Fidel Castro Resigns as Cuba's Leader [Archive]

richardm

19th February 2008, 03:06 AM

Seriously, I hope this will be catalyst for the next US president to drop the embargo. Trade could be the catalyst for them to finally dump communism.

Could be, but hasn't Raul Castro been effectively running the country for some time? When he took over it was said that he was even more hardline than his brother. So is anything really likely to change, I wonder? It would be nice if it did but I suspect we'll have to wait for the next round of leadership to break things open.

HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP

19th February 2008, 04:50 AM

This guy that I know went to Cuba. he first had to go to mexico and from there
he flew to cuba. he told me that cubans only eat 2 times a day.
for breakfast they eat a one(1) hard-boiled egg and a glass of water.
for lunch and dinner(which is anywhere after 4:00pm) they go to the "main house"
with their pocket notebook to get one pound of rice and bean per family member and a
"stamp" in their book. they can't go to another village to get extra food because they already got their little book stamped.
cubans aren't allowed inside the turist hotels but the guy I know invited them over and the hotel manager agreed.
they all ate a steak and what do you know.......some of those cubans were in their 50's and that was their first time eating steak.
I also asked him to ask cubans how they felt about castro and quite interestingly, most of them ARE afraid of his brother and they even believe it was him and not Fidel running the country all along.
I have seen some Cubans on TV where for years, they have always complained about being here in the U.S. and would love to go back to Cuba and open up some bussiness over there.
I would love to open up a steak restaurant myself!

Safe-Keeper

19th February 2008, 05:54 AM

Big news. Although sadly, it apparently doesn't mean instant democracy and everyone living happily ever after.

Darat

19th February 2008, 05:55 AM

Seriously, I hope this will be catalyst for the next US president to drop the embargo. Trade could be the catalyst for them to finally dump communism.

Doesn't the current USA legislation cover both of the brothers?

ponderingturtle

19th February 2008, 05:58 AM

Could be, but hasn't Raul Castro been effectively running the country for some time? When he took over it was said that he was even more hardline than his brother. So is anything really likely to change, I wonder? It would be nice if it did but I suspect we'll have to wait for the next round of leadership to break things open.

He has been running the country, but Fidel has also undercut him on certain issues that he promoted. And the title might not be correct, he will not be the president of Cuba anymore, but that does not mean he will not have some final say in how the country is run.

Almo

19th February 2008, 07:52 AM

Well, Fidel and I are going to open a chain of Kentucky Fried Chicken shops.

+5 for the reference.

I get +5!!

Suddenly, CIA men dressed in bikinis tried to stab us with fountain pens. Fidel blew mustard gas through his cigar, and immobilized the lot of them.

Was Not Was - "I Feel Better Than James Brown"

No, I didn't look it up. I like this album quite a lot!

Beerina

19th February 2008, 08:13 AM

Communism isn't about "the people" -- that's a ruse to get the masses behind you so you can live the sweet life as a dictator.

With that as a premise, I therefore predict that "brother" will keep things going since he wants to remain in power, unless he's incompetent, in which case someone else will take over.

headscratcher4

19th February 2008, 08:15 AM

Doesn't the current USA legislation cover both of the brothers?

I believe you're right, the Castros are convertiable. (its a sofa joke).

headscratcher4

19th February 2008, 08:27 AM

What I thought facinating...was at the close of his message to the people of Cuba, he says he isn't saying farewell, but he will remain a soldier int he battle of ideas. Amazing.

He is a soldier in the battle of his own ideas...everyone elses ideas can be suppressed, bullied, changed by fear or lethargy, so long as Fidel's ideas win out. The battle for ideas means real intellectual, rational discussion. The cry of counter revolutionary as the means of political supression strangles ideas in their incubator.

Cuba will be well rid of him.

At the same time, we must not forget that Castro stands for ultimate Cuban nationalism. He fought the United States and kept them out of Cuba. And than he used that battle to keep control of his people who, in their national pride, are it seems as determined to have Cuban self-determination and a country that isn't the U.S. puppet it was when Castro lead his revolution.

Somehow, we in the U.S. need a new arrangement. I am convinced that our inability to move when it comes to Cuba and Castro -- i.e. perpetual embargo -- has resulted in the solidifying the regime and its long life. It is difficult to believe that were relations and trade normalized -- even more or less on Castro's terms -- that there wouldn't be more dissent. Young people exposed to more ideas and the inequities in Cuban life as well as the possiblities of a borader world. Rap music, skateboards and tourists would have a far more profound effect on the futuer of the Cuban revolution than gunboats and threats, IMO.

Ausmerican

19th February 2008, 09:06 AM

This guy that I know went to Cuba. he first had to go to mexico and from there
he flew to cuba. he told me that cubans only eat 2 times a day.
for breakfast they eat a one(1) hard-boiled egg and a glass of water.
for lunch and dinner(which is anywhere after 4:00pm) they go to the "main house"
with their pocket notebook to get one pound of rice and bean per family member and a
"stamp" in their book. they can't go to another village to get extra food because they already got their little book stamped.
cubans aren't allowed inside the turist hotels but the guy I know invited them over and the hotel manager agreed.
they all ate a steak and what do you know.......some of those cubans were in their 50's and that was their first time eating steak.

"This guy you know" sounds like he is 100% full of it.
Just idly wondering, anyone know how many dictators actually make it to retirement age? Wouldn't think it would be too high a number. And what does one get a retiring dictator? In this case I am thinking cigars would be a waste of time. A gold hand grenade perhaps?

Nogbad

19th February 2008, 09:19 AM

Haven't been myself but those I know who have gone say it is a cracking place and it would be great if they did loosen their stays a tad and got with it. The embargo only ever hurt the ordinary people not the leaders.

Certainly, if the US embargo was lifted there would be an influx of dollars to the island - it is potentially quite a market. That said has the embargo had as much of an impact in recent years - say the last decade or so? Cuba is a popular holiday destination for Europeans and the rise of S American leaders like Chavez who are happy to trade with Cuba also circumvent a lot of the restrictions. I think it is possible to see cars of more recent vintage than 1957 these days.

Even if Raul is just as hard line as Fidel he is not that much younger.

KingMerv00

19th February 2008, 09:19 AM

Well this clearly means that the embargo worked. It only took 45 years. The Cuban people MUST be dancing in the street, embracing capitalism, and waving American flags by now. I'm sure CNN will post those photos on its website momentarily...

*Cough*

Um? Hello?

Maybe they have bandwidth problems?

ponderingturtle

19th February 2008, 09:35 AM

timhau

19th February 2008, 10:51 AM

Just idly wondering, anyone know how many dictators actually make it to retirement age? Wouldn't think it would be too high a number. And what does one get a retiring dictator? In this case I am thinking cigars would be a waste of time. A gold hand grenade perhaps?

The only dictator I can think of who retired more or less out of his own free will is Augusto Pinochet. He held a referendum on his position, lost, and stepped down. Sure, he stepped down to a cushy job with full immunity from prosecution, but he did step down. Your typical Amin, Mao, Tito, Hitler, Stalin, Ceaucescu, Duvalier, or Kim either gets driven out by force or holds on to power until his dying breath.

(Let me just add that this is not an endorsement of Pinochet in any way, although I do wonder why his name is so often uttered in the same breath as Hitler or Stalin. Sure, he was not a nice guy, but as far as rotten dictators go, he's a Honecker, not a Stalin.)

grayman

19th February 2008, 11:08 AM

I am waiting to see what sort of comment Venezuela's Chavez has to say.

EvilTB

19th February 2008, 02:10 PM

The only dictator I can think of who retired more or less out of his own free will is Augusto Pinochet. He held a referendum on his position, lost, and stepped down. Sure, he stepped down to a cushy job with full immunity from prosecution, but he did step down. Your typical Amin, Mao, Tito, Hitler, Stalin, Ceaucescu, Duvalier, or Kim either gets driven out by force or holds on to power until his dying breath.

(Let me just add that this is not an endorsement of Pinochet in any way, although I do wonder why his name is so often uttered in the same breath as Hitler or Stalin. Sure, he was not a nice guy, but as far as rotten dictators go, he's a Honecker, not a Stalin.)

I think it has to do with how Pinochet obtained power. He overthrew the first democratically elected Marxist regime. Their leader Salvador Allende was however elected on a plurality and later alienated some of his initial supporters who accused him of violating the nation's constitution.

I think most people who compare Pinochet to Hitler or whoever are probably those who are sympathetic toward the Castro regime.

Darth Rotor

19th February 2008, 02:19 PM

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/world/international-cuba-castro.html

Who's in with me on starting a Havana Chevy dealership?
My next short story: Shuffleboard with Fidel. :p

DR

casebro

19th February 2008, 03:33 PM

I wonder how long he has been dead now?

Many pundits predicted that he would die in secret, and the rest of the regime would keep it quiet until Raoul solidified his own hierarchy. The fact that Fidel's statement was 'released', not shown on video, makes me think those pundits correct.

Now to await the timing of Fidels funeral...

Pardalis

19th February 2008, 03:42 PM

Either that, or they finally came to their senses and understood this isn't 1959 anymore, you can't just say the president is fine and film him moving like an idiot and hope people will buy it, anymore.

gtc

19th February 2008, 04:21 PM

No, I didn't look it up. I like this album quite a lot!

I was listening to that album when I read this thread!

Well this clearly means that the embargo worked. It only took 45 years. The Cuban people MUST be dancing in the street, embracing capitalism, and waving American flags by now. I'm sure CNN will post those photos on its website momentarily...

*Cough*

Um? Hello?

Maybe they have bandwidth problems?

Do you think that they would be allowed to celebrate his retirement?

El Greco

19th February 2008, 04:31 PM

Here's how Cubans see Fidel (http://youtube.com/watch?v=VMRldcrjzq0). Playa Giron = Bay of Pigs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bay_of_Pigs_Invasion).

Nogbad

19th February 2008, 04:44 PM

It is probably fair to say that if you asked people back in 1962 if they thought Fidel would retire peacefully at 81 they would have choked on their coca cola.

Whatever the mistakes there will be genuine tears from a lot of Cubans when he pops off.

There will be a lot of fireworks in Miami too of course.

Hutch

19th February 2008, 06:20 PM

Seriously, I hope this will be catalyst for the next US president to drop the embargo. Trade could be the catalyst for them to finally dump communism.

Noble thoughts, but don't bet on it as long as the Cuban-American House of Bourbons still have a voting bloc that can make the difference in Florida (and as shown in 2000, national) elections.

I concur, the one thing Castro had to fear IMHO (dropping the embargo) we never did because of a vocal and influential voting bloc in a critical electoral college state.

YMMV.

Fitter

19th February 2008, 06:49 PM

The only dictator I can think of who retired more or less out of his own free will is Augusto Pinochet. <snip>
Lucius Cornelius Sulla for the antiquarians amongst us.

HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP

19th February 2008, 10:18 PM

"This guy you know" sounds like he is 100% full of it.

He visited cuba last year. have you been there yourself, walking among ordinary cubans?

HENTAI DOUKYUSEI JP

19th February 2008, 10:22 PM

I wonder how long he has been dead now
I think right after he fell down after that speech he gave where he tried to dance " la cucaracha".

gtc

19th February 2008, 11:01 PM

Here is a quote attributed to Castro (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/ten-classic-quotes-from-fidel-castro/2008/02/20/1203467142106.html).

"[The Kremlin] should launch a pre-emptive strike against the US" - Quote attributed to Castro during the 1962 Cuban Missile crisis in the memoirs of former Soviet premier Nikita Khrushchev.

Surely a pre-emptive strike launched from Cuba would have resulted in the destruction of much of Cuba. This seems incredibly reckless to me.

quixotecoyote

19th February 2008, 11:09 PM

Here is a quote attributed to Castro (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/ten-classic-quotes-from-fidel-castro/2008/02/20/1203467142106.html).

Surely a pre-emptive strike launched from Cuba would have resulted in the destruction of much of Cuba. This seems incredibly reckless to me.

It could also be that he thought Cuba was going to be toasted regardless and wanted to take a piece of his enemy with with. There was some ferocious anti-Cuba/anti-Castro rhetoric going on back then.

timhau

20th February 2008, 03:37 AM

Lucius Cornelius Sulla for the antiquarians amongst us.

Well, yeah. Cincinnatus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus) too. But are there other modern-day dictators who gave up their posts voluntarily?

Ian Osborne

20th February 2008, 05:57 AM

Well, yeah. Cincinnatus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnatus) too. But are there other modern-day dictators who gave up their posts voluntarily?

Spanish dictator and Franco's successor, Juan Carlos I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos)?

timhau

20th February 2008, 06:13 AM

Spanish dictator and Franco's successor, Juan Carlos I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juan_Carlos)?

Good one. Let's put him on the list, but with an asterisk -- he started to disassemble the dictatorial rule almost as soon as he gained the powers, and he's better known for his post-dictatorial activities as the royal figurehead. But yes, he could have had those powers, but he turned them down (which is why he's my favorite European monarch).