Scientology and the Law

[Wildy]

The alternate name for this thread is "AAAAAARRRRRGGGGHHH! The Scientology threads, they are spreading".

It either belongs here or in Social Issues, because this thread is based more on the law then the "religion".

Finally, no idea if it has been covered before in years past, so if it has sorry.

I was doing some searching on Operation Clambake (www.xenu.net) for something and I ended up coming across a FACTNet section on former Scientologist Jesse Prince and some tapes that he recorded (http://www.factnet.org/Scientology/jesse_tapes.html#one) (for some reason I would prefer listening to it though) and started reading.

Reading through the first tape Mr. Prince talks about how he and other Scientologists bugged a house to gather information on a couple in the organisation, some offices of people they were involved in a lawsuit against, and about judge tampering.

Trying to see if I could get the tapes in audio I found this. (http://www.xenutv.com/legal/jesse/index.html) Where this very former Scientologist was apparently framed (I can't seem to find anything relating to a second case after a mistrial was declared) by CoS in order to discredit him in the Lisa McPherson civil suit.

Now my questions are as follows.

Why exactly is such an organisation permitted to break so many laws and go prosecuted?

I would assume that if the Catholic Church recorded the confessions of the people who go to confessional heads would roll, or if they decided to bug the house of a priest illegally but CoS seems to get away with this.

Why are they permitted to blackmail critics?
Or be such a vexatious litigant?
Or manipulate the legal system?

Why is it that they can do all this and not face any charges but if you, or I, or even another religion did we would find ourselves in court?

[skeptical]

Why exactly is such an organisation permitted to break so many laws and go prosecuted?

I assume you meant "un"prosecuted. The short answer is, most of the actions they have taken are violations of civil but not criminal codes. This means that the only people who can bring an action against them are those who were actually affected. It appears that many of those targeted by Scientology either are unwilling or unable to bring civil suits against them.

As far as criminal conduct, that is another matter. I think in cases of alleged criminal conduct there has been a problem of evidence or backbone by local prosecutors.


I would assume that if the Catholic Church recorded the confessions of the people who go to confessional heads would roll, or if they decided to bug the house of a priest illegally but CoS seems to get away with this.

Those would primarily be civil matters, and so would depend on people to pursue civil actions. The difference between the RCC and Scient seems to be primarily that Scient has flown under the radar of public scrutiny for a long time, and so has not had to worry about its behavior being scrutinized. The principle danger of any religion is that people begin to think its crap and stop following it. That is the primary deterrent to egregious behavior.


Why are they permitted to blackmail critics?
Or be such a vexatious litigant?
Or manipulate the legal system?

For better or worse, in the US the legal system has a strong presumption to allow anyone access to the courts. There are penalties for frivolous suits, but they are rarely pursued, more rarely found frivolous and the penalties are minor enough that an org like Scient that has deep pockets is not going to be deterred.


Why is it that they can do all this and not face any charges but if you, or I, or even another religion did we would find ourselves in court?

A lot of their victims seem to be intimidated into silence or to not have the financial resources to fight back. And, until fairly recently there has not been a lot of public spotlight on Scient, so they have operated with relative impunity. However, it appears that this is changing.

[Empress]

I don't know what the law is in Australia re: civil cases. I believe the UK has "loser pay" laws, and you might have the same. Here in the States we have no such law, and it makes it much easier to be litigious. Of course, Scientology by the nature of the organization, has huge amounts of money, so they can afford many attys and investigators. Basically they can afford to take even frivilous lawsuits to such extremes that normal people can't keep fighting them, regardless of who's in the right.

People can be charged with filing frivilous lawsuits and barred from continuing, but it's rare, and I've mostly heard of it with inmates who constantly sue the state or federal government for such things as receiving a broken cookie with their dinner. Essentially, they're stuck in prison with nothing to do, and filing lawsuits is the way they pass their time. Even then, I believe it's a rare occurence simply because it's such a cornerstone of our law that everyone has a right to be heard in Court.

Many people do advocate the British system of "loser pay" for exactly this sort of situation, however.

Scientology has been held accountable for breaking criminal laws, (ie: Hubbard's wife and others being prosecuted for breaking into the IRS) but most of the cases you have mentioned are civil situations.

[Wildy]

Yes, I meant unprosecuted, which apparently (at least according to the spell checker) isn't a word.

So basically if Scientology moves further into the spotlight the more likely the organisation will be forced to reform?

[skeptical]

Yes, I meant unprosecuted, which apparently (at least according to the spell checker) isn't a word.

So basically if Scientology moves further into the spotlight the more likely the organisation will be forced to reform?

I think so. At least, I hope so.

I think in the past a lot of people just thought of them as some sort of fringe group that was not that important, if they thought of them at all.

One good thing that Crazy Tom has done is to draw attention to them, and I think this will put them under more scrutiny, making them less willing to pursue their tactics for fear of a public backlash.

[Big Les]

Don't forget Operation Snow White in which several Scientologists including L Wrong's wife went to jail for messing with the US gov, or the fact that Hubbard himself was convicted of criminal charges (albeit by a foreign country, in absentia).

They're still at it by all (admittedly anecdotal) accounts - slashing tyres, that sort of thing. But the internet makes such practices much harder to a) sustain and b) get away with. Anyone being Fair Gamed now also has thousands of enraged geeks at their back.