Does anyone remember...

[Undesired Walrus]

..When a group of film students posted essays on the Loose Change Forum outlining the propagandist impulse inherent in Loose Change 2E?

It was very funny. I remember a quote from Dylan in which he commented something along the lines of 'Mise-en scene? Now I'm glad I didn't go to film school'.

Does anybody know where that is?

[leftysergeant]

Mise-en scene?" That went over my head, too.

[Drudgewire]

...laughter?



LAUGHTER?!!

[AZCat]

mise en scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mise_en_sc%C3%A8ne)

A linky for those who, like me, had no clue.

[dudalb]

Mise En Scene????
Somebody just took Film Appreciation 101 ...

[Minadin]

One here: http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=2987915#post2987915

I seem to recall the post you're referencing and I know that isn't it. Might check ScrewLooseChange blog.

[Hamradioguy]

mise en scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mise_en_sc%C3%A8ne)

A linky for those who, like me, had no clue.

Thanks for that. I always thought it was what folks in Paris said when they saw mice in their river.

[Loss Leader]

mise en scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mise_en_sc%C3%A8ne)

A linky for those who, like me, had no clue.


Between mise en scene and gestalt, it's impossible to determine which one has less meaning.

[AZCat]

Thanks for that. I always thought it was what folks in Paris said when they saw mice in their river.

It took me a good ten seconds to get that. But once I did, very funny! :D

[Elizabeth I]

Between mise en scene and gestalt, it's impossible to determine which one has less meaning.

If you've ever read any Fritz Perls, you'll know the answer to that...

[bje]

mise en scene (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mise_en_sc%C3%A8ne)

A linky for those who, like me, had no clue.

Ah. 9/11 Truth as the savior of post modernism. I should have known.

[WildCat]

The only thing I remember from the one film class I had in college was that we watched The Battleship Potemkin, and it had a scene with soldiers marching up steps with bayonets fixed.

I guess that put me one up on Dylan though!

[cisco]

I can forgive almost anyone for not knowing what mise en scene is. Not everyone is a film geek like me. Dylan Avery, though, self-proclaimed film-buff, and wannabe filmmaker, gets no pass. That is basic, basic stuff that you learn before the instructor even hits 'play' on Citizen Kane You'd think if he was so interested in film he would set aside 6 or 7 seconds to read about it. I guess he studied film as thoroughly as he studied 9/11.

[cisco]

The only thing I remember from the one film class I had in college was that we watched The Battleship Potemkin, and it had a scene with soldiers marching up steps with bayonets fixed.

I guess that put me one up on Dylan though!

The Odessa steps. One of the coolest scenes of the silent-era.

[qarnos]

Is this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=1625&st=0) what you are looking for?

"invented information"? "mis-en-scene"? LIGHTING? you guys are in way over your heads.

and

mise-en-scene?

look man, throwing around fancy film school terms does NOT make you an authority on the matter.

Also there is this article (http://www.slacker-central.com/archives/2007/01/i_win_at_the_internet_1.html) from the student who started the thread.

[Minadin]

Is this (http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=1625&st=0) what you are looking for?



and



Also there is this article (http://www.slacker-central.com/archives/2007/01/i_win_at_the_internet_1.html) from the student who started the thread.

That's it, yes.

[Wildy]

Ah. 9/11 Truth as the savior of post modernism. I should have known.

But that would mean that 9/11 Truth is similar to the Sokal Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_Affair) only that they mean what they are saying.

[bje]

But that would mean that 9/11 Truth is similar to the Sokal Affair (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_Affair) only that they mean what they are saying.


We can take the conspiracy meme and say 9/11 Truth is itself a conspiracy in an attempt to save Post Modernism from the devastation inflicted by Alan Sokal - but proves Sokal's case. The title of Sokal's book on the hoax, "Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals' Abuse of Science", says it all about "9/11 Truth."
:alc:

[gumboot]

The reason for the confusion about the meaning of mise-en-scène is because it has two distinctly different meanings in film and theatre.

In theatre, mise-en-scène refers to a single continuous scene, and everything that exists in that scene - particularly the actual staging of it. This is the smallest component that a play consists of.

In contrast, in cinema the smallest component is a shot, and therefore mise-en-scène refers to "everything in the frame". However due to a misunderstanding between these two slightly different applications of the meaning (mainly as a result of theatre-trained people trying to apply their meaning to film) it has produced the additional meaning of a scene covered in a single shot, rather than a series of shots cut together.

This last definition is, IMHO, completely wrong.

The best way to think of mise-en-scène is as every visible element in the smallest component of either a stage production (a scene) or a film (a shot).

mise-en-scène is not a term that should be applied to a documentary.

[boloboffin]

I only had a foggy understanding of mise-en-scène until the recent release of Ratatouille, where one of the docs talked about the similar phrase mise-en-place. In a kitchen, most of the work is in creating the environment for good food to happen within. From prep work to ingredient organization, a well organized mise-en-place contributes an irreplaceable element to the overall "effect" of a kitchen: the production of high-quality food. A finely organized kitchen is thus like a finely composed shot.

I completely disagree that mise-en-scène should not be applied to a documentary. It can't help but be applied. Choosing one shot over another because it shows more of the participants in an event is applying the principle of mise-en-scène to a documentary. The documentary filmmaker has many ways of communicating his or her message, and this is probably the most powerful. What should be demonstrated is that the mise-en-scène of a documentary is not being used to deceive.

[The_Fire]

And Avery probably wonders why he can't get in to filmschool......:rolleyes:

[Minadin]

The reason for the confusion about the meaning of mise-en-scène is because it has two distinctly different meanings in film and theatre.

In theatre, mise-en-scène refers to a single continuous scene, and everything that exists in that scene - particularly the actual staging of it. This is the smallest component that a play consists of.

In contrast, in cinema the smallest component is a shot, and therefore mise-en-scène refers to "everything in the frame". However due to a misunderstanding between these two slightly different applications of the meaning (mainly as a result of theatre-trained people trying to apply their meaning to film) it has produced the additional meaning of a scene covered in a single shot, rather than a series of shots cut together.

This last definition is, IMHO, completely wrong.

The best way to think of mise-en-scène is as every visible element in the smallest component of either a stage production (a scene) or a film (a shot).

mise-en-scène is not a term that should be applied to a documentary.

Prior to this thread I was under the impression that mise-en-scène were available at the end of the DVD next to the interviews with cast&crew and other special features . . .

[Wildy]

We can take the conspiracy meme and say 9/11 Truth is itself a conspiracy in an attempt to save Post Modernism from the devastation inflicted by Alan Sokal - but proves Sokal's case. The title of Sokal's book on the hoax, "Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals' Abuse of Science", says it all about "9/11 Truth."
:alc:

I don't think the "truthers" would like that but they do have something in common with post-modern thinking. They don't actually say anything at all...

i_l5MJDssGE

[bonavada]

this exchange (between one of the students and avery) just about sums the whole "truth" movement up.....


What have I done? Was a viewing guide and essay not enough for you? You want me to hold your hand through the process? I promise not to use big words like "mise-en-scene" (it's okay, you can use "ad hominem" all you want. How about “reductio ad absurdum”? Or “semper ubi sub ubi”?). I guess I'm not worthy of an opinion unless I cobble together copyrighted material and sell it online for personal gain.




you're almost banned, smart-ass. keep it up


way to go

BV

[fuelair]

Between mise en scene and gestalt, it's impossible to determine which one has less meaning.This is from the dialectical school of film criticism - a school that should be abandoned as it's purpose is to see deep political meaning and interpretational opportunity in films (there are equivalents in other arts, unfortunately). The writing is pathetic, the political beliefs/drift generally Marxist. I do not bring up this field when I teach film/media. except to note it's existence.

[fuelair]

The only thing I remember from the one film class I had in college was that we watched The Battleship Potemkin, and it had a scene with soldiers marching up steps with bayonets fixed.

I guess that put me one up on Dylan though!
Actually, you are supposed to remember the intercutting from the eyes of the mother to the baby carriage (with baby) rolling/bumping down the steps. These are not the fabled steppes of Russia, by the way, these are just large but normal steps where the Czarist troops blow away the supporters of the Potemkin mutineers/revolutionary workers - a bit prior to the revolution which somewhat reversed that procedure.

(i.e. Although the film may be watched for it's political functions, it is more usually studied for it's editing, cuts, etc - the art of it's mechanics and manipulation.)

[gumboot]

I completely disagree that mise-en-scène should not be applied to a documentary. It can't help but be applied. Choosing one shot over another because it shows more of the participants in an event is applying the principle of mise-en-scène to a documentary. The documentary filmmaker has many ways of communicating his or her message, and this is probably the most powerful. What should be demonstrated is that the mise-en-scène of a documentary is not being used to deceive.


This is a much broader, and (I think) incorrect application of mise-en-scène - that is a general vague catch-all phrase for film style. I would consider "choosing one shot over another" to be editing, not mise-en-scène. mise-en-scène is specifically what appears in the shot that appears in the film thus any shot not appearing in the film cannot, by definition, relate to mise-en-scène.

I don't think it's helpful to use this particular application of mise-en-scène because that interpretation is already covered - it's called filmmaking. Mise-en-scène is only one element of filmmaking, not the entire thing.

[gumboot]

Actually, you are supposed to remember the intercutting from the eyes of the mother to the baby carriage (with baby) rolling/bumping down the steps. These are not the fabled steppes of Russia, by the way, these are just large but normal steps where the Czarist troops blow away the supporters of the Potemkin mutineers/revolutionary workers - a bit prior to the revolution which somewhat reversed that procedure.

(i.e. Although the film may be watched for it's political functions, it is more usually studied for it's editing, cuts, etc - the art of it's mechanics and manipulation.)


I'm not sure I would call the Odessa Steps "large but normal", they're quite significant for a number of reasons - one of which is the optical illusions built into their design.

[fuelair]

I'm not sure I would call the Odessa Steps "large but normal", they're quite significant for a number of reasons - one of which is the optical illusions built into their design.
True, however I am almost always on the lookout for puns (steppes/steps in this case). As I like to tell my students "they pay me for this stuff!!":)

[HawksFan]

...walkin' in the sand? (Remember) Walkin' hand in hand.
(Remember) the night was so exciting....
(Remember) her lips were so inviting...
(Remember) then she touched my cheek...
(remember) with her fingertips...
(Remember) softly, softly we met with a kiss...

(Sorry, that song just popped in my head when I saw the title to this thread)