Let's hear your tale of woe in this recession!

[Tokenconservative]

I notice that most of those commenting in this section of this forum are pretty certain that the American economy is headed for something like the Great Depression...only worse.

Indeed, I am assured by many in here that we don't have to wait for that...it's here!

But...from reading in here, it seems that everyone commenting is gainfully employed, some in very lucrative areas of the economy such as finance and higher education.

Surely someone in here is living in a tent city or standing--without much hope--on an unemployment line, or waiting by the mailbox for their foodstamps, etc.

I'd like to hear from them, hear their tales of woe.

In the spirit of priming the well, I'll start with my own:

I thought that I'd see about a 15-20% increase in my business last year and instead I saw only about a 12% increase, offset somewhat by the fact that most of that business has come from a more solid client base.

Clearly, I have and am suffering greatly in this time of depression and economic collapse, and I'd like to hear from others similarly crushed and defeated.

Tokie

[fishbob]

I notice that most of those commenting in this section of this forum are pretty certain that the American economy is headed for something like the Great Depression...only worse.

Indeed, I am assured by many in here that we don't have to wait for that...it's here!

But...from reading in here, it seems that everyone commenting is gainfully employed, some in very lucrative areas of the economy such as finance and higher education.

Surely someone in here is living in a tent city or standing--without much hope--on an unemployment line, or waiting by the mailbox for their foodstamps, etc.
I'd like to hear from them, hear their tales of woe.

In the spirit of priming the well, I'll start with my own:

I thought that I'd see about a 15-20% increase in my business last year and instead I saw only about a 12% increase, offset somewhat by the fact that most of that business has come from a more solid client base.

Clearly, I have and am suffering greatly in this time of depression and economic collapse, and I'd like to hear from others similarly crushed and defeated.

Tokie

No computers in tent city, no internet out by the mailbox or in the unemployment line.

[Fnord]

More people are car-pooling, so I have to drive my Prius at less than 70mph in the car-pool lane.

Stupid recession ... stupid car-poolers ...

[Francesca R]

I notice that most of those commenting in this section of this forum are pretty certain that the American economy is headed for something like the Great Depression...only worse.Please identify them by user name. Thanks :)

[rcronk]

I used to be poor. Now I have a good job. I just received an offer for another job at higher pay - they came to me. I was hoping they'd offer me twice as much as I make now but they only offered about 10% more. I refused the offer for other reasons, but I just wish I had more than one good job and just one company chasing after me to employ me. Perhaps if I actually put forth some effort by putting my resume out there, many companies would hunt me down. Darn low unemployment and good job market - it's so annoying.

I heard in the past couple of weeks a report that something like 70+% of people report that their own economical situation is great but they think the nation as a whole is doing poorly. This could be caused by negative (and apparently inaccurate) news reporting. Free press is really good, but where are the checks and balances for them? Maybe it's an enlightened public looking at more than one biased source. Oh well.

[Polaris]

The subprime mortgage disaster ruined my chances to buy my unborn hypothetical children a fleet of gold-plated Ferraris with diamond-encrusted rims. I hope you're satisfied, (insert popular whipping boy here) you made children cry!

Seriously though, it gave the CEO of the helicopter school I was planning to attend an excuse to rob it blind ($50 million) and then file Chapter 7 bankruptcy in an attempt to keep it all, claiming the lack of student loans, and therefore prospective students, forced them to close their doors. They also were vastly overstating the potential job market for pilots, which makes looking for a more reputable school a waste of time. Back to the drawing board for career change, and at a time when hiring stands to slack off considerably, at least for jobs that pay a living wage. That is, if the gloom and doom is true.

[uruk]

I notice that most of those commenting in this section of this forum are pretty certain that the American economy is headed for something like the Great Depression...only worse. Typical political doom-speak. When a Democrat is in the presidency next year (thanks to Bush), the republican will warn the coming great depression at the hands of the Democrats. It's the same ol', same ol'. Democrates bleed us dry with funding social programs, Republicans bleed us dry with military spending. Either way were $%#@*& royaly. I got my bomb shelter stocked.

Indeed, I am assured by many in here that we don't have to wait for that...it's here! You mean I should get in my bomb shelter now! Great !!! Finaly!!!! The next words I type will be from my ultra secure "Depression" bunker. Don't come by looking for handouts I'll shoot on site. Go get your soylent green elsewhere!

But...from reading in here, it seems that everyone commenting is gainfully employed, some in very lucrative areas of the economy such as finance and higher education. It's a good thing I work from home. As long as I got my internet link I'm gainfully employed from my bunker.

Surely someone in here is living in a tent city or standing--without much hope--on an unemployment line, or waiting by the mailbox for their foodstamps, etc.

I'd like to hear from them, hear their tales of woe. Uh... If they are unemployed, homeless and have no money I doubt they would be able to afford a to have an ISP account or go to a starbuck to post on this forum.

In the spirit of priming the well, I'll start with my own:

I thought that I'd see about a 15-20% increase in my business last year and instead I saw only about a 12% increase, offset somewhat by the fact that most of that business has come from a more solid client base.

Clearly, I have and am suffering greatly in this time of depression and economic collapse, and I'd like to hear from others similarly crushed and defeated.

Tokie Not getting obscenely rich...huh? I feel for you buddy. If you ain't got money pouring out your keister you ain't nobody in this country.

I live for the day when I become so rich and famous that it makes the 6:00 news when I get the hershey squirts.

I can just see it now.
"Katie Couric here for the NBC news; Tradgedy in Texas today when socialite Anthony Ethridge was rumored to have suffered severe intestinal cramps. Sadly, it was later revealed by inside sources that Anthony did indeed have Monteczouma's revenge.

Anthony Ethridge was reported to have been found unconscious and mumbling incoherently sitting on his solid gold toilet by his house keeper. " He just kept repeating 'the horror, the horror' over and over again, says a distraught and slightly nausiated Maria Valdez.

"It really stunk up the place" were the words of healing from those close to the eccentric zillionair most known for just having a rediculous amount of money.

Investigators think that the source of the infection was from the local Taco Bell which the nutty money bag was known to frequent. Which brings us to Bob Zimmer's expose' "Taco Bell: The Home of the Cheap Date or The killing fields." Take it away Bob.

[Soapy Sam]

I live in the UK.
I'm paid in dollars.

So, despite not even being allowed to vote in any US election, I am impacted directly by US monetary policy, as are many people around the world a great deal worse off than I am.

Take a look at exchange rates against the dollar since (say) 2000. The dollar used to be a beer token. Now it's a beer mat.

ETA- To ad insult to injury, I'm now expected to help bail out UK banks that decided to invest in dodgy loans to US mortgage applicants.

[Deus Ex Machina]

I think that "recessions" such as this one are the chance for corporations to clear out all the crap they have accumulated over the last few years and that they have not talked about because they were afraid of losing 2 Cents off the share price. So all the bad loans and deals get packaged and shuffled out the door.

[Tokenconservative]

More people are car-pooling, so I have to drive my Prius at less than 70mph in the car-pool lane.

Stupid recession ... stupid car-poolers ...

So YOU'RE that guy...Listen, the next time you see my Hummer bearing down on you like that...get the hell out of the way!

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

I used to be poor. Now

I heard in the past couple of weeks a report that something like 70+% of people report that their own economical situation is great but they think the nation as a whole is doing poorly. This could be caused by negative (and apparently inaccurate) news reporting. Free press is really good, but where are the checks and balances for them? Maybe it's an enlightened public looking at more than one biased source. Oh well.

Gee...ya think!?

And um...is it or is it not (the past couple or 3 years) an election year?

And which party can generally count on more votes in a "down" economy than in an up economy...

Hmm...hard to puzzle this 'un out, huh?

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

The subprime mortgage disaster ruined my chances to buy my unborn hypothetical children a fleet of gold-plated Ferraris with diamond-encrusted rims. I hope you're satisfied, (insert popular whipping boy here) you made children cry!

Seriously though, it gave the CEO of the helicopter school I was planning to attend an excuse to rob it blind ($50 million) and then file Chapter 7 bankruptcy in an attempt to keep it all, claiming the lack of student loans, and therefore prospective students, forced them to close their doors. They also were vastly overstating the potential job market for pilots, which makes looking for a more reputable school a waste of time. Back to the drawing board for career change, and at a time when hiring stands to slack off considerably, at least for jobs that pay a living wage. That is, if the gloom and doom is true.

Given all they men and women (not sure which you are, but that's an important distinction these days) who are returning from the war with thousands of hours behind the (can't remember what you call that stick between your legs...when you are in a helo, I mean...) I might suggest that the crook did you a favor.

But why do you say "at a time when hiring will slack off..." what gives you that idear? Other than, yes, the generally gloomy outlook so many of us seem to have, which as others in here have noted, may be a matter of perception, only...pushed by an "objective, non-partisan" media and politicians from one side of the aisle.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

I live in the UK.
I'm paid in dollars.

So, despite not even being allowed to vote in any US election, I am impacted directly by US monetary policy, as are many people around the world a great deal worse off than I am.

Take a look at exchange rates against the dollar since (say) 2000. The dollar used to be a beer token. Now it's a beer mat.

ETA- To ad insult to injury, I'm now expected to help bail out UK banks that decided to invest in dodgy loans to US mortgage applicants.

You have a very myopic view. I remember, oh, maybe in the late 90s, looking at castles to buy in GB. They were cheaper than I could get a 2-story house for here. Upkeep was apparently a nightmare, but my "beer mat" was something various Brits would apparently happily trade their entire history for.

Now, the worm has turned....gee...the value of money goes up AND down!?

Who knew!?

Well, everyone and anyone over the age of about 6.

Tokie

[Fnord]

So YOU'RE that guy...Listen, the next time you see my Hummer bearing down on you like that...get the hell out of the way!

Tokie

You've missed the point. I have to slow down to less than 70mph because of all the Hummers, box trucks, buses, taxis, car-poolers, and lawn-mower haulers who get in my way!

If it weren't for the Miracle Lane (a.k.a. "The Shoulder"), I might never get to work...

[Tokenconservative]

Typical political doom-speak. When a Democrat is in the presidency next year (thanks to Bush), the republican will warn the coming great depression at the hands of the Democrats. It's the same ol', same ol'. Democrates bleed us dry with funding social programs, Republicans bleed us dry with military spending. Either way were $%#@*& royaly. I got my bomb shelter stocked.

You mean I should get in my bomb shelter now! Great !!! Finaly!!!! The next words I type will be from my ultra secure "Depression" bunker. Don't come by looking for handouts I'll shoot on site. Go get your soylent green elsewhere!

It's a good thing I work from home. As long as I got my internet link I'm gainfully employed from my bunker.

Uh... If they are unemployed, homeless and have no money I doubt they would be able to afford a to have an ISP account or go to a starbuck to post on this forum.

Not getting obscenely rich...huh? I feel for you buddy. If you ain't got money pouring out your keister you ain't nobody in this country.

I live for the day when I become so rich and famous that it makes the 6:00 news when I get the hershey squirts.

I can just see it now.
"Katie Couric here for the NBC news; Tradgedy in Texas today when socialite Anthony Ethridge was rumored to have suffered severe intestinal cramps. Sadly, it was later revealed by inside sources that Anthony did indeed have Monteczouma's revenge.

Anthony Ethridge was reported to have been found unconscious and mumbling incoherently sitting on his solid gold toilet by his house keeper. " He just kept repeating 'the horror, the horror' over and over again, says a distraught and slightly nausiated Maria Valdez.

"It really stunk up the place" were the words of healing from those close to the eccentric zillionair most known for just having a rediculous amount of money.

Investigators think that the source of the infection was from the local Taco Bell which the nutty money bag was known to frequent. Which brings us to Bob Zimmer's expose' "Taco Bell: The Home of the Cheap Date or The killing fields." Take it away Bob.

1. Difference is, that the R will be um...right about it. Right now, the Dems, with thier helpers in the media, have been forcing us into a recession so that they could point and shriek, "see!? SEEEEEEE!!!?" It looks as if it is working to some degree, but not to any sort of degree that the Dems would like. They'd like to take race relations back to about 1975, and they'd really LOVE to take the economy back there, too.

2. Yep, thanks to Bush, Barak is a shoe-in, and he'll balls things up even worse than Hillary would because, as I heard someone say, "where she is left of center, Osama Obama is left of Stalin." He has already said that the "rich" (not rich as in he and his wife...they are REALLY rich, he means "rich" as in say, anyone making between $60k-200k...we are "rich" but not rich enuff to rate offshore accounts and such) had better look out, 'cause he is gonna tax them/us into poverty to punish us for being "rich."

3. You need to look a bit harder at reality. Mil. spending is a drop in the bucket, even in this war...it even was under the Reagan buildup...compared to social spending.

2. Soylent Green gives me gas.

3. Nice save. Yeah, nobody can tell me about their own tale of woe because there are not public internet access sites in the tent cities. Of course, the lack of tent cities makes it harder for them not to have access to the internet in a place that doesn't exist...it all gets very confused, huh?

4. I suggest staying away from the Soylent Green if you don't want Katie talking about your excessive TP usage.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

You've missed the point. I have to slow down to less than 70mph because of all the Hummers, box trucks, buses, taxis, car-poolers, and lawn-mower haulers who get in my way!

If it weren't for the Miracle Lane (a.k.a. "The Shoulder"), I might never get to work...

Right...that's what I was saying. I really can't physically see my gas indicator drop unless I get this thing up over 80...and I notice that most Priusis (Priusi?) top out at around 60 (you must have one of those Road Warrior nitrus setups in yours).

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to get Prius stains out of a Hummer's grill?

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Closing on page 2, here...and as yet, no tales of woe...not even from my stalkers....surely one of them has a sister-in-law whose son's girlfriend's mother's boyfriend's best friend's father's colleague's son's step-brother's former college roommate's mother's brother from another planet's cousin knows a guy who says his dad's best friend's son's mechanic's hairdresser's daughter's son was laid off down to the tire recyclin' plant.

No?

Tokie

[Fnord]

Right...that's what I was saying. I really can't physically see my gas indicator drop unless I get this thing up over 80...and I notice that most Priusis (Priusi?) top out at around 60 (you must have one of those Road Warrior nitrus setups in yours).

Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to get Prius stains out of a Hummer's grill?

Tokie

Nope, I have a 2003 model, issued before the wussifying features that impede acceleration were added to later models.

Do you have any idea how hard it is for a Hummer to catch up with an earlier-model Prius?

[Tokenconservative]

Nope, I have a 2003 model, issued before the wussifying features that impede acceleration were added to later models.

Do you have any idea how hard it is for a Hummer to catch up with an earlier-model Prius?

LOL!

I KNEW a few of you Prius types had snuck in old 454cu in engines and stuff.

Good for you!

Um...you drive it from the trunk, right?
Tokie

[Sefarst]

The price of bottled soda in the vending machines at my university has gone up 25 cents. 25 CENTS! What do they think I am, made of money? How am I going to feed my caffeine addiction? It's starting to look cheaper to develop an alcohol addiction.

Tough decisions ahead, tough decisions indeed.

[supercorgi]

Hey, this whole off-shoring trend sucks. We hired 2 writers in Russia, got them trained, and then my boss and I got laid off. We cost too much. It doesn't matter that we have 2 writers in Russia who speak English pretty well but can't write technical manuals for s**t. It costs less -- who cares that the customers can't understand the instructions that come with their software. Am I venting -- h**l yes!

[Fnord]

LOL!

I KNEW a few of you Prius types had snuck in old 454cu in engines and stuff.

Good for you!

Um...you drive it from the trunk, right?
Tokie

Common misconception. It's more like too many of my fellow hybrid-car owners have passive-aggression issues. Me? I'm just trying to get to and from work. Personally, I'd like to see those lawn-care worker trucks confined to the kiddie lanes, or even better...

"¡Estoy con 'La Migra!' ¡Saque encima, y paso el coche con sus manos para arriba!"

:D

[Shoogar]

I applied to the state of Arizona for a job doing desktop and servers computer maintenance. The job would have been perfect for me and would have payed about 50% more than I'm making now. I made it passed an initial interview and I was in the running for the position until the state announced a hiring freeze.

The hiring freeze was ordered by the governor because tax revenues are way off due to the slowdown.

http://www.azdor.gov/Newsroom/TaxFacts/2007/1207TaxFact.pdf

[Tokenconservative]

Common misconception. It's more like too many of my fellow hybrid-car owners have passive-aggression issues. Me? I'm just trying to get to and from work. Personally, I'd like to see those lawn-care worker trucks confined to the kiddie lanes, or even better...

"¡Estoy con 'La Migra!' ¡Saque encima, y paso el coche con sus manos para arriba!"

:D

Middle lanes of La Avenue de Americas in Mehico City?

Ditto.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

I applied to the state of Arizona for a job doing desktop and servers computer maintenance. The job would have been perfect for me and would have payed about 50% more than I'm making now. I made it passed an initial interview and I was in the running for the position until the state announced a hiring freeze.

The hiring freeze was ordered by the governor because tax revenues are way off due to the slowdown.

http://www.azdor.gov/Newsroom/TaxFacts/2007/1207TaxFact.pdf

Due to a real slowdown or projections? Gov't job, I am guessing projections.

Maybe I am wrong.

Still, are you living in a tent city?

Tokie

[Soapy Sam]

You have a very myopic view. I remember, oh, maybe in the late 90s, looking at castles to buy in GB. They were cheaper than I could get a 2-story house for here. Upkeep was apparently a nightmare, but my "beer mat" was something various Brits would apparently happily trade their entire history for.

Now, the worm has turned....gee...the value of money goes up AND down!?

Who knew!?

Well, everyone and anyone over the age of about 6.

Tokie

Thanks for the condescending reply.
I was six in 1961. I've been paid in US Dollars pretty well since 1979. I'm aware rates fluctuate.
You asked for examples of how the current financial conditions affect people. I gave you one.
If you don't want answers, sonny, don't ask the questions.
And try to learn some manners.

[Tokenconservative]

Hey, this whole off-shoring trend sucks. We hired 2 writers in Russia, got them trained, and then my boss and I got laid off. We cost too much. It doesn't matter that we have 2 writers in Russia who speak English pretty well but can't write technical manuals for s**t. It costs less -- who cares that the customers can't understand the instructions that come with their software. Am I venting -- h**l yes!

It's a mindless approach, to be sure. I get furious at crap like that. I remember trying to put together a kid's toy of some sort and the "English" instructions were in this sort of pidgin English you might've heard from Charlie Chan, only not anywhere near as understandable.

They piss people off, but the reality is that since most people come back time and time again willingly allowing vendors of such products TO piss them off, why should your company care?

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

The price of bottled soda in the vending machines at my university has gone up 25 cents. 25 CENTS! What do they think I am, made of money? How am I going to feed my caffeine addiction? It's starting to look cheaper to develop an alcohol addiction.

Tough decisions ahead, tough decisions indeed.

As long as you don't like rum and Coke, you'll do fine.

As I told my kids when Starbuck's raised their prices: I can make a cuppa for about $.20 I figger. If they want to pay $17.50 for a cup of coffee, it's going to be THEIR college money...

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Thanks for the condescending reply.
I was six in 1961. I've been paid in US Dollars pretty well since 1979. I'm aware rates fluctuate.
You asked for examples of how the current financial conditions affect people. I gave you one.
If you don't want answers, sonny, don't ask the questions.
And try to learn some manners.

Condescension R Us....

Yer welcome.

I asked for REAL examples...not expats living the life of Riley in GB, getting those 14 wks of gov't mandated holiday every year, a Eurail pass for what, $4.00?

No, really, I'm cryin' on the inside for ya, Junior.

Tokie

[uruk]

1. Difference is, that the R will be um...right about it. Right now, the Dems, with thier helpers in the media, have been forcing us into a recession so that they could point and shriek, "see!? SEEEEEEE!!!?" It looks as if it is working to some degree, but not to any sort of degree that the Dems would like. They'd like to take race relations back to about 1975, and they'd really LOVE to take the economy back there, too. He said/she said: It all still smells like a fresh pile. It's like watching two siblings bickering over who started the fire all the while the house is burning down.
Shaddap already and DO something about it!

2. Yep, thanks to Bush, Barak is a shoe-in, and he'll balls things up even worse than Hillary would because, as I heard someone say, "where she is left of center, Osama Obama is left of Stalin." He has already said that the "rich" (not rich as in he and his wife...they are REALLY rich, he means "rich" as in say, anyone making between $60k-200k...we are "rich" but not rich enuff to rate offshore accounts and such) had better look out, 'cause he is gonna tax them/us into poverty to punish us for being "rich." I'd think it would be a close call as to who would screw the pooch. Hillary is in it only for personal gain (everybody seems to have forgotten about Whitewater). Obama is a little too socialist for my tastes.
On the other hand McCain doesn't shiver me timbers either. I might have voted for Giuliani, but that ship has sailed.

3. You need to look a bit harder at reality. Mil. spending is a drop in the bucket, even in this war...it even was under the Reagan buildup...compared to social spending.2007-2008 military budget is supposed to be around $650 billion dollars. spending on social services is expected to be closer to $700 billion dollars. (it all depends on which source you use). I really don't see much of a difference. Defence and social programs take up the lion's share of the budget.
Like I said, If we ain't being bleed dry on defence, were being bled dry on social spending.

Either way Uncle Sam takes a big wet bite out of my #&&! and I can't afford that 100 inch HD plasma screen tv. And it breaks my heart everytime I think about it, sniff.....WAIL!!!!!

2. Soylent Green gives me gas. Me too. But it varies from person to person.

3. Nice save. Yeah, nobody can tell me about their own tale of woe because there are not public internet access sites in the tent cities. Of course, the lack of tent cities makes it harder for them not to have access to the internet in a place that doesn't exist...it all gets very confused, huh? Don't you need money to buy a tent? Does cardboard count?
Where I come from there are the equivalent of tenament housing called "colonias". most of these place don't have running water or proper sewage much less internet access. Although the drug dealers there do pretty good.
But then those colonias are nothing new to blame on any particular candidate. Just the over-all bottom end of our economy.

But then didn't Jesus say something about the poor always being with us?

4. I suggest staying away from the Soylent Green if you don't want Katie talking about your excessive TP usage. Sorry, no can do. Nothing like a soylent green burrito to hit that spot. RIDE THE BROWN WAVE!!!!!!!!!

edited to add: The social spending is much higher depending on what kind of spending you would call social spending. Does spending on Veteran affairs count as social or military?

[Shoogar]

Due to a real slowdown or projections? Gov't job, I am guessing projections.

Maybe I am wrong.

Still, are you living in a tent city?

Tokie

Keep toking Tokie. Just because most of the folks on this forum aren't affected (yet) by the economic slowdown, doesn't mean nobody is being affected. We represent a very tiny proportion of the population. I imagine most of those who are hurting financially aren't able to spend their time here. They are probably doing other things like looking for work, talking to their creditors, trying to sell their home, etc. If no-one comes up with a sob story does that mean the economy is going gangbusters and everyone but you has it wrong?

Anyway -

Did you look at the link I posted? Real revenues for the State of Arizona have declined over the year before.

Income Taxes down 5.3%
Corporate Taxes down 15.7%

The state is going to have a budget shortfall in the range of $1,000,000,000 dollars. To correct this they are not going to raise taxes at all as the state legislature is Republican controlled, so instead they are going to cut many social services and other soft targets like infrastructure maintenance on roads and buildings. And whenever social service programs get reduced or cut it is the most needy in an already unstable economic environment who get disproportionately harmeed.

Many states right now are having the same problem.

[Shoogar]

Uruk -

You mentioned Whitewater. The Clinton's lost money on the deal. Even after years of witchhunt, errr, investigation, nothing came of it.

I'm not saying the Clinton's are pure, but Whitewater is definitely reaching.

[uruk]

Uruk -

You mentioned Whitewater. The Clinton's lost money on the deal. Even after years of witchhunt, errr, investigation, nothing came of it.

I'm not saying the Clinton's are pure, but Whitewater is definitely reaching.

Maybe, but it showed the kind of people the Clintons associated with at the time. And the release of the Whitwater papers in 1995 did show that the Clintons did know that the interest payments were made by the Whitewater corporation and not them.

There was also some tax inpropriety that was addmitted by Bill.

[Tokenconservative]

He said/she said: It all still smells like a fresh pile. It's like watching two siblings bickering over who started the fire all the while the house is burning down.
Shaddap already and DO something about it!

I'd think it would be a close call as to who would screw the pooch. Hillary is in it only for personal gain (everybody seems to have forgotten about Whitewater). Obama is a little too socialist for my tastes.
On the other hand McCain doesn't shiver me timbers either. I might have voted for Giuliani, but that ship has sailed.

2007-2008 military budget is supposed to be around $650 billion dollars. spending on social services is expected to be closer to $700 billion dollars. (it all depends on which source you use). I really don't see much of a difference. Defence and social programs take up the lion's share of the budget.
Like I said, If we ain't being bleed dry on defence, were being bled dry on social spending.

Either way Uncle Sam takes a big wet bite out of my #&&! and I can't afford that 100 inch HD plasma screen tv. And it breaks my heart everytime I think about it, sniff.....WAIL!!!!!

Me too. But it varies from person to person.

Don't you need money to buy a tent? Does cardboard count?
Where I come from there are the equivalent of tenament housing called "colonias". most of these place don't have running water or proper sewage much less internet access. Although the drug dealers there do pretty good.
But then those colonias are nothing new to blame on any particular candidate. Just the over-all bottom end of our economy.

But then didn't Jesus say something about the poor always being with us?

Sorry, no can do. Nothing like a soylent green burrito to hit that spot. RIDE THE BROWN WAVE!!!!!!!!!

edited to add: The social spending is much higher depending on what kind of spending you would call social spending. Does spending on Veteran affairs count as social or military?

1. Sure...what do you suggest I do?

2. I don't like any of them either...we have a near-communist (Osama), a heavy-handed socialist (The 'Beast) or a Socialist Lite (McCain). Whatcha gonna do? Vote for Nader (I heard he's runnng again...and actually, judging from his personal life, he's the most honest guy running right now, but he's even more leftist than Osama...). So what should I do? Not vote? That's the same as voting for the "other guy." Vote some 3rd party like the Libertarians? Same thing. Move to Poland? That's what my kids want to do. My best hope is vote for McCain and hope he does not screw things up too much more than The Traitor in Chief has. I won't hold my breath, tho.

3. What's $50 billion amongst friends, right? I notice you use total mil. outlay, but don't use total social spending outlay...did you forget Social Security? Why?

4. Projects, tenement, "colonias"...those are not new. Here, though the Contract With America cut WAY back on it, in the projects you see more late model Mercedes and Caddy SUVs than you do on my street. I guess if you choose to spend your money on lightup license plate frames rather than internet access, that's your choice. There are no tent cities anywhere but in AZ...and that's a jail.

5. Jesus did say that, which is just another indicator of how the left is its own religion...they are the ones constantly shrieking that we can't do this, that or the othe 'ting until "the poor" are no longer with us. And they'd like to make you and me poor "helping" "the poor."

6. Vet Affairs is part of the social budget, but should be counted in the mil budget, and it's an insignificant fraction of just a program like WIC or foodstamps and wouldn't even be a tittle or jot in the column compared to what this nation spends educating the children of Mexicans.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Keep toking Tokie. Just because most of the folks on this forum aren't affected (yet) by the economic slowdown, doesn't mean nobody is being affected. We represent a very tiny proportion of the population. I imagine most of those who are hurting financially aren't able to spend their time here. They are probably doing other things like looking for work, talking to their creditors, trying to sell their home, etc. If no-one comes up with a sob story does that mean the economy is going gangbusters and everyone but you has it wrong?

Anyway -

Did you look at the link I posted? Real revenues for the State of Arizona have declined over the year before.

Income Taxes down 5.3%
Corporate Taxes down 15.7%

The state is going to have a budget shortfall in the range of $1,000,000,000 dollars. To correct this they are not going to raise taxes at all as the state legislature is Republican controlled, so instead they are going to cut many social services and other soft targets like infrastructure maintenance on roads and buildings. And whenever social service programs get reduced or cut it is the most needy in an already unstable economic environment who get disproportionately harmeed.

Many states right now are having the same problem.

This is indeed a self-selected population, probably not terribly representative of the population at whole.

But surely you must KNOW someone who is out of work and has no prospects (this is how things were in the 1930s and even in the late 70s, 1980s recession...). I know a number of folks who would be described as being on the "lower" economic wrungs. My brother in law is a perfect example: druggie, drunk, been in and out of jail for 20 years. He's a CDL driver. He gets fired almost as often as I change my socks. They beat down the door to hire the guy each and every time. He never goes w/o a job for more time than he WANTs to be w/o one. Tell me: if the country is in the sort of recession we saw in the 80s and/or 30s then why are people shipping stuff all over in big trucks? He drives construction...and locally, we are told in the "objective, non-partisan" media that our economy, esp. construction would compare well with that of Darfur. Meanwhile...the highways are clogged with trucks moving building materials TO sites, and hauling dirt away...funny how that works out, huh?

The other thing you are conveniently forgetting about states is that many of them (mine too) set their budgets based on projections...and most states' politicos are both economic nabobs and don't care...so they don't pay attention to economic trends, even when they are shoved down their throats, and just spend, spend, spend. Here, we passed a tax-and-spend limitation bill a few years ago. The politicos ignored it, and then we (not me...stupid people) also passed an education bill tied to the general economy. Now, of course, we are in deep trouble, too...for exactly the same reasons (but in different directions) as AZ is.

So let me see if I follow you: because politicians spend like sailors on leave, THE ECONOMY IS COLLAPSING!!!! RUN!!! WAVE YOUR ARMS OVER YOUR HEAD!!! SHRIEK!!!

Any state that cannot handle the drops you note had problems BEFORE the current slowdown, and let's face it, AZ is not a place know for its above-board honest politicians, is it?

Also, in any organization, the primary cost is payroll. Have you thought of pushing for a cut in the bloated state payroll no doubt (it IS AZ) filled with nephews and neices and cousins and brothers in law who do nothing but get paid...?

Just a thought.

You might also consider de-liberalizing your take on all those illegals you have there (what's the latest guess...500-600,000?). If Americans are unemployes, it might be because 600,000 Mexicans ARE employed. Look at OK...they seem to be handling it...getting reamed by the Feds, but hey, they are taking their shot, at least.

Just a thought.

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Uruk -

You mentioned Whitewater. The Clinton's lost money on the deal. Even after years of witchhunt, errr, investigation, nothing came of it.

I'm not saying the Clinton's are pure, but Whitewater is definitely reaching.

You'd be hardpressed to find a politico of any power from EITHER side that's lily-white, I think. Look at the Traitor in Chief...his brother, idiot tho he REALLY is (my wife knows the guy) was up to his neck in the Savings & Loan scandal--so was um...what's that fella's name...he's from AZ...just can't think of his name right now...was in with a feller named Keating...hmm...this is gonna bug me all day!

Bill is from AK...so it's no surprise he's a crooked politico. AK will hold its own against LA or even Chicago for crooked political dealings, any day of the week, and you don't get to be Gov there without being a crook.

Hillary is and has been since she was a comely lass, driven by one desire: to polish the chair in the Oval Office with her backside. She does not care if she destroys her party or her nation getting there, so longs as she GETs there.

Now, that's looking unlikely...unfortunatley, that's because an even MORE socialist socialist is competing with her and so many people are looking at this harlequin's smile and teeth and how pretty his wife is and how smooth a talker he is rather than his record and the fact that so far he's said squat about what his plans are as president...

But hey, he LOOKs like "Young Politico Full of Vim and Vigor" from Central Casting, so morons all over are behind him!

Tokie

[Tokenconservative]

Hmmm...coming onto a whole day since I started this thread and not one...not ONE real tale of woe.

Someone said that due to a state gov't slowdown, a job he'd been hired for went away (he's not unemployed, just that the job went away...)...oh, and another guy assured me that, harrumph, we here in this forum are, ahem, the cream o' the crop...surely WE would not be impacted by the, harrumph, downturn in the economy, old bean.

Oh. Of course not. So all the computer geeks in here (and they are legion) are still um...geeking...who, I wonder, is BUYING their services if the economy is tanking?

I guess the Chinese.

Tokie

[uruk]

1. Sure...what do you suggest I do?The "do something" comment was not directed at you.

2. I don't like any of them either...we have a near-communist (Osama), a heavy-handed socialist (The 'Beast) or a Socialist Lite (McCain). Whatcha gonna do? Vote for Nader (I heard he's runnng again...and actually, judging from his personal life, he's the most honest guy running right now, but he's even more leftist than Osama...). So what should I do? Not vote? That's the same as voting for the "other guy." Vote some 3rd party like the Libertarians? Same thing. Move to Poland? That's what my kids want to do. My best hope is vote for McCain and hope he does not screw things up too much more than The Traitor in Chief has. I won't hold my breath, tho. Well that just the political landscape. Should I head for the cliff, bottomless pit or the pit of fire. It's your choice.
Nader does seem like an honest guy, but if he were to ever be elected he would be a lame duck.

3. What's $50 billion amongst friends, right? I notice you use total mil. outlay, but don't use total social spending outlay...did you forget Social Security? Why? It was the source I used. I did correct myself further down the post.

4. Projects, tenement, "colonias"...those are not new. Here, though the Contract With America cut WAY back on it, in the projects you see more late model Mercedes and Caddy SUVs than you do on my street. I guess if you choose to spend your money on lightup license plate frames rather than internet access, that's your choice. There are no tent cities anywhere but in AZ...and that's a jail. The Mercedes, Caddy SUV's, and Harleys you see parked out infront of the projects belong to the local drug dealers. You could always tell who were the drug dealers in the government housing project I grew up in because they had the Harleys and Caddys. The rest of us had used Ford Escorts if we were lucky enough to find work.

5. Jesus did say that, which is just another indicator of how the left is its own religion...they are the ones constantly shrieking that we can't do this, that or the othe 'ting until "the poor" are no longer with us. And they'd like to make you and me poor "helping" "the poor."I guess Jesus never heard of "trickle down" which sounds pretty close to "piss on".

Heaven forbid the rediculously rich ever redistribute some of that excess wealth. But like my rich uncle used to say,"you don't get rich by giving away money".
But hey they had other people work very hard to make them all that money, why should they have to give it up right? Noone says they should, well, except communists and socialists.

Besides they have the middle class as a buffer and all those poor people should get off thier lazy a$$es and find work, right?

6. Vet Affairs is part of the social budget, but should be counted in the mil budget, and it's an insignificant fraction of just a program like WIC or foodstamps and wouldn't even be a tittle or jot in the column compared to what this nation spends educating the children of Mexicans.

Tokie Also let's not forget all that corporate welfare. You know all the bail outs and tax breaks to keep poorly run companies from folding up and laying off all thoses workers that work hard to help pay for the all the CEO's salaries and golden parachutes.

Well legaly if the child was born here in the U.S. he/she is a citizen. You could always try to have the law changed.

[uruk]

Oh. Of course not. So all the computer geeks in here (and they are legion) are still um...geeking...who, I wonder, is BUYING their services if the economy is tanking?

I guess the Chinese.

Tokie
That's not too terribly far from the truth. I personaly know two computer geek emeritus that just recently came back from China where they were doing some training and work. Both, oddly enough, are in the network security business.


You might also consider de-liberalizing your take on all those illegals you have there (what's the latest guess...500-600,000?). If Americans are unemployes, it might be because 600,000 Mexicans ARE employed. Look at OK...they seem to be handling it...getting reamed by the Feds, but hey, they are taking their shot, at least.

Just a thought.

Tokie That's right! we can't afford to loose anymore jobs considering all the jobs we lost by corporations moving all thier factories out of the country.

Yea, most found new jobs at the expense of pensions and healthcare coverage and some cases, thier homes. Try starting over at a new job after working for years at a factory that was closed down especially when you were getting close to retirement.

Build that wall! It'll slow them down.........for about five minuets.

[Spock Jenkins]

I live in a decent area in the suburbs of a medium sized midwestern city. I can see where some things are impacted. The neighborhood where I live was started in 2003. The first year - just about every lot was presold and the homes were built to order. After that, our builder built most of the homes in advance and tried to sell them. Almost got all the way through phase 3. The last two spec homes have sat unsold for over a year and one lot sits vacant. In phase 4, one home out of 20 lots has sold in a year. One spec home sits unsold. No other lots are sold. Our builder finally had to allow the developer to open up the lots to other builders a few months ago. Still, nothing is moving. On the main road that our neighborhood sits off of, one house sits empty. It was an older farm house that sat on the market for months. The owner tried to burn it down for the insurance money because they couldn't sell it. I'm guessing the former owner is in no position to post here and give you their first hand tale. Now it sits empty in disrepair. Two doors down from that house, another sits empty with a sale sign out front and foreclosure stickers all over it. Keep in mind - I'm not in the city here. Right accross the street from those homes are $300,000 - $400,000 condos on a lake. Our neighborhood has homes ranging from $250,000 - $350,000 or better.

We've had one neighbor sell their house for less than what they paid for it two years after they purchased it. They were forced to sell due to divorce. Another neighbor had their house sit on the market for over a year before giving up and taking the sign down. A third has had their house on the market for well over a year. Our area did not experience the insane housing inflation that some of the larger metro areas did - but people still can't move property right now.

This is in part due to a general economic slow down and in part due to the real estate market conditions.

All that being said, I am in Michigan - and we have been in an economic funk relative to the rest of the nation for a while. It's like our govenor said during her campaign, "In five year, you'll be blown away!" Yep. She hit the nail on the head. Didn't think she could do worse than her first term - but she's managing.

[Polaris]

Tokie, AK is Alaska. AR is Arkansas.