Call me a Twoofer I guess.

[Bluekush623]

:rolleyes:
9/11 was another infamous day which shifted humanities consciousness(youtube 9/11 stargate) forever once again,The greatest country in the world took a devastating uppercut no one seen coming.19 Muslim Extremist Terrerists with box cutters, mace and bombs hijacked U.S airplanes and flew them into there own buildings, how humiliating to the defense of the greatest military state the world has ever seen. How was it even possible?

The WTC Tower 1 and 2, The Pentagon and Shanksville, PA were the sights of each attack from the 4 planes, although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target, or so we are told maybe Shanksville was the target. Now were are told we gotta get them Terrerists for attacking our freedom our life and liberty here in our country. But any knowledgeable person shall already know we are a slave in our own country although its still half our fault. So if we don't even have true freedom they cant damage it. With 9/11 we also seen the Patriot Act signed into law, which is the beginning for a 1984 Orwellian Military Police state. It begins to strip our freedom for protection, thats just blatantly contradictory if were supposed to live in America.

I also find it ironic if they are attacking our freedom why did they hit The WORLD TRADE CENTER, not the Statue of Liberty or any other symbolic symbol of freedom. They hit the money and military, which is the mother and father for a war. I'm not expert engineer or nothing and what really brought down the towers imo is a waste of time and energy focusing on what will never be known till someone fesses up. Although imo there are many anomalies from which the actual 9/11 commission report gives us, because of the controlled demolition theory. First stated over and over 3..yes 3 buildings were the first Steel structures too ever collapse from fire, fuel and direct impact on 9/11, although The WTC complex building 7 later fell after 5 o'clock due too again structural failure from fires and falling debris (although its a pancake collapse so how could falling debris hit WTC7?)during the previous collapses of tower 1 and 2, since it wasn't it by a plane.

All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints, and all 3 buildings were smoldering piles of concrete and steel from 2 airplanes, but shouldn't all 3 collapse sites be virtually be different in comparisons since there all a pancake?Then we get a hole at Shanksville missing the 10,000 gallons of jet fuel raging inferno that can melt steel since a engine or pot has never melted.Were told the tower pancaked down but wheres the stacked floors, could ever bolt and joint just snap at once, its a 100+ foot
building and all thats left is dust and rubble, including tower 7.Also we see "squibs" all over the towers above and below the hit mark from the planes, from my understanding only air pressure blasts from the pancake could happen below the hit mark while its falling but this clearly isn't the case.

Check out 9/11eyewitnesses Transmission Tower leads collapse short for squibs above hit mark.

Then too mention the pentagon, they don't wanna release a single video from over 70+ survelliance cameras in the area which can clearly show a plane.Although whatever plane hit the pentagon it was demolished on impact most likely due to the reinforced concrete and the weakness of planes, then also how did the wall just fall into its own footprint, i see no reason why it should have fell.

But again these are all the little arguments and i could think of many more which will go no where.But what happens when you follow the money trail? someone had to fund them. the Federal Government(CIA, DEA, IRS) funds/promotes the extremist terrorists/Drug dealers for there own agenda. How come the War on Drugs IS never ever ever talked about anymore.
its all about them terrerists. All they've done is change the name of the criminal and we believe then follow. Remember Iron-Contra it almost exposed EVERYTHING if you get the CIA smuggling coke, the train might not stop. Were trying to fight a war over in the Middle-east just like 20-30 years ago, while still waging a War at home on our own people. Wheres the war on war,poverty, hunger, depression, addiction, greed, loneliness. We could be doing alot more useful **** with our time, then throwing people in cages like animals and expecting them not to fall into the trap when we've placed it there for them.

Too follow the "money trail" I feel Who killed John Oneil and don't brush it of since its a "fictional" film dealing with facts, is a vital film. Ty Rauber one of creators promotes the film as "evidence" and also whistle blower Andrew Grove gets into alot of the same companies.I cant name names yet or back there info 100%, but as i continue my learning process ill get better and learn

Then forcing our foreign policy on other countries when all were doing is pimp slapping them around for there natural resources. What would you do if China or someone invaded America and started setting up bases and stealing our wealth, wed fight back too and be labeled extremists. Were living in a war on consciousness and responsibility. The governments have down a 180 from just protecting our already god given rights, they now create, establish and enforce laws, Its a ***** joke lol and thats how they see it, because each individual hasn't woken up.


Like Katt Williams said "tell me what the Iraqi uniform look like? Dont worry Ill wait... Because you aint never seen that *****,we aint killing they army we killing them, we killing ***** in sweatpants, tank tops, flip flops and a cowboy hat"

Corruption is the real conspiracy not something that can never happen and is impossible, which has been the overall definition in the collective conscious for a while now. because a conspiracy only involves 2 people doing business.

[Slayhamlet]

TL : DR

Seriously, your post is unintelligible.

[Arus808]

wow another 100% error filled post by a troofer.

[Bluekush623]

awesome.

[Arus808]

you may want to check the sticky threads before replying again. all that you posted in your opening post, have been dealt with numerous times here. You are simply parroting things that were claimed in 2002-2003. Its been 5 years since they first appeared. Why are you stuck in a time warp?


here is a start:
your absurd statement of 19 hijackers with "box cutters" is factually wrong. You may want to start with the transcripts of the phone calls made by passengers aboard those planes, will shed light on why you are wrong.

[Bluekush623]

funny how I said There anomalies which we will never know the answers too, unless yur claiming The 9/11 commission report is 100% true. And i dont see how im parroting the same claims when those anomalies were personally thought of by myself, maybe some of us think alike, but w/e.
Ive tried to read as much of the stickies as possible also. Unless if theres info on The Drug Trade in there i missed, could you point the way.

[Brainache]

Welcome BlueKush, I hope your stay here is a happy and a fruitful one.

You look like you are keen to learn about what happened on 9/11/01 in the US.

I hope you will use your time here wisely.

Don't follow the rabbit.

:hypnodisk:bunpan:hypnodisk

[Bluekush623]

thank you, especially for a reasonable post.

[Arus808]

funny how I said There anomalies which we will never know the answers too
Yet you can't point them out , or how these "little" anomalies prove "inside job"

unless your claiming The 9/11 commission report is 100% true.

I didn't and no one here does. However, you are proving that you dont understand the purpose of the report in the first place.

Please read the report first. If you have questions, please come back after you've read the report and we will point you in the right directions for the answers you seek.

And of course, realize that the report was finished in 2005. In the time since, more facts have come to realization, and certain aspects of the report was affected; but not so much that the entire report had to be "thrown" away.



And i dont see how im parroting the same claims when those anomalies were personally thought of by myself, maybe some of us think alike, but w/e.Your "anomalies" are not anomalies at all. They are claims made by those who have cherry picked the evidence and decided to make them out as anomalies. When they aren't.

that's why I stated, please provide a list of anomalies (that haven't been posted here before and dealt with) and why they would prove the "official" story wrong (there is no "official" story btw)


Ive tried to read as much of the stickies as possible also. Unless if theres info on The Drug Trade in there i missed, could you point the way.what does the Drug trade have to do with 911?

You might best to start a different thread on every issue you want to speak about. This one we'll deal with your misunderstanding about 911.

Start another thread about your opinions regarding foreign policy (that belongs in the political forum)

and start another thread about the drug trade (which also belongs in the political forum)

[Slayhamlet]

To be blunt, your facile political worldview and your uninformed parroting of "9/11 Truth" talking points just isn't all that interesting to us. Perhaps it didn't occur to you in heat of your fervid indignation, but we've read this same crap a thousand times before: It's not new; it's not interesting. On top of that it's poorly written, lacks any formulation, and does not even feign to provide evidence or to put forth a persuasive argument. If I wanted to read this garbage I'd have gone to Prison Planet where the writing is at least coherent, even if the arguments are not.

I'm afraid the time you spend here, if the OP is anything to judge you powers of research and critical thinking by, will neither be fruitful to us nor yourself. In this regard I must politely disagree with Brainache.

[Redtail]

:rolleyes:
9/11 was another infamous day which shifted humanity consciousness(youtube 9/11 stargate) forever once again,The greatest country in the world took a devastating uppercut no one seen coming.19 Muslim Extremist Terrerists with box cutters hijacked U.S airplanes and flew them into there own buildings, how humiliating to the defense of the greatest military state the world has ever seen.

Yeah, name any great military state and I'll show you where they got cracked in the proverbial jaw.

How was it even possible? The WTC Tower 1 and 2, The Pentagon and Shanksville, PA were the sights of each attack from the 4 planes, although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target, or so we are told maybe Shanksville was the target.... Why?

Now were are told we gotta get them Terrerists for attacking our freedom our life and liberty here in our country. But any knowledgeable person shall already know we are a slave in our own country although its still half our fault. So if we dont even have true freedom they cant damage it.

No. Some of my ancestors were slaves. (Some of the White ones were "indentured servants".) Let's look at what I have that they didn't.
I own my own house.
I own land in 3 states.
I can vote.
I had the choice to decided for myself how far my education went. (I chose MFA)
I can marry (and am marrying) whom I choose.
I can freely travel anywhere in the US.
I speak up about something being wrong without people killing me and getting away with it because they were "justified".
I can... hell, if you don't get it by now...


With 9/11 we seen the Patriot Act signed into law, which is the beginning for a 1984 Orwellian Military Police state. It begins to strip our freedom for protection, thats just blatantly contradictory if were supposed to live in America.
I missed the part where anyone who speaks out against the government gets... are you still there?:boxedin:

I also find it ironic if they are attacking our freedom why did they hit The WORLD TRADE CENTER, not the Statue of Liberty or any other symbolic symbol of freedom. They hit the money and military, which is the mother and father for a war.

Yeah, Money and Military is why we have the freedom. Not saying that's how it should be but is there another "super power" in history that didn't have the money and military?

Im not expert engineer or nothing and what really brought down the towers imo is a waste of time and energy focusing on what will never be known till someone fesses up. Although imo there are many anomalies from which the actual 9/11 commission report gives us, because of the controlled demolition theory.

Heeeeere we go.

First stated over and over 3..yes 3 buildings were the first Steel structures too ever collapse from fire, fuel and direct impact on 9/11,

What other buildings in history ever suffered from fire, fuel, and direct impact?

although The WTC complex building 7 later fell after 5 o'clock due too again structural failure from fires and falling debris (although its a pancake collapse so how could falling debris hit WTC7?)during the previous collapses of tower 1 and 2, since it wasn't it by a plane.

I guess you don't see the debris spilling over the sides in th collapse of 1 & 2?

All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints, and all 3 buildings were smoldering piles of concrete and steel from 2 airplanes, but shouldnt all 3 collapse sites be virtually be different in comparisons since there all a pancake?

They're all pancake? Meh, no matter. Did the Penthouse of 7 fall at "freefallish" speed?

Then we get a hole at Shanksville missing the 10,000 gallons of jet fuel raging inferno that can melt steel since a engine or pot has never melted.

What would happen if you dug a 2 ft hole in your back yard, filled it with gas, and set the gas on fire? Would there still be a puddle of gas there? How does one make an engine or pot if they don't melt?

Were told the tower pancaked down but wheres the stacked floors, could ever bolt and joint just snap at once, its a 100+ foot
building and all thats left is dust and rubble, including tower 7.

We are?

Also we see "squibs" all over the towers above and below the hit mark from the planes, from my understanding only air pressure blasts from the pancake could happen below the hit mark while its falling but this clearly isn't the case.

You don't really know what a squib is do you?

Check out 9/11eyewitnesses Transmission Tower leads collapse short for squibs above hit mark.

I take that as a no.

Then too mention the pentagon, they don't wanna release a single video from over 70+ survelliance cameras in the area which can clearly show a plane.Although whatever plane hit the pentagon it was demolished on impact most likely due to the reinforced concrete and the weakness of planes, then how did the wall just fall into its own footprint, i see no reason why it should have fell.

Evidence of 70+ cameras? Also, what makes you think a plane is weak?

But again these are all the little arguments and i could think of many more which will go no where.But what happens when you follow the money trail? someone had to fund them. the Federal Government(CIA, DEA, IRS) funds/promotes the extremist terrorists/Drug dealers for there own agenda.

How much is Binladen worth? Something like half a billion?

How come the War on Drugs IS never ever ever talked about anymore.
its all about them terrerists.

You missed the commercials about buying drugs = supporting terrorists didn't you?

All they've done is change the name of the criminal and we believe then follow. Remember Iron-Contra it almost exposed EVERYTHING if you get the CIA smuggling coke, the train might not stop.

Yeah people got nailed for Iran contra.

Were trying to fight a war over in the Middle-east just like 20-30 years ago,

I was in Desert Storm when I was 10 or 15!?!??!?!?! Damn republicans!

while still waging a War at home on our own people. Wheres the war on war,poverty, hunger, depression, addiction, greed, loneliness.

War on Poverty and Hunger. Still on going. War on Depression and Addiction. That's a personal battle that people can help with but the greatest strides must be made by the individual. War on greed. Why is there a war on greed? War on loneliness. Get off the computer and make frindes you can invite over to your house.

We could be doing alot more useful **** with our time, then throwing people in cages like animals and expecting them not to fall into the trap when weve placed it there for them.


So there should be no jails?


Too follow the "money trail" I feel Who killed John Oneil and dont brush it of since its a "fictional" film dealing with facts, is a vital film. Ty Rauber one of creators promotes the film as "evidence" and also whistle blower Andrew Grove gets into alot of the same companies.I cant name names yet or back there info 100%, but as i continue my learning process ill get better and learn


I'm a college professor. Learning is fairly easy. Thinking is the hard part.

Then forcing our foreign policy on other countries when all were doing is pimp slapping them around for there natural resources. What would you do if China or someone invaded America and started setting up bases and stealing our wealth, wed fight back too and be labeled extremists. Were living in a war on consciousness and responsibility. The governments have down a 180 from just protecting our already god given rights, they now create, establish and enforce laws, Its a ***** joke lol and thats how they see it, because each individual hasnt woken up.

So the government shouldn't create, establish and enforce laws? Why are you waiting for each individual to wake up?


Like Katt Williams said "tell me what the Iraqi uniform look like? Dont worry Ill wait... Because you aint never seen that *****,we aint killing they army we killing them, we killing ***** in sweatpants, tank tops, flip flops and a cowboy hat"


...:confused:http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif
Corruption is the real conspiracy not something that can never happen and is impossible, which has been the overall definition in the collective conscious for a while now. because a conspiracy only involves 2 people doing business.


Who's saying a conspiracy is impossible?

[Bluekush623]

Yet you can't point them out , or how these "little" anomalies prove "inside job"



I didn't and no one here does. However, you are proving that you dont understand the purpose of the report in the first place.


Please read the report first. If you have questions, please come back after you've read the report and we will point you in the right directions for the answers you seek.

And of course, realize that the report was finished in 2005. In the time since, more facts have come to realization, and certain aspects of the report was affected; but not so much that the entire report had to be "thrown" away.

I never claimed inside job, and never said anyone else did, or that the anomalies where prove of an inside job.The anomalies i sighted were due to the fact of a controlled demolition theory and instances where the events looked, or produced something similar to a CD. From my knowledge the report should be to inform as much possible that happened on 9/11 and if its provided by the government it better be truth or it shouldnt be published at all. You might want to blame the media on the boxcutters and official truth aspects.


Your "anomalies" are not anomalies at all. They are claims made by those who have cherry picked the evidence and decided to make them out as anomalies. When they aren't.

I aint cherry pick nothing sometimes a timeline of anomalies such as the collapse of the WTC towers happens.Step.1 Hit by planes, other buildings have too and survived. Step 2. a fire rages on for not longer then 2 hours other building have survived too. Step 3. Squibs appear from the all 3 collapsing towers. Step 4. All thats left is dust and rubble.

But again im not claiming these anomalies, just that they are there.

And since im not a physics guy can someone point me too where it shows a pancake collapse could send debris into Tower 7. Or maybe my idea of a pancake collapse is wrong if the floors are supposed to stack and not complete rubble.

that's why I stated, please provide a list of anomalies (that haven't been posted here before and dealt with) and why they would prove the "official" story wrong (there is no "official" story btw)


Im not here to nit pick over thousands of papers from scientists who debunk and are for a CD. Im no engineer/physicist also so most of it wont make since.But there is a problem with our government and war and 9/11 is interwoven right into it.


[QUOTE]
what does the Drug trade have to do with 911?

You might best to start a different thread on every issue you want to speak about. This one we'll deal with your misunderstanding about 911.

Start another thread about your opinions regarding foreign policy (that belongs in the political forum)

and start another thread about the drug trade (which also belongs in the political forum)



Well if you haven't watch Who killed John Oneil or heard Andrew Grove(9/11 syncronocity) then by all means google them. I have no misunderstanding of 9/11, I know Terrorists(Government or Extremists) attacked America.Im not a Bush did-it or hater, hes a good Business man(puppet) plain and simple . I think id like to keep it all in one thread since it all about the same thing, Conspiracy people doing business(war, drug trade, arms trade etc) which is concealed but then they also like to announce 60billion dollar arms sales sometimes, since they are legit corporations i mean countries. but its all Organized Crime which our government has come to love.

[Walter Ego]

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_2284547cd06e093021.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11115)

[Bluekush623]

Yeah, name any great military state and I'll show you where they got cracked in the proverbial jaw.


Yup or time will come when the great America falls, or will it? We dont have to follow history
... Why?

Part of the "Conspiracy, Inside job", for whatever psychological effects.


No. Some of my ancestors were slaves. (Some of the White ones were "indentured servants".) Let's look at what I have that they didn't.
I own my own house.
I own land in 3 states.
I can vote.
I had the choice to decided for myself how far my education went. (I chose MFA)
I can marry (and am marrying) whom I choose.
I can freely travel anywhere in the US.
I speak up about something being wrong without people killing me and getting away with it because they were "justified".
I can... hell, if you don't get it by now...

Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government. We are now slaves for the corporation. Although Thinkfree.ca is canadian based we all basically have the same laws, check em out on how to retain your true sovereignty.

I missed the part where anyone who speaks out against the government gets... are you still there?:boxedin:

But it is funny how alot of the greats tragically get shot or die. Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X,Bobby Kennedy, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Wellstone, Bill Copper and others



Yeah, Money and Military is why we have the freedom. Not saying that's how it should be but is there another "super power" in history that didn't have the money and military?

exactly our fault, when are we gunna step up.



Heeeeere we go.



What other buildings in history ever suffered from fire, fuel, and direct impact?

Empire State for one, and just google its happened before, Cory Lidle flew his plane into a building, Not saying it was at that magnitude of 9/11 but still it happened.But WTC 7 is the first to fall from Fire, some damages and no fuel.



I guess you don't see the debris spilling over the sides in th collapse of 1 & 2?



They're all pancake? Meh, no matter. Did the Penthouse of 7 fall at "freefallish" speed?


Thats what i mean how can spilling/falling/pancaking debris shoot thousand pound steel pieces into WTC 7 enough for it too collapse with the fires.

What would happen if you dug a 2 ft hole in your back yard, filled it with gas, and set the gas on fire? Would there still be a puddle of gas there? How does one make an engine or pot if they don't melt?

But shanksvillie isnt a cleanly dug hole wheres the splashes of burning fuel starting fires. nice comeback, with very hot fires, which i guess
wtc got hot enough for too melt all the thousands of pounds of steel it had. But again collapse anomalies, well never know for sure.


We are?


Again blame the media, ever citizen shouldnt have to read the report to know what happened.


You don't really know what a squib is do you?

Guess not, i call it a dust cloud that pops out a building when its being destroyed.



I take that as a no.

Guess those are normal dust clouds.



Evidence of 70+ cameras? Also, what makes you think a plane is weak?

Ive heard there are 70ish cameras surrounding the pentagons wall which was hit, well there made from aluminum, the shanksville plane was destroyed after impact and they cant be too ***** heavy to fly its called aerodynamics.

Please do not use profanity, nor attempt to mask it incorrectly for the public section of the forum. Please re-read your Membership Agreement Rule 10.



How much is Binladen worth? Something like half a billion?

no clue



You missed the commercials about buying drugs = supporting terrorists didn't you?
Nope seen it, but the patsy terrorists arent the main man. I also hope you dont believe in the war on drugs, can you see a conspiracy get any worse then this one.


Yeah people got nailed for Iran contra.



I was in Desert Storm when I was 10 or 15!?!??!?!?! Damn republicans!



War on Poverty and Hunger. Still on going. War on Depression and Addiction. That's a personal battle that people can help with but the greatest strides must be made by the individual. War on greed. Why is there a war on greed? War on loneliness. Get off the computer and make frindes you can invite over to your house.


You Misread we need war on poverty, hunger, depression, addiction, greed , loneliness. You say some are personal, but how personal are they when more then one person has it.


So there should be no jails?

Not where we throw in non criminal drug offenders which supply the system.



I'm a college professor. Learning is fairly easy. Thinking is the hard part.

Congrats, Not always.

So the government shouldn't create, establish and enforce laws? Why are you waiting for each individual to wake up?

Hell no, they are there to PROTECT or god given rights. plain and simple. So they ask questions and learn for themself.






Who's saying a conspiracy is impossible?


Im saying the definition of conspiracy has drifted away from it original meaning in the mainstream and media culture. Say conspiracy and u think what? 9/11, JfK, Roswell, etc. There tremendously important events and it either happened like the news says or its a conspiracy which we all no its not because it cant be true our government would never lie.

[Sword_Of_Truth]

I can marry (and am marrying) whom I choose.


Congratulations, Redtail.

Best of luck to you and the bride. :)

[Architect]

Bluekush

Welcome to the forums.

The technical issues you alude to have been discussed at length elsewhere on the site and the Truth community has been unable to substantiate their case. If you do wish to discuss these then please feel free to start a specific thread, but only after you have ensured that we've not already dealt with the areas you are concerned about.

[Architect]

I can marry (and am marrying) whom I choose.



I dunno. I used to think the same thing but Monica Bellucci's solicitors and the judge told me that she had to agree too......

:mad:

[I Am He]

BlueKush623, Do happen to know what year this is?? In case it slipped buy you, it happens to be 2008 not the era that you think you're are living in. I just wanted to clue you in, just in case you may have forgotten for some reason or other.


I Am He

[Dave Rogers]

I'd like to be charitable to a new poster, who may have some valid points to make amidst the torrent of long-debunked truther nonsense, but quite frankly I'm sick of it. This is a typically ill-informed and arrogant truther, who thinks he can come in here and lecture us on What Really Happened on the basis of having watched a couple of YouTube videos and had a literate friend read him a couple of passages from Griffin. So instead, I'm going to treat this thread as what it really is, the Stundie motherlode.

Firstly, never mind the Twin Towers or the Pentagon; if you really want to get the attention of the world's media, attack an empty field in Pennsylvania.

The WTC Tower 1 and 2, The Pentagon and Shanksville, PA were the sights of each attack from the 4 planes, although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target, or so we are told maybe Shanksville was the target.

A sense of proportion? What's that?

But any knowledgeable person shall already know we are a slave in our own country although its still half our fault.

Investigate 9-11, but not to the point of actually investigating 9-11.

I'm not expert engineer or nothing and what really brought down the towers imo is a waste of time and energy focusing on what will never be known till someone fesses up. Although imo there are many anomalies from which the actual 9/11 commission report gives us, because of the controlled demolition theory.

Nothing hit WTC7. What are you going to believe, the misinterpretations of a self-confessed non-engineer or your own lying eyes?

The WTC complex building 7 later fell after 5 o'clock due too again structural failure from fires and falling debris (although its a pancake collapse so how could falling debris hit WTC7?)during the previous collapses of tower 1 and 2, since it wasn't it by a plane.

When the same causes produce the same effects, it's a smoking gun.

All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints, and all 3 buildings were smoldering piles of concrete and steel from 2 airplanes, but shouldn't all 3 collapse sites be virtually be different in comparisons since there all a pancake?

Even when there's an explanation for "anomalies", it must be wrong for some mysterious reason that should be obvious to the untrained eye.

from my understanding only air pressure blasts from the pancake could happen below the hit mark while its falling but this clearly isn't the case.

The anomalies are all explained by the 9-11 Commission Report, but that would just be too simple, wouldn't it?

funny how I said There anomalies which we will never know the answers too, unless yur claiming The 9/11 commission report is 100% true.

And despite the fact that everything in these posts has been recycled ad nauseam by the truth movement and everyone on this forum has seen every one of them a hundred times over, I thought of them all by myself! I did! Really!

And i dont see how im parroting the same claims when those anomalies were personally thought of by myself, maybe some of us think alike, but w/e.

Controlled demolition is an outside job!

I never claimed inside job, and never said anyone else did, or that the anomalies where prove of an inside job.The anomalies i sighted were due to the fact of a controlled demolition theory and instances where the events looked, or produced something similar to a CD.

Anomalies aren't anomalies, they're just anomalies, and I'm not claiming they are, just claiming they are.

I aint cherry pick nothing sometimes a timeline of anomalies such as the collapse of the WTC towers happens.Step.1 Hit by planes, other buildings have too and survived. Step 2. a fire rages on for not longer then 2 hours other building have survived too. Step 3. Squibs appear from the all 3 collapsing towers. Step 4. All thats left is dust and rubble.

But again im not claiming these anomalies, just that they are there.

Government, slavery, what's the difference?

Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government.

Planes hitting buildings behave independently of the type of building or the type of plane.

Empire State for one, and just google its happened before, Cory Lidle flew his plane into a building, Not saying it was at that magnitude of 9/11 but still it happened.

And finally: I can't be bothered to find things out for myself, so why isn't the media telling me everything I need to know?

Again blame the media, ever citizen shouldnt have to read the report to know what happened.

Some people think the Stundies are beneath the dignity of this forum, and at times that's true, but in cases like this they are the only sensible response. Bluekush, I ought to be amazed that you would have the nerve to join a forum devoted to critical thinking in order to spew out a stream of consciousness in which you make it clear that you accept uncritically every insane idea that aligns with your uninformed world view and claim it as your own. Sadly, I'm not amazed at all, because it happens all too often. There's an enormous amount you could learn here from a group of very intelligent people who have researched some major historical events in impressive detail, but until you learn to think, there's really no point.

Dave

[Unsecured Coins]

I dunno. I used to think the same thing but Monica Bellucci's solicitors and the judge told me that she had to agree too......

:mad:

Golden Guffaw Winnar

[Open Blinded]

You Misread we need war on poverty, hunger, depression, addiction, greed , loneliness. You say some are personal, but how personal are they when more then one person has it.

Your right, addiction is not a personal problem since more than one person ever has been affected by it.

I guess the real question is, do personal problems exist? Maybe DNA or fingerprints.

[The Doc]

Bluekush623,

Sit down, put on a pot of coffee, and get reading. You're six years behind the rest of us. Good luck with your research.

Doc.

[uk_dave]

Bluekush623,

Sit down, put on a pot of coffee, and get reading. You're six years behind the rest of us. Good luck with your research.

Doc.

I'm not sure coffee is such a good idea at that age.

[Drudgewire]

With 9/11 we also seen the Patriot Act signed into law, which is the beginning for a 1984 Orwellian Military Police state.
Forget the NIST report, I'm betting you never read 1984.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

I aint cherry pick nothing sometimes a timeline of anomalies such as the collapse of the WTC towers happens.Step.1 Hit by planes, other buildings have too and survived. Step 2. a fire rages on for not longer then 2 hours other building have survived too. Step 3. Squibs appear from the all 3 collapsing towers. Step 4. All thats left is dust and rubble.

As Redtail pointed out, you really don't know what a squib is do you? I see you really couldn't have done any research and are just parroting other idiots. Do some original work, come up with something on your own!

LLH

[aggle-rithm]

Yeah, name any great military state and I'll show you where they got cracked in the proverbial jaw.



What was it that Herman Goering said? "If a single bomb falls on Berlin, I'll change my name to Schmidt", or something like that.

Sixty-five years later, they're STILL digging up bombs in Berlin.

[aggle-rithm]

I never claimed inside job, and never said anyone else did, or that the anomalies where prove of an inside job.

Of course. The mark of a real troofer: Lacking the intellectual courage to admit what he believes.

A troofer can always claim, "I never said that!" because he never actually makes any claims. He simply throws inferences out there in hopes that something will stick.

Been there, done that.

PS: For your own sake, please learn the difference between the words "sight", "site", and "cite". It will save you a lot of embarrassment.

Unless, of course, you are completely lacking in shame. We've seen that before, too.

[CHF]

Free fall speed into their own footprints...first steel builings ever to collapse...70 cameras at the Pentagon...what about the Empire State Building?...squibs...

Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere...

[Dave Rogers]

Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

It's all new. He thought it up all by his lonesome.

Not that he's claiming anything, though.

Dave

[kookbreaker]

Free fall speed into their own footprints...first steel builings ever to collapse...70 cameras at the Pentagon...what about the Empire State Building?...squibs...

Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere...

Yup:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g157/kookbreaker/its-like-an-assembly-line-really.png

[Myriad]

Call me a Twoofer I guess.


I don't call people Twoofers. Just a matter of personal taste; I'm sure others will be glad to oblige.

But you're correct, you do guess.

The thing I find surprising is that you are acting as if you think your guesses would be of any interest to people who have studied the actual answers.

I don't know anything about botany, but I think a tree in my back yard is an anomaly, because it has funny-looking bark. Should we have a long discussion in which I try to convince you how anomalous it is, or would you recommend I just ask someone who can tell one kind of tree from another?

Respectfully,
Myriad

[fagin]

But it is funny how alot of the greats tragically get shot or die. Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X,Bobby Kennedy, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Wellstone, Bill Copper and others

Famous people die or are killed? Funny that doesn't happen to non famous people as well.
And the connection between Lincoln and Hendrix is?

[NobbyNobbs]

You are simply parroting things that were claimed in 2002-2003. Its been 5 years since they first appeared.


Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.


Actually, he may have come up with something new...

although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target, or so we are told maybe Shanksville was the target.


This is the first time I've heard the theory that an empty field in Pennsylvania would make a good terrorist target. What's especially amusing is that Bluekush questions the choice of WTC1 and 2, wondering why not the Statue of Liberty instead, but has no problem accepting the possibility that killing a few rabbits and a wood thrush in rural PA by dive-bombing an airliner onto them is a good strategical move.


The anomalies i sighted were due to the fact of a controlled demolition theory and instances where the events looked, or produced something similar to a CD.

Bluekush, I hate to tell you this, but the fact that there are those out there with their own theories does not create an anomaly. Just so you know, an anomaly is an incongruity or inconsistency, not a theory.

There are wackos out there who have a theory that the Earth is flat. This does not mean there is an anomaly with the current measurement of the curvature of the Earth. In fact, the only thing it means is that there are wackos out there who think the Earth is flat.

[uk_dave]

And the connection between Lincoln and Hendrix is?

Both poisoned by the same person.

[Disbelief]

And the connection between Lincoln and Hendrix is?

Both could rock out the star spangled banner on the guitar? Or maybe they both had a secretary named Kennedy?

[maccy]

Hi Bluekush623,

I'll just post this one reply to you. If you're actually interested in the truth, I suggest you do some research, starting here:

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/home

If you're too lazy to study the links on that site, I'd suggest you aren't a truthseeker, just a fantasist.

Regarding drugs (and Afghanistan in particular) here are a few links you may want to follow:

Why invade Afghanistan if not to deal with Al Qaeda?

1. Afghan Pipeline
A summary post by me, quoting other posters as well: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2258483#post2258483
An update to the summary:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2258512#post2258512
The article that Gumboot quotes (his link is now broken):
http://www.bostonphoenix.com/boston/news_features/other_stories/multi-page/documents/02388257.htm

2. Drugs, the CIA and Afghanistan
Three posts:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2258533#post2258533
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2258670#post2258670
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2260066#post2260066


For stuff about "following the money" here are a couple of threads:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=69261
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70904

While you're thinking about "following the money" you might also ponder the idea that most conspiracy memes are based on movies and TV and consider what that tells you about the average conspiracist's grip on reality.

While reading over these threads, you'll notice that they're more than year old and deal with stuff that was getting old even then. This may lead you to consider the idea that truthseekers are nothing more than fantasists who get a thrill from feeling that they are oppressed and that they have secret knowledge denied to the masses and, because of this, have no interest in doing anything about the supposed cause of their oppression (beyond parading their fantasies on the Internet). This idea, which I'm sure you'll refuse to acknowledge, isn't even new. Way back when, one of your predecessors, 28th Kingdom, was studiously ignoring me when I said this:

28K you're obviously not making much progress in convincing people here, but I don't understand why you're even trying. If what you're saying is, as you say, both obvious and scientific why aren't you making an effort to get this information out to the world? The world is has many media outlets, technical journals and engineering departments - why not send your information to people involved with these? If you don't manage to get the word out this way, I would say that you are ultimately insignificant.

Remember, this isn't about us convincing you, it's about you convincing the world. At the moment, the world says you are wrong. What are you going to do to change its mind?

There are lots and lots of people you can contact about this, here are a few suggestions of places you might want to start:

science magazines:

http://www.ejse.org/EdBoard.htm
http://www.pubs.asce.org/journals/st.html
http://www.sciam.com/
http://research.yale.edu/ysm/
http://www.sciencemag.org/
http://www.nature.com/nature/index.html
http://www.stanford.edu/~dgermain/index.htm (http://www.stanford.edu/%7Edgermain/index.htm)
http://www.newscientist.com/home.ns
http://www.popsci.com/popsci/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/

Demolition Publications

http://www.implosionworld.com/

Fire Engineering Magazine:

http://fe.pennnet.com/

Architecture Magazines:

http://www.arplus.com/home.htm
http://www.architectmagazine.com/
http://architectstore.com/magazine.html

Engineering Departments

http://www.shef.ac.uk/civil/
http://www.eng.cam.ac.uk/
http://www.eng.ox.ac.uk/
http://www.engg.le.ac.uk/
http://www.eng.abdn.ac.uk/
http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/esbe/about/depeng.shtml
http://www.liv.ac.uk/engdept/
http://www.swan.ac.uk/engineering/
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/civileng/

http://www.enfp.umd.edu/
http://www.ce.ksu.edu/
http://www.matsceng.ohio-state.edu/
http://www.ce.jhu.edu/
http://ase.tufts.edu/cee/
http://www.ce.clemson.edu/
http://www.ecs.umass.edu/cee/
http://cee.mit.edu/
http://www.ce.berkeley.edu/

Science Correspondents of Media outlets:

http://www.cnn.com/
http://www.nytimes.com/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/
http://english.aljazeera.net/HomePage

There's a whole list of newspapers around the world here:

http://www.onlinenewspapers.com/

If you are actually going to do something about this great crime that you're sure has happened, perhaps you could let us know on this thread:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=105931

Beyond being interested in any thing you post there, I won't engage you further as, to be honest, you don't matter in the slightest.

All the best,

Maccy

Edited to Add:

PS Regarding box cutters: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=59410

[Deus Ex Machina]

hey Blue Kush - is English not your first language?

[Loss Leader]

For the convenience of other readers, I have deleted everything from Bluekush623's OP that is incorrect. I've given him the benefit of the doubt on the spelling errors.

9/11 was another infamous day which shifted humanities consciousness
19 Muslim Extremist Terrerists with box cutters, mace ... hijacked U.S airplanes and flew them into there own buildings, how humiliating

The WTC Tower 1 and 2, The Pentagon and Shanksville, PA were the sights of each attack from the 4 planes, although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target,

Now were are told we gotta get them Terrerists for attacking our freedom our life and liberty here in our country.

if we don't even have true freedom they cant damage it.

I also find it ironic if they are attacking our freedom why did they hit The WORLD TRADE CENTER, not the Statue of Liberty or any other symbolic symbol of freedom. They hit the money and military, which is the mother and father for a war. (It's true that he finds it ironic.)

Although imo there are many anomalies from which the actual 9/11 commission report gives us, because of the controlled demolition theory.

although The WTC complex building 7 later fell after 5 o'clock due too again structural failure from fires and falling debris during the previous collapses of tower 1 and 2, since it wasn't it by a plane.

all 3 buildings were smoldering piles of concrete and steel from 2 airplanes,

all thats left is dust and rubble, including tower 7.

Although whatever plane hit the pentagon it was demolished on impact most likely due to the reinforced concrete and the weakness of planes,

i see no reason why it should have fell.

But again these are all the little arguments and i could think of many more which will go no where.

someone had to fund them.

We could be doing alot more useful **** with our time, then throwing people in cages like animals

I cant name names yet or back there info 100%,

What would you do if China or someone invaded America and started setting up bases and stealing our wealth, wed fight back too and be labeled extremists.

Like Katt Williams said "tell me what the Iraqi uniform look like? Dont worry Ill wait... Because you aint never seen that *****,we aint killing they army we killing them, we killing ***** in sweatpants, tank tops, flip flops and a cowboy hat" (It may be true that Katt Williams said this.)

[Walter Ego]

Free fall speed into their own footprints...first steel builings ever to collapse...70 cameras at the Pentagon...what about the Empire State Building?...squibs...

Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere...


I know what you mean. I conversed for about an hour and a half with three truthers in Savannah and heard the same litany I’ve heard over and over on the internet. What’s galling is hearing the same easily disproved canards repeated like gospel. These people never check anything out so see if it’s factual. So much for ‘truth.’

[milesalpha]

Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government. We are now slaves for the corporation. Although Thinkfree.ca is canadian based we all basically have the same laws, check em out on how to retain your true sovereignty.

I need some help from the younger folks to translate this, my teenese is getting pretty rusty. Most of his post was silly but this paragraph is just incomprehensible, anyone figure out what the point is? Now I know of some of the Maritime/Admiralty laws, he could be a little more specific since such laws have existed for centuries across a spectrum of nations. Common law has nothing to do with God's law, and as far as I know it the common law is still the basis of law in every developed nation that comes to mind (I am an old stoner though so I may have missed the revolution). Where is he going with this jumble of nonsense?

[milesalpha]

hey Blue Kush - is English not your first language?

It may help to know that Blue Kush is a marijuana strain, a particularly good one when grow properly. I find that those who identify with weed strongly enough to use it as an online pseudonym are....well, you fill in the blank.

[LordoftheLeftHand]

I need some help from the younger folks to translate this, my teenese is getting pretty rusty. Most of his post was silly but this paragraph is just incomprehensible, anyone figure out what the point is? Now I know of some of the Maritime/Admiralty laws, he could be a little more specific since such laws have existed for centuries across a spectrum of nations. Common law has nothing to do with God's law, and as far as I know it the common law is still the basis of law in every developed nation that comes to mind (I am an old stoner though so I may have missed the revolution). Where is he going with this jumble of nonsense?

Having spent WAY too much time listening to the ranting of Alex Jones and others, I think I know what he is talking about. I think this is a reference to the idea that there are different types of citizens in the United States and that if you jump through some hoops (by purchasing books from shady characters) you can somehow get out of paying income tax or obeying other laws.

LLH

[16.5]

I am well aware that this is some sort of a fallacy, the mirror image perhaps of fallacy of authority (fallacy of idiocy?), but if someone won't take the time to clear up the most glaring, fundamental errors in their posts, and have failed to even refer to the copious amount of information available on this site, that clearly shows the lack of merit of their arguments.

Yeah, you are a Twoofer.

[e^n]

I need some help from the younger folks to translate this, my teenese is getting pretty rusty. Most of his post was silly but this paragraph is just incomprehensible, anyone figure out what the point is? Now I know of some of the Maritime/Admiralty laws, he could be a little more specific since such laws have existed for centuries across a spectrum of nations. Common law has nothing to do with God's law, and as far as I know it the common law is still the basis of law in every developed nation that comes to mind (I am an old stoner though so I may have missed the revolution). Where is he going with this jumble of nonsense?

It's a very common truther claim that the US is somehow under maritime law and courtrooms with flags with gold trimmed edges mean that you will be tried under maritime law etc.

It's pretty weird, and I've never seen any logical support for it but it's unlikely we ever will.

[fuelair]

funny how I said There anomalies which we will never know the answers too, unless yur claiming The 9/11 commission report is 100% true. And i dont see how im parroting the same claims when those anomalies were personally thought of by myself, maybe some of us think alike, but w/e.
Ive tried to read as much of the stickies as possible also. Unless if theres info on The Drug Trade in there i missed, could you point the way.

The problem is (and I am trying to stay nice at this point) all your ideas - trusting you when you say you came up with them all on your own - are the same as ideas that have been fully explained/disproved multiple times by a variety of people here and on many other fora of whom a large number were actually experts in their fields. Most (probably all - but I will be generous) of the twoofer/troofer material is by people who are NOT experts in the fields they are speaking of or, where they more or less are, they are long out of the field and frequently are simply replying to questions carefully worded to get a specific answer(latest of this a bit over a month ago).

[Quad4_72]

It seems like this guy watched some stupid movie like 9/11 in plane site or something and just repeated everything he saw. Very sound research.

[Dave Rogers]

For the convenience of other readers, I have deleted everything from Bluekush623's OP that is incorrect. I've given him the benefit of the doubt on the spelling errors.

You missed a few correct statements.


I'm not expert engineer or nothing

I cant name names yet or back there info 100%

And [...] im not a physics guy

Or maybe my idea [...] is wrong

Im no engineer/physicist also so most of it wont make since.


And, of course,


no clue



Dave

[timhau]

And the connection between Lincoln and Hendrix is?

Both had enormous hands. Inside handj... no, let's not go there. Really.

[fuelair]

Yup or time will come when the great America falls, or will it? We dont have to follow history
... Why?

Part of the "Conspiracy, Inside job", for whatever psychological effects.



Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government. We are now slaves for the corporation. Although Thinkfree.ca is canadian based we all basically have the same laws, check em out on how to retain your true sovereignty.



Guess those are normal dust clouds.



Evidence of 70+ cameras? Also, what makes you think a plane is weak?

Ive heard there are 70ish cameras surrounding the pentagons wall which was hit, well there made from aluminum, the shanksville plane was destroyed after impact and they cant be too ***** heavy to fly its called aerodynamics.

Please do not use profanity, nor attempt to mask it incorrectly for the public section of the forum. Please re-read your Membership Agreement Rule 10.



no clue









Im saying the definition of conspiracy has drifted away from it original meaning in the mainstream and media culture. Say conspiracy and u think what? 9/11, JfK, Roswell, etc. There tremendously important events and it either happened like the news says or its a conspiracy which we all no its not because it cant be true our government would never lie.Responded to you rationally. I now sense that might have been a mistake. From your answers to Redtail here I must assume you are a full out CTer, not just on 9/11.

[PB&J]

Most of your post wasn't very coherent (to me) and contained a lot of leading statements without you outright stating anything. I will address this however:

... I also find it ironic if they are attacking our freedom why did they hit The WORLD TRADE CENTER, not the Statue of Liberty or any other symbolic symbol of freedom. They hit the money and military, which is the mother and father for a war ...

These terrorists hate Americans. They hate us so much they are willing to kill themselves if it means taking Americans out with them. The # of people that would have died if they attacked the Statue of Liberty pales in comparison to the # of people they manage to kill by crashing into the WTC and the Pentagon. The phrase "attacking our freedom" is something we have mostly fostered, not them. If you could sit down and talk to one of these extremists about the goals of 9/11 (or any attack sparked by extremists), they would more likely say the goal would be to kill as many of the "Dirty Kuffars" as possible, rather than just making a political or symbolic statement.

[Cuddles]

But it is funny how alot of the greats tragically get shot or die. Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X,Bobby Kennedy, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Wellstone, Bill Copper and others

OK, ignoring your point that famous people die, which shouldn't really be that much of a surprise, let's see who you actually include on your list of great people who spoke out against the government.

Abe Lincoln and JFK. Two presidents. You know, the people in charge of the government. What, did they have themselves killed for speaking out against themselves?

Martin Luther. A 16th century German monk. Odd choice really, considering the USA didn't even exist back then.

John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix. Musicians. OK, they're famous musicians, but they can hardly be classed as a threat to, well, anything.

Tupac. A gang member who was shot by members of another gang. I'm sure the evil government was really worried about him.

Biggie, presumably Smalls. A gangster in the 1975 film "Let's Do It Again". I don't quite see the relevance here. Assuming you actually meant Christopher Wallace, we have yet another drug dealing gang member who was shot by another gang. Yeah, he was going to bring down the government and change the world if they hadn't stopped him.

Wellstone, presumably Paul. A senator who died in a plane crash. Nothing particularly great about him, he seems to have been a fairly average politician who didn't do anything particularly noteworthy or controversial.

Bobby Kennedy. Senator and presidential candidate who was shot. Seems ot have had fairly socialist leanings, but I don't really know that much about him.

Malcolm X. Political and black rights activist. This may be the first one who could legitimately be called "great". In the end though, it was basically another gang shooting. There are claims that the government may have had something to do with it but, as usual, no actual evidence. Even if claims that the government tried to incite tensions in the civil rights movement, it was still the members themselves that actually shot him.

Megar Evers. Another civil rights activist. Killed by the KKK. A black man killed by white supremecists? Must have been a government plot.:rolleyes: He was shot just after the president (Remember them? You know, the guys in charge of the government?) made a speech supporting the civil rights movement. I guess that proves it.

Fred Hampton. Member of the Black Panthers, a group known for violence and advocating violence, although they became more peaceful later. His death does look very suspicious, and I think this is probably the one person where you would be justified in citing a government conspiracy, or at least one within the FBI. However, there are an awful lot of unsupported and contradicting claims, so it is hard to know what the facts actually are. For example, the Wiki article on the BPP claims that there was no investigation into his death, while the article on Fred Hampton gives details of several investigations and trials, but is full of "citation needed" markers.

So, overall you have maybe one or two people who could be classed as great, and maybe one or two who died in possibly suspicious circumstances. Forgive me for being slightly less than impressed with this evidence of government conspiracies.

Edit: Just noticed I missed out Bill Copper. However, I have no idea who he is, and neither do either Wiki or Google, so I'll just mark that one down as an even bigger fail than the rest.

[Drudgewire]

Edit: Just noticed I missed out Bill Copper. However, I have no idea who he is, and neither do either Wiki or Google, so I'll just mark that one down as an even bigger fail than the rest.
William Cooper, the greatest conspiracy theorist ever. He's the guy who claimed the Limo driver shot Kennedy, and called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a real document but it's not really about Jews. He also claimed to have seen mile-long UFOs rising out of the water and being forced to deny it by the Navy.

He gets a lot of street cred in the CT world these days because he was gunned down by Federal Agents, even though he considered every single other person in the CT movement disinfo agents.

He warranted an entire chapter in Donna Kossy's great book "Kooks." :cool:

[Cuddles]

William Cooper, the greatest conspiracy theorist ever. He's the guy who claimed the Limo driver shot Kennedy, and called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a real document but it's not really about Jews. He also claimed to have seen mile-long UFOs rising out of the water and being forced to deny it by the Navy.

He gets a lot of street cred in the CT world these days because he was gunned down by Federal Agents, even though he considered every single other person in the CT movement disinfo agents.

He warranted an entire chapter in Donna Kossy's great book "Kooks." :cool:

Thanks. In that case, citing someone who makes David Icke look sane counts as an even bigger fail than citing someone who doesn't exist.

[GreNME]

Have we yet established what 9/11 has to do with Stargate? Bluekush mentions this in the first line of the premier post but I don't see a whole lot of exposition on it.

Just sayin'.

[Redtail]

Yup or time will come when the great America falls, or will it? We dont have to follow history
... Why?

Part of the "Conspiracy, Inside job", for whatever psychological effects.

So we can remain a superpower forever? That would be a neat trick but I don't see it happening.



Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government. We are now slaves for the corporation. Although Thinkfree.ca is canadian based we all basically have the same laws, check em out on how to retain your true sovereignty. You keep using the word slave. It doesn't mean what you think it means.



But it is funny how alot of the greats tragically get shot or die. Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X,Bobby Kennedy, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Wellstone, Bill Copper and others

And a lot don't.





exactly our fault, when are we gunna step up.

What?


Empire State for one, and just google its happened before, Cory Lidle flew his plane into a building, Not saying it was at that magnitude of 9/11 but still it happened.But WTC 7 is the first to fall from Fire, some damages and no fuel.

Oh I see you meant ANY plane hitting a building. Speed of the plane and the plane's size have nothing to do with it. Well that's a bit intellectually dishonest.




Thats what i mean how can spilling/falling/pancaking debris shoot thousand pound steel pieces into WTC 7 enough for it too collapse with the fires.A lot of energy is involved in those collapses.



But shanksvillie isnt a cleanly dug hole wheres the splashes of burning fuel starting fires. nice comeback, with very hot fires, which i guess
wtc got hot enough for too melt all the thousands of pounds of steel it had. But again collapse anomalies, well never know for sure.

So you think nothing in shanksville got burned? Also What steel was melted in the WTC?




Again blame the media, ever citizen shouldnt have to read the report to know what happened.

Why not?


Guess not, i call it a dust cloud that pops out a building when its being destroyed.

Notice the lack of a "Boom" to go along with those dust clouds.




Guess those are normal dust clouds.
Yep. At least normal considering the events.





Ive heard there are 70ish cameras surrounding the pentagons wall which was hit, well there made from aluminum, the shanksville plane was destroyed after impact and they cant be too ***** heavy to fly its called aerodynamics.

You heard? From whom? Also, light equals weak?




no clue
It's a lot.




Nope seen it, but the patsy terrorists arent the main man. I also hope you dont believe in the war on drugs, can you see a conspiracy get any worse then this one.

You were the one that asked what happened to it.




You Misread we need war on poverty, hunger, depression, addiction, greed , loneliness. You say some are personal, but how personal are they when more then one person has it.

...What? If more than one person is lonely even if the causes of said loneliness are different, it's not personal?


Not where we throw in non criminal drug offenders which supply the system.

If the drug in question is illegal they're criminals. If one choses to risk it...





Congrats, Not always.
But quite often.


Hell no, they are there to PROTECT or god given rights. plain and simple. So they ask questions and learn for themself.

Did you take social studies?


Im saying the definition of conspiracy has drifted away from it original meaning in the mainstream and media culture. Say conspiracy and u think what? 9/11, JfK, Roswell, etc. There tremendously important events and it either happened like the news says or its a conspiracy which we all no its not because it cant be true our government would never lie.

Who's saying the government would never lie?

BTW: As has been mentioned, you are a bit behind on your CT jargon. You might want to check out some of the older threads.

[The Silver Shadow]

Have we yet established what 9/11 has to do with Stargate? Bluekush mentions this in the first line of the premier post but I don't see a whole lot of exposition on it.

Just sayin'.
Well, the first post says "youtube 9/11 stargate", so I went to youtube and typed in "9/11 stargate", and this is the closest thing I got relating to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmSy07ISOw

The rest were about UFOs...

[Redtail]

Congratulations, Redtail.

Best of luck to you and the bride. :)

Thanks!:D

[Belz...]

The WTC Tower 1 and 2, The Pentagon and Shanksville, PA were the sights of each attack from the 4 planes, although the plane in Shanksville was brought down before it was able to reach its target, or so we are told maybe Shanksville was the target.

How smart you are. :rolleyes:

Now were are told we gotta get them Terrerists for attacking our freedom our life and liberty here in our country. But any knowledgeable person shall already know we are a slave in our own country although its still half our fault.

What in the blue hell are you talking about ? Since when are you a slave in your own country ? Do you not have the right to work in the job of your choice ? Do you not have the freedom to voice your opinion ? What a load of crap!

the Patriot Act signed into law, which is the beginning for a 1984 Orwellian Military Police state.

Sure thing, man. Whatever you say.

I also find it ironic if they are attacking our freedom why did they hit The WORLD TRADE CENTER, not the Statue of Liberty or any other symbolic symbol of freedom. They hit the money and military, which is the mother and father for a war.

Wouldn't you rather hit where it hurts ?

I'm not expert engineer or nothing and what really brought down the towers imo is a waste of time and energy focusing on what will never be known till someone fesses up.

How very dedicated to the truth you are!

First stated over and over 3..yes 3 buildings were the first Steel structures too ever collapse from fire, fuel and direct impact on 9/11, although The WTC complex building 7 later fell after 5 o'clock due too again structural failure from fires and falling debris (although its a pancake collapse so how could falling debris hit WTC7?)during the previous collapses of tower 1 and 2, since it wasn't it by a plane.

That is barely legible. What are you saying ? Did you or did you not see the damage to 7 WTC after 1 WTC fell ?

All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints

And now you're either lying or speaking out of your behind. Please inform yourself before you repeat the same thing that were debunked here hundreds of times.

Also we see "squibs" all over the towers above and below the hit mark from the planes, from my understanding only air pressure blasts from the pancake could happen below the hit mark while its falling but this clearly isn't the case.

If it's the only thing that could cause what you saw, why is it "clearly not" the case ?

Then too mention the pentagon, they don't wanna release a single video from over 70+ survelliance cameras in the area which can clearly show a plane.

How do you know such a video exists ?

Although whatever plane hit the pentagon it was demolished on impact most likely due to the reinforced concrete and the weakness of planes, then also how did the wall just fall into its own footprint, i see no reason why it should have fell.

A plane smashed into it.

the Federal Government(CIA, DEA, IRS) funds/promotes the extremist terrorists/Drug dealers for there own agenda. How come the War on Drugs IS never ever ever talked about anymore.

Gosh you really are all over the place, aren't you ?

Too follow the "money trail" I feel Who killed John Oneil and don't brush it of since its a "fictional" film dealing with facts, is a vital film.

If you admit it's fictional, how is it "vital" ?

Corruption is the real conspiracy not something that can never happen and is impossible, which has been the overall definition in the collective conscious for a while now. because a conspiracy only involves 2 people doing business.

I don't think you can find a single person here who'll defend 100% of what the government goes, believe 100% of what the government says, or claim that conspiracies or false flags are impossible. What we want is evidence, not speculation and paranoia.

[NYCEMT86]

Ugh....


Reading the OP is like being blind sided by a truck full of stupid, you wish it had killed you, but instead leaves you with a splitting headache.

[Belz...]

I never claimed inside job, and never said anyone else did, or that the anomalies where prove of an inside job.The anomalies i sighted were due to the fact of a controlled demolition theory and instances where the events looked, or produced something similar to a CD. From my knowledge the report should be to inform as much possible that happened on 9/11 and if its provided by the government it better be truth or it shouldnt be published at all.

Slow down, kid. What ARE you claiming, then ?

Let's stop with the vague stuff. What do you really mean ?

Yup or time will come when the great America falls, or will it? We dont have to follow history
... Why?

This bit of text makes no sense, whatsoever.

Ok do you know about Common Law and Maritime/Admiralty law? Well were are no longer bound to Common law(gods law). when we have a birth certificate, ssn and dont deny consent of federal government. We are now slaves for the corporation. Although Thinkfree.ca is canadian based we all basically have the same laws, check em out on how to retain your true sovereignty.

What point of redtail's list didn't you understand ?

But it is funny how alot of the greats tragically get shot or die. Lennon, JFK, Martin Luther, Abe Lincoln, Malcolm X,Bobby Kennedy, Fred Hampton, Medgar Evers, Hendrix, Tupac, Biggie, Wellstone, Bill Copper and others

What's also funny is how the BADGUYS also get shot, eh ?

But shanksvillie isnt a cleanly dug hole wheres the splashes of burning fuel starting fires.

Dirt doesn't burn.

Again blame the media, ever citizen shouldnt have to read the report to know what happened.

Considering how bad people are at interpreting clear data, I don't think abstract data would help.

Ive heard there are 70ish cameras surrounding the pentagons wall which was hit

And you chose to believe that because... ?

[Tolls]

Well, the first post says "youtube 9/11 stargate", so I went to youtube and typed in "9/11 stargate", and this is the closest thing I got relating to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEmSy07ISOw

The rest were about UFOs...

Blimey.
What an annoyingly smug sounding voice!

and
Re: Bill Cooper. I thought a lot of the CT "movement" view him as a disinfo agent now? At least that's what I was told when discussing JFK with someone (CT type), and mentioned his "shot by the driver" theory.

It's amazing how all the disinfo agents are the ones who were once believed, and only being "unmasked" when their "theories" are so riddled with holes that all but the complete die-hards see they're wrong.

[The Silver Shadow]

With 9/11 we also seen the Patriot Act signed into law, which is the beginning for a 1984 Orwellian Military Police state. It begins to strip our freedom for protection, thats just blatantly contradictory if were supposed to live in America.
Really? You mean having this is against the law essentially if we are living in a society where the Patriot Act takes away our freedoms?
10274

I have two versions of this in my room. Holy crap! I'm gonna be taken away by the evil NWO for criticizing the government!

[ktesibios]

I need some help from the younger folks to translate this, my teenese is getting pretty rusty. Most of his post was silly but this paragraph is just incomprehensible, anyone figure out what the point is? Now I know of some of the Maritime/Admiralty laws, he could be a little more specific since such laws have existed for centuries across a spectrum of nations. Common law has nothing to do with God's law, and as far as I know it the common law is still the basis of law in every developed nation that comes to mind (I am an old stoner though so I may have missed the revolution). Where is he going with this jumble of nonsense?

It's part of a set of beliefs that come as part of a buy one, get one free sale at the Alcoa Haberdashery Shoppe. Among them are the belief that Federal courts operate under Admiralty rather than US law, that a gold fringe on a courtroom flag means that it is operating under martial law, that the USA went bankrupt either in 1871 or 1933 and is now a corporation, that citizens are the property of this corporation and serve as collateral for it to obtain credit and that the use of all caps on documents such as birth certificates is proof of this...

A lot of this @#$% is popular with the tax protestor set; consequently a number of these claims are found in Dan Evans' Tax Protestor FAQ, although from the rather narrow viewpoint of tax law:

Gold-fringed flags (http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#flagfringes)
Admiralty courts (http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#admiralty)
A name written in all caps isn't the same person as when the name is capitalized normally (http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#capitals)
Punctuation games with names (http://evans-legal.com/dan/tpfaq.html#punctuation)

And from a few conspira-loon sites:

The USA is a foreign-owned corporation (http://theunjustmedia.com/Banking%20&%20Federal%20Reserve/The%20united%20states%20Of%20America%20%20is%20a%2 0corporation%20owned%20by%20foreign%20interests.ht m)
The USA went bankrupt in 1933 and became a foreign-owned corporation (http://www.apfn.net/DOC-100_bankruptcy.htm)
You are a slave, the capital letters on your birth certificate prove it and please buy our book (http://www.nmcservices.net/youareaslave.html)

It's of interest in the sense of being an indication of where BlueKush is getting his beliefs and as a demonstration of what I call "syndromism" or the "betcha can't swallow just one" effect.


William Cooper, the greatest conspiracy theorist ever. He's the guy who claimed the Limo driver shot Kennedy, and called the Protocols of the Elders of Zion a real document but it's not really about Jews. He also claimed to have seen mile-long UFOs rising out of the water and being forced to deny it by the Navy.

He gets a lot of street cred in the CT world these days because he was gunned down by Federal Agents, even though he considered every single other person in the CT movement disinfo agents.

He warranted an entire chapter in Donna Kossy's great book "Kooks." :cool:

No, not Federal Agents. They were county Sheriff's deputies who had gone to serve arrest warrants on a variety of charges including aggravated assault with a deadly weapon (apparently Mr. Cooper had a liking for threatening people with guns). It appears to be a case of suicide by cop.

Ironically, a fairly common belief among the gun-fondling subset of the tinfoil-hat brigade is that a county Sheriff is the highest legitimate law enforcement authority.

See the Wiki entry for Cooper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_William_Cooper)

[beachnut]

Empire State for one, and just google its happened before, Cory Lidle flew his plane into a building, Not saying it was at that magnitude of 9/11 but still it happened.But WTC 7 is the first to fall from Fire, some damages and no fuel.
WTC7 burned all day and had no fire fighting done. So you want to compare a building damaged by debris from the WTC towers, TONS of Debris, burning all day to, buildings that had fires and were fought!? Funny stuff, considering in addition to office fires in WTC7, unlike all other fires you want to compare it to, WTC7 had 10 to 20,000 gallons of fuel in it! Makes it VERY different.

So WTC7, reasons it was different from all other Skyscraper fires!
1. Tons of debris carved out a big hole!
2. Fires were not fought due to no water.
3. 20,000 gallons of fuel to run the many generators in the building.

I have never seen a building not fall when there is no fire fighting done on it and the fire systems are broken!

Now look at the evidence for planes hitting buildings and why on 9/11 planes destroyed two towers!

Cory Lidle aircraft impact into a 40 story "high-rise" was equal to an impact energy of less than 0.9 pounds of TNT. No wonder most his plane fell out side and only smashed the windows. He was flying at less than 120 mph! His plane only weighed 3000 pounds!

B-25 hits the Empire State Building was an impact energy of 18.6 pounds of TNT, much bigger than Cory, but still only local fires and damage to elevators, the fire was fought and put out. Not a lot of fuel.

WTC towers were designed for an impact of a 707 with an impact energy of 184.6 pounds of TNT. This would leave local damage at the impact and fires. The fire would be fought and the towers would not fall! Plus the design included LOW FUEL, the plane was trying to land.

9/11 WTC towers impacts were at an energy of 1300 to 2093 pounds of TNT energy. Both planes caused global damage to the buildings, knocking out fire systems. Planes had a lot of fuel, 60,000 pounds, or 67,000 pounds for truthers.

Yes planes have hit buildings before but not like 9/11!
http://www.beachymon.com/photo/impactenergy.jpg
Think of the bars as damage to a building! See why the impacts of the jets on 9/11 make a big difference. Speed kills.

[Pardalis]

Oh please, we're not going to do this all over again?

[dudalb]

Have we yet established what 9/11 has to do with Stargate? Bluekush mentions this in the first line of the premier post but I don't see a whole lot of exposition on it.

Just sayin'.

At least it's a change from "The Matrix" the Twoofers usual movie of choice.
Ya gotta love his mangling of the names of Martin Luther King and Bill Cooper though.
Granted, MLK was named after Luther but still it does not speak well of the care which Blue Kush took in writing his rant.
I agree that he took the name of a very strong species of Pot should tell you something.

[dudalb]

Blimey.
What an annoyingly smug sounding voice!

and
Re: Bill Cooper. I thought a lot of the CT "movement" view him as a disinfo agent now? At least that's what I was told when discussing JFK with someone (CT type), and mentioned his "shot by the driver" theory.

It's amazing how all the disinfo agents are the ones who were once believed, and only being "unmasked" when their "theories" are so riddled with holes that all but the complete die-hards see they're wrong.

I think it was case of mutual belief that the other guy was Disinfo. Some Conspiracy Kooks thought that Cooper was so out there that he was damaging the cause (which is sort of like being too insane to be put in the Asylum) and Cooper was convinced that his CT critics were out to discredit him.
Cooper's final exit was sad, just sad...a shoot out with State Highway Patrolmen which he apparetnly started.
BTW the "Alternate" version of Cooper's death which is up on Wikipedia is pure crap,and another reason I am a firm skeptic on the reliabiility of a Encyclopedia which anyone can edit.
Cooper is right up there with David Icke as one of the REALLY crazy Conspiracy theorists, that make the likes of Alex Jones look like
mild eccentrics.

[Bluekush623]

Awesome, Everyone..Seeing how everyone is sticking to pointing out how the anomalies are already debunked, I know that. If you didn't understand me say that in the OP that these anomalies don't matter, are waste time, and are unprovable unless if everyone is pushing the 9/11 report and NIST as official truth, is because we will never know exactly what caused the towers too fall and what happened in the building. All the anomalies do is describe what looks like IDEA of it being a Controlled Demo.

But as me not being an engineer or physicists i cant 100% back up any theory because i have no knowledge about the topics.

But again most of my post wasnt all about the anomalies, but hey thats all the debunkers focus on. And please people I dont care how long youve been here trying to explain to people, if you cant add something Intelligible to the thread dont post, save yourself some time if you really want too. If you are so past it then move on, cause obviously all of us arent. And wow 9/11 was 8 years ago case solved and shut, the terrorists did it so stop talking about it, i guess we should forget anything that has happened in our History be 9/11. Cmon you Critical thinkers i know you can do better then this. I also love how you guys nitpick my words though then have different posts trying to flame me for spelling or in cohesiveness, which does nothing because bad grammar doesnt withdraw someones statements.

Although no one here wants to comment on WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail and goto Thinkfree.ca to learn about how weve have been duped by our government , i kinda get the idea though. Bash what u can then forget the other stuff, kinda what the CT'ers do
I think its called nit picking. Although there were some valuable posts with drug war info ill have to take a look b4 i can respond.

Im just here to communicate people, stop being so serious.

[Pardalis]

http://www.englishclub.com/learn-english.htm

[WildCat]

Im just here to communicate people, stop being so serious.
You may want to start paying attention to your sentence structure, punctuation, paragraphs that have a coherent theme, etc etc. Large parts of your posts are so poorly constructed as to be completely incoherent.

If English is not your native language I'll cut you some slack, but if it is I can only conclude that you don't really care enough about the subject matter to bother with even the most basic care in communicating your views. And if you don't care, why should anyone else?

[timhau]

Whatever happened to trolls that were concise and occasionally even a bit funny?

[Arus808]

Awesome, Everyone..Seeing how everyone is sticking to pointing out how the anomalies are already debunked, I know that.
then why are you parroting them if you knew that the claims (they are no anomalies) have been debunked?


If you didn't understand me say that in the OP that these anomalies don't matter, are waste time, and are unprovable unless if everyone is pushing the 9/11 report and NIST as official truth, is because we will never know exactly what caused the towers too fall and what happened in the building. All the anomalies do is describe what looks like IDEA of it being a Controlled Demo.Say what?

1) they are no anomalies.
2) NIST is not the "official" truth. Its a report that looked at the evidence and provided a narration to go with what happened that day, with all the techinical data, so that other engineers can read and understand, and make improvement to existing building codes - which have been done by the way (the new WTC 7 is a good example). YOU do know the reason why NIST was tasked with the report dont you?

But as me not being an engineer or physicists i cant 100% back up any theory because i have no knowledge about the topics. then you should stop repeating the claims of non-physicists and engineers.

But again most of my post wasnt all about the anomalies, but hey thats all the debunkers focus on.
again they are not anomalies.

90% of your post was about your ignorance on 911. The other stuff, deserve their own thread, in their respective forums.

[Bluekush623]

=Cuddles;3495492]OK, ignoring your point that famous people die, which shouldn't really be that much of a surprise, let's see who you actually include on your list of great people who spoke out against the government.

thanks for twisting a pointless subject, so ill just keep it short

Abe Lincoln and JFK. Two presidents. You know, the people in charge of the government. What, did they have themselves killed for speaking out against themselves?

Both were opposing "illuminati", cant really reference Abe situation, but Kennedy was tryin to goto gold standard, rid the cia and fed, just normal stuff.

Martin Luther. A 16th century German monk. Odd choice really, considering the USA didn't even exist back then.

sorry spelling MLKJ

John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix. Musicians. OK, they're famous musicians, but they can hardly be classed as a threat to, well, anything.

yea people who speak peace

Tupac. A gang member who was shot by members of another gang. I'm sure the evil government was really worried about him.

Ok only reason i responded because of your ignorance, Tupac actually just released his Killuminati album and was a heavy reader of the occult when he was sent to prison. Also Tupac has been the most influential voice ive heard since his time.


Biggie, presumably Smalls. A gangster in the 1975 film "Let's Do It Again". I don't quite see the relevance here. Assuming you actually meant Christopher Wallace, we have yet another drug dealing gang member who was shot by another gang. Yeah, he was going to bring down the government and change the world if they hadn't stopped him.

Biggie would then just be a puppet part of the whole east vs west, if we killed tupac lets kill biggie and make it look like a gang war.

Wellstone, presumably Paul. A senator who died in a plane crash. Nothing particularly great about him, he seems to have been a fairly average politician who didn't do anything particularly noteworthy or controversial.

Bobby Kennedy. Senator and presidential candidate who was shot. Seems ot have had fairly socialist leanings, but I don't really know that much about him.


Malcolm X. Political and black rights activist. This may be the first one who could legitimately be called "great". In the end though, it was basically another gang shooting. There are claims that the government may have had something to do with it but, as usual, no actual evidence. Even if claims that the government tried to incite tensions in the civil rights movement, it was still the members themselves that actually shot him.

Megar Evers. Another civil rights activist. Killed by the KKK. A black man killed by white supremecists? Must have been a government plot.:rolleyes: He was shot just after the president (Remember them? You know, the guys in charge of the government?) made a speech supporting the civil rights movement. I guess that proves it.

Fred Hampton. Member of the Black Panthers, a group known for violence and advocating violence, although they became more peaceful later. His death does look very suspicious, and I think this is probably the one person where you would be justified in citing a government conspiracy, or at least one within the FBI. However, there are an awful lot of unsupported and contradicting claims, so it is hard to know what the facts actually are. For example, the Wiki article on the BPP claims that there was no investigation into his death, while the article on Fred Hampton gives details of several investigations and trials, but is full of "citation needed" markers.

So, overall you have maybe one or two people who could be classed as great, and maybe one or two who died in possibly suspicious circumstances. Forgive me for being slightly less than impressed with this evidence of government conspiracies.

Edit: Just noticed I missed out Bill Copper. However, I have no idea who he is, and neither do either Wiki or Google, so I'll just mark that one down as an even bigger fail than the rest.

Ok maybe Wellstone or Evers werent great or w/e, but i never stated that these were coverups just that it happens tragically. Just like the bad guys die early too.

[aggle-rithm]

Martin Luther. A 16th century German monk. Odd choice really, considering the USA didn't even exist back then.


Sshhh. The NWO's working on a time machine. Those 95 Theses set a bad precedent.

Keep it under your hat...

[Pardalis]

I think we need a gangsta-English translation algorithm.

[WildCat]

Both were opposing "illuminati", cant really reference Abe situation, but Kennedy was tryin to goto gold standard, rid the cia and fed, just normal stuff.
No, he wasn't.

Did you see my post about how your message is lost in your apparent inability to write coherently?

[aggle-rithm]

sorry spelling MLKJ


Leaving out a person's last name is not a spelling error. It's a cognitive error. Especially when, in leaving out the last name, you change him to a different person who lived 400 years earlier.


Ok maybe Wellstone or Evers werent great or w/e, but i never stated that these were coverups just that it happens tragically. Just like the bad guys die early too.

Hmmm...

Maybe you should work up your material before you get up on stage. Pointless, meandering streams of consciousness have a way of getting ridiculed around here.

Just a friendly piece of advice...

[Metullus]

Awesome, Everyone..Seeing how everyone is sticking to pointing out how the anomalies are already debunked, I know that. If you didn't understand me say that in the OP that these anomalies don't matter, are waste time, and are unprovable unless if everyone is pushing the 9/11 report and NIST as official truth, is because we will never know exactly what caused the towers too fall and what happened in the building. All the anomalies do is describe what looks like IDEA of it being a Controlled Demo.

But as me not being an engineer or physicists i cant 100% back up any theory because i have no knowledge about the topics.

But again most of my post wasnt all about the anomalies, but hey thats all the debunkers focus on. And please people I dont care how long youve been here trying to explain to people, if you cant add something Intelligible to the thread dont post, save yourself some time if you really want too. If you are so past it then move on, cause obviously all of us arent. And wow 9/11 was 8 years ago case solved and shut, the terrorists did it so stop talking about it, i guess we should forget anything that has happened in our History be 9/11. Cmon you Critical thinkers i know you can do better then this. I also love how you guys nitpick my words though then have different posts trying to flame me for spelling or in cohesiveness, which does nothing because bad grammar doesnt withdraw someones statements.

Although no one here wants to comment on WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail and goto Thinkfree.ca to learn about how weve have been duped by our government , i kinda get the idea though. Bash what u can then forget the other stuff, kinda what the CT'ers do
I think its called nit picking. Although there were some valuable posts with drug war info ill have to take a look b4 i can respond.

Im just here to communicate people, stop being so serious.I do not wish to appear rude, but your posts are largely incomprehensible. If your corespondents are not understanding what it is you are trying to communicate it is not, I think, the reader's fault.

Can you restate your positions/claims/questions using complete sentences, meaningful organization, conventional spelling, and appropriate punctuation? If so it would be a big help.

[Disbelief]

And please people I dont care how long youve been here trying to explain to people, if you cant add something Intelligible to the thread dont post, save yourself some time if you really want too. If you are so past it then move on, cause obviously all of us arent. And wow 9/11 was 8 years ago case solved and shut, the terrorists did it so stop talking about it, i guess we should forget anything that has happened in our History be 9/11. Cmon you Critical thinkers i know you can do better then this. I also love how you guys nitpick my words though then have different posts trying to flame me for spelling or in cohesiveness, which does nothing because bad grammar doesnt withdraw someones statements.



You want people to only post intelligible items, yet what you post is unintelligible and you complain when called on it. Add some substance and some proof, and you would get some real dialogue.

intelligible

adjective
1. capable of being apprehended or understood [syn: apprehensible]
2. well articulated or enunciated, and loud enough to be heard distinctly; "intelligible pronunciation" [ant: unintelligible]

[Newtons Bit]

Sshhh. The NWO's working on a time machine. Those 95 Theses set a bad precedent.

Keep it under your hat...

Yea, and the establishment never did manage to kill him, though they tried.

I am particulary fond of Martin Luther. He actually stood up to something evil and won. Our truther friends have no clue what he went through to actually fight the establishment.

[Bluekush623]

Leaving out a person's last name is not a spelling error. It's a cognitive error. Especially when, in leaving out the last name, you change him to a different person who lived 400 years earlier.


Well when i think of people who recently died within the last 100ish years Martin Luther doesnt come to mind but MLK does, sorry for my cognitive dissonance making you remember people from 400 years ago. Instead of recent history.

Hmmm...

Maybe you should work up your material before you get up on stage. Pointless, meandering streams of consciousness have a way of getting ridiculed around here.

Just a friendly piece of advice...

I have no material but what ive experienced so far in my life, grant its been a short time im still learning everyday like you should be. As for being ridiculed i really dont care, i can be named bashed all day long no biggie to me. Im just here having conversation on a forum.

[uk_dave]

Has he mentioned chemtrails yet?

[milesalpha]

Well we know you have admit to having no knowledge in science. Since you are attempting to butcher history, I'd like to know what your background in that discipline is? Anything beyond reading a wingnut website?

[ellindsey]

i cant 100% back up any theory because i have no knowledge about the topics.

Correct this first.

[WildCat]

I have no material but what ive experienced so far in my life, grant its been a short time im still learning everyday like you should be. As for being ridiculed i really dont care, i can be named bashed all day long no biggie to me. Im just here having conversation on a forum.
It's not about bashing you, but about a genuine inability of people to understand you because of your extremely poor writing skills. If you really want to have a conversation maybe you should start proofreading your posts to see if they make any sense.

[Bluekush623]

Has he mentioned chemtrails yet?

:D LoL exactly what i mean. C'mon you critical thinkers read. I havent even called 9/11 an inside job. But just because i sound off on some anomalies, im a whack o jack o because they've been discussed since 2003 or whenever, fine I know that. But please don't ignore what else i had to say, about WKJO and Andrew Grove and the money trail they have found.

[Arus808]

Stop calling them anomalies. They aren't anomalies.

about WKJO and Andrew Grove, please take those issues to the APPROPRIATE forums.

[Newtons Bit]

:D LoL exactly what i mean. C'mon you critical thinkers read. I havent even called 9/11 an inside job. But just because i sound off on some anomalies, im a whack o jack o because they've been discussed since 2003 or whenever, fine I know that. But please don't ignore what else i had to say, about WKJO and Andrew Grove and the money trail they have found.

Umm.. in your first post you said:

Also we see "squibs" all over the towers above and below the hit mark from the planes, from my understanding only air pressure blasts from the pancake could happen below the hit mark while its falling but this clearly isn't the case.

Check out 9/11eyewitnesses Transmission Tower leads collapse short for squibs above hit mark.

You are shilling for the idiotic controlled demolition fantasy. You admit that you are a "Twoofer" in the subject of this forum post. Your writing also shows that you believe the idiot claims of ignorant, delusional, greedy and uneducated leaders of the woo and ignore that of actual experts.

You're not living in reality. The best advice we can give to someone like you is to go out and get a real education. Go to college, get a degree in a SCIENCE field. Talk to your professors. Learn to think for yourself and step letting Alex Jones do it for you.

[Bluekush623]

Stop calling them anomalies. They aren't anomalies.

about WKJO and Andrew Grove, please take those issues to the APPROPRIATE forums.

Yes they are anomalies;something anomalous : something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified. Especially visually too my eye. The collapses all looked like a CD, even if its a provable pancake collapse. Thats an anomaly in my book especially not having engineering or physicist degree.

And this is the appropriate place the Conspiracy Theory sub-forum. Even though they are political its still a conspiracy.

[uk_dave]

:D LoL exactly what i mean. C'mon you critical thinkers read. I havent even called 9/11 an inside job.

What have chemtrails got to do with 9-11? :confused:

There's all kinds of woo out there. You seem to have swallowed most of it.

[Arus808]

Yes they are anomalies;something anomalous : something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified. Especially visually too my eye.

KEY word here : TO YOU.

What you are pointing out are NOT anomalies to the EXPERTS.


The collapses all looked like a CD, even if its a provable pancake collapse.

Please read the NIST report. the Pancake theory was thrown out in 2003


Thats an anomaly in my book especially not having engineering or physicist degree.

That is why its NOT an anomaly.


And this is the appropriate place the Conspiracy Theory sub-forum. Even though they are political its still a conspiracy.

Political theories belong in the politics forum.

[uk_dave]

Especially visually too my eye.

We once had another poster who had problems with that word.

Maybe it's genetic.

[Pardalis]

Yes they are anomalies;something anomalous : something different, abnormal, peculiar, or not easily classified. Especially visually too my eye. The collapses all looked like a CD, even if its a provable pancake collapse. Thats an anomaly in my book especially not having engineering or physicist degree.

So they look like a controlled demolition to your untrained eye, and you have no way of understanding the physics behind these events.

So what exactly do you want us to do?

[Bluekush623]

Umm.. in your first post you said:



You are shilling for the idiotic controlled demolition fantasy. You admit that you are a "Twoofer" in the subject of this forum post. Your writing also shows that you believe the idiot claims of ignorant, delusional, greedy and uneducated leaders of the woo and ignore that of actual experts.

You're not living in reality. The best advice we can give to someone like you is to go out and get a real education. Go to college, get a degree in a SCIENCE field. Talk to your professors. Learn to think for yourself and step letting Alex Jones do it for you.

Ugh you guys cmon read what i have too say. I BELIEVE no claims either CD or Pancake, 9/11 was something bigger then buildings falling down due to an attack. Im here trying to start a convo on WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.

this is exactly what i meant in my OP, the definition of conspiracy is all wish-washed from its original meaning. I keep getting butchered because i cant claim a false or negative for why the towers fell, which has become the ultimate conspiracy. instead of trying to get a view of the whole picture on the war on terrorism and drugs. And how the towers came done is irrelevant because Muslim Terrorists still could have placed bombs in each complex, ensuring the collapse(although very unlikely), but the topic has been whether terrorists with planes, or the government with bombs took down the buildings.

[Bluekush623]

KEY word here : TO YOU.

What you are pointing out are NOT anomalies to the EXPERTS.

Thank you for finally understanding


Please read the NIST report. the Pancake theory was thrown out in 2003


First time ive heard of this, could you describe what its now being called or lead me to the reference

That is why its NOT an anomaly.




Political theories belong in the politics forum.

Conspiracy

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Nowadays a conspiracy is just doing business ie our wars.

[Belz...]

Awesome, Everyone..Seeing how everyone is sticking to pointing out how the anomalies are already debunked, I know that. If you didn't understand me say that in the OP that these anomalies don't matter, are waste time, and are unprovable unless if everyone is pushing the 9/11 report and NIST as official truth, is because we will never know exactly what caused the towers too fall and what happened in the building. All the anomalies do is describe what looks like IDEA of it being a Controlled Demo.

But as me not being an engineer or physicists i cant 100% back up any theory because i have no knowledge about the topics.

Then what the hell are you here for ?

But again most of my post wasnt all about the anomalies, but hey thats all the debunkers focus on.

That's because it's all most truthers focus on.

Im just here to communicate people, stop being so serious.

9/11 is not a joke.

[Belz...]

:D LoL exactly what i mean. C'mon you critical thinkers read. I havent even called 9/11 an inside job. But just because i sound off on some anomalies, im a whack o jack o because they've been discussed since 2003 or whenever, fine I know that. But please don't ignore what else i had to say, about WKJO and Andrew Grove and the money trail they have found.

Those ARE old, debunked claims, too.

I BELIEVE no claims either CD or Pancake, 9/11 was something bigger then buildings falling down due to an attack.

huh ?

[WildCat]

Thats an anomaly in my book especially not having engineering or physicist degree.
Stundies just write themselves...

[Redtail]

Ugh you guys cmon read what i have too say. I BELIEVE no claims either CD or Pancake, 9/11 was something bigger then buildings falling down due to an attack. Im here trying to start a convo on WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.

Ok then ask questions about WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.

this is exactly what i meant in my OP, the definition of conspiracy is all wish-washed from its original meaning. I keep getting butchered because i cant claim a false or negative for why the towers fell, which has become the ultimate conspiracy. instead of trying to get a view of the whole picture on the war on terrorism and drugs. And how the towers came done is irrelevant because Muslim Terrorists still could have placed bombs in each complex, ensuring the collapse(although very unlikely), but the topic has been whether terrorists with planes, or the government with bombs took down the buildings.

And THIS is what many of us are talking about. You say you don't want to talk about a subject yet you bring it up again. Then there's the bolded above. What are you trying to say there?

[Sparky]

Im here trying to start a convo on WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.



Do you mean Richard Andrew "Batpoo Crazy" (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1675159&postcount=1015) Grove?

[uk_dave]

Do you mean Richard Andrew "Batpoo Crazy" (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=1675159&postcount=1015) Grove?

Crikey!! Someone repossessed his Range Rover.

Must've been satan.

[Bluekush623]

Do you mean Richard Andrew Batpoo Crazy"Grove?

yup its the same BatPoo. seriously though when did critical thinkers become the champs of name calling. Shouldnt you be smart enough not to waste your time.

[Architect]

Ach, we only name call to distract us from really crap grammar and punctuation...

[uk_dave]

yup its the same BatPoo. seriously though when did critical thinkers become the champs of name calling. Shouldnt you be smart enough not to waste your time.

It takes very little time but does raise a laugh. What's bad about that?

[Pardalis]

Bluekush, don't you want to be a critical thinker? Anybody can be one, you just need to make a little effort.

Actually having something to say is always a good place to start.

[beachnut]

yup its the same BatPoo. seriously though when did critical thinkers become the champs of name calling. Shouldnt you be smart enough not to waste your time.
When will you present a single fact to support whatever you are trying to say? You said airplanes have hit building before; SO? You are on open-loop posting junk.

It does not take critical thinkers to see you have failed to present a coherent point backed with facts.

[NobbyNobbs]

I have two versions of this in my room. Holy crap! I'm gonna be taken away by the evil NWO for criticizing the government!

Twice!

And please people I dont care how long youve been here trying to explain to people, if you cant add something Intelligible to the thread dont post, save yourself some time if you really want too.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Bluekush623]

Bluekush, don't you want to be a critical thinker? Anybody can be one, you just need to make a little effort.

Actually having something to say is always a good place to start.

I dont wanna be one who wishes too indulge in life changing information and then bash the opposing side with name calling. frankly i find it childish and immature and irrelevant to the situation. Which i guess is the norm now. If you can critically think and then believe or make a decision off everything you are told or believe to know, then you truly cant critically think properly.

Plato said Im the wisest man in Athens because I know I dont know. So how does all your information give you the permission to name call and dismiss other claims, since theres obvisously no way you or your info can be wrong?

[Sparky]

So how does all your information give you the permission to name call and dismiss other claims...

I have yet to see you actually MAKE a claim. How about it?

[mortimer]

I've pretty much made it a rule not to correspond with anyone who can't take 5 minutes of their lives to learn that to<>too<>two.

Don't even get me started on the others like they're/there/their.

[Drudgewire]

If you can critically think and then believe or make a decision off everything you are told or believe to know, then you truly cant critically think properly.
*head asplodes*

[tanabear]

Bluekush623 writes, "All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints."

The destruction of WTC7 and WTC1,2 are somewhat different. WTC7 was a conventional implosion. WTC1,2 were top-down demolitions. The demolition wave went down through the buildings while the building material was pulverized and blown outward then fell to the ground. So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.

CHF writes, "Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere."

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?

[T.A.M.]

The sad thing is, even when the trolling is so outrageous and easy to bash, I find little enjoyment in it anymore. It is all very old (apparently unlike the poster of the OP).

TAM:)

[Sparky]

If you can critically think and then believe or make a decision off everything you are told or believe to know, then you truly cant critically think properly.




Stundie!

[T.A.M.]

Bluekush623 writes, "All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints."

The destruction of WTC7 and WTC1,2 are somewhat different. WTC7 was a conventional implosion. WTC1,2 were top-down demolitions. The demolition wave went down through the buildings while the building material was pulverized and blown outward then fell to the ground. So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.

CHF writes, "Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere."

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?

WTC 7 was not a conventional implosion.

WTC 1 & 2 were not implosions or controlled demolitions either.

I said so therefore I am correct, and since this all the proof you have, my argument is as good as yours.

Wanna try again?

TAM;)

[WildCat]

WTC7 was a conventional implosion.
It was? How come you can't hear any demo charges going off?

[Sparky]

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?

When the government takes away our government propaganda talking points bulletins of course!

[Redtail]

It was? How come you can't hear any demo charges going off?

Silencers?

[16.5]

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?

Well, cripes, aren't you just gonna call us useful idiots? Isn't that what you called Gravy?

Anyhow, welcome to the site.

[Brainache]

Bluekush623 writes, "All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints."

The destruction of WTC7 and WTC1,2 are somewhat different. WTC7 was a conventional implosion. WTC1,2 were top-down demolitions. The demolition wave went down through the buildings while the building material was pulverized and blown outward then fell to the ground. So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.

CHF writes, "Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere."

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?

Welcome Tanabear, I hope your stay here is a happy and a fruitful one.

You look like you are keen to learn about what happened on 9/11/01 in the US.

I hope you will use your time here wisely.

Don't follow the rabbit.

:hypnodisk:bunpan:hypnodisk

I thought I'd try it again, because it seems my hopes for Bluekush have been dashed to pieces against the brick wall of his beliefs.

[Drudgewire]

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?
When they stop paying us millions of Ameros to do so. :cool:

[beachnut]

Bluekush623 writes, "All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints."

The destruction of WTC7 and WTC1,2 are somewhat different. WTC7 was a conventional implosion. WTC1,2 were top-down demolitions. The demolition wave went down through the buildings while the building material was pulverized and blown outward then fell to the ground. So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.

CHF writes, "Someone please let me know if this latest twoofer says something new.

I swear, it's like these people come off an assembly line somewhere."

When are government propagandists such as yourself going to stop repeating government propaganda?
When are trolls like you going to use facts to support your ideas which are lies right now?

You have found a nest of people most likely not to be government propagandist, and you are what? A 9/11 truth member, those who can't think for themselves who parrot mindlessly the ideas of 9/11 truth. When will you ever get anything right; of course since you think you are right about everything, you never will gain knowledge on 9/11.

[Bluekush623]

Ugh i thought i might get a good discussion here about 9/11, War and conspiracy or w/e. Guess i was completely wrong and actually foreshadowed all this complete nonsense of picking my words apart and trying too make me feel like a fool. I laugh at everyone here at this site that believes the world is in the correct direction or that we still should leave it to our leaders. Not that I know everything here discussed at this board or everyones opinions, but from what ive seen and experienced here, man awful, but thats my overview.

Take loose change, zeitgiest and the other films and all you guys do is bash them because it doesnt fit what weve been told and how the world operates. These films even if they dont hold all truth atleast make the viewer start questioning what they have been told.Very few people much less movies do that.Especially when the ordinary person has to shift between media/government propaganda and what the truth might be. Its the 21st century and we have SERIOUS problems here that cant be solved, we still have churches, growing federal government, illegal drugs, Our bill of rights and constitution are being put in jeopardy to secure freedom, then were still relying on institutions and donations to rid of all the unnecessary disease and famine going on at home(earth), all while we depend on others, government, and leaders to solve this problem for us. When the hell are Americans gunna wake up from this materialistic, egotistical, masculine illusion.

We need to take responsibility for our actions, no one else will. No wonder why everyone oversea thinks were ***** retarded fat asses, and want to fly themselves into buildings to destroy us, freedom and liberty. Because we dont wanna think and do for ourself, because its just too much sacrifice.

And while i write my last post and go back to Reading/lurking for information without name bashing, Ill maybe become a engineer/physicist and be able to agree with all you engineer/physicists debates here on 9/11, since reading the report and NIST is all you need to do to understand it all.

and since i OBVIOUSLY stated over and over the 9/11 collapses dont matter whether if it was a Pancake or whatever else collapse the 9/11 report, NIST calls it or a CD its all meaningless unless if we know the real reason we were hijacked/attacked. I also said that id never take a stand since we will TRULY 100% will never know what happened in those buildings. Thank you everyone for sticking to those suspected "anomalies" i never even stood by.

However the discussion i was trying to get into and calling myself a twoofer for was only replied by one person who mentioned that WKJO/Andrew Grove was already debunked, id really like too see all that information instead of just your word. And not the its a fictional film b.s argument.

Other then that i dont know what too say, time to go back too 3rd grade and retake spelling i guess. and everyone else have a merry journey through life, let experience lead the way.

*Puts on Thinking(Tin foil) cap"

[WildCat]

Ugh i thought i might get a good discussion here about 9/11, War and conspiracy or w/e.
I asked you specifically about your belief that Kennedy wanted to go to a gold standard and abolish the Fed. You completely ignored it, and now here you are again with a long, rambling, nonsensical post. Do you actually have a point?

Maybe if you were coherent people could actually converse with you.

[Drudgewire]

Take loose change, zeitgiest and the other films and all you guys do is bash them because it doesnt fit what weve been told and how the world operates.
Yeah, stupid reality. Always getting in the way of lies, half-truths, and paranoid delusions.

Reality is a big jerk! http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/colbert.gif

[Sparky]

And while i write my last post and go back to Reading/lurking for information without name bashing, Ill maybe become a engineer/physicist and be able to agree with all you engineer/physicists debates here on 9/11, since reading the report and NIST is all you need to do to understand it all.

<snip>

Other then that i dont know what too say, time to go back too 3rd grade and retake spelling i guess. and everyone else have a merry journey through life, let experience lead the way.

*Puts on Thinking(Tin foil) cap"


Happy trails...

[16.5]

"Ugh i thought i might get a good discussion here about 9/11, War and conspiracy or w/e."

So it is our fault your posts were indecipherable, riddled with basic grammar errors and basically a complete waste of time?

Gotcha. Our bad.

[fuelair]

Ok then ask questions about WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.



And THIS is what many of us are talking about. You say you don't want to talk about a subject yet you bring it up again. Then there's the bolded above. What are you trying to say there?
And what you bolded has been clearly, absolutely debunked by a person who does CD here within the last three or four weeks. Not sure of the thread, but it was a thorough explanation of what MUST be done to have a CD - and in no way does that allow for any or all of the towers to have been done that way (note, since I have watched several DVD's /Vhs cassettes showing the process on multiple structures, all from before 2001 I already knew this information as could anybody willing to order a couple of them). It's a really big job for people who really know how to do it. And most of the building has to be removed first!!

[VespaGuy]

...No wonder why everyone oversea thinks were ***** retarded fat asses...

Maybe they think we're "retarded fat asses" because some of the more vocal Americans are ignorant, young, rambling idiots who have the grammar skills of 5 year olds and make absolutely no attempt to present themselves as adults.

[uk_dave]

The destruction of WTC7 and WTC1,2 are somewhat different. WTC7 was a conventional implosion. WTC1,2 were top-down demolitions. The demolition wave went down through the buildings while the building material was pulverized and blown outward then fell to the ground. So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.



Well I'm not sure that is entirely correct but I'm willing to be persuaded by a well presented argument backed up with verifiable evidence.

Go ahead. In your own time. No hurry.... well, actually, there is a hurry because we're talking here about the cover-up of a conspiracy which involved the deaths of 3000 people and if you're right then the perps have escaped justice and may, even now, be enjoying the fruits of their evil deeds. So a little haste might well be in order, before six years turns into seven.

Fire away.

[Bluekush623]

I asked you specifically about your belief that Kennedy wanted to go to a gold standard and abolish the Fed. You completely ignored it, and now here you are again with a long, rambling, nonsensical post. Do you actually have a point?

Maybe if you were coherent people could actually converse with you.

ugh because some people LOVE to NITPICK at words i have to at least give this response.Since you clearly cant read get some glasses and reread my op, nothing about Kennedy in it, not only after a few replies and twisted words did u get a JFK too come out my mouth. Every conspiracy could be a 1,000 page book. I'm sorry i cant pull exact details and quotes out my ass and represent them for you too mangle some more but maybe someday. but the overall premise for the JFK assassination was because its rumored that hes was trying to rid the fed, get back to gold standard, and CIA, just basically along the lines of small government kinda like *Run for the Hills* Ron Paul.And we've all heard the JFK secret society speech, then maybe also an affair with Ms. Monroe done him in, who knows why he was actually killed. Same thing with 9/11, who ACTUALLY knows who did it? We sure as hell dont as common citizens we can think and believe all we want but we know that always isnt the case.
All in all it will always be the lone gunman.

[Brainache]

Maybe they think we're "retarded fat asses" because some of the more vocal Americans are ignorant, young, rambling idiots who have the grammar skills of 5 year olds and make absolutely no attempt to present themselves as adults.

Nah, we think Americans are retarded fat asses because of Jerry Springer, Rosie, Oprah and Dr Phil.

[fuelair]

Ugh i thought i might get a good discussion here about 9/11, War and conspiracy or w/e. Guess i was completely wrong and actually foreshadowed all this complete nonsense of picking my words apart and trying too make me feel like a fool. However the discussion i was trying to get into and calling myself a twoofer for was only replied by one person who mentioned that WKJO/Andrew Grove was already debunked, id really like too see all that information instead of just your word. And not the its a fictional film b.s argument.

Other then that i dont know what too say, time to go back too 3rd grade and retake spelling i guess. and everyone else have a merry journey through life, let experience lead the way.

*Puts on Thinking(Tin foil) cap"You do not have to take our word for it. Over just the year and 10 months I have been here there have been hundreds of pages explaining/debunking every point troofers from P'doh on made in the spirit of ignorance, incoherence, incompetance, malice AND which simply keep being repeated by "persons" who are either trolls or too lazy to read all the responces to all the lies/errors of other troofers. If you aren't willing to check the evidence already here in massive quantity, why should we waste time re-explaining it. You want answers, they're here. Dig 'em out yourself .

[WildCat]

the overall premise for the JFK assassination was because its rumored that hes was trying to rid the fed, get back to gold standard, and CIA, just basically along the lines of small government kinda like *Run for the Hills* Ron Paul.
You can repeat thsi all you want, but the fact remains that JFK was not trying to get rid of the Fed, nor was he trying to put the USA back on the gold standard.

What made you think he was?

And why don't you try to write like an adult who cares about his subject matter? You write like you're texting your g/f to pick you up some fried chicken on her way home from work.

[quixotecoyote]

You're a Twoofer!


It needed to be done.

[WildCat]

Nah, we think Americans are retarded fat asses because of Jerry Springer, Rosie, Oprah and Dr Phil.
How dare you compare Jerry Springer to those retarded fatasses!

On the Jerry Springer Show, the retarded fatasses are the guests, not the host.

[VespaGuy]

Nah, we think Americans are retarded fat asses because of Jerry Springer, Rosie, Oprah and Dr Phil.

Ok. I take back "young", but I stand by "the more vocal Americans are ignorant [...], rambling idiots"

[VespaGuy]

Is it any surprise that BlueKush isn't even accurate about WHEN 9/11 occured?

And wow 9/11 was 8 years ago case solved and shut

[Brainache]

How dare you compare Jerry Springer to those retarded fatasses!

On the Jerry Springer Show, the retarded fatasses are the guests, not the host.

Yeah sorry, I could have phrased that better. I did mean the guests on Springer.

[Pardalis]

ugh

[GreNME]

ugh because some people LOVE to NITPICK at words i have to at least give this response.Since you clearly cant read get some glasses and reread my op, nothing about Kennedy in it, not only after a few replies and twisted words did u get a JFK too come out my mouth. Every conspiracy could be a 1,000 page book. I'm sorry i cant pull exact details and quotes out my ass and represent them for you too mangle some more but maybe someday. but the overall premise for the JFK assassination was because its rumored that hes was trying to rid the fed, get back to gold standard, and CIA, just basically along the lines of small government kinda like *Run for the Hills* Ron Paul.And we've all heard the JFK secret society speech, then maybe also an affair with Ms. Monroe done him in, who knows why he was actually killed. Same thing with 9/11, who ACTUALLY knows who did it? We sure as hell dont as common citizens we can think and believe all we want but we know that always isnt the case.
All in all it will always be the lone gunman.

Bluekush,

While I understand that you are feeling like everything you are saying is being nitpicked all to heck and the meaning of what you're saying is being ignored, you need to understand that a lot of the problem lies in two major factors: the first is your unorthodox communication (the way you're writing what you are), and the second is the problem many people are having with the facts about the individual points you are trying to talk about. While I'm sure we can discuss the particulars of the second in friendly debate and discussion, the first is something only you can do something about. Do you understand what I'm getting at? I have no problem with talking about whichever of the many subjects you are interested in exploring, but I can't communicate with you effectively with your current structure of posts because we're going to wind up talking right past each other and nothing useful will be accomplished.

Can we work out a reasonable level of conversational standard that we can both agree to? That would be cool with me.

[Corsair 115]

Every conspiracy could be a 1,000 page book. I'm sorry i cant pull exact details and quotes out my ass and represent them for you too mangle some more but maybe someday.So you admit you came here unprepared to properly debate? That was not the wisest of choices given the amount of knowledge and expertise which some of the members of the JREF forum have in abundance.

[johnny karate]

Bluekush and tanabear, let's cut right to the chase:

As proponents of the theory that the U.S. government was really behind the 9/11 attacks, what useful and constructive actions have you taken to see that these vicious murderers are brought to justice?

[Bluekush623]

Nah, we think Americans are retarded fat asses because of Jerry Springer, Rosie, Oprah and Dr Phil.


exactly and Americans havent stood up to get that garbage nonsense of the tv, so its ALL of Americans fault corporations and citizens.

[HyJinX]

So Jerry Springer made the terrorists do it?

[Brainache]

exactly and Americans havent stood up to get that garbage nonsense of the tv, so its ALL of Americans fault corporations and citizens.

The only reason that garbage is on the TV is because people watch it. If people didn't watch, advertisers wouldn't pay and the shows would get cancelled. Don't forget that this rubbish is also popular in other countries. It's not only Americans watching this stuff.

If those networks were allowed to broadcast executions, they'd do it. The ratings would be phenomenal.

So do we blame the networks? The audience? The producers? All of the above?

And what does the lack of taste in the general population have to do with 9/11 being an inside job? It's about as relevant as the fact that someone somewhere is making money by printing pictures of Elvis on velvet: i.e. Not relevant at all.

[tanabear]

TAM writes, "I said so therefore I am correct, and since this all the proof you have, my argument is as good as yours."

"The collapse of WTC7 was different from WTC 1 and Wtc 2, which showered debris in a wide radius as their frames were essentially "peeled" outward. The collapse of WTC 7 had a small debris field as the facade was pulled downward, suggesting an internal failure and IMPLOSION."
FEMA Report Chapter 5

16.5 writes, "Well, cripes, aren't you just gonna call us useful idiots? Isn't that what you called Gravy?"

No. I assign names on a case by case basis. :) Mark Roberts in his video, "The Ground Zeros" did use several descriptive phrases to refer to members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. These names include, Ignoramus Profundis Nineelevenus, Ignoramus Horribilis Nineelevenus, and Moonbatia Nineelevenus.

Beachnut writes, "A 9/11 truth member, those who can't think for themselves who parrot mindlessly the ideas of 9/11 truth."

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.

[Drudgewire]

exactly and Americans havent stood up to get that garbage nonsense of the tv, so its ALL of Americans fault corporations and citizens.
I was about to go off but really Brainache beat me to the salient point.

Advertising dollars drive programming, and what lots of people want to watch command higher dollars than stuff a few people want to watch. If you'd prefer television only broadcast thought-provoking programs you're advocating a much more scary and simple method of controlling the masses than any of the illuminati/NWO/shadow government fantasies you're choosing to believe.

[Bluekush623]

The only reason that garbage is on the TV is because people watch it. If people didn't watch, advertisers wouldn't pay and the shows would get cancelled. Don't forget that this rubbish is also popular in other countries. It's not only Americans watching this stuff.

If those networks were allowed to broadcast executions, they'd do it. The ratings would be phenomenal.

So do we blame the networks? The audience? The producers? All of the above?

And what does the lack of taste in the general population have to do with 9/11 being an inside job? It's about as relevant as the fact that someone somewhere is making money by printing pictures of Elvis on velvet: i.e. Not relevant at all.

Well **** man im not a muslim or a christian but cmon are we for the news or arent we? thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources, as i was before i started researching 9/11 for MYSELF. So everything ive been told by the media is a lie, but theres no conspiracy? right!

If Muslim Extremists hijacked planes because of our freedom, its because our heads are so far up our asses then we dont know what real freedom is. And think its about being able to watch Springer. But then we go over to the middle east and start a war, while we are stripping them of there livelihood(freedom).

Springer and everything thats nonsense in the world is because of the world and everyone in it, Theres no body which placed Springer into our lives we created it, when are we actually gunna take responsibility for our actions and remove most of this nonsense from the mainstream. Mainstream is anything for another buck.

The lack of taste is somewhat relevant because it just shows how people go along to get along. Springer is there so ima watch it, if it wasnt who cares but instead we could try and create something useful then just entertainment to pass the time. Opportunism can be deadly when its involves someones Ego. If people thought 3,000 live could never be taken by the government when why the hell do we fight wars. They promote the killing of our own people, because hey it must be done.The terrorists attacked us so we gotta go kill there civilians. But WHO SAYS SO?

Our government doesnt listen to the people if so we woulda been out of the Middle East by now and Bush and Co. would immediately be impeached or sent to court for war crimes. But people wont stand up for what they have created and just let it run loose because they cant take the blame or fall.

[Arus808]

TAM writes, "I said so therefore I am correct, and since this all the proof you have, my argument is as good as yours."

"The collapse of WTC7 was different from WTC 1 and Wtc 2, which showered debris in a wide radius as their frames were essentially "peeled" outward. The collapse of WTC 7 had a small debris field as the facade was pulled downward, suggesting an internal failure and IMPLOSION."
FEMA Report Chapter 5

16.5 writes, "Well, cripes, aren't you just gonna call us useful idiots? Isn't that what you called Gravy?"

No. I assign names on a case by case basis. :) Mark Roberts in his video, "The Ground Zeros" did use several descriptive phrases to refer to members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. These names include, Ignoramus Profundis Nineelevenus, Ignoramus Horribilis Nineelevenus, and Moonbatia Nineelevenus.

Beachnut writes, "A 9/11 truth member, those who can't think for themselves who parrot mindlessly the ideas of 9/11 truth."

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.



there is a quote feature. Please use it.

[beachnut]

TAM writes, "I said so therefore I am correct, and since this all the proof you have, my argument is as good as yours."

"The collapse of WTC7 was different from WTC 1 and Wtc 2, which showered debris in a wide radius as their frames were essentially "peeled" outward. The collapse of WTC 7 had a small debris field as the facade was pulled downward, suggesting an internal failure and IMPLOSION."
FEMA Report Chapter 5

16.5 writes, "Well, cripes, aren't you just gonna call us useful idiots? Isn't that what you called Gravy?"

No. I assign names on a case by case basis. :) Mark Roberts in his video, "The Ground Zeros" did use several descriptive phrases to refer to members of the 9/11 Truth Movement. These names include, Ignoramus Profundis Nineelevenus, Ignoramus Horribilis Nineelevenus, and Moonbatia Nineelevenus.

Beachnut writes, "A 9/11 truth member, those who can't think for themselves who parrot mindlessly the ideas of 9/11 truth."

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.
Learn to use the quote button on the web page known as jref forum.
Same old story, you were a sheep, now you are a out of the box, open minded, self starter, think for yourself expert, parrot for 9/11 truth.

You call everyone else a government agent and fail to produce a single fact, or correct story for 9/11. Your belief in 9/11 truth is not knowledge based, but a like a cult following of lies and false information. Your lack of knowledge on the multitude of subject needed to understand 9/11 is enormous.

You can't think for yourself because you can't present one fact or piece of evidence to support the conclusions of 9/11 truth. You can't think for yourself because you lack the knowledge needed to form a rational though on 9/11.

[twinstead]

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.

So you think it's impossible for somebody to think for themselves and still think the 'official story' is the theory that fits ALL the available evidence the best?

You know there's some pretty smart people on this forum, people who REALLY understand the underlying science behind the event. These are people who not only say they believe in something, but can explain WHY.

Can you explain why you believe what you do? Can you provide a coherent alternative theory that fits ALL the available evidence better than the 'official story'.

And by the way, what IS the 'official story' anyway? Do you think we just accept what the government tells us no questions asked? Do you think there just may be a crap load of non-government related experts around the world who might have given 911 more than a passing glance in the last 6 years and DON'T think it was an 'inside job'?

[Bluekush623]

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.

ditto

[beachnut]

Well **** man im not a muslim or a christian but cmon are we for the news or arent we? thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources, as i was before i started researching 9/11 for MYSELF. So everything ive been told by the media is a lie, but theres no conspiracy? right!

If Muslim Extremists hijacked planes because of our freedom, its because our heads are so far up our asses then we dont know what real freedom is. And think its about being able to watch Springer. But then we go over to the middle east and start a war, while we are stripping them of there livelihood(freedom).

Springer and everything thats nonsense in the world is because of the world and everyone in it, Theres no body which placed Springer into our lives we created it, when are we actually gunna take responsibility for our actions and remove most of this nonsense from the mainstream. Mainstream is anything for another buck.

The lack of taste is somewhat relevant because it just shows how people go along to get along. Springer is there so ima watch it, if it wasnt who cares but instead we could try and create something useful then just entertainment to pass the time. Opportunism can be deadly when its involves someones Ego. If people thought 3,000 live could never be taken by the government when why the hell do we fight wars. They promote the killing of our own people, because hey it must be done.The terrorists attacked us so we gotta go kill there civilians. But WHO SAYS SO?

Our government doesnt listen to the people if so we woulda been out of the Middle East by now and Bush and Co. would immediately be impeached or sent to court for war crimes. But people wont stand up for what they have created and just let it run loose because they cant take the blame or fall.
Take your political rant and go to the political forum please. This is a CT sub forum and you have failed to come up with any real CT stuff.

You are in the wrong forum; Except the conspiracy of the liars and frauds you mention from 9/11 truth.

[twinstead]

ditto

I would bet money that you don't even know what the total 'official story' is, nor do you have any idea what evidence is in the public domain that supports it. I would also bet that you have NO idea just how your dreaded 'official story' is studied around the world by real engineers, nor how actual building codes are being changed because of it.

Pretty good for a pack of lies, huh?

Anyway, the reason why I don't think you know these things is you are an ideologue who has fooled himself into believing he is a 'free thinker'. Don't worry; it happens to the best of them.

Just a friendly hint: scrutinize the information you get from the truth movement as much as you do the 'official story'. You'd be surprised at what you'll find.

[Bluekush623]

So you think it's impossible for somebody to think for themselves and still think the 'official story' is the theory that fits ALL the available evidence the best?

You know there's some pretty smart people on this forum, people who REALLY understand the underlying science behind the event. These are people who not only say they believe in something, but can explain WHY.

Can you explain why you believe what you do? Can you provide a coherent alternative theory that fits ALL the available evidence better than the 'official story'.

And by the way, what IS the 'official story' anyway? Do you think we just accept what the government tells us no questions asked? Do you think there just may be a crap load of non-government related experts around the world who might have given 911 more than a passing glance in the last 6 years and DON'T think it was an 'inside job'?

Because the thinking for myself started when i didnt fully believe the MEDIA you know governments right hand man to spread the truth and news.

Well what does the JREF forum think what happened since the Offical Story and Controlled Demolition theory are both falsified? and i have seen no other thread which simply lays down what really happened by anyone, only that we should look to the "official report" for answers but watch out its not "official".

and you see this is why 9/11 starts so much confusion and gets yelled at for a new investigation, WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED? like i said every citizen shouldnt have to become a 9/11 expert to know what happened. Thats what our media and government are for, so if they arent doing there job why do you think so many people yell conspiracy, and inside job. darn critical thinkers.

[WildCat]

thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources, as i was before i started researching 9/11 for MYSELF.
The Stundies keep flowing out of this guy like water over Niagara Falls!

[Bluekush623]

Take your political rant and go to the political forum please. This is a CT sub forum and you have failed to come up with any real CT stuff.

You are in the wrong forum; Except the conspiracy of the liars and frauds you mention from 9/11 truth.

except you clearly dont understand what a conspiracy is.

[twinstead]

like i said every citizen shouldnt have to become a 9/11 expert to know what happened. Thats what our media and government are for, so if they arent doing there job why do you think so many people yell conspiracy, and inside job. darn critical thinkers.

If you want to claim that the US government killed 3000 innocent people and faked a terrorist attack you DAMN well better become an expert on 9/11, cause there are a lot of people who ARE who will vehemently disagree--you'd better be able to plead your case or you will just look like a fool. An ideologically biased fool. Is that what you want? Do you care?

[Brainache]

Well **** man im not a muslim or a christian but cmon are we for the news or arent we? thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources, as i was before i started researching 9/11 for MYSELF. So everything ive been told by the media is a lie, but theres no conspiracy? right!

If Muslim Extremists hijacked planes because of our freedom, its because our heads are so far up our asses then we dont know what real freedom is. And think its about being able to watch Springer. But then we go over to the middle east and start a war, while we are stripping them of there livelihood(freedom).

Springer and everything thats nonsense in the world is because of the world and everyone in it, Theres no body which placed Springer into our lives we created it, when are we actually gunna take responsibility for our actions and remove most of this nonsense from the mainstream. Mainstream is anything for another buck.

The lack of taste is somewhat relevant because it just shows how people go along to get along. Springer is there so ima watch it, if it wasnt who cares but instead we could try and create something useful then just entertainment to pass the time. Opportunism can be deadly when its involves someones Ego. If people thought 3,000 live could never be taken by the government when why the hell do we fight wars. They promote the killing of our own people, because hey it must be done.The terrorists attacked us so we gotta go kill there civilians. But WHO SAYS SO?

Our government doesnt listen to the people if so we woulda been out of the Middle East by now and Bush and Co. would immediately be impeached or sent to court for war crimes. But people wont stand up for what they have created and just let it run loose because they cant take the blame or fall.

So stop watching Springer etc. Get your news from PBS. Subscribe to a public broadcaster. Make your own quality programs and sell them to the networks.

Sitting here whingeing on an internet forum isn't going to change the world.

What have you done to make the world a better place?

There was no Gov't conspiracy on 9/11. The people who have told you that there was are lying to you.

There may very well have been a conspiracy after the fact to try to cover up some incompetence/flaws in the system of intelligence gathering. It still doesn't mean an inside job.

I think the US government under GWB has made some of the stupidest choices it possibly could have after 9/11, but as everyone else has pointed out, this is for Politics, not CT.

[WildCat]

why do you think so many people yell conspiracy, and inside job.
Frankly, most of them are just stupid. You don't do yourself any favors by writing like a 6 year old either. Have you ever learned how to use the "shift" key? Know the difference between "to", "too", and "two"? "Their", "they're" and "there"?

If you can't figure these things out, why the hell should we take you seriously on things more complicated? Especially since you've offered nothing to back up your assertions, which simply parrot truther sites.

[twinstead]

I would suggest bluekush go to the politics forum, but those folks would eat him alive. I wouldn't wish the politics forum on my worst enemy ;)

[Newtons Bit]

Ugh you guys cmon read what i have too say. I BELIEVE no claims either CD or Pancake, 9/11 was something bigger then buildings falling down due to an attack. Im here trying to start a convo on WKJO/Andrew Grove and the conspiracy of wars.

this is exactly what i meant in my OP, the definition of conspiracy is all wish-washed from its original meaning. I keep getting butchered because i cant claim a false or negative for why the towers fell, which has become the ultimate conspiracy. instead of trying to get a view of the whole picture on the war on terrorism and drugs. And how the towers came done is irrelevant because Muslim Terrorists still could have placed bombs in each complex, ensuring the collapse(although very unlikely), but the topic has been whether terrorists with planes, or the government with bombs took down the buildings.

You've rejected the combined consensus of just about every single engineer in the nation. You've rejected the work of the major engineering societies, ASCE, SEA, AISC, etc. You say you don't think JONES is necessarily right, but by rejecting the combined worked of the people who actually design and build buildings that you occupy you have rejected common sense in favor of fantasy. Even the idea that the terrorists planted the bombs is a fantasy because there were no bombs. No bombs are seen in the explosions and more importantly, THEY WEREN'T HEARD.

If you don't understand why something specific happened in the collapse, fine. Ask questions on it. There's plenty of people here who will help educate you in the finer points of engineering and physics.

But at this point, you're acting like someone who thinks that if a nutcase disagrees with the vast consensus of scientists, then the nutcase is on to something. You're completely forgetting the fact that the nutcase is in fact a nutcase.

[Mr.D]

All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints,


So, technically speaking WTC1,2 did not fall into their own footprint.


Who's correct?

Please discuss politely (start your own thread if you wish!) and when one of you convinces the other of their position, come back and we can move on to clarify the next bit of your nonsensical verbal diarrhea.

(Oh, and welcome, by the way)

[Bluekush623]

So you admit you came here unprepared to properly debate? That was not the wisest of choices given the amount of knowledge and expertise which some of the members of the JREF forum have in abundance.


this is why the majority of the posts in this thread are non-sense just like all other topics on this forum which become accumulated with so much garbage threads then become impossible to read. I never came here to debate, i came with my knowledge of the events before, on and after 9/11, which was all directly related as too where the money trail lead, referenced by the works of WKJO and Andrew Grove, then all the collapse experts came jumping out the barrel too flame and nitpick my words when i never made a claim about the collapses.

SO PEOPLE, PLEASE READ MY OP FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE CONCERNING THIS THREAD. IM NOT INDULGING IN KIDS PLAY.YOUR WORD GAMES ARE NO MORE FUNNIER AND DEBATABLE THEN WHAT WORDS THE GOVERNMENT USES IN ITS LAWS.

I tried to write my OP as simple and quick as possible without writing a book, so if its incomprehensible i feel sorry for you, really. even if i got horrible grammar you still should be able to understand, since you can critically think so damn good. Theres also a law maxim which states bad grammar doesnt invalidate something. Writing is a skill, you might think its supposed to be hella easy and simple, but i think the same about playing sports. I know you all have been trained to repeat something till you get it right and have it lodged in your memory to never forget and repeat whenever needed. But hey we all got our strong points.

I also hope you guys know i didnt come hear to try and change your mind for my idea, oh no. But i merely wanted to hear what evidence you have to the topic/contrary so i could help myself get a better understanding of the topics. If i were to change your mind it would be from my simple thought to you experiencing it and acknowledging it. Not forcing it on you like you all try to do.

all in all i dont know what to say, theres a few people who seem they can hold a good convo but Edited for civility who dont read and critically think well and just blurt out the same things over and over(Debunkers and Twoofers have SOOOOO much in common).Like i said if you done it so much please leave so we can have some posts over a sentence long. You all just hop on the ima a critical thinkers bandwagon and follow what engineers/physicist's say because they know the truth, without you actually knowing anything about the subject ie experience being a engineer/physicist. So how many actual people here can fully in depth explain 9/11 from a real scientific P.O.V maybe 5-10 people who are the engineers/physicists? Or is everyone a engineer/physicist.


AND FOR THE LAST TIME I NEVER CLAIMED CONSPIRACY/COVER UP/INSIDE JOB/BUSH DID IT.SERIOUSLY READ, READ, THEN REREAD IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND MY OP OR LEAVE. YOU DONT HAVE TO COMMENT LIKE YOU SO HATE DOING BECAUSE YOU DID IT 1,000 TIMES BEFORE WITH EVERY TWOOFER.

FOR ALL I KNOW MUSLIM EXTREMIST TERRORISTS ATTACKED OUR BUILDING. BUT WHO WAS THE COACH AND LEAGUE BEHIND IT ALL. I CAME IN HERE WITH TOPICS FROM WKJO and ANDREW GROVE SUGGESTING THAT THEY MIGHT BE A DRUG SMUGGLING RING IN DISGUISE AS TERRORISTS. BUT AGAIN NO ONE EXCEPT A FEW POSTS EVEN TOUCHED THAT SUBJECT.WHY?

Edited for civility READ MY ANOMALY PART AND I THOUGHT I WAS CLAIMING THEM AS EVIDENCE, WHICH I DID NOT. BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY CANT READ.

and the DEFINITION of CONSPIRACY ONE LAST TIME

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Lies are a conspiracy which involves everyday life, remember a conspiracy is not some wild out theory that defys the laws of nature. which can never be proven.
BUSINESS IS A CONSPIRACY, because somebody has to come out on the lower end for the other too succeed.

[WildCat]

this is why the majority of the posts in this thread are non-sense just like all other topics on this forum which become accumulated with so much garbage threads then become impossible to read. I never came here to debate, i came with my knowledge of the events before, on and after 9/11, which was all directly related as too where the money trail lead, referenced by the works of WKJO and Andrew Grove, then all the collapse experts came jumping out the barrel too flame and nitpick my words when i never made a claim about the collapses.

SO PEOPLE, PLEASE READ MY OP FOR ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE CONCERNING THIS THREAD. IM NOT INDULGING IN KIDS PLAY.YOUR WORD GAMES ARE NO MORE FUNNIER AND DEBATABLE THEN WHAT WORDS THE GOVERNMENT USES IN ITS LAWS.

I tried to write my OP as simple and quick as possible without writing a book, so if its incomprehensible i feel sorry for you, really. even if i got horrible grammar you still should be able to understand, since you can critically think so damn good. Theres also a law maxim which states bad grammar doesnt invalidate something. Writing is a skill, you might think its supposed to be hella easy and simple, but i think the same about playing sports. I know you all have been trained to repeat something till you get it right and have it lodged in your memory to never forget and repeat whenever needed. But hey we all got our strong points.

I also hope you guys know i didnt come hear to try and change your mind for my idea, oh no. But i merely wanted to hear what evidence you have to the topic/contrary so i could help myself get a better understanding of the topics. If i were to change your mind it would be from my simple thought to you experiencing it and acknowledging it. Not forcing it on you like you all try to do.

all in all i dont know what to say, theres a few people who seem they can hold a good convo but Edited for civility who dont read and critically think well and just blurt out the same things over and over(Debunkers and Twoofers have SOOOOO much in common).Like i said if you done it so much please leave so we can have some posts over a sentence long. You all just hop on the ima a critical thinkers bandwagon and follow what engineers/physicist's say because they know the truth, without you actually knowing anything about the subject ie experience being a engineer/physicist. So how many actual people here can fully in depth explain 9/11 from a real scientific P.O.V maybe 5-10 people who are the engineers/physicists? Or is everyone a engineer/physicist.


AND FOR THE LAST TIME I NEVER CLAIMED CONSPIRACY/COVER UP/INSIDE JOB/BUSH DID IT.SERIOUSLY READ, READ, THEN REREAD IF YOU DONT UNDERSTAND MY OP OR LEAVE. YOU DONT HAVE TO COMMENT LIKE YOU SO HATE DOING BECAUSE YOU DID IT 1,000 TIMES BEFORE WITH EVERY TWOOFER.

FOR ALL I KNOW MUSLIM EXTREMIST TERRORISTS ATTACKED OUR BUILDING. BUT WHO WAS THE COACH AND LEAGUE BEHIND IT ALL. I CAME IN HERE WITH TOPICS FROM WKJO and ANDREW GROVE SUGGESTING THAT THEY MIGHT BE A DRUG SMUGGLING RING IN DISGUISE AS TERRORISTS. BUT AGAIN NO ONE EXCEPT A FEW POSTS EVEN TOUCHED THAT SUBJECT.WHY?

Edited for civility READ MY ANOMALY PART AND I THOUGHT I WAS CLAIMING THEM AS EVIDENCE, WHICH I DID NOT. BECAUSE YOU CLEARLY CANT READ.

and the DEFINITION of CONSPIRACY ONE LAST TIME

1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design: a conspiracy of wind and tide that devastated coastal areas.

Lies are a conspiracy which involves everyday life, remember a conspiracy is not some wild out theory that defys the laws of nature. which can never be proven.
BUSINESS IS A CONSPIRACY, because somebody has to come out on the lower end for the other too succeed.
Whatever public school you went to should be demolished, and the teachers not allowed anywhere near another classroom for as long as they live.

[Arus808]

seeing that bluekush doesn't understand what the difference between a conspiracy and a conspiracy theory is, yes, whatever school he graduated from, should revoke his diploma

[Mr.D]

You all just hop on the ima a critical thinkers bandwagon and follow what engineers/physicist's say because they know the truth, without you actually knowing anything about the subject ie experience being a engineer/physicist. So how many actual people here can fully in depth explain 9/11 from a real scientific P.O.V maybe 5-10 people who are the engineers/physicists? Or is everyone a engineer/physicist.


http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70895 You'd be hard pressed to find a 9/11-related group that wasn't part of the "official investigations" that's larger, more diverse with more relevant experience and education than the CT subforum of JREF.

(The list is slightly inaccurate in my case: I finished all the coursework and some of the research for a Ph.D. in High-Energy Neutrino Physics, but left the program before finishing the degree.)

Honestly though, all you really need is a good grasp of high-school senior level physics to understand why 85+% of the TM stuff out there doesn't even rise to the level of failing the laugh test.

[fuelair]

Have we officially called TROLL on Bluetush666 yet?

[dudalb]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70895 You'd be hard pressed to find a 9/11-related group that wasn't part of the "official investigations" that's larger, more diverse with more relevant experience and education than the CT subforum of JREF.

(The list is slightly inaccurate in my case: I finished all the coursework and some of the research for a Ph.D. in High-Energy Neutrino Physics, but left the program before finishing the degree.)

Honestly though, all you really need is a good grasp of high-school senior level physics to understand why 85+% of the TM stuff out there doesn't even rise to the level of failing the laugh test.

Hell, he needs a good grasp of Junior High Level English Grammer a lot more then he needs Senior High School levell Physics..though he certainly needs that too.
IF Bluskush is what American schools are turning out,be scared.Be very,very,scared.

[TheRedWorm]

Have we officially called TROLL on Bluetush666 yet?


He could be the CIP (conspiratorially inclined person(s)) equivalent of a Poe's Law.

[Childlike Empress]

Well **** man im not a muslim or a christian but cmon are we for the news or arent we? thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources, as i was before i started researching 9/11 for MYSELF. So everything ive been told by the media is a lie, but theres no conspiracy? right!

If Muslim Extremists hijacked planes because of our freedom, its because our heads are so far up our asses then we dont know what real freedom is. And think its about being able to watch Springer. But then we go over to the middle east and start a war, while we are stripping them of there livelihood(freedom).

Springer and everything thats nonsense in the world is because of the world and everyone in it, Theres no body which placed Springer into our lives we created it, when are we actually gunna take responsibility for our actions and remove most of this nonsense from the mainstream. Mainstream is anything for another buck.

The lack of taste is somewhat relevant because it just shows how people go along to get along. Springer is there so ima watch it, if it wasnt who cares but instead we could try and create something useful then just entertainment to pass the time. Opportunism can be deadly when its involves someones Ego. If people thought 3,000 live could never be taken by the government when why the hell do we fight wars. They promote the killing of our own people, because hey it must be done.The terrorists attacked us so we gotta go kill there civilians. But WHO SAYS SO?

Our government doesnt listen to the people if so we woulda been out of the Middle East by now and Bush and Co. would immediately be impeached or sent to court for war crimes. But people wont stand up for what they have created and just let it run loose because they cant take the blame or fall.


You, my friend, are part of the solution. Most people here don't even know what the problem is because they are trapped in a very unhealthy believe system. They run to the doctor to make him give speed to them in order to overcome the absurd, ignorant, laughable BS they took for the truth after they managed to quit the idiotic abrahamic religious mindset. Don't blame them, they have enough problems themselves.

[Unsecured Coins]

Run "the solution" by me again. I seem to have missed it.

[TheRedWorm]

Run "the solution" by me again. I seem to have missed it.



Sitting on your [10] and posting on an internet forum, of course.

[Pardalis]

Have we officially called TROLL on Bluetush666 yet?

I wouldn't necessarily call him that. He seems to want to say something, but doesn't seem to be able to organize and articulate his thoughts clearly so a real conversation can ensue.

He seems to say that we cannot know what happened on 9/11 yet he wants to have a conversation about what happened on 9/11, at the same time he admits he wouldn't be able to tell either way... :boggled:

[Unsecured Coins]

ooooooooooooooooooooooooh yeah

[Pardalis]

Sitting on your [10] and posting on an internet forum, of course.

Heckling political figures at speeches is about the most pro-active thing they have ever done, which is not saying much.

[tanabear]

Who's correct?

Please discuss politely (start your own thread if you wish!) and when one of you convinces the other of their position, come back and we can move on to clarify the next bit of your nonsensical verbal diarrhea.

(Oh, and welcome, by the way)

It is more or less a matter of semantics. The demolition wave went straight down through the building. So in that sense it "collapsed" into it's own footprint. As the demolition wave went down through the building, it pulverized the non-metallic parts of the building and blew a significant amount outside the buildings footprint. The word "collapse" is not adequate to explain all the dynamics of the the destruction of WTC 1 and 2.

So what is your position? Did WTC1,2 "collapse" in its own footprint or not?

[TheRedWorm]

Heckling political figures at speeches is about the most pro-active thing they have ever done, which is not saying much.


Hecklers for truth doesn't have much of a ring to it.

[VespaGuy]

... thats where THE MAJORITY of unintelligent people get there sources...

unintelligent people? Like the kind that don't know the difference between "there" and "their"? or "to" and "too"?

[Pardalis]

You, my friend, are part of the solution.

Someone who admittedly doesn't know anything about the topics at hand, and doesn't even know what he wants to say and how to say it is part of the solution?

No wonder the TM is a joke.

[johnny karate]

Bluekush and tanabear, let's cut right to the chase:

As proponents of the theory that the U.S. government was really behind the 9/11 attacks, what useful and constructive actions have you taken to see that these vicious murderers are brought to justice?

Bump for Bluekush and tanabear. And Childlike Empress, I'd like a response from you as well, please.

[VespaGuy]

You all just hop on the ima a critical thinkers bandwagon and follow what engineers/physicist's say because they know the truth, without you actually knowing anything about the subject ie experience being a engineer/physicist. So how many actual people here can fully in depth explain 9/11 from a real scientific P.O.V maybe 5-10 people who are the engineers/physicists? Or is everyone a engineer/physicist.

Everyone? no. But there are quite a few here. Many others specialize in fields that directly relate to one aspect of 9/11 or another. I, for one, was a structural designer, specializing in floor and roof trusses.

As for many of the posters here, check out this thread: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=70895. There are engineers of all types, architects, and lots of other professionals (I am constantly humbled by the knowledge on this forum). Just name the field you want to discuss; I'm sure there is a professional here that can speak at length with you if you are serious about learning.

(And feel free to add your 9/11 expertise to that thread. )

[mortimer]

I believed the official 9/11 story at one time. I started to doubt the official story sometime in late 2003. It is hard to say when I became completely convinced, but it has been a couple of years. If I wasn't able to think for myself I would still believe the official 9/11 story.

Interesting. What was the "official 9/11 story" in late 2003? The 9/11 Commission Report didn't come out until August 2004, and the NIST report on WTC1&2 didn't come out until 2005.

[Newtons Bit]

So how many actual people here can fully in depth explain 9/11 from a real scientific P.O.V maybe 5-10 people who are the engineers/physicists? Or is everyone a engineer/physicist.

I can explain it, and have in some degree in various posts. There are quite a few of us here who are engineers or physicists or architects, etc. We generally perfer to let peoples arguments stand or fall on their own arguments, and not use the generic appeal to authority by shouting, "I R PHYSICIST HEAR ME AND BELIEVE!" This is what grammar and ability to perform coherent sentences and proper arguments is important.

[Bluekush623]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America. AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW, FOR THEY ARE LONGER THERE AND WE CANT LOOK THROUGH BUILDINGS TO SEE WHAT, AND WHEN EACH PART OF THE BUILDING FELL APART OR COLLAPSED AT A CERTAIN TIME/PLACE. Im not claiming we will never know what it took to bring down the towers, because it was explosions, fire,fuel and gravity. But to say 10,000 gallons of jet fuel caused the steel to be weaken is idiotic, because you have no clue how much fuel actually weakened a certain amount of steel. We we will never have exact a timeline of the internal damage. If you say we can you more nuttier then the Death Ray, No plane people. If so the 9/11 report and NIST should be delivered to every house hold.

So again im not claiming either collapse theory or research, when are you guys gunna understand that. Or does a person have to pick one?

[Childlike Empress]

I'd like a response from you as well, please.


Well, i've tried to speak some sense into certain ignorant sheep, but it didn't work. At the moment, i'm trying to achieve something with those guys (http://globalmarshallplan.org/what/five_minutes/index_eng.html).

And you, only sitting on your ass in deep denial? "No no no, everythings fine, as long as i'm fine"? Little isle of sanity in an unsane - random chance! random chance! - world? Depressing.

[Bluekush623]

Bump for Bluekush and tanabear. And Childlike Empress, I'd like a response from you as well, please.


sorry, please read OP. I find all you debunkers have a hard time reading and just jump on the next Twoofer.

[tanabear]

If you want to claim that the US government killed 3000 innocent people and faked a terrorist attack you DAMN well better become an expert on 9/11, cause there are a lot of people who ARE who will vehemently disagree--you'd better be able to plead your case or you will just look like a fool. An ideologically biased fool. Is that what you want? Do you care?

It would be more accurate to say that certain people within the US government were responsible for 9/11 than just saying the US government. Also it may have included many people who were not on the US government payroll. Nevertheless, some of the same cadre of people who were responsible for 9/11 could have also been responsible for lying us into a war in Iraq. If a certain cabal uses lies, deceit and propaganda to start a war for pre-existing ideological reasons, then it is appropriate to be suspicious of such people in other matters.

p.s. As well, anybody that knows anything about the history of the 20th century knows that government's killing their own people is something that never ever happened. :)

[HyJinX]

It would be more accurate to say that certain people within the US government were responsible for 9/11 than just saying the US government. Also it may have included many people who were not on the US government payroll. Nevertheless, some of the same cadre of people who were responsible for 9/11 could have also been responsible for lying us into a war in Iraq. If a certain cabal uses lies, deceit and propaganda to start a war for pre-existing ideological reasons, then it is appropriate to be suspicious of such people in other matters.

p.s. As well, anybody that knows anything about the history of the 20th century knows that government's killing their own people is something that never ever happened. :)

Who, specifically?

[Pardalis]

Well, i've tried to speak some sense into certain ignorant sheep, but it didn't work. At the moment, i'm trying to achieve something with those guys (http://globalmarshallplan.org/what/five_minutes/index_eng.html).

And what on earth does this have to do with 9/11 being an inside job?

ETA: oh and by the way, I regularly donate to Greenpeace, the World Wildlife Fund, the World Food Program, Médecins Sans Frontières and CECI.

[Childlike Empress]

And what on earth does this have to do with 9/11 being an inside job?

ETA: oh and by the way, I regularly donate to Greenpeace, the World Wildlife Fund, the World Food Program, Médecins Sans Frontières and CECI.


What do you think i can do in Germany? Start a movement? For what? At least i'm not undermining the efforts of responsible american citizens, like you are, little brainwashed canadian.

[Pardalis]

What do you think i can do in Germany? Start a movement? At least i'm not undermining the efforts of responsible american citizens, like you are, little brainwashed canadian.

What does 9/11 being an "inside job" have to do with what you just posted?

Can't you answer a simple question?

[WildCat]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America. AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW, FOR THEY ARE LONGER THERE AND WE CANT LOOK THROUGH BUILDINGS TO SEE WHAT, AND WHEN EACH PART OF THE BUILDING FELL APART OR COLLAPSED AT A CERTAIN TIME/PLACE. Im not claiming we will never know what it took to bring down the towers, because it was explosions, fire,fuel and gravity. But to say 10,000 gallons of jet fuel caused the steel to be weaken is idiotic, because you have no clue how much fuel actually weakened a certain amount of steel. We we will never have exact a timeline of the internal damage. If you say we can you more nuttier then the Death Ray, No plane people. If so the 9/11 report and NIST should be delivered to every house hold.

So again im not claiming either collapse theory or research, when are you guys gunna understand that. Or does a person have to pick one?
So you came here to tell us you don't know anything. Isn't that special!

[johnny karate]

Well, i've tried to speak some sense into certain ignorant sheep, but it didn't work. At the moment, i'm trying to achieve something with those guys (http://globalmarshallplan.org/what/five_minutes/index_eng.html).

Well, I suppose that's something, so I'll give you credit for that. However, wouldn't it make more sense to contact perhaps [url=http://www.interpol.int/]Interpol[/i] or maybe one of the many foreign media outlets in countries unfriendly to the U.S.? You know, someone in a position to actually do something.

And you, only sitting on your ass in deep denial? "No no no, everythings fine, as long as i'm fine"? Little isle of sanity in an unsane - random chance! random chance! - world? Depressing.

For a "little isle" it certainly encompasses a lot of geography considering that it includes pretty much the whole damn planet.

Besides, convincing sheeple like me is pointless. Who you need to convince are people in positions to actually do something, or at the very least lend credibility to your claims, like those I referenced above.

Good luck with that.

[beachnut]

You, my friend, are part of the solution. Most people here don't even know what the problem is because they are trapped in a very unhealthy believe system. They run to the doctor to make him give speed to them in order to overcome the absurd, ignorant, laughable BS they took for the truth after they managed to quit the idiotic abrahamic religious mindset. Don't blame them, they have enough problems themselves.
jref people who think for themselves=unhealthy belief system according to CE.

Yes CE, it is better if we all believe 9/11 truth lies like you?

lol, you support a person unable (as bad as I) to express the simplest ideas and use facts to support the numerous errors he continues to post open-loop.

Your support is self critiquing.

for CE, brainwashed Canadian=knowledgeable person

[VespaGuy]

... WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW [...] Im not claiming we will never know what it took to bring down the towers.

Stundie-licious!

[HyJinX]

Beautiful. Simply beautiful.

[WildCat]

Beautiful. Simply beautiful.
I think we're officially scraping the bottom of the barrel now. Of course, troofers have surprised me before when I thought they couldn't get any dumber.

[kookbreaker]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America.

The Federal government may put out mandates and add funding to public schools, but it is ultimately up to the local administrations to make any good out of them.

Finally, some folks just don't make any good out of what they have.

Seriously, BlueKush, I've encountered people from some of the worst schools in the badlands of Philadelphia who can write better than you.

Stop blaming other people.

[Pardalis]

What does 9/11 being an "inside job" have to do with what you just posted?

Can't you answer a simple question?

Hello?

Montréal calling Ivory Tower, Montréal calling Ivory Tower. Do you read?

[Childlike Empress]

Well, I suppose that's something, so I'll give you credit for that. However, wouldn't it make more sense to contact perhaps [url=http://www.interpol.int/]Interpol[/i] or maybe one of the many foreign media outlets in countries unfriendly to the U.S.? You know, someone in a position to actually do something.


We only have circumstantial evidence, no proof of any alternative theory. Therefore the constant requests of frightened sheep for an alternative, coherent story by us or for random 911 skeptics to take their evidence to court is laughably unrealistic. We need numbers, we need a majority or at least a significant minority to request a new investigation. And before you drop the equally boresome canard that we wouldn't accept any commission, why not give it a try? I mean, 300 million people in Murika, there must be someone with no close ties to the bush and ibn saud families?

Why give these criminals around Bush the benefit of the doubt? Why assume in the middle of the lies they've told there is a little island of truth, 911?

@nut: LOL back :)

edit @pardalis: don't waste my time, kid.

[Mr.D]

It is more or less a matter of semantics. The demolition wave went straight down through the building. So in that sense it "collapsed" into it's own footprint. As the demolition wave went down through the building, it pulverized the non-metallic parts of the building and blew a significant amount outside the buildings footprint. The word "collapse" is not adequate to explain all the dynamics of the the destruction of WTC 1 and 2.


Ok, and for a counterpoint, let's take a look at what Bluekush623 thinks:


AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW, FOR THEY ARE LONGER THERE AND WE CANT LOOK THROUGH BUILDINGS TO SEE WHAT, AND WHEN EACH PART OF THE BUILDING FELL APART OR COLLAPSED AT A CERTAIN TIME/PLACE.


Huh. Seems like Bluekush623 has a problem with you.



Bluekush623: Please explain to tanabear why it is impossible for his explanation to be provable.

tanabear: Please explain to Bluekush623 how you know your description of the collapses is correct and knowable.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one feel no need to address either of your questions until you can agree with each other.

[HyJinX]

I've always said...if overactive imaginations were a true, valuable art form, the truthers would occupy a building, the size of the louvre, filled with a virtual cornucopia of Picassos of idiocy. I've come to find them entertaining. Not relevant...but extremely entertaining.

[Brainache]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America. AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW, FOR THEY ARE LONGER THERE AND WE CANT LOOK THROUGH BUILDINGS TO SEE WHAT, AND WHEN EACH PART OF THE BUILDING FELL APART OR COLLAPSED AT A CERTAIN TIME/PLACE. Im not claiming we will never know what it took to bring down the towers, because it was explosions, fire,fuel and gravity. But to say 10,000 gallons of jet fuel caused the steel to be weaken is idiotic, because you have no clue how much fuel actually weakened a certain amount of steel. We we will never have exact a timeline of the internal damage. If you say we can you more nuttier then the Death Ray, No plane people. If so the 9/11 report and NIST should be delivered to every house hold.

So again im not claiming either collapse theory or research, when are you guys gunna understand that. Or does a person have to pick one?

Well you see there are people in the world who went to University for years to study things like why buildings stay up and why buildings fall down. There are other people who went to University and studied the effects of fires. Some people have even been to University and studied History and Politics. These are the kinds of people who can analyse the evidence of what happened that day and draw conclusions from it.

On the other hand we have people in the world who went to highschool and tried their hardest not to learn a thing. They seem to think they know all they need to know already and that even if some other bloke has studied engineering or architecture for years that bloke can't know any more than them.

I know who I'd choose to design my building.

[Pardalis]

edit @pardalis: don't waste my time, kid.

You're the one coming here and not adding anything to the debate, child.

[beachnut]

We only have circumstantial evidence, no proof of any alternative theory. ....
No, you have zero evidence at all. You are confusing hearsay, made up ideas with evidence.

[Bluekush623]

So you came here to tell us you don't know anything. Isn't that special!

ugh i feel for you wildcat, please read. Once again I came here too discuss WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail, but all you JREFers STILL miss that point.

200 replies later... STILL...Have you read every report? if not shut up, you damn twoofer, you dont know what your talking about, shut up and go read.

There may be a few people here, who can actually read and discuss the issues i wanted too. But everyone is wasting my time with the 1 sentence burns that cram up every thread.

Seriously though i really thought i could get a good discussion, but looks like debunkers/twoofers do the same thing and argue over meaningless points.

Still cant believe everyone was nailing me for calling out suspected anomalies to the untrained eye, even if they are a million years old, leave and dont answer them then. And ESPECIALLY when i say that whatever brought the towers down DOESNT matter, everyone somehow thinks im calling a CD. Lmao

Seems as much derailing ive had here i should just call it a CD, jesus. Wait hes gotta be real too because a book was written about him from the word of god.

And as far as 9/11 being a "Inside Job", all it takes is one American working with the terrorists and its a cover-up.

I dont know though, im done now, spent a whole day just trying to get everyone here too understand my OP. Since everyone is a great critical thinker, who cant even decipher middle school grammar i had to vigorously explain my position, for no reason, just because Critical Thinkers cant read. Really pathetic people.


"Those living for death will die by their own hand"

[johnny karate]

We only have circumstantial evidence, no proof of any alternative theory. Therefore the constant requests of frightened sheep for an alternative, coherent story by us or for random 911 skeptics to take their evidence to court is laughably unrealistic. We need numbers, we need a majority or at least a significant minority to request a new investigation. And before you drop the equally boresome canard that we wouldn't accept any commission, why not give it a try? I mean, 300 million people in Murika, there must be someone with no close ties to the bush and ibn saud families?

Why give these criminals around Bush the benefit of the doubt? Why assume in the middle of the lies they've told there is a little island of truth, 911?

Well, your understanding of how the criminal justice system works is staggeringly poor. I assure you it is not democratic. You do not need some kind of consensus or public demand before you can investigate a crime. You need evidence.

That your movement has failed spectacularly to produce any evidence sufficient to get anyone in a position to do so interested in launching a new investigation should really tell you something.

And as far as a new commission is concerned, I have no canard to offer you. Only my sincere best wishes that you can make it happen. But from what I've seen from your movement, I'm not holding my breath.

[Pardalis]

I came here too discuss WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail

What about them?

[johnny karate]

sorry, please read OP. I find all you debunkers have a hard time reading and just jump on the next Twoofer.

I saw nothing in that post that addresses my question. It still stands.

[Brainache]

...
I dont know though, im done now, spent a whole day just trying to get everyone here too understand my OP. Since everyone is a great critical thinker, who cant even decipher middle school grammar i had to vigorously explain my position, for no reason, just because Critical Thinkers cant read. Really pathetic people.




I think the problem is more that Bluekush can't write. Most of the people here can read well enough to get degrees and stuff from big schools (not middle schools), so really if your ideas aren't getting across, don't blame us. Learn how to express yourself and it will save you a lot of aggravation.

[Arus808]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America.

I went to public school and I learned what critical thinking is. Seems that public education has gone down the tubes since 1992.



AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGSUm, WE already know what brought down the buildings; or did you miss those 2 huge airplanes crashing into them, setting several floors aflame, causing the structural integrity of them to weaken, which lead to their collapse.


Would you please read the NIST report. Its that report that has cHANGEd much of the building codes in the last 7 years. Building codes that are now being observed by nearly every civilized nation on this planet.

IF nist was wrong about their report, dont you think that those relying on their suggested changes, would be questioning why the are making these suggestions in the first place?

[kookbreaker]

ugh i feel for you wildcat, please read. Once again I came here too discuss WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail, but all you JREFers STILL miss that point.


Please. Spare us your lies and your whining.

Your search for a 'discussion' on Andrew Grove consisted of the following in your OP:

Too follow the "money trail" I feel Who killed John Oneil and don't brush it of since its a "fictional" film dealing with facts, is a vital film. Ty Rauber one of creators promotes the film as "evidence" and also whistle blower Andrew Grove gets into alot of the same companies.I cant name names yet or back there info 100%, but as i continue my learning process ill get better and learn

Which is not a request for a discussion, it is a flat, unsupported statement, admist 9 paragraphs of babbling, incoherant conspiracy ramblings such as :


All 3 buildings also fell at free-fallish speeds directly into there footprints, and all 3 buildings were smoldering piles of concrete and steel from 2 airplanes, but shouldn't all 3 collapse sites be virtually be different in comparisons since there all a pancake?Then we get a hole at Shanksville missing the 10,000 gallons of jet fuel raging inferno that can melt steel since a engine or pot has never melted.Were told the tower pancaked down but wheres the stacked floors, could ever bolt and joint just snap at once, its a 100+ foot

You weren't looking for a discussion, you were looking for a place to rant. Your lack of skills turned your rant into babblefest.

[Childlike Empress]

Well, you're understanding of how the criminal justice system works is staggeringly poor. I assure you it is not democratic. You do not need some kind of consensus or public demand before you can investigate a crime. You need evidence.

That your movement has failed spectacularly to produce any evidence sufficient to get anyone in a position to do so interested in launching a new investigation should really tell you something.

And as far as a new commission is concerned, I have no canard to offer you. Only my sincere best wishes that you can make it happen. But from what I've seen from your movement, I'm not holding my breath.


There is more than enough evidence that the official story is not complete, to say it very politely. This crime wasn't investigated as it should have been.

The reason why "my movement" was not able to achieve its primary goals is, in my opinion, because it was infiltrated by snake oil sellers (in part paid by the government). The fact that it is so fractionalized and that you, the "debunkers", have nearly won the internet debate, as sad as that is, is because the american public is so extremely gullible and unaware of the forces that design their "fortune".

Please don't blame me for the actions of other people to whom i have no connection.

In my mind, the failure of the 911 skeptics to alarm the public about what the "elite" is up to, is the final nail in the coffin of the last empire.

I hope you are able to mock this post in a year or two. :(

[WildCat]

ugh i feel for you wildcat, please read. Once again I came here too discuss WKJO/Andrew Grove Money trail, but all you JREFers STILL miss that point.
Here's some advice your English teacher never gave you apparently: If your intention was to start a discussion on the WKJO/Andrew Grove money trail, you could have started a thread entitled "The WKJO/Andreww Grove Money Trail". Then people browsing the threads could look at the thread title and know instantly what the subject of the thread is! Neat, isn't it?

Then in your OP, you actually tell us about WKJO/Andrew Grove and your opinions on it. This way there's actually a good chance that people will discuss that topic! See how that works?

But for some reason you entitled your thread "Call me a Twoofer I guess", went on a long rambling meandering essay that was all over the place, and mentioned Andrew Grove only in passing in paragraph 8. And no mention at all about WKJO.

Which is why we're here 219 posts into your thread with no discussion at all about the WKJO/Andrew Grove money trail.

Do you see the importance of making an effort to communicate clearly now?

[Bluekush623]

I went to public school and I learned what critical thinking is. Seems that public education has gone down the tubes since 1992.



Um, WE already know what brought down the buildings; or did you miss those 2 huge airplanes crashing into them, setting several floors aflame, causing the structural integrity of them to weaken, which lead to their collapse.


Would you please read the NIST report. Its that report that has cHANGEd much of the building codes in the last 7 years. Building codes that are now being observed by nearly every civilized nation on this planet.

IF nist was wrong about their report, dont you think that those relying on their suggested changes, would be questioning why the are making these suggestions in the first place?


ugh STOP CHERRY PICKING read the whole post. Theres NO way ANYONE can ever prove or disprove there was atleast one bomb in either of the 3 buildings. If so your as dilusional as twoofers. as i said well never know exactly HOW IT CAME DOWN, not what brought it down...dun dun.

Its sometimes called a Front to help make people believe things and hide lies.

[fuelair]

Blame the Federal Government then for my Education, I went to the ****** public schools of America. AND FOR THE LASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSST TIME WE WILL NEVER TRULY KNOW WHAT BROUGHT DOWN THE BUILDINGS AND HOW, FOR THEY ARE LONGER THERE ? Longer there than where Blotush? Oh, in case you missed the newscasts, the buildings were brought down by BEING HIT BY TWO FLIPPING BIG AIRCRAFT. Grow a pair and look it up - made all the news shows way back 8 years ago!! Ooops, I mean in 2001.:D:D:D:D

[WildCat]

I hope you are able to mock this post in a year or two. :(
Considering we're still mocking your posts from June 2006, I'd say odds are good we'll be mocking this one in 2010.

The problem with your movement is there isn't any there there.

[Pardalis]

What about WKJO and Andrew Grove?

And by the way, if you sat through the entire WKJO movie, then we should at least congratulate you for such a feat.

[beachnut]

There is more than enough evidence that the official story is not complete, to say it very politely. This crime wasn't investigated as it should have been. :(It will be funny as you post this in 10 years, still having no evidence to even back up this post. So where are you guys hiding this enough evidence to earn the Pulitzer Prize. Cause this is the stuff of Pulitzer Prizes, and you and 9/11 truth are short of evidence for 6 years! Why are you unable to support your posts with evidence?

[WildCat]

Theres NO way ANYONE can ever prove or disprove there was atleast one bomb in either of the 3 buildings.
That is actually true! But what we can say is that there is no evidence of any bombs in any building in the WTC complex on September 11 2001.

[Bobert]

Why is it that troothers care more about what JREF'ers think of them and very little about what they perceive as the "truth"?

[Bluekush623]

yes my OP was a little rantish, because well those have been the views ive learned and what better way to start a thread by someone new in the community too describe there full "story", instead of posting one sentence(like everyone here lives by).

But since you all are hard of reading, here it is clear as day for ya.

"But again these are all the little arguments and i could think of many more which will go no where.But what happens when you follow the money trail?"

Thats the Debunker cue to jump in and tell me the about the money trail.

hahahahahahahahahaha maybe you will get me next time.

[WildCat]

What about WKJO and Andrew Grove?
He'll get to that...someday...maybe?

[Bluekush623]

That is actually true! But what we can say is that there is no evidence of any bombs in any building in the WTC complex on September 11 2001.

Cmon you THINKERS

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[WildCat]

But since you all are hard of reading, here it is clear as day for ya.

"But again these are all the little arguments and i could think of many more which will go no where.But what happens when you follow the money trail?"

Thats the Debunker cue to jump in and tell me the about the money trail.
Actually, that is where you're supposed to talk about the money trail and your opinions on it. Without that, there's really nothing to discuss.

[Drudgewire]

Theres NO way ANYONE can ever prove or disprove there was atleast one bomb in either of the 3 buildings.
Time for my favorite analogy:

"I challenge you to find any tangible evidence proving rouge unicorns didn't bring down the twin towers."

And you can't do it, because no ever expects the rogue unicorns and because they're awesome at covering their tracks... dastardly fiends. :mad:

[WildCat]

Cmon you THINKERS

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Correct! Which is why I've said that all we can say is that there is no evidence of bombs.

[kookbreaker]

Cmon you THINKERS

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

You cannot prove there were no jihadist Unicorns in the building either.

Without evidence, all you have is useless speculation on irrelevancies and in your case, a poor justification for inept intellectual agnosticism.

[Pardalis]

Cmon you THINKERS

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

True, but you still have to find any evidence to indict anyone.

[johnny karate]

There is more than enough evidence that the official story is not complete, to say it very politely. This crime wasn't investigated as it should have been.

The reason why "my movement" was not able to achieve its primary goals is, in my opinion, because it was infiltrated by snake oil sellers (in part paid by the government). The fact that it is so fractionalized and that you, the "debunkers", have nearly won the internet debate, as sad as that is, is because the american public is so extremely gullible and unaware of the forces that design their "fortune".

Please don't blame me for the actions of other people to whom i have no connection.

In my mind, the failure of the 911 skeptics to alarm the public about what the "elite" is up to, is the final nail in the coffin of the last empire.

Once again, just wrong. Evidence is evidence. Either you have it or you don't. It doesn't matter how many people believe it, or the motives or character of the people that do believe it. Evidence stands on its own merits.

If your movement had any actual evidence, any at all, this conversation would be entirely academic. But you don't, so it isn't. Because you have no evidence. Period.

I hope you are able to mock this post in a year or two. :(

Why wait when I can mock it right now? :rolleyes:

[Slayhamlet]

Now I mention in this in passing only because it has everything to do with the Gas Prices these days, and since people are now pawning their possessions to fill their tanks, I figured I’d mention it in case you’re interested. You see, whether or not Oil is truly a fossil fuel (and therefore depleteable) or is actually abiotic (and therefore regenerative) is up for debate; however, I agree that oil is used to exert a measure of control on populations- and to that end, you may want to check out a book called the “Deep Hot Biosphere” sometime, as it explains that oil is not a fossil fuel, and not in danger of running out. But I digress…*

Hundreds of billions in fraudulent transactions took place just prior to the buildings being pulled down on 9-11- not including what I mentioned about Marsh and AIG previously- these transactions which capitalized on the destruction of fellow human beings were also in part facilitated by Marsh & McLennan. I know this because they were captured on hard-drives found in the rubble at Ground Zero… a German Company called Convar recovered the information on these drives.*

For me, it became obvious, only a few moments after the South Tower explosion, that the personnel and vehicles I was observing at Ground Zero were not there to help rescue people.*

Perhaps someone with Patriot Act Authority went to my landlord who helped them gain entry. Interestingly enough, when we were forced into exodus in 2003, the same landlord saw fit to cheat us out of our $7000 security deposit. Ironically, he admitted it to this on tape; and was knowingly defrauding us openly. Why would he take such an opportunity and kick us when we were down, after I had paid him over $100,000 in rent during my stay in New York? Possibly because he knew that due to the nature of the situation, every opportunity was being explored to financially break me, and so he was just doing his part to serve the terrorists.*

It started with American Express. Although I had a verbal agreement with them to pay in full the expenses which I had been left hanging with after an abrupt termination, my account was closed; and they called for me to pay off my card, in full, immediately.*

In August 2003, I found out that one of my clients, DynCorp was engaged in the international sex-slave trade, selling women and children in various parts of the world for the purposes of prostitution, slavery, and use in snuff films; wherein they are murdered for entertainment. Search on the “United Nations +DynCorp” and you may find that DynCorp was convicted of having sold over 200,000 women and children through this black market slave trade, and that’s only a fraction of the illicit business they’ve done over the past several years.

Al Qaeda is the shadow cast by elements of the intelligence community… “Al Qaeda” means the Base, and “Al Qaeda” takes its name from a database file wherein information on miscellaneous terrorists was filed for future classification.*

Getting back to Software companies, they literally print their own money, and if that makes you think of Bill Gates and Larry Ellison, it certainly should, as both Microsoft and Oracle were Pentagon projects turned commercial.

or one might make the connection to today’s Human Trafficking crisis, via a the front cover of the June 29 1989 Washington Times, whereby said connections to the White House and the sex-slave trade, and the Oracle of Omaha, are made clear… noting the connection to the President’s visit to Omaha on September 11th , when Buffett was holding his “last annual” golf tournament. Coincidence?

my Range Rover was repossessed

On December 17, 21, & 27, 2004 and January 12th 2005 I sent a variety of faxes, letters, and parcels to the attention of Harrison Ford, care of his publicist, Patricia McQueeney. Specifically in the 2nd package, which weighed 31 pounds and arrived in a stainless steel briefcase; there was information pertaining to a man-made disaster being created- what was to be the Tsunamis that hit Indonesia- and the contents also referred to the hundreds of thousands who would be killed, arriving just days before the disaster… my hope was to put the information into the hands of someone with a voice, and in my mind, Harrison’s pretty well known… he’s been the President, Jack Ryan, Han Solo, and Indiana Jones- in other words, people might listen to what he has to say- considering we were living in, what seemed to be, a leaderless society.*

To offer some insight into what I can’t share with you right now regarding man-made disasters… Tesla-based weapons like H.A.A.R.P. leave a unique signature which differentiates their manifestations from those which occur in Nature- and if you know what to look for, you can identify man-made earthquakes, such as the Iranian quake which occurred one year to the day before the Indonesian Tsunamis.

The Brothers Flynt replied… with a Cease and Desist from their attorneys- in response to my recommendation that Hustler cover the 9-11 phenomenon; as I naively envisioned Hustler as being a viable communication mechanism possibly still outside of the controlled mass media, and Flynt as a self-espoused First Amendment advocate, through which this information could plausibly be disseminated, specifically to our Troops.

While many interested in 9-11 have already become well-acquainted with the 2nd Edition of a film called: Loose Change, released January 16th of this year; I specifically wanted to reference the work of Louder Than Words Productions, specifically Dylan, Korey, and Jason because they are an excellent example of the power of a few young minds, and while they seem to be well informed, they’re also very wise for their age. They’re trail-blazers, and have produced what I consider the most palatable and widely consumable documentary of the 9-11 genre, because it presents the facts without fanfare… and it addresses sensitive topics with grace and professionalism.

You see, Our enemy knows that we don’t do our homework, and that in fact is the Achilles Heel of America.*

… and I would also note the photo op on the same morning, where the President is pictured with Lynne Cheney’s book America, wherein he is holding it upside down so that the U.S. Flag is represented as a distress signal.

September 11th, 1971: construction began on both the North and South Tower- that same day, Nikita Khrushchev died, and there was also the famous at Attica Prison, in New York. Noting that the Twin Towers were destroyed 30 years to the day after their birth.*

September 11th, 1995: reports surface of a remote controlled plane that was crashed into the White House.

-and We the People can no longer afford to be ignorant-

Unless you can explain how the Taliban infiltrated the secure vaults under the World Trade Center and stole hundreds of billions in bouillon, why the owners of that Bullion are keeping quiet, or how they got NORAD to conveniently schedule 6 simultaneous drills the same morning they were paying homage to the birthdays of their target buildings

You can reach me telephonically or by leaving a voicemail at 917-779-9215 or you can email me at Richard@Renaissance-Interventures.com

Canceling out these destructive waves is as straightforward as introducing a simple wave interference pattern- and it is my contention that communication is exactly the type of interference necessary… and while I’m personally still searching for the right frequency which brings it all into harmony, it’s only a matter of trial and error… and any day now, we could get lucky, and strike a chord.*

:END OF TRANSMISSION:*

So here's your "whistleblower" in his own words, Bluekush. (highlights thanks to Gravy.) What do you think of these claims?

He's so batcrap crazy that most twoofers think he's actually government disinfo. Hence he hasn't been cited by any of the bigwigs in the "Truth movement" in at least a year. Must not be a terribly convincing "whistleblower" then, huh?

ETA: Oh, I see ChildlikeEmpress has come out to play. Hey CE, is Richard Andrew Grove disinfo, or just a mental case?

[johnny karate]

I saw nothing in that post that addresses my question. It still stands.

Bump for Bluekush.

[Childlike Empress]

It will be funny as you post this in 10 years, still having no evidence to even back up this post. So where are you guys hiding this enough evidence to earn the Pulitzer Prize. Cause this is the stuff of Pulitzer Prizes, and you and 9/11 truth are short of evidence for 6 years! Why are you unable to support your posts with evidence?

Yeah, the Pulitzer price. Who doesn't struggle to get it? The crown of journalism, isn't it? Don't you know that it's an illuminati price? :eek:















(Pulling his leg if he has one left after his "service" to the empire)

[Pardalis]

And as to who killed John O'Neil: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=95102

[Childlike Empress]

Once again, just wrong. Evidence is evidence. Either you have it or you don't. It doesn't matter how many people believe it, or the motives or character of the people that do believe it. Evidence stands on its own merits.

If your movement had any actual evidence, any at all, this conversation would be entirely academic. But you don't, so it isn't. Because you have no evidence. Period.


BS. The problem is that the majority of your people (and mine, to be fair) are sitting in front of their propaganda tube the whole day and are not even capable of thinking the thoughts neccessary to realize whats going on. And you "debunkers" are focussing on the red herrings laid out for you.

[Pardalis]

What is really going on Childlike?

You've kept hinting at it for two years.

[Childlike Empress]

What is really going on Childlike?

You've kept hinting at it for two years.


As if YOU would be interested. Read that Pilger book in the meantime?

[Pardalis]

As if YOU would be interested. Read that Pilger book in the meantime?

You should be able to discuss some of it in a discussion forum.

It's not scientology.

[rwguinn]

Cmon you THINKERS

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Aw, lookie there
It's learned a catch-phrase.
someday it will learn to actually apply it.
But first, it must learn what it actually means!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Whatever public school you went to should be demolished [...]


...with therm?te. :p

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.


It's also not evidence of conspiracy. It's not evidence of anything, so I don't know why you insist on continuing to argue from such a fruitless position.

If "nothing can be proven or disproven" is all you've got, perhaps the Religion and Philosophy (http://forums.randi.org/forumdisplay.php?f=4) subforum would be more appropriate for the types of discussions you seem to be interested in.

[johnny karate]

BS. The problem is that the majority of your people (and mine, to be fair) are sitting in front of their propaganda tube the whole day and are not even capable of thinking the thoughts neccessary to realize whats going on. And you "debunkers" are focussing on the red herrings laid aout for you.

Once again, sparky: Evidence is evidence. You don't need to convince Joe Schmoe of its legitimacy; it stands on its own merits.

Your continual need to turn this into some kind of battle of political ideologies is baffling. We're dealing with tangibles here. Science, math, verifiable stuff like that.

It doesn't matter how much reality television that I and my fellow slovenly Americans watch. If your movement had anything tangible to offer as evidence, it would be game over for us shills and sheep.

As is oft cited in these discussions, the ignorant masses once believed that the world was flat. That didn't change that fact that it wasn't. And that fact couldn't be denied, despite who and how many believed otherwise.

[Bluekush623]

ugh the WKJO thread is two pages long with name bashing for those two pages. Not no evidence going against the film.

Now im supposed to back claims that dont inolve the 9/11 attacks, from the whistleblower personal life? haha, nice try again.

Really this is sad, either read/watch/listen to what sources i put out there in FULL or dont comment, you want me too read the reports even though i dont care about the towers. So i feel you should atleast do your part and watch the Movie maybe listen to Andrews 20+ podcasts or something. Get a grasp of the info and throughly explain how its completely wrong in more then 2 sentences. Name the names they provide and give the real story.

Name bashing, Grammar bashing, Personality bashing doesnt count. Bash their info and disprove it by the information alone.

[HyJinX]

Ugh. Your posts are exhausting.

[Pardalis]

ahem...

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108057

[Childlike Empress]

Once again, sparky: Evidence is evidence. You don't need to convince Joe Schmoe of its legitimacy; it stands on its own merits.

Your continual need to turn this into some kind of battle of political ideologies is baffling. We're dealing with tangibles here. Science, math, verifiable stuff like that.

It doesn't matter how much reality television that I and my fellow slovenly Americans watch. If your movement had anything tangible to offer as evidence, it would be game over for us shills and sheep.

As is oft cited in these discussions, the ignorant masses once believed that the world was flat. That didn't change that fact that it wasn't. And that fact couldn't be denied, despite who and how many believed otherwise.


No, it hasn't to do anything with math and science. The only bit that requires understanding in math and science is the alleged controlled demoliton of the WTCs. In my opinion, this is a red herring, and this is what you focus on because that is the world you understand.

All the other points have to do with politics and criminal investigation, with networks that existed before 9/11 and exist to this very day. See Sibel Edmond's case and how it is misrepresented on this forum. Laughable. Here is a recent radio discussion about the network she blow the whistle on (and which is apparently connected to 911 AND the Valerie Plame case):

Daniel Ellsberg, famous leaker of the Pentagon Papers, and Chris Deliso, of Balkanalysis.com, discuss the case of FBI translator-whistleblower Sibel Edmonds and the international crime rings she exposed.

http://dissentradio.com/radio/08_02_20_delisoellsberg.mp3

[Bluekush623]

I think that here we see the real crux of the problem.



Like I said...

Haha nice try though. So do you agree with the war on drugs?

Whether you do or not. Its my body i can do whatever i dream of with it. End of argument, the war on drugs is a scam/conspiracy.

[beachnut]

ugh the WKJO thread is two pages long with name bashing for those two pages. Not no evidence going against the film.

Now im supposed to back claims that dont inolve the 9/11 attacks, from the whistleblower personal life? haha, nice try again.
The film is crap. Please present one thing the film has right. Your turn to present some facts the film has right; but, so far you are perfectly void of facts.

You have no facts. Why are you unable to present something that is true about 911?

[Slayhamlet]

ugh the WKJO thread is two pages long with name bashing for those two pages. Not no evidence going against the film.

Now im supposed to back claims that dont inolve the 9/11 attacks, from the whistleblower personal life? haha, nice try again.

Really this is sad, either read/watch/listen to what sources i put out there in FULL or dont comment, you want me too read the reports even though i dont care about the towers. So i feel you should atleast do your part and watch the Movie maybe listen to Andrews 20+ podcasts or something. Get a grasp of the info and throughly explain how its completely wrong in more then 2 sentences. Name the names they provide and give the real story.

Name bashing, Grammar bashing, Personality bashing doesnt count. Bash their info and disprove it by the information alone.

Stop lying. Many of those claims directly involve the 9/11 attacks. Did the Taliban steal hundreds of billions of dollars in bullion from the Twin Towers on 9/11? Richard Grove, your "whistleblower", makes this claim. Is he telling the truth, Bluekush? If not, how does this reflect on his credibility? Answer the question.