Science and Politics

[a_unique_person]

There are many areas of science, and the average man in the street cannot hope to know much more than a rudimentary amount about any of them. This is the age of specialisation. Even scientists in the same field will not necessarily know in depth what another scientist is working on. We are, to a large extent, reliant on them following the scientific process.

This brings me to the issue of science and politics. Some areas of mathematics are pretty 'value free'. That is, they are about issues that are abstract enough that the scientists are free to debate and argue amongst themselves about the issues and questions that arise. I would put quantum mechanics and astronomy in this group.

Other fields are pretty well accepted by most thinking people. Although a few crackpots do quite well, the science itself is well proven and accepted. Medicine and Evolution would fit into this category. Once again, the scientific method is accepted to be working.

Finally, there are the fields of science that have implications for economic activity. These are hotly debated by many, there are many crackpots. The scientific method is suddenly under question. Scientists are not just scientists any more, but people pushing an agenda, seeking to line their pockets, and time servers out to milk a gullible public for all they can. The weather and atmosperic scietists would fall into this last group.

Are there any others?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
There are many areas of science, and the average man in the street cannot hope to know much more than a rudimentary amount about any of them. This is the age of specialisation. Even scientists in the same field will not necessarily know in depth what another scientist is working on. We are, to a large extent, reliant on them following the scientific process.

This brings me to the issue of science and politics. Some areas of mathematics are pretty 'value free'. That is, they are about issues that are abstract enough that the scientists are free to debate and argue amongst themselves about the issues and questions that arise. I would put quantum mechanics and astronomy in this group.

Other fields are pretty well accepted by most thinking people. Although a few crackpots do quite well, the science itself is well proven and accepted. Medicine and Evolution would fit into this category. Once again, the scientific method is accepted to be working.

Finally, there are the fields of science that have implications for economic activity. These are hotly debated by many, there are many crackpots. The scientific method is suddenly under question. Scientists are not just scientists any more, but people pushing an agenda, seeking to line their pockets, and time servers out to milk a gullible public for all they can. The weather and atmosperic scietists would fall into this last group.

Are there any others?

Anything that relates to food and agriculture.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

Finally, there are the fields of science that have implications for economic activity. These are hotly debated by many, there are many crackpots. The scientific method is suddenly under question. Scientists are not just scientists any more, but people pushing an agenda, seeking to line their pockets, and time servers out to milk a gullible public for all they can. The weather and atmosperic scietists would fall into this last group.


Are you on crack dude? Thats a serious question.

I work at the Scripps Institute of Oceanography, let me assure you nobody is getting rich here.

You just make this stuff up, don't you?

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


Are you on crack dude? Thats a serious question.

I work at the Scripps Institute of Oceanography, let me assure you nobody is getting rich here.

You just make this stuff up, don't you?

I was saying they are, I was saying those are the types of accusations made about them. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


I was saying they are, I was saying those are the types of accusations made about them. Perhaps I didn't make that clear enough.

Who are making these accusations? I haven't encountered them.

There are a few bad apples in all the sciences that will say anything if you pay them enough, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. The earth sciences are no different, for an example check out any of Diamond's references on global warming. :D

I guess if you're only exposed to the crooked few it might color your view a bit, but for god's sake don't write off the whole field! We have enough funding problems as is, the mudslinging doesn't help.

[Jon_in_london]

Well there has been the whole "GM foods Debate" here in the UK. Not suprisinly about 80% of the people who participated were anti (of course most of the people who participated have their own agendas eg greenpeacenuts etc...).

One of the things being trumpeted is that "the more people know about GM foods, the less they like them" which is tosh of course because most people dont even know what a gene is in the first place.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


Who are making these accusations? I haven't encountered them.

There are a few bad apples in all the sciences that will say anything if you pay them enough, but they are a tiny, tiny minority. The earth sciences are no different, for an example check out any of Diamond's references on global warming. :D

I guess if you're only exposed to the crooked few it might color your view a bit, but for god's sake don't write off the whole field! We have enough funding problems as is, the mudslinging doesn't help.

That is my point. The accusations are made for political reasons. As was shown in another thread about GW investigations and GWB. Not only did they not agree with the report, the findings were suppressed. I don't recall the last time a report on quantum physics was suppressed by the government.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

That is my point. The accusations are made for political reasons. As was shown in another thread about GW investigations and GWB. Not only did they not agree with the report, the findings were suppressed. I don't recall the last time a report on quantum physics was suppressed by the government.

None of the research is being surpressed, most of the research is government funded in fact. The people who dole out NSF grants are scientists themselves, not politicians.

The people you seem to be complaining about are politicians, not scientists. I am not surprised at all that a pinhead president with ties to the oil industry would reject research that shows his buddies in a bad light. Again I don't see what this has to do with earth scientists.

That said there are more than a fair share of nutballs on the other side as well.

[a_unique_person]

http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27488



Woah woah woah, first, no one here said anything in their posts championing the cause of global warming panic. What is disturbing and is in evidence of the posts is the supression of scientific reserach. It will always be in contention, and always be a nebulous issue if we cannot get access, or is the scientific community feels intimidated to publish skewed results.

This is an issue of censorship, and global warming happens to be the circumstance right now, and as you can see there are others:

http://news.independent.co.uk/world...sp?story=445464

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27488



I still don't see the surpression of research. Bush is just ignoring a report.

Believe me, its too late to surpress research on AGW, it's a done deal in the earth sciences. Even if future research was surpressed domestically the scientists would just send their results offshore and let a foreign journal publish it. You guys are too paranoid.