NY Gov Spitzer linked to prostitution ring?

[LTC8K6]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html?em&ex=1205294400&en=d0917c3b73427b6a&ei=5087%0A

ALBANY - Gov. Eliot Spitzer has informed his most senior administration officials that he had been involved in a prostitution ring, an administration official said this morning.

He was the AG too!

[LTC8K6]

http://www.nysun.com/article/72574

[LTC8K6]

He is apparently resigning, so I guess the Lt Gov will be sworn in.

[Drudgewire]

As attorney general, he also had prosecuted at least two prostitution rings as head of the state’s organized crime task force.

In one such case in 2004, Mr. Spitzer spoke with revulsion and anger after announcing the arrest of 16 people for operating a high-end prostitution ring out of Staten Island.
I'm wondering if he only went after the ones who charged him extra for a dirty sanchez. :p

[LTC8K6]

He has apparently been indicted as well...

[HarryKeogh]

whoa...messed up. I voted for him too. What a jackass (him, not me).

[kosai]

Legalize It!

[ravdin]

He is apparently resigning, so I guess the Lt Gov will be sworn in.

I haven't seen anything (explicit) announcing his resignation. Source?

[Drudgewire]

I haven't seen anything (explicit) announcing his resignation. Source?
He didn't do so at his news conference:

Spitzer's press announcement was short and sweet and devoid of details. Without specifying what he was talking about -- but the context was clear -- Spitzer apologized to his family. "I have acted in a way that violates my obligation to my family.... I must now dedicate my time to regain the trust of my family."

He also apologized "to the public, and I promise better. I do not believe that politics in the long run is about individuals. It is about ideas, the public good and doing what is best for the state of New York." Spitzer also said he "failed to live up to the standard I expected of myself." He took no questions.
-Source (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/03/report-that-ny.html)

[Björn Toulouse]

I haven't seen anything (explicit) announcing his resignation. Source?


I just saw the video of the conference. I do not believe the video occurred live on any news channel because it lasted just over one minute. Despite what FOX initially reported as a resignation statement, he did not say that. Also the document that appears to be referred to as an indictment is actually a complaint that could lead to an indictment. As I am writing this, FOX is desperately backing away from a few abrupt assumptions.

[BPSCG]

Hm. Linked article's opening paragraph doesn't identify which party he belongs to, so I guessed Democrat.

Finally got down to about the 16th paragraph before I found out I was right.

[kosai]

Seems he is one of Hillary's superdelegates...

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2007/05/15/152300

[Pardalis]

Since this is not a homosexual republican controversy, I'm willing to bet this is going to be put under the file "normal sexual transgression" and have no effect. :rolleyes:

[kosai]

Hm. Linked article's opening paragraph doesn't identify which party he belongs to, so I guessed Democrat.

Finally got down to about the 16th paragraph before I found out I was right.


This game is easy, the giveaway is he had sex with a woman.

[Drudgewire]

Seems he is one of Hillary's superdelegates...

http://blog.hillaryclinton.com/blog/main/2007/05/15/152300
Thank goodness. I've been worried hookers were being deprived of health care benefits. :p

[BPSCG]

Democratic NJ Governor McGreevey, resigned in homosexual affair scandal, affiliation in third paragraph (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E5DD143FF930A2575BC0A9629C8B 63&scp=1&sq=mcgreevey+resigns&st=nyt).

Republican Senator Larry Craig's affiliation mentioned in the very first sentence (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E2DA133FF93AA1575BC0A9619C8B 63&scp=2&sq=%22larry+craig%22+&st=nyt).

[ravdin]

Hm. Linked article's opening paragraph doesn't identify which party he belongs to, so I guessed Democrat.

Finally got down to about the 16th paragraph before I found out I was right.

I will say one thing in Spitzer's favor. Unlike most politicians (Republican and Democrat), when he was caught red handed he owned up to it right away.

He ought to resign immediately, but it looks like the announcements are premature.

[LTC8K6]

Why did everyone skip over my "apparently"?

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/spitzer.prostitution.ring.2.673848.html

Sources: Spitzer Not Expected To Continue Term
Governor Could Resign, Swear In Lt. Gov. David Paterson Tonight
NEW YORK (CBS) ― Gov. Eliot Spitzer was not expected to continue as governor and may resign by Monday evening, sources told CBS 2, after it was reported that he was linked to a prostitution ring.

Reliable sources told CBS 2 Political Reporter Marcia Kramer that Lt. Gov. David Paterson could be sworn in as governor as early as 7 p.m. Monday.

[Yoink]

Hm. Linked article's opening paragraph doesn't identify which party he belongs to, so I guessed Democrat.

Finally got down to about the 16th paragraph before I found out I was right.
Yes, that's right--the New York Times knows that almost nobody knows the party affiliation of an obscure official like the Governor. Boy--if you hadn't been brave enough to read those 16 paragraphs they might have managed to fool everyone into thinking he's a Republican!

Have a look at coverage of Governors in large states by the local media. You'll find that unless the specific topic is the Governor's relationship to their party in the legislature (e.g. "Schwarzenegger in Rocky Relationship with GOP") they very rarely discuss them as "Republican Party Governor Schwarzenegger" or "Democratic Party Governor Spitzer."

On the other hand, whenever anybody mentions a senator who is not nationally known (e.g. Craig) they will automatically give their party affiliation and state.

But do please, go ahead believing in crazy conspiracy theories.

[Lurker]

Democratic NJ Governor McGreevey, resigned in homosexual affair scandal, affiliation in third paragraph (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9903E5DD143FF930A2575BC0A9629C8B 63&scp=1&sq=mcgreevey+resigns&st=nyt).

Republican Senator Larry Craig's affiliation mentioned in the very first sentence (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F05E2DA133FF93AA1575BC0A9619C8B 63&scp=2&sq=%22larry+craig%22+&st=nyt).

BPSCG:

I can find you plenty of Dem scandals where party affiliation was pretty up front and some Republican scandals where party affiliation was buried.

Lurker

ETA: I don't like making statements without backing them up so here are two examples.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,192019,00.html
(Former Governor – mentions Republican in 29th paragraph)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,195183,00.html
(KY Governor indicted – no mention of him being a Republican)

[marksman]

If he resigns does he get to keep his superdelegate status?

[The Painter]

Why did everyone skip over my "apparently"?

Because that's what people do here. They disregard the parts they don't want, and bash you for no good reason. Learn it, live it, love it. You can do it too, and be one of the crowd.

Back to the Gov, This is the guy who campaigned on bringing ethics back the NYS government. Oops. Maybe he was investigating a whore house and he fell and his penis went right in there. It was an accident. The money he gave her was just to pay for damages.

[dudalb]

Well, the Late Night Comics have their material fo the next few days.

[dudalb]

Legalize It!
I agree, but I also feel the a governor should set an example when it comes to obeying laws. I am old fashioned like that.

[Kaylee]

Wow. Talk about self-destructing! He couldn't have seriously thought he could have kept this a secret? :boggled:

Especially considering how he built his reptuation. From the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html):

Mr. Spitzer gained national attention when he served as attorney general with his relentless pursuit of Wall Street wrongdoing. As attorney general, he also had prosecuted at least two prostitution rings as head of the state’s organized crime task force.

In one such case in 2004, Mr. Spitzer spoke with revulsion and anger after announcing the arrest of 16 people for operating a high-end prostitution ring out of Staten Island.

“This was a sophisticated and lucrative operation with a multitiered management structure,” Mr. Spitzer said at the time. “It was, however, nothing more than a prostitution ring.”


As a politician, I suspect he did far more good than harm for NY State. Too bad he self-destructed.

[Alt+F4]

Albany as trampy as Trenton? Who knew!

[dudalb]

If he resigns does he get to keep his superdelegate status?

Technically yes, there are a number of superdelgates who are not office holders,but in reality I think he will probably be asked to give up his superdelagate status if he resigns as governor.

[dudalb]

Albany as trampy as Trenton? Who knew!

Maybe Tony Soprano ownes the Albany ring as well....

[Skeptic Guy]

Because that's what people do here. They disregard the parts they don't want, and bash you for no good reason. Learn it, live it, love it. You can do it too, and be one of the crowd.

Back to the Gov, This is the guy who campaigned on bringing ethics back the NYS government. Oops. Maybe he was investigating a whore house and he fell and his penis went right in there. It was an accident. The money he gave her was just to pay for damages.

No body is bashing LTC, just asking for sources for the claims. Not unjustified considering the forum.

[WildCat]

This game is easy, the giveaway is he had sex with a woman.
It didn't seem to affect Barney Frank's career when his boy-toy was running a gay prostitution ring out of Frank's house.

[EBU]

Hm. Linked article's opening paragraph doesn't identify which party he belongs to, so I guessed Democrat.

Finally got down to about the 16th paragraph before I found out I was right.

The NY Times article identified his party in paragraph 3 (4th sentence of the article).

[Donal]

Wow. Talk about self-destructing! He couldn't have seriously thought he could have kept this a secret? :boggled:

Especially considering how he built his reptuation. From the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html):




As a politician, I suspect he did far more good than harm for NY State. Too bad he self-destructed.

You'd be wrong. He used the New York State police to trail the head of the New York State legislator, Joe Bruno (an opposition Republican).

He tried pushing driver's licenses for undocumented workers (ya, because illegal aliens are going to lining up to fill out paper work at government offices).

His administration has been nothing but a comedy errors.

[marksman]

As an Attorney General, he did a lot of good. As a governor, he's been an unmitigated disaster. New York hasn't seen a collapse this fast since... well, since last year's New York Mets.

[Deus Ex Machina]

I wonder why it is that seemingly bright, powerful people like Spitzer can do something so monumentally dumb. Not just the getting caught by an FBI operation - after all he can just write that off to bad luck - but he has to know, as Governor he is always going to be at the mercy of anyone who recognizes him. This is dumb beyond belief.

I make a prediction here - this is not a "one off" mistake. I bet there are some "ladies of talent" contacting newspapers and "Inside Edition" (LOL) type shows.

[NoZed Avenger]

Maybe Tony Soprano ownes the Albany ring as well....

It looks more like the Gambino family, since a prosecution there seems to have led to this one.

So forgetting the moral angle for a moment, he likely put miself in a very blackmailable position vis-a-vis a major crime family.

Smart.

[Donal]

As an Attorney General, he did a lot of good.

Ironically by busting on financial abuse on wall Street and prostitution rings

As a governor, he's been an unmitigated disaster. New York hasn't seen a collapse this fast since... well, since last year's New York Mets.

feel free to bite me. That still hurts.I was at Maine's near perfect game.

[marksman]

Ironically by busting on financial abuse on wall Street and prostitution rings
Yep. I guess what made him such a good prosecutor was familiarity with the territory!

feel free to bite me. That still hurts.I was at Maine's near perfect game.
That was self-deprecating humor. I died a little the day they were eliminated.

[dudalb]

It looks more like the Gambino family, since a prosecution there seems to have led to this one.

So forgetting the moral angle for a moment, he likely put miself in a very blackmailable position vis-a-vis a major crime family.

Smart.

The Gambino's?
John Gotti is laughing in the beyond.

[Uzzy]

As someone who's primary interest in this is my love of video games, I must point out the hypocrisy of a politician who said this

Like all parents, I know it is increasingly difficult to protect our children from negative influences… we have learned that when self-regulation fails, government must step in… we must do more to protect our children from excessive sex and violence in the media…
Media content has gotten more graphic, more violent and more sex-based… Currently, nothing under New York State law prohibits a fourteen-year old from walking into a video store and buying… a game like ‘Grand Theft Auto,’ which rewards a player for stealing cars and beating people up. Children can even simulate having sex with a prostitute…
Being caught up in a prostitute ring.

Source. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin)

Personally, I'm of the opinion that prostitution should be legal, but heh. Politicians getting caught on their hypocrisy is always a good thing.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I agree, but I also feel the a governor should set an example when it comes to obeying laws. I am old fashioned like that.

I agree. I can't believe I voted for a john. Too bad that there's really no such thing as un-voting for someone. Shame on him.

As for the New York papers not ID-ing him as a Democrat, of course they didn't. I should hope that all literate adults in a given state already know the party affiliation of their highest elected official. :confused: Even when he was Attorney General, I certainly didn't have to be told he was a Democrat.

[Drudgewire]

As someone who's primary interest in this is my love of video games, I must point out the hypocrisy of a politician who said this

Being caught up in a prostitute ring.
It's not hypocritical. It's just now we understand why he got so huffy about a game where you can kill hookers. :D

[dudalb]

It's not hypocritical. It's just now we understand why he got so huffy about a game where you can kill hookers. :D


Damn you, Drudgwire!
I was going to make a Godfather 2 reference.

[Donal]

Media content has gotten more graphic, more violent and more sex-based

Ya, its called the evening news.

[Hutch]

This caught my eye in the CNN report:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html

According to prosecutors, Emperors Club VIP charged between $1,000 and $5,500 an hour and operated in New York; Los Angeles, California; Miami, Florida; London, England; and Paris, France.

Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?

Regarding the OP; Gee, a male politician let his (____ Nixon) do his thinking for him. What else is new?

[Drudgewire]

Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?

From Smoking Gun

"Kristen" spoke with a Emperors Club booker, who said that she had been told that Client-9 [Spitzer] "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think were safe..." "Kristen" responded by saying, essentially, that she could handle guys like that.

I'm not going to speculate, as the internet long ago taught me "extras" can pretty much mean anything the sickest minds could ever imagine these days.

[WildCat]

Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?
Theoretically, the $5,500 is for her to keep her mouth shut. Apparently not the case here.

[ravdin]

Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?

When you're a prominent public figure, the extra discretion needed will cost you. In your case, it might not cost so much. ;)

Dang, WC got there first.

[Drudgewire]

There's still more to it than that. I would think discretion was a given with all the girls at this service. Somehow I don't see the madame telling a client "if you only pay a thousand there's a greater chance she'll shoot her mouth off to the press."

[Donal]

Theoretically, the $5,500 is for her to keep her mouth shut. Apparently not the case here.

all that money and she doesn't use her mouth?

[dudalb]

Taking bets as to how long until we see a TV Movie about this.

[Hutch]

Theoretically, the $5,500 is for her to keep her mouth shut. Apparently not the case here.

Heck, get a $100/hr lady and wear a Batman mask.

[The Painter]

Never really trusted him. Didn't vote for him. I never understood why, when he was AG, he never went after Medicare fraud. It's rampant in NYS.

I don't believe it was a one shot deal
she had been told that Client-9 "would ask you to do things that, like, you might not think were safe..."

Sounds like he'd been there before. What a perv.


If he does resign, the Lt. Gov takes over. He is blind. Would he be the first blind Gov in the USA?

[ravdin]

There's still more to it than that. I would think discretion was a given with all the girls at this service. Somehow I don't see the madame telling a client "if you only pay a thousand there's a greater chance she'll shoot her mouth off to the press."

Absolutely, discretion is a given. For the premium prices you're paying for the privilege of being on a small, elite client list. But I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

[dudalb]

all that money and she doesn't use her mouth?


Maybe she could'nt,if we are talking bondage...:D

[ravdin]

If he does resign, the Lt. Gov takes over. He is blind. Would he be the first blind Gov in the USA?

Yes, he would.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Paterson

[Drudgewire]

Maybe she could'nt,if we are talking bondage...:D
I don't even want to imagine how she says her safe word then. :eek:

[dudalb]

I don't even want to imagine how she says her safe word then. :eek:

Some kind of signal, I guess,since gagging is common in Bondage and there are elaborate safety rules involved.

[Drudgewire]

Some kind of signal, I guess,since gagging is common in Bondage and there are elaborate safety rules involved.
Thanks Mr. Ruin-the-Bit Guy. http://www.lethalwrestling.com/upload/colbert.gif

[Donal]

Absolutely, discretion is a given. For the premium prices you're paying for the privilege of being on a small, elite client list. But I don't think there's anything more to it than that.

Its like a renting Ferrari. It looks nice and you get the prestige. but, the ride isn't that good, you can't bring it down the street in public, you don't know who else has been in it, and you don't dare let your friends touch it. Not worth the price.

[ravdin]

If he resigns does he get to keep his superdelegate status?

There's an article about that here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/03/10/would-spitzer-lose-his-superdelegate-vote.aspx

The short answer is that Spitzer would lose his superdelegate status if he resigns. But if the party has to pick another superdelegate, it will probably be another Clinton supporter (as are almost all party officials from her home state).

[BPSCG]

I should hope that all literate adults in a given state already know the party affiliation of their highest elected official.Hope all you want. Hope until you're blue in the face. I guarantee you the percentage of New Yorkers who could not correctly answer the question, "What is the name of the governor of New York?" is a two-digit number.

:confused: Even when he was Attorney General, I certainly didn't have to be told he was a Democrat.Yeah, but you actually care.

And anyway, the New York Times is supposed to be a national newspaper. Our pinko neighbor across the street gets it in her driveway every morning (I usually pick it up on my way to work and throw it away for her before she wakes up - she's been complaining about the Times's rotten delivery for months now), and we're 250 miles south of New York City.

[BPSCG]

He is blind. Would he be the first blind Gov in the USA?Okay, I know there's a joke in there somewhere, but since they already seem to be flowing pretty freely here, I won't try to dig it out.

[ponderingturtle]

I wonder why it is that seemingly bright, powerful people like Spitzer can do something so monumentally dumb. Not just the getting caught by an FBI operation - after all he can just write that off to bad luck - but he has to know, as Governor he is always going to be at the mercy of anyone who recognizes him. This is dumb beyond belief.

I make a prediction here - this is not a "one off" mistake. I bet there are some "ladies of talent" contacting newspapers and "Inside Edition" (LOL) type shows.

Exactly why visit prostitutes when the more traditional mistress's have much fewer political complications?

[PAC]

As an Attorney General, he did a lot of good. As a governor, he's been an unmitigated disaster. New York hasn't seen a collapse this fast since... well, since last year's New York Mets.


I would agree with your comment on his status as governor. I take issue
with your assesment of his activity as Attorney General. Discretion is the
better part of beating business to death. He had little discretion in his
quest to make a name for himself. He destroyed many businesses and many
business people who did not deserve it. He damaged economies throughout New York, a state which can not afford to lose any more business. He was heavy handed and uncompromising where it was not called for.

[marksman]

We'll have to agree to disagree on that, then.

[Bikewer]

I had just put up a post about the hazards of prostitution for public figures in another thread.... Seems the price of sin has risen somewhat over the years as well.

We had a situation some years back where the local St. Louis prosecutor was on very much of a moral high-horse. Cracking down on prostitution, adult videos, and the like. Till he was caught by the county PD soliciting prostitution, and a search of his office found tons of porn paid for with public tax dollars....
Naughty, naughty....

[Yoink]

And anyway, the New York Times is supposed to be a national newspaper. Our pinko neighbor across the street gets it in her driveway every morning (I usually pick it up on my way to work and throw it away for her before she wakes up - she's been complaining about the Times's rotten delivery for months now), and we're 250 miles south of New York City.
Yeah, serve that pinko right! Those lousy pinkos and their lack of respect for the sanctity of private property.

Wait, what?

[Cicero]

Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?


Gov. Spritzer apparently was a devotee of golden showers, hence the $5K price tag for the 6-pack of Sam Adams. Had Spritzer paid his bill to the call girl, the Lt/ Gov would not be warming up in the bullpen.

[dudalb]

There's an article about that here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/03/10/would-spitzer-lose-his-superdelegate-vote.aspx

The short answer is that Spitzer would lose his superdelegate status if he resigns. But if the party has to pick another superdelegate, it will probably be another Clinton supporter (as are almost all party officials from her home state).

I stand corrected.
I thought he was through as a superdelegate anyway,but did not know it was tied to the office.

[Donal]

There's an article about that here:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/03/10/would-spitzer-lose-his-superdelegate-vote.aspx

The short answer is that Spitzer would lose his superdelegate status if he resigns. But if the party has to pick another superdelegate, it will probably be another Clinton supporter (as are almost all party officials from her home state).


No, this is New York. Her home state is Illinois.

[dudalb]

Gov. Spritzer apparently was a devotee of golden showers, hence the $5K price tag for the 6-pack of Sam Adams. Had Spritzer paid his bill to the call girl, the Lt/ Gov would not be warming up in the bullpen.


I know that two consenting adults in the privacy of their bedroom,etc.....
but that is just plain gross.

[dudalb]

No, this is New York. Her home state is Illinois.


I believe the term used is "Carpetbagger".

[Donal]

I believe the term used is "Carpetbagger".

I originally typed that along with a bunch of other less than complimentary adjectives, but then I remembered the forum rules.

[BPSCG]

Gov. Spritzer apparently was a devotee of golden showers...Evidence?

[Cicero]

Evidence?

The agent said she had been told the client "would ask you to do things that ... you might not think were safe ... very basic things," according to the papers, but that Kristen responded by saying, "I have a way of dealing with that ... I'd be, like, listen dude, you really want the sex?"

Draw your own conclusions.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2008/03/10/ap/headlines/d8vaqhj00.txt

[Random]

And anyway, the New York Times is supposed to be a national newspaper. Our pinko neighbor across the street gets it in her driveway every morning (I usually pick it up on my way to work and throw it away for her before she wakes up - she's been complaining about the Times's rotten delivery for months now), and we're 250 miles south of New York City.

Please tell me you are joking. I have never liked your politics, but I have never had any problem with you personally. Now you are telling us you steal someone else's property that they have paid money for, and you are gloating about it on a public forum...

[Memento_mori]

well shoot. I'm sorry. $5500 may have been worth it to some. I would not have gone over 4k. It's all negotiable. I think for 4k, she could have forgotten my name, but maybe just given me a high five at a party or something. At my age even the innuendo would be ego boosting. I really liked the photo of his wife who "stoically looked on". I doubt it was stoicism. Meh, to be 40 again and know what I know now.

[BPSCG]

Yeah, serve that pinko right! Those lousy pinkos and their lack of respect for the sanctity of private property.

Wait, what?

Please tell me you are joking. I have never liked your politics, but I have never had any problem with you personally. Now you are telling us you steal someone else's property that they have paid money for, and you are gloating about it on a public forum...More evidence for my post-doctoral thesis, which is that liberals are a humorless, grim lot who want everyone else to be just like them.

Of course I'm joking, you puzzlewits!

She's a good friend and a better neighbor and we hatehatehate each other's politics but would do anything for each other as long as it's legal and wouldn't involve breaking marriage vows or doing detestable things with goats :goat. She's pissed off at me right now because I sliced my hand open Friday morning before going to work and called 911 to get me to the hospital to have it stitched up (believe me, there was gore everywhere) instead of calling her and getting her to drive me so I could spurt blood all over her nice new Toyota Prius.

'Course, that didn't stop me when we were at a party Saturday night and I heard her saying that people are afraid to talk freely any more because of Bush, and I sidled up to her and said, "Yeah, Paula, people are scared to death to call Bush a Nazi fascist murdering liar, aren't they?" At which point she hit me and told me to shut up. A couple of hours later she and Mrs. BPSCG and Mr. Paula and I were in their car on the way to a concert together.

Jeeze, you libs... Lighten up willya?

[BPSCG]

The agent said she had been told the client "would ask you to do things that ... you might not think were safe ... very basic things," according to the papers, but that Kristen responded by saying, "I have a way of dealing with that ... I'd be, like, listen dude, you really want the sex?"

Draw your own conclusions.I read that, didn't conclude golden showers. Still don't. Golden showers are, well, maybe not a routine part of a hooker's life, but they're not at all unknown. And even if I find the idea disgusting, I don't see how they're particularly dangerous. I think someone else here wrote about combination deep-throat and bondage, and the possible choking hazard; that sounds like it could be somewhat dangerous.

And of course there are, I'm sure, lots of dangerous sex games out there that I wouldn't dream up even given a couple of millennia.

[ravdin]

I believe the term used is "Carpetbagger".

Uh, right. I don't disagree. I was just making the point that any superdelegate the NY Dems would appoint to replace Spitzer would almost certainly be in Clinton's camp.

[Puppycow]

At first I was going to defend him, but as it turns out he prosecuted these prostitution rings himself (although I don't know whether that was simply unavoidable given his job or if he went out of his way to do it), I can't say I have a lot of sympathy left.

The question then becomes, will he be forced to resign? I'm not sure. There have been some recent prostitution scandals like with David Vitter, who continues to serve as a Senator. What, if anything, makes this different?

[Donal]

He was the attorney general. He could have done it quietly. Instead, he made a big show out of it and made sure we all knew how disgusted he was with prostitution.

[PAC]

As Attorney General he was ruthless and vindictive. When you play that game you better make sure your own back yard is super clean. In most
cases I would say so what? In his case, I think he should face what he would have done to someone else in his situation.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I agree that a former Attorney General and the Gov. of New York State better personally abide by the same law that he represents- publically- and better not be laundering money and buying sex- but I'm also offended by his behavior.

What a sleazy creep. What an idiot, too. And I helped elect him :(.

[ravdin]

Spitzer broke the law. It might not be a law I agree with, but he broke it all the same. He also put himself in a compromised position. As was discussed elsewhere on this thread, he was paying a lot of money to have his dirty secrets kept. That's rather alarming for someone in a position with a lot of power and responsibility.

If I were a NY voter, I would consider forgiving him. But he should step down immediately. It's the only way he can avoid bringing further disgrace on himself.

[jsfisher]

If I were a NY voter, I would consider forgiving him. But he should step down immediately. It's the only way he can avoid bringing further disgrace on himself.

No doubt he's looking to cut a deal to resign in exchange for not being prosecuted. He cannot drag out the negotiations, though, because the feds don't have to agree. Meanwhile, impeachment proceedings will probably start by the end of the week if he hasn't stepped down by then.

[Just thinking]

Yes, he should resign ... if anything to bring back a shred of decency to his family. I saw a photo of him and his wife at a podium where he was commenting on the event, and she didn't look all too pleased. And I think he has a small child. Just what kind of roll model will he now be once his/her friends start bringing it up in school and elsewhere? And it will be brought up.

[Puppycow]

Hypocrisy is the main reason why I cannot, after all, rise to defend him.
I don't think that prostitution between consenting adults is a crime. But, apparantly as AG, Spitzer did (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/nyregion/11spitzer.html?pagewanted=2&hp).
As attorney general, Mr. Spitzer’s signature issue was pursuing Wall Street misdeeds. But he also prosecuted at least two prostitution rings as head of the state’s organized crime task force.

In one such case in 2004, Mr. Spitzer spoke with revulsion and anger after announcing the arrest of 16 people for operating a high-end prostitution ring out of Staten Island.

“This was a sophisticated and lucrative operation with a multitiered management structure,” Mr. Spitzer said at the time. “It was, however, nothing more than a prostitution ring.”

[Puppycow]

Spitzer's new nickname, BTW, shall forever more be "Client 9." (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/10/AR2008031002724.html?hpid=topnews) :D
He'll never live that one down.

[Cicero]

I read that, didn't conclude golden showers. Still don't. Golden showers are, well, maybe not a routine part of a hooker's life, but they're not at all unknown. And even if I find the idea disgusting, I don't see how they're particularly dangerous. I think someone else here wrote about combination deep-throat and bondage, and the possible choking hazard; that sounds like it could be somewhat dangerous.

And of course there are, I'm sure, lots of dangerous sex games out there that I wouldn't dream up even given a couple of millennia.

The "danger" was that the call girl didn't want to violate the Heidi Fleiss Convention against "waterboarding" the Governor.

[Puppycow]

Hillary Clinton "sends her best wishes and thoughts to the governor and to his family" (http://www.slate.com/blogs/blogs/xxfactor/default.aspx)

[Cicero]

There have been some recent prostitution scandals like with David Vitter, who continues to serve as a Senator. What, if anything, makes this different?

Ah, he violated The Mann Act, a felony, and the Statute of limitations had run out on Vitter's visits to a brothel.

[SezMe]

Had Spritzer paid his bill to the call girl, the Lt/ Gov would not be warming up in the bullpen.
The funny part is the real situation is the exact opposite. The account I read said his bank orginally blew the whistle on him because of a large number of unusual transactions. They - and the FBI - thought he was illegally laundering money or some such shady financial transaction. It wasn't till the wiretaps that they found out about the hookers. Now, if he had been an all-cash customer.....

[steverino]

She's a good friend and a better neighbor and we hatehatehate each other's politics but would do anything for each other as long as it's legal and wouldn't involve breaking marriage vows

Evidence?

[davefoc]

Does Spitzer have the kind of money that $5500 every now and then for a prostitute is something that reasonably fits into the family budget?

One of the things I got from reading a few articles on this was that the prostitution might be the lease of his problems. Money laundering or other financial malfeasance seem to be hanging over his head. But there doesn't seem to be much information out there yet about what is really going on with this case.

I noticed what BPSCG did about the fact that his party affiliation wasn't mentioned very prominently in the news reports. It surprised me. It seems like party affiliation is routinely mentioned. Although when was the last time that Bush was identified as a Republican in a news report? Maybe, its a similar situation with the governors when the coverage originates in their state (as was suggested above)?

Is anybody else a little disgusted with the whole loyal wife standing beside her husband at these press conferences? What the hell is the point of having the wife there? It is hard to believe that they want to be there and for me it just makes the guy look sleazier for parading her in front of the reporters?

[steverino]

Is anybody else a little disgusted with the whole loyal wife standing beside her husband at these press conferences? What the hell is the point of having the wife there? It is hard to believe that they want to be there and for me it just makes the guy look sleazier for parading her in front of the reporters?

Great point. Wish I'd thought of it. You are right. It's so forced and artificial.

[Cylinder]

I noticed what BPSCG did about the fact that his party affiliation wasn't mentioned very prominently in the news reports. It surprised me. It seems like party affiliation is routinely mentioned. Although when was the last time that Bush was identified as a Republican in a news report? Maybe, its a similar situation with the governors when the coverage originates in their state (as was suggested above)?

What do you think are the style rules here (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Blotter/popup?id=2841254&contentIndex=1&page=7)?

[Puppycow]

Does Spitzer have the kind of money that $5500 every now and then for a prostitute is something that reasonably fits into the family budget?
Good question. According to this (http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=207914), his salary as governor is $179,000. What other legitimate sources of income he might have, I don't know.

One of the things I got from reading a few articles on this was that the prostitution might be the lease of his problems. Money laundering or other financial malfeasance seem to be hanging over his head. But there doesn't seem to be much information out there yet about what is really going on with this case.
Stay tuned.

I noticed what BPSCG did about the fact that his party affiliation wasn't mentioned very prominently in the news reports. It surprised me. It seems like party affiliation is routinely mentioned. Although when was the last time that Bush was identified as a Republican in a news report? Maybe, its a similar situation with the governors when the coverage originates in their state (as was suggested above)?Yeah, I don't know how much of this is conscious on their part. If it had been Pataki or Giuliani, would they have mentioned it up front?

Is anybody else a little disgusted with the whole loyal wife standing beside her husband at these press conferences? What the hell is the point of having the wife there? It is hard to believe that they want to be there and for me it just makes the guy look sleazier for parading her in front of the reporters?

Very good point. It makes it look like he's using her as a metaphorical human shield. IIRC, wasn't there even some guy who actually brought his kids?

[Kopji]

His wife looked pretty destroyed in the clips, I felt sorry for her. To not be there would make her look bad (we the public suck soooo much), but a good compromise could have been for him to have a black eye.

[Regnad Kcin]

Gov. Spritzer apparently was a devotee of golden showers...Evidence?Asking Cicero for evidence is as funny as his intentional misspelling of someone's name is not.

[Random]

What do you think are the style rules here (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Blotter/popup?id=2841254&contentIndex=1&page=7)?

Tough to say. There are five Democrats listed, and the piece does not mention the affiliation of four of them, and there are eight republicans listed and the piece does not mention the affiliation of two of them. On the one hand, clarifying that Bill Clinton is a Democrat is probably not necessary, but who is James West, and why does it not mention he is a Republican?

[Kestrel]

The funny part is the real situation is the exact opposite. The account I read said his bank orginally blew the whistle on him because of a large number of unusual transactions. They - and the FBI - thought he was illegally laundering money or some such shady financial transaction. It wasn't till the wiretaps that they found out about the hookers. Now, if he had been an all-cash customer.....

I do money transfers of that size several times a year. Should I assume the FBI is tapping my phone?

[Dr Adequate]

Curses ... all the good jokes have been taken.

[coalesce]

Well, it looks like Spitzer put the "Party" back in "Democratic Party."

Michael

[BPSCG]

Curses ... all the good jokes have been taken.DA, you must be off your usual game to be saying this. Come on - you have a famously arrogant politician, you have money laundering, you have prostitutes, you have (apparently) weird sex. There have to be at least fifteen pages of good jokes.

[The Painter]

Spitzer or swallower?

[BPSCG]

Getting serious for a minute.

I don't live in NY any more, so I probably don't have the detailed info that some others might have. But Spitzer seems to have gotten a reputation for playing exceptionally dirty politics, as both governor and AG. He ordered state troopers to tail the (Republican) state senate leader, publicly accused people of committing crimes, then never indicted them or apologized. Sounds like this might be the classic case of a powerful guy brought down by hubris.

[Francesca R]

I heard this quote on the UK BBC News: I want to briefly address a private matter. I have acted in a way that violates my obligations to my family and violates my, or any, sense of right and wrong.
Source (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliot_Spitzer#Prostitution_scandal)At first I presumed that Spitzer was claiming that using a prostitution service violates any sense of right and wrong and I thought: BS and quite incorrect. I suppose it could be that the hypocrisy of doing this and having his job and lying was the violation of any sense of right and wrong.

Either way, it makes resignation inevitable.

[BPSCG]

I heard this quote on the UK BBC News: At first I presumed that Spitzer was claiming that using a prostitution service violates any sense of right and wrong and I thought: BS and quite incorrect. I suppose it could be that the hypocrisy of doing this and having his job and lying was the violation of any sense of right and wrong.

Either way, it makes resignation inevitable.However anyone feels about whether prostitution should be legalized or not, the fact is that where there's a prostitution ring, there's generally a link to organized crime. That's why he has to go. Whether he likes to pee on hookers for $5,000 an hour is comparative small potatoes.

[marksman]

Good question. According to this (http://www.stateline.org/live/details/story?contentId=207914), his salary as governor is $179,000. What other legitimate sources of income he might have, I don't know.
Spitzer's father was a real estate mogul in New York. He and his family are worth billions of dollars. Spitzer is not hurting for money and can easily afford $5500/hour hookers.

The problem for Spitzer was that banks keep track of transactions over $10,000. So Spitzer tried to pay for his trysts with lots of little payments just under $10,000, but the banks watch for that too. They told the FBI, who thought Spitzer might be involved in money laundering or possible embezzling public funds. Then they found out he was just trying to discretely pay for sex.

And yes Beeps, since becoming Governor he has acted inappropriately, using State police to try to sting his political opponents. Now he's been stung and the person he tried to sting -- Republican Senate Majority Leader Joe Bruno -- is going to serve as "acting Lieutenant Governor" and get to keep his seat in the Senate. This is huge because the Republicans only had a one-seat majority in the Senate and now Bruno effectively gets two votes (http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/archives/2008/03/how_the_spitzer.php).

(In addition, this may not bode well for Democrats in the upcoming Senate races.)

[Rob Lister]

Sounds like this might be the classic case of a powerful guy brought down by hubris.

or possibly, and more specifically, Langone (http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/bizfinance/finance/features/15300/)

No, I don't seriously think Langone had anything to do with it but I bet he's laughing his ass off.

ETA: Seems Langone is the co-founder and board member of ChoicePoint (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ChoicePoint). Thus, Langone is very likely in a position to see all of Spitzer's financial data, up to and including [possibly] bank transactions.

[BPSCG]

It's Bush's fault (http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/3/10/185251/010/127/473813). At the Daily Kos:
Mark my words...this has the Bush Administration's fingerprints all over it...and if the MSM digs a little deeper, they will find what Congress is afraid to look for...evidence that Bush's wiretap program has less to do with terrorists than it has to do with political foes.
:D

[Deus Ex Machina]

Theoretically, the $5,500 is for her to keep her mouth shut. Apparently not the case here.

I would have thought that the $5,500 was for the exact opposite of keeping her mouth shut.

[Dr Adequate]

DA, you must be off your usual game to be saying this. Come on - you have a famously arrogant politician, you have money laundering, you have prostitutes, you have (apparently) weird sex. There have to be at least fifteen pages of good jokes. There are --- and they were first made by Og about Clan Chief Thag.

"So that's why they call him Homo erectus. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the mammoth."

[jsfisher]

There are --- and they were first made by Og about Clan Chief Thag.

"So that's why they call him Homo erectus. Thank you, I'll be here all week. Try the mammoth."


You are not even trying, DA. Don't your realize Eliot Spitzer is famous for his hard on crime stance? Some say he's had this coming for years.

[Cicero]

Whether he likes to pee on hookers for $5,000 an hour is comparative small potatoes.

You have the roles reversed. Just ask Regnad for conformation.

[Darth Rotor]

Prediction: Martha Stewart roasts some schadenfreude sausage on the spit(zer) this evening for dinner, while the former DA eats a bit of crow.

Four or five years ago, the big story was, speaking of hubris, that Elliot devours Martha and Spitzer out, into a jail cell.

A dissenting opinion on the case.
Now it is Martha Stewart and mutual funds who have been targeted as a prosecutor’s path to a political career. Martha Stewart is falsely charged with "insider trading," an offense of which she cannot be guilty as she is not an insider and had no information from an insider.

Legal scholar and law school dean Henry Manne has shown (Wall St. Journal, 1-8-04) that prosecutor Eliot Spitzer’s charges against mutual funds are largely trumped-up. The offenses are partly the unintended result of a Security and Exchange Commission "reform," which capped redemption fees that mutual funds used to discourage market timers.

Prosecutor Spitzer’s claims about mutual funds are based, not on law, but on an academic paper written at the Stanford University Graduate School of Business. In other words, the prosecutor has a "theory." Professor Manne has shown the academic paper to be incorrect. What we are witnessing is a mutual fund witch-hunt based on an incorrect academic theory.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts29.html

For the hat trick, I have a vision of a living room in Connecticut last night:
*fade scene*

Martha Stewart spitzer coffee all over the carpet when she sees this story on TV.

Then she laughs herself silly, whilst quickly cleaning it up using her Martha Stewart life style super carpet cleaner sponges, available at Sears for $19.95 per pack.

DR

[dudalb]

At first I was going to defend him, but as it turns out he prosecuted these prostitution rings himself (although I don't know whether that was simply unavoidable given his job or if he went out of his way to do it), I can't say I have a lot of sympathy left.

The question then becomes, will he be forced to resign? I'm not sure. There have been some recent prostitution scandals like with David Vitter, who continues to serve as a Senator. What, if anything, makes this different?




Spitzer lives in New York,which has the most aggresive and merciless press and media in the world.
I also think for the reasons you give, the Hypocrisy factor is greater then with Vitter and Craig.
It's not a question of criminal law whether or not he keeps his office but one of politics, and New York state is not known for being merciful to politicians caught in embarassing situations.

[dudalb]

For someone who is supposed to be one of the great defense attorney's Allen Dershowitz made a poor show of defending Spitzer on CNN last night. He seemed not to understand that the question is not how serious from a criminal law point of view Spitzer's offense was,but the damage it does to his public image and ability to govern. His tactics might be effective in convincing a judge to reduce a sentence, but not in appealing to the court of public opinion.
And Dershowitz made a fool of himself in one statement. He claimed the US is the only country in the world where this would be front page news, and the it would be buried on page 26 of the newspapers in Europe.
Within Ten minutes several people has emailed CNN from Europe on who the Spitzer story was the big Page One Story in almost all the newspapers and on most of the broadcasts.
Hey, a high public official getting caught in a prostitution ring would be a #1 story anywhere on the earth exept where the Government controls the press.

[Donal]

And to celebrate, Wall Street rallies the Dow up over 400 points. Thats the biggest single day gain in 5 years. He was so despised.

[marksman]

The Federal Reserve may have had something to do with it too (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jC0Js_XMSCt-GDAijc3qIbjuVZIAD8VBFATO0)

[Donal]

Can I just indulge in a little schadenfreude? Would that be too much to ask?

[dudalb]

All the major news media is reporting that it is not a case of if,but when he resigns. He might be trying to cut a deal before resigning.
In any case, the almost universal opinion is that his political career is toast.

[ravdin]

Can I just indulge in a little schadenfreude? Would that be too much to ask?

Certainly. First of all, all of Spitzer's current problems are entirely of his own doing. Secondly, it's just too damn funny.

If anyone has a problem with your schadenfreude, tell them from me that it's OK.

[Alt+F4]

As someone who voted for (about to be) former Governer Spitzer, I must ask...why did he have to use an international prostitution ring? Why not help the local economy and use one of our New York prostitutes? What, our girls aren't good enough for the governer?

[marksman]

Especially with the weak dollar. I mean that's just fiscally irresponsible!

[Kaylee]

The Federal Reserve may have had something to do with it too (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jC0Js_XMSCt-GDAijc3qIbjuVZIAD8VBFATO0)

Mind connecting the dots?

[BPSCG]

First of all, I recall to your attention the extraordinary fact with which I began. To wit, that the human being, like the immortals, naturally places sexual intercourse far and away above all other joys -- yet he has left it out of his heaven! The very thought of it excites him; opportunity sets him wild; in this state he will risk life, reputation, everything -- even his queer heaven itself -- to make good that opportunity and ride it to the overwhelming climax. From youth to middle age all men and all women prize copulation above all other pleasures combined, yet it is actually as I have said: it is not in their heaven; prayer takes its place.

They prize it thus highly; yet, like all their so-called "boons," it is a poor thing. At its very best and longest the act is brief beyond imagination -- the imagination of an immortal, I mean. In the matter of repetition the man is limited -- oh, quite beyond immortal conception. We who continue the act and its supremest ecstasies unbroken and without withdrawal for centuries, will never be able to understand or adequately pity the awful poverty of these people in that rich gift which, possessed as we possess it, makes all other possessions trivial and not worth the trouble of invoicing.
Satan (as transcribed by Mark Twain, in Letters From the Earth)

He's ruined "his life, reputation, everything," just so he could get a little honey on his stinger.

[Donal]

Mind connecting the dots?

I made a joke about the market having a big day being because of the elation of Spitzer's fall. marksman was just being a killjoy and pointing out the reality it had more to do with the Fed's economic stimulus package.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Satan, as written by Mark Twain, is mistaken. I don't know about other religions but in at least one, Islam, there is sexuality in heaven. The 72 virgins for martyrs and all.

Edit: My god, what was Spitzer thinking? Now, I know what people, and enspecially guys, are like but if I were a high ranking politician with a beautiful spouse and a lovely family, you wouldn't catch me risking it all for 12 minutes of fun. Honestly.

[Donal]

How can they be virgins if they are having sex?

Or, maybe the martyrs will find out why they are virgins.

[Kaylee]

I made a joke about the market having a big day being because of the elation of Spitzer's fall. marksman was just being a killjoy and pointing out the reality it had more to do with the Fed's economic stimulus package.
:o

OK, I read the thread too fast. For some reason I thought ... well never mind what I thought! LoL!

I reviewed Spitzer's political, career in Wiki just for the heck of it. Not NYs best gov, but who knows, maybe he would have improved during the rest of his term.

I still think he did the average NYer more good than harm while he was AG.

And even if he is a hypocritical jerk, and was extremely obnoxious and rude to his political enemies, I'm sorry we will be losing his political talents.

"Mr. Clean" admitted to committing a felony -- he's out. Just a matter of time.

[Donal]

"obnoxious and rude"? His own party members had compared him to Nixon.

[BPSCG]

Edit: My god, what was Spitzer thinking? Now, I know what people, and enspecially guys, are like but if I were a high ranking politician with a beautiful spouse and a lovely family, you wouldn't catch me risking it all for 12 minutes of fun. Honestly.That's 'cuz you're a woman. Think of the last dozen politicians who got in trouble because they let their glands do their thinking. Now eliminate all the men. How many you have left?

'Course, most women politicians are dykes anyway... :duck:

[BPSCG]

I still think he did the average NYer more good than harm while he was AG.

And even if he is a hypocritical jerk, and was extremely obnoxious and rude to his political enemies, I'm sorry we will be losing his political talents.Here's one New Yorker who disagrees with you (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTFkYjFmMTIxNGZkMmQzNWRhYzVkNGRkYmY1ODBlODY=):

A thing I ask myself a lot is: “Why the hell do I live in New York State?” State and local taxes here combine to the highest per capita figure in the nation. Health-insurance premiums are through the roof, owing to our state legislature having mandated coverage for moxibustion, aroma therapy, astral healing, and something called “Thai relief massage” (don’t ask me).

We receive 82 cents in services for every $1 we sends in taxes to the feds, ranking us 42nd in federal spending per tax dollar. The place is crawling with Democrats — both our U.S. senators and 23 out of 29 representatives. The roads are impossible within a fifty mile radius of Manhattan. Our offshore waters are a chemical soup. Al-Qaeda has us marked on their cave-wall maps with a big red-target circle...

...And then there’s our state government. Where does one start? Perhaps with Sheldon Silver, speaker of our state assembly since 1994. When not carrying out his legislative duties, Shelly is “of counsel” to Weitz & Luxenberg, the biggest firm of ambulance chasers in the state. For these services he gets an annual retainer from the firm, widely believed to be in seven figures. How hospitable has our state legislature been to tort-law reform? See if you can guess.

Still, Shelly feels that his efforts on this front may have been insufficient. In January he was called upon to name a member to a state panel that screens appellate and other judges. Whom did he pick? A chap named Arthur Luxenberg, name partner of Weitz & Luxenberg. Whether Luxenberg is the exact guy who signs Silver’s retainer checks, I do not know.

Then there’s state-senate majority leader Joe Bruno, recent subject of an FBI investigation into his consultancy services to an investment firm serving labor unions — unions with regular business before the legislature. Or how about Alan Hevesi, state comptoller until he resigned on a deal after pleading guilty to defrauding the government? Oh, it’s a fun place, New York State.

We might be willing to tolerate crooked pols if they at least got stuff done. What New York State pols mainly do is transfer resources from the private sector to the public sector. The number of state employees increases steadily while business flees the state. A neighbor from upstate tells me that if tumbleweed was native to the northeast U.S., it would be bowling down the streets of Syracuse, Buffalo, Binghamton. The state budget is looking at a deficit of $4.4 billion. With Wall Street tanking — Wall Street provides ten percent of state tax revenues — this will not be getting better any time soon.

For such a dysfunctional state, a dysfunctional governor like Eliot Spitzer was a pretty good match...

...By the time this year’s budget show came round, Spitzer’s political position was similar to Sir Thomas Wyatt‘s at the court of Henry VIII: “They flee from me that sometime me did seek...” He went ahead anyway with a proposal for five percent more state spending and an increased deficit — just the ticket when the state’s biggest single source of tax revenue is in a state of panic.

All the TV talking heads are telling me, with their sternest let-him-who-is-without-sin faces on, that it would be wrong, wrong to poke fun at Spitzer, to kick him when he’s down, to press for his resignation. We should reserve judgment, they tell me. We should think about his family, they tell me. It’s a victimless crime, after all, they tell me.

Well, I and my family have been living for 15 months in the state this guy presides over. We’ve been paying the taxes and premiums, seething in the traffic jams, watching the U-Hauls heading west, dealing with surly, feather-bedded state employees. What I say to the talking heads is: The hell with all that. And what I say to Eliot Spitzer is what Oliver Cromwell said to the Rump Parliament: “Depart, I say; and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!”

[Kaylee]

dup

[Kaylee]

Here's one New Yorker who disagrees with you (http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NTFkYjFmMTIxNGZkMmQzNWRhYzVkNGRkYmY1ODBlODY=):


Well, that article's given me a lot to think about, but for now I'll just say this:

I was talking about Spitzer's overall career and not just his stint as governor.
Perhaps he doesn't have what it takes to be anything other than an AG in elective politics but I think it's difficult to say because ..

Albany (NY's capital) is tough as far as politics goes, I'm not sure that most politicians could do better in the role of governor given who is in the Senate and Assembly. It would be best if the rest of NY State had a policy of 2 consecutive terms and then you are out, like we do in NYC, but that is not the case.

So in the meantime other people who have been the target of investigations and and/or very questionable actions (Bruno, Silver, etc) are staying and the one going is Spitzer. I doubt that most people in NY State will be better off because of that.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Well, what do you know, Democrats.com has sent me an email. I'm posting it for BPSCG to enjoy. :D

Subject: Save Spitzer!

Dear Governor Spitzer,
Don't let the Republicans and the rightwing media drive you out of office!
You made a lot of powerful enemies in your career because you took on the most powerful crooks on Wall Street. Now your enemies are trying to get even by destroying your career and your life. Don't let them!

The whole investigation by the Bush Administration stinks to high heaven. This isn't a case of "structuring" or "money laundering." The FBI never investigates johns - so why are they investigating you?

The answer is obvious. George Bush and Karl Rove turned the Justice Department into the political destruction arm of the Republican Party. They've prosecuted 5.6 Democrats for every Republican.

That's why former Alabama Governor Don Siegelman is rotting in jail, and that's what they want to do to you.

As Americans, we are outraged by Bush's endless abuses of justice. If anyone should be removed from office, it's George Bush!

Governor Spitzer, please stand and fight against this outrageous and naked partisan Republican assault. We support you!
Sign the petition: http://savespitzer.com (http://savespitzer.com/)

###

[Kaylee]

Very interesting.

I am wondering why Spitzer hasn't been arrested yet. Perhaps his defense strategy is to say that the wire traps were illegal?

I'm not happy that Spitzer confessed to a felony, but I don't think I will be contacting my Assembly member urging her to vote for impeachment either.

(In NY State, the impeachment process has to start in the Assembly.)

It will be interesting to see how it plays out. The Democrats have a majority in the Assembly, the Republicans have a majority in the State Senate but only by one seat.

The Democrats are hoping to win a strong majority in both houses in Nov 2008.

I had thougt that this would mean that they would not support Spitzer and go along with the impeachment process if he doesn't resign as the state Republicans are demanding that he do so within 1 -2 days. But if some of the Democrats are planning to play it as an anti-Bush thing rather than a pro-Spitzer thing --- hmm, well I wonder if that would work.

I think most of NY State is conservative so I have my doubts.

NYers, just curious, are you planning on e-mailing or contacting your assembly member one way or the other in regard to how you want them to vote on impeachment?

[Senex]

I find it amazing that an ex-attorney general was ratted out by his bank for engaging in suspicious banking activity. How can he not know better? Doesn't he have any low profile buddies who can do the payments for him? I do that stuff for my famous friends all the time.

I am also surprised how much press this has gotten. I can understand his wife being ready to strangle him -- but the guy was just having heterosexual sex with a high-end call girl. I'm sure she is very clean and discreet and paid enough to not being qualified as an exploited woman.

I hope he doesn't have to resign and soon tries to push legislation to legalize prostitution and pot.

[marksman]

I made a joke about the market having a big day being because of the elation of Spitzer's fall. marksman was just being a killjoy and pointing out the reality it had more to do with the Fed's economic stimulus package.

You call it killjoy and I call it a smarmy retort. PoTAYto PoTAHto

[BPSCG]

Well, that article's given me a lot to think about, but for now I'll just say this:

I was talking about Spitzer's overall career and not just his stint as governor.
Perhaps he doesn't have what it takes to be anything other than an AG in elective politics but I think it's difficult to say because ..From a Wall Street Journal article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120528114453028807.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries) about Spitzer's "media enablers." (may require paid subscription):


Mr. Spitzer portrayed himself as the moral avenger. He was the slayer of the big guy, the fat cat, the Wall Street titan -- all allegedly on behalf of the little guy. The press ate it up, and came back for more.

Time magazine bestowed upon Mr. Spitzer the title "Crusader of the Year," and likened him to Moses. Fortune dubbed him the "Enforcer." A fawning article in the Atlantic Monthly in 2004 explained he was "a rock star," and "the Democratic Party's future." In an uncritical 2006 biography, then Washington Post reporter Brooke Masters compared the attorney general to no less than Teddy Roosevelt...

...What makes this more embarrassing for any self-respecting journalist is that Mr. Spitzer knew all this, and played the media like a Stradivarius. He knew what sort of storyline they'd be sympathetic to, and spun it. He knew, too, that as financial journalism has become more competitive, breaking news can make a career. He doled out scoops to favored reporters, who repaid him with allegiance. News organizations that dared to criticize him were cut off. After a time, few criticized anymore. Instead, reporters felt obligated to run with whatever he handed them.

Consider the report in the wake of a 2005 op-ed in this newspaper by John Whitehead. A respected Wall Street figure, Mr. Whitehead dared to criticize Mr. Spitzer for his unscrupulously zealous pursuit of Mr. Greenberg. Mr. Spitzer later threatened Mr. Whitehead, telling him in a phone call that "You will pay the price. This is only the beginning and you will pay dearly for what you have done." Some months later, after more Spitzer excesses, Mr. Whitehead had the temerity to write another op-ed describing what Mr. Spitzer had said.

Within a few days, the press was reporting (unsourced, of course) that Mr. Whitehead had defended Mr. Greenberg a few weeks after a Greenberg charity had given $25 million to the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation -- a group Mr. Whitehead chaired. So Mr. Whitehead's on-the-record views were met with an unsourced smear implying bad faith. The press ran with it anyway.

In 2005, Mr. Spitzer went on national television to suggest that Mr. Greenberg had engaged in criminal activity. It was front-page news. About six months later, on the eve of a Thanksgiving weekend, Mr. Spitzer quietly disclosed that he lacked the evidence to press criminal charges. That news was buried inside the papers.

What makes this history all the more unfortunate is that the warning signs about Mr. Spitzer were many and manifest. In the final days of Mr. Spitzer's run for attorney general in 1998, the news broke that he'd twisted campaign-finance laws so that his father could fund his unsuccessful 1994 run. Mr. Spitzer won anyway, and the story was largely forgotten.

New York Stock Exchange caretaker CEO John Reed suggested Mr. Spitzer hadn't told the truth when he said that it was Mr. Reed who wanted him to investigate Mr. Grasso's pay. The press never investigated.

Mr. Spitzer's main offense as a prosecutor is that he violated the basic rules of fairness and due process: Innocent until proven guilty; the right to your day in court. The Spitzer method was to target public companies and officials, leak allegations and out-of-context emails to a compliant press, watch the stock price fall, threaten a corporate indictment (a death sentence), and then move in for a quick settlement kill. There was rarely a trial, fair or unfair, involved.Time magazine "bestowed upon Mr. Spitzer the title 'Crusader of the Year,' and likened him to Moses." Coming from the magazine that has seen fit to bestow the Person of the Year Award on, in successive years, Bono and me, that should have set off warning alarms.

[Donal]

gyarr, double post

[Donal]

I find it amazing that an ex-attorney general was ratted out by his bank for engaging in suspicious banking activity. How can he not know better? Doesn't he have any low profile buddies who can do the payments for him? I do that stuff for my famous friends all the time.

Ya, that is really weird.

I am also surprised how much press this has gotten. I can understand his wife being ready to strangle him -- but the guy was just having heterosexual sex with a high-end call girl. I'm sure she is very clean and discreet and paid enough to not being qualified as an exploited woman.

You must have missed the references to Spitzer making his name as AG by running through Wall Street with accusations of fiscal impropriety and also shutting down high end prostitution rings. When he shut down two big rings, he made a big heartfelt speech about how evil prostitution is and what a blight on society it is.

Now, he gets caught funneling money to a mob front company to get himself a hooker.

I hope he doesn't have to resign and soon tries to push legislation to legalize prostitution and pot.

You mean the crimes he became famous for prosecuting?

[BPSCG]

Well, what do you know, Democrats.com has sent me an email. I'm posting it for BPSCG to enjoy. :DYou like me! You really like me!

Subject: Save Spitzer!

Dear Governor Spitzer,
Don't let the Republicans and the rightwing media drive you out of office!Story was broken by the famously right wing New York Times, which editorializes today:To put it bluntly, Mr. Spitzer must either resign immediately or explain why he deserves to continue in office. It is almost impossible for us to imagine how he can survive this scandal and provide the credible leadership that his state needs.

New York’s government cannot afford to be paralyzed while Mr. Spitzer games his political prospects or, as many suspect, tries to work out a better legal deal with federal prosecutors.

Mr. Spitzer didn’t even bother to explain his plans to Lt. Gov. David Paterson, who would step in if Mr. Spitzer does resign. Mr. Paterson told reporters that he had talked briefly with the governor on Monday. But, he said: “No one has talked to me about his resignation, and no one has talked to me about a transition.”

The whole investigation by the Bush Administration stinks to high heaven. This isn't a case of "structuring" or "money laundering." The FBI never investigates johns - so why are they investigating you? Perhaps because when a state's chief executive officer, the guy whose sworn duty is to see to it that the laws be enforced, pays thousands of dollars to a prostitution ring, that money is probably going to organized crime.
As Americans, we are outraged by Bush's endless abuses of justice. If anyone should be removed from office, it's George Bush!What, you can't wait for January 20?


Governor Spitzer, please stand and fight against this outrageous and naked partisan Republican assault. We support you!

Didn't see any place where people can contribute to his legal defense fund, so "we support you," essentially means "with our mouths." Of course, someone who can afford $5,000 an hour for sex probably doesn't need help with his legal expenses. OTOH, he may soon find out how expensive a good divorce lawyer can be.

I signed the petition, adding the comment above about the money going to organized crime. My good deed for the day. :)

[BPSCG]

He's gone (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/thefix/?hpid=topnews).

[Random]

Now he can join David Vitter and Larry Craig on the unemployment line... wait a minute...

[dudalb]

Now he can join David Vitter and Larry Craig on the unemployment line... wait a minute...
Vitter and Craig did not have the New York Media to contend with.You should have seen the tabloid headlines yesterday..including the Democratic Tabloids.
I also think there is such a huge hypocrisy factor here. He got elected partly on campaiging on how as AG he prosecuted big prostitution rings.
That really hurt.
And he is not getting much support from fellow Democrats. Apparently the story that he has a Nixon like personality (few people in your own party really like you) is true.

[Donal]

That and Vetter and Craig didn't send money to mob front companies to pay for their sex escapades. And they also didn't destroy people's lives prosecuting these actions.

[BPSCG]

Vitter and Craig did not have the New York Media to contend with.You should have seen the tabloid headlines yesterday..including the Democratic Tabloids.
I also think there is such a huge hypocrisy factor here. He got elected partly on campaiging on how as AG he prosecuted big prostitution rings.
That really hurt.
And he is not getting much support from fellow Democrats. Apparently the story that he has a Nixon like personality (few people in your own party really like you) is true.That plus the fact that there is almost certainly serious criminality here - not just tapping his foot against a vice squad cop's in the next stall. Prostitution rings usually involve organized crime. There's no way the state's chief law enforcement officer can keep his job if he's helping sustain organized crime. You hear all the talk about how he's negotiating a plea bargain; I think he'll be lucky not to get convicted of a felony. The FBI has been snooping around this for months and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being part of a bigger crime bust. I don't think they were looking for Spitzer in particular; I think they were investigating the prostitution ring, looking to bust some Mafiosi, and they caught a governor while in search of a capo.

[dudalb]

Well David A. Paterson is now the second most famous Blind Lawyer in New York.
This gentlemen remains the first:http://forums.randi.org/imagehosting/thum_1884047d81885d2ef0.jpg (http://forums.randi.org/vbimghost.php?do=displayimg&imgid=11243)

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Richard Roeper wrote a column about it today:

http://www.suntimes.com/news/roeper/837464,CST-NWS-roep12.article

...

Classy -- and depressing

It was sad to see Spitzer facing the press, doing one of those vague apology-conferences that raised more questions than it answered. His stunned wife stood by his side, his reputation in tatters, his future gloomy. I'd be a lot more offended if the guy had been nailed for alleged corruption or abuse of office -- but yeah, he'll have to go. You can't make your bones as a self-righteous crusader and then have something like this happen.

...

[Kestrel]

That plus the fact that there is almost certainly serious criminality here - not just tapping his foot against a vice squad cop's in the next stall. Prostitution rings usually involve organized crime. There's no way the state's chief law enforcement officer can keep his job if he's helping sustain organized crime. You hear all the talk about how he's negotiating a plea bargain; I think he'll be lucky not to get convicted of a felony. The FBI has been snooping around this for months and I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being part of a bigger crime bust. I don't think they were looking for Spitzer in particular; I think they were investigating the prostitution ring, looking to bust some Mafiosi, and they caught a governor while in search of a capo.

You seem to be under the impression that Spitzer was organizing the ring instead of just being a client. Where is you evidence to back this charge?

[BPSCG]

You seem to be under the impression that Spitzer was organizing the ring instead of just being a client. Not at all; I have no reason to believe he was anything more than a client. But when you do business with a criminal enterprise, you are helping support it. That's intolerable, especially for a public official.

[BPSCG]

I wouldn't be surprised if this ends up being part of a bigger crime bust. I don't think they were looking for Spitzer in particular; I think they were investigating the prostitution ring, looking to bust some Mafiosi, and they caught a governor while in search of a capo.Okay, looks like I was wrong about that - seems they were looking at Spitzer in particular. Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/03/12/DI2008031202059.html?hpid=topnews):

Remember, the prosecutors weren't targeting the Emperor's Club, but Spitzer. In order to pay his big bills, he was transferring money. Banks have to report payments over $10k to the IRS -- or amounts sent to the same recipient in smaller batches designed to come in just under $10k.

Spitzer knew this. That's why he was "careful" about sending under $10k amounts -- and tried, unsuccessfully, to get his name off the transfer.

That's part of what makes him look so dumb. He knew this was a way to get caught.

Hell, even Carmela Soprano knew. Remember when she stole Tony's money out of the bin by the poll and then set up a bunch of $9900 account for herself?

[Darth Rotor]

How can they be virgins if they are having sex?

Or, maybe the martyrs will find out why they are virgins.
Perhaps in Muslim heaven, it's all Fallahtio, all the time. :)

Fatwa on Darth Rotor in three, two, one . . .

DR

[Kaylee]

From a Wall Street Journal article (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120528114453028807.html?mod=opinion_main_comment aries) about Spitzer's "media enablers." (may require paid subscription):

Time magazine "bestowed upon Mr. Spitzer the title 'Crusader of the Year,' and likened him to Moses." Coming from the magazine that has seen fit to bestow the Person of the Year Award on, in successive years, Bono and me, that should have set off warning alarms.


I agree about Time magazine, but I sincerely doubt that the WSJ is an unbiased source in regard to Spitzer.

AFAIK and as far as I can recall, the investment industry really needed to be cleaned up in the early 2000s.

Sometimes political bullies are the average voter's best friends. LBJ comes to mind. He gets a lot of credit for getting the Civil Rights laws of the 1960s passed -- but many regarded him as a bully.

Some of the press has said that this is not a tragedy because there is no innocent person involved. I disagree -- what about the average New Yorker? We lost.



I signed the petition, adding the comment above about the money going to organized crime. My good deed for the day. :)
Hmm, did you really sign the petition? I guess you also have mixed feelings about this episode.
ETA: Ignore -- my sarcasm meter is broken this week. :boggled::o

Okay, looks like I was wrong about that - seems they were looking at Spitzer in particular. Link (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/discussion/2008/03/12/DI2008031202059.html?hpid=topnews):
Yes, and that is why this feels more like manipulation than justice for me. Despite claims that the feds received an unsolicitated tip from a bank, I think it was a fishing expedition.


As an aside, Perhaps the newspapers are getting it wrong, but I don't understand why the Feds are not just attempting to nail him on the Mann Act (paying to transport sexual workers across state lines is a felony) but instead apparently are trying to get him on a structuring charge (disguising a large financial transaction (10k plus I think) as smaller transactions to avoid required reporting by financial institutions). Although the payments were illegal they were in fact for separate transactions. As long as they can get him on a felony, why do they care which one?

And it does give me the creeps to think that anyone's banking transaction, phone calls and text msgs can be investigated without any notification. Well, I doubt that the feds would be interested in my phone calls, text msgs and banking transactions (I don't even find the latter particularly interesting, unfortunately :() -- but I still find it very creepy.




And they also didn't destroy people's lives prosecuting these actions.
I get the feeling you feel that everything that Spitzer has done as an AG had no justification. That in fact the investment industries were not violating rules and regulations in the early 200os. Is that true?

[Donal]

I get the feeling you feel that everything that Spitzer has done as an AG had no justification. That in fact the investment industries were not violating rules and regulations in the early 200os. Is that true?

I firmly believe that there was still is misconduct on Wall Street and it needs to be stopped. Spitzer did some of that when he first took office.

However, he didn't stop.And he didn't prosecute equally. He left the firms that his buddies ran or worked at alone and targeted their rivals. And heaven forbid you actually voiced a disagreement with him.

Look at how he hounded Hank Greenburg. Look at his response to John Whitehead's editorial.

he made public and damning accusations that hurt the reputations of a lot of people and firms. And a reputation is how you make business. And what happens to the people who are having those firms handle investments or retirement packages?

[dudalb]

What Donal is saying....and what quite a few people are now saying...is that Spitzer's "Crusader" image was not quite the truth.

[Kestrel]

As an aside, Perhaps the newspapers are getting it wrong, but I don't understand why the Feds are not just attempting to nail him on the Mann Act (paying to transport sexual workers across state lines is a felony) but instead apparently are trying to get him on a structuring charge (disguising a large financial transaction (10k plus I think) as smaller transactions to avoid required reporting by financial institutions). Although the payments were illegal they were in fact for separate transactions. As long as they can get him on a felony, why do they care which one?

The indictment of those involved in the Emperor Club prostitution ring can be found online (http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0310/20080310_041127_spitzer_emperorsclub.pdf) (warning, huge pdf file). If you read that document, they talk about clients 1-10 obtaining services of the club. If this is about law enforcement and not politics, why haven't the names of the other 9 clients been divulged?

[marksman]

As long as they can get him on a felony, why do they care which one?
Well, why not get him on all of them. Not all felonies are created equal.

And it does give me the creeps to think that anyone's banking transaction
Not anyone's. Only single transactions in excess of $10,000 or a series of transaction that appear to be designed to get around the $10,000 rule.

[Jeff Corey]

It looks like Elliot's a Splitster on Monday and Gov. Paterson will be NY's first (and the US's third) black Gov.

[Kaylee]

I firmly believe that there was still is misconduct on Wall Street and it needs to be stopped. Spitzer did some of that when he first took office.

However, he didn't stop.And he didn't prosecute equally. He left the firms that his buddies ran or worked at alone and targeted their rivals. And heaven forbid you actually voiced a disagreement with him.

Look at how he hounded Hank Greenburg. Look at his response to John Whitehead's editorial.

he made public and damning accusations that hurt the reputations of a lot of people and firms. And a reputation is how you make business. And what happens to the people who are having those firms handle investments or retirement packages?

What Donal is saying....and what quite a few people are now saying...is that Spitzer's "Crusader" image was not quite the truth.


OK, I see how you arrived at your point of view. I just think it will go back to business as usual and white collar crime will be barely looked at.


Well, why not get him on all of them. Not all felonies are created equal. Well, that would certainly work also. But the articles I've read seem to indicate that the Feds are not interested in the Mann Act Violation at all. Could be that the papers have got it wrong though, I think that particular violation was mentioned in the legal PDF document that Kestral found.

Not anyone's. Only single transactions in excess of $10,000 or a series of transaction that appear to be designed to get around the $10,000 rule.
Well, based on what's been reported so far, I think it is really strectchin it to say that particular felony applies to Spitzer. It just seems that they were determined to go fishing, so they went fishing.

[BPSCG]

I agree about Time magazine, but I sincerely doubt that the WSJ is an unbiased source in regard to Spitzer.Does it matter more whether they are an unbiased source or whether they report the facts accurately? Do you know anyone who's an "unbiased" source?

Hmm, did you really sign the petition? I guess you also have mixed feelings about this episode.
ETA: Ignore -- my sarcasm meter is broken this week. :boggled::oYes, I signed it. They want your email address, which I supplied. Sometimes I enjoy carefully baiting a hook and casting it out onto the waters, see what bites down.

Yes, and that is why this feels more like manipulation than justice for me. Despite claims that the feds received an unsolicitated tip from a bank, I think it was a fishing expedition.
I heard it was from the bank also, on the news coming home tonight. Seems Spitzer didn't like the loophole that let you wire multiple $9,900 transactions and be safe from having your bank report it to the feds, so he had a new regulation passed (I guess it must be NY banks only...) that closed that loophole. Seems he got caught in his own trap, which would take him out of the category of jerkwad and place him firmly into the category of stupid jerkwad.

As an aside, Perhaps the newspapers are getting it wrong, but I don't understand why the Feds are not just attempting to nail him on the Mann Act (paying to transport sexual workers across state lines is a felony) but instead apparently are trying to get him on a structuring charge (disguising a large financial transaction (10k plus I think) as smaller transactions to avoid required reporting by financial institutions). Although the payments were illegal they were in fact for separate transactions. As long as they can get him on a felony, why do they care which one?
My guess is that it would be a pretty shaky application of the the Mann Act. I think it was intended to keep people from taking advantage of minors. And on top of that, most people would say, "Meh, they're prosecuting him for hiring a hooker?" The structuring charge is more serious, because it gets directly linked to supporting organized crime.

I get the feeling you feel that everything that Spitzer has done as an AG had no justification. That in fact the investment industries were not violating rules and regulations in the early 200os. Is that true?No; I'm sure there were people committing crimes in the investment industry, just as there were people committing crimes in every other industry. But from what I've read, a lot of his methods were pretty despicable; he strikes me as a cheap, dirty politician who built his reputation by acting shocked and outraged at the supposedly heinous crimes he was uncovering, and doing his best to tar his targets in order to build up his public image. Just my $0.02 opinion, not buttressed by a whole lot of research.

I think the reaction on Wall Street may say something. Seems everyone there was grinning yesterday. Why would they celebrate the downfall of someone who had genuinely rooted out true criminality in their industry? I'll bet a lot of people had been wondering when AG Spitzer might go after them on some flimsy charge.

[dudalb]

I think it is a little early for conspiracy theories.And forgive me if I am cynical enough to think that if Spitzer were a Republican and the Justice Department was ran by a Democrat some of the same people screaming politics would not be screaming.
I think thinking SPitzer was not the Knight some people though is not the same as saying we want white collar crime to run rampant.

And Spitzer has suffered the biggest Fall From Grace a Prosecuting Attorney has suffered since Harvey Dent....:yikes:

[Jeff Corey]

Ever hear of Sol Watchler?

[Ladewig]

I heard it was from the bank also, on the news coming home tonight. Seems Spitzer didn't like the loophole that let you wire multiple $9,900 transactions and be safe from having your bank report it to the feds, so he had a new regulation passed (I guess it must be NY banks only...) that closed that loophole. Seems he got caught in his own trap, which would take him out of the category of jerkwad and place him firmly into the category of stupid jerkwad.

Yes, many people still believe there is a $10,000 limit, but with post-9/11 fervor and a desire to follow the money, the amounts being monitored can be much smaller than $10,000.

[Ladewig]

Now you are telling us you steal someone else's property that they have paid money for, and you are gloating about it on a public forum...

More evidence for my post-doctoral thesis, which is that liberals are a humorless, grim lot who want everyone else to be just like them.

Of course I'm joking, you puzzlewits!



I'll call you a thief, Mr. Jokester. You stole that whole steal-my-neighbor's-Times gag from Stephen Colbert. You intellectual-property thief, you!

[BPSCG]

I'll call you a thief, Mr. Jokester. You stole that whole steal-my-neighbor's-Times gag from Stephen Colbert. You intellectual-property thief, you!I don't watch Stephen Colbert - too late for someone who has to get up at 5:30 am. I'm usually lights out right after South Park.

[Kestrel]

I heard it was from the bank also, on the news coming home tonight. Seems Spitzer didn't like the loophole that let you wire multiple $9,900 transactions and be safe from having your bank report it to the feds, so he had a new regulation passed (I guess it must be NY banks only...) that closed that loophole. Seems he got caught in his own trap, which would take him out of the category of jerkwad and place him firmly into the category of stupid jerkwad.

The notification requirement is Federal law. Why on Earth would you believe that a New York state official has the power to change Federal law?

[BPSCG]

The notification requirement is Federal law. I knew the $10,000 notification requirement was. Why on Earth would you believe that a New York state official has the power to change Federal law?Because that was what I (may have mis)heard on the radio news in the car this afternoon - which was why I was asking if it applied only to New York banks.

[Kaylee]

Does it matter more whether they are an unbiased source or whether they report the facts accurately? Do you know anyone who's an "unbiased" source?
True enough. But a source can be 100% factual and still be misleading depending upon the slant and scope of the coverage. Ideally I prefer a balance of biased sources -- with any luck I might come near the actual reality.

Yes, I signed it. They want your email address, which I supplied. Sometimes I enjoy carefully baiting a hook and casting it out onto the waters, see what bites down.:D

I heard it was from the bank also, on the news coming home tonight. Seems Spitzer didn't like the loophole that let you wire multiple $9,900 transactions and be safe from having your bank report it to the feds, so he had a new regulation passed (I guess it must be NY banks only...) that closed that loophole. Seems he got caught in his own trap, which would take him out of the category of jerkwad and place him firmly into the category of stupid jerkwad.
The situation is already full of irony, but that adds another delicious layer.

My guess is that it would be a pretty shaky application of the the Mann Act. I think it was intended to keep people from taking advantage of minors. And on top of that, most people would say, "Meh, they're prosecuting him for hiring a hooker?" The structuring charge is more serious, because it gets directly linked to supporting organized crime.
I'm guessing that the feds are choosing to stretch some points and go for the structuring charge for the delicious sense of irony. It's their chance for immortality! Because this one will definitely make the footnotes in the dusty tomes of law.

FWIW, The Mann Act (http://www.pbs.org/unforgivableblackness/knockout/mannact_text.html) does apply to women also.

ETA I had to take care of something while in the middle of my last post and missed the cross post between Kestrel and BPSCG. I'm not familiar with this law, but I think in general states can add additional restrictions to areas covered by federal law if they like.
This explains why different states handle credit cards differently which is for the most part covered by federal laws and regulations -- but also affected by state laws and regulations.

If Spitzer is responsible for getting the stricter regulation passed, we will no doubt hear about it repeatedly.

[bigred]

Tidbit: not that I expect anyone to believe me or even care per se (I don't), but his sis in law is good friends w/my S.O. Sadly, this family has had more then enough sh** in their lives already - but unlike this moron, they didn't earn or ask for it. And no I don't have any "inside info" - just surprised the hell outta me when I found out.

[Random]

I think the reaction on Wall Street may say something. Seems everyone there was grinning yesterday. Why would they celebrate the downfall of someone who had genuinely rooted out true criminality in their industry? I'll bet a lot of people had been wondering when AG Spitzer might go after them on some flimsy charge.

Or they could all be criminals... :wink:

[Kestrel]

I'm guessing that the feds are choosing to stretch some points and go for the structuring charge for the delicious sense of irony. It's their chance for immortality! Because this one will definitely make the footnotes in the dusty tomes of law.

The indictment of the prostitution ring (http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2008/0310/20080310_041127_spitzer_emperorsclub.pdf) included summaries of phone conversations that made it quite clear how the ring operated. Clients sent in money and were given credit, the credit paid for services rendered. For example:

76. At approximately 8:14 p.m., TEMEKA RACHELLE LEWIS,
a/k/a "Rachelle," the defendant, using the 6587 Number, called
MARK BRENER, a/k/a "Michael," the defendant, at the 0937 Number.
During the call, LEWIS told BRENER that Client-9 had just called
about an appointment for tomorrow, and that he had around $400 or
$500 credit. SUWAL said that she did not feel comfortable saying
that Client-9 had a $400 credit when she did not know that for a
fact. SUWAL and BRENER talked in the background about whether
Client-9 could proceed with the appointment without his deposit
having arrived. (Call 9462R). At approximately 8:23 p.m., LEWIS
called Client-9, and told him that the 'office" said he could not
proceed with the appointment with his available credit. After
discussing ways to resolve the situation, LEWIS and Client-9 I
agreed to speak the following day. (Call 9467R) .

Calling this structuring is a real stretch of the law. The news people should have noticed this, but it seems they don't do research anymore.

[dudalb]

Ever hear of Sol Watchler?


I stand corrected. My fondness for Batman references/jokes got the best of me.
I just saw the first photos of Ashley Dupre,the real name for "Kirsten", apparently a none too sucessful singer.
She's cute,but not $5'000 bucks a night worth.

[jsfisher]

It looks like Elliot's a Splitster on Monday and Gov. Paterson will be NY's first (and the US's third) black Gov.

He will also be the US' first (legally-) blind governor.

[bruto]

This caught my eye in the CNN report:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/10/spitzer/index.html



Now, I admit that I am not the most sexually active homo sapient on this site, but Geez-us Christo, what kind of sex with what kind of woman could possibly be worth $5,500 for an hour!?!?!?

Regarding the OP; Gee, a male politician let his (____ Nixon) do his thinking for him. What else is new?From what I've heard, it was probably not by the hour, not that it makes much difference to the silliness of it all. One source I read described it as more like "time sharing a mistress."

I still wonder what on earth could have been worth that much money and that much risk.

[Drudgewire]

Drudge has the girl's myspace page up this morning. I always love seeing someone who's just become infamous' page, just to read the mundane old comments from before whatever incident launched them and then read all the "stay strong girl" type messages that come next.

Oh, and she's got one of her songs on there too:

http://www.myspace.com/ninavenetta

ETA: Ugh, she's into "Law of Attraction." Now I hate her.

[Damien Evans]

For someone who is supposed to be one of the great defense attorney's Allen Dershowitz made a poor show of defending Spitzer on CNN last night. He seemed not to understand that the question is not how serious from a criminal law point of view Spitzer's offense was,but the damage it does to his public image and ability to govern. His tactics might be effective in convincing a judge to reduce a sentence, but not in appealing to the court of public opinion.
And Dershowitz made a fool of himself in one statement. He claimed the US is the only country in the world where this would be front page news, and the it would be buried on page 26 of the newspapers in Europe.
Within Ten minutes several people has emailed CNN from Europe on who the Spitzer story was the big Page One Story in almost all the newspapers and on most of the broadcasts.
Hey, a high public official getting caught in a prostitution ring would be a #1 story anywhere on the earth exept where the Government controls the press.

It was only on page 23 here.

[Ladewig]

The notification requirement is Federal law. Why on Earth would you believe that a New York state official has the power to change Federal law?

If New York state imposed limits lower than $10,000, then it would not be changing federal law it would simply be imposing a stricter law on its citizens. The state would still be in full compliance of the federal law requiring notification of transactions over $10,000. But more importantly, why the attitude: "why on earth would you believe..."?

In any case, BPSCG was correct.

From the Charlotte Observer (http://www.charlotte.com/123/story/532662.html)
Under the Bank Secrecy Act and other laws, banks, casinos and other financial institutions are required to report currency transactions of more than $10,000. They're also required to report other suspicious financial activities, such as multiple transactions that appear designed to skirt the $10,000 limit.

Money-service businesses, which provide money transfer services, have a threshold as low as $2,000 for reporting suspicious activities. Examples can range from a customer paying with bills bearing an unusual odor to an accountant receiving a large number of money transfers, according to the IRS.



From Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSN1162908820080311?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0)
Financial institutions such as banks, credit unions and casinos are required to establish effective anti-money laundering programs under the Bank Secrecy Act. Under that law, when a customer moves at least $10,000 at a time, bank employees must fill out a currency transaction report (CTR), typically reviewed by the IRS or the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).

Bank employees also scan transactions to spot suspicious or non-routine ones totaling $5,000 or more. Those can result in filing suspicious activity reports (SARs) to alert authorities, who then seek the true nature of the transactions.

"CTRs have no space to describe if it is suspicious or not," the banker said. "SARs deal with whether or not the activity that's been reviewed looks suspicious."

Bank customers can try to get around the reporting requirements by making several smaller transactions instead of one large one, or making deposits in several institutions.

"It's called structuring," another industry executive said, referring to moving amounts below the $10,000 threshold for triggering a review.

[Ladewig]

I don't watch Stephen Colbert - too late for someone who has to get up at 5:30 am. I'm usually lights out right after South Park.

I withdraw the accusation. Stephen's joke was "I steal my neighbor's New York Times and throw it away - partly to prevent her from reading it and partly to prevent her from recycling it."

The show is repeatedly aired the following day.

[BPSCG]

I withdraw the accusation. Stephen's joke was "I steal my neighbor's New York Times and throw it away - partly to prevent her from reading it and partly to prevent her from recycling it."Maybe I can sue him. I hear Spitzer's looking for work these days, and he's good at filing lawsuits.

[BPSCG]

In any case, BPSCG was correct.Even the blind pig occasionally finds the trough...

[Ladewig]

Maybe I can sue him. I hear Spitzer's looking for work these days, and he's good at filing lawsuits.

Except he told the joke a couple of months ago.

[Kestrel]

If New York state imposed limits lower than $10,000, then it would not be changing federal law it would simply be imposing a stricter law on its citizens. The state would still be in full compliance of the federal law requiring notification of transactions over $10,000. But more importantly, why the attitude: "why on earth would you believe..."?

In any case, BPSCG was correct.

From the Charlotte Observer (http://www.charlotte.com/123/story/532662.html)



From Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/ousivMolt/idUSN1162908820080311?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0)

A bit of research would have shown you that that the Bank Secrecy Act is Federal law and the IRS is a Federal agency. The BSA was modified by provisions of the Patriot Act, another Federal law.

So why do you believe that BPSCG was correct in stating that Spitzer, who was an official of the State of New York could have changed the very law he supposedly violated?

[BPSCG]

A bit of research would have shown you that that the Bank Secrecy Act is Federal law and the IRS is a Federal agency. The BSA was modified by provisions of the Patriot Act, another Federal law.

So why do you believe that BPSCG was correct in stating that Spitzer, who was an official of the State of New York could have changed the very law he supposedly violated?So I'm wrong again?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

The babe in question: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/13/spitzer.kristen/index.html

:jaw-dropp

Unlike Clinton, at least Spitzer showed some good judgement.

[fishbob]

Unlike Clinton, at least Spitzer showed some good judgement.

Looking at one little piece of the good judgement pie, I suppose you are right.

[Ladewig]

A bit of research would have shown you that that the Bank Secrecy Act is Federal law and the IRS is a Federal agency. The BSA was modified by provisions of the Patriot Act, another Federal law.

So why do you believe that BPSCG was correct in stating that Spitzer, who was an official of the State of New York could have changed the very law he supposedly violated?

On Tuesday, NPR reported that Spitzer was an important player in getting the law changed to include smaller thresholds. I have searched the NPR site and cannot find the information I heard on the radio. Because there is a tacit rule on this board that assertions without reliable citations are worthless, I have no option but to withdraw the original claim.

[BPSCG]

On Tuesday, NPR reported that Spitzer was an important player in getting the law changed to include smaller thresholds. I have searched the NPR site and cannot find the information I heard on the radio. Because there is a tacit rule on this board that assertions without reliable citations are worthless, I have no option but to withdraw the original claim.dang, we're both hallucinating, 'cuz I heard it on the radio, too, but it wasn't on National Pinko Radio (that's Mrs. BPSCG's station).

[davefoc]

It is interesting as this story unfolds, it looks more like the only underlying crime was prostitution. If this is so it would seem that under normal circumstances the feds would have just turned this over to the local authorities since prostitution is not a federal crime. What is going on in this case that this hasn't happened?

The Mann act idea seems like a stretch. One TV lawyer pundit said that it is not normally applied like this. The Mann act is more associated with a situation where an individual is actively involved in the transport of women across state lines for immoral purposes. Based on the Wikipedia article on the Mann act it looks like its been used to prosecute people the feds don't like like Jack Johnson, a black boxer, who was the first person prosecuted under it for transporting his lover across state lines. It would at least be interesting to see the feds continue in the tradition with a prosecution in this case.

As time goes on without the feds making it clear what the charges are against Spitzer I become more open to the idea that this investigation/prosecution has a political element of it.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Looking at one little piece of the good judgement pie, I suppose you are right.

How long until she's in Playboy?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

It is interesting as this story unfolds, it looks more like the only underlying crime was prostitution. If this is so it would seem that under normal circumstances the feds would have just turned this over to the local authorities since prostitution is not a federal crime. What is going on in this case that this hasn't happened?

I guess one question might be, who's money did he use to pay for her services?

[BPSCG]

As time goes on without the feds making it clear what the charges are against Spitzer I become more open to the idea that this investigation/prosecution has a political element of it.It appears he and his lawyers are discussing plea arrangements, which might be why he hasn't been charged yet. As for what's in it besides the Mann Act (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/12/AR2008031200495.html?hpid=topnews) (which I agree, is silly in this day and age):
Sources familiar with the case said Spitzer remains under investigation for possible violations of the Mann Act, which prohibits interstate travel "for the purpose of prostitution or debauchery" or for other "immoral purposes."
He could also face conspiracy and money-laundering charges, the sources said. A more streamlined case could involve charges that Spitzer structured his payments to the escort service in a way that was designed to evade bank-reporting requirements.

Negotiations between Spitzer and prosecutors are probably complicated by many variables, including his desire to avoid losing his license to practice law, said New York University law professor Stephen Gillers.
My understanding of this is that the whole thing started when he tried "structuring" his payments and the bank reported him; it's not like Karl Rove said, "Let's bring him down," and called the FBI.

[BPSCG]

How long until she's in Playboy?I'm sure the negotiations have already started.

[davefoc]

I guess one question might be, who's money did he use to pay for her services?

At least according to the information from this thread he's friggin rich and a few thou for prostitutes was no big deal.

Which makes this seem even stranger. Lots of rich people all over the country manage to deal in cash for at least some of their transactions, presumably because they'd like to avoid taxes. Whatever the purpose, it isn't that hard. Buy and sell some gold, lose a bit here and there to pay for your prostitutes, no problem. Although it might have been a little tougher for Spitzer, poker represents an excellent opportunity to get some cash into your stash. You just over report losses a bit and voila you're hiding your prostitute reimbursements. Overall if this is just about suspicious handling of insignificant money for a wealthy person Spitzer is an idiot or there is something else we don't understand about this yet.

[dudalb]

The real issue is the hypocrisy of Spitzer. That is what doomed him.

[nemo]

I have just one question... Spitzer swallow? <drum hit> :)

[steve s]

I have just one question... Spitzer swallow? <drum hit> :)

At least give Jon Stewart credit for his joke.

Steve S.

[nemo]

Jon Stewart's not the only one with a sense of humor. Some of us can think for ourselves.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

The babe in question: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/03/13/spitzer.kristen/index.html

:jaw-dropp

Unlike Clinton, at least Spitzer showed some good judgement.

Really? To me, not that she's not pretty, but she looks about like half of the female population of New Jersey. There are more beautiful women on American Idol.

But that's just my opinion.

[Donal]

meh, I'd hit it. Not for 5k, but I wouldn't turn her down if she asked.

[bruto]

I suppose it all depends on perspective and how deep your pockets are. I'm haven't the taste for Mr. Spitzer's pastimes, but if had, and had his money, I suppose $ 5K might not seem such a bad bargain. It's not the price you pay for a moderately attractive Jersey girl who thinks she can sing, but the price you pay for being able to send her home at the end of the weekend.

[WildCat]

Looks like Ms. Dupre won't be getting that $1 million payday after all. It seems that when she turned 18 she went to Miami to celebrate - and ended up making a Girls Gone Wild video (http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20080319/47e09dd0_3421_1334520080319-1200125535) and spending a week on the GGW bus. What did she make for this? A ticket for a bus ride home!

According to a "Girls Gone Wild" press release, Dupre visited Miami in 2003 to celebrate her 18th birthday. After fighting with a friend and getting thrown out of her hotel, Dupre found a nearby "Girls Gone Wild" bus, the company said.
She signed legal papers and spent a full week on the bus, filming seven full-length tapes which included nudity and same-sex encounters, according to the company.
"I personally ended up buying her a Greyhound bus ticket back home to North Carolina," Francis told the AP.
D'oh!

[bruto]

Looks like Ms. Dupre won't be getting that $1 million payday after all. It seems that when she turned 18 she went to Miami to celebrate - and ended up making a Girls Gone Wild video (http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20080319/47e09dd0_3421_1334520080319-1200125535) and spending a week on the GGW bus. What did she make for this? A ticket for a bus ride home!

D'oh!

What a shock.