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View Full Version : The Internal Politics of Muslim Extremists in Australia


a_unique_person
30th September 2003, 05:14 PM
I read this article today, and found it very interesting.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/09/30/1064819927213.html



Secret Australian cells of terrorist network Jemaah Islamiah raised money to develop the group in the decade before the Bali bombings, according to terrorism expert Rohan Gunaratna.

But lax laws allowed cell leaders to escape after the attacks, he told the National Press Club yesterday.

Dr Gunaratna, author of Inside Al Qaeda, said JI's leadership in Malaysia had wanted to conduct attacks on Australian soil, but some cell members had refused.

He also said a second phase of terrorist attacks by radical Islamic groups had begun and South-East Asia was now the world's biggest terrorist centre.

Dr Gunaratna said JI established its Australian network in the early 1990s during 11 visits by its leader, Abu Bakar Bashir.

"In many ways Australia was their bank," he said. "They have raised significant funds in Australia. They established their cells initially in Melbourne, later on in Sydney and Perth." They had up to 100 members in Australia.

An associate of the group had confessed that the Australian network was raising $200,000 a year for JI.

"The Australian cells of JI were not keen to do terrorist acts because they had families, property, reasonably good jobs," Dr Gunaratna said.

"The JI cells in Malaysia were very keen to do attacks in Australia.

"The attack plans were called off because of disagreements between the JI cells in Australia with the JI cells in Malaysia, otherwise there would have been mass attacks in Australia."

Dr Gunaratna said the dispute within JI surfaced at Sydney's Dee Why mosque, resulting in an assault on its imam by JI's Australian leader, Rahman Ayub. JI was attempting to take over the mosque, he said.



1) Material wealth helps prevent terrorism, that is, those who lived in Australia did not want to disrupt their successful lives by getting their hands dirty.
2) Not all Muslims want to back terrorism, and there has been dissension between Muslims over backing terrorism.
3) Muslims in wealthier countries are funding those doing the actual dirty work in poorer countries.
4) Restrictions on civil liberties are needed to fight terrorism.

In regard to point (3), this is also an accusation pointed at Americans funding terrorism in Ireland and Jews funding 'settlers' and extremists in Israel.

bangdazap
30th September 2003, 05:25 PM
So the solution to ending terrorism in SE Asia is clear: clusterbomb Australia!

Skeptic
30th September 2003, 06:01 PM
Gee, AUP, I'm confused. A few weeks back you claimed the "real reason" for increased islamic terrorism in Australia is, of course, the jews--or, as you put it, israel "stirring up the muslim world".

Now you post an article about these terrorists, Ja'maa't al-Islamia (JI), which doesn't even mention israel, let alone claim it is "really" its fault that they hate the australians. Does that mean you now claim it isn't the jews' fault, after all?

In regard to point (3), this is also an accusation pointed at Americans funding terrorism in Ireland and Jews funding 'settlers' and extremists in Israel.

Well, naturalisch; it wouldn't be a post from you without blaming the jews and/or americans for something, would it?

(Sigh...........)

Actually, AUP, this post of yours shows, not so much rabid hatered of jews and americans, but--once more--the fact that you just cannot face the fact that some people--like JI--are evil.

Originally when their plots to kill Australians by the gross were exposed, your denial took the form of claiming that their actions were "really" the jews' fault, a "normal" reaction to the evil israel's nefarious actions--and, therefore, that JI is not really evil.

Now that it became clear that JI has nothing to do with israel at all, you must claim some "moral equivelancy" beteen israel, the USA, and JI's actions--a totally absurd accusation, but one that allows you to pretend that, while JI is evil, it is at least not more evil than the nefarious jews and Americans.

Wrong on both counts, AUP. They want you dead. They want you dead because you are not a muslim, not because of israel. And, finally, they are much, much more evil than israel and/or the USA, no matter how much you want to deny it.

a_unique_person
30th September 2003, 06:09 PM
Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was referring to something that Cleopatra has also mentioned, (IIRC), the phenomenon of outsiders stirring up a conflict by contributing money and support. That is, these Muslims were not prepared to do any of the dirty work themselves, such as planting bombs in their own country, but were prepared to send money overseas so that bombs could be blown up in those countries. I am sure this has happened in other cases too. For example, Tamil residents in Australia funding the Tamil Tigers in Sri Lanka in a very bloody war that has featured much more suicide attacks and actual children being involved in such attacks.

Chaos
1st October 2003, 02:07 AM
Skeptic, can you please keep that "good vs. evil" stuff out of this thread? AUP was talking facts here, not morality. And doing a good job of it, in my opinion.

The Fool
1st October 2003, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by Skeptic



Actually, AUP, this post of yours shows, not so much rabid hatered of jews and americans, but--once more--the fact that you just cannot face the fact that some people--like JI--are evil.



Damn you must be one perceptive guy "Skeptic" I bet you could tell if someone was evil just from looking at a photo.... Maybe security services could employ you as an "evil sniffer" at airports...after all, the dogs are only trained for drugs and explosives.

Mike B.
1st October 2003, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by The Fool


Damn you must be one perceptive guy "Skeptic" I bet you could tell if someone was evil just from looking at a photo.... Maybe security services could employ you as an "evil sniffer" at airports...after all, the dogs are only trained for drugs and explosives.



If this is the attitude we might as well throw the ideas of the Enlightenment out the window.

If we can't say that people that want to kill others for not believing in their particular imaginary man in the sky is not evil, then what is?

a_unique_person
1st October 2003, 06:02 PM
I was more interested in what made them not want to blow up a bomb. Give someone something to value in this life, he is less likely to gamble it away on the possibility of something in the next. Also the fact that there was disagreement with the Muslim community itself on funding terrorism. Strangely enough, not all Muslims want to kill the infidels.

reprise
1st October 2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by a_unique_person
I was more interested in what made them not want to blow up a bomb. Give someone something to value in this life, he is less likely to gamble it away on the possibility of something in the next. Also the fact that there was disagreement with the Muslim community itself on funding terrorism. Strangely enough, not all Muslims want to kill the infidels.

Do you think that the fact that Muslims are free to practise their faith here (idiots like Fred Nile notwithstanding) might be a factor? Australia doesn't present people with an either/or choice. People are free to participate in and enjoy the benefits of Australian society while still maintaining their faith.

The Fool
1st October 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Mike B.


If this is the attitude we might as well throw the ideas of the Enlightenment out the window.

If we can't say that people that want to kill others for not believing in their particular imaginary man in the sky is not evil, then what is?
so what is the attitude you talk of? I don't have any problem with you, "Skeptic" or anyone else saying anything about murderers and zealots of any religion. What I do have a problem with is branding whole societies due to the actions of these extremists. Have a good long look at exactly who "skeptic" blames for everything. Arabs, all Arabs....Muslims, all muslims. In his world they are all genocidal bloodthirsty maniacs, all of them. That is Bogotry, that can't be ignored.

a_unique_person
1st October 2003, 06:22 PM
Originally posted by reprise


Do you think that the fact that Muslims are free to practise their faith here (idiots like Fred Nile notwithstanding) might be a factor? Australia doesn't present people with an either/or choice. People are free to participate in and enjoy the benefits of Australian society while still maintaining their faith.

IMHO, Australia's tolerance, freedom and openness does provide a postive force for good. I have already related the anecdote about the time when the factory I was working at had Greeks and Turks working in it, as well has people from many other national backgrounds. When Turkey invaded Cyprus, there was a lot of work put into keeping the two groups apart and making sure they understood that, whatever problems there might be overseas, they were not to be replicated here.