WTC: Is this Pic real? - Burning Car in parking lot NW of North Tower

[BigAl]

Is the burning car and smoke real?

This looks like the parking lot that was west of West St and north of Vesey. That car would easily be 1,000 ft from the north tower and quite a long toss for some debris capable of setting a car afire.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/059.jpg/059-full.jpg

It is well outside the damage radius show in this map
http://baldur.globalsymmetry.com/fact911/images/misc/GJS-WTC105.jpg

I can't find any discussion of damage to the northern part of WFC3, the building seen in the upper right of the picture. It kind of looks like windows closest to West st. are blown out but apparently no fire was started.

[Apollo20]

BigAl:

Welcome to Judy Wood territory!

She has lots to say about burning cars!

[DGM]

Small debris punching a hole through the hood and shorting the battery in a car can cause it to burn. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility the pictures are real.

[StoneRook]

BigAl -

Don't you see all the paper sitting around in that picture? Looks like a lot of debris to me.

Do you think it's possible, that perhaps some paper around some of those cars may of been ignited from something hot?

Perhaps someone's cig, or maybe the exhaust pipe, or something else?

[leftysergeant]

There were cars burning before the collapse of either tower. Notice the sun roofs on some vehicles are at least partially open. Flaming debris did hit the ground over rather a wide area. Many photos of cars burned that day show that they were ignited from inside. Those that were burning at the time of collapse were probably ignored for a while.

Notice, too, that there are dark areas with relatively less paper on them. This is consistant with the first load of paper having been burned off of those areas. There are, further, not a lot of fire fighters tending to the actively burning vehicles, so it is uncertain how long they have been burning, but there are other vehicles nearby that appear to have been totally burned out before this picture was taken.

[LastChild]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110048.PDF

“As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire, and that set my feet on fire. I kept running. I got news for you, those turn out coats need to be called burn out coats, cause this thing caught up in flames…

As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't
near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. The traffic guys
hadn't gotten a chance to tow anything yet, cause this was all during the first hour I guess of this thing happening. So there were still cars parked on the street that were completely independent of that. Three cars blew up on me, stuff was being thrown. I went home all bruised that day…” - EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC Interview Date: October 11, 2001

[CHF]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110048.PDF

“As I was running up Vesey, the first car blew up on me on the corner of Vessey and the West Side Highway. That set my turnout coat on fire, that set my hair on fire, and that set my feet on fire. I kept running. I got news for you, those turn out coats need to be called burn out coats, cause this thing caught up in flames…

As I was running up here, two or three more cars exploded on me. They weren't
near any buildings at that point, they were just parked on the street. The traffic guys
hadn't gotten a chance to tow anything yet, cause this was all during the first hour I guess of this thing happening. So there were still cars parked on the street that were completely independent of that. Three cars blew up on me, stuff was being thrown. I went home all bruised that day…” - EMT PATRICIA ONDROVIC Interview Date: October 11, 2001

So the NWO threw in some car bombs for good measure.

Interesting.

[SDC]

Looks like LC -- who is posting more again, now that PDoh's latest sock has disappeared -- has decided that the cars were used as explosive devices.

Anyone want to bet?

[LastChild]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

That or they'll claim that she's a liar. Maybe Gravey can start a google page campaign against her. Oh that's right he checked out. Too bad.

[CHF]

Any plans on following up on those exploding cars, LC?

I do find it slightly odd that this woman isn't running around screaming "inside job!"

[DGM]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

That or they'll claim that she's a liar. Maybe Gravey can start a google page campaign against her. Oh that's right he checked out. Too bad.
Now you bad mouthing EMT's? Nice.

[16.5]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

Gee, LastChild posts another angry little off topic rant. Have you ever posted anything on this site that wasn't loaded with bitter snark?

Anyhow, I do feel bad for the EMT, she appears to have spoken to that nasty little no-planer thug KillTown.

[Architect]

Hey, I've no time for LC's Truther posts but all he/she did initially was offer up a reference. No need to jump down his/her throat like that.

[Norseman]

Is the burning car and smoke real?

This looks like the parking lot that was west of West St and north of Vesey. That car would easily be 1,000 ft from the north tower and quite a long toss for some debris capable of setting a car afire.

http://wtc7lies.googlepages.com/059.jpg/059-full.jpg

It is well outside the damage radius show in this map
http://baldur.globalsymmetry.com/fact911/images/misc/GJS-WTC105.jpg

I can't find any discussion of damage to the northern part of WFC3, the building seen in the upper right of the picture. It kind of looks like windows closest to West st. are blown out but apparently no fire was started.

Yes it is real. Here is a post I wrote about this photo last year. You will find links to additional photos of the parking lot in the post:
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=3092940#post3092940

[dudalb]

Crowded Streets in the most crowded Neighborhood on earth , flaming debris falling from the two towers, and a few cars catch fire.
THIS IS THE SMOKING GUN! 9/11 WAS AN INSIDE JOB!

[Mangoose]

Check out the Bob and Bri video -- you've got a very good view of the parking lot just before the collapse of the North Tower.

[ElMondoHummus]

This looks like the parking lot that was west of West St and north of Vesey. That car would easily be 1,000 ft from the north tower and quite a long toss for some debris capable of setting a car afire.

Some debris was found even farther out than that. For example, the landing gear:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/wtc_p200003-1.jpg (Map of the landing gear relative to where the jets hit the towers. Not a photo of the gear itself.)

Granted, that's wreckage from the planes, not the building collapse instead. But my point is that the events of that day affected a much bigger radius than just the area defined by the WTC complex itself.

And: While it's true that most debris maps don't extend out to that parking lot, those debris maps tend to concentrate on where a majority of debris was found. As the landing gear example shows, individual pieces were found even farther out. On top of that, is that parking lot really much further out than the 90 West building is? That one we're discussing in its own thread (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=108006), and that was definitely hit by tower debris.

[WildCat]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

That or they'll claim that she's a liar. Maybe Gravey can start a google page campaign against her. Oh that's right he checked out. Too bad.
Damn LC, you broke the whole case wide open! You see, we at the NWO just had to set that last car on fire in order to invade Iraq and take away people's civil rights. The whole operation wouldn't have worked if it wasn't for that burning car!

And we would have gotten away with it if it wasn't for you meeddling kids!

[alexg]

Check out the Bob and Bri video -- you've got a very good view of the parking lot just before the collapse of the North Tower.
Beat me to it. That video, near the end, clearly shows a massive cloud being routed through a channel between buildings which goes right onto that parking lot. I looked closely at this beacuse this is the lot that Magz was sure was hit by a missile. You can perhaps just make out something solid in that cloud racing ahead of the smoke in the direction of that car. There is no mystery here, I assure you. Watch the Bob and Bri video all the way through.

http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1183545f0b6f27772c.jpg

[Cylinder]

...Granted, that's wreckage from the planes, not the building collapse instead...

Where were these cars located in relation to the large holographic fireball that the NWO imposed onto my television signal?

I know - the directed energy weapon used to soften structural members of the towers caused a series of localized EMP pulses that send a overvolt through auto electrical systems. Clearly Silversteen was making a fart joke when he ordered someone to "pull it."

The first question was kind of serious, though. Where were these autos in relation to the line of the final flight paths

[defaultdotxbe]

But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced.
why would be have to be mistaken? (BTW youd lose that bet)

[jaydeehess]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

That or they'll claim that she's a liar. Maybe Gravey can start a google page campaign against her. Oh that's right he checked out. Too bad.

Mistaken, no reason to jump to that conclusion.

The aircraft impact produced a fireball and a lot of paper being spread around. Chances are good that a lot of burning paper made it to ground level many blocks from the buildings. This could ignite fires welll before the collapses and all the FF's are at the towers not fighting any vehicle fires. Thus one car burning could easily become several nearby parked cars burning.

Then there is the collapses themselves in which light material easily goes out even further.

Where is the mystery?

[ElMondoHummus]

The first question was kind of serious, though. Where were these autos in relation to the line of the final flight paths

The parking lot was to the west of both flight paths. The map I linked above - http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/wtc_p200003-1.jpg - shows the flightpaths; the parking lot is on the right side of that graphic at the 3 o'clock position.

The cars would be out of the paths of the jets. But really, all I was pointing out was that some debris did land a fair amount outside the boundaries of the WTC complex. Again, 90 West was hit by flaming debris, and that building is two blocks away.

[njslim]

Burning debris ignites vehicles. Once one car catches fire the radiant heat/flames ignite
adjacent vehicles. Seen it enough in parking lots - once one car gets going will, unless
FD is there to supress it, ignites adjacent vehicles. Once saw burning car set fire to 3
other cars next to it ..

[SDC]

Burning debris ignites vehicles. Once one car catches fire the radiant heat/flames ignite
adjacent vehicles. Seen it enough in parking lots - once one car gets going will, unless
FD is there to supress it, ignites adjacent vehicles. Once saw burning car set fire to 3
other cars next to it ..

Seeing that we live in the same metro area... Could you post the names/ addresses of your favorite parking lots, so that I may avoid them?

Thanks. (Speaking as someone who has never seen a car on fire in a parking lot.)

[njslim]

Pathmark Route 46 West shopping center - about 10 years ago, day before Thaksgiving
Was in store when heard call over my radio, ran out to see car on fire, dumped my
dry chem extinguisher on engine compartment, another 10 lb dry chem from police,
another 10 lb from fire chief as came up to scene . Fire toasted 3 cars around original
vehicle before Engine company arrived. Took 2 engines to fight fire (1000 gallons of
water before went out) . Modern cars are chock full of plastics which burn real nice -
once get going almost impossible to put out before burns down to bare metal.

[SDC]

Was it CD?

[jaydeehess]

back in the 1980's in a grocery store parking lot a car caught fire. the FD was called but a tow truck driver who was just getting back in his vehicle drove over and pushed the car into the lane between parking rows. The fire was in the engine compartment but no one could get the hood open because it was too hot. The cars that had been on either side were just a little scorched since the car had been moved so quickly. Otherwise there could easily have been three cars on fire when the FD got there.

The FD had an easier time fighting the fire when they got there because the vehicle was easy to get at.

If the FD had not gotten there and the car had not been pushed away from the others such as would have been the case on 9/11 then many cars would have burned freely.

Now consider what was occuring in the underground parking lots after the collapses.

[SDC]

Were Geo Bush and Cheney seen running out of the parking lots?

[BigAl]

Modern cars are chock full of plastics which burn real nice -
once get going almost impossible to put out before burns down to bare metal.


There are some spectacular google videos of cars with magnesium parts doing what magnesium does when it's hot, especially when water is sprayed on it. Here's one:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8013243437982023826

[TC329]

Gee, LastChild posts another angry little off topic rant. Have you ever posted anything on this site that wasn't loaded with bitter snark?

Anyhow, I do feel bad for the EMT, she appears to have spoken to that nasty little no-planer thug KillTown.


KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?

PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.

KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?

PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.

KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?

PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.

KT: Could you still hear any of these explosions when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?

PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.

KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be explosions?

PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.

KT: Were the explosions going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?

PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.

KT: Where the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?

PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.

KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?

PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small explosions were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.

KT: Did you know which government agencies were in the WTC?

PO: I knew there were a lot of federal agencies in the WTC complex, but I don't know which ones specifically.

KT: Did these policemen run out of the WTC 6 lobby after these explosions occurred, or could you tell?

PO: It didn't look like they did. It looked like they were there making sure no one ran in like I tried to do. I remember seeing them in the doorway, but don't know what happened to them after that.

KT: Did you happen to notice if they were wearing any earplugs or any other uncommon protective gear?

PO: There was nothing that I could see. They appeared to be dressed to simply do lobby detail. No flack wear, no overcoats, no helmets. To this day, I still wonder if they got out.

KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?

PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.


KT: Have you ever seen a building being demolished with explosives on TV and was the flashes and pops similar to that?

PO: It did remind me of just that. I had seen something on a Las Vegas casino being demolished and that's what it reminded me of.


http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7508/1605/320/wtc6-aerial.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7508/1605/1600/wtc6-aerial.jpg)
Aerial view of the WTC 6 after 9/11. (Photo source: noaa.gov (http://www.noaanews.noaa.gov/stories/images/wtc-photo-cropped.jpg))



KT: Can you try to describe what these "pops" you heard sounded like?

PO: They sounded like light bulbs popping, but there were no light fixtures where the explosions were coming from. The sound was not all that loud.

KT: Do you think these explosions you witnessed were loud enough to be heard on the street?

PO: Because of everything going on, I don't think these "pops" could have been heard from the street. It was definitely louder outside as a whole.

KT: At the time, who did you think planted these explosives in there?

PO: I didn't have any notions of where to put blame per se, but I remember thinking that it was possibly the same organization who tried to blow up the building back in 1993 (http://killtown.911review.org/oddities.html#February26,1993-WTC_bombed). I figured they came back to finish the job. At the time I was running, I remember thinking that "they" wired the whole area. At the time I wasn't aware that what made the towers catch fire were passenger jets crashing. I thought the buildings had bombs planted to go off that day. The idea of not only one passenger jet, but two took me a while to comprehend -- not to mention the pentagon as well.

KT: Can you estimate how long after you heard the loud rumbling, which was the South Tower coming down, to when you witnessed these explosives going off in the WTC 6?

PO: Well, remember this was all on the same street I was parked. It is very difficult for me to estimate time with so much happening at once, but I want to say maybe 2 to 3 minutes from the rumbling and the ground, and the cars, and the fires, that I tried to run into 6 WTC for cover, which is when I saw those explosions.

KT: Did anybody else besides you and the police witness these explosions in the WTC 6 lobby?

PO: I imagine there must have been others to see, I wasn't the only one running up the street. I can't imagine being the only person to try to run for cover. I didn't see any "civilians" in the lobby of the 6, just the brown uniformed officers.

Source (http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/02/911-rescuer-saw-explosions-inside-wtc.html)

[WildCat]

[/font]

Source (http://killtown.blogspot.com/2006/02/911-rescuer-saw-explosions-inside-wtc.html)
Those are some bombs that sound like light bulbs popping, I bet they were almost as powerful as lady fingers!

Seriously, what the hell was that supposed to prove?

[leftysergeant]

What, exactly, Ondrovic saw is open to interpretation, and probably not worth sifting through. She paniced and lost control. Running with her hair on fire? That sure wasn't what they taught her to do. She seems to be suffering from PTSD at the time of this interview. Got to give her credit for getting into that line of work, but it may be best she find some other career now.

Fires would have spread from one vehicle to another. One whole block seems to have been involved at one point,, to include several buses and trucks. Nothing really to write your congressman about.

One of the cars in the parking lot in question was on fire proximal to the first collapse, and is cited by twoofers as a demolition charge of some sort in the basement, and a causitive factor.

LOL!

[TC329]

Those are some bombs that sound like light bulbs popping, I bet they were almost as powerful as lady fingers!

Seriously, what the hell was that supposed to prove?

KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?

PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.

[beachnut]

KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?

PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.
Ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person in the universe.

If after 6 years you had anything, anything at all, you would have a Pulitzer Prize; but you have only one thing! FAILURE. And you do it so effortlessly. How can you do it so often, so easily? Got evidence!? not yet huh

[leftysergeant]

Okay. Wait a minute here. Ondrovic is talking about Building 6, isn't she? She thinks she saw explosives going of inside the building, and she was standing in the foyer of that building talking to men who were guarding the inside of the building while explosive demolition charges were going off inside...

Sounds like she misinterpretted what she saw and has not thought things out very far. I get the impression of someone sufferiong severe PTSD that has effected her memory.

[leftysergeant]

On my way home from work tonight, I saw a car fire. The car was sitting in the right lane with no other cars around it. There was nothing unusual about it other than the flames rolling out from under the hood. It showed no sings of crash damage. The door was open and the dome light was on. There was no smoke in the passenger compartment. I am going to speculate a little here, and suggest that a fuel line had been damaged and just burst or leaked.

I have had that happen to me the day I picked up my car after a tune-up. Very embarrassing, especially when the first place I could get off the street was into a gas station.

(I have actually been involved in three vehicle fires that were caused by engine malfunctions. Two of them were, of all things, fire trucks. We did not hold our mechanic in especially high regard.)

Bet if whacky old Judy saw it, she would think it was one of the toasted cars from 9/11.

"How come only the front end is toasted?"

[WildCat]

KT: Did you think these explosions in the lobby were maybe lights popping out as in an electrical surge, or did they seem more like explosives going off in a timed manner?

PO: I immediately got the impression they were timed explosives. I have never thought they were anything else, not then, not now.
So timed explosives were going off, and the perps were in the building when this was happening?

This makes sense to you and Killtown TC?

[NYCEMT86]

I 'm just offering the information. I didn't comment on it or offer any conclusions. But I'll bet the debunkers here just know for a fact that the EMT must be mistaken about what she experienced. After all she's just an EMT so how could she be smart enough to know if her hair was on fire or not? At least not as smart as all the genius debunkers here at JREF.

That or they'll claim that she's a liar. Maybe Gravey can start a google page campaign against her. Oh that's right he checked out. Too bad.

Yeah damn those ignorant EMTs.....


First, she isn't a demolitions expert so any reference to explosives should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Second, she had a huge mental break down. She thought she saw a plane blew up over jersey and tried to get to westchester, until a conditions officer stopped her and the crew. (Do I blame her? Not at all, I hope she can live the rest of her life in peace)

Third, it wouldn't take much for the old turnout jackets to catch fire, they didn't offer any fire resistance, one of the reasons why the dept got new turnout gear.