D.O. I went to an emergency room...(US)

[XBoxWarrior]

Ok, so last Monday, I had to go to the ER, (emergency room) of our newly opened Hospital. I was diagnosed with "Epiditimitis" (add that word to the spell-check?)

The Doctor that gave me the diagnosis was proudly wearing a badge that said D.O., I assumed that meant Doctor of Oncology, or Doctor of Orthopedics, (that bothered me at the time).

She gave me a prescription to have an Ultra-Sound, for which the big hospital in the city denied, saying, "she wasn't a recognized doctor".

I have now Googled the "D.O." label, and found her to be a doctor of Osteopathy, where they believe the body will "Heal thy Self"?

Well now, I owe $750 us for this visit, and I am not better, and any real hospital will not recognize her creditials.......they did however fill her prescriptions at the Wal-Mart. (she had a DEA number)

Can anyone here explain the problem with her credentials? is she a Doctor? or not?

Is the Doctor of Osteopathy not recognized as a "real" Doctor?

I may not reply quickly, as I am in pain, and utilizing the Hydrocodone.......

p.s. it sucks to live in the U.S., and not have Health Care

[Lisa Simpson]

A D.O. in the US is just about the same as an M.D.

From Wiki:

Today, osteopathic medicine is "no longer considered alternative medicine" and the training of osteopathic physicians is "virtually identical" to that of M.D. physicians. Osteopathic physicians use all conventional methods of diagnosis and treatment but are trained to place additional emphasis on the achievement of normal body mechanics as central to maintaining good health

I've never noticed a difference in treatment between an MD or a DO. YMMV.

[XBoxWarrior]

Ok, I get that, and thank you....."Lisa"

But why won't the Big Hospital in the City, where I can get "kinda free" health care recognize her as being a "Doctor"?

They are insisting that I be diagnosed by a "real" Doctor to get my ultra-sound. Is it just a scam for me to jump thru their ER?

I am so confused by the process?

[Boo]

The practice I work for has both DO's and MD's. We have never had a problem with any of the hospitals accepting his orders. You should try another facility for the ultrasound as the problem is more likely with the hospital and not the ER Doc and her orders.



Boo

[Dymanic]

Well now, I owe $750 us for this visit, and I am not betterThis may be one of the rare instances in which an anecdote may help. I've had recurrent bouts with epididymitis myself over the last decade or so. We knock it down with antibiotics, it goes away for a while, it comes back. I also developed a couple of hernias somewhere along the way; both an umbilical and an inguinal. I finally accepted that surgery was the only real option for that, and during a pre-op consult with the surgeon, the epididymitis issue came up. His opinion concurred with that of the urologist: just like with the hernias, the only real treatment option is surgery. The surgeon wanted a decision from me, because it could influence the method he would use during the hernia repair. Looking back, it's hard to believe that I even needed to think it over. It's amazing how much less a thing like that will bother you once they start talking about removing a testicle.

I see a D.O., by the way. They recieve even more training than does a regular M.D. My observation is the same as Lisa Simpson's; I've never noticed any difference between the treatment I recieve from mine and what I would expect from any other doctor. As far as I know, D.O.s are fully licensed to practice medicine in the US., and I can't think of any explanation for the "Big Hospital in the City" refusing the order, other than that it appears that someone is confused (though it might be worth noting that diagnosing epididymitis is pretty straightforward, and an ultrasound might be considered overkill).

[bluecollarscientist]

The DO who saw you in the ER is going to have a state medical license, so the rejection of the ultrasound orders you are getting isn't based on her not being a "real" doctor. One thing I would do right away is call up the doctor that saw you in the ER and tell her that the big hospital is saying she isn't a real doctor. She's going to want to know about this and will have professional channels for dealing with it.

As for the big hospital's denial, I'd hypothesize (a) they are highly confused and being idiots as a result, (b) there is a bureaucratic reason - perhaps the new ER isn't recognized by the big hospital's computer system yet, or something like that, or (c) there is a monopolistic reason - only doctors practicing at or set up with that hospital can write orders for ultrasound that will be done at that hospital.

Do some digging on this and find out the real reason. Start by calling the doctor who saw you in the ER. Seriously. Then start questioning whoever you are talking to at the big hospital, starting with: What kind of a doctor is a DO? And: Does a DO have a medical license?

[The Painter]

What causes epididymitis?

The causes of epididymitis vary depending on your age and behavior. In children it is most commonly associated with urinary tract infections. In young, sexually active men it is often associated with sexually transmitted disease, and in older men with enlargement of the prostate gland.

So, what disease did you contract that has lead to this testicular condition??? Or is your prostate the size of a cantaloupe?

[dakotajudo]

She gave me a prescription to have an Ultra-Sound, for which the big hospital in the city denied, saying, "she wasn't a recognized doctor".

You might want to clarify this - is she not recognized as a doctor, or a doctor not recognized by that hospital.

This past summer, my sister had a medical emergency. She had been treated as an outpatient at a hospital about an hour from here, and had come back home. She developed complications later in the evening.

I called the hospital in town, and asked if they could see her in the emergency room at home, or if we should just take her to where she had the out-patient procedure.

The reply was, to the effect that while they might be able to see her, her doctor (the one from an hour away who did the outpatient work) did not have privileges to request any tests, so they would probably just pack her up and send her down there - so we drove her the hour the the other hospital.

Two different hospital systems and one doctor was not recognized by the other system. Not a medical degree issue, it was a business issue.

[The Man]

A D.O. in the US is just about the same as an M.D.

From Wiki:



I've never noticed a difference in treatment between an MD or a DO. YMMV.


Thanks for the clarification, Lisa, when I first read “Doctor of Osteopathy” I though it might be someone who treated diseases in Ostriches (or would that be Doctor of Ostriopathy). “Physician heal thyself” now becomes “patient heal thyself” but with the caveat “do you have medical issuance or a major credit card”. Just kidding of course and I will defer to those out in the medical trenches as to the validity of diagnoses or treatments. Although, after having looked up "Epiditimitis" I can only say “Ouch”.

On a more serious note, XBoxWarrior, please see if the ER or prescribing Physician has any affiliation with any particular ultrasound capable facility. You may have to go out of your way, but it may reduce your costs. Having been to the ER already and still suffering, a detailed examination is paramount. Was the ER in the newly opened hospital the same place as the big hospital in the city that you went to for the ultrasound examination? If so, I can not understand the discrepancy. If not, then when will the new hospital have ultrasound capability (hopefully soon if not already)? Check for any free clinics in your area with ultrasound capability, the wait may be long but you need its benefit.

[Dr. Imago]

(a) they are highly confused and being idiots as a result,

Highly unlikely.

(b) there is a bureaucratic reason - perhaps the new ER isn't recognized by the big hospital's computer system yet, or something like that, or...

This sounds like the most logical explanation to me.

(c) there is a monopolistic reason - only doctors practicing at or set up with that hospital can write orders for ultrasound that will be done at that hospital.

Highly unlikely and highly illegal.

-Dr. Imago

[balrog666]

Thanks for the clarification, Lisa, when I first read “Doctor of Osteopathy” I though it might be someone who treated diseases in Ostriches (or would that be Doctor of Ostriopathy). “Physician heal thyself” now becomes “patient heal thyself” but with the caveat “do you have medical issuance or a major credit card”. Just kidding of course and I will defer to those out in the medical trenches as to the validity of diagnoses or treatments. Although, after having looked up "Epiditimitis" I can only say “Ouch”.

On a more serious note, XBoxWarrior, please see if the ER or prescribing Physician has any affiliation with any particular ultrasound capable facility. You may have to go out of your way, but it may reduce your costs. Having been to the ER already and still suffering, a detailed examination is paramount. Was the ER in the newly opened hospital the same place as the big hospital in the city that you went to for the ultrasound examination? If so, I can not understand the discrepancy. If not, then when will the new hospital have ultrasound capability (hopefully soon if not already)? Check for any free clinics in your area with ultrasound capability, the wait may be long but you need its benefit.


It's been a meaningless distinction for decades. Now it's mostly historical -- did you go to a College of Human Medicine (MD) or a College of Osteopathy (and they sometimes share faculty?!).

[Dr. Imago]

I see a D.O., by the way. They recieve even more training than does a regular M.D.

Ummm... let me (slightly) correct that statement.

They receive additional training in OMM, which has not always been shown to be a rigorously proven medical treatment. In my opinion, it is akin to 'beefed up' Chiropractic in many cases. And, it is also subject to such silliness as Craniosacral Therapy, which (again in my opinion) diminishes the legitimacy of the well-established and helpful treatments.

I practice anesthesiology with many D.O.-trained physician anesthesiologists. We even have D.O. trained surgeons performing all manner of operations in our hospital. None of them uses the OMM modality in their practice. In fact, the majority of (not all) osteopathic graduates go that route because they were unable to secure an acceptance in a traditional, more competitive U.S. medical school. Very few these days have any intention of utilizing or incorporating OMM in their day-to-day practice.

No flame wars, please. This is my professional impression having worked with a multitude of D.O. graduates, the vast majority of whom are certainly on-par with their M.D. colleagues. The practice of medicine is a highly individualized pursuit, and the capabilities of the practitioner is often ultimately independent of the letters attached to his/her name or the school he/she attended.

-Dr. Imago

[XBoxWarrior]

Thanks for all the replies, most informative!

So, what disease did you contract that has lead to this testicular condition??? Or is your prostate the size of a cantaloupe?

I just awoke from a blissful nap......so I'll begin here.

I was really hoping it was an STD, actually I was hoping for the chlamydia, (but all tests were negative)... as that would have been a straight forward diagnosis. I have learned that if it is actually Epididmitiis, the causes are numerous......I won't post a link, but WebMD has the facts.

The D.O. in the ER chose not to do a prostrate exam, so I am still wondering about that? :confused:

As far as the D.O./M.D. debate goes I feel better after reading the posts here. I live way up in the mountains of rural Colorado, so there aren't any people round here to chat with about this.

Again Thanks for all your sincere replies.

[TsarBomba]

Ummm... let me (slightly) correct that statement.

They receive additional training in OMM, which has not always been shown to be a rigorously proven medical treatment. In my opinion, it is akin to 'beefed up' Chiropractic in many cases. And, it is also subject to such silliness as Craniosacral Therapy, which (again in my opinion) diminishes the legitimacy of the well-established and helpful treatments.


I went to an ER a couple of years ago for a dog bite in a very painful and private location (I will say no more on that matter). The ER doc wore a badge identifying him as a D.O. As he injected me with a local anesthetic and stitched me up (this being one spot where they do want to stitch up dog bites), I asked him whether he had the opportunity to do an osteopathic manipulation as part of his medical practice. Osteopathic manipulation would be the "beefed up Chiropractic" stuff that Mr. Imago is referring to. He chuckled and said "only on a relative, when they ask." It had no part in his practice, and there was no difference in the care I received than there would have been had I been seen by an M.D.

[XBoxWarrior]

Do some digging on this and find out the real reason. Start by calling the doctor who saw you in the ER. Seriously.

Funny thing is.......I tried calling the D.O. who saw me in the ER last night. They all but accused me of stalking her, and hung up on me. I am serious!

I called in the afternoon, and was told she would be in at 7pm, so I called at 7:30 pm and was told that they were not allowed to give out that kind of information, (when she would be working) and was politely put on hold, and then the dial tone came.

Then start questioning whoever you are talking to at the big hospital, starting with: What kind of a doctor is a DO? And: Does a DO have a medical license?

I was told this evening that the D.O. in question (from the big hospital phone answerer) has not "applied" yet for "recognition" from Memorial Hospital......Memorial Hospital is the only one in the city that will afford care for the un-insured.

I believe that tomarow I will just go to the Big Hospital and start all over, credit......schmedit. The pain is NOT going away, and I will be out of Hydrocodone soon....:confused:

I wish I was still living in Manhattan, where you could just go down to the east village and get some pain meds...grey market rules.

[The Man]

It's been a meaningless distinction for decades. Now it's mostly historical -- did you go to a College of Human Medicine (MD) or a College of Osteopathy (and they sometimes share faculty?!).

Thanks, barlog666, In all honesty I was completely unfamiliar with the D.O. accreditation. I don't go to the Doctor much "patient heal thyself" usually works for me. I apologize to anyone, especially D.O. or M.D., that might have taken offense.

[XBoxWarrior]

This may be one of the rare instances in which an anecdote may help. I've had recurrent bouts with epididymitis myself over the last decade or so. We knock it down with antibiotics, it goes away for a while, it comes back. I also developed a couple of hernias somewhere along the way; both an umbilical and an inguinal. I finally accepted that surgery was the only real option for that, and during a pre-op consult with the surgeon, the epididymitis issue came up. His opinion concurred with that of the urologist: just like with the hernias, the only real treatment option is surgery. The surgeon wanted a decision from me, because it could influence the method he would use during the hernia repair. Looking back, it's hard to believe that I even needed to think it over. It's amazing how much less a thing like that will bother you once they start talking about removing a testicle.

I am in so much pain, that removing the left twin has been in my head for days. I am in no way attached to a part of my body that causes me this much pain. I have been blind in my left eye for 28 years, I was shot in that one.

I also drive a semi-truck for work up in the mountains, and that is NOT helping the situation.

and I can't think of any explanation for the "Big Hospital in the City" refusing the order, other than that it appears that someone is confused (though it might be worth noting that diagnosing epididymitis is pretty straightforward, and an ultrasound might be considered overkill).

The D.O. was ordering the US (ultra sound) for a possible tumor, although neither she, nor I can feel one. I as stated in another reply, she didn't do the prostrate exam, and she was positive of her Epiditimitis (my new word of the week) diagnosis, until the UA came back negative for STD's.......

Again thanks for all the help!

[Skibum]

I believe that tomarow I will just go to the Big Hospital and start all over, credit......schmedit.


You would probably be better served by going to see a urologist rather than rely on an ER where you will pay a very hefty premium to, more than likely, be referred to one anyway.

[fls]

Doctors do not automatically have privileges at every hospital or facility in a state. You have to apply for them and you may not be able to use the services (such as ordering laboratory/diagnostic tests) at a facility unless you have privileges. It sounds like that was the situation.

Linda

[skeptigirl]

....
Two different hospital systems and one doctor was not recognized by the other system. Not a medical degree issue, it was a business issue.You have to have admitting privileges in any accredited hospital you write orders on patients in. I have privileges in one hospital. It is a formal procedure. And the paperwork required is part of the hospital's accreditation. So it includes license, malpractice, and certain continuing education that must be kept current.

I'm guessing the DO didn't have admitting privileges if the tests are run by the hospital lab. If it is an outpatient lab then whoever it is that reimburses that hospital for your "sort of free" care may have the restrictions on who is allowed to write orders.

I think you may have interpreted "not recognized" as meaning a different reason than they were saying. But that's just a guess.

And Linda I see beat me to it, but I'm always glad when we agree.

[Deetee]

Excuse my bewilderment from the other side of the pond..... A "doctor in osteopathy" is equivalent to an MD????!!
So they do the same undergrad course in med school, same internship etc??
Their degree is acknowledged to be equivalent?
They have the same treatment/prescribing rights, can work in the same type of medical facility?

[fls]

Excuse my bewilderment from the other side of the pond..... A "doctor in osteopathy" is equivalent to an MD????!!
So they do the same undergrad course in med school, same internship etc??
Their degree is acknowledged to be equivalent?
They have the same treatment/prescribing rights, can work in the same type of medical facility?

Yes.

I realize that this is different in other countries (Canada, for example, does not have an equivalent DO program). But in the US they take the same courses in undergrad and med school (with extra emphasis in the areas Dr. Imago described) and participate in medical internships and residencies. They fall under the same licensing requirements as MD's.

Linda

[Physiotherapist]

In Canada osteopathy courses are generally 5 years long and are equivalent to that of the UK training in osteopathy.

DO's and MD's are the same in the US, in fact, the GMC in the UK will consider applications from DO's to be able to practice in the UK.

This is the only country in the world as far as I know where DO's and MD's are on an equal footing.