Social security: Does gov't owe what you paid in?

[Iamme]

If our Social Security plan no longer works in the years down the road....should the government be made to at least pay you for what you paid in? Or, are they going to steal it from us and call this a tax?

I was always under the impression that witholding taxes was one thing, and Social Security (F.I.C.A.) was a seperate entity. Therefore, I would hope that we all ban together and demand that they at LEAST pay us what we paid in. And, possibly, with a reasonable amount of interest. Afterall, the IRS will make you pay PLENTY of interest and penalties, if you don't pay them what they say that they have coming. Right?

[patnray]

Gross misconception: what you pay in is not being saved and invested for your retirement. It is being used to pay benefits to current retirees. There is no guarantee you'll get back what you paid in. You will get back less than if you had invested the money in a tax free retirement account yourself...

[Iamme]

patnray---I KNEW that already. But why shouldn't they have to pay you for what you paid in, if they did not call that an income tax, per se? I see red, just thinking of politicians who pay themselves the wages and benefits that they deem...to not give me my money back.

For those of you who don't know this: You receive, on average, WAY way money in benefits, than what you paid in. With this system, I can see why they maybe can no longer pay down the road, sometime.l If we reach 0 population growth, for one example...this is bad for the social security system, because there won't be enough new people to help pay past generations S.S. checks, like patnray pointed out.

But I still demand to get my money back that I paid in. If not, I would threaten to withold income tax, saying, they got it from me already, in the form of S.S. tax that I saw no part of! (You see...even with income taxes, you receive benefits back from those, in various indirect ways.)

[Malachi151]

Sociel Security is not a retirement account, its a system to use current workers to pay for teh care of retired people. The "governemnt" isn't stealing your money, its going to old people.

SS has one of the lowest administrative costs of any system in the world, nearly every penny collected goes to paying recipients.

The problem with Social Security is that it only taxes the first portion of income, i.e. the first $87,000 of income, so its a tax that falls primarily on the poor and middle class, yet the poor and middle class are making a smaller and smaller portion of total income, so as the national income shifts towards the top 1%, they aren't paying much of that into to Social Security, thus an increasingly larger and larger portion of the national income is escaping the Social Security tax.

This is the real root of the problem.

The the SS tax was a true flat tax that applies to all income levels then this problem would go away, but in order to protect the rich the poor and middle will be screwed in the future.

However none of this oes to helping the "government" in any way. The govenment does not get the money, citizens do, its strictly a money in money out system.

[Tony]

SS is a ponzi scam, and the fact that that money is stolen from me pisses me off.

[Shinytop]

Social security also pays for those who need help. When my father died my school age brothers and sisters received college tuition help. When a bread winner dies the widow receives SS help even though she is not of retirement age. If a person becomes disabled even before retirement age they can receive disability from SS. These are all people that the government has deemed appropriate to help. Don't like it, please let your elected representatives know and maybe you can get it changed. But please, provide suggestions how best to help people who truly need it.

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by Tony
SS is a ponzi scam, and the fact that that money is stolen from me pisses me off.

Do you even know what a "ponzi" scheme is? Social is not a scam, its a good system in principle, the problem is that the tax is mainly applied to the poor and middle classes.

[Suddenly]

I roughly recall a court case from the 1950's or so where some guy moved to the USSR. He tried to sue the federal government for a return of the social security he had paid in. He lost, and as I recall this said much about the nature of social security being more like an insurance than a retirement plan or savings account, in that the government doesn't really "owe" you what you pay in.

I can't find the case though.

[Jon_in_london]

In the UK SS is called NI for National Insurance (11% off your paycheck!)

Its like any insurance plan. If it goes arse over elbow you dont get squat.

[Malachi151]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
In the UK SS is called NI for National Insurance (11% off your paycheck!)

Its like any insurance plan. If it goes arse over elbow you dont get squat.

Its actually called Social Insurance here too, it is an insurance program essentially.