1992 Amsterdam apartment block crash

[peteweaver]

On the fourth of october 1992, shortly after taking off from Schipol, an El Al 747 cargo plane crashed into an Amsterdam apartment block causing immense damage, and collapsing the middle section of the building.

Last week I noticed a troofer on a yahoo forum mention this crash, and claimed that despite massive damage to the building, it didn't collapse.

The troofer, hadn't checked his facts.

This pic shows what happened to the building:http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/1549047d547ebec5dc.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11213)

If anything it adds to the case against the troofer's.

That towerblock clearly had not been constructed the same way as the wtc's, but in its impact area there was a total progressive collapse.

[CHF]

Hey, let's not ignore the obvious: where's the plane???

I don't see one, do you?

Looks like a missile impact to me. :rolleyes:

[Blender Head]

Christ these comparisons don't even make sense! How can they continue making them?

Nevermind, don't answer that...

[SpitfireIX]

Hey, let's not ignore the obvious: where's the plane???

I don't see one, do you?

Looks like a missile impact to me. :rolleyes:


Here's a larger picture (http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/ELAL_Amsterdam4.jpg). Okay, all you no-planers, please answer: Where's the plane?

[WildCat]

Oh noes, El Al! That means Joooooooos!!11!!!1!1!

[fuelair]

Hey, let's not ignore the obvious: where's the plane???

I don't see one, do you?

Looks like a missile impact to me. :rolleyes:
Don't be silly, that was obviously done by a laser-guided Belgian Smart-Waffle.

[peteweaver]

I reckon Poirot did it; whenever he's about twiddling his moustache, there's always some poor so and so gets killed.

[Horatius]

Don't be silly, that was obviously done by a laser-guided Belgian Smart-Waffle.



OMG! The NWO has deleted all Google references to these "Smart Waffles"! It must be troo!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22smart+waffle%22&meta=

[SpitfireIX]

OMG! The NWO has deleted all Google references to these "Smart Waffles"! It must be troo!

http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22smart+waffle%22&meta=


Always remember, the lack of evidence is proof of two conspiracies: the original and the cover-up. :rolleyes:

[Miragememories]

That towerblock clearly had not been constructed the same way as the wtc's, but in its impact area there was a total progressive collapse.

NO.

"At 6:35 pm local time, the Boeing 747, in nearly a ninety-degree bank with its right wing pointing at the ground, plowed into two high-rise apartment complexes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartment_complex) in the Bijlmermeer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijlmermeer) neighborhood, at the corner of a building where the Groeneveen complex met the Klein-Kruitberg complex. The building exploded into flames and partially collapsed inward, destroying dozens of apartments. The cockpit came to rest east of the flats, between the building and the viaduct of Amsterdam Metro Line 53."

MM

[CHF]

But MM....where's the plane???

[peteweaver]

Mirage, its obvious from the wider angle pic that the plane hit not two blocks but one zig zag shaped building.
http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/ELAL_Amsterdam4.jpg

And where the plane crashed there was a progressive collapse around the impact point.

[Alferd_Packer]

How can anyone compare a concrete residential building with a steel framed office building is beyond me.

Did your truther bring up the DU issue with the Amsterdam crash?

[ellindsey]

I have heard conspiracy theorists mention this crash, but it's been more in context of the alleged chemical weapon precursors being carried aboard, and the claimed government suppression of their presence.

[LastChild]

But MM....where's the plane???

Maybe it melted along with the blackbox.

BTW where's the global collapse???

And did they ever come clean about exactly what kind of chemicals they were hauling and how much?

[Newtons Bit]

I have heard conspiracy theorists mention this crash, but it's been more in context of the alleged chemical weapon precursors being carried aboard, and the claimed government suppression of their presence.

Of course there were chemical weapon precursors on board. It's called "jet fuel".

[peteweaver]

Lastchild, look at the design of the building, the load is distributed over a much wider area.

Thats why there was no global collapse.

Incase you didn't notice, there was no global collapse of the pentagon either.

______________________________________________

Alfred, no my twoofer didn't bring up DU. Just parroted the "but the building didn't fall down" nonesense without looking at any pics of it.

[Earthborn]

Mirage, its obvious from the wider angle pic that the plane hit not two blocks but one zig zag shaped building.It may look that way, but it isn't true. Those were two seperate apartment buildings, one large zig zag shaped building named "Groeneveen", the other small and rectangular named "Klein-Kruitberg", which means Small "Kruitberg", which is the name of the large zig zag shaped building in the background.

Here (http://www.satellite-sightseer.com/id/10961/Netherlands//Amsterdam/Bijlmerramp__Bijlmer_disaster_) is a recent Google map of the area, which of course doesn't show any damage, but does show you the lay-out of the area.

[Newtons Bit]

Something tells me that there were likely expansion joints near the corner (not at the corner but on either side). Buildings have an upper limit of how long they can be before thermal expansion starts becomming a huge problem. Typically we limit buildings to 300 feet in any one direction so as to not have to worry about this. This would help minimize the damage from the collapse propagating. I would like very much to see the structural plans for this building.

But in any event, it's not that tall of a building. A progressive collapse generally spreads down and out at the same time. If it can't move down anymore, the collapse is going to halt.

[einsteen]

One of my best friends saw it crashing. Seconds of disaster has a nice documentary about it, metal fatique in one of the engines, the engine came loose and collapsed with the other one. It created a complete gaping hole in the corner of those two flat blocks. A lot of debris has been found, the engines somewhere in a lake if I remember well.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=bijlmer+crash

[MetalPig]

Not related to anything, but last week a kid died at 16. His parents were killed in the Bijlmer crash when he was a baby.

[peteweaver]

Earthborn, here's wikipedia's diagram of the blocks of flats, the red ones are the ones which are still standing, the grey ones have been demolished.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Map_of_Bijlmermeer.svg

That entire section, hit by the boeing was demolished.

But it was ONE building the boeing hit, not two.

[Mr. Skinny]

Something tells me that there were likely expansion joints near the corner (not at the corner but on either side). Buildings have an upper limit of how long they can be before thermal expansion starts becomming a huge problem.
Off topic - wouldn't mind hearing about the major differences between expansion joints and vibration isolation joints between buildings...or where I could read about it.

[Phaedrus74]

Oh noes, El Al! That means Joooooooos!!11!!!1!1!

It was obviously a practice run..

Note that it occurred almost precisely nine years before 9-11.
This practice run occurred in october, which is september + one.
This practice run occurred on the 4th of that month which is precisely one week before the 11th.

9-1-1

WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!eleventy!!!1!!1!1!

Also note that this was a cargo plane, loaded with chemicals to be tested for deployment using cropdusters as evidenced by the large number of mysterious guys in white hazmat suit.

Also the recording of the final messages relayed form the plane is obviously a recording pointing to the fact the the plane was in fact remote controlled.

/sarcasm

Sorry, but I couldn't resist. This occurred right after I started in college in Amsterdam. And some relatives of mine lived very close by. Awful business...

[Dave Rogers]

A lot of debris has been found, the engines somewhere in a lake if I remember well.

So the engines came off when the plane was shot down, missed the apartment block and landed in a lake somewhere else, and you don't find that suspicious?

Dave

[Phaedrus74]

So the engines came off when the plane was shot down, missed the apartment block and landed in a lake somewhere else, and you don't find that suspicious?

Dave

The really suspicious thing is that the engines that fell off were apparently forcefully projected backwards along the flight path (approx. 15 miles I think).

I'm guessing they were testing the rockets they would later tie to the debris from WTC to make it overtake the collapsing buildings that, as we know, fell at near freefall speeds!!

*Sigh*

[Phaedrus shuffles off to get his meds....]

[aggle-rithm]

Not related to anything, but last week a kid died at 16. His parents were killed in the Bijlmer crash when he was a baby.

Could it be that the NWO doesn't want any offspring growing up and taking revenge?

Just asking questions.

[aggle-rithm]

The really suspicious thing is that the engines that fell off were apparently forcefully projected backwards along the flight path (approx. 15 miles I think).

I'm guessing they were testing the rockets they would later tie to the debris from WTC to make it overtake the collapsing buildings that, as we know, fell at near freefall speeds!!



Not only that, but if you trace the flight path of the plane backwards it leads...

DIRECTLY TO THE AIRPORT!!!!



[Phaedrus shuffles off to get his meds....]

Have some for me, will you?

[Phaedrus74]

Not only that, but if you trace the flight path of the plane backwards it leads...

DIRECTLY TO THE AIRPORT!!!!


Da Troof!! They Hurtz!!


Have some for me, will you?

I think I will, I feel like I'm coming down with something (at near freefall speeds)...

[Earthborn]

But it was ONE building the boeing hit, not two.This (http://www.bijlmerbreakz.com/images/Bijlmerpics/luchtfoto_mei1992.jpg) pre-disaster airphoto suggests that you may be right. Why then do all sources, including wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862) say there were two? Must be a conspiracy!

[Phaedrus74]

This (http://www.bijlmerbreakz.com/images/Bijlmerpics/luchtfoto_mei1992.jpg) pre-disaster airphoto suggests that you may be right. Why then do all sources, including wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862) say there were two? Must be a conspiracy!

The confusion arises (I think) from the fact that the building(s) were two with respect to (postal) adresses [Klein Kruitberg and Groeneveen].

It might very well be the case though that they formed one contiguous structure.

On the other hand, this confusion is probably engineered to deflect attention from the real issues.

[aggle-rithm]

I think I will, I feel like I'm coming down with something (at near freefall speeds)...

Then I'll just sit back and enjoy the vicarious placebo effect.

[Phaedrus74]

Then I'll just sit back and enjoy the vicarious placebo effect.

Just promise me you won't be operating heavy machinery ;)

[einsteen]

So the engines came off when the plane was shot down, missed the apartment block and landed in a lake somewhere else, and you don't find that suspicious?

Dave
I don't understand what you are saying. It was metal fatigue in one of the pins for the engine (if I remember well), the engine hit the other one and they fell into the lake, the pilot tried to do his best but collapsed into that flat corner. Oh and debris has been found, a complete landing gear, the fuselage etc.

[Dave Rogers]

I don't understand what you are saying. It was metal fatigue in one of the pins for the engine (if I remember well), the engine hit the other one and they fell into the lake, the pilot tried to do his best but collapsed into that flat corner. Oh and debris has been found, a complete landing gear, the fuselage etc.

Metal fatigue in one pin? Do you honestly expect me to believe that there is no redundancy in a structure as important to an airliner as the engine support pylon, so that the failure of a single pin can cause an engine to fall off? As for an engine hitting another engine, let me remind you that the engines are side by side under the wings, and gravity pulls downwards, so for one engine to hit another one, gravity would have to change direction. All the debris could easily have been planted. It's quite clear that there's some kind of coverup going on here.

Dave

[aggle-rithm]

Metal fatigue in one pin? Do you honestly expect me to believe that there is no redundancy in a structure as important to an airliner as the engine support pylon, so that the failure of a single pin can cause an engine to fall off? As for an engine hitting another engine, let me remind you that the engines are side by side under the wings, and gravity pulls downwards, so for one engine to hit another one, gravity would have to change direction. All the debris could easily have been planted. It's quite clear that there's some kind of coverup going on here.

Dave

The pin was made by Halliburton, maybe.

ETA: My mistake. Halliburton got the contract for the REDUNDANT pin. It will be ready Tuesday.

[BenBurch]

Metal fatigue in one pin?

Ah, the famous "Single Pin Theory." As if one magic pin could do all that!

They have used this before in the AA-191 crash at O'Hare Airport, Chicago on May 25th, 1979. Say that a stressed pin caused the engine to fall off.

Yeah, right.

Pull the other one.

Obviously this was just a dress rehearsal for the 1992 Amsterdam Conspiracy.

[Miragememories]

Mirage, its obvious from the wider angle pic that the plane hit not two blocks but one zig zag shaped building.

And where the plane crashed there was a progressive collapse around the impact point.

I posted the quote from the original news story and did not edit their wording.

"At 6:35 pm local time, the Boeing 747, in nearly a ninety-degree bank with its right wing pointing at the ground, plowed into two high-rise apartment complexes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartment_complex) in the Bijlmermeer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bijlmermeer) neighborhood, at the corner of a building where the Groeneveen complex met the Klein-Kruitberg complex. The building exploded into flames and partially collapsed inward, destroying dozens of apartments. The cockpit came to rest east of the flats, between the building and the viaduct of Amsterdam Metro Line 53."

MM

[WildCat]

I posted the quote from the original news story and did not edit their wording.



MM
And...?

[PhantomWolf]

I don't understand what you are saying. It was metal fatigue in one of the pins for the engine (if I remember well), the engine hit the other one and they fell into the lake, the pilot tried to do his best but collapsed into that flat corner. Oh and debris has been found, a complete landing gear, the fuselage etc.

Sounds to me like you are just quoting the offical story. Have you seen these so called debris and checked their serial numbers? If not, how do you know that they really were found there and were actually part of the plane? For that matter do you have any footage of the so called crash? How do you know it really was a plane that hit the building? It could have been a missile or a truck bomb.

[Storm Warning]

According to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Al_Flight_1862#Official_victim_count), At very high temperatures such as those encountered after the crash of a jet loaded with fuel, about 1100 degrees Celsius, bodies can be completely incinerated.. [Off topic] I don't really follow this stuff much, but isn't one of the basic tenets of the TM that the WTC fires couldn't possibly be over 800 degrees? [/off topic]

[LashL]

I posted the quote from the original news story and did not edit their wording.
MM


Yes, you have now twice posted a quote without providing its source, and it appears that the conclusions you drew from your uncited source are incorrect. So, your point is what, exactly? That you are adept at quote mining and at posting uncited sources in hopes that nobody calls you on it?

Please post the source of your quote and please explain how and why you think that your source decisively supports your view on the point at issue. And please explain how you reconcile your conclusions with the other evidence that has been provided, since the latter appears to decisively refute the conclusions that you drew in your prior posts on the matter.

[funk de fino]

As been mentioned already. Serial numbers people? Where are they?

I also note the pilot aimed exactly at the corner point of that building instead of the edges where the important residents were housed:rolleyes:

[Dave Rogers]

As been mentioned already. Serial numbers people? Where are they?

Has the tape from the CVR ever been released to the public? If not, why not?

Dave

[SpitfireIX]

Has the tape from the CVR ever been released to the public? If not, why not?

Dave


The cockpit voice recorder was never found, a point to which LastChild alluded upthread. One theory is that El Al had removed the CVR at the behest of some Israeli military or intelligence organization, due to the flight's having carried classified military cargo. Here is a transcript (http://www.airdisaster.com/cvr/elal1862.shtml) of the air-traffic control tape (note that the text is incorrectly identified as having come from the CVR).

[einsteen]

Sounds to me like you are just quoting the offical story. Have you seen these so called debris and checked their serial numbers? If not, how do you know that they really were found there and were actually part of the plane? For that matter do you have any footage of the so called crash? How do you know it really was a plane that hit the building? It could have been a missile or a truck bomb.
If you didn't know it, I'm no no-planer.