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Matteo Martini
16th February 2008, 05:01 PM
Please read this..
Please, beware that the country we are talking about is not Angola, and is located in Europe!!

http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2008/02/german_brothers_declare_war_on_1.html#comments
My appeal to the German people published in the weekly Die Zeit.
”Italy is launching an appeal to our German brothers. Declare war on us. We will surrender willingly. You won’t even have to fire one rifle shot. We will throw violets and mimosa to your Franz and Gunther as they march through. You are our final hope. Meanwhile, while you reflect and prepare your armoured tanks, we would like you to take care of our public employees. Every day we are sending you by train our rubbish from Campania. Our politicians are toxic waste, we just need to add a few extra wagons, shut tight, so that they too, arrive at Berlin or Cologne. Please take them too. When they arrive, thermo-valorise them straight away. They are more contagious than Ebola or the West Nile virus. We will pay you well. I give you my word that you will not get in exchange, bonds from Parmalat, the greatest collapse in history, or from Cirio and not even shares of Alitalia, that is losing a million Euro a day. I can even reassure you about the State bonds: they won’t be part of the payment. Italy has the biggest public debt in Europe, about 1,626 billion euro. If they had to reimburse all the different types of Treasury Bonds, the Italian State would declare itself bankrupt and the people would be shooting in the streets.
I would like to suggest to you a few names for the sealed wagons. You know many of them, they are even famous abroad, like Berlusconi who offended one of your representatives in the European Community labeling him a kapò. A man who has created himself with a tiny bit of help from friends. In Italy, friendship is sacred and if the friends are called Bettino Craxi, who died as a fugitive from justice in Tunisia, or Marcello Dell’Utri, convicted for tax fraud and false invoicing and the creator of Forza Italia, or Licio Gelli, convicted for having infiltrated his organisation, the P2, in all sectors of the Italian State, you can close an eye. Friends are never betrayed, above all if they exchange the favours. Craxi, for example, made an ad hoc decree that allowed him to have 3 national TV channels with which he could do political propaganda for his party and Gelli signed him up in his organisation of delinquents. Berlusconi also owns Mondadori, the most important Italian publishing group. He was judged thanks to the corruption of the judges by his trusted lawyer, Cesare Previti, who then ended up in prison. If Merkel were to own 3 TV channels and 40 of the daily and weekly publications, she would not need to do the Grosse Koalition. She would have 80% of the vote at the elections. Why don’t you suggest it to her?
With us, the conflict of interests is a funny story that the Centre Left has been telling us for years. Its leaders in reality, pass their time talking about banks and insurance on the telephone, someone goes sailing, someone goes to Arcore to reassure Berlusconi. They are called Violante, Fassino, D’Alema. The latter two are being investigated by the Milan prosecutors. The judge is called Clementina Forleo. Her parents died in a strange accident after they were threatened and she has been made out to be mad by the media, put on trial and transferred. I would also like you to take Veltroni, the new one that is left over, a politician that got his training in the 1970s and he has been given a new coat of paint with the new colours of the Democratic Party (PD). A new brand that is a substitute for the Democrats of the Left (DS) that had replaced the name Democratic Party of the Left (PDS) that came after the Italian Communist Party (PCI). Our politicians are chameleons. They change name and colour but they stay always the same. They hope that the voters will forget that Italian politics has been the worst in Europe in the last 20 years.
I wouldn’t want you to forget Mastella who lives in Ceppaloni. A gentleman who has amused the world. He believed he was the Minister of Justice, but he had a token role. They made him a minister with a giant lollipop and a precise mission: to do the Great Pardon. The first action of the Prodi government was to liberate 24,000 prisoners and the not-put-in-prison hundreds of public officials connected to the parties. Mastella spent so much of his time being photographed in prison with the inmates that they adopted him. He had to resign because his wife ended up under house arrest for abuse of power as a public official, together with an imprecise number of leaders from his family-led party. Dini, a former President of the Council, is extra-toxic waste. He is 77 years old and his internal organs, in particular, his brain, are decomposed. His beautiful wife has been convicted for bankruptcy and sentenced to 2 years and a few months. In Italy, that’s a merit point and he is rightly proud.
I’m asking you to do a raid in Parliament to fill the wagons. You will find 24 who have been convicted and have had their final appeals, for crimes that go from association in armed gangs, to fraud, to giving false witness, to mafia association. Added to these magnificent 24 there are those who have been convicted and have as yet had no appeal or just one appeal, in all about a hundred ruffians. With us “Prescritto” means that the conviction arrived too late to end up in prison. The world champion for this crime is the 90 year old Giulio Andreotti, to be accompanied to the wagon in a wheelchair. He has been convicted for being close to the mafia, but out of time. This is why he was promoted to being a life senator. Perhaps you came to hear that the Governor of Sicily was found guilty in January, for having acted in favour of certain mafia people, and he got a sentence of 5 years, as well as the prohibition on holding public office. He ate a plate of pasties to celebrate. (He thought he would get a lot longer) and then he was forced to resign. But he won’t serve a day in prison even if he gets confirmation of the conviction at the final appeal (with us there are 3 levels of conviction). Two years are done away with for every citizen and three are a pretty little gift from the Great Pardon law from the eloquent Mastella (he’s got a waist measurement of 200 centimetres, he eats like a warthog). To make up for that, Cuffaro will go into Parliament, appointed by his party. In fact, our electoral law, imposed with a sleight of hand by Berlusconi before giving up the position of President of the Council in 2006, sets out that deputies and senators are appointed by the party secretaries and not elected by the Italians. In Parliament, there are many wives, lovers, clerks, lackeys, yes-men, convicts, mafia people, and camorra people. The citizen can just make a mark on a symbol.
Many say that we will end up like Argentina. In reality we have already done so. But we are ashamed to say so openly. There are almost 6 million precarious workers in Italy who work one month on and one month off. The luckiest earn 800 euro a month. They are young men and women who will never have a pension. Every year the number increases. Italian industry is Fiat and little else. The big groups are State concessionaires, motorways, telecommunications, energy: they are monopolies. Foreign investments in Italy have collapsed. Spain has overtaken us. In European classifications we are always next to the last or last. Each time we are competing with Greece. Italy has the highest number of frauds in relation to the European Community. European funds, about 9 billion a year, finish up almost all in 3 Italian regions: Campania, Calabria and Sicilia, where the Camorra, Ndrangheta and Mafia are in command. A black hole of mixing between politics and organised crime. I could go on for hours, but I don’t have the courage or the space. Let the train start off as soon as possible and invade us. The Italians are on your side. “Cry for me, Deutschland”. Beppe Grillo

Gord_in_Toronto
17th February 2008, 10:09 AM
But do the trains run on time? :rolleyes:

fuelair
17th February 2008, 02:30 PM
The English translation could use a little work. obviously it is one or more Italians upset at the collusions among political and business leaders and wants Germany to handle it apparently for payment in Lira, not worthless/trick stocks and bonds. And it lists hows and wheres and whys that it should be done. Interesting. Are we to discuss it, argue it, figure it out, see how it relates to the evils of US culture? Enquiring minds want to know.

ZeeGerman
18th February 2008, 01:20 PM
Oh, I just think Matteo shares the blues expressed in the article regarding the general mess Italy is government-wise. After all this country has changed prime ministers since 1953 no less than 36 times (if I counted correctly). And guess who was the prime minster with the longest term in all those years. Berlusconi made it for 6 years straight and he is not only the richest Italian, he also basically owns the whole media. Oh, and the only PM who stayed in office longer than him was the Duce himself. Great, innit :)

BTW, the original article in Die Zeit is on the table right next to my laptop and the translation seems pretty accurate to me.

Zee

Garrette
18th February 2008, 01:40 PM
While I sympathize with Italy's plight (and regret it, too; I like Italy), it is good to see that my own country is not in the worst condition.

On the other hand, I put on my "You Think You Got Troubles?" hat and say:

Per Capital Italian Debt: $41

Per Capita United Staes Debt: $30545

Darth Rotor
18th February 2008, 02:36 PM
Please read this..

Please, beware that the country we are talking about is not Angola, and is located in Europe!!
Matteo, I've heard more than one (Northerner) Italian opine that the area around Naples, and south of it, is there Africa and the Third World starts.

Would I guess correctly that you are a fan of Umberto Bossi? (Or perhaps the author of this article is?)
http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2008/02/german_brothers_declare_war_on_1.html#comments

My appeal to the German people published in the weekly Die Zeit.

”Italy is launching an appeal to our German brothers. Declare war on us. We will surrender willingly. You won’t even have to fire one rifle shot.
True to form, Italy did the same in 1943. :p (OK, that was a cheap shot.)
We will throw violets and mimosa to your Franz and Gunther as they march through. You are our final hope.
What? Italians can't sort out their own affairs? They have to run crying to Germans? Uh, maybe mye cheap shot about 1943 isn't so far off the mark.
Meanwhile, while you reflect and prepare your armoured tanks, we would like you to take care of our public employees. Every day we are sending you by train our rubbish from Campania. Our politicians are toxic waste, we just need to add a few extra wagons, shut tight, so that they too, arrive at Berlin or Cologne. Please take them too.
I am trying to see where the Germans get any benefit from this deal.
When they arrive, thermo-valorise them straight away. They are more contagious than Ebola or the West Nile virus. We will pay you well. I give you my word that you will not get in exchange, bonds from Parmalat, the greatest collapse in history, or from Cirio and not even shares of Alitalia, that is losing a million Euro a day. I can even reassure you about the State bonds: they won’t be part of the payment. Italy has the biggest public debt in Europe, about 1,626 billion euro. If they had to reimburse all the different types of Treasury Bonds, the Italian State would declare itself bankrupt and the people would be shooting in the streets.
How so, with Italian gun laws so strict? :confused:
I would like to suggest to you a few names for the sealed wagons. You know many of them, they are even famous abroad, like Berlusconi who offended one of your representatives in the European Community labeling him a kapò. A man who has created himself with a tiny bit of help from friends. In Italy, friendship is sacred and if the friends are called Bettino Craxi, who died as a fugitive from justice in Tunisia, or Marcello Dell’Utri, convicted for tax fraud and false invoicing and the creator of Forza Italia, or Licio Gelli, convicted for having infiltrated his organisation, the P2, in all sectors of the Italian State, you can close an eye. Friends are never betrayed, above all if they exchange the favours.
That's politics the world over, my friend, and Scooter Libby is grateful. :p
Craxi, for example, made an ad hoc decree that allowed him to have 3 national TV channels with which he could do political propaganda for his party and Gelli signed him up in his organisation of delinquents. Berlusconi also owns Mondadori, the most important Italian publishing group. He was judged thanks to the corruption of the judges by his trusted lawyer, Cesare Previti, who then ended up in prison. If Merkel were to own 3 TV channels and 40 of the daily and weekly publications, she would not need to do the Grosse Koalition. She would have 80% of the vote at the elections. Why don’t you suggest it to her?
I recall that few centuries ago (from about 1100-1600) that the Austrian/German Emperors campaigned time and again in Italy, and that the landsknecht, condotierri and various mercenary bands made life hell in all of the regiones. You want to see this again? I doubt Ms Merkel does. I hear a contractor, Blackwater, might be looking for new work if this Iraq thing turns any more sour. (Condotierri and contractors are rough equivalents.)
With us, the conflict of interests is a funny story that the Centre Left has been telling us for years. Its leaders in reality, pass their time talking about banks and insurance on the telephone, someone goes sailing, someone goes to Arcore to reassure Berlusconi. They are called Violante, Fassino, D’Alema. The latter two are being investigated by the Milan prosecutors. The judge is called Clementina Forleo. Her parents died in a strange accident after they were threatened and she has been made out to be mad by the media, put on trial and transferred. I would also like you to take Veltroni, the new one that is left over, a politician that got his training in the 1970s and he has been given a new coat of paint with the new colours of the Democratic Party (PD). A new brand that is a substitute for the Democrats of the Left (DS) that had replaced the name Democratic Party of the Left (PDS) that came after the Italian Communist Party (PCI).

Our politicians are chameleons. They change name and colour but they stay always the same. They hope that the voters will forget that Italian politics has been the worst in Europe in the last 20 years.
Hmm, the politics of Yugoslavia was worse, since 1998, but let's not ask an Italian not to be overdramatic. :p
I wouldn’t want you to forget Mastella who lives in Ceppaloni. A gentleman who has amused the world. He believed he was the Minister of Justice, but he had a token role. They made him a minister with a giant lollipop and a precise mission: to do the Great Pardon. The first action of the Prodi government was to liberate 24,000 prisoners and the not-put-in-prison hundreds of public officials connected to the parties.
Maybe he had a debt he owed La Famiglia. ;) Or maybe La Camorra.
Mastella spent so much of his time being photographed in prison with the inmates that they adopted him. He had to resign because his wife ended up under house arrest for abuse of power as a public official, together with an imprecise number of leaders from his family-led party. Dini, a former President of the Council, is extra-toxic waste. He is 77 years old and his internal organs, in particular, his brain, are decomposed. His beautiful wife has been convicted for bankruptcy and sentenced to 2 years and a few months. In Italy, that’s a merit point and he is rightly proud.
Yeah, yeah, and Sophia Lauren was put in women's prison on Nisida Island for tax evasion. *yawn*
I’m asking you to do a raid in Parliament to fill the wagons. You will find 24 who have been convicted and have had their final appeals, for crimes that go from association in armed gangs, to fraud, to giving false witness, to mafia association. Added to these magnificent 24 there are those who have been convicted and have as yet had no appeal or just one appeal, in all about a hundred ruffians. With us “Prescritto” means that the conviction arrived too late to end up in prison. The world champion for this crime is the 90 year old Giulio Andreotti, to be accompanied to the wagon in a wheelchair. He has been convicted for being close to the mafia, but out of time. This is why he was promoted to being a life senator. Perhaps you came to hear that the Governor of Sicily was found guilty in January, for having acted in favour of certain mafia people, and he got a sentence of 5 years, as well as the prohibition on holding public office. He ate a plate of pasties to celebrate. (He thought he would get a lot longer) and then he was forced to resign. But he won’t serve a day in prison even if he gets confirmation of the conviction at the final appeal (with us there are 3 levels of conviction). Two years are done away with for every citizen and three are a pretty little gift from the Great Pardon law from the eloquent Mastella (he’s got a waist measurement of 200 centimetres, he eats like a warthog). To make up for that, Cuffaro will go into Parliament, appointed by his party. In fact, our electoral law, imposed with a sleight of hand by Berlusconi before giving up the position of President of the Council in 2006, sets out that deputies and senators are appointed by the party secretaries and not elected by the Italians. In Parliament, there are many wives, lovers, clerks, lackeys, yes-men, convicts, mafia people, and camorra people. The citizen can just make a mark on a symbol.
What sort of gutlessness does it take the cry to a foreigner to help you solve your own problems?

These men would turn over in their graves:

Luigi DURAND DE LA PENNE
and his comrades
Bianchi
Martellotta
Marino
Marceglia
Schergat

Italian frogmen who took out the battleship Queen Elizabeth in Alexandria harbor, WW II. Bold men. Not sniveling cowards.

Many say that we will end up like Argentina. In reality we have already done so. But we are ashamed to say so openly. There are almost 6 million precarious workers in Italy who work one month on and one month off. The luckiest earn 800 euro a month. They are young men and women who will never have a pension. Every year the number increases. Italian industry is Fiat and little else. The big groups are State concessionaires, motorways, telecommunications, energy: they are monopolies. Foreign investments in Italy have collapsed. Spain has overtaken us. In European classifications we are always next to the last or last. Each time we are competing with Greece. Italy has the highest number of frauds in relation to the European Community. European funds, about 9 billion a year, finish up almost all in 3 Italian regions: Campania, Calabria and Sicilia, where the Camorra, Ndrangheta and Mafia are in command. A black hole of mixing between politics and organised crime. I could go on for hours, but I don’t have the courage or the space. Let the train start off as soon as possible and invade us. The Italians are on your side. “Cry for me, Deutschland”. Beppe Grillo
Yep, don't have the courage.

For shame. :(

Italy has better men than this. Find them and support them. Don't go crying to the Germans with your problems.

DR

ZeeGerman
19th February 2008, 02:55 AM
AFAIK Beppo Grillo is Italians most famous satirist who was more or less banned from TV for his showing up so many politicians. It's a skit folks and the whole "Germans help us" is just an exploit of a cliche about the thourough and well organized Huns. Do you guys always need a smilie patched to everything which is not meant literally?

Zee

Garrette
19th February 2008, 05:59 AM
We got that it was satire, ZeeGerman, but took the opportunity to comment on the situation anyway. I did it a bit more lightheartedly while Darth Rotor did it a bit more seriously, but we both got it. If you doubt it, then you would have to doubt whether you got it yourself when you wrote post #4.

Matteo Martini
20th February 2008, 07:13 PM
But do the trains run on time? :rolleyes:

No

Matteo Martini
20th February 2008, 07:15 PM
The English translation could use a little work. obviously it is one or more Italians upset at the collusions among political and business leaders and wants Germany to handle it apparently for payment in Lira, not worthless/trick stocks and bonds. And it lists hows and wheres and whys that it should be done. Interesting. Are we to discuss it, argue it, figure it out, see how it relates to the evils of US culture? Enquiring minds want to know.

Why you want to relate Italy`s evils with US`s evils?
I do not think the US have a Mafia Man as president.
Italy will soon have (and had in the past) a Mafia-connected Prime Minister

Matteo Martini
20th February 2008, 07:25 PM
Matteo, I've heard more than one (Northerner) Italian opine that the area around Naples, and south of it, is there Africa and the Third World starts.

Would I guess correctly that you are a fan of Umberto Bossi? (Or perhaps the author of this article is?)
http://www.beppegrillo.it/eng/2008/02/german_brothers_declare_war_on_1.html#comments


Neither Matteo nor the author of the article.
BTW, Bossi also got bribes..


True to form, Italy did the same in 1943. :p (OK, that was a cheap shot.)

What? Italians can't sort out their own affairs? They have to run crying to Germans? Uh, maybe mye cheap shot about 1943 isn't so far off the mark.


Ah! Ah!
BTW, we did not surrender to Germans, that time


I am trying to see where the Germans get any benefit from this deal.


I think the article was little bit ironic, about that deal


How so, with Italian gun laws so strict? :confused:


Again, do not read it literally


That's politics the world over, my friend, and Scooter Libby is grateful. :p


No.
Politics does not go on like that in the US.
You do not have Mafia Man at the government in the US
Neither Obama nor Bush own televisions.
No briber who has been found can survive long in the US Senate


I recall that few centuries ago (from about 1100-1600) that the Austrian/German Emperors campaigned time and again in Italy, and that the landsknecht, condotierri and various mercenary bands made life hell in all of the regiones. You want to see this again? I doubt Ms Merkel does. I hear a contractor, Blackwater, might be looking for new work if this Iraq thing turns any more sour. (Condotierri and contractors are rough equivalents.)


I think the article was little bit ironic, about that deal


Hmm, the politics of Yugoslavia was worse, since 1998, but let's not ask an Italian not to be overdramatic. :p


And Zimbabwe even worse.
So?


Maybe he had a debt he owed La Famiglia. ;) Or maybe La Camorra.


Yes..


Yeah, yeah, and Sophia Lauren was put in women's prison on Nisida Island for tax evasion. *yawn*


??
What?


What sort of gutlessness does it take the cry to a foreigner to help you solve your own problems?


I think the article was little bit ironic, about that deal


These men would turn over in their graves:

Luigi DURAND DE LA PENNE
and his comrades
Bianchi
Martellotta
Marino
Marceglia
Schergat

Italian frogmen who took out the battleship Queen Elizabeth in Alexandria harbor, WW II. Bold men. Not sniveling cowards.


??
What??


Yep, don't have the courage.

For shame. :(

Italy has better men than this. Find them and support them. Don't go crying to the Germans with your problems.

DR

I think the article was little bit ironic, about that deal

Matteo Martini
20th February 2008, 07:26 PM
AFAIK Beppo Grillo is Italians most famous satirist who was more or less banned from TV for his showing up so many politicians. It's a skit folks and the whole "Germans help us" is just an exploit of a cliche about the thourough and well organized Huns. Do you guys always need a smilie patched to everything which is not meant literally?

Zee

Do you REALLY think they thought the deal had to be intended literally??

armageddonman
21st February 2008, 02:24 AM
While I sympathize with Italy's plight (and regret it, too; I like Italy), it is good to see that my own country is not in the worst condition.

On the other hand, I put on my "You Think You Got Troubles?" hat and say:

Per Capital Italian Debt: $41

Per Capita United Staes Debt: $30545

Make that $41000. It should have said "Trillion".

Darth Rotor
21st February 2008, 12:19 PM
Neither Matteo nor the author of the article.
BTW, Bossi also got bribes.
Of course, Matteo, he was a politican.
BTW, we did not surrender to Germans, that time
True. :)
Politics does not go on like that in the US.
You do not have Mafia Man at the government in the US
Neither Obama nor Bush own televisions.
No briber who has been found can survive long in the US Senate
May I introduce you to Skeptigirl, Matteo? Jerome Da Gnome? ConspiRaider? They might take issue with this perception of the American government. However, I must confess, I think the Italians are very good at the insider "working a deal" business, so credit where credit is due. :)
What??
Courage, and Italian Frogmen. It's from your nation's history. A nice counter to a few too many people who dismiss Italian military as something less than brave. De La Penne's name still sails the seas, on this fine ship of war (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/durand/)in the Italian Navy.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1096247bdcd59b05ea.jpg

I suppose I shall have to be disappointed that the free Padonia movement is not going to merge Padonia with Germany. I had five bucks bet on it, and 2010 is nearly here. Alistair McAlpine's worries are, it seems, overstated.
I spotted a placard written in English, for, I suppose, the benefit of the American media. I realized that there I was in the midst of a demonstration by the curious Mr. Bossi's political party, the Northern League. They were declaring independence for Northern Italy. In the time it took to eat my breakfast I was transported involuntarily from living in Italy to living in Padonia. I now know how Garibaldi must have felt when, having campaigned remorselessly for the uniting of the many separate Italian states into the nation of Italy, he found that his own part of the state of Piedmont was given to the French. At the moment of his triumph Garibaldi was suddenly a Frenchman.
Of course, Garibaldi was Piedmontese, not French. :)

DR

Garrette
21st February 2008, 01:07 PM
Make that $41000. It should have said "Trillion".Holy schmokes, batman!

Matteo Martini
21st February 2008, 06:27 PM
Courage, and Italian Frogmen. It's from your nation's history. A nice counter to a few too many people who dismiss Italian military as something less than brave. De La Penne's name still sails the seas, on this fine ship of war (http://www.naval-technology.com/projects/durand/)in the Italian Navy.
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1096247bdcd59b05ea.jpg


OK, I am not so complexed about Italians being cowards..
There are brave people in all the armies, but I would not consider not surrending in WWII", as being "brave". I consider it as being "stupid".
Our mistake was to enter WWII with Hitler, to suddender was not a cowardry (it costed many many Italians being killed by Germans, BTW)..


I suppose I shall have to be disappointed that the free Padonia movement is not going to merge Padonia with Germany. I had five bucks bet on it, and 2010 is nearly here. Alistair McAlpine's worries are, it seems, overstated.


Nobody in Italy wants to merge with Germany.
That was irony..
BTW, it is "Padania", not "Padonia"

Gord_in_Toronto
21st February 2008, 08:27 PM
No

Sigh. Another myth from my youth ruined. I'm off to bed in deep sorrow now. :blush:

Garrette
22nd February 2008, 06:39 AM
OK, I am not so complexed about Italians being cowards..
There are brave people in all the armies, but I would not consider not surrending in WWII", as being "brave". I consider it as being "stupid".
Our mistake was to enter WWII with Hitler, to suddender was not a cowardry (it costed many many Italians being killed by Germans, BTW)..This may be an example of military folk being more ready to accept a distinction between the acts of military folk and the decisions of their leaders.

Entering WWII on Germany's side may well have been stupid, possibly even cowardly at a national level, but the soldiers did not make those decisions. They carried out lawful orders and often did so with great professionalism and bravery.

ETA: Sort of like admiring the horse who wins from behind coming on the outside even though the jockey was an idiot for letting him get in that position and a jerk for whipping the jockey next to him.[/

Darth Rotor
22nd February 2008, 12:25 PM
OK, I am not so complexed about Italians being cowards. There are brave people in all the armies, but I would not consider not surrending in WWII", as being "brave". I consider it as being "stupid".
FWIW, both British General Wavell, and German General Rommel, observed independently that it was a shame to see so many good, brave Italian soldiers so badly led. A top down problem, perhaps.
Our mistake was to enter WWII with Hitler
Indeed. Glad to see Italy survived that mistake.
BTW, it is "Padania", not "Padonia"
Thanks, not sure why the "o" gets in there in a lot of English language articles. Appreciate the correction.

DR

dudalb
22nd February 2008, 12:37 PM
Everytime I think that the US is messed up politically,I look at Italy and cheer up.

Matteo Martini
27th February 2008, 06:03 AM
Indeed. Glad to see Italy survived that mistake.


With some million deaths.
Poland, Russia and China, survived too, with some 10 million+ deaths each, while (some) Italians deserved to die, I do not think Polish and Chinese deserved that..

Everytime I think that the US is messed up politically,I look at Italy and cheer up.

Agreed!!