FBI documents contradict 9/11 Commission report

[HereticHulk]

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/FBI_documents_contradict_Sept._11_Commission_0228. html

Newly-released records obtained through a Freedom of Information Act request contradict the 9/11 Commission’s report on the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks and raise fresh questions about the role of Saudi government officials in connection to the hijackers......

Robert Baer, a former CIA case officer:
“There are enough discrepancies and unanswered questions in the 9/11 Commission report that under a friendly administration, the 9/11 investigation should be re-opened,” Baer wrote in an email message Tuesday night.

Bob Kerrey:
“Congress should demand direct access to those who organized the attacks; our indirect interviews were at best inadequate,” Kerrey wrote. “And Congress should pursue [the] question of whether the Saudi government aided the conspiracy.”

Maybe a new administration will reopen the 9/11 investigation? No matter where you stand on 9/11, there are far too many unanswered questions for being the largest terrorist attack on US soil.

[CHF]

So the government of Saudi Arabia...the folks who sponsor radical Islamists around the world, where Wahabbism is the official state religion, the country from where 15 of 19 hijackers originated...you're telling me that the people in charge of this place might have had a role in aiding 9/11?

Sounds pretty plausible.

Too bad more twoofers don't focus on the real conspiracy of 9/11: the fact that America was basically attacked by an "allied" nation. Yet Bush wages war in Iraq....

[twinstead]

Too bad more twoofers don't focus on the real conspiracy of 9/11: the fact that America was basically attacked by an "allied" nation. Yet Bush wages war in Iraq....

I would heartily agree. THIS is the kind of 'conspiracy' that people should be talking about, not thermite, death rays, micro nukes, remote-controlled planes, holograms, etc...

Sadly, when Heretichulk starts a thread like this the inevitable result is some kind of claim that these calls for another investigation should concentrate on 911 being an inside job.

[funk de fino]

First claim is that the 911 commission report was faulty for not saying that one of the hijackers had flights booked for after the attacks?

Why did the commission report need to put this in? Irrelevant nonsense.

[twinstead]

First claim is that the 911 commission report was faulty for not saying that one of the hijackers had flights booked for after the attacks?

Why did the commission report need to put this in? Irrelevant nonsense.

there's lots of irrelevant nonsense there, but I still think the Saudi connection was candy coated in the report.

[funk de fino]

Bob Kerrey made the above comments after reading Shenons book, not the FBI documents.

Kerrey declined to comment for this article. Other Commission members did not respond to requests for comment.

[funk de fino]

Baer thinks bayoumi should be investigated for possible assistance to two hijackers. He does not claim or back up any inside job nonsense on the US part.

[twinstead]

Baer thinks bayoumi should be investigated for possible assistance to two hijackers. He does not claim or back up any inside job nonsense on the US part.

The articles brought up by the OP are the equivalent of truthers on the science side of the issue bringing up, for example, Quintere and claiming his objections support an inside job.

It's smacks of desperation.

[CHF]

The Saudi connection raises another interesting question that never seems to occur to twoofers:

If 9/11 was an inside job, why didn't the US government blame it on Iraqi terrorists?

It certainly would have saved them a whole lot of trouble, such as having to sugercoat the fact that their allies attack them, or having to justify the Iraq invasion with WMDs that couldn't be found.

[twinstead]

If 9/11 was an inside job, why didn't the US government blame it on Iraqi terrorists?


Yea, somebody at NWO center lost his corner office over that little oversight...

[HereticHulk]

The Saudi connection raises another interesting question that never seems to occur to twoofers:

If 9/11 was an inside job, why didn't the US government blame it on Iraqi terrorists?

It certainly would have saved them a whole lot of trouble, such as having to sugercoat the fact that their allies attack them, or having to justify the Iraq invasion with WMDs that couldn't be found.

Well, they more or less did. They tried desperately to tie Al-qaeda to Iraq. Iraq harbors (past tense) terrorists, remember?

[Drudgewire]

Kerrey declined to comment for this article. Other Commission members did not respond to requests for comment.
A site whose tagline is "alternative news" can't get quotes from people? What is the world coming to? :rolleyes:

[HereticHulk]

The articles brought up by the OP are the equivalent of truthers on the science side of the issue bringing up, for example, Quintere and claiming his objections support an inside job.

It's smacks of desperation.

Whatever.

I think it points to a LIHOP scenario. Did you miss this part?:

“About two months after al-Bayoumi began aiding Alhazmi and Almihdhar, NEWSWEEK has learned, al-Bayoumi's wife began receiving regular stipends, often monthly and usually around $2,000, totaling tens of thousands of dollars. The money came in the form of cashier's checks, purchased from Washington's Riggs Bank by Princess Haifa bint Faisal, the daughter of the late King Faisal and wife of Prince Bandar, the Saudi envoy who is a prominent Washington figure and personal friend of the Bush family.

I do agree that the whole CD speculation is nonsense.

[beachnut]

(great source - the raw story- Larisa Alexandrovna - bet she loves bush)We should invade Saudi Arabia they would kill terrorist and we just have them sit around. We can not have country cut off the heads of terrorist it is so barbaric, we should invade them and bring them water-boarding and long term care in a tropical facility. Cutting off heads is not the thing to do to terrorist, no wonder they camped out with UBL in Afghanistan; they like water-boarding and a trip to Cuba!

What a crock of junk, the book is full of junk, and the bs stuff is just right for 9/11 truth to jump on if it did not require reading for understanding. They will only use the hearsay snippets of reinvestigate and other quote mining from people who can read and understand and distort. Without doing any work, 9/11 truth will do what they do best
http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/87904670cd1dc0fcb.jpg

The OP is a repeat from somewhere else, if not here at JREF.

[aggle-rithm]

Iraq harbors (past tense) terrorists, remember?

Here's how you do past tense:

"harbored"

(Sorry, couldn't resist)

[CHF]

Well, they more or less did. They tried desperately to tie Al-qaeda to Iraq. Iraq harbors (past tense) terrorists, remember?

Yeah and it failed miserably, hense the WMD justification.

Now had the US staged 9/11 do you think they would have had to "more or less" try to "desperately tie Al-qaeda to Iraq?"

No - the connection would have been obvious and it would have been included in the plot. Instead the 9/11 conspiracy included no links to Iraq whatsoever.

Sometimes I think twoofers believe 9/11 was an inside job because it's exactly how they would have pulled off such a conspiracy if they'd been put in charge of it.

"No, we won't do a successful repeat of the 1993 attack...instead we'll use bombs, thermite, drones, faked passenger airphone calls, maybe laser beam or two.....and to top it all off we won't blame it on the people we want to attack! Instead we'll use a WMD justification and we won't even plant some WMD in the event that we don't find any.

This plan simply cannot fail...unless some single white males in their early 20s make a movie about it and post it on youtube."
:dl:

[LastChild]

I would heartily agree. THIS is the kind of 'conspiracy' that people should be talking about, not thermite, death rays, micro nukes, remote-controlled planes, holograms, etc...

Sadly, when Heretichulk starts a thread like this the inevitable result is some kind of claim that these calls for another investigation should concentrate on 911 being an inside job.

So then wht do you spend so much time on all that other stuff?

[LastChild]

Yea, somebody at NWO center lost his corner office over that little oversight...

There you go.

[aggle-rithm]

Whatever.

I think it points to a LIHOP scenario. Did you miss this part?:

“About two months after al-Bayoumi began aiding Alhazmi and Almihdhar, NEWSWEEK has learned, al-Bayoumi's wife began receiving regular stipends, often monthly and usually around $2,000, totaling tens of thousands of dollars..."




$2000 a month? You could earn that working at McDonald's, with a little overtime.

[defaultdotxbe]

So then wht do you spend so much time on all that other stuff?
i think you should be asking your fellow truthers that question

[twinstead]

So then wht do you spend so much time on all that other stuff?

I don't have a problem spending a lot of time expressing my outrage at the idiocy of those things, thank you.

[HereticHulk]

:words:

How did you get off ignore?

[LastChild]

Why did a suicide hijacker book future flights? Was he planning a vacation for himself and his virgins?

And why was that left out of the 9/11 commission report?

[aggle-rithm]

Why did a suicide hijacker book future flights? Was he planning a vacation for himself and his virgins?


It would be a good way to throw investigators off, if they were happened to stumble onto his plan. If they figured out he was going to hijack a plane and wanted to stop him, they would assume he was going to hijack the last flight he had booked.

Make sense?

[ZouPrime]

It would be a good way to throw investigators off, if they were happened to stumble onto his plan. If they figured out he was going to hijack a plane and wanted to stop him, they would assume he was going to hijack the last flight he had booked.

Make sense?
There's also the very real possibility that some hijackers weren't actually aware of the "suicide" part of the plan. They may have been kept in the dark about the nature of their sacrifice until the very last moment.

[HereticHulk]

It would be a good way to throw investigators off, if they were happened to stumble onto his plan. If they figured out he was going to hijack a plane and wanted to stop him, they would assume he was going to hijack the last flight he had booked.

There's also the very real possibility that some hijackers weren't actually aware of the "suicide" part of the plan. They may have been kept in the dark about the nature of their sacrifice until the very last moment.

This is exactly to the point!

A lot of unanswered questions that were glossed over, considering the magnitude of the operation and lives lost on 9/11.

[tsig]

There you go.

Be careful of cats.

[cisco]

The ironic thing about this is, there might have been criminal negligence surrounding 9/11. If the trooth movement hadn't polluted the discourse with so much noise and lies about bombs, missiles, thermite, stand down orders, etc, it would probably be a lot easier to get further investigation.

Now anyone with any credibility who tries to look into it is going to be stonewalled as a nutcase. The trooth lied to try to get their way, and shot themselves in the foot in the process!

That, troothers, is a lesson on maturity, honesty, integrity, and civil discourse.

[tsig]

There's also the very real possibility that some hijackers weren't actually aware of the "suicide" part of the plan. They may have been kept in the dark about the nature of their sacrifice until the very last moment.


The only ones who really had to know were the pilots.

[HereticHulk]

The ironic thing about this is, there might have been criminal negligence surrounding 9/11. If the trooth movement hadn't polluted the discourse with so much noise and lies about bombs, missiles, thermite, stand down orders, etc, it would probably be a lot easier to get further investigation.

Now anyone with any credibility who tries to look into it is going to be stonewalled as a nutcase. The trooth lied to try to get their way, and shot themselves in the foot in the process!

That, troothers, is a lesson on maturity, honesty, integrity, and civil discourse.

How do you know the 'trooth movement' 'polluted the discourse'?

How do you know it wasn't a Operation Mockingbird type infiltration?

You do have a point, Alex Jones can be blamed for a lot of this 9/11 lunatic fringe mentality.

[ZouPrime]

This is exactly to the point!

A lot of unanswered questions that were glossed over, considering the magnitude of the operation and lives lost on 9/11.

But how the hell do you expect to answer something like this? We can't read the dead's mind.

Plenty of things that happened that day will remain forever obscure. Such is the reality of life.

[ZouPrime]

How do you know the 'trooth movement' 'polluted the discourse'?

How do you know it wasn't a Operation Mockingbird type operation?
I thought we were the sell out. Are you telling me that a large portion of the truth movement should be considered "in it" too?

[LastChild]

It would be a good way to throw investigators off, if they were happened to stumble onto his plan. If they figured out he was going to hijack a plane and wanted to stop him, they would assume he was going to hijack the last flight he had booked.

Make sense?

Oh I see. And that's why they left it out of the 9/11 commission report?

[Dave Rogers]

How do you know the 'trooth movement' 'polluted the discourse'?

How do you know it wasn't a Operation Mockingbird type infiltration?


And there is a classic example of exactly how the truth movement pollutes the discourse.

Dave

[cisco]

How do you know the 'trooth movement' 'polluted the discourse'?

How do you know it wasn't a Operation Mockingbird type infiltration?


How do you know there isn't a teapot orbiting the sun between Earth and Mars?

[HereticHulk]

And there is a classic example of exactly how the truth movement pollutes the discourse.

Dave
Survey says............................Fail.

[Swing Dangler]

Maybe that is why the FBI shut down the investigation into a Saudi terror cell in Boston....

A software company called Ptech, founded by a Saudi financier placed on America’s Terrorist List in October 2001, had access to the FAA’s entire computer system for two years before the 9/11 attack.

Last week, when the National 9/11 Commission held hearings on The Aviation Security System and the 9/11 Attack, government and aviation officials described a system unprepared for the events that unfolded on September 11. None of them, however, mentioned security breaches involving “Saudi terrorists in the basement of the FAA. Source: Here (http://www.madcowprod.com/index45.html). ”

[aggle-rithm]

Oh I see. And that's why they left it out of the 9/11 commission report?

I don't know why it was left out of the 9/11 commission report. Nor do I find it particularly relevant.

If I'm wrong, please demonstrate how and why.

[Swing Dangler]

It would be a good way to throw investigators off, if they were happened to stumble onto his plan. If they figured out he was going to hijack a plane and wanted to stop him, they would assume he was going to hijack the last flight he had booked.

Make sense?

Or the guy was a patsy and he knew it and had plans to travel back to the homeland and elsewhere after things settled down.

[LastChild]

I don't know why it was left out of the 9/11 commission report. Nor do I find it particularly relevant.

If I'm wrong, please demonstrate how and why.

It's not unusual for someone like you to find things irrelevant if they don't particularly support your view on 9/11. That's just business as usual around here.

I was just thinking that some might find it relevant that the so-called fanatical suicide terrorist on a mission from Allah might have had plans for after 9/11.

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.

[DGM]

Or the guy was a patsy and he knew it and had plans to travel back to the homeland and elsewhere after things settled down.
You don't think if they thought someone might pick out the date (of the attack) with just one way tickets they wouldn't book other flights. These people weren't stupid you know.

[DGM]

It's not unusual for someone like you to find things irrelevant if they don't particularly support your view on 9/11. That's just business as usual around here.

I was just thinking that some might find it relevant that the so-called fanatical suicide terrorist on a mission from Allah might have had plans for after 9/11.

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.
Or irrelevant enough to not include it.

[johnny karate]

It's not unusual for someone like you to find things irrelevant if they don't particularly support your view on 9/11. That's just business as usual around here.

I was just thinking that some might find it relevant that the so-called fanatical suicide terrorist on a mission from Allah might have had plans for after 9/11.

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.

I just hope LastChild takes the responsible and moral course of action and takes this bombshell to some type of investigative or law enforcement agency so we can finally get this new investigation off the ground.

I hope he doesn't just keep lamely posting here and arguing in circles with us shills while the true murderers go free.

LastChild, you are humanity's last hope! Godspeed, son!

[Jonnyclueless]

Or the guy was a patsy and he knew it and had plans to travel back to the homeland and elsewhere after things settled down.

Or he was a shape shifter. Or he had a sexual fetish with plane tickets. We can go on and on.

[firecoins]

19 men hijacked 4 planes and crashed them into 3 buildings. 2 of the buildings were skyscrapers that collpased and took out several nearby buildings.

I have yet to see any evidence that contradicts the above story. None whatsoever. There is no evidence that an "inside job" by the US Government had anything to do with the events of 9/11, MIHOP or LIHOP. I have seen tons of evidence for a huge US beurocratic government dropping the ball.

[cisco]

Or the guy was a patsy and he knew it and had plans to travel back to the homeland and elsewhere after things settled down.

It has been widely speculated since day one that 15 out of the 19 hijackers (all but the 4 pilots) might have been "patsies" or otherwise not known they were on a suicide mission. How does this = inside job?

[johnny karate]

Or he was a shape shifter.

Ooh... I like that. Let's do that one. Who do I contact at Truther Headquarters to request a new conspiracy theory? Is there an 800 number I can call?

[cisco]

Ooh... I like that. Let's do that one. Who do I contact at Truther Headquarters to request a new conspiracy theory? Is there an 800 number I can call?
You're going to have to wake up way earlier in the morning to come up with a new conspiracy theory. This one is already out in the wild.

[T.A.M.]

Saudi involvement in 9/11??? no way...never, couldn't of happened...lol

This is a non story for me, as I would bet good money that elements of the saudi govt were involved in funding said attacks. READ THE BOOK "THE LOOMING TOWER".

Of course this in no way proves or even suggests "inside jorb!"

TAM:)

[twinstead]

It has been widely speculated since day one that 15 out of the 19 hijackers (all but the 4 pilots) might have been "patsies" or otherwise not known they were on a suicide mission. How does this = inside job?

Yes, this is a group that straps remote-controlled suicide vests on mentally challenged women and uses them to kill innocent people. It wouldn't surprise me at all that not all of the hijackers knew they were on a suicide mission.

[aggle-rithm]

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.

WHAT?!?

Please tell me you're trying to make a joke.

[funk de fino]

Oh I see. And that's why they left it out of the 9/11 commission report?

What was the purpose of the report?

[funk de fino]

It's not unusual for someone like you to find things irrelevant if they don't particularly support your view on 9/11. That's just business as usual around here.

I was just thinking that some might find it relevant that the so-called fanatical suicide terrorist on a mission from Allah might have had plans for after 9/11.

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.

Stundielicious!

[BenBurch]

First claim is that the 911 commission report was faulty for not saying that one of the hijackers had flights booked for after the attacks?

Why did the commission report need to put this in? Irrelevant nonsense.

You know, it might not have come off. At which time a getaway flight might have been a prudent course of action. And in any case, what do you care that you just wasted several thousand dollars if you are about to embark on a mission that is a suicide mission if it works?

[Undesired Walrus]

There's also the very real possibility that some hijackers weren't actually aware of the "suicide" part of the plan. They may have been kept in the dark about the nature of their sacrifice until the very last moment.

Highly unlikely. Ramzi Binalshibh said all but one had made a matyrdom video.

[Kenose]

The fact that he had post 9/11 flights scheduled is very interesting.

Either he was trying to throw off potential investigators, or for one reason or another he didn't know he was going to die on 9/11.

[cisco]

Highly unlikely. Ramzi Binalshibh said all but one had made a matyrdom video.
They could have been told that the Americans would kill them if they caught them. Pure speculation on my part, though. I'd have to know more before forming a solid opinion.

[gc051360]

It's not unusual for someone like you to find things irrelevant if they don't particularly support your view on 9/11. That's just business as usual around here.

I was just thinking that some might find it relevant that the so-called fanatical suicide terrorist on a mission from Allah might have had plans for after 9/11.

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.

This last line confuses me. It's almost like the "If it weren't for my horse..." thing from Lewis Black's comedy act. Someone found it relevant enough...to leave it out.

About booking a flight after 9-11. I don't know why he'd do that. The "throw people off" thing seems to be the most likely.

When did he purchase the tickets for that flight? I would think the plan wasn't set in stone at that point. Maybe they were considering using that 9-11 flight as a dry run, and a later one as the real one.

Does it really matter? It seems like a non issue.

[firecoins]

beyond speculation, why would this guy booking flight after 9/11 be relevant? He died on 9/11. He was part of the hijacking team. The overwhelming evidence points to this guy being involved.

[gumboot]

I think it's highly unlikely that the Saudi government had anything whatsoever to do with 9/11. The Saudi government were absolutely not friends with Al Qaeda. Not in the least.

Having said that, there are between 7,000 and 25,000 (depending on your source) members of the House of Saud. I suspect it's very likely that some of them had some involvement.

Of course the Saudi Government does not equal the House of Saud.

My brother is a smoker. Does that make me a smoker? Is it evidence that the production companies I work for support and promote smoking?

The answer to these questions are fairly obvious.

[gumboot]

Highly unlikely. Ramzi Binalshibh said all but one had made a matyrdom video.


To be fair that could simply have been a "just in case" scenario as obviously regardless of the type of hijacking undertaken, the prospect of death is good.

[B3LYP/CEP-31G(d)]

$2000 a month? You could earn that working at McDonald's, with a little overtime.

Sometimes I dream of making $2000 a month. I make less as a graduate student.

[Undesired Walrus]

To be fair that could simply have been a "just in case" scenario as obviously regardless of the type of hijacking undertaken, the prospect of death is good.

Possible, but the source down below (About the maid) suggests many of the muscle hijackers knew what they were being asked to do.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p297/ldl21/ujnu.jpg

There was also an email correspondense between Saeed Al-Ghamdi and Ramzi (Allegedly)

The first semester commences in three weeks. Two high schools and two universities. ... This summer will surely be hot ...19 certificates for private education and four exams. Regards to the professor. Goodbye

[LastChild]

This last line confuses me. It's almost like the "If it weren't for my horse..." thing from Lewis Black's comedy act. Someone found it relevant enough...to leave it out.

About booking a flight after 9-11. I don't know why he'd do that. The "throw people off" thing seems to be the most likely.

When did he purchase the tickets for that flight? I would think the plan wasn't set in stone at that point. Maybe they were considering using that 9-11 flight as a dry run, and a later one as the real one.

Does it really matter? It seems like a non issue.

When I say relevent I just mean that if someone wants to cover something up is it usually because it's irrelevent?

I think the fact that they had extra airline tickets touches on a couple of possible things other then maybe some of them might not have been fully in on what was going on. Did they all have to know the plan was to crash the plane? And just how much money did these guys have and where exactly did it all come from? They flew first class didn't most of them? Did they all have multiple flights booked? Were they all first-class? Did even one of them have a job?

[MarkyX]

I have yet to see any evidence that contradicts the above story. None whatsoever. There is no evidence that an "inside job" by the US Government had anything to do with the events of 9/11, MIHOP or LIHOP. I have seen tons of evidence for a huge US beurocratic government dropping the ball.

Wow the 9/11 deniers are contradicting themselves, again?

[funk de fino]

When I say relevent I just mean that if someone wants to cover something up is it usually because it's irrelevent?

I think the fact that they had extra airline tickets touches on a couple of possible things other then maybe some of them might not have been fully in on what was going on. Did they all have to know the plan was to crash the plane? And just how much money did these guys have and where exactly did it all come from? They flew first class didn't most of them? Did they all have multiple flights booked? Were they all first-class? Did even one of them have a job?

Even all the ones that did martyr videos?

Why was it a cover up? It is not mentioned because it was irrelevant to the 911 reportm, that does not make it a cover up.

It would be a cover up if the 911 report stated they did not have tickets for later flights and then it was subsequently found they knew they did.

faulty OP with faulty quotes

[chillzero]

I think that if I was an evil mastermind, who planned to use some minions to fly planes into buildings, I would purchase several tickets for each of them, for several reasons.

To throw off anyone that learns of the plan, so they cannot identify which flight is in danger.

To have backup dates available in case of:
- problems getting someone on board due to customs / problems getting to airport on time
- problems using the original flights due to weather delays / accidents

To allow some replanning, if necessary, because new people come on board, or someone gets ill / killed / arrested

To keep my minions in the dark as to which ones of them will be the ones asked to die that day. I book several people on several flights, knowing that they are all on board in principle. I need to ensure that they don't 'chicken out' on the day when they realise that it's no longer 'in theory' - that their final day has actually arrived. If they have cold feet up there, there are more of them, and they won't admit it to each other, so it's less of a concern.

[aggle-rithm]

When I say relevent I just mean that if someone wants to cover something up is it usually because it's irrelevent?


Here's the problem with your logic:

"If evidence A is covered up, then it will be left out of report B."

"Evidence A was left out of report B."

So far, so good. However, you go from that to this:

"If evidence A is left out of report B, then evidence A is being covered up."

The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

I know you were just asking rhetorical questions, but here are some non-rhetorical answers:


I think the fact that they had extra airline tickets touches on a couple of possible things other then maybe some of them might not have been fully in on what was going on. Did they all have to know the plan was to crash the plane?


I think so. The "muscle" hijackers were trained in close-quarter fighting. How do you think they would react when they found out they were being sacrificed? Wouldn't that throw a monkey wrench into the plan?

And just how much money did these guys have and where exactly did it all come from?


How is it possible that you don't know this? They were funded by Al Qaeda.


They flew first class didn't most of them? Did they all have multiple flights booked? Were they all first-class? Did even one of them have a job?


The ones that needed quick access to the cockpit flew first class. The hijackers needed to be distributed throughout the plane so that they could a) pacify the entire complement of passengers, and b) not raise suspicion as to why so many Middle Easterners were traveling together.

[Undesired Walrus]

All of the hijackers on Flight 11 locked themselves in the cockpit, so I'm pretty sure all of them knew what was going on.

[Jonnyclueless]

I'm pretty sure only 2 locked themselves in, the others guarded the door. There were the pilots, and there were the muscle men.

[Jonnyclueless]

Also, the tickets were probably purchased before the picked an exact date. Maybe someone can reserch that.

[aggle-rithm]

Also, the tickets were probably purchased before the picked an exact date. Maybe someone can reserch that.

I know they did some "dry runs" in preparation for the actual hijacking. Could it be they didn't know which of these "dry runs" was going to be the real thing, until close to 9/11?

[Drudgewire]

I know they did some "dry runs" in preparation for the actual hijacking. Could it be they didn't know which of these "dry runs" was going to be the real thing, until close to 9/11?
That's an incredibly mundane and logical explanation, so needless to say it will be totally ignored by twoofers. ;)

[Undesired Walrus]

I'm pretty sure only 2 locked themselves in, the others guarded the door. There were the pilots, and there were the muscle men.

According to Mrs Ong, nobody could breath up at the front of the plane because of mace, but it does sound like the hijackers all went into the cockpit. The man on the other side of the phone, IIRC, was clearly confused and thought that the pilots had mantained a 'sterile cockpit'.

It is confusing, as she says it is hard to go up to the front of the plane, but at the same time says that they tried to open the door but it was locked.

But one thing we can be somewhat sure of, is that Saeed Al-Ghamdi knew he was going to be killed in this attack, given his email to Ramzi. Hamza Al-Ghamdi and whoever else was on the room seem to have known too, given the maids testimony of substantial amounts of body hair on the bathroom floor. I don't see any other reason for suspecting the others would not have known.

**

As for the future plane booking, remember Atta had complete control of what day the mission was to be carried out on, and had to move it ahead once he felt the case was close to being uncovered (According to Ramzi, when Zacarias M was arrested) . He let Ramzi know on August 29th that the date was to be September 11th.

[njslim]

Why did hijackers book flights after 9/11? Simple, it is called contingency planning.
The 9/11 depended on a number of factors: 1) Hijackers needed rapid access to
cockpit, for this reason booked seats in 1st class, hijackers were seated in configuration
to storm cockpit, while blocking attempted resistence 2) Needed trancontinental flights
leaving from East Coast airports in mid-week (when aircraft had light load) 3) Flights
needed to leave as close to 8 AM as possible to avoid delays which build up as the day
goes on, look what happened to Flight 93 after left 40 minutes late - passengers
found out about earlier hijackings and fought back 4) Aircraft had to be Boeing 757/767
on which had trained

To insure that they could get desired seats in 1st class, at the right time, from the right
airports had to book early. Problem this created was WEATHER. Storms could cause
delays, cancelled flights (just last weekend here on east coast had blizzard which
dumped 8" snow, screwed up airports for days, expecting another storm tonight!)

Hijackers needed clear weather to avoid delays and to visually spot the targets.

As even the most accurate weather forecast is good for only about 5 days and then
about 80-90% accurate - hijackers would needed to book multiple flights and wait for
optimium weather. Once got clear weather for the chosen day could then activate
plan.

[cisco]

What is the significance of the body hair?

[Undesired Walrus]

What is the significance of the body hair?

'Large amounts of body hair' suggests they had finished shaving their bodies for paradise the next morning.

[cisco]

Ahh, I wasn't aware of this practice. Do all Muslims do this?

[Par]

It seems someone found it relevant enough to leave it out.


Extraordinary. Petitio principii at its most plain.

[Par]

When I say relevent I just mean that if someone wants to cover something up is it usually because it's irrelevent?


No one has conceded that it actually was “covered up”.

There is something you should probably bear in mind. When you are charged with compiling a finite overview of an essentially infinite body of information, you will necessarily have to leave some of that information out.

[Undesired Walrus]

Ahh, I wasn't aware of this practice. Do all Muslims do this?

For paradise it is a traditional entry requirement. That's why it is unlikely you will see a suicide bomber with a beard and long hair.

Ok, back to work. You reffers have been distracting me all day!

[firecoins]

Wow the 9/11 deniers are contradicting themselves, again?
who is denying 9/11? what are you talking about? What contadiction? Are you not able to tell the difference between LIHOP and dropping the ball?

[Sizzler]

The ironic thing about this is, there might have been criminal negligence surrounding 9/11. If the trooth movement hadn't polluted the discourse with so much noise and lies about bombs, missiles, thermite, stand down orders, etc, it would probably be a lot easier to get further investigation.

Now anyone with any credibility who tries to look into it is going to be stonewalled as a nutcase. The trooth lied to try to get their way, and shot themselves in the foot in the process!

That, troothers, is a lesson on maturity, honesty, integrity, and civil discourse.

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more at this point.

I can't help but to ask. In an alternative universe without accusations of therm?te, nukes, stand downs, etc, does a new investigation have merit (given current and reasonable criticisms of CR)?

[leftysergeant]

Why did a suicide hijacker book future flights? Was he planning a vacation for himself and his virgins?

And why was that left out of the 9/11 commission report?

If you are doing something illegal, it is always a good idea to look as innocent as possible. Do not attract unwarrented attention prior to the point of no return.

Don't get stopped at an unexpected checkpoint. There is always the possibility that security measures to prevent the discovery of your plans may have been compromised. These were not "ignorant camelk jockeys. They were mostly highly-educated but disaffected middle-class people with a serious grudge against us based on our trade policies and our affronts to their culture, as they saw it. Their shiek was a civil engineer, you know.

Ahmed Ressam got busted because he appeared too nervous at a border crossing point and a Border Patrol officer started looking for stuff.

Having a one-way ticket to some place where you have no residence looks a little suspicious, if someone is looking for a bunch of men of a certain ethnicity who don't seem to have any reason to be where they are.

Just look at all the negative attention they had already drawn to themselves by not measuring up fully to the expectations of their flight instructors.

Is a kamikaze pilot going to worry about spendinmg too much money on an item he will not likely use?

Where is the real oddity here?

[cisco]

I can't help but to ask. In an alternative universe without accusations of therm?te, nukes, stand downs, etc, does a new investigation have merit (given current and reasonable criticisms of CR)?
I'm not sure what CR means so forgive me if I'm unable to address it in this post.

In my humble opinion, I think further investigation into the handling of the event - before and after - as well as the construction of the WTC and possible code violations, is still warranted. At this point the investigators would have to take pains and go out of their way to show that they're not testing Cheney's blood for reptilian DNA, but that shouldn't stop them if their findings will help produce safer buildings and more efficient counterterrorism procedures.

That said, I can't say for sure that this isn't already taking place. I think the most recent Hardfire guest is working for safer buildings. I know NIST is.