Foundation series off the shelf & read those again....

[Shoogar]

I wondered if it was me--my own perception of things and just the fact that as I aged-I just didn't have that sense of wonder & amazement of the universe I had when I was 10.

I believe it was a science-fiction author who answered "10" to the question, "When was the golden age?".

The one that got me started on SF, at about age 10, was Heinlein's Time for the Stars. Over the next two years I read every SF book in our small town's only library. I'm sure I understood very little of what I read, but read 'em I did.

[Kotatsu]

Theodore Judson, who wrote the excellent Fitzpatrck's War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzpatrick%27s_War) is American.

[jimbob]

Chris Moriarty is American. I liked both of her books quite a lot.
While it would be an herculean stretch to call his work SF, Thomas Ligotti is American.
Another of my favorites, Tim Powers, is American. Not much strictly SF output.

Yes, just reading "Spin State" by Chris Moriarty, which seems similar in style and themes to some of the Richard Morgan books, which I also enjoy.