Is intelligence the most desirable personal trait?

[EGarrett]

When it comes to the various desirable traits that one could choose for themselves, such as good-looks, athleticism, and intelligence...do you think most people would choose great intelligence? The "impossibly beautiful woman" and the legendary athlete or warrior are pretty mythologized, but I think the idea of being a "genius" seems to generate the most discussion and cause the most controversy among people. After all, a lot more people know and talk about Mozart than Jim Thorpe or Marilyn Monroe.

What do you think? Given the choice between being an incredible athlete with average looks and brains, incredibly beautiful with average physical and intellectual traits, or a genius with average looks and athleticism, do you believe most people would take the last one?

(note also: this is a trait for a person to have in themselves, not one they want in others. I think physical beauty is probably number one in that category)

[Dogdoctor]

Who is Mozart? :) I would probably take the intelligence because intelligence can help one to be athletic and more attractive to others.

[rjh01]

What is the definition of intelligence? Is it to do with how much money one makes?

[fishbob]

That combined with not being a complete @$$h0le.

[El Greco]

What do you think? Given the choice between being an incredible athlete with average looks and brains, incredibly beautiful with average physical and intellectual traits, or a genius with average looks and athleticism, do you believe most people would take the last one?

I would choose the trait that would have the most chances of making me filthy rich. So athleticism is out because even if you are the greatest athlete in the world, there are too many unpredictable factors that might prevent success. Genious is also out because intelligence has a lot of facets and many of them are totally unrelated to professional success. So I guess that leaves incredible beauty, because I think it has the most chances of making me likeable to people without me having to do anything much.

But if it was an option, I'd choose extreme social adeptness and adaptability over anything else.

[rjh01]

What about having good interpersonal skills? I think that is important.

Plus good number skills. Have both and you can get a good job. Plus have good friends.

No one has mentioned critical thinking ability.

Still waiting for someone to tell me what intelligence is. I guess no-one knows.

[egslim]

I would choose the trait that would have the most chances of making me filthy rich.
Why? Having money is very nice, but at some point the marginal value of increased wealth becomes very low. Personally I have several higher priorities than becoming filthy rich.

In no particular order:
- A happy family with great wife, kids and grandchildren.
- Excellent personal health.
- A job that brings me great personal satisfaction.
- Enough money to allow me to live comfortably.

Intelligence is both incredibly broad and will last your whole life to a much greater extent than most other features.

[El Greco]

Why? Having money is very nice, but at some point the marginal value of increased wealth becomes very low. Personally I have several higher priorities than becoming filthy rich.

In no particular order:
- A happy family with great wife, kids and grandchildren.
- Excellent personal health.
- A job that brings me great personal satisfaction.
- Enough money to allow me to live comfortably.

Intelligence is both incredibly broad and will last your whole life to a much greater extent than most other features.

Being rich (filthy or not) will increase your chances of having a happy family, taking care of your health and getting satisfaction from your job MUCH more than intelligence will. And as I believe that good looks will help one more than intelligence in becoming rich (or wealthy, or simply well-off), I'd say that with your priorities appearance still trumps intelligence.

[egslim]

Being rich (filthy or not) will increase your chances of having a happy family, taking care of your health and getting satisfaction from your job MUCH more than intelligence will.
We need to distinguish between being or becoming rich. To become rich generally requires very hard work. Not including exceptions like inheritance, winning the lotto or becoming a superstar. The first two are basically a matter of luck, the third is also accompanied by a lack of privacy and other unpleasant pressures.
So back to the hard work. First it attracts women who may be more interested in the money you'll make than in you. Second it leaves you little time to spend with your wife and kids. Neither is a recipe for a happy family.

It's of course nice to be able to afford the best healthcare, but even better if you don't need it in the first place. A strong physical constitution is more valuable to a long and healthy life than money. Not to mention that a life focussed on making money is probably a relatively unhealthy one.

Relatively few jobs make you very rich. If one of those is your dreamjob, then great! If not, you have to chose between jobsatisfaction or more money.

I'm making two points here: One, the marginal value of additional money decreases with wealth. And two, time is also a valuable good that at some point is worth more than money.

And as I believe that good looks will help one more than intelligence in becoming rich (or wealthy, or simply well-off),
How will good looks do that? In addition, good looks can be created by exercise, dress, self-confidence and plastic surgery. But lacking intelligence means staying dumb forever.

[El Greco]

We need to distinguish between being or becoming rich. To become rich generally requires very hard work. Not including exceptions like inheritance, winning the lotto or becoming a superstar. The first two are basically a matter of luck, the third is also accompanied by a lack of privacy and other unpleasant pressures.
So back to the hard work. First it attracts women who may be more interested in the money you'll make than in you. Second it leaves you little time to spend with your wife and kids. Neither is a recipe for a happy family.

Hard work to become rich is more necessary the less advantages you have. Great social skills, good looks, intelligence, a special talent, a great business mind etc will make wealth more probable with the same amount of work everybody else does. We tend to focus on how much very rich people have worked in their life and forget that there are millions of more hard working people who have stayed poor or average for all of their lives.


It's of course nice to be able to afford the best healthcare, but even better if you don't need it in the first place. A strong physical constitution is more valuable to a long and healthy life than money.

A "strong physical constitution" was not among the three options we were offered. Being a great athlete is a completely different thing.

Relatively few jobs make you very rich. If one of those is your dreamjob, then great! If not, you have to chose between jobsatisfaction or more money.

If you have enough money, you can choose almost any job you like. Or nothing at all.


I'm making two points here: One, the marginal value of additional money decreases with wealth. And two, time is also a valuable good that at some point is worth more than money.

Time is a function of money. With enough money, I'd have all the time in the world. Consider that to be my own point of determining when money is enough.

How will good looks do that? In addition, good looks can be created by exercise, dress, self-confidence and plastic surgery. But lacking intelligence means staying dumb forever.

First of all, the OP didn't talk about "staying dumb". It mentioned average intelligence.
As to how good looks would bring money, it's easy: Good looks is the closest of the three traits in the OP to what I consider the best trait, ie social adeptness. Beautiful people get better jobs, get payed more, are more likely to generate positive social impact (assuming standard social abilities), etc.

[egslim]

Hard work to become rich is more necessary the less advantages you have.
To become exceptionally (filthy) rich requires both and a lot of luck.

A "strong physical constitution" was not among the three options we were offered.
Actually the OP merely gave three suggestions ("such as") for desirable traits, the way I read it we're free to think of other ones.

As to how good looks would bring money, it's easy: Good looks is the closest of the three traits in the OP to what I consider the best trait, ie social adeptness.
Social skills can be learned, which brings us back to intelligence. And while they are very useful, at some point you have to back them up with other talents.

[Modified]

Social skills can be learned, which brings us back to intelligence. And while they are very useful, at some point you have to back them up with other talents.

If you're a salesman, social skills are the only talent you need.

[Darth Rotor]

When it comes to the various desirable traits that one could choose for themselves, such as good-looks, athleticism, and intelligence...do you think most people would choose great intelligence? The "impossibly beautiful woman" and the legendary athlete or warrior are pretty mythologized, but I think the idea of being a "genius" seems to generate the most discussion and cause the most controversy among people. After all, a lot more people know and talk about Mozart than Jim Thorpe or Marilyn Monroe.

What do you think? Given the choice between being an incredible athlete with average looks and brains, incredibly beautiful with average physical and intellectual traits, or a genius with average looks and athleticism, do you believe most people would take the last one?

(note also: this is a trait for a person to have in themselves, not one they want in others. I think physical beauty is probably number one in that category)
If one is dim enough to focus on one attribute, one deserves the relationships one becomes involved in.

Smart shoppers look for a package deal.

DR

[EGarrett]

If one is dim enough to focus on one attribute, one deserves the relationships one becomes involved in.

Smart shoppers look for a package deal.

DRThat's not the question at hand.

[Tsukasa Buddha]

If one is dim enough to focus on one attribute, one deserves the relationships one becomes involved in.

Smart shoppers look for a package deal.

DR

That's right...

Having a bigger package beats intelligence any day of the week!

[El Greco]

Social skills can be learned, which brings us back to intelligence. And while they are very useful, at some point you have to back them up with other talents.

You are presupposing a certain type of intelligence. In this very forum for example, there are a lot of very intelligent people who have admitted they have lots of problems with their social life. They want to mend that but they can't. "Intelligent" can have a lot of different meanings and many of them are not helpful at all in finding happiness.

[Dogdoctor]

You are presupposing a certain type of intelligence. In this very forum for example, there are a lot of very intelligent people who have admitted they have lots of problems with their social life. They want to mend that but they can't. "Intelligent" can have a lot of different meanings and many of them are not helpful at all in finding happiness.
I'm betting that most of those who are intelligent yet lack social skills could learn them if they had enough desire to learn that it overcame the mental blocks they have about it. They just need to get rid of their mistaken concepts about society and apply themselves to learning. Well except for those who suffer from psychological disorders.

[El Greco]

I'm betting that most of those who are intelligent yet lack social skills could learn them if they had enough desire to learn that it overcame the mental blocks they have about it. They just need to get rid of their mistaken concepts about society and apply themselves to learning. Well except for those who suffer from psychological disorders.


Perhaps some could, but most couldn't. Being introvert for example: It may have genetic roots, hurts socialization a lot and is not a psychological disorder.

[slingblade]

I often wish I were too stupid to know I'm that stupid. Being smart enough to know you're stupid isn't any fun.

[Darth Rotor]

That's not the question at hand.
Your question presumes that a single most desirable trait is a valid criterion for selection. Your arena is personal characteristics.
What do you think?
Given the choice between being an incredible athlete with average looks and brains, incredibly beautiful with average physical and intellectual traits, or a genius with average looks and athleticism, do you believe most people would take the last one?
False dilemma.

Such reductionism is self defeating.

No matter, I've offered an input to your topic. Nothing more to add.

Enjoy.

DR

[Dogdoctor]

Perhaps some could, but most couldn't. Being introvert for example: It may have genetic roots, hurts socialization a lot and is not a psychological disorder.

People make excuses for not doing stuff. If they can get past their own excuses then maybe they can learn. Sure it's genetic. That's a real good excuse. Truth is you may be genetically predisposed to being an introvert but not hardwired. Genetics may keep you from being better than the best but not from being better than most (MOTIVATION DOES THAT). It's comforting and easy to stay in the same frame of mind that you are in. People develop ways to deal with life and changing them requires motivation and effort. They tell themselves they can't do something so that if they should try and fail they have an excuse (Oh well it was impossible anyway). Anyway I suffered from extreme shyness and learned to socialize well enough. I am still the same shy guy underneath it all. Everyone is smart enough to fool themselves.

[Polaris]

That's right...

Having a bigger package beats intelligence any day of the week!

Some of us just call it a bonus. :D

[El Greco]

People make excuses for not doing stuff. If they can get past their own excuses then maybe they can learn. Sure it's genetic. That's a real good excuse. Truth is you may be genetically predisposed to being an introvert but not hardwired. Genetics may keep you from being better than the best but not from being better than most (MOTIVATION DOES THAT).

One can of course learn to socialize very well, but I believe that without the talent his skills won't make the difference. This is something that has to come from inside. I have a friend who is extremely adept at this and I have been watching his "motivation": When he is alone, even for a few hours, he gets almost depressive. Even if he's been out with people all day, he can't stay alone for the night. He wants always to be around people. When he is forced to be alone he will be talking on the phone all the time. You can't fake that and you can't force yourself to long for company. It's not a matter of saying the right words or learning some social codes. To really shine in that area you have to be genuinely interested in people.

[Tricky]

That's right...

Having a bigger package beats intelligence any day of the week!
Some of us just call it a bonus. :D
Ah. I see you've studied Latin.

[Dogdoctor]

One can of course learn to socialize very well, but I believe that without the talent his skills won't make the difference. This is something that has to come from inside. I have a friend who is extremely adept at this and I have been watching his "motivation": When he is alone, even for a few hours, he gets almost depressive. Even if he's been out with people all day, he can't stay alone for the night. He wants always to be around people. When he is forced to be alone he will be talking on the phone all the time. You can't fake that and you can't force yourself to long for company. It's not a matter of saying the right words or learning some social codes. To really shine in that area you have to be genuinely interested in people.

I don't know about your friend who can't be alone. That sounds like someone who isn't comfortable with themselves. This is how I see it, If you don't want companionship then the intelligent thing to do is to not find companionship. If you want companionship the intelligent thing is to find it.

[Soapy Sam]

Money.
Money and intelligence.





Money, intelligence and a near fanatical devotion to the pope.

[bigred]

But if it was an option, I'd choose extreme social adeptness and adaptability over anything else.
What he said. Most important skill a person can have. If you have this, the world is your oyster.

[Ipecac]

Huge breasts.

Wait, what was the question again?

[EGarrett]

Your question presumes that a single most desirable trait is a valid criterion for selection. Your arena is personal characteristics. No. The question presumes that there are different levels of desirability for traits, and is asking people's opinion as to whether intelligence has the highest level of desirability over all. You're twisting yourself into knots to try and ignore the topic.

False dilemma.This makes as much sense as accusing a person asking whether voters would choose Hillary or Obama of creating a false dilemma. For the purposes of this thread, I'm defining a certain question and asking how people think it would be generally answered. Again, you're going out of your way to try and be negative and avoid the topic, when in fact you have no basis whatsoever to do so.

No matter, I've offered an input to your topic. Nothing more to add.

Enjoy.

DRYou ignored the topic, attempted to turn it into a vague attack on the original post. The only thing correct you said is that you have nothing to add.

[Polaris]

Ah. I see you've studied Latin.

(Insert Laughing Dog smiley that I don't know how to link to here)

Huge breasts.

Wait, what was the question again?

Doesn't matter, pardner. That answer is correct.

[AliasN]

...good looks can be created by exercise, dress, self-confidence and plastic surgery.
I disagree. I give you Tori Spelling as an example. You can't always cure ugly. *shudder*

Being good looking definitely increases your chances of getting a job, getting friends, having people offer you help that they wouldn't necessarily offer others, getting access to special places and opportunities (I hang around with some hot women, I know of what I speak), etc.

But I'll agree that being attractive isn't the be-all and end-all. If you haven't got the intellectual goods once you get the job (depending on what it is, obviously) you still won't get far. But being good looking gets you in the door.

If you haven't seen evidence of this in your life, you don't live in the same world I do.

[rjh01]

AliasN,
I take it you agree that what you have written is true for both women and men?

[AkuManiMani]

When it comes to the various desirable traits that one could choose for themselves, such as good-looks, athleticism, and intelligence...do you think most people would choose great intelligence? The "impossibly beautiful woman" and the legendary athlete or warrior are pretty mythologized, but I think the idea of being a "genius" seems to generate the most discussion and cause the most controversy among people. After all, a lot more people know and talk about Mozart than Jim Thorpe or Marilyn Monroe.

I think high intelligence is more often equated with the "evil genius" archetype ;)

[LostAngeles]

When it comes to the various desirable traits that one could choose for themselves, such as good-looks, athleticism, and intelligence...do you think most people would choose great intelligence? The "impossibly beautiful woman" and the legendary athlete or warrior are pretty mythologized, but I think the idea of being a "genius" seems to generate the most discussion and cause the most controversy among people. After all, a lot more people know and talk about Mozart than Jim Thorpe or Marilyn Monroe.

What do you think? Given the choice between being an incredible athlete with average looks and brains, incredibly beautiful with average physical and intellectual traits, or a genius with average looks and athleticism, do you believe most people would take the last one?

(note also: this is a trait for a person to have in themselves, not one they want in others. I think physical beauty is probably number one in that category)

Ever been chatted up by a dumbass?

[Wildy]

Well let's see.

I am apparently intelligent.
If intelligence is the most desirable trait I should be beating women away from me with a stick.
That isn't happening.
Therefore intelligence is not the most desirable trait.

[Polaris]

Well let's see.

I am apparently intelligent.
If intelligence is the most desirable trait I should be beating women away from me with a stick.
That isn't happening.
Therefore intelligence is not the most desirable trait.

Confidence dude, confidence (not to be confused with arrogance). That's where it's at. It can't be taught, but it can be learned.

But are you talking about attracting a woman or keeping her around? For the latter intelligence also comes in worse than first place. Kindness (not to be confused with weakness) and a sense of humor trump intelligence.

If intelligence was key then there would be no Revenge of the Nerds movies or Mystery Method.

I don't have a most desirable trait, but a three-way tie. Intelligence is one of them, equal with beauty and emotional maturity.

[Fnord]

Is intelligence the most desirable personal trait?

Not in my opinion, which is that the most desirable personal traits are:

Faithfulness: Commitment without compromise.

Gentleness: Consideration towards others in the context of their needs.

Goodness: Reverence for life, and its growth in wholeness and wellness.

Joy: Happiness that is derived from unconditional service to others.

Kindness: Unconditional service to others.

Love: Selfless loyalty and concern for the well-being of others.

Patience (Dictionary definition): (1) The ability to endure waiting, delay, or provocation without becoming annoyed or upset; or (2) to persevere calmly when faced with difficulties.

Peace: Serenity that is derived from a lack of anxiety and worry.

Self-control (or “Temperance”): Moderation or restraint in behavior and expression.

Against these, there can be no just law.

[AliasN]

AliasN,
I take it you agree that what you have written is true for both women and men?

Sure do. (I only mentioned my friends because it's the anecdotal experience that sprang to mind most readily.) But I have seen it in action with males, too. My boyfriend is a cutie, and he generally has salespeople and waitstaff falling all over him whenever we go out.

I don't think it's always on a conscious level, though. I just think humans like to look at and be around attractive humans. I remember watching a documentary once talking about symmetrical features being a subconscious evolutionary tell for good health. IIRC, the theory goes, the more symmetrical the features, the better the genes must be, the more desirable that person is as a partner.

And Polaris is right about confidence. If you've subconsciously been deferred to your whole life, you should become more confident as a by-product. I think that's why a lot of good looking people also have good social skills. That's why if a guy who looks like Steve Buscemi makes a lame joke you might do the pity 'heheh", but if a guy who looks like Ryan Reynolds makes the same lame joke you giggle and blush, and you might even add an "oh, you!" *ahem, I've NEVER done this*

All that said, I don't think physical beauty is the most desirable personal trait in a mate. There are many more (other people have said it better), but I do think, for better or worse, it's what gets some people in the door.

[Wildy]

Confidence dude, confidence (not to be confused with arrogance). That's where it's at. It can't be taught, but it can be learned.

But are you talking about attracting a woman or keeping her around? For the latter intelligence also comes in worse than first place. Kindness (not to be confused with weakness) and a sense of humor trump intelligence.

If intelligence was key then there would be no Revenge of the Nerds movies or Mystery Method.

I don't have a most desirable trait, but a three-way tie. Intelligence is one of them, equal with beauty and emotional maturity.

That's the problem with the "humor" (whatever that is) forum, you just get used to your responses being implied jokes...

[Puppycow]

If 'intelligence' includes social intelligence and emotional intelligence, then I think intelligence is the most desireable trait. I wouldn't want to be a 'tortured genius' or somebody with say extreme math skills but socially inept or neurotic. I certainly wouldn't want to be like Bobby Fischer.

[Pardalis]

Intelligence and humor definitely. Not one without the other though.