AE911Truth Watch

[beachnut]

Richard Gage is in the John Birch Society? You have evidence for this?

I mean, I'd leap at the chance to call him a "son of a Birch" but only if it's true. :D

I think it could be a fit.

...
Join the John Birch Society, help us fill the ranks
To get this movement started we need lots of tools and cranks ...


Oh, we're the John Birch Society, the John Birch Society
Here to save our country from a communistic plot
Join the John Birch Society holding off the Reds
We'll use our hand and hearts and if we must we'll use our heads (by Michael Brown)

[R.Mackey]

I knew that as the Chad Mitchell Trio:

Oh, we've told you about the agents that we've already named,
But MPA has agents who are flatly unashamed
The CIA's subversive! And so's the FCC!
There's no one left but thee and we, and we're not sure of thee!

But yes, you get the idea. ;)

[Dr Adequate]

Given the asymmetrical structural and fire damage and the tendency of any disorder to grow over time (as described by the Second Law of Thermodynamics), the falling building sections should have "rolled off" of the intact sections below, resulting in only partial collapses.

http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4909/nobeleu9.jpg

[boloboffin]

Richard Gage is in the John Birch Society? You have evidence for this?

I mean, I'd leap at the chance to call him a "son of a Birch" but only if it's true. :D

I have no evidence of an actual membership. I spoke on my increasing suspicion and I should have made that clear.

[beachnut]

I knew that as the Chad Mitchell Trio:



But yes, you get the idea. ;)
I added the writer, I remember the song from the album I have from by brother who stole my socks. Fighting for the right to fight/The right fight for the Right!

[ref]

Just a little bump.

The year 2009 seems to be really quiet in AE911Truth land.

http://www.ae911truth.org/appearances.php

No upcoming speaking engagements, and no upcoming interviews exist. Which is great news.

[boloboffin]

However, some idiot counterterrorism official in the FBI has given them a quote that they are going to put on a banner. A Michael Heimbach wrote one of the Truth chapters a letter back after they sent him a AE911Truth DVD. Most of the letter sounds like standard boilerplate (we're working hard, you can have confidence, etc.), but one sentence is really jaw-dropping:

Mr. Gage presents an interesting theory, backed by thorough research and analysis.

Mr. Heimbach evidently doesn't know what "thorough" means, not if he applies it to the cherry-picked presentation of AE911Truth. Perhaps he meant "extensive" or "quite a bit" -- in other words, Gage certainly does talk for two hours about a lot of things. But a "thorough" look at the collapses of those three buildings? Not hardly.

I'm going to send him a fruit basket. He should get used to associating with fruits.

[T.A.M.]

Thorough reproduction of others investigoogling more accurately. Gage is a parrot of old truther long debunked canards. He merely uses his REMOTELY related profession as an "in" to supposed legitimacy.

Heimbach is too naive to Gage's MO to know the difference.

TAM:)

[roundhead]

Chris7,

I find it rather disconcerting that you're still attempting to argue these points. I thought we had laid the issue to rest several pages ago. Kevin Ryan is either a lying fraud, an idiotic incompetent, or, most likely, both. You should not be so quick to hop onto his bandwagon, or at least be a lot quicker to get back off of it.

As to Mr. Knoblach's alleged statements regarding the testing, it's quite clear that you still have no idea how these tests are performed or what they measure. I tried to clear this up for you at the top of Page 17, and I refer you back to that post now:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3632667#post3632667


Point out why Ryan was professionally incompetent at UL?

Hadnt he, not long before his letter, actually been promoted by UL to a position of much greater responsibility, implying competence and professional ability?

Otherwise, quit slandering Ryan's professional ability at UL

[roundhead]

Thorough reproduction of others investigoogling more accurately. Gage is a parrot of old truther long debunked canards. He merely uses his REMOTELY related profession as an "in" to supposed legitimacy.

Heimbach is too naive to Gage's MO to know the difference.

TAM:)


Gage is way overqualified to state that Building 7 was brought down by something other than fire.

[DavidJames]

Point out why Ryan was professionally incompetent at UL?

Hadnt he, not long before his letter, actually been promoted by UL to a position of much greater responsibility, implying competence and professional ability?

Otherwise, quit slandering Ryan's professional ability at ULGage is a shameless charlatan who prey's on the mentally ill and disenfranchised. Why do you support him?

[boloboffin]

Gage is way overqualified to state that Building 7 was brought down by something other than fire.

Not according to him (http://ae911truth.info/tiki-index.php?page=Top+10+Boneheaded+Mistakes#The_Admi ssion_of_This_Subject_Being_Outside_Their_Expertis e).

[Kent1]

Gage doesn't stop. He just keeps adding to his story. This is his letter to congressman Robert Wexler.

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/31

Now, he has tried this tactic before:


Really?

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394892c331b6104.jpg

Last year he was claiming their growth was exponential. Busted that time too.



Nothing new in Gageland. Wild accusations, zero knowledge.

The site traffic has only gotten worse in the recent few months. The traffic has dropped 33%, traffic rank has dropped over 100K and the page views have dropped 60% from 2 to 1.1.

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details/ae911truth.org

[nicepants]

Gage is way overqualified to state that Building 7 was brought down by something other than fire.

Gage debunked that notion when he performed his cardboard box demonstration.

[beachnut]

Gage is way overqualified to state that Building 7 was brought down by something other than fire.

Gage is clueless.
He is ignorant on large structures and his theories and ideas are as dumb as the rest of 9/11 truth. He has no evidence to back up his position.
Architects and Engineers are trained to design buildings that function well and withstand potentially destructive forces. However, the 3 high-rise buildings at the World Trade Center which "collapsed" on 9/11 (the Twin Towers plus WTC Building #7) presented us with a body of evidence (i.e., controlled demolition) that was clearly outside the scope of our training and experience. this was already pointed out to you; http://www.ae911truth.org/info/4 (http://www.ae911truth.org/info/4)
Gage is a fraud, does he have a clue?

[UNLoVedRebel]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_27494495ad3833276b.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=14730)

[T.A.M.]

The only thing Gage is overqualified in, is cheap, tangential modeling of building collapses.

TAM;)

[ref]

A year ago I wrote about Gage's connections to Unity Church (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103606), and his role as a donation counselor for the church (the link in that post does not work anymore).

Well, he still very much supports his church.

His church had a fundraising event in November, 2008 called Casino Royale.

And who is #2 in the sponsors list?

Thanks to our Casino Royale Sponsors!
Javier Cortez...Intero Real Estate
Richard Gage...Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

http://www.unitycenter.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dec_08_centerpoint.pdf (http://www.unitycenter.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dec_08_centerpoint.pdf) (page 3)

That is Gage alright. Using the AE911Truth title.

He wouldn't use the donations AE911Truth.org has received to sponsor his own church, would he? That's not possible, right?

[boloboffin]

A year ago I wrote about Gage's connections to Unity Church (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=103606), and his role as a donation counselor for the church (the link in that post does not work anymore).

Well, he still very much supports his church.

His church had a fundraising event in November, 2008 called Casino Royale.

And who is #2 in the sponsors list?

Thanks to our Casino Royale Sponsors!
Javier Cortez...Intero Real Estate
Richard Gage...Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth

http://www.unitycenter.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dec_08_centerpoint.pdf (http://www.unitycenter.net/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/dec_08_centerpoint.pdf) (page 3)

That is Gage alright. Using the AE911Truth title.

He wouldn't use the donations AE911Truth.org has received to sponsor his own church, would he? That's not possible, right?



The PDF has a URL for pictures of the event. I cycled through them quickly, and one of the first had a registration table with a sign saying Please Visit Our Sponsors' Tables. So, yes, he probably could have given some money to the event from AE911Truth. In return, he or someone else in the group (he was off in Europe on November 7, right?) could set up a table with AE911Truth wares. Sadly, the photographer didn't get many pictures of these sponsors' tables. I only saw one advertising Nano Nutrition, which sounds a lot like homeopathy.

So I can't verify that there was a table there, but AE911Truth funds definitely could have been used to sponsor the event. It looks like everyone there was having a good time.

[ref]

The PDF has a URL for pictures of the event. I cycled through them quickly, and one of the first had a registration table with a sign saying Please Visit Our Sponsors' Tables. So, yes, he probably could have given some money to the event from AE911Truth. In return, he or someone else in the group (he was off in Europe on November 7, right?) could set up a table with AE911Truth wares. Sadly, the photographer didn't get many pictures of these sponsors' tables. I only saw one advertising Nano Nutrition, which sounds a lot like homeopathy.

So I can't verify that there was a table there, but AE911Truth funds definitely could have been used to sponsor the event. It looks like everyone there was having a good time.

It really looks like a good time. No question about that.

It seems they sponsored the card tables, maybe some more. When I watched carefully (yes, I do have spare time today :p), some card table had a AE911Truth logo.

But sponsoring your own church (that you had worked as a donation counselor for) with money, that was donated to AE911Truth.. I have a problem with that :rolleyes: Of course, they can choose where they want to be present. What would be more convenient for him than that place.

[Blender Head]

I e-mailed this to AE911Truth via their 'Contact Us' form:

Hello,

Back in September of 2008, during the Q&A session
of a presentation by Mr. Gage, he was asked why
Mr. Danny Jovenko was included on the "expert
collaboration" section of WTC 7 for its
demolition, but not the Twins. Mr. Gage replied
that Jovenko was more familiar with the techniques
used for WTC 7's demolition than the Two Towers.

If that's true, how come other CD experts could
determine that WTC 1, and 2 were demolished? Are
they more familiar with top-down demolition than
Jovenko?

Thanks,
TSJ

Now taking bets on whether they'll reply to it, starting at $50.

[UNLoVedRebel]

I e-mailed this to AE911Truth via their 'Contact Us' form:



Now taking bets on whether they'll reply to it, starting at $50.

The cat's out of the bag at ae911truth. They know you're a mole. This is why God invented sock puppets.

[Blender Head]

The cat's out of the bag at ae911truth. They know you're a mole. This is why God invented sock puppets.

Touche.

But, if they care about their credibility (I know, I know) they will think of something.

[Blender Head]

Since I can't edit the above, I'll have to double post.

I got a reply, but can't make a lick of sense of it; anyone who does gets a free dinner at Chuck E. Cheeses:

A "controlled demolition" looks like a controlled demolition because it is one.
Therefore, it should not be too difficult for an expert in controlled demolition to recognize one.

A "deceptive controlled demolition" is done in a way so that it does not look like a conventional controlled demolition.
Consequently, the goal is to mislead people--perhaps even controlled demolition experts.

Other demolition experts agree that demolitions took place. The ones who are on record are here: http://demolitionexpertsquestion911.blogspot.com/ I know of others.

Under no circumstances are the laws of physics suspended--regardless of whether or not some sort of demolition was done.
NIST is not seriously investigating the possibility of the controlled demolition and deceptive controlled demolition hypotheses for WTC7 and the Twin Towers.

At the same time, NIST itself says that it has no explanation for the total collapse of the Twin Towers. In a letter dated September 27, 2007, NIST stated: "[W]e are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."
NIST's reiterates this from their Twin Towers report (2005): "NIST has stated that it found no corroborating evidence to suggest that explosives were used to bring down the buildings." The next sentence admits, however: "NIST did not conduct tests for explosive residue..."

Since NIST does not have an explanation and is not investigating the possibility of explosives, perhaps the explanation they do not seriously consider is viable. That is exactly what Dr. Steven Jones and others are doing.


Documentation of the Data Quality Act exchange is also available on the US Department of Commerce Web site and on the Journal of 9/11 Studies Web site.

Original RFC: http://ocio.os.doc.gov/ITPolicyandPrograms/Information_Quality/ssLINK/PROD01_003034
NIST Response: http://ocio.os.doc.gov/ITPolicyandPrograms/Information_Quality/ssLINK/PROD01_004108
Appeal Letter: http://ocio.os.doc.gov/ITPolicyandPrograms/Information_Quality/ssLINK/PROD01_004622

http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/AppealLetterToNISTGourleyEtAl.pdf
http://journalof911studies.com/volume/2007/NISTresponseToRequestForCorrectionGourleyEtal2.pdf

NIST reports are available at http://wtc.nist.gov

[DGM]

I'm bored I'll try;


Originally Posted by Shane Geiger
A "controlled demolition" looks like a controlled demolition because it is one.
Therefore, it should not be too difficult for an expert in controlled demolition to recognize one.

A controlled demolition is nothing more than a structural failure gravity collapse that was initiated in a way to control collateral damage. I don't remember anything like that on 9/11. Structural failure on the other hand happened several times. Try asking him to isolate the initiating event.

A "deceptive controlled demolition" is done in a way so that it does not look like a conventional controlled demolition.
Consequently, the goal is to mislead people--perhaps even controlled demolition experts.

Total gibberish. See above


Other demolition experts agree that demolitions took place. The ones who are on record are here: http://demolitionexpertsquestion911.blogspot.com/ I know of others.

Yet they don't present the evidence to convince the general public. I admit I did not click that link but I know these "experts" have never made any attempt to support their position.

Under no circumstances are the laws of physics suspended--regardless of whether or not some sort of demolition was done.

The laws of physics (according to any report) were never violated. Tell him to support his accusation (he can't it's BS) or retract.


NIST is not seriously investigating the possibility of the controlled demolition and deceptive controlled demolition hypotheses for WTC7 and the Twin Towers.

At the same time, NIST itself says that it has no explanation for the total collapse of the Twin Towers. In a letter dated September 27, 2007, NIST stated: "[W]e are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."
NIST's reiterates this from their Twin Towers report (2005): "NIST has stated that it found no corroborating evidence to suggest that explosives were used to bring down the buildings." The next sentence admits, however: "NIST did not conduct tests for explosive residue...
Since NIST does not have an explanation and is not investigating the possibility of explosives, perhaps the explanation they do not seriously consider is viable. That is exactly what Dr. Steven Jones and others are doing.


Documentation of the Data Quality Act exchange is also available on the US Department of Commerce Web site and on the Journal of 9/11 Studies Web site.

This is just a parroting of their party line. Ask them to support any of these lies. The silence will be deafening.

[funk de fino]

Point out why Ryan was professionally incompetent at UL?

Hadnt he, not long before his letter, actually been promoted by UL to a position of much greater responsibility, implying competence and professional ability?

Otherwise, quit slandering Ryan's professional ability at UL

Only problem is, he wasn't. You need to learn to read.

[ref]

It's a new year, and they need more money. Much more money. In a short newsletter they have a total of 6 links to the Sustaining members -page.

http://www.ae911truth.org/actionalerts/action014.php

Last year, the response to our Sustaining Membership drive was less than hoped for. While we did double the number of Sustaining Members, the number still represents less than 4% of our 3,500 petition signers (approx. 100 people). This level of financial support does not allow us to meet our goals. If just HALF of our petition signers and other supporters upgraded to monthly Sustaining Memberships, it would make a HUGE difference in our ability to achieve a highly effective marketing presence in the professional architecture and engineering communities, and with our many other projects. At present we are only able to meet basic operating expenses at the beginning of this year and, in fact, are starting out in the red. Please join us and work with us actively to achieve the many goals set for us by you and the needs of the 9/11 Truth movement. Become a monthly Sustaining Member today!

Ok, they say 4% of their petition signers give regular financial support to AE911Truth. In reality 100 out of 3500 equals 2,86%. They are correct in stating that it represents less than 4%, since it actually represents less than 3%. Not too high a percentage.

Here are the sustaining membership monthly payments they are hoping to get more and more, and the fancy donor titles.

Citizen / Student $10 monthly
Advocate $25 monthly
Activist $50 monthly
Patriot $100 monthly
Statesman $250 monthly
Ambassador $500 monthly
AE911Truth Hero $911 monthly


Let's see how much money they approximately made last year. They currently have about 100 sustaining members.

They say that number doubled last year, so in the beginning of 2008 they had about 50 sustaining members. That makes and average of 75 sustaining members for the entire last year.

In the most optimal case (each of the 75 is a "AE911Truth Hero") they received donations worth 75 x $911 x 12 months = $819 000.

But we all know that's not possible. Most likely a huge majority of these Sustaining members are "Citizens/Students" giving $10 a month.

Let's see how much they would have made in the most pessimistic scenario, where every one of the 75 Sustaining members was a "Citizen/Student". 75 x $10 x 12 months = $9000.

Thus, in 2008 AE911Truth received donations amounting between $9000 - $819 000, approximately that is.

The true number is most probably pretty close to $9000. At least much closer to the lower limit, than the higher limit.

Is that good business? Gage thinks not, he wants more. He wants HALF of the petition signers to become Sustaining members. With 3500 current petition signers, that means they currently would like to have at least a total of 1750 Sustaining members. These 1750 Sustaning members would stretch the previously calculated amount of yearly donations received to between $210 000 - $19 131 000.

They want to have donations amounting between two hundred thousand and 19 million dollars! Cheesh. That SURE would be good business.

[ref]

It seems (to no-one's surprise) that Gage no longer works as an architect. This is what he says, when discussing the need of further donations:

Become a Sustaining Member of AE911Truth today – a part of the family - giving monthly. You can start as low as $10/month – on up! This is how we keep our doors open and pay our operating expenses. All non-profits work this way. No one is getting rich over here. I, Richard Gage, am the only salaried employee and I receive only about half of my former pay as an architect.

http://www.ae911truth.org/sustain.php#SpecialProject_2009_AEConventionsAndOt herProjects

So, he does receive a salary, the salary is paid out of the donations, and he no longer works as an architect. That's how I would interpret that sentence.

[ElMondoHummus]

I don't mean the following in the sense of schadenfreude. Rather, I state it as relief for the safety of general public. But, if he's truly not working as an architect anymore, then thank goodness! His analysis of the WTC collapse dynamics suggests that he misunderstands what causes buildings to fail, and if that's the case, could he truly design a structure that is safe to begin with?

Granted, from what I understand, building engineers would sound off if a structure was designed in an unsound manner - other folks here working in the field can clarify or correct me on that point - but still, his statements do not engender trust in his abilities. If he's not designing anymore, I think it's better for the public.

[alienentity]

(humor) I obtained the draft of the terms for their monthly contributors. I can't verify the accuracy of this information, my NWO handler won't provide it.


Uninformed Sucker $10 monthly
Gullible Joe Average$25 monthly
Cult Zealot $50 monthly
Bin Laden Lover $100 monthly
Treasonous Ghoul $250 monthly
Well-Endowed Idiot $500 monthly
Rich Moron $911 monthly

[BigAl]

It seems (to no-one's surprise) that Gage no longer works as an architect. This is what he says, when discussing the need of further donations:



So, he does receive a salary, the salary is paid out of the donations, and he no longer works as an architect. That's how I would interpret that sentence.

What's the tax status for AE911?

[Mancman]

I feel some pity for Gage. His wife left him, he no longer has a (proper) job, all because of utter nonsense.

[boloboffin]

I feel some pity for Gage. His wife left him, he no longer has a (proper) job, all because of utter nonsense.

Some people just buy a sports car.

[T.A.M.]

paranoia + obsession = social isolation

TAM:)

[CORed]

The FACT that it IMPLODED is evidence that it was a CD.

CD is the ONLY known cause of high rise building implosion.

It is a fine art, extremely difficult to accomplish.

To say that the implosion of WTC 7 isn't evidence, is pure denial.

The fires in WTC 7 did not burn long enough to heat a column weigh over 7 tons per floor to over 1000° F.

The FACT that the collapse of wtc7 KINDA SORTA almost LOOKED LIKE a controlled demolition is PROOF! PROOF! I tell you that it WAS a controlled demolition, and, because I say so PROOF! that Bush did it.

[A W Smith]

It seems (to no-one's surprise) that Gage no longer works as an architect. This is what he says, when discussing the need of further donations:



So, he does receive a salary, the salary is paid out of the donations, and he no longer works as an architect. That's how I would interpret that sentence.


I suppose that's one way to avoid alimony

[ref]

Gage is now promoting this strange slide:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a2cb0c7e3e80.png

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/62

Isn't this slide suggesting that the "free fall" started at T=0, in other words suggesting that the collapse started with this 2.25 second period of free fall?

Well, NIST says that the 2.25 second period was between T=1.75 and T=4.00

Even David Chandler does not suggest that the free fall started at T=0.

So why would Gage suggest, that it started at T=0? ;)

[Minadin]

Why would he produce a graphic like that, and pretend that it represented what the NIST thinks happened at all, unless he's a complete fraud?

[boloboffin]

What provided the energy for eliminating section A?

The earlier parts of the progressive collapse.

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/Floors-7-14-Buckling.jpg

Of course AE911Truth gets the location of the eight floors wrong. It's not 1-8, but 7-14.

After column 79 caused 80 and 81 to fail, the eastern third of the building's interior failed vertically up to the east mechanical penthouse, causing it to collapse and fall into the building. That left the rest of the interior core without any bracing to the east. That began a horizontal failure of core columns in floors 7-14.

Once they had failed, that left the entire bulk of the remaining building above the 14th floor being suspended by only the perimeter columns. And these columns were simultaneously being pulled into the building by the floor trusses still connected to the interior columns. The perimeter buckled as you can see in the graphic above, almost instantaneously.

And that was the end of floors 7-14. The above graphic represents the start of the 2.25 second timeframe. And all of this explanation is my layman's understanding, of course.

[BasqueArch]

I don't mean the following in the sense of schadenfreude. Rather, I state it as relief for the safety of general public. But, if he's truly not working as an architect anymore, then thank goodness! His analysis of the WTC collapse dynamics suggests that he misunderstands what causes buildings to fail, and if that's the case, could he truly design a structure that is safe to begin with?

Granted, from what I understand, building engineers would sound off if a structure was designed in an unsound manner - other folks here working in the field can clarify or correct me on that point - but still, his statements do not engender trust in his abilities. If he's not designing anymore, I think it's better for the public.

In his full 2 hour presentation Gage claims: " Like many other architects though, I've designed numerous fireproofed steel framed buildings in my career including these 3 and 10 million dollar gymnasiums." (Here he shows pictures of steel framed buildings with complex moment connections).

"I'm now working on a 400 million dollar project in Nevada ... with over 1200 tons of steel framing altogether."

Gage is no structural engineer, that designed these steel buildings and stamped the drawings. I remember reading his CV online last year, now gone. (Bolo do you remember his CV?).

"I've designed" - no he didn't, at most the column spacing and building and floor heights, the rest of the design done by structural engineers of which he is not one.

" I'm now working on" could mean anything except the mechanical, electrical, structural engineering. He's an employee of a large architectural firm, not a partner and from his CV heavy on Construction Administration - the paperwork required during construction after all the designing has been done.

This has always chafed me, that he uses words like "I've designed" and "I'm now working on" along with pictures of steel structures to deceive the unknowing lay audience into believing he structurally designed and stamped the drawings of the steel framing they see in his pictures.

[Klimax]

Gage is no structural engineer, that designed these steel buildings and stamped the drawings. I remember reading his CV online last year, now gone. (Bolo do you remember his CV?).


Do you have still old link to it? I think there are still ways to get to it.(Others please,do not disclose method at this time as it is possible to get it removed. And yes i think no truther knows about it unles made aware...)

[BigAl]

Do you have still old link to it? I think there are still ways to get to it.(Others please,do not disclose method at this time as it is possible to get it removed. And yes i think no truther knows about it unles made aware...)


Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf

[Klimax]

Resume: http://members.shaw.ca/loudstudios/GageCV.pdf

Hm. This one?
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9181&d=1195165589

[BasqueArch]

Hm. This one?
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9181&d=1195165589


Bingo.

"Coordination of all consultants ... structural ... and civil consultants."
--------------------------------------------------------
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Winston Churchill

[boloboffin]

And Richard is no longer working as an architect. I don't know if I've already posted that here, but a recent change to the fundraising page (http://www.ae911truth.org/sustain.php) at AE911Truth makes it clear that Gage's sole line of income is his work for AE911Truth.

Here’s what you do: First, become a Sustaining Member of AE911Truth today – a part of the family - giving monthly. You can start as low as $10/month – on up! This is how we keep our doors open and pay our operating expenses. All non-profits work this way. No one is getting rich over here. (I, Richard Gage, am the only salaried employee and I receive only about half of my former pay as an architect. Everyone here is sacrificing – on a grand scale to bring the truth about 9/11)

So Gage isn't working on anything more substantial these days than putting up a folding table and hooking up the credit card machine.

[Audible Click]

Quote:
low as $10/month – on up!

I just love that exclamtion mark. So exciting.

[Justin39640]

And Richard is no longer working as an architect. I don't know if I've already posted that here, but a recent change to the fundraising page (http://www.ae911truth.org/sustain.php) at AE911Truth makes it clear that Gage's sole line of income is his work for AE911Truth.



So Gage isn't working on anything more substantial these days than putting up a folding table and hooking up the credit card machine.

that link is disgusting
hes another trying to bank in while marching over the graves of thousands
look at this part
AE911 Truth Hero - $911.00 MONTHLY - 20 DVD's + 1000 of each card
i just puked in my mouth a little

who would pay thattttt?????

[Juniversal]

that link is disgusting
hes another trying to bank in while marching over the graves of thousands
look at this part

i just puked in my mouth a little

who would pay thattttt?????Oh God. Seeing that brings to mind these infomercials.

WjU5LZu6btE

5cm2LjQODFY

[BigAl]

Bingo.

"Coordination of all consultants ... structural ... and civil consultants."
--------------------------------------------------------
"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on." - Winston Churchill

I notice the complete lack of any structural engineering software.

[Edx]

i just puked in my mouth a little

who would pay thattttt?????

A 911 Truth HERO.

Cant you read, dummy? ;);)

[cyclonic]

AE911TRUTH The Final Frontier. These Are The objectives Of The Conman Richard Gage, His Five-year Mission To Explore Strange New Theories, To Seek Out New Cons And New Victims, To Boldly Go Where No Fraudster Has Gone Before.

[Justin39640]

correction
A 911 Truth DUMMY.

Cant you read, HERO? ;);)

lol

[eromitlab]

Remember the flak Rudy Giuliani got during his presidential campaign for a couple of his supporters putting together a fundraiser asking for donation of $9.11? Gage has magnified it 100x and can't even plead ignorance by pushing it off on a supporter operating on his/her own and not under the direction of his group. I kind of hope that ae911twoof gets a little mainstream attention just so Gage can be clubbed over the head with that mindlessly exploitative tidbit. I mean, if just clubbing him over the head with the real truth, that he gets every single fact wrong, doesn't work.

Also, this slide from post #787:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a2cb0c7e3e80.png
Am I reading it wrong, or has Gage added eight stories to WTC 7 in addition to getting NIST's freefall time wrong? Section B seems to be identified as 47 stories, and the eight-story section appears to be labeled as a separate thing that disappears during the 0-2.25s freefall.

[Justin39640]

Remember the flak Rudy Giuliani got during his presidential campaign for a couple of his supporters putting together a fundraiser asking for donation of $9.11? Gage has magnified it 100x and can't even plead ignorance by pushing it off on a supporter operating on his/her own and not under the direction of his group. I kind of hope that ae911twoof gets a little mainstream attention just so Gage can be clubbed over the head with that mindlessly exploitative tidbit. I mean, if just clubbing him over the head with the real truth, that he gets every single fact wrong, doesn't work.

Also, this slide from post #787:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a2cb0c7e3e80.png
Am I reading it wrong, or has Gage added eight stories to WTC 7 in addition to getting NIST's freefall time wrong? Section B seems to be identified as 47 stories, and the eight-story section appears to be labeled as a separate thing that disappears during the 0-2.25s freefall.

i think he means the overall height in the figure on the left
and the 8 stories are highlighted
not to say hes right
just to say at least he didnt think it was 55 stories lol

[bill smith]

AE911TRUTH The Final Frontier. These Are The objectives Of The Conman Richard Gage, His Five-year Mission To Explore Strange New Theories, To Seek Out New Cons And New Victims, To Boldly Go Where No Fraudster Has Gone Before.

We are the Perps.
Lower your shields.
You will be assimilated.
Your free born individualism will be deleted.
Resistance is futile!

[Grizzly Bear]

Also, this slide from post #787:
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/136394a2cb0c7e3e80.png
Am I reading it wrong, or has Gage added eight stories to WTC 7 in addition to getting NIST's freefall time wrong? Section B seems to be identified as 47 stories, and the eight-story section appears to be labeled as a separate thing that disappears during the 0-2.25s freefall.
I think in this case you're reading it wrong... it doesn't look like he added 8 stories to the building, but it is a very badly drawn diagram... Although the diagram highlights yet another contradiction in their theory; that the "top section must be larger than the bottom section to completely collapse to the ground." They seem to be letting that one slide this time.... or maybe I'm also reading it weirdly


We are the Perps.
Lower your shields.
You will be assimilated.
Your free born individualism will be deleted.
Resistance is futile!

VDW0ZnZxjn4

[cyclonic]

We are the Perps.
Lower your shields.
You will be assimilated.
Your free born individualism will be deleted.
Resistance is futile!

Thats right bill, you are the borg.

[Mr. Skinny]

[dyslexic borg] Your ass will be laminated [/borg]

[Bluesky]

Hm. This one?
http://forums.randi.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=9181&d=1195165589

It's true that if you look at Richard Gage's resume that its difficult to see why how he got to be so clever and knowledgeable about 9/11.

On Sept 11th and the two years before, he was working on a 2 story building and and an Animal Care Facility, which is perhaps why he could see things that other more experienced architects and engineers could not.

However I think there are some clues to his insight from his early background experience. Among his extensive restroom, retail and restaurant experience you can see he worked on EuroDisney ( nothing significant of course ) Maybe this is where he started his dream and developing his fantasy world.

All in all it is a pretty sad resume, and you can see why he would want to cling to his leadership of the ae911truth under any circumstances.

[johnny karate]

Thats right bill, you are the borg.

You misspelled "bore".

[TSR]

Thats right bill, you are the borg.
.
You missed the letters I and N right before the G.

HTH. HAND.
.

[TSR]

[dyslexic borg] Your ass will be laminated [/borg]
.
That's not funny -- I am dyslexic. I once grew so desponent over it that I threw myself behind a bus.
.

[eromitlab]

I think in this case you're reading it wrong... it doesn't look like he added 8 stories to the building, but it is a very badly drawn diagram... Although the diagram highlights yet another contradiction in their theory; that the "top section must be larger than the bottom section to completely collapse to the ground." They seem to be letting that one slide this time.... or maybe I'm also reading it weirdly


You are right, it is a very badly drawn diagram. Gage must spend just a few seconds on this one before clicking to the next one, before anyone he gives the presentation to has much time to think about everything that's wrong with it or looks like it could be wrong with it.

[ref]

Just a quick little update from their DC Convention page (http://www.ae911truth.org/events/dcconvention/).

And if you haven't yet, please join the family of Sustaining Members as well, so that we can continue the winning streak that we are on. We must have an average of $35/month per member to realize our goals toward the awakening of the A/E profession and a real WTC investigation.

They currently have about 100 sustaining members, that multiplied by $35 gives them $3500/month. That's the salary of Gage.. err.. their funding for awakening of the A/E profession.

[boloboffin]

Well, now that the D.C. convention is over and all the architects have been suitably shocked by 60" plasma screen showing WTC 7 falling and all the staffers to 10 Congressional members have been glad-handed, it's vacation time!

http://twitter.com/AE911Truth/status/2846851037

Sunday 7/19: Sightseeing Washington Monument, Vietnam Memorial, Lincoln Memorial, Capitol Building, White House, museums

Are we taking bets whether the Holocaust Museum is on the agenda? Anyone?

[boloboffin]

I am LOVING the new ae911truth twitter feed. Here's the latest (http://twitter.com/AE911Truth/status/2857567859)!

Mon 7/20: Deliver scathing letter to Dr. Sunder @ NIST & AIA president Marvin Melecha. Speak to dozens of tourists in front of White House.

Dozens! Dozens! Scathing letters and dozens of tourists!

:dl:

[fitzgibbon]

Scathing letters and dozens of tourists!

:dl:

Of course there's no mention as to whether the tourists were English-speaking or not. :D

[boloboffin]

Of course there's no mention as to whether the tourists were English-speaking or not. :D

"Later Monday 7/20: Went home, bit pillow, took long bubble bath"

[Mr.Herbert]

Seems the "Dick" got some airtime on "Russia Today."

rnyL7Nn3eOA

[bill smith]

.
That's not funny -- I am dyslexic. I once grew so desponent over it that I threw myself behind a bus.
.
lol

[beachnut]

Seems the "Dick" got some airtime on "Russia Today."

rnyL7Nn3eOA

Tall Tales? Gage is one of the dumbest people on earth on 911 issues; the next real close runner ups, the news media who are unable to expose his fraud as he collects money from even dumber people.

Gage is so stupid how can you be that dumb and fool other people to give you money? Oops I answered that; the people who donate money are dumber than Gaga on 911 and mighty lazy to let him do their thinking.

[tsig]

I am LOVING the new ae911truth twitter feed. Here's the latest (http://twitter.com/AE911Truth/status/2857567859)!



Dozens! Dozens! Scathing letters and dozens of tourists!

:dl:

So he's leafleting and street preaching.

I wonder if he ever looks around and asks himself how it ever came to this, from teaching facts to students to peddling crap to strangers.

[ref]

Ah, I just remembered that their goal for 9/11 of 2008 was 1000 A&E members. In reality they reached 473.

They set a new goal (http://www.ae911truth.org/actionalerts/action014.php), which was 1000 A&E members, but this time by September 11th of 2009. They added another year to reach the goal. They were supposed to visit the congress in D.C. on 9/11 with their 1000 signatures. I guess they won't, since they can't reach 1000, and Gage is scheduled to appear in NYC that day. Currently they are at 728, which means they are set to fail again. Only this time around they have not even mentioned that goal in a long while. Maybe reality caught them. Last year they were desperately promoting (http://www.911blogger.com/node/16708) that goal to the last minute.

[boloboffin]

From the Twitter feed (http://twitter.com/AE911Truth/status/2913720441):

We are submitting an article of the evidence for controlled demolition to Republic Magazine, due to come out in September!

Republic Magazine (http://www.republicmagazine.com/) calls itself the Voice of the Patriot Movement. The most recent issue:

Talk of a Second American Revolution is spreading and we uncover the truth for you in Issue #15. Features include; The Founding Terrorists, Tea Parties: Not Just for Boston Anymore,The Comittees of Safety, Quelling the Rebellion, Ron Paul: Pillar in the Storm, Enemies of the State, Continental Congress 2009, Alter or Abolist: The Rights of the People, State of Independence: State Sovereignty, The Time is Now, Ron Paul on Seccession, A Call to Military & Police, Secret Congressional Meeting, What Can One Man Do?, I Am The People, Restoring America One County at a Time, 60 Second Activism, Constitutional Discipline and More…

All spellings are sic.

[dudalb]

Talk of a Second American Revolution is spreading and we uncover the truth for you in Issue #15. Features include; The Founding Terrorists, Tea Parties: Not Just for Boston Anymore,The Comittees of Safety, Quelling the Rebellion, Ron Paul: Pillar in the Storm, Enemies of the State, Continental Congress 2009, Alter or Abolist: The Rights of the People, State of Independence: State Sovereignty, The Time is Now, Ron Paul on Seccession, A Call to Military & Police, Secret Congressional Meeting, What Can One Man Do?, I Am The People, Restoring America One County at a Time, 60 Second Activism, Constitutional Discipline and More…

I think the 9/11 Truthwatch has found the perfect magazine for their material. It fits right in with the rest of the batcrap crazy.

[Bluesky]

Ah, I just remembered that their goal for 9/11 of 2008 was 1000 A&E members. In reality they reached 473.

They set a new goal (http://www.ae911truth.org/actionalerts/action014.php), which was 1000 A&E members, but this time by September 11th of 2009. They added another year to reach the goal. They were supposed to visit the congress in D.C. on 9/11 with their 1000 signatures. I guess they won't, since they can't reach 1000, and Gage is scheduled to appear in NYC that day. Currently they are at 728, which means they are set to fail again. Only this time around they have not even mentioned that goal in a long while. Maybe reality caught them. Last year they were desperately promoting (http://www.911blogger.com/node/16708) that goal to the last minute.


Well lets see, there are 34,000 engineers licensed to practice in California. There are 140,000 members of the ASCE. So lets assume that there are 200,000 PE's in the states.

So statistically the annual death rate for Americans aged 25 to 65, is 400 per 100,000. So that means that each year, 800 PE's die and each year about 20 engineers sign the ae911tm petition.

The annual PE death rate is 10 times the total number of engineers who have signed the ae911tm petition. Looks like engineers would rather die than sign it!

[Hokulele]

Republic Magazine (http://www.republicmagazine.com/) calls itself the Voice of the Patriot Movement. The most recent issue:


Ron Paul! Ron Paul! Ron Paul!




Sheesh.

[ref]

They have now posted two videos from the AIA Washington convention.

The first video is about Gage presenting their booth. The usual "evidence" presentation is included. This time he (among other things) talks about upward arching streamers (you know the debris that they claim was blown upwards), and squibs that are only caused by explosives, not compressed air. Yawn. He also mentions 15 floors of the north tower being destroyed before there was any downward movement. Double yawn.

The second video shows some architects at their booth. It's also a total yawner, so I didn't bother to watch most of it. From what I could see, he tells the unsuspecting visitors what they should think, then promotes his upcoming presentation at some local venue. And gives away brochures and DVD's.

I won't even link to those clips. Those who want to torture themselves can easily find them anyway.

[boloboffin]

Latest tweet (http://twitter.com/AE911Truth/status/3316263661) from these... people.

will be presenting at a mosque in New Jersey during Ramadan on Thursday Sep. 10th. 500 people expected to attend!

Richard Gage and AE911Truth are now officially terrorist sympathizers and apologists.

ETA: You know, this is big enough to get its own thread.

[boloboffin]

Just renewed the .info domain name today - two more years to finish the site! LOL.

And I picked up .mobi at the same time. I figured, why not?

[boloboffin]

You may recall AE911Truth being busted for using an altered soundtrack on an Oslo, Norway controlled demolition. The soundtrack had actual explosions, but they had been clipped out, and the truncated soundtrack moved up to start with the beginning of the video. After that was pointed out here at JREF, AE911Truth did stop using the clip.

They have begun using it again (http://www.ae911truth.net/ppt_web/2hour/videos_hi/A2_30_OSLO_DEMO_2.flv), altered soundtrack and all. It's currently part of their most recent iteration of the slideshow presentation.

Again, for anyone who wants to compare the audio of this clip to another one, here's the same demolition at YouTube.

ZAyyHQQXX_0

:26 though :29 on that video corresponds to the beginning of the AE911Truth clip. The sound isn't that good, but you can clearly hear the explosive charges going off, and then dying away to the sounds of the building collapsing. The AE911Truth clip has no such explosive sounds or dying away. They have only the sounds of the building falling, even though you can clearly see charges going off.

By beginning to use this clip again, AE911Truth has once again demonstrated that it is NOT in the business of seeking the truth.

[LashL]

By beginning to use this clip again, AE911Truth has once again demonstrated that it is NOT in the business of seeking the truth.


Indeed. Initially, they could claim that they did not know that the audio was manipulated, and could blame its use on their own faulty "research" rather than deliberate deception. But now, having previously removed it when it was pointed out that it was manipulated, they cannot pretend that their deception is unintentional. That is pretty compelling evidence in favour of the proposition that they are simply out to fleece fools rather than out to seek or promote truth (or reality).

[ref]

By beginning to use this clip again, AE911Truth has once again demonstrated that it is NOT in the business of seeking the truth.

Their only business is to seek more followers :) Tricks like this are incredibly stupid and easy to point out. I wonder why they don't care.

[Scott Sommers]

I don't think it matters to most of the people they're attacting. The goal is no longer to attract brand new members who have never heard of 911 Truth. The situation now is much like cult religious groups and membership is more akin to circulation. I've now been in some degree of personal contact with dozens of people who have some level of interest in the idea that government is not composed of 'ordinary' people and is instead preparing to kill most of us. These would be the people who give their time and money to the reproduction of these ideas. Most of the effort of 911 Truth groups seems to be in atttracting these people's resources from other interests they may have.

On JREFF, we hear alot from fresh people who were recruited directly into 911 Truth. These people would make up a minority of 911 Truth members. My guess is they're relatively easy to talk with through the standard type of information dissemination members here are practiced at.

Does this sound reasonable?

[Grizzly Bear]

By beginning to use this clip again, AE911Truth has once again demonstrated that it is NOT in the business of seeking the truth.

I personally would have rather seen them be incompetent over deliberately lying, but then again the arguments they push are so obviously stupid it's hard to just call it all incompetence. Them reusing that video strengthens my view of them as liars as if that hadn't already been clear.

[alienentity]

I was listening to the 2007 Gage/Craig debate on the Syrett show this am, and thought I'd mention a couple more instances where Gage exposes himself as a deceptive fraud:

Richard Gage 17:38 'if you wanted the buildngs to come down and blame it on fire , which is not explosive in nature, you would use a different type of charge. You would use an incendiary to cut the beams; you would not use explosives which would give away your project. Thermite is a high-tech incendiary which is used by the military to cut thru steel like a hot knife thru butter'

But he had just argued that, due to the pulverization of materials, an unnatural collapse had occurred, and there was absolutely no way fire could have brought down the buildngs anyway. Presuming he is correct, any competent fire investigation would have determined this as well, so the hypothetical 'cover story' wouldn't have worked!He has already debunked his theory! This shows his arguments are not only based on faulty or false premises, they are internally inconsistent or contradictory.

Perhaps Gage is simply delusional, and not deliberately misleading. I really can't say, except that he's making a lot of false claims.


..20:30 'The firemen found tons of molten metal flowing like lava. The world Trade Centre structural engineer Leslie Robertson says it's flowing after 21 days. Still flowing, molten metal. And nobody knew where all this was coming from..

He later calls Robertson a 'viable witness' (22:20)

This is truly remarkable. Leslie Robertson is used as a witness to molten metal, and yet his core expertise is that he actually designed the WTC towers. Does Gage quote Robertson's expert opinion on the collapse of the towers? Absolutely not, because Robertson obviously knows that the towers collapsed due to fire, and thinks that the CD theory is 'preposterous.
Is it misleading and deceptive for Richard Gage to omit such important testimony? You bet it is.

This is very clear evidence that Gage intends to deceive his audiences. I can't claim to know what Gage is really trying to accomplish with these tactics, but uncovering the truth is clearly not the focus - there is another motivation at play.

[funk de fino]

He is a lying POS and those who defend him are no better.

[Justin39640]

I

This is very clear evidence that Gage intends to deceive his audiences. I can't claim to know what Gage is really trying to accomplish with these tactics, but uncovering the truth is clearly not the focus - there is another motivation at play.

i thought the cardboard box think was more than enough evidence :D (an that he is clearly aiming at the demo - IQ = shoe size)

what else motivates people
money
why else would he have the option of a $911 donation - to pull at heartstrings and open your wallet

****** sickening, slimy little ****

[Whiplash]

With all due respect to my fellow debunkers, calling "liar!" constantly, and loudly, is clearly not having any effect on these fools.

They either are convinced that they are not lying, or they don't care that they are lying. But people keep going "you are filthy liars!" in a manner that implies they think it's going to eventually settle in and humble these people. It's clearly not.

I dunno, I don't mean to be negative here. I just keep seeing this same thing over and over, and it going nowhere, and I can't help but wonder if there is a point to it anymore. Calling them liars is not having the desired effect, at all.

[Bluesky]

I was listening to the 2007 Gage/Craig debate on the Syrett show this am, and thought I'd mention a couple more instances where Gage exposes himself as a deceptive fraud:

Richard Gage 17:38 'if you wanted the buildngs to come down and blame it on fire , which is not explosive in nature, you would use a different type of charge. You would use an incendiary to cut the beams; you would not use explosives which would give away your project. Thermite is a high-tech incendiary which is used by the military to cut thru steel like a hot knife thru butter'

But he had just argued that, due to the pulverization of materials, an unnatural collapse had occurred, and there was absolutely no way fire could have brought down the buildngs anyway. Presuming he is correct, any competent fire investigation would have determined this as well, so the hypothetical 'cover story' wouldn't have worked!He has already debunked his theory! This shows his arguments are not only based on faulty or false premises, they are internally inconsistent or contradictory.

Perhaps Gage is simply delusional, and not deliberately misleading. I really can't say, except that he's making a lot of false claims.


..20:30 'The firemen found tons of molten metal flowing like lava. The world Trade Centre structural engineer Leslie Robertson says it's flowing after 21 days. Still flowing, molten metal. And nobody knew where all this was coming from..

He later calls Robertson a 'viable witness' (22:20)

This is truly remarkable. Leslie Robertson is used as a witness to molten metal, and yet his core expertise is that he actually designed the WTC towers. Does Gage quote Robertson's expert opinion on the collapse of the towers? Absolutely not, because Robertson obviously knows that the towers collapsed due to fire, and thinks that the CD theory is 'preposterous.
Is it misleading and deceptive for Richard Gage to omit such important testimony? You bet it is.

This is very clear evidence that Gage intends to deceive his audiences. I can't claim to know what Gage is really trying to accomplish with these tactics, but uncovering the truth is clearly not the focus - there is another motivation at play.

You need to understand Gage's moral compas. He will say anything and do anything to meet his goal, which is to grow the ae911truth movement. The deliberately false and misleading statement he made above is one of hundreds of examples. He does not have a problem with lying and sculpting the truth to meet his ends. You see he is a 911 zealot and he believes in CD without question, and many would say without reason.

The fact that his leadership of ae911truth gives him some fame/infamy and enough money to travel around the world, is to some degree secondary. However I am sure if he did not have the money or fame he would lose interest pretty quickly.

[Carlos]

I have a question:

What do Gage and AE911Truth say about the WTC7 collapse mechanism described on NIST report?

They agree, disagree or say nothing?

PS: when I say "collapse mechanism" I mean: the thermal expansion -> connections and floors failure -> critical column buckling ...

[ref]

Oh man. They never learn.

Another totally unrealistic goal, that will ultimately fail.

Let's break through 1,000 at a brisk pace – just as gold has broken the $1,000 barrier. We will host a public relations event with a press conference that will feature our 1,000th signer along with Mr. Gage on location when it occurs. This event will need to be well publicized across the country and the world – and we must have your support to make it happen effectively.

We would like to double this accomplishment into 2000 signers before summer of 2010 and with your help we can do it. If each and every one of you will talk to ten friends or colleagues and sign up just two of them, then we will succeed.

http://www.ae911truth.org/info/114

2000 "A&E" signers before the summer of 2010, that is in 6 months? They have spent two and a half years gathering up the first 1000. :faint:

He also once again repeats the lie, that their movement is growing exponentially.

[TruthersLie]

Well you know when they remove that pesky degree and/or licensed architects and engineers and just make it
architectural and engineering professionals it makes it sooooooo much easier. I mean now they can include draftsmen, office workers, copy boys in engineering firms.

Still less than 350 degreed and licensed architects and engineers. And less than 50 structural engineers on that list. Of those, less than a dozen who have any high rise experience.

Absolutely amazing.

[ref]

Just took a quick look at the site.

They still haven't reached the 1000 "A&E" mark.

And it seems they have modified their donation amounts (http://www.ae911truth.org/donations/) a bit. Earlier the smallest monthly donation amount was $10, now they have added a smaller amount of $4.95. They want more cash from the lower end.

But they have also modified the higher end. Earlier they had a somewhat offensive $911 as their highest given monthly donation amount. Now they have rounded it up to an even amount of $1000. So they also want more cash from the higher paying individuals (are there any?). That would make $12000 / year. Ridicilous amount.

[Justin39640]

Just took a quick look at the site.

They still haven't reached the 1000 "A&E" mark.

And it seems they have modified their donation amounts (http://www.ae911truth.org/donations/) a bit. Earlier the smallest monthly donation amount was $10, now they have added a smaller amount of $4.95. They want more cash from the lower end.

But they have also modified the higher end. Earlier they had a somewhat offensive $911 as their highest given monthly donation amount. Now they have rounded it up to an even amount of $1000. So they also want more cash from the higher paying individuals (are there any?). That would make $12000 / year. Ridicilous amount.
At least they took down the "$911 patriot" donation amount per month. That just made me sick. I'm sure he took it down cause of complaints not cause he actually thought appealing for money that way was disgusting.
Gage is a carny and anyone who donates is his rube.

[carlitos]

I have to admit, I didn't realize that they solicited monthly pledges. That explains why they can fly to Asia / Australia and such. This is despicable.

[McHrozni]

Just took a quick look at the site.

They still haven't reached the 1000 "A&E" mark.

And it seems they have modified their donation amounts (http://www.ae911truth.org/donations/) a bit. Earlier the smallest monthly donation amount was $10, now they have added a smaller amount of $4.95. They want more cash from the lower end.

But they have also modified the higher end. Earlier they had a somewhat offensive $911 as their highest given monthly donation amount. Now they have rounded it up to an even amount of $1000. So they also want more cash from the higher paying individuals (are there any?). That would make $12000 / year. Ridicilous amount.

They also failed to raise a rather modest sum of 2,500$ to promote their 1000 members "landmark", in over two months. This is quite ridiculous, architects and engineers tend to be quite well paid, and if they really had just 10 actual job holding architects and engineers in their respective fields that would care about the issue, they could easily solicit that much from them alone. It's not more than half a weeks' wage for a start up low paying job in the field each, after all.

McHrozni

[funk de fino]

Pocket money does not stretch too far in a recession.

[Mr.Herbert]

Looks like Deputy Douche Bag is having another debate.

'The Conspiracy Show' w/Richard Syrett.

This week's program is called:

WHAT CAUSED THE WORLD TRADE CENTRE TOWERS TO COLLAPSE?
A special two hour debate

Richard Syrett holds court as two experts debate whether World Trade Centre Buildings 1, 2, and 7 were brought down by Controlled Demolition.

Guest: Richard Gage is a San Francisco Bay area architect AIA, member of the American Institute of Architects and founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth. Gage has been a practicing Architect for 20 years and has worked on most types of building construction including numerous fire-proofed steel-framed buildings.

Ron Craig is a member of the International Association of Bomb Technicians and Investigators, and member of the Society for Explosives Engineers. He's also an experienced Special Effects Supervisor with over 25 years experience. He has worked on over 50 feature films, 10 television series and numerous commercials. Ron has worked on projects with major studios such as Paramount, HBO, CBS, NBC, and Warner Brothers. In 2007-2008 he was the executive in charge of production for Fraud Squad TV, a prime time television series.

AM740 Toronto on Sunday nights between the hours of 11pm - 1am EST.

or on the internet:

http://zoomerradio.ca/
Didn't he debate this guy before??

[Mr.Herbert]

Pocket money does not stretch too far in a recession.


Gage is accepting more than money... he want's your house!





If you would like to discuss other forms of supporting AE911Truth that are not addressed above (e.g. planned giving, stock, real estate, vehicle donation, airline miles, in-kind, etc) please send an email to AE911Truth Donations (http://about%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:%20to%20e-mail%20AE911Truth) or call 510-292-4710.

If you’d like to volunteer or provide in-kind professional services, please visit our Volunteer page and explore our website for outstanding opportunities to advance the 9/11 Truth Movement via local grassroots groups as well as via your family, friends and co-workers.

[dudalb]

Next Gage will be asking for signed, but otherwise blank, checks.

[carlitos]

Looks like Deputy Douche Bag is having another debate.

Didn't he debate this guy before??

Yes, and it's excellent. Audio link (http://www.checktheevidence.com/audio/911/RichardSyrettShow911TruthDebateRichardGageVsRon%20-%2012%20Nov%202007.MP3).

[LashL]

Looks like Deputy Douche Bag is having another debate.

Didn't he debate this guy before??

Yes, indeed, and I expect that Ron will clean Gage's clock once again, despite Syrett (the host) being inclined to the woo himself. :)

[Edx]

I am really looking forward to that new Ron Craig debate. I wonder long it takes for Gage to talk about the INTENSE explosives that flung steel and material away from the building but also silent because they used thermite.

LOL

I'd have to make a new Richard Gage Contradictions video.

[newton3376]

Yes, indeed, and I expect that Ron will clean Gage's clock once again, despite Syrett (the host) being inclined to the woo himself. :)

I wonder if Gage will bother to bring up Jones "nano-super-dooper-unobtainium thermite".....

[carlitos]

The description of that show reads exactly like the recorded debate I posted. I was wondering if it just be a repeat broadcast. I emailed Richard Syrett and will post his answer here if he checks in before the show.
c

[LashL]

No, it is not a repeat. (Ron is a friend of mine in real life, and we've discussed the upcoming show, so I know this to be the case.)

[RedIbis]

I wonder if Gage will bother to bring up Jones "nano-super-dooper-unobtainium thermite".....

Ha! Nice Avatar reference. A good example of how subtle that movie's message was. Not to derail, but was I the only person who thought that movie sucked?

[carlitos]

No, it is not a repeat. (Ron is a friend of mine in real life, and we've discussed the upcoming show, so I know this to be the case.)

Thanks!

ETA - from my inbox:
Carl
This is a brand new, live show with some new information from both sides. Shoud be a good one. Thanks for your interest.

Richard

[newton3376]

Has anyone read the "bio" of those registered at AE911Truth?

It is really quite depressing.....the reasons they give for douting the "official"*** story are unbelievable. I can barely believe these are the statements of experienced engineers...I highly doubt they jump to conclusions like this in their daily work.

It amazes me that they can do such in depth research at work and yet be so shallow on this issue, especially since it is an engineering question.

I'm ashamed that there are so many EE's on that list....

Someone should do a "Project Steve" for 911....

Okay...my rant is over.


***I put official in quotes because there isn't really an official story of how the buildings came down...that is an engineering question and has been answered by various publications and authors....like NIST, Bazant, etc.

[newton3376]

Ha! Nice Avatar reference. A good example of how subtle that movie's message was. Not to derail, but was I the only person who thought that movie sucked?

Actually it was more of a reference to the movie "The Core" which also had "unobtainium"....but yes "Avatar" also used that word.

I thought the special effects were awesome, but the story line sucked big time. It was another cookie cutter-predictable-hollywood cliches movie.

You are not the only person I assure you.

[carlitos]

LashL, it would be helpful if Ron was aware of Steven Jones' "thermite retreat (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=162996)" if he's not already. Just a thought.

[johnny karate]

... was I the only person who thought that movie sucked?

RedIbis and I have at last found some common ground.

Cue the Four Horseman.

[grandthefttoaster]

LashL, it would be helpful if Ron was aware of Steven Jones' "thermite retreat (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=162996)" if he's not already. Just a thought.

Yes, in the last debate, Gage said that explosions weren't heard because it wasn't a conventional demolition. It would be great to see what Gage has to say about this:

I briefly expressed my hypothesis that nanothermite served as an igniting agent, as in the “super-thermite matches” described in our paper, to ignite more conventional explosives such as C4 or HMX, in the destruction of the WTC buildings... The top-down destruction of the Towers in this model would doubtless require more explosives than would a conventional controlled demolition.

[RedIbis]

RedIbis and I have at last found some common ground.

Cue the Four Horseman.

Nothing like a vacuous and cliched script, hopelessly consumed by CGI to bring discerning film fans together.

I really wish I would have went to see The Road, which is next up for me.

[LashL]

LashL, it would be helpful if Ron was aware of Steven Jones' "thermite retreat (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=162996)" if he's not already. Just a thought.

Yes, in the last debate, Gage said that explosions weren't heard because it wasn't a conventional demolition. It would be great to see what Gage has to say about this:


Indeed. I sent Ron some links (although he may have already been aware of these things, it can't hurt to have the direct quotes and such). Thanks, guys.

[Edx]

Indeed. I sent Ron some links (although he may have already been aware of these things, it can't hurt to have the direct quotes and such). Thanks, guys.

You should send him the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MusSulcJwSk) I did with his last debate.

[LashL]

You should send him the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MusSulcJwSk) I did with his last debate.

Sent. :)

[LashL]

Listening live... this is great. I missed the first half hour but ...

http://zoomerradio.ca/

Ron is absolutely rocking. Dick is ... well, Dicking himself (er, um, or maybe JAQing off, or maybe dicksing his own potatoes?)

[LashL]

Laughing my butt off listening to this... Gage is totally out of his element, and doesn't have a clue.

Ron Craig is serving him fully and completely.

[LashL]

Dick says: pyroclastic clouds and all of his old, tired, nonsense...

Ron rips him a new one.

Gotta love it.

[LashL]

Dick says 90,000 tons of concrete "pulverized" into talcum powder, is he channeling Judy Wood?

[LashL]

Dick: "Very special explosives including nano thermite" ... "220 acres of decking disappeared."

I can hardly wait for Ron's response to this.

[JamesB]

This is hilarious. Nanothermite, the philosopher's stone of 9/11 truth. Anytime Craig asks him something he can't explain he says "It was a super secret high tech explosive!"

[LashL]

Anytime Craig asks him something he can't explain he says "It was a super secret high tech explosive!"

Yep, it's pretty funny to listen to.

Ron is kicking Dick's ass, and Dick is shuffling off into a corner somewhere.

What's most hilarious is that Syrett is a total tinhatter himself.

[LashL]

Long notes omitted.

Ron Craig completely kicked ass. Richard Gage completely failed.

Great job, Ron!

[JamesB]

"[the Bentham nano-thermite paper] is taking scientific circles by storm."

My favorite Gage quote so far.

:dl:

[CompusMentus]

"No boogey-man" *********** A Ron!

Compus

[LashL]

Dick: "...a whole bunch of nonsensical crap, trying very very very hard to present anything even remotely coherent" and failing horrendously.

Ron: "I assure you there's no bogey man here"

Yep, Ron wins, hands down.

[LashL]

I've tried to get in on the phone since they opened up the lines, but no joy.

In any event, Ron has kicked Gage's ass, every which way. Gotta love it.

[LashL]

Heh, now Gage is trying to sell his DVDs again... what a scumbag.

[LashL]

Ron Craig did a fabulous job of decimating Gage.

Excellent, indeed.

[ref]

I wonder how long it takes for ae911truth to

a) declare themselves victorious
b) ignore the entire show, and act as if it never took place.

:rolleyes:

[A W Smith]

Missed it, Will there be archived audio of the show? Linkey?

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Dick: "Very special explosives including nano thermite" ...


Oh man... Nano-thermite is a special-needs explosive? I feel a little guilty now. :(

[JamesB]

They all declared victory, because Craig could not disprove the existence of supermagiconanothermite. They made it into an MP3.

http://www.ae911truth.org/media/100110-Richard_Gage_v_Ron_Craig-2of2.mp3

[A W Smith]

Can someone explain to me @ 41 minutes, what Gage means by "The constituency of talcum powder" ??


:dl:

[JamesB]

Well I for one would never vote for talcum powder. Not unless I was really chafed at least.

[LashL]

Listening to the debate again, Gage consistently comes across as nothing but an inane, uneducated, incoherent rabbit on speed. A ranting, railing idiot. I can't even imagine how anyone can possibly put any stock in anything he says. I find it difficult to fathom how even "truther" loons believe this moron.

And yes, "the constituency of talcum powder" comment was humorous. Gage's "very special explosives, including nanothermite" is funnier, though, and Gage's expectation of finding stacks of 110 floors of metal and concrete piled up at the bottom of the collapsed buildings is utterly and insanely ridiculous. The man is a raving lunatic.

Ron kicked Gage's butt by resort to reality, as expected. Yet, Gage doesn't even seem to realize it. He's nuts.

[JamesB]

Yeah, that reminded me of my favorite psychotic Gage quote:

"Not one floor is found in what we are told is a 110 story gravitational pancake collapse. There is a couple of 3 stories of structural steel, a pile, and aluminum cladding. There are no floors found at either of these twin towers. Where did they go? We're going to Denny's, we're looking for pancakes. We don't find any."

-Richard Gage-

[LashL]

I should be surprised by that quote but, unfortunately, I am not. The lunacy is great with this one (Gage). He can't even control his voice, and all he does is spout off his usual nonsensical sound bites in a strident and over the top manner. He consistently sounds like he's on the very end of his tether. I fear for the man's sanity, frankly.

Back to the audio... LMAO @ "nanothermite" being something new and LMAO even harder at Gage saying it's been the subject of a "peer reviewed" "scientific paper" in the Bentham rag that "has taken scientific circles by storm" ... this is too hilarious for words, really.

Gage says that thermite is an "extremely sophisticated material" not made in a cave in Afghanistan... what a moron.

I also noticed how Gage completely ignored Ron's point that Steven Jones himself backed off of his "nanothermite cut the columns" and instead backtracked to "nanothermite was only used as a fuse for conventional explosives" and Gage continues to spout nonsense that even Jones no longer supports.

[Telltale Tom]

As our great leader Mr Gage says we have millions of supporters and I am really excited that we are just about to pass an important landmark, with 1,000 Architects and Engineers signing the petition, which proves Controlled Demolition.

Unfortunately there are only 9 registered architects from NY who have signed the petition. These are:
David Helpern
Eric Douglas
Michael Coffey
Alan Haymand
William Brinnir
Michael Quiana
Cary Spiegel
Daniel Hirtler
Jeffrey Orling

I really hope that the verification of Peter Scaglione comes through, because it would be good if we could have 10 real architects from New York when we break through the 1,000 barrier.

I don't know whats wrong with these New york architects. You would think they would have cared about the towers and bothered to have looked at the evidence. I am sure there are many more who believe in CD who havent found the petition.

[Mr.Herbert]

As our great leader Mr Gage says we have millions of supporters and I am really excited that we are just about to pass an important landmark, with 1,000 Architects and Engineers signing the petition, which proves Controlled Demolition.

Unfortunately there are only 9 registered architects from NY who have signed the petition. These are:
David Helpern
Eric Douglas
Michael Coffey
Alan Haymand
William Brinnir
Michael Quiana
Cary Spiegel
Daniel Hirtler
Jeffrey Orling

I really hope that the verification of Peter Scaglione comes through, because it would be good if we could have 10 real architects from New York when we break through the 1,000 barrier.

I don't know whats wrong with these New york architects. You would think they would have cared about the towers and bothered to have looked at the evidence. I am sure there are many more who believe in CD who havent found the petition.

Please explain how .0001% of the Engineering/Architect population signing a petition is proof of anything.

I predict this is another drive-by truthing.

[sadhatter]

Tom it is quality not quantity.

I could convince 2000 people i had psychic powers, dons't mean i am right.

What you need are some engineers who currently have high ranking jobs, and are respected in their fields , otherwise, what do these people have to lose by being wrong?

[Telltale Tom]

Tom it is quality not quantity.

I could convince 2000 people i had psychic powers, dons't mean i am right.

What you need are some engineers who currently have high ranking jobs, and are respected in their fields , otherwise, what do these people have to lose by being wrong?

I doubt you could get people to sign a petition. We also have 5 licensed structural and civil engineers from New York.

Joseph Testa
Donald Butterfield
Richard Sheridan
Roberk Randal
Ephriam Resnick

I know that Joseph Testa says that he mainly design roads but I am sure that the others must have some good experience. I admit the numbers are a bit lower than I expect. But engineers are boring and they might not of seen the massive videos we have on youtube.

Our videos are so much better than anything else. If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us.

[R.Mackey]

Welcome, Telltale Tom.

Perhaps you can clear something up for me. You've remarked that your group puts out much more content than its competitors. Perhaps you can direct me to the wealth of engineering journal or conference papers that they've produced? I haven't been able to locate even a single one.

YouTube, in case you have no clue whatsoever what an engineer or an architect actually does, is hardly the right place.

Thanks in advance.

[sadhatter]

Are you willing to put something on the line i cannot get 2000 people to sign an online petition?

Actually wait, its kinda painfully obvious by your comments like

"We also have 5 licensed structural and civil engineers from New York."

"I know that Joseph Testa says that he mainly design roads but I am sure that the others must have some good experience."

"But engineers are boring and they might not of seen the massive videos we have on youtube."

"Our videos are so much better than anything else. If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us. "

That your just joking, anyone posting that would realize how silly that made them sound. Well good luck with tryin to be funny and all. Maybe it will work out here eventually.

Still though if you could get me some kind of legal document signed by the AE9/11 truth people that they will take down their website if i can get 2000 signatures ( using the same criteria they do to validate the signatures) proclaiming my psychic ability is real, i will take them up on the offer.

won't be holding my breath though.

[leftysergeant]

Our videos are so much better than anything else. If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us.

No, they aren't even up to the standards of an Unsecured Coins comedy video. They all repeat the same three or four BS theories.

According to idiot boy Gage, "verinage" doesn't work. I put his IQ at about 80 on that basis. Thus may be because of some sort of brain damage leading to demintia or substance abuse. He gets about as excited as some tweakers I have known.

[Brainster]

It can be hard to tell, but I think TT is being facetious.

[TruthersLie]

Welcome to the forums TT. I concur with Brainster, I think it is sarcasm. (that is the way I read it).

[Mr.Herbert]

http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/statusicon/post_new.gif Today, 07:34 PM #899 (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=5521267&postcount=899) Brainster (http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=9777)
Philosopher

http://forums.randi.org/customavatars/avatar9777_10.gif (http://forums.randi.org/member.php?u=9777)

Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,969


Check out the post count!

[/ juvenile post ]

[R.Mackey]

It has been said before, but it speaks volumes that we can't tell. :p

[leftysergeant]

It is easier for a rational person to play a twoofer than for a twoofer to pass for rational.

[vinniem]

Thanks for posting the recent debate. Coincidentally, I happened to hear the first debate between Ron and Richard just a few days ago and it should be interesting to see how this one goes. I am listening now.

IMO Richard won the first debate.

[Furcifer]

As our great leader Mr Gage says... snip

Welcome to the forums.

This is tongue in cheek right?

[Furcifer]

IMO Richard won the first debate.

Welcome to the forums.

This is tongue in cheek right?

[vinniem]

Welcome to the forums.

This is tongue in cheek right?

No, seriously. Not saying I agree with everything Gage says but it appeared to me that Ron was arguing from incredulity throughout the first debate. I think he may have been a little underprepared for the debate but that is fair enough seeing as Gage does this full-time.

In the second debate, did I just hear Richard Gage say that Ron Craig is fully behind a new investigation???

Edited to add:

I have just replayed it and it seems Ron Craig supports a new investigation into wtc7.

[A W Smith]

As our great leader Mr Gage says we have millions of supporters and I am really excited that we are just about to pass an important landmark, with 1,000 Architects and Engineers signing the petition, which proves Controlled Demolition.

Unfortunately there are only 9 registered architects from NY who have signed the petition. These are:
David Helpern
Eric Douglas
Michael Coffey
Alan Haymand
William Brinnir
Michael Quiana
Cary Spiegel
Daniel Hirtler
Jeffrey Orling

I really hope that the verification of Peter Scaglione comes through, because it would be good if we could have 10 real architects from New York when we break through the 1,000 barrier.

I don't know whats wrong with these New york architects. You would think they would have cared about the towers and bothered to have looked at the evidence. I am sure there are many more who believe in CD who havent found the petition.

I doubt you could get people to sign a petition. We also have 5 licensed structural and civil engineers from New York.

Joseph Testa
Donald Butterfield
Richard Sheridan
Roberk Randal
Ephriam Resnick

I know that Joseph Testa says that he mainly design roads but I am sure that the others must have some good experience. I admit the numbers are a bit lower than I expect. But engineers are boring and they might not of seen the massive videos we have on youtube.

Our videos are so much better than anything else. If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us.

Absent of any legitimate peer reviewed and published papers. you know what this list represents? Right?

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#authority

[Telltale Tom]

Whats the big deal about peer reviewed papers. We have our peer reviewed videos and a lot more evidence in that department than the debunkers.

And now that we have hit 1,000 I expect we will hit 2,000 in a couple of years. Look at the petition we have a nice selection of engineers from Europe and Austalia but we have hardly touched the middle eastern or south east asian markets.

And people don't realize how easy it is to get on our lists. Look at the petition. What about Bernard Villiem from France with a degree in pre-history and anthropology or Christian Hostettler an Electrical Auttomation consultant from Australia. When people find out how easy it is to sign up our numbers will climb rapidly and we will reach 2,000 in no time.

[TruthersLie]

TT.

It is rather amusing noting how easy it is to get on that list... I mean if george jetson, fred flintstone and barney rubble can get on it (they all have at one point in time), then it must not be too hard.

[Kevin.Silbstedt]

It is rather amusing noting how easy it is to get on that list... I mean if george jetson, fred flintstone and barney rubble can get on it (they all have at one point in time), then it must not be too hard.

I don't know what you mean, those are all well respected engineers. :D

Do you have a source for that? That would be excellent material for further discussions.

Whats the big deal about peer reviewed papers. We have our peer reviewed videos

This is one of the dumbest statements I have ever seen. I'm sure youtube puts all the videos into peer review process before "publishing" them on their site. :rolleyes:

[Thunder]

And now that we have hit 1,000 I expect we will hit 2,000 in a couple of years.

yeah, so what? why can't you get a new investigation with 1,000 members?

2,000 is the magic number? 1,000 ain't enough?

how can you not see the comedy and stupidity in these endeavors?

pathetic.

[carlitos]

Whats the big deal about peer reviewed papers. We have our peer reviewed videos and a lot more evidence in that department than the debunkers.
:bigclap

[TruthersLie]

I don't know what you mean, those are all well respected engineers. :D

Do you have a source for that? That would be excellent material for further discussions.


Hi Kevin.

I have seen screen captures of the AEtruth, scholars for truth petition pages with those names on them. I do not have a copy of it bookmarked. I'll look and see if I can find it.

[beachnut]

I doubt you could get people to sign a petition. We also have 5 licensed structural and civil engineers from New York.

Joseph Testa
Donald Butterfield
Richard Sheridan
Roberk Randal
Ephriam Resnick

I know that Joseph Testa says that he mainly design roads but I am sure that the others must have some good experience. I admit the numbers are a bit lower than I expect. But engineers are boring and they might not of seen the massive videos we have on youtube.

Our videos are so much better than anything else. If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us.


Ephraim Resnick is about 89 years old, bet he hates Bush. Most likely a pure political stand, he offers zero calculations and zero evidence except he knows the delusional conspiracy theories sound better than the complex kill pilots, take planes, crash into big buildings.

Roberk Randal did some structural design of nuclear submarines, power plants, commercial & residential buildings; he has questions, no evidence just questions; a real winner... can't figure out 911 so he signs up with a fraud who spews thermite

Where is the evidence to save Gage? These guys can't help, they only have questions; professional askers of questions. lol, 1000 of them. Wow, 1000 professional 3 year olds!!!

[tfk]

As our great leader Mr Gage says ...
we have millions of supporters ...
we are just about to pass an important landmark, with 1,000 Architects and Engineers signing the petition ...
which proves Controlled Demolition.

Unfortunately there are only 9 registered architects from NY ...

it would be good if we could have 10 real architects from New York ...

I don't know whats wrong with these New york architects...
You would think they would have cared about the towers ...
I am sure there are many more who believe in CD who havent found the petition.



I doubt you could get people to sign a petition...
We also have 5 licensed structural and civil engineers from New York...

I know that Joseph Testa says that he mainly design roads but ...
I am sure that the others must have some good experience...
I admit the numbers are a bit lower than I expect...

[my fave. -tk]
But engineers are boring ...

they might not of seen the massive videos we have on youtube.

Our videos are so much better than anything else...
If you go to youtube we must have at least 20 videos for every one that tries to debunk us.


I call shenanigans.

More specifically, Poe's Law (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law).


Tom

[tfk]

I call shenanigans.

More specifically, Poe's Law (http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe%27s_Law).


Tom

And that was before I got to "peer reviewed (YouTube) videos".

Now I call "Double Shenanigans".

That other Tom tuggeth our lower extremities.


Tom

[DGM]

no seriously, you are just making **** up, right?


Technical all his friends (peers) watched them so they're "peer reviewed".:rolleyes:



:duck:

[tfk]

Technical all his friends (peers) watched them so they're "peer reviewed".:rolleyes:

:duck:


Perhaps "peer reviewed" = "seen by at least one British aristocrat"??

Tom

PS. Who do they think that they're kidding, anyway. They don't think of each other as "peers". Otherwise they would segregate into Barons, Earls, Viscounts, etc.

About as honest a term as "reality TV".

[bill smith]

Listening to the debate again, Gage consistently comes across as nothing but an inane, uneducated, incoherent rabbit on speed. A ranting, railing idiot. I can't even imagine how anyone can possibly put any stock in anything he says. I find it difficult to fathom how even "truther" loons believe this moron.

And yes, "the constituency of talcum powder" comment was humorous. Gage's "very special explosives, including nanothermite" is funnier, though, and Gage's expectation of finding stacks of 110 floors of metal and concrete piled up at the bottom of the collapsed buildings is utterly and insanely ridiculous. The man is a raving lunatic.

Ron kicked Gage's butt by resort to reality, as expected. Yet, Gage doesn't even seem to realize it. He's nuts.
Still Counselor he does constituently vonvince well over 90% of every audience that he speaks to,technical or otherwise that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition.

Not only floors. I believe he was wondering where the 110 ACRES of floorpans were gone. Also the double layer of steel floor reinforcing- some 220 ACRES in all. H didn't even mention where most of the 10 MILES of core columns were gone.Even if most of the concrete was converted to micron-sized particles the steel should all remain. It's not in the rubble. It's-just-not-there.

So all in all it is entirely evident that you are completely and utterly wrong. Richard Gage is massively effective and proves it time after time after time..

[Dave Rogers]

Technical all his friends (peers) watched them so they're "peer reviewed".:rolleyes:

But peer reviewed means they have to watch them twice. It's a hard life in the truth movement.

Dave

[AJM8125]

Just so I'm clear, this is the same Richard Gage that claims this non existent steel was blown 600 ft away by explosives?

[vinniem]

Having listened to the full debate now, I am going to be fair and say that Ron performed much better than he did in the first debate.

Ron seemed to nail down some details that had Gage on the run, although he still tried to handwave a few of Gage's arguments.

All in all, I would say it was a win for Ron, but that is partly because I don't think Richard Gage represents the truth movement very well at all. I would like a debate between Jones and Craig.

There was a debate between Jones and Leslie Robertson a few years ago in which, in my opinion, Jones handed Robertson his ass.

I am still interested in what Gage said a few minutes into the debate. He said that he was glad that Ron was fully supporting a new investigation into WTC7. Ron didn't correct him so I assume it is true. Anybody know anything about this?

[beachnut]

...

There was a debate between Jones and Leslie Robertson a few years ago in which, in my opinion, Jones handed Robertson his ass.
... Got delusions like Jones? Yes you do...

Why did you make this failed statement? Because you lack knowledge?

Jones has delusions.
Robertson builds large buildings

Jones got fired for spewing delusions.
Robertson gets work to build buildings.

Jones makes up thermite.
Robertson says Jones ideas are nonsense.

You and Jones win the dirt dumb delusion award; good going!

[Telltale Tom]

Still Counselor he does constituently vonvince well over 90% of every audience that he speaks to,technical or otherwise that the buildings were destroyed by controlled demolition.

Not only floors. I believe he was wondering where the 110 ACRES of floorpans were gone. Also the double layer of steel floor reinforcing- some 220 ACRES in all. H didn't even mention where most of the 10 MILES of core columns were gone.Even if most of the concrete was converted to micron-sized particles the steel should all remain. It's not in the rubble. It's-just-not-there.

So all in all it is entirely evident that you are completely and utterly wrong. Richard Gage is massively effective and proves it time after time after time..

Completely agree Bill we need to build more momentum. I don't know why we only have five licensed structural/civil engineers in New York State and another five in the tristate area. I think that structural and civil engineers are either too lazy and have not bothered to see Richard's evidence or they just don't care.

I think we really need to recruit more licensed engineers. THe ASCE conference annual conference normally attracts about 10,000 structural and civil engineers. They fly in from all around the states to catch up with their training and discuss hot engineering topics. The 137th conference is in Orlando this year.

So we just need to get Richard down there. Even if they don't let him speak, we could hand out fliers and give a conference in a nearby hotel.

Richard is so effective and can convince 95% of the people he speaks to. It must increase our numbers. So lets raise funds for the ASCE conference and the New York State tour. What could be a better way of celebrating our first 1,000 architects and engineer professionals.

[BigAl]

Completely agree Bill we need to build more momentum. I don't know why we only have five licensed structural/civil engineers in New York State and another five in the tristate area.

I attribute this to the fact that essentially every local engineer either saw some aspect of WTC or knows some engineer that did. There were lots of engineers on-site by the time WTC7 collapsed. They all know that fire and the lack of firefighting was the basic cause of the collapse of WTC1, 2, and 7.

This is just like the fact that there are NO eyewitnesses to the collapse of the towers that claim that man-made demolition was the cause. That would be 100s of thousands of eyewitnesses.

You could prove me wrong by naming someone along with their quote.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

So we just need to get Richard down there. Even if they don't let him speak, we could hand out fliers and give a conference in a nearby hotel.


Indeed. Repeat the successes of last year. :)

[Sam.I.Am]

Richard is so effective and can convince 95% of the people he speaks to.

96% walk in believing him to start off.

[Obviousman]

I have to disagree. I'm about 80% through it and I am disturbed by a few points:

- Gage get probably 5 times more "talk time" than Craig. I haven't gone through and checked the actual ratio, but I don't think I'd be too far wrong.

- Gage interrupted Craig on a couple of occasions (with long statements) and the host just let him run on.

- Just how many times did Gage "pimp" his website?

- Although Craig was calm and reasoned, he let Gage get away with too many irrelevant or incorrect points.

Edited to add: And Gage kept referring to Jones discredited study; he should have made Gage stick to 'engineering', not chemistry.

I don't think Ron Craig effectively debated Gage.

Listening live... this is great. I missed the first half hour but ...

http://zoomerradio.ca/

Ron is absolutely rocking. Dick is ... well, Dicking himself (er, um, or maybe JAQing off, or maybe dicksing his own potatoes?)

[thecritta]

Wrong again. Pushing lies like this pretty much expose you as a no evidence guy.

You need to work with people who do welding and cutting. Experience and knowledge are useful if you want to try to push lies so you can do a better job. At least 9/11 truth is no better than your attempted false information excursion.

If you are trying to say this was cut by thermite to bring down the WTC, you are making up stuff or just telling a lie. Which is it?

Jesus farkin christ how many times do people have to bring this photo up
it must have been discussed on the internet in relation to 911 for
the 100,000 time nothing can be established from it really as far
as i can tell.

You see look this the problem when you recycle all the evidence
because later no one can tell what really did it the quickest way to
solve the head splitting debate would be to do a farkin forensic test of
the slag hanging of the steel

[Edx]

Jesus farkin christ how many times do people have to bring this photo up
it must have been discussed on the internet in relation to 911 for
the 100,000 time nothing can be established from it really as far
as i can tell.

You see look this the problem when you recycle all the evidence
because later no one can tell what really did it the quickest way to
solve the head splitting debate would be to do a farkin forensic test of
the slag hanging of the steel

The fact that you think "nothing can be established" rather than just saying this was another Steven Jones faisl is why it will keep getting brought up I suspect.

[Dave Rogers]

Jesus farkin christ how many times do people have to bring this photo up

Beachnut posted that in March 2008. What kind of stupidity does it take to reply to a two-year-old post with a complaint that people won't drop the subject?

Dave

[Edx]

Just listening to the debate now.

At about 61 mins Ron says there was no molten metal AT ALL! I don't agree with that at all.

Shame we can't glue Mark Roberts and Ron Craig together. Speaking of Mark, its a shame he didn't do a long debate like this

[Telltale Tom]

Well at least the truth movement people have got the guts to speak out to the public.

On Feb 19th we will be speaking out in San Fransisco at the Marines Memorial Club and Hotel at 11am to celebrate reaching our first 1,000 architects and/or engineers with degrees and/or licenses from around the world. ( See the location, even the marines think it was an inside job.!)

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight. You might think we are crazy but at least we will stand up for our beliefs. Where are the millions of licensed engineers that dont believe in CD now.?

We have more licensed structural/civil engineers in CA than in any other state. We have a total of 10 licensed structural/civil engineers, including 3 people with SE credentials, which means they are even allowed to design tall buildings. ( I bet there are hardly any of them in CA) . Our SE heroes are:

Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE

I can't wait to see an explosion of activity in the media.

[beachnut]

... Our SE heroes are:

Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE

I can't wait to see an explosion of activity in the media.
... three people who have no clue they support moronic ideas on 911. That would be cool if we educate the media and expose the Gage fraud where Gage collects money and travels spreading lies to hook more idiots to donate more money.

Next time bring some evidence from these clueless members of Gage delusion club to help see how stupid they are on 911.

... lol, Ron Brookman studied 911 so well he can't get the collapse time right for the towers of WTC7. Good for you a failure on 911 and apologizing for terrorists with not real capability to understand 911. He would really like to know? How truthy of him, he must not have much knowledge of physics, or structural engineering; another failed statement of paranoid junk.
I would really like to know why complete collapse of the twin towers "became inevitable" as expressed by NIST without any scientific analysis to substantiate it. Why would all 110 stories drop straight down to the ground in about 10 seconds, pulverizing most of the contents into dust and ash - twice? Why would WTC 7 fall straight down to the ground in about seven seconds the same day? It was not struck by any aircraft or engulfed in any fire. An independent investigation is justified - and necessary - for all three collapses. http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=997441 8 years and he has no clue what he is talking about.

David Topete goes all out and presents; his lack of knowledge.
I am curious to know more about WTC 7, and how that structure collapsed, while no other adjacent structures suffered such fate. http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=997372
Good for Topete, another failed 911 truther, he does not post much like Ron did, as Ron uses NIST to support his delusions and at the same time tried to discredit NIST. So far 2 experts with no knowledge and Zero evidence to support the idiotic nonsense of Gage.

Will Kamal Obeid be able to apologize effectively for terrorists and save Gage's lies from the bit bucket?
Only recently have I begun to examine the structural collapse of the buildings. Photos of the steel, evidence about how the buildings collapsed, the unexplainable collapse of WTC 7, evidence of thermite in the debris as well as several other red flags, are quite troubling indications of well planned and controlled demolition. http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=998760
No evidence just rumors of red flags, and it seems Obeid forgot to learn to read and can't comment professionally on the NIST report on WTC7. Thermite makes Kamal's support a failure.

Three uniformed paranoid conspiracy theorists who may not realize they are paranoid conspiracy theorists supporting the idiotic rant and insane delusions of Gage. I have a feeling the media would love to expose a few professionals who claim to be architects but can't understand structures and have to make up delusions to feed their paranoid minds.

[Arus808]

Well at least the truth movement people have got the guts to speak out to the public.

of course while charging them a fee in order to listen to their speech.

[W.D.Clinger]

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight.
Are gutless non-truthers so rare in San Francisco? Oh I see, you're talking about the Marines Memorial Club.

Looks as though thecritta is jealous of Telltale Tom's polemical success, and may be trying to outdo him.
:popcorn1

[Thunder]

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight. You might think we are crazy but at least we will stand up for our beliefs.

non-Truther? you mean...like...the other 330 million people in America?

[Justin39640]

Jesus farkin christ how many times do people have to bring this photo up
it must have been discussed on the internet in relation to 911 for
the 100,000 time nothing can be established from it really as far
as i can tell.

You see look this the problem when you recycle all the evidence
because later no one can tell what really did it the quickest way to
solve the head splitting debate would be to do a farkin forensic test of
the slag hanging of the steel

I made this post a while ago in another thread explaining exactly what that is on that column.

with the right setup you could cut that in a few minutes
obviously senenmut you have never held a torch

for everyone else i think you misunderstood me
i wasnt talking about the angle that the entire beam was cut on (there were lots of beams cut flat)
look closely at the pic again but only the face i circled here
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7987/cutbeam1.jpg
im talking about the slits at a 45 degree angle on the cut face (from outside to inside)
these are the torch marks
it was a fast sloppy cut (obviously speed was required not neat cuts) the slag was blown out the back of the cut and onto the front of the beam
explosives thermite whatever you want to think would never have left those marks

...GOOD DAY SIR!

[Dave Rogers]

You might think we are crazy but at least we will stand up for our beliefs. Where are the millions of licensed engineers that dont believe in CD now?

Doing a useful day's work, instead of telling fairy tales to morons.

Dave

[funk de fino]

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight.

You have just admitted your audience is full of truthers!! Epic fail.


I can't wait to see an explosion of activity in the media.

I would definitely not hold your breath on that one.

[Scott Sommers]

Well at least the truth movement people have got the guts to speak out to the public.

On Feb 19th we will be speaking out in San Fransisco at the Marines Memorial Club and Hotel at 11am to celebrate reaching our first 1,000 architects and/or engineers with degrees and/or licenses from around the world. ( See the location, even the marines think it was an inside job.!)

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight. You might think we are crazy but at least we will stand up for our beliefs. Where are the millions of licensed engineers that dont believe in CD now.?

We have more licensed structural/civil engineers in CA than in any other state. We have a total of 10 licensed structural/civil engineers, including 3 people with SE credentials, which means they are even allowed to design tall buildings. ( I bet there are hardly any of them in CA) . Our SE heroes are:

Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE

I can't wait to see an explosion of activity in the media.

Come on Truther, put them on video. Make them internet stars. See how keen and excited they are about that idea. Make them AE911 heros. Maybe it'll get them babes. Let's see what happens.

But my truth is, I don't believe you. I think you're making up these names, and if these guys are real engineers, they don't know you're using their names. So come on Truther, make them stars. Put a sign in their hands and go do a demo outside a TV station. I dare you.

[BigAl]

Well at least the truth movement people have got the guts to speak out to the public.

On Feb 19th we will be speaking out in San Fransisco at the Marines Memorial Club and Hotel at 11am to celebrate reaching our first 1,000 architects and/or engineers with degrees and/or licenses from around the world. ( See the location, even the marines think it was an inside job.!)

And I bet there will not be one gutless non-truther in sight.


Sending the announcement only to twoofers is one way to make that happen. That appears to be what Gage has done.

Invitations are being sent to more than 400 local AIA members, to many local, national, and international media outlets, and to more than 15,000 AE911Truth.org petition signers and supporters from around the world.

It would help if you sent the invitation to Engineering Society organizations and members.

This is just one more event in which no real dialog with non-believers will won't happen.

AE911 is a fraud.

What is the name of the recently-joined AE911 member that was described as having participated in design of two San Fransisco towers only to be shown that he was too young to have done so?

I don't think we've ever heard from him.

[Mr.Herbert]

But my truth is, I don't believe you. I think you're making up these names, and if these guys are real engineers, they don't know you're using their names. So come on Truther, make them stars. Put a sign in their hands and go do a demo outside a TV station. I dare you.

I looked into one of them. Ronald H. Bookman. He appears to be legit.

Licensee Name:BROOKMAN RONALD HERMANLicense Type:STRUCTURAL ENGINEERLicense Number:3653License Status:CLEAR Definition (javascript:windowOpener1(4213))Expiration Date:March 31, 2010Address:775 STORY BOOK COURTCity:NOVATOState:CAZip:94947County:MARINActio ns:No
http://www2.dca.ca.gov/pls/wllpub/WLLQRYNA$LCEV2.QueryView?P_LICENSE_NUMBER=3653&P_LTE_ID=737


Here is part of his "BIO" at the A/E Cult Page:



After much reading and studying it is obvious that NIST, FEMA and the 9/11 Commission have all fallen short of a detailed accounting of the catastrophic collapses of the three World Trade Center buildings in Manhattan on 9/11/01. A few examples of unexplained details include the "severe high temperature corrosion attack on the steel" as described in Appendix C of the FEMA Building Performance Study, the complete symmetrical collapses following asymmetric structural damage and short-term fires, and the chemical signature of incendiary compounds found in the toxic WTC dust.
I would really like to know why complete collapse of the twin towers "became inevitable" as expressed by NIST without any scientific analysis to substantiate it. Why would all 110 stories drop straight down to the ground in about 10 seconds, pulverizing most of the contents into dust and ash - twice? Why would WTC 7 fall straight down to the ground in about seven seconds the same day? It was not struck by any aircraft or engulfed in any fire. An independent investigation is justified - and necessary - for all three collapses.
http://www.ae911truth.org/profile.php?uid=997441

[Scott Sommers]

So he's a real Truther. He still does nothing except talk to other Truthers mostly on the Internet. If you really believed you had proof the US government slaughtered thousands, would you be chatting on web forums? Why doesn't he and his other AE911 Truthers go picket TV stations? My guess is they really don't want what that would get them. It's better just to chat on the web sharing their secret identity as keeps of really important stuff.

[Thunder]

So he's a real Truther. He still does nothing except talk to other Truthers mostly on the Internet. If you really believed you had proof the US government slaughtered thousands, would you be chatting on web forums?

there are only two possible explanations for such behavior:

a. pure cowardice and laziness.

b. doesn't really believe what he claims.


your guess is as good as mine.

[Telltale Tom]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

We have already got some good actions that we just need to fund
- Richard Gage's tour of New York State visiting every PE in every small town with a target of doubling our 5 PE's to 10 at the end of the tour
- Richard Gage to visit Dr Mahatir
- Richard Gage's Middle East tour

You know Richard hasn't just gone to Europe and Australia, New Zealand and Japan because they were nice places, he went because there were lots of chartered architects and engineers who could sign his petition. He has already got at least 10 structural engineers from there. Next stop India, China and Saudi Arabi where there are lots more engineers who may be prepared to sign the petition.

He can convince anyone we just need to get him access

[Scott Sommers]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

We have already got some good actions that we just need to fund
- Richard Gage's tour of New York State visiting every PE in every small town with a target of doubling our 5 PE's to 10 at the end of the tour
- Richard Gage to visit Dr Mahatir
- Richard Gage's Middle East tour

You know Richard hasn't just gone to Europe and Australia, New Zealand and Japan because they were nice places, he went because there were lots of chartered architects and engineers who could sign his petition. He has already got at least 10 structural engineers from there. Next stop India, China and Saudi Arabi where there are lots more engineers who may be prepared to sign the petition.

He can convince anyone we just need to get him access

I'm finally getting you. I once suggested that Gage tour Afghanistan. Are you in on this one, as well? Where can I send my money?

[BigAl]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

We have already got some good actions that we just need to fund
- Richard Gage's tour of New York State visiting every PE in every small town with a target of doubling our 5 PE's to 10 at the end of the tour
- Richard Gage to visit Dr Mahatir
- Richard Gage's Middle East tour


Until Gage books a room in Manhattan and invites the local engineering societies, I'm not impressed and I call him a fraud and coward.

[BigAl]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

You know Richard hasn't just gone to Europe and Australia, New Zealand and Japan because they were nice places, he went because there were lots of chartered architects and engineers who could sign his petition. He has already got at least 10 structural engineers from there. Next stop India, China and Saudi Arabi where there are lots more engineers who may be prepared to sign the petition.

He can convince anyone we just need to get him access

He can come to NYC any time.

[Scott Sommers]

He can come to NYC any time.

I suspect there's a much bigger demand for him as a speaker in Helmand.

[Thunder]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

We have already got some good actions that we just need to fund
- Richard Gage's tour of New York State visiting every PE in every small town with a target of doubling our 5 PE's to 10 at the end of the tour
- Richard Gage to visit Dr Mahatir
- Richard Gage's Middle East tour


and this is gonna convince the USA to have a new investigation into 9-11....how????????????

[Dave Rogers]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

You might need one or two other things, like evidence, common sense, rationality, and accusations of real crimes rather than pretend ones.

Still, you've only had a bit over eight years. Who ever did anything that quickly?

Dave

[Telltale Tom]

and this is gonna convince the USA to have a new investigation into 9-11....how????????????

Well our problem is that we have no support in the engineering community that designs and builds tall buildings. For instance only 5 licensed engineers in the NY state and 80 world-wide is just not good enough.

And so the solution is to get Mr Gage to meet real engineers and explain the evidence. We know from his records that almost everyone who listens to his talk can see that the fires alone could not bring down the buildings. He should attend the next ASCE conference where over 10,000 american building and structural engineers will attend.

Once we get support from these engineers and build momentum the new investigation tto look for CD will be innevitable. Please donate if you want the Truth.

[funk de fino]

All we need is some money and we can really start to make a difference.

We have already got some good actions that we just need to fund
- Richard Gage's tour of New York State visiting every PE in every small town with a target of doubling our 5 PE's to 10 at the end of the tour
- Richard Gage to visit Dr Mahatir
- Richard Gage's Middle East tour

You know Richard hasn't just gone to Europe and Australia, New Zealand and Japan because they were nice places, he went because there were lots of chartered architects and engineers who could sign his petition. He has already got at least 10 structural engineers from there. Next stop India, China and Saudi Arabi where there are lots more engineers who may be prepared to sign the petition.

He can convince anyone we just need to get him access

Having been in Saudi twice, I would love to see him spew his lies there. Every Saudi I talked to about 911, laughed at the truthers claims. Its not a safe place for westerners, he should watch himself.

[funk de fino]

Well our problem is that we have no support in the engineering community that designs and builds tall buildings. For instance only 5 licensed engineers in the NY state and 80 world-wide is just not good enough.

And so the solution is to get Mr Gage to meet real engineers and explain the evidence. We know from his records that almost everyone who listens to his talk can see that the fires alone could not bring down the buildings. He should attend the next ASCE conference where over 10,000 american building and structural engineers will attend.

Once we get support from these engineers and build momentum the new investigation tto look for CD will be innevitable. Please donate if you want the Truth.

It's like those grubby TV evangelists. Send us your money.

His crowds are full of truther numpties, he does not need to convert them, you admitted it.

[BigAl]

Well our problem is that we have no support in the engineering community that designs and builds tall buildings. For instance only 5 licensed engineers in the NY state and 80 world-wide is just not good enough.


That should be a clue for you and Mr. Gage.


And so the solution is to get Mr Gage to meet real engineers and explain the evidence.

What's stopping him or any of his merry band?

If local civil/mechanical/structural Engineering society meetings are like what I am involved with in other disciplines, they are always looking for guest speakers.

Do you speak for Mr. Gage?

Let him come to NYC, please please. There are probably more licensed engineers within commuting distance of Manhattan than there are in rest of New York State.

[cornsail]

If you really believed you had proof the US government slaughtered thousands, would you be chatting on web forums? Why doesn't he and his other AE911 Truthers go picket TV stations? My guess is they really don't want what that would get them. It's better just to chat on the web sharing their secret identity as keeps of really important stuff.

If you believe the US slaughtered thousands you can't chat on web forums? I don't get it.

[Justin39640]

please donate if you want the truth.

2988402939571753424#

[Bad_Doggie]

Well our problem is that we have no support in the engineering community that designs and builds tall buildings. For instance only 5 licensed engineers in the NY state and 80 world-wide is just not good enough.

And why do you think after all these years this is so, pray tell?

And so the solution is to get Mr Gage to meet real engineers and explain the evidence. We know from his records that almost everyone who listens to his talk can see that the fires alone could not bring down the buildings. He should attend the next ASCE conference where over 10,000 american building and structural engineers will attend.

You believe that the fires alone brought down the buildings???

You mean Gage and his 1000 fellow Engineers and Architects have not met any other E&A’s and explained their “evidence”? How about collectively or individually publishing their “evidence”? Why not? That would be the best and quickest way to convince them one way or the other.

Once we get support from these engineers and build momentum the new investigation tto look for CD will be innevitable. Please donate if you want the Truth.

Will you be holding your breath? I don’t recommend it.

Woof!

[Dave Rogers]

If you believe the US slaughtered thousands you can't chat on web forums? I don't get it.

If you really, honestly believe the US slaughtered thousands and fooled everyone into thinking it was al-Qaeda, either you do a whole load more than chat on web forums, or you're part of the problem.

Dave

[Architect]

Well our problem is that we have no support in the engineering community that designs and builds tall buildings. For instance only 5 licensed engineers in the NY state and 80 world-wide is just not good enough.

And so the solution is to get Mr Gage to meet real engineers and explain the evidence. We know from his records that almost everyone who listens to his talk can see that the fires alone could not bring down the buildings. He should attend the next ASCE conference where over 10,000 american building and structural engineers will attend.

Once we get support from these engineers and build momentum the new investigation tto look for CD will be innevitable. Please donate if you want the Truth.

I design tall buildings. For a living. Some of the UK posters here are familiar with my work. And let me tell you, your theories are bollocks.

[Edx]

If you believe the US slaughtered thousands you can't chat on web forums? I don't get it.

I think he is saying if they really believe 911 Truth deep down why aren't they actually doing anything?

[Telltale Tom]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong. You need to consider other factors, like;
- they can't be bothered to read the reports about 9/11
- they are not intersted in this issue
- they are too frighted about being criticized by government or being ridiculed by their colleagues
- they have been paid off by government or threatened
- they haven't heard Richard Gage talk

Edited breach of Rule 6; do not solicit members. If Mr Gage went to every town in the US we could get hundreds of engineers supporting us.

[DGM]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong. You need to consider other factors, like;
- they can't be bothered to read the reports about 9/11
- they are not intersted in this issue
- they are too frighted about being criticized by government or being ridiculed by their colleagues
- they have been paid off by government or threatened
- they haven't heard Richard Gage talk

Moderated content removed. If Mr Gage went to every town in the US we could get hundreds of engineers supporting us.
We get it. AE9/11 is insignificant and only wants your money. Stop spamming this forum.

[bill smith]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong. You need to consider other factors, like;
- they can't be bothered to read the reports about 9/11
- they are not intersted in this issue
- they are too frighted about being criticized by government or being ridiculed by their colleagues
- they have been paid off by government or threatened
- they haven't heard Richard Gage talk

Moderated content removed. If Mr Gage went to every town in the US we could get hundreds of engineers supporting us.

Yes Readers you should do as Tom here says and throw your weight beehind Sir Richard Gage in his quest to expose the inside job that is 9/11. If you ask Tom here he will be happy to furnish you with the details of the website and how to donate.

The truth Movement would like to thank Tom for his loyalty to the Truth, Thank you Tom.

Remember the motto 'Every Shilling shall Shell a Shill'.

[DGM]

Yes Readers you should do as Tom here says and throw your weight beehind Sir Richard Gage in his quest to expose the inside job that is 9/11. If you ask Tom here he will be happy to furnish you with the details of the website and how to donate.

The truth Movement would like to thank Tom for his loyalty to the Truth, Thank you Tom.
"Sir Richard Gage"? The "readers" are now noting you take it onto yourself to "Knight" anyone you please.

Are you the Queen?

[BigAl]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong.


Why doesn't Gage speak in NYC and invite the local engineering community, many of whom had first-hand experience with the construction and.or the collapse of the towers.

Gage is a coward and a fraud.

[Thunder]

Why doesn't Gage speak in NYC and invite the local engineering community, many of whom had first-hand experience with the construction and.or the collapse of the towers.

because he is NOT WANTED in New York City.

"No dogs, no sandles, and NO TRUTHERS!!"

:D

[Thunder]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong.

two of my supervisors are AIA architects. i asked one about Truthers and if they have shown up at any of his meetings, which he attends monthy.

he said not in a long..long time. and when they did...they got very little attention.

true scientists know bunk when they see it.

9-11 Truth is da king of Bunk.

[Architect]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong. You need to consider other factors, like;
- they can't be bothered to read the reports about 9/11
- they are not intersted in this issue
- they are too frighted about being criticized by government or being ridiculed by their colleagues
- they have been paid off by government or threatened
- they haven't heard Richard Gage talk

Moderated content removed. If Mr Gage went to every town in the US we could get hundreds of engineers supporting us.

In the same order as yours:

- I see....biggest building failure in history and we can't be arsed reading about it. So, like, all these papers by the likes of Arup or Edinburgh University are just what exactly?

- Well, we were sufficiently worried to revise most building regulations worldwide and introduce additional requirements regarding dispropportionate collapse, for example in the new Eurocodes.

- Why would I be worried about your crummy government? What about the French engineers and architects? The Chinese? The Koreans? The Germans?

- Do you know how many architects and engineers you'd have to pay off?

- I've watched his presentation, and he's still talking bollocks.

But what would I know, eh?

[ref]

Just wondering, whatever happened to Gage's mosque strategy?

Back in September 2009 they were very positive:

Worldwide and perhaps in the US as well, Muslims have born the brunt of the 9/11 "false flag" operation. They are more aware than most in America of the true nature of the deceptive controlled demolitions. We are seeking ways to empower them to empower us through their silent support. We will also be speaking to mosques in California this October.
http://www.ae911truth.org/info/84


A month later in October, after their visit to the NJ mosque, they were writing this:

Imam Reda Shata was very gracious and encouraged his members to generously support the efforts of AE911Truth, and encouraged by the outpouring of support, has arranged for additional speaking engagements later this month at other area mosques in Brooklyn and New Jersey, each of which boast 1500 members.
http://www.ae911truth.org/info/100



But if one browses through their appearances page:
http://www.ae911truth.org/speakings.php#speak

one can see that there has not been a single visit to a single mosque before or after that NJ visit. Not in California, not in Brooklyn, not anywhere. Just wondering.

Anyway, it seems very quiet in their land. Only two speaking engagements in the next 4 months. Them popular?

[tfk]

Just because there are over 5,000 structural/civil licensed structural engineers in the New York State and only 5 have signed the AE911truth petition doesn't mean to say that we are wrong.

Uh, sorry. That's exactly what it means.

Tom

PS. But I suspect you already knew that.

[Telltale Tom]

Do you see we are raising money to invite 3,000 local SF architects to our press conference on Feb 19th. I hope we have a big room booked.!

I think we should also invite 3,000 local licensed Structural Engineers SE's. Its a bit embarrassing that we only have 3 SE's from CA who have signed up to our petition. Except our stars:
Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE

Particularly since California is the heart of our organization. Almost a third of all the licensed architects that support ae911truth are from CA, thats 51 out of 186!.

We just need to get a few thousand Architects and Engineers in a room with Richard Gage and our numbers will shoot up. He convinces over 95% of people who listen.

[Scott Sommers]

If you believe the US slaughtered thousands you can't chat on web forums? I don't get it.

The fact that you don't get it says something about how much you've thought about this problem. Do you think student protestors in Iran just get on the Net and chat about their recent fights with the police? While you probably don't know anything about this, international supporters of Iranian protesters reset their Facebooks and Twitters to Terhan time so that police in Iran who were monitoring the Internet would have to look through thousands of other postings to find those that really originated in Iran.

You know why? Because police there kill people who oppose them. And people who really support freedom help these protestors.

I live in a place where until 1987 there was martial law. You had to be off the streets by midnight and citizens needed a visa to leave the country. In 1947, soldiers massacred between ten and thirty thousand people, declared martial law and then in the next 40 years locked up and murdered tens of thousands more. These kinds of practices still continue in China.

Why am I wasting my time on this? If you really cared about liberty, you'd know this already. The fact that you don't says to me that you're just a pretender.

[BigAl]

Do you see we are raising money to invite 3,000 local SF architects to our press conference on Feb 19th. I hope we have a big room booked.!

I think we should also invite 3,000 local licensed Structural Engineers SE's. Its a bit embarrassing that we only have 3 SE's from CA who have signed up to our petition. Except our stars:
Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE



Don't assume that "SE" stands for "Structural Engineer".

[Edx]

Don't assume that "SE" stands for "Structural Engineer".

Software Engineer?

:)

[BigAl]

Software Engineer?

:)

Sanitation Engineer?

[Dave Rogers]

S*** 'Ead.

Dave

[ElMondoHummus]

I think we should also invite 3,000 local licensed Structural Engineers SE's. Its a bit embarrassing that we only have 3 SE's from CA who have signed up to our petition. Except our stars:
Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE


Don't assume that "SE" stands for "Structural Engineer".

Even if it did, it doesn't matter. The veracity of any claim doesn't stand on who's behind it, but whether the details of the claim, as well as the conclusions from it match up with reality. That's where AE911T has always and will always fail. Until they confront some really fundamental basics regarding the collapse, they will never, ever get anywhere significant with their claims.

________

On top of that, Telltale Tom, I wouldn't be bragging about how many "invites" you've extended for any single event. Remember, the production company that fields the Ringling Bros. Barnum & Bailey circus performances claims attendance figures in the millions (http://www.whnt.com/whnt-ringling-bros-response,0,16203.story) for all their events, including the circuses, and unlike some architects who might be attending but have never heard the conspiracy claims before, the Ringling Bros. audience is aware they're paying to see clowns. If some invitees are unaware of AE911T claims before they look into the argument, let's see how many remain enthusiastic after they've had time to study it.

[W.D.Clinger]

Its a bit embarrassing that we only have 3 SE's from CA who have signed up to our petition. Except our stars:
Ron Brookman SE
David Topete SE
Kamal Obeid SE
:)

(Just to clarify: I do not mean to suggest that the Sudanese minister of state information really belongs to AE9111T.)

[Sam.I.Am]

3000? That venues largest room holds less than 300.

Yes, I've been there before for a wedding reception.

[Telltale Tom]

3000? That venues largest room holds less than 300.

Yes, I've been there before for a wedding reception.

I have just seen a major problem with the invitation, that might keep the numbers down.

The invitation to the Keynote Luncheon and the A/E conference is only open to signers of the petition. So that means that from the whole of California we are only going to get 51 licensed architects and 3 licensed Structural Engineers. Thats a mistake in my book. We need it to be open to any architect or engineer so that Richard can convince them of CD like he does with more than 95% of people he speaks to.

I hope we can convince ae911truth to change the policy, because I am not sure why we are inviting 3,000 architects from SF if they need to sign the petition before they hear the story.

[BigAl]

I have just seen a major problem with the invitation, that might keep the numbers down.

The invitation to the Keynote Luncheon and the A/E conference is only open to signers of the petition.


Anything to keep the people with real questions out.

Who's going to control the Q&A microphone? Will there be Q&A?


So that means that from the whole of California we are only going to get 51 licensed architects and 3 licensed Structural Engineers. Thats a mistake in my book. We need it to be open to any architect or engineer so that Richard can convince them of CD like he does with more than 95% of people he speaks to.

I hope we can convince ae911truth to change the policy, because I am not sure why we are inviting 3,000 architects from SF if they need to sign the petition before they hear the story.

I keep telling you that you are high on your count of structural engineers. Google is your friend.

The AE911 bios that I have checked have been lies, also.

[Telltale Tom]

Anything to keep the people with real questions out.

Who's going to control the Q&A microphone? Will there be Q&A?



I keep telling you that you are high on your count of structural engineers. Google is your friend.

The AE911 bios that I have checked have been lies, also.

Big Al, you need to cut us some slack here.

When I last looked we had 80 structural, civil, geo, sewage engineers from across the US and most of these signed up in the first few months We might have jazzed the numbers up a bit but does it really matter. You need to put it in perspective.
For instance last year there were 320 new PE's registered in the State of Maine and sadly we registered less than 10 new PE's from across the States

So just let us jazz the numbers up a bit and if you have any specific claims that we have made the names up then I will help ae911truth to sort these out

It is significant and slightly dissappointing that we only have 3SE's in California. But there is great growth potential

[DGM]

Anything to keep the people with real questions out.

Who's going to control the Q&A microphone? Will there be Q&A?

.

I've been to Gages show and all questions are screened before you are allowed to touch the microphone. Anyone that is likely to ask an "inconvenient" question never gets anywhere near the microphone (they know who their "detractors" are). You can talk to him after the show but you won't be able to have your questions addressed in front of the audience (unless the question is in support of his views).

[BigAl]

Big Al, you need to cut us some slack here.

Why? Checking credentials isn't rocked science.

Inflating a biography is intelectual fraud.

When I last looked we had 80 structural, civil, geo, sewage engineers from across the US and most of these signed up in the first few months We might have jazzed the numbers up a bit but does it really matter. You need to put it in perspective.
For instance last year there were 320 new PE's registered in the State of Maine and sadly we registered less than 10 new PE's from across the States

Do you really have "sewage engineers"? What do you thing the education requirements for a sewage engineers is? I have no idea. Why do you think that a "sewage engineer" has anything relevant to say about why fire caused a tower to collapse?

I see people in your lists using "SE" for "software engineer" and since this is the industry I've spent most of my life in, I know that damn few software engineers have any expertise relevant to what AE911 is looking for.



So just let us jazz the numbers up a bit and if you have any specific claims that we have made the names up then I will help ae911truth to sort these out

It is significant and slightly dissappointing that we only have 3SE's in California. But there is great growth potential

Google those names. One of them is in the software industry and has no apparent expertise in structures.

The reason you have so few engineers is that the claims Gage makes are ******** and engineers that are not senile know it.

Edited to remove breach of Rule 10.

[Telltale Tom]

The nice thing about having such few members is that we get some really good proportional representations. So on Friday's mega press conference I expect that we will get 1 or 2 of our california SE's to attend, that would be 33% or 66%.

You will see that we raised all the money to invite 3,000 architects. Did anyone you know get an invite? Its going to be blast.!

[dudalb]

The nice thing about having such few members is that we get some really good proportional representations. So on Friday's mega press conference I expect that we will get 1 or 2 of our california SE's to attend, that would be 33% or 66%.

You will see that we raised all the money to invite 3,000 architects. Did anyone you know get an invite? Its going to be blast.!


How pathetic can you get? First a total amateur argues with somebody who designs high rises for a living, now he tries to show that miniscule membership is somehow an advantage in spreading the word about 9/11 Truth.

[BigAl]

The nice thing about having such few members is that we get some really good proportional representations. So on Friday's mega press conference I expect that we will get 1 or 2 of our california SE's to attend, that would be 33% or 66%.

You will see that we raised all the money to invite 3,000 architects. Did anyone you know get an invite? Its going to be blast.!

Why don't you invite engineers?

[TruthersLie]

Bigal and Dudalb.


It is Poes Law. I think tell tale tom is great by showing exactly how little support is out there. Keep it up tom, I'm sure eventually there will be 1,000 licensed and registered architects or engineers.... One day.

[ref]

Holy Bump Batman!

I took a quick look at the gageland once again, to pass time. Found an interesting post of theirs, though.

A post in which they introduce their volunteer teams (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/600-take-action-now-make-an-impact-locally-and-globally-as-an-ae911truth-volunteer.html).

Currently they have a whopping 17 different volunteer teams:

The Action Groups Team
The College Outreach Team
The Congressional Outreach Team
The Fundraising Team
The Graphics Team
The Media Outreach Team
The NIST Pursuit Team
The Online Store Team
The Presenter Team
The Public Access TV Team
The Public Outreach Team
The Video Team
The Verification Team
The Volunteer Team
The Front-End Web Team
The Back-End Web Team
The Writing Team

As you can see from the team names, and even better when reading the team descriptions, this is a pure sales organization (as we already know).

Where are the ones you would expect from a credible organization, like a scientific research team, the physics team, the review team? There are none. Instead they have a specific team for "developing methods of holding NIST accountable for their false, misleading, and unscientific 9/11 reports"

They also have profiles of a couple of volunteers. They all present classic symptoms of truth activists (feeling of great importance, life changing experiences, wanting to be part of something meaningful and bringing the truth to everyone):

“I was so inspired by what I'd heard that day that I knew I wanted to be part of bringing 9/11 truth to the public,” Selk explained. “The personal connections I've made since becoming a volunteer have forever changed my life, and I am grateful to those who pour their hearts into this critically important work.”

“I consider my volunteering for AE911Truth to be some of the most important work I've ever done”

“The events of 9/11 changed everything, and it was too important NOT to do something about it”

“What I like most about volunteering is that I’m doing something constructive for the cause of truth and justice,” Cook said. “While some people in the movement get discouraged and frustrated, being a part of AE911Truth allows me to contribute on an ongoing basis in ways that have a positive effect on the world.”

That's why it's so hard to make these people abandon trutherism with reason and facts.

[Cl1mh4224rd]

A post in which they introduce their volunteer teams (http://www.ae911truth.org/en/news-section/41-articles/600-take-action-now-make-an-impact-locally-and-globally-as-an-ae911truth-volunteer.html).

Currently they have a whopping 17 different volunteer teams:

The Action Groups Team
The College Outreach Team
The Congressional Outreach Team
The Fundraising Team
The Graphics Team
The Media Outreach Team
The NIST Pursuit Team
The Online Store Team
The Presenter Team
The Public Access TV Team
The Public Outreach Team
The Video Team
The Verification Team
The Volunteer Team
The Front-End Web Team
The Back-End Web Team
The Writing Team


A volunteer team name the "Volunteer Team"? :boggled: And the entire purpose of this team is to place new volunteers into one of the other volunteer teams? :boggled: How do they get volunteers for the Volunteer Team, then? :boggled:

[ozeco41]

A volunteer team name the "Volunteer Team"? :boggled: And the entire purpose of this team is to place new volunteers into one of the other volunteer teams? :boggled: How do they get volunteers for the Volunteer Team, then? :boggled:
They get some volunteer volunteers to volunteer...

...voluntarily of course. ;)

[tsig]

A volunteer team name the "Volunteer Team"? :boggled: And the entire purpose of this team is to place new volunteers into one of the other volunteer teams? :boggled: How do they get volunteers for the Volunteer Team, then? :boggled:

The get them from Tennessee.

http://www.statesymbolsusa.org/Tennessee/TennesseeNickname.html

[Orphia Nay]

I doubt those teams do much work. I sent an email to the Congressional Outreach Team asking which congresspersons they'd contacted. No reply.

[Justin39640]

I doubt those teams do much work. I sent an email to the Congressional Outreach Team asking which congresspersons they'd contacted. No reply.

Those emails addresses are probably just honey pots so Gage can sell email addy's to Nigerian bank scammers... That's actually a lot less disgusting than making a living trampling the graves of those lost.