The Story of 90 West Street

[ref]

Hello everybody.

I am a building called 90 West Street. I am located very close to Ground Zero and the late twin towers, as you can see from this photo, I'm that 23 storey light colored building second from the right:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd50fe0c6a7.jpg

I am one of three major Downtown NYC office buildings designed by Cass Gilbert. I was built in 1905-07 for the West Street Improvement Corporation, a partnership headed by Howard Carroll.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd49cdb7a5d.jpg
Cass Gilbert

In 1998, my exterior was designated an architectural landmark by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission.

I write here because some people claim, that only buildings belonging to the WTC complex had fires in them on 9/11. And because some people wonder why I didn't collapse, but WTC 7 did.

Early in the morning of 9/11 I was hit by falling flaming debris from the south tower of WTC. Fires set by the south tower's debris gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. A plummeting javelin of steel demolished the kitchen at the Morton's of Chicago steakhouse on the ground floor, at the corner of Albany and West Streets, which once had the highest revenues of any of the chain's restaurants. The battered copper sheets of the sloping mansard roof - pierced, pitted and dented by hurtling projectile debris - were peeled back as if by a giant with a can opener. On the rooftop, the decorative copper balustrade was melted and twisted.

Some of the damage can be seen in this photo:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd548762a92.jpg


An executive secretary died in the building when she was trapped in an elevator there after the attack, and another office worker is believed to have perished with her. Recovery crews searching the roof, scaffolding and gutter pipes discovered large sections of one of the hijacked airplanes, and fragments of remains believed to have been those of people in the planes and the towers.

But I didn't collapse. Why? Because, two stand-out elements of Gilbert's design schemes included handcrafted, interlocking terra-cotta bricks between floors and marble-and-steel stairwells -- both fireproofing measures. The events of September 11, 2001, revealed that they work even in extreme circumstances.

Another reason I withstood the blow of the collapsed towers was the reinforced steel and massive, solid-granite base, which suffered dents and chips, but nothing that threatened my foundation.

This photo on the great Mark Robert's site offers some comparison between myself and WTC 7:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/dhtnyt120401photo.jpg/dhtnyt120401photo-full.jpg


Today, I have been renovated and recostructed. I was reopened in the spring of 2005 and the former offices were converted to 410 state-of-the-art apartments. Inside, the restored Gothic-arched ceiling and carved-stone pillars welcome tenants, who will have access to a garden courtyard, gym, recreation room, and all the modern amenities -- from central air and heating to high-speed Internet access and a large underground garage. I am still 1907 on the outside, but modern on the inside.

There were fires on other buildings than those belonging to the WTC complex. People perished in buildings other than those belonging to the WTC complex. We should remember that. Buildings other than those of WTC were severely damaged. I was one of them.

Thanks for listening to a story many have missed.


Sources:
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=90weststreet-newyorkcity-ny-usa
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE1DF113FF936A35750C0A9629C8B 63
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/news/beauty__strength_in_75703.aspx
http://www.90weststreet.com/


Written by a fluent translator of building-language, ref :p

[ElMondoHummus]

Okay, I will not let this post drift into oblivion. I liked the story, as well as the comparison between this and the Solomon Building.

If nothing else, this post helps put to rest the idea that the towers collapses ended up "within their footprints". 90 West is 2 whole blocks away from the WTC complex. It also helps us understand that there are big differences between buildings, and an event occuring for one doesn't necessarily end up with the same result as that same event happening for another. If the jets hit, say, the Chrysler and Empire State buildings instead, I don't know what would happen, but I believe it wouldn't be the same result as what happened to the World Trade Center (subject to correction by the OP's author, as well as any of the esteemed architectural and engineering authorities in this forum).

Anyway, great post! Would there happen to be any other pictures or diagrams of the damage 90 West endured?

[westprog]

Okay, I will not let this post drift into oblivion. I liked the story, as well as the comparison between this and the Solomon Building.

If nothing else, this post helps put to rest the idea that the towers collapses ended up "within their footprints". 90 West is 2 whole blocks away from the WTC complex. It also helps us understand that there are big differences between buildings, and an event occuring for one doesn't necessarily end up with the same result as that same event happening for another. If the jets hit, say, the Chrysler and Empire State buildings instead, I don't know what would happen, but I believe it wouldn't be the same result as what happened to the World Trade Center (subject to correction by the OP's author, as well as any of the esteemed architectural and engineering authorities in this forum).

Anyway, great post! Would there happen to be any other pictures or diagrams of the damage 90 West endured?

In a broad sense, this is the answer to LastChild's attack on the "nerds". What he means by that is that debunkers are interested in stuff like this. How buildings are built, and how they differ. How steel is fireproofed. How air defences work. The conspiracists aren't interested in these things. They skim through looking for material which might support them - they clip it out and discard the rest.

That's why there's so little meeting of minds. It's not just a disagreement about the conclusions. It's a totally different mindset. While they call for a "real investigation", in practice it bores them. They don't want to investigate the detail. They want someone else to do it, and come up with conclusions that match theirs.

[ref]

Anyway, great post! Would there happen to be any other pictures or diagrams of the damage 90 West endured?

Thanks El.

Here is a higher resolution photo showing some parts of the damage.

http://img22.photobucket.com/albums/v65/RandySavage/100_0030.jpg

[fuelair]

Hello everybody.

I am a building called 90 West Street. I am located very close to Ground Zero and the late twin towers, as you can see from this photo, I'm that 23 storey light colored building second from the right:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd50fe0c6a7.jpg

I am one of three major Downtown NYC office buildings designed by Cass Gilbert. I was built in 1905-07 for the West Street Improvement Corporation, a partnership headed by Howard Carroll.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd49cdb7a5d.jpg
Cass Gilbert

In 1998, my exterior was designated an architectural landmark by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission.

I write here because some people claim, that only buildings belonging to the WTC complex had fires in them on 9/11. And because some people wonder why I didn't collapse, but WTC 7 did.

Early in the morning of 9/11 I was hit by falling flaming debris from the south tower of WTC. Fires set by the south tower's debris gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. A plummeting javelin of steel demolished the kitchen at the Morton's of Chicago steakhouse on the ground floor, at the corner of Albany and West Streets, which once had the highest revenues of any of the chain's restaurants. The battered copper sheets of the sloping mansard roof - pierced, pitted and dented by hurtling projectile debris - were peeled back as if by a giant with a can opener. On the rooftop, the decorative copper balustrade was melted and twisted.

Some of the damage can be seen in this photo:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd548762a92.jpg


An executive secretary died in the building when she was trapped in an elevator there after the attack, and another office worker is believed to have perished with her. Recovery crews searching the roof, scaffolding and gutter pipes discovered large sections of one of the hijacked airplanes, and fragments of remains believed to have been those of people in the planes and the towers.

But I didn't collapse. Why? Because, two stand-out elements of Gilbert's design schemes included handcrafted, interlocking terra-cotta bricks between floors and marble-and-steel stairwells -- both fireproofing measures. The events of September 11, 2001, revealed that they work even in extreme circumstances.

Another reason I withstood the blow of the collapsed towers was the reinforced steel and massive, solid-granite base, which suffered dents and chips, but nothing that threatened my foundation.

This photo on the great Mark Robert's site offers some comparison between myself and WTC 7:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/dhtnyt120401photo.jpg/dhtnyt120401photo-full.jpg


Today, I have been renovated and recostructed. I was reopened in the spring of 2005 and the former offices were converted to 410 state-of-the-art apartments. Inside, the restored Gothic-arched ceiling and carved-stone pillars welcome tenants, who will have access to a garden courtyard, gym, recreation room, and all the modern amenities -- from central air and heating to high-speed Internet access and a large underground garage. I am still 1907 on the outside, but modern on the inside.

There were fires on other buildings than those belonging to the WTC complex. People perished in buildings other than those belonging to the WTC complex. We should remember that. Buildings other than those of WTC were severely damaged. I was one of them.

Thanks for listening to a story many have missed.


Sources:
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=90weststreet-newyorkcity-ny-usa
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE1DF113FF936A35750C0A9629C8B 63
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/news/beauty__strength_in_75703.aspx
http://www.90weststreet.com/


Written by a fluent translator of building-language, ref :pWorthwhile, interesting, informative, well-written, well done!!!!!:):):)

Do more!!!

[Corsair 115]

Worthwhile, interesting, informative, well-written, well done!!!!!:):):)

Do more!!!Seconded!

[Mangoose]

Excellent! I wanna hear from 30 West Broadway next. :)

[Mangoose]

Here is a picture I took of the repairs back in '05:

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/700/03140041acx2.jpg

[cisco]

Awesome. I wonder how much one of those apartments goes for.

[Ateius]

To the OP: Beautiful. I love the narration from the building's perspective.

Also: Two blocks away? Yeouch! I had no idea the building debris fell that far in the collapse.

Awesome. I wonder how much one of those apartments goes for.
Far more than is reasonable, I'm sure. :p

[ElMondoHummus]

Also: Two blocks away? Yeouch! I had no idea the building debris fell that far in the collapse.


That's what I count when I look on maps. Here's one example:

http://crashrecovery.org/911/wtc-map.jpg

Liberty and Cedar St. are both between Ground Zero and 90 West. On the other hand, I look at Google Maps satellite view, and Cedar kind of looks like an alley. I'll defer to anyone who actually knows New York and can tell me definitively. But I do count 2 blocks when I look on street maps.

[Mangoose]

Here is a photo of Ceder Street just a few minutes before the crash of AA11.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/9636/dscn3600apn1.jpg

[Alferd_Packer]

Just an off topic observation: I still can't belive that it cost 1.4 billion dollars to restore the Verizon building.

[Damien Evans]

Hello everybody.

I am a building called 90 West Street. I am located very close to Ground Zero and the late twin towers, as you can see from this photo, I'm that 23 storey light colored building second from the right:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd50fe0c6a7.jpg

I am one of three major Downtown NYC office buildings designed by Cass Gilbert. I was built in 1905-07 for the West Street Improvement Corporation, a partnership headed by Howard Carroll.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd49cdb7a5d.jpg
Cass Gilbert

In 1998, my exterior was designated an architectural landmark by the city's Landmarks Preservation Commission.

I write here because some people claim, that only buildings belonging to the WTC complex had fires in them on 9/11. And because some people wonder why I didn't collapse, but WTC 7 did.

Early in the morning of 9/11 I was hit by falling flaming debris from the south tower of WTC. Fires set by the south tower's debris gutted the 2nd, 3rd, 10th and 23rd floors, and much of the northern portions of the 4th, 5th, 8th and 21st floors. A plummeting javelin of steel demolished the kitchen at the Morton's of Chicago steakhouse on the ground floor, at the corner of Albany and West Streets, which once had the highest revenues of any of the chain's restaurants. The battered copper sheets of the sloping mansard roof - pierced, pitted and dented by hurtling projectile debris - were peeled back as if by a giant with a can opener. On the rooftop, the decorative copper balustrade was melted and twisted.

Some of the damage can be seen in this photo:

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947cd548762a92.jpg


An executive secretary died in the building when she was trapped in an elevator there after the attack, and another office worker is believed to have perished with her. Recovery crews searching the roof, scaffolding and gutter pipes discovered large sections of one of the hijacked airplanes, and fragments of remains believed to have been those of people in the planes and the towers.

But I didn't collapse. Why? Because, two stand-out elements of Gilbert's design schemes included handcrafted, interlocking terra-cotta bricks between floors and marble-and-steel stairwells -- both fireproofing measures. The events of September 11, 2001, revealed that they work even in extreme circumstances.

Another reason I withstood the blow of the collapsed towers was the reinforced steel and massive, solid-granite base, which suffered dents and chips, but nothing that threatened my foundation.

This photo on the great Mark Robert's site offers some comparison between myself and WTC 7:
http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/dhtnyt120401photo.jpg/dhtnyt120401photo-full.jpg


Today, I have been renovated and recostructed. I was reopened in the spring of 2005 and the former offices were converted to 410 state-of-the-art apartments. Inside, the restored Gothic-arched ceiling and carved-stone pillars welcome tenants, who will have access to a garden courtyard, gym, recreation room, and all the modern amenities -- from central air and heating to high-speed Internet access and a large underground garage. I am still 1907 on the outside, but modern on the inside.

There were fires on other buildings than those belonging to the WTC complex. People perished in buildings other than those belonging to the WTC complex. We should remember that. Buildings other than those of WTC were severely damaged. I was one of them.

Thanks for listening to a story many have missed.


Sources:
http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=90weststreet-newyorkcity-ny-usa
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=990DE1DF113FF936A35750C0A9629C8B 63
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C00E4DF1F3DF937A35751C1A9679C8B 63
http://www.lowermanhattan.info/news/beauty__strength_in_75703.aspx
http://www.90weststreet.com/


Written by a fluent translator of building-language, ref :p

Nominated.

[njslim]

Just an off topic observation: I still can't belive that it cost 1.4 billion dollars to restore the Verizon building.

Lot of it was equipment replacement in basements which were flooded by broken water
mains

[Wildy]

Now if someone were to post this on LCF, do you think that they would be banned?

I enjoyed reading that.

[fuelair]

Now if someone were to post this on LCF, do you think that they would be banned?

I enjoyed reading that.

Hey, those numbbrains
don't deserve to get to read stuff that good - and I doubt they could follow it anyway - without help from their mommies.:):):D:jaw-dropp

[MG1962]

Great OP - Everyone has pretty much said what I was thinking

[Wildy]

Hey, those numbbrains
don't deserve to get to read stuff that good - and I doubt they could follow it anyway - without help from their mommies.:):):D:jaw-dropp

Still it would be interesting to see if their responses actually show that they have read the whole thing and not just thrown insults around.

[ref]

Thanks for the great feedback, everybody :)

Here is a report that has best photos of the facade damage. But I think they understate the fires, as they did burn for 2-3 days on many floors. See pages 28-29.

http://mceer.buffalo.edu/publications/wtc/02-SP02Screen.pdf

[ElMondoHummus]

The FEMA 403 "Building Performance Study" also devotes a few sentences to 90 West (http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_ch7.pdf, pages 7-15 to 7-17).

Don't know why I didn't think about looking there before.

[Norseman]

Here is an article on the performance of masonry components in buildings damaged by the WTC collapses:
http://www.cement.org/masonry/pp_fire_towers.asp

It does not mention 90 West specifically, but is relevant any way.

[ref]

I still wanted to show a photo, that best illustrates the location of 90 West Street compared to the towers.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947d00947bb6a4.jpg

[westprog]

To the OP: Beautiful. I love the narration from the building's perspective.


It's an excellent example of the quality of the expertise on JREF.

Anyone who was really interested in finding out what happened on 911 could learn an enormous amount from little essays like this.

Also: Two blocks away? Yeouch! I had no idea the building debris fell that far in the collapse.

Far more than is reasonable, I'm sure.

A lot further than is reasonable. It had to be explosives!

(Sorry. The reply only quotes to one level, which can play havoc with the original meaning).

[ElMondoHummus]

I still wanted to show a photo, that best illustrates the location of 90 West Street compared to the towers.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363947d00947bb6a4.jpg



Hmmm... maybe I've misinterpreted the maps. 90 West doesn't look that far away in that picture. And I don't quite see two whole blocks separating it from the WTC complex; Cedar must be a real small street.

On the other hand, the fact that there's separation is still pretty obvious. And it still kills the notion that the towers fell completely within their own "footprints".

[Ateius]

I still wanted to show a photo, that best illustrates the location of 90 West Street compared to the towers.

That's not nearly as far as I'd imagined "two blocks" would be. I'm surprised it fared as well as it did - solid construction and a hefty dose of luck, I suppose.

I saw the collapses live on the news, but it's still hard to believe, looking at old photos like that, structures with such a massive presence are ... gone.

(Sorry. The reply only quotes to one level, which can play havoc with the original meaning).
Yes, it can. :p "Far more than is reasonable" was referring to apartment prices, not debris.

[Soma]

Very well written. Another reason I'm glad to be visiting NYC very soon.

BTW, for those not versed in US measures, how far is 2 blocks?

Converted to Furlongs, if you please :D

[BigAl]

Very well written. Another reason I'm glad to be visiting NYC very soon.

BTW, for those not versed in US measures, how far is 2 blocks?

Converted to Furlongs, if you please :D

(I use Furlongs per fortnight and nanoeons whenever I can.)

Downtown, (roughly, below 14th st) a block is as you find it. Google finds this, just to save my typing.

within the Manhattan grid as it pertains to the numbered streets, there are 20 numbered streets within 1 mile, so the distance from the middle of 1 numbered street to the next one should be 264 feet.

This would be North-south

the distances between the numbered and named avenues in Manhattan are variable, but are mostly the distance of 2 to 4 numbered streets long, so, roughly anywhere from 600 to 1000 feet long.

This would be East-West



http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080123151239AAGIqxJ

[Mangoose]

Don't miss the photo of Ceder posted above, that shows how wide the street was. The church was completely flattened in the collapse, so the church was definitely in the debris zone.

[ElMondoHummus]

Hmm. I tripped over a report I've never seen before:

http://www.rms.com/Publications/wtc.pdf

It's got pretty mundane information, but the reason I bring it up in this thread is because it names 90 West as being a building within a 650 foot (200 meter) radius. So assuming that report is correct, it tells us that 90 West was no more, and probably much less than 650 feet away.

Also, I tripped over this page:

http://nyfd.com/marine/Marine_1_page2.html

Which expands on the threat the fires posed to the building:


At one point 90 West Street was thought to be in danger of collapse due to numerous interior fires. The area was evacuated on orders received via handi talkie, leaving both the manifold and E-219 pumps unmanned. After about a half hour, firefighters, unfamiliar with inactivity at a disaster, started filtering back to continue doing what they could. (90 West Street still stands.)


So 90 West was really aflame, and very much threatened by the fires. Anyway, just thought I'd add those links I found.

[technoextreme]

Just an off topic observation: I still can't belive that it cost 1.4 billion dollars to restore the Verizon building.
Well the building was going to be renovated at the time it was damaged so is that including the renovation costs or not.

[Wildy]

Bump for those who haven't read it yet.

[Wildy]

A bump with a realistice question.

Is the building in the centre of this picture linked to here (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1spirecorewall.jpg), 90 West Street?

[ref]

A bump with a realistice question.

Is the building in the centre of this picture linked to here (http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtc1spirecorewall.jpg), 90 West Street?

No it's not. That one is The Verizon Building, that was located next to WTC 7. In your photo you will see the old WTC 7 to the left of Verizon.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363948afb3918e98a.jpg

Verizon is seen here in the lower right hand corner, to the left of the Verizon is the new WTC 7. Straight across ground zero, straight up from the new WTC 7, you will see the actual 90 West Street.

[Wildy]

No it's not. That one is The Verizon Building, that was located next to WTC 7. In your photo you will see the old WTC 7 to the left of Verizon.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1363948afb3918e98a.jpg

Verizon is seen here in the lower right hand corner, to the left of the Verizon is the new WTC 7. Straight across ground zero, straight up from the new WTC 7, you will see the actual 90 West Street.

Thanks.

[eromitlab]

Awesome. I wonder how much one of those apartments goes for.

Late answer, but $2100-2275/month for a studio (http://www.90weststreet.com/availability.php). That's NYC for ya, I suppose... but I had guessed $3000 before looking at the page.

[MaGZ]

I am still unconvinced the collapse of the Twin Towers started fires in WTC 7 or your anthropomorphic building on West Street. You have yet to prove your point. This fires in the building on West Street could have been started by the debris from Flight AA 11 after it past through WTC 1.