Clarification on Biblical view of life after death

[Last of the Fraggles]

Can someone clarify for me exactly what the Bible says with regards to 'where you go when you die'

Seems to be a lot of conflicting reports in terms of what Heaven is, where it is, when we go there etc etc. Same goes for Hell. Some even seem to say there is no Hell in the Bible.

Not being a bible scholar and not having the free time right now to do the research could someone with a bit of a better understanding of these things clarify for me?

Does the bible actually claim that you whizz off to heaven when you die or is it the case that you wait in the ground until Jesus returns then everyone gets whizzed off together? What's this Rapture nonsense also?

Does the bible actually claim you get whizzed off to hell when you die or is it as above with the hell stuff only happening after the 2nd coming or is it simply that Hell is not getting into Heaven and just being dead?

Also, whatever the clarification is, where do the alternative versions spring from and what basis do they have if not the Bible?

[Darth Rotor]

Can someone clarify for me exactly what the Bible says with regards to 'where you go when you die'

Seems to be a lot of conflicting reports in terms of what Heaven is, where it is, when we go there etc etc. Same goes for Hell. Some even seem to say there is no Hell in the Bible.

Not being a bible scholar and not having the free time right now to do the research could someone with a bit of a better understanding of these things clarify for me?

Does the bible actually claim that you whizz off to heaven when you die or is it the case that you wait in the ground until Jesus returns then everyone gets whizzed off together? What's this Rapture nonsense also?

Does the bible actually claim you get whizzed off to hell when you die or is it as above with the hell stuff only happening after the 2nd coming or is it simply that Hell is not getting into Heaven and just being dead?

Also, whatever the clarification is, where do the alternative versions spring from and what basis do they have if not the Bible?
To wrap your arms around the concept:

Think of it as a state, rather than as a physical destination. The physical remains, the spiritual enters a new state, one not confined to the mortal framework.

I'll get a ref in a bit. This topic has filled some hundreds of tomes. Getting a short answer might not be as easy as you hope.

Of course, you can also take the position "it's all a load of bollocks, ashes to ashes dust to dust" encompasses it all, and it's all over, no Heaven, Hell, Limbo, et al.

ETA: OK, here are a few references, but not all of them. Bible Gateway is a handy reference, all quotes from there, for ease of cutting and pasting:
12Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.

13And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

14And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
Aside: this is the Biblical origin for old people saying "I have fallen, and I can't get up."

:11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
As you can see, this is a pattern, though in this case it's the prophesy of slipping and falling on unmopped Big Gulps at a convenince store.
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
Here, one can conclude that there is air in heaven, hence lift, or, that angels levitate. They appear to use trumpets as cars use horns, though again, the reference is a bit vague.
There is some thought that eating will occur in Heaven

8 And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth.

9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

1 0And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Aside: This is a scriptural reference to chili recipes. It thus follows that any Chili Cookoff is Holy.

Here we see some floating up to heaven of those filled with the Holy Spirit

7And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Aside: An alternate interpretatoin is that this represents the post Christmas euphoria, foretold, of paying off the credit card bills.

And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
With this consistent reference, we see that gravity works in Heaven, at least on the elderly.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
And lo, the weatherman had predicted "partly cloudy, with a ten percent chance of showers." And he was smitten for his bearing of false prophesy. Anyway, looks like Heaven has weather. Bring your Soul Brand Sun Screen.
21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
More inclement weather in heaven. Bring your titanium umbrella.
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
So, there is a pit, and perdition. Someone is going there.
18And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
And the city was called Hollywood.

1 And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God:

2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

3 And again they said, Alleluia And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.

4 And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.


As you can see, there will be much people in Heaven, and Paris Hilton will be smokin'
Here you get some heaven and hell, which appears to be temporary

1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
One can infer from all this that the Devil is back, has been for about a thousand years. For evidence we have junk bond salesmen.

You need more?

OK, here you get some hellfire and brimstone.


10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
There ya go. If you aren't in the book, into the lake of fire you go.

Pro Tip: Get in the Book.



1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven,
== skip a bit, Brother ==
22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

27And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.
There's that book again, and a city that has a zero carbon footprint.

11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Used car salesmen, it seems, will be swimming in that lake of fire.

So there you have it, some references to what happens, after.

From the Bible.

DR

[Last of the Fraggles]

Of course, you can also take the position "it's all a load of bollocks, ashes to ashes dust to dust" encompasses it all, and it's all over, no Heaven, Hell, Limbo, et al.

DR

Well yeah, but thats not the Biblical answer, is it?

I'm really just interested in what the bible actually says and how far the standard, modern day, accepted interpretation (something like 'Good people float up to Heaven when they die) has drifted from what is written down and whether this latter interpretation is based on anything more than misunderstanding/wishful thinking.

[Darth Rotor]

Well yeah, but thats not the Biblical answer, is it?
If you aren't of the Faith, why does it matter?

I'm really just interested in what the bible actually says
You want to know what the Bible actually says?

Read it.

There is a great thing called "a Concordance"

If you go to Bible Gateway, or any number of other Bible internet sites, it works like a keyword search. Put in the topics you want a reference for, and the concordance will provide you with scriptural references.

In the old days, you had to get a Bible that had a concordance, or buy a separate concordance to use with your own Bible.

Now, with the internet, you can save the cash.

Too easy.

and how far the standard, modern day, accepted interpretation (something like 'Good people float up to Heaven when they die) has drifted from what is written down and whether this latter interpretation is based on anything more than misunderstanding/wishful thinking.
Well, there is no standard, modern interpretation, but I cited for you from Revelation the bit about people floating up to Heaven when they die.

Again, from Revelation 11, per above.

11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

Other references to 'eternal life' and "sitting with the Father" and a whole lot else are available a few mouse clicks away.

Again, seeking some "modern day, accepted, standard" bit is a fool's errand. Christians themselves don't agree on all of that.

It's part of the fun.

DR

[This Guy]

I'll also dig up some biblical reference for you.

Generally I think you'll find that the old testament has little reference to a "resurrection". That's pretty much a Christian concept. I don't think there is ever a mention in the old testament of seeing a departed person in heaven at some future time. I welcome corrections to my understanding.

In the new testament the general theme is that the saints (true believers) will be raised at the 2nd coming, when Christ returns and takes rule of his Kingdom. Of course this was supposed to have happened during the lifetime of some of the Apostles, so either there are some very old Apostles out there somewhere, or Christ is running very late. Probably a traffic problem, what with all the construction and all. (Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.)

Just some quick references: As with Darth, all references are from http://www.biblegateway.com and are from the Kings James version.

2 Kings 2:11 talks of Elijah going up to heaven. I believe this is the first mention of a person, other than God being in, or going to heaven. Most verses earlier (book/chapter wise) speak of things coming down from heaven (fire, water...), things under heaven, things of that sort.

2 Kings 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

From Job 14 -
7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.

8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;

9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.

10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?

11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:

12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.

This fairly plainly says that when a man dies, he's just dead. No raising up, no wake up call. Just death. Until the heavens be no more (in which case they can't hardly be raised up to heaven, since it will be gone).

In the New Testament we have -

1 Corinthians 6:14

14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

1 Corinthians 15 (I suggest reading this whole chapter)

12 Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

Indicating that there is a resurrection of the dead in Christ.

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Indicates that the resurrected body is a spiritual body, not a body of flesh and bone.

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Indicates that the dead will be raised when the last trumpet sounds, when Christ has defeated evil, and cured cancer, and made sure all vending machines give the product you paid for, and correct change back.

Hope this helped.

[Agular]

Psalm 6:

4 Return, O LORD, deliver my soul: oh save me for thy mercies' sake.

5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

Sounds like the writer believed that death was the end.

[Ichneumonwasp]

Darth Rotor,

Just a quick question about how you interpret this sort of passage -- I know there are many ways to do so, but I was wondering about your take since you mentioned it up above:

Originally Posted by Revelation 20
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.


I have a hard time being sure about our more modern interpretations of heaven and hell, since it seems to me (and this passage is a prime example that I think fits) that most of the passages refer more to non-existence as the result of not believing. Most of Paul's letters seem to concern eternal life as a gift of belief and non-existence as the result of non-belief. Since the fire was the place where criminals bodies were tossed, is it not likely that this passage refers to judgment leading to ultimate non-existence (second death) and your resurrected body being tossed in the pit?

I could be completely wrong, but it seems to me that the idea of Hell (as we have it) came about when everyone was a Christian in Medieval Europe. When Christianity was first beginning it sounds (again, to me) like the teaching was all about "believe and live" but in the middle ages almost everyone believed, so it had to be more along the lines of "you're going to burn, junior, for disrespecting me, now go out and plow that field and stop raping your cousin."

[Hokulele]

Darth Rotor,

Just a quick question about how you interpret this sort of passage -- I know there are many ways to do so, but I was wondering about your take since you mentioned it up above:


I know this was addressed to Darth, but I just wanted to chime in with an additional interpretation. This passage makes it quite clear that it is by your works that you will be judged, not your beliefs (unless you classify thoughts as actions). Read literally, and to avoid conflicts with the whole message of Jesus being the only path to salvation, it would imply that the wicked are cast into the lake of fire, those who accept Jesus go to heaven, and the rest of us . . . ???

[Ichneumonwasp]

I know this was addressed to Darth, but I just wanted to chime in with an additional interpretation. This passage makes it quite clear that it is by your works that you will be judged, not your beliefs (unless you classify thoughts as actions). Read literally, and to avoid conflicts with the whole message of Jesus being the only path to salvation, it would imply that the wicked are cast into the lake of fire, those who accept Jesus go to heaven, and the rest of us . . . ???

Yes, good point. I'm still bothered a bit by what all this means, though. I still don't get the flavor of eternal life for the damned from it -- no eternal torment. It's been a few years since I re-read Revelation, though, so maybe I should pick it up again. I think it is a bit dicey trying to figure out eternity from a book that was really about "stick it out kid, the end's coming soon" anyway, but that's a different matter.

[advancedatheist]

Ecclesiastes 3: 19-21:

"Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

[UnrepentantSinner]

Does the bible actually claim that you whizz off to heaven when you die or is it the case that you wait in the ground until Jesus returns then everyone gets whizzed off together? What's this Rapture nonsense also?

Does the bible actually claim you get whizzed off to hell when you die or is it as above with the hell stuff only happening after the 2nd coming or is it simply that Hell is not getting into Heaven and just being dead?

Also, whatever the clarification is, where do the alternative versions spring from and what basis do they have if not the Bible?

The Readers Disgest version, from what I understand of Protestantism, is there are two strains of thought based in interpretation of various verses (including those DR and others have pointed out). Calvinists tend to think of the soul being "on ice" until Judgement Day, while the other denominations think the soul goes to heaven after death.

[AkuManiMani]

Can someone clarify for me exactly what the Bible says with regards to 'where you go when you die'

Seems to be a lot of conflicting reports in terms of what Heaven is, where it is, when we go there etc etc. Same goes for Hell. Some even seem to say there is no Hell in the Bible.

Not being a bible scholar and not having the free time right now to do the research could someone with a bit of a better understanding of these things clarify for me?

Does the bible actually claim that you whizz off to heaven when you die or is it the case that you wait in the ground until Jesus returns then everyone gets whizzed off together? What's this Rapture nonsense also?

Does the bible actually claim you get whizzed off to hell when you die or is it as above with the hell stuff only happening after the 2nd coming or is it simply that Hell is not getting into Heaven and just being dead?

Also, whatever the clarification is, where do the alternative versions spring from and what basis do they have if not the Bible?

The bible doesn't give any coherent description of the afterlife.

It mentions "Abraham's Bosom", "Paradise", Hell, and "the Lake of Fire" all as separate places.

Then, as if that weren't confusing, Ecclesiastes clearly states that "the dead know nothing" suggesting that death is the end of consciousness.

Its best to keep in mind that the bible isn't one singular endeavor -- its a collection of various writings by many different people from many different time periods -- all of them with different views.

[Beerina]

Personally, I estimate these odds:

20% -- You'll wake up like Neo in the Matrix

20% -- You'll be resurrected by advanced science of the future in a techno-rapture

10% -- You'll be debriefed, having been "born" the old-fashioned way by some future society, and this world is some fishbowl terrarium to do that

50% -- You never wake up at all because the subatomic particle configuration that is you never re-forms

0% -- A traditional "god" will resurrect you and/or float you off to Heaven or Hell

[Radrook]

The scriptures cited so far were understood correctly. The condition of the dead is total sensory perception cessation.

That is until God chooses to "awaken" the person as he plans to do via resurrection.

John 11

23Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.

24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

That's why the Jesus compared death to sleep-because of the resurrection awakening that was promised.

John 11:

11These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

12Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.

13Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.

14Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
================================================== ===========
bolding mine

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;

[Radrook]

Ecclesiastes 3: 19-21:

"Man's fate is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath ; man has no advantage over the animal. Everything is meaningless. All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. Who knows if the spirit of man rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

There is a difference between the Hebrew word "ruah" which is translated spirit and "Nephesh" which is translated soul. In this instance we have the word "ruah" which is not synonymous with "nephesh". In any case, both animals and humans share the same life activating force called "ruah" mentioned here and are both referred to as nephesh in Genesis. However, "ruah" is never used to refer to a person himself, his present life or his future life but is applied to such things as the wind and other inanimate forces. When death arrives, the "ruah", or life activating force or breath of life mentioned in Genesis in reference to Adam's creation, leaves the animal body as it does the human body.


Only by the body's being jump-started via the breath of life does it become a living soul. Otherwise it is practically asleewp in death or inanimate.

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 6:17
And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.

Genesis 7:15
And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.

Genesis 7:22
All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

It's that breath of life-that ruah-active force or spirit that Eccelesastes is referring to when it says that its direction when it leaves the body is unknown.


BTW
I might have misspelled the word "ruah" but will correct as soon as it becomes possible if I did. The word is used to decribe God's creative force in Genesis 1:2.


Excerpt
Term "Spirit" translates the Hebrew word ruah

“The term "Spirit" translates the Hebrew word ruah, which, in its primary sense, means breath, air, wind. Jesus indeed uses the sensory image of the wind to suggest to Nicodemus the transcendent newness of him who is personally God's breath, the divine Spirit." (Jn 3:5-8.)”
http://www.adishakti.org/_/term_spirit_translates_the_hebrew.htm

[Radrook]

Can someone clarify for me exactly what the Bible says with regards to 'where you go when you die'.

Explained in other responses.

Seems to be a lot of conflicting reports in terms of what Heaven is, where it is, when we go there etc etc. Same goes for Hell. Some even seem to say there is no Hell in the Bible.

The Bible doesn't tell us where heaven is in directional relation to our earth. It merely tells us it's where God and his angels reside.

The word hell is a mistranslation of Gehenna, Sheol, and Tartarus.

1. Sheol= common grave of mankind translated in the NT quotes of OT scriptures as hades.

2. Gehenna= Incinerator outside gates of Jerusalem where garbage and executed criminals considered unworthy of a resurrection were thrown. Jesus used it as a symbol of eternal destruction.

3. Tartarus-a prison or restricted condition for rebel angels. The Bible never uses it in relation to humans.

Does the bible actually claim that you whizz off to heaven when you die.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.

No, that resurrection to heaven promise was to happen during the last trumpet or end times.

In order to go there a person has to be transformed for survival in heaven before the very presence of God. That preparation necessitates the death of the material body and the granting of a new a glorious one.

1 Corinthians 15:52

51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Does the bible actually claim you get whizzed off to hell when you die....?"

If everyone is judged immediately upon death then a resurrection and Judgment Day would be needless.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.


Also, whatever the clarification is, where do the alternative versions spring from and what basis do they have if not the Bible?

Most versions spring from the belief that the Bible can be interpreted a million different ways. Many as a consequence have absolutely no legitimate basis in the Bible.