Does anyone know how to get Sat Nav maps changed?

[tkingdoll]

In the nearly four years that we've lived at this address, we've given up trying to get any sort of takeaway food delivered, because every driver goes to the block of apartments next door instead of ours. This isn't a problem for parcels or groceries, as they can be late with no ill-effects, but no-one likes a lukewarm pizza.

It's been the source of constant frustration, compounded by the fact that we live in Haydown Court on Sandown Road, and the block that they invariably go to instead is called Sandown Court*. It's a bit confusing, but not THAT confusing considering the names of the blocks are in big letters on the buildings themselves and on signs at the entrance. How hard is it to read before you buzz?

Anyhoo, I think today I got to the bottom of the Mystery of the Stupid Drivers. I had a call from the delivery driver for my groceries. He was, predictably, buzzing at number 5 Sandown Court, instead of my block. I informed him he was at the wrong place and he said that his Sat Nav was saying that he was in the right place. Given that his Sat Nav is programmed with UK postcodes, and that our postcode is different from Sandown Court's, that must mean the Sat Nav is wrong.

Either that or the Sat Nav only pretends to go to postcodes when it's actually going to the nearest postal district, and every delivery driver in the world just assumes that the first block of apartments on the road is the right one. Either way, it's slightly annoying that people trust their Sat Nav more than their own eyes.

Given that this happens every time, if it is the Sat Nav, then we can assume that they're all using the same mapping database. I've Googled but found nothing - anyone know how to get something on that database amended?**


*Names of blocks and road may have been changed to confound the malicious.

** In the absence of an answer, I'm happy for this thread to act as a 'Sat Nav anecdote' repository.

[Cuddles]

No idea I'm afraid. I've only had a satnav since Christmas, and I've already found it to be horribly wrong twice, although admittedly once was because they had actually moved the roads. Just look on the bright side, it could be worse (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_east/7257555.stm).

[Soapy Sam]

Can I suggest you go to the entrance of Sandown Court and erect a notice saying "Anyone delivering pizza to tkingdoll, cross the street behind you."

Not that delivery people can read. On my letterbox is a sign saying "Please-No advertising flyers or free newspapers".
Guess what I get every other day?

Have you tried informing them when you call in the order that you have this problem?
Have you asked your neighbours if they have trouble? I mean it could just be that god hates you.

[zooterkin]

Not the answer, but it may start you off, my other half who knows a little about SatNav tells me that the main providers of SatNav data are Navteq (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navteq)and Tele Atlas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele_Atlas). TomTom now own Tele Atlas, and Nokia own Navteq; I'd guess most SatNavs in the UK are TomTom based, so I'd start with TomTom and/or Tele Atlas.

ETA: What about online map services, such as multimap (http://www.multimap.co.uk)or mapquest (http://www.mapquest.co.uk)? Do they work? I'm just wondering how general a problem it is, or if it might be specific to one data provider.

[tkingdoll]

Have you tried informing them when you call in the order that you have this problem?


Oh yes. You know "pulling teeth"? Like that, but with chicken fried rice. The person on the phone, who doesn't care enough to write down or relay any specific delivery instructions, is not the same person who delivers, so it doesn't matter if I tell them my apartment is the one with the red lights and 'free hookers and blow' sign. The delivery guy also doesn't care, but is obliged to at least get rid of the food before going home and hope springs eternal for a tip.

Have you asked your neighbours if they have trouble? I mean it could just be that god hates you.

My sister lives in the same block and they have the same problem. It could be a King Sister exclusive issue I suppose, but it's unlikely. And you almost never hear evening deliveries for any of the other apartments so I suspect everyone has given up.

Some small progress, of sorts. I actually have Sat Nav on my PDA, so I put my own postcode into it. I am working from home today so was in an ideal position to see how close it was. I didn't even get that far, though. I put in the postcode and it gave me a list of location options that match that postcode...

Sandown Court, or nothing.

So that's the problem. We don't exist. We're like the Atlantis of Birmingham.

[Soapy Sam]

You mean... (sfx-eldritch chord)...the Birmingham Triangle?????

There are rumours of a Dutch Flower truck that has been orbiting spaghetti junction since the 1960s...

[Rasmus]

Either way, it's slightly annoying that people trust their Sat Nav more than their own eyes.

It's the most rational thing to do, if I compare my track-record to that of my GPS ...

[Darat]

Teek - do you give them the right flat number..... :duck: ?

Slightly more pertinent have you checked the OS site to see if they have your block corrected identified? If so then its a matter of finding out who is the map supplier for your PDA, getting them to acknowledged the problem and then waiting 10 to 15 years for the all the maps to be updated.

If I recall correctly yours isn't a new build is it? If so it is strange that you don't exist, has the council changed the names recently (say 5 years or so)? Those types of changes can take a while to filter out into the mapping world.

Mind you I think you are lucky that they even accept your order - when we first moved here quite a few people using older postcode look-ups wouldn't even accept the address without a house number and several argued that we must have a house number, the conversations went like:

Can I have your postcode?
Give them the postcode.
Can I have your house number?
Don't have one just a name
You must have a number the post office uses.
No it was given a name when it was built and that's all there is
No - you see all houses have to have a number
Well we don't - can't you just put the address on and leave it to the delivery driver?
No - we can't do that we have to fill in a number.

:mad:

Thankfully all the latest look-up databases do now recognise house names!

[Soapy Sam]

Recent conversation in shop.
Shop assistant: What's your postcode?
SS. Why do you need that?
SA. For the guarantee.
SS What guarantee?
SA. Eh- we need it for the database.
SS. But I don't. You want to sell me this , or not?
SA. I can't put it through without a postcode, so I can't give you a receipt. That's your guarantee.
SS. Fair enough. SW1A 2AA
SA. (Types into computer). That's not a local postcode.
SS. You can't print a receipt for Gordon Brown?
SA. (Now grinning) I don't know, just a minute.... (Hits various buttons. Receipt prints). There you go.
SS. Thank you. (Throws receipt in waste basket and proceeds on legitimate business).

[tkingdoll]

Teek - do you give them the right flat number..... :duck: ?

Slightly more pertinent have you checked the OS site to see if they have your block corrected identified? If so then its a matter of finding out who is the map supplier for your PDA, getting them to acknowledged the problem and then waiting 10 to 15 years for the all the maps to be updated.

If I recall correctly yours isn't a new build is it? If so it is strange that you don't exist, has the council changed the names recently (say 5 years or so)? Those types of changes can take a while to filter out into the mapping world.

Mind you I think you are lucky that they even accept your order - when we first moved here quite a few people using older postcode look-ups wouldn't even accept the address without a house number and several argued that we must have a house number, the conversations went like:

Can I have your postcode?
Give them the postcode.
Can I have your house number?
Don't have one just a name
You must have a number the post office uses.
No it was given a name when it was built and that's all there is
No - you see all houses have to have a number
Well we don't - can't you just put the address on and leave it to the delivery driver?
No - we can't do that we have to fill in a number.

:mad:

Thankfully all the latest look-up databases do now recognise house names!

I knew you'd bring up the number thing. You get your own flat number wrong one time, and it haunts you forever. What do you mean, twice?

These apartments were built in the 1960s. Funnily enough, when we bought it and called the council tax people to tell them we were the new owners, they couldn't find the address on their database.

Also, and I suspect this is the issue confusing the sat nav people, I'm pretty sure that somewhere (land registry, maybe?), this entire development is still registered as its old address. There used to be a huge mansion here in the 50s, and the owner's small son drowned in the swimming pool (right about where our rockery is now). The owner was distraught with grief and had the entire house demolished (according to my nan, who lives over the road, anyway). And they built these flats on the land, but the old address is still active. I know it is because it's on some of the paperwork from when we bought it. It's just one number and the road name. But that number didn't come up as an option on my sat nav. It's all very confusing and stupid.

[Rasmus]

It won't help you with your deliveries - but for using your own GPS you could simply use coordinates rather than an address. I've done that once or twice and it can be real helpful.

[richardm]

Mind you I think you are lucky that they even accept your order - when we first moved here quite a few people using older postcode look-ups wouldn't even accept the address without a house number.

We ran into that problem as well, compounded by the fact that we don't have a street name either. This led to some interesting conversations with highly suspicious people in shops who were convinced that I was up to something but couldn't work out what it was other than apparently trying to lose deliveries.

[PogoPedant]

A friend of mine took the time to really explore his own neighbourhood using, I think, TeleAtlas's maps. In the one square kilometer around his house, he found something like 18 factual errors before he gave up in disgust. The errors were of the types public roads not drawn in, private and closed roads drawn as public roads, street names wrong, parking lots drawn as roads (!), a dirt track for bicycles drawn as a road.

Keeping geographic databases up to date is an enormous task and no single commercial provider will be able to stay on top of it. They will deliver maps that are good enough for many enough to remain commercially viable, but they will never be accurate everywhere. If you're interested in getting accurate (and free) maps, check out http://wiki.openstreetmap.org . If they don't have a good map of your area, you can draw your own.

[Ivor the Engineer]

Here's a (slight) mapping error I noticed when I lived in Haworth, West Yorkshire:

http://www.multimap.com/maps/#t=l&map=53.82828,-1.94454|18|32&loc=GB:53.37311:-1.59442

Look at the centre of the map, where Brow Road crosses Hebden Road, becoming Brow Top Road. The satellite picture clearly shows this is straight on, but every map I've seen shows it as a right then left turn (traveling from Haworth toward Bradford).

I wonder what a sat. nav would instruct a driver to do at this junction?

[richardm]

Mine would probably give the instruction "turn right, then left", leaving me to figure out exactly what it meant. (Which would probably leave me heading South along Hebden Road swearing and trying to find somewhere to turn around, because although I try to glance at the display to see the route layout it's showing me I don't always manage this if the road is busy).

I used to worry about this sort of thing until I realised that if I was trying to follow a paper map I'd have the same problem and it never bothered me then. Ditto with maps going out of date; I used to buy a new road atlas very rarely. Mind you, when I did buy one it would cost me a fiver; now I'm looking at a bill for £137 if I want to update my data DVD.

[DrDave]

After driving through Sheffield in a convoy with 4 friends with different sat navs - none of which had accurate maps of the city by any stretch of the imagination I have looked into this - from the Road Angel FAQ (http://www.roadangel.co.uk/support/navigator/faqs.html#1)

It seems like one company - NAVTECH - have the maps which Sat Navs take the info from.

The whole process of NAVTEQ being updated by local councils and road agencies, to sending out a scout party to re-drive the local area, incorporate this into their mapping data and then for us to make it available to you the customer, can sometimes take from 6 months to 18 months depending on how early NAVTEQ have been notified of road changes

and If you do notice a road that is not in the maps or an error with the information, you can report this directly to NAVTEQ via their website; www.navteq.com

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

Dave

[tkingdoll]

Thanks!

[zooterkin]

It seems like one company - NAVTECH - have the maps which Sat Navs take the info from.


Well, as I posted above, it's actually 2 companies, and NAVTEQ is one of them. I didn't say explicitly, but I would agree that contacting them directly would be the best bet.

[CFLarsen]

...maybe it's easier to learn how to cook? :)

[Worm]

For real Postcode geo-location fun, try dealing with electricity supply companies.

Want to report a fault on an electricity supply? They want a postcode. not got one, don't know it, don't care etc. - they still want a postcode.

My wife is an electrical engineer specialising in street lighting. Hours of fun phoning up to report faults and trying to explain that, much as you might expect, street lights tend not to have a postcode.

[tkingdoll]

...maybe it's easier to learn how to cook? :)

!!

My food blog was on TV!!!


:mad:

[CFLarsen]

!!

My food blog was on TV!!!


:mad:

Evidence? ;)

Seriously, if you cook, why do you order out? I always keep a stash of pre-cooked meals ready for heating for whenever it is too late or I'm too tired to cook. I just make a double portion, and freeze the rest. Easy, cheaper and tastes a lot better.

Thank the FSM for the freezer!

[TjW]

The people I would be most concerned about being able to find my house would be the local fire department.

[marting]

I've somewhat similar problems. The town I live in doesn't deliver mail to your door so, in lieu of delivery, the post office provides boxes for everyone. They are located on the post office premises but are accessable 24hrs. A side effect is that street addresses, which are used for FedEx (who delivers!) and such, are not linked in databases to the postal ZIP code so when ordering things over the web, or phone, one often gets a mismatch that prevents entering the order. Also, some GPS (nav-sat) products (the Mio for one) can't locate it because it doesn't exist in the mail delivery ZIP code.

What's worse is that mail sent to one's street address is sent back unless the POBox number is included. They have no way to look up the POBox from the street address.

Topping it off, the street I live on is incorrectly spelled on nearly all the data bases.

Oddly, as screwed up as my own location is, everywhere else I go typically has excellent precision and accuracy.

[marting]

Here's a (slight) mapping error I noticed when I lived in Haworth, West Yorkshire:

http://www.multimap.com/maps/#t=l&map=53.82828,-1.94454|18|32&loc=GB:53.37311:-1.59442

Look at the centre of the map, where Brow Road crosses Hebden Road, becoming Brow Top Road. The satellite picture clearly shows this is straight on, but every map I've seen shows it as a right then left turn (traveling from Haworth toward Bradford).

I wonder what a sat. nav would instruct a driver to do at this junction?

For what it's worth, my NUVI 670 shows this intersection correctly.

[DRBUZZ0]

There are GPS Jammers. They're illegal in the US and I'd suspect in the UK as well, but you can still order them from places in Hong Kong and such. If you get a high powered one then the nav system they're using won't know where the hell they are and they'll be forced to actually use the directions you give them to find the place

[CFLarsen]

There are GPS Jammers. They're illegal in the US and I'd suspect in the UK as well, but you can still order them from places in Hong Kong and such. If you get a high powered one then the nav system they're using won't know where the hell they are and they'll be forced to actually use the directions you give them to find the place

...to drive you to prison for hindering ambulances and firetrucks to get to their destinations...

Just be sure you love your pizzas enough!

[BillC]

My satnav tries to convince me that an off-road bicycle track near my home is a bona fide road, and has on occasion taken me on a detour through some god-forsaken little hamlets with tiny roads, only to re-emerge back on the major road just a few hundred metres down from the junction it just advised me to turn off at.