2012! We Are All Gonna Die...Take 1.

[dudalb]

Found this on IMDB,a movie site,when discussing Roland Emmerich's next piece of crap film, which concerns the end of the world in 2012 because of the Mayan Calender prediction.

End of the world? It very well could be. The Mayan people were very advanced mathmaticians from what little of their culture we understand. There have been many things throughout history that even now elude a true and difinitive understanding. The Great Pyramids, one of the largest and most spectacular man-made structures ever built yet absolutely nothing is known of them. As extensive, complex, time consuming, and as larborous as their construction should've been, there is absolutely no record of them in all known Egyptian history. We wouldn't even have known they existed if they didn't endure thousands of years. Stone Henge is another one, and the heads of Easter Island is another.

What is understood about the Mayans is that they were very comprehensive astronomers who did in fact predict every solar eclipse up to 2012, to nearly the very minute. In fact their calculations were only 30 seconds off from being completely accurate to this very day.

Any number of things could happen, but most likely I believe it to be something systematic either within our universe/galaxy, or world. There are several natural disasters just waiting to happen - several overdue. You've got the Madrid Fault in Tenesee, the supervolcano in Yellowstone, the San Andreas Fault is due as well. You've also got events happening in the universe. I understand that there is a very rare galatic alignment that can only be witnessed every 26 thousand years, who knows what effects this could cause. At this very second there are thousands and thousands of meteoroids in orbit within our solar system, some of which are considered Near Earth Objects and many of the NEO's are considered unaccounted for and unrecognized. History shows that we're overdue for a significant meteor impact. In 2012, there will officially be more than 7 BILLION people roaming the earth. Research has shown that already we're consuming 3 times as much as the earth can keep up with and produce. Eventually we're going to run out resources, sooner rather than later. You've got a very real global warming threat. It doesn't take much alter the usual courses of nature. In 2004, Florida was ravaged by 3 major hurricanes, the most devestation they've ever witnessed. In 2006 another wayward hurricane season floods New Orleans. Just weeks ago tornadic activity jumped from the average 26 to 92 during the Winter season. This is just the beginning. Who knows what we'll face in 4 years.

There is a lot to consider... and I believe something is going to happen.

This is a fine example of Woo Reasoning at it's best.
A. Blind Faith in a questionable source of info.
B. Total ignorance of science (yes, the Mayans where amazing Mathmeticians,they did make some impressive predictions of Eclipises,but there is NO PROOF WHATSOEVER they could predict the future)
C.Avoid facts that damage your woo (that almost all experts on Mayan Civilization say the Mayan Calender "End Of The World Prediction" is a bunch of crap,that is not what the texts say)
and D. as the last sentence shows..consider your own belief to be overpowering evidence.
And this is one of the more sane Mayan Woo Peddlers. You ought to see what the real wackjobs are saying.
And there will be a huge flood of crap like this as 2012 draws closer. Several movies are in the works aside from the Emmerich film . It's gonna be the Millinial nonsense all over again.
So get ready for a flood of Woo.I suspect before this is over this might rate it own subdivision on this page.

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

I hate it when someone starts on 2012 and, when you tell them what nonsense you think it is, they counter with "Ah, but the Mayan calender was really accurate! And they were really brilliant scientists!" or "No, you don't understand, they were really great astronomers and their calender was super advanced and we've now found that it's really accurate."

I want to shout "Yes, and we still haven't invented the wheel! And we still use bark and ink to count because we haven't mastered paper and the pen!"

Even if the Mayans had predicted the end of the world, why do people think that brilliant= timeless, infallible and impossible to improve upon? Why do they think we couldn't have improved science since the 16th century?

[MG1962]

Time Traveller.... "OMG You Mayans are amazing you predicted the exact second the Earth would cross the galaxy's plane"

Mayan Astronomer.... "Whats a galaxy"

Time traveller "Well it is where we live, lots of stars orbiting around a central point

Mayan Astronomer.... "Whats a star....and whats an orbit?"

The rest sort of writes itself

[Lensman]

At least I won't have to worry about poverty in my old age - 'cos I won't have one. ;) :D

[becomingagodo]

Time Traveller.... "OMG You Mayans are amazing you predicted the exact second the Earth would cross the galaxy's plane"

Mayan Astronomer.... "Whats a galaxy"

Time traveller "Well it is where we live, lots of stars orbiting around a central point

Mayan Astronomer.... "Whats a star....and whats an orbit?"

The rest sort of writes itself

Time Traveller... so you predicted that something bad was going to happen in 2012, and it did. How did you do that?

Mayan Astronomer... changes the calender so the end is 2012.

So now we know.

[Cuddles]

Of course, the biggest problem with all of this is that the Mayan calendar doesn't end in 2012. It doesn't end ever. Questions about the Mayans being clever or predicting the future are irrelevant because neither they or their calendar actually predicted anything would happen in 2012 anyway. 2012 is just when the most common notation used for their date runs out. They didn't think the world would end any more than we think the world will end in the year 9999. All we have to do is use 5 digits to write the date. The Mayan situation is identical, and we know that they knew this since there are examples of them using a longer notation.

Edit: See this post (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3426858&postcount=52).

[MG1962]

Time Traveller... so you predicted that something bad was going to happen in 2012, and it did. How did you do that?

Mayan Astronomer... changes the calender so the end is 2012.

So now we know.

Many years ago there was a cartoon called Stanley the Caveman. he is standing at the top of a cliff three huge boulders. He levers two of them off the cliff leaving one behind. Then turns to the reader and says "In 10,000 years it is going to drive someone batty how I got this boulder up here"

[SusanB-M1]

One of the most maddening things is that if something huge happens, then the non-sceptics will say, 'Told you so! The Mayans were right.' And if nothing happens, then they will have innumerable excuses and reasons why there was a mistake in the calculations and dozens of books will be written about it. The fact that there might or might not be a coincidental event will be extremely difficult for sceptics to win the argument on. However, ever optimistic, I am hoping that there will be sceptics who will make sure they are heard. I shall be doing my best anyway!

[dudalb]

Of course, the biggest problem with all of this is that the Mayan calendar doesn't end in 2012. It doesn't end ever. Questions about the Mayans being clever or predicting the future are irrelevant because neither they or their calendar actually predicted anything would happen in 2012 anyway. 2012 is just when the most common notation used for their date runs out. They didn't think the world would end any more than we think the world will end in the year 9999. All we have to do is use 5 digits to write the date. The Mayan situation is identical, and we know that they knew this since there are examples of them using a longer notation.

Edit: See this post (http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3426858&postcount=52).

Exactly. Every legit expert on Mayan Civilization has labled the 2012 theory a bunch of crap.
But that does not stop the Woo Merchants and the New Agers from going into hysteria over it.
The real start of this crap was "The Celestine Prophecy" as crappy a book from ANY point of view that you could want.

[MoonDragn]

Exactly. Every legit expert on Mayan Civilization has labled the 2012 theory a bunch of crap.
But that does not stop the Woo Merchants and the New Agers from going into hysteria over it.
The real start of this crap was "The Celestine Prophecy" as crappy a book from ANY point of view that you could want.

You left out all the Christians on the 700 channel who believe the apocalypse is upon us cause all of the signs mentioned in the bible are happening blah blah.

Don't stereotype groups if you're not going to include all of them.

[dudalb]

You left out all the Christians on the 700 channel who believe the apocalypse is upon us cause all of the signs mentioned in the bible are happening blah blah.

Don't stereotype groups if you're not going to include all of them.

The Christian Fundies are not getting nearly the press and buzz that the Mayan crap is getting. The Book of Revealations stuff is old news. The Mayan stuff is new .

[Exoth Xi]

Wait a minute... we can predict eclipses to the very hour and minute, but the mayans could only get the day... what if our calendar is more accurate? Holy crap! Our calendar ends on December 31st 2008! The world is coming to an end in one year! Repent!

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

Here's my question about it. Why are people so intent on predicting the end of the world? Why are they so passionate in arguing to the contrary when you try to tell them the good news the world won't end in 2012? Why do people like to think all life will soon be destroyed?

I don't know about you but I kinda like being alive. I kinda like planet Earth, too. Seems like a nice place to raise some kids.

[ugot2bekidding]

Here's my question about it. Why are people so intent on predicting the end of the world? Why are they so passionate in arguing to the contrary when you try to tell them the good news the world won't end in 2012? Why do people like to think all life will soon be destroyed?


It makes their pathetic existence more interesting, I suppose. For some it's an oppurtunity to peddle more woo.."end of days comming...buy my book/religion/belief system and be prepared!"

[ksbluesfan]

Why can't we just ask the Mayans what their calendar means? Are they too busy making plans for the end of the world?

:confused:

[Mark A. Siefert]

I'm curious if any of the Bible-beaters have tried to cash in on 2012 BS like and proclaim that the Rapture will happen on the same date. Of course, how a bunch of "heathens" would have any insight into Western theology is beyond me, but that hasn't stopped the fundys from incorporating non-Christian woo into their own. (e.g. UFOs are vessels for demons. Psychic powers and magic are real, BUT are due to Satanic influence, etc.)

[Red McWilliams]

Of course Roland Emmerich is gonna spout this stuff, it puts more butts in the movie theater. I'm sure Discovery Channel and History Channel are going to sell a bunch of ad time during their shows about the end of the world.

Of course if any of these people actually believed this crap, they'd cash out their 401k's, sell their homes, live it up for 4 years and then move to the mountains.

If the 700 club is so sure that the end is just around the corner, I'm sure Pat Robertson won't mind sending a couple million dollars my way.

[EHocking]

Wait a minute... we can predict eclipses to the very hour and minute, but the mayans could only get the day... what if our calendar is more accurate? Holy crap! Our calendar ends on December 31st 2008! The world is coming to an end in one year! Repent!I'm leaving my repenting and panicking for 2029 or 2036 (http://space.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=space&cdn=education&tm=5&gps=313_584_1268_612&f=00&su=p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=1&zu=http%3A//neo.jpl.nasa.gov/).

[Brattus]

2012? Really? Crap that's the year I finally pay off my mortgage.
Story of my life! I tell ya! Story of my life.

[Tumblehome]

You left out all the Christians on the 700 channel who believe the apocalypse is upon us cause all of the signs mentioned in the bible are happening blah blah.

Don't stereotype groups if you're not going to include all of them.


The Christians will just have to get in line and wait their turn. First, the world ends because of the Mayan calendar; then the apocalypse.

[Pato2747]

Y2K? No.
6/6/6? No.
2012? No.

The whole 2012 business has been deemed by experts as silly and untrue. And it is. The gregorian calendar doesn't "end" on December 31st, 2008. It will just reset to Year 2009. Same goes with the Mayan Calendar. It doesn't "end". It RESETS.

[JEROME DA GNOME]

Even if the Mayans had predicted the end of the world, why do people think that brilliant= timeless, infallible and impossible to improve upon? Why do they think we couldn't have improved science since the 16th century?

The Mayans did not predict the end of the world, they predicted the end of the calender which they created.

[Cuddles]

The Mayans did not predict the end of the world, they predicted the end of the calender which they created.

No they didn't. Did you even bother reading the thread?

[G-K-4]

The real start of this crap was "The Celestine Prophecy" as crappy a book from ANY point of view that you could want.

Actually, I think this goes farther back than that.

Terence McKenna used 2012 as the end-date for his "Timewave Zero" notion. That was published in 1989/1991 (http://deoxy.org/t_twzrev.htm). And he was talking about that in Mondo 2000 and bOING bOING before 1993. See here (http://deoxy.org/t_sunami.htm), for an example from 1992. (The Celestine Prophecy was published in 1993.)

I also remember in 1987 having a co-worker go on about the "Harmonic Convergence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence)". I even heard about it in the news, all these New Agers trying to meditate in important spots around the world.

Some of them said that this was the beginning of a 25-year period where the human race had to get its act together or face the consequences. And guess what 1987+25 gets you....

Oh, yeah, 1987. I had a job where I worked alongside a New Age neo-hippy and an evangelical Christian. "Good times" as the kids say today. :rolleyes:

[G-K-4]

I'm leaving my repenting and panicking for 2029 or 2036 (http://space.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=space&cdn=education&tm=5&gps=313_584_1268_612&f=00&su=p504.1.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=1&zu=http%3A//neo.jpl.nasa.gov/).

Hmmm, thanks for the link.

2029 will be assumed (by some) as the 2,000th anniversary of the "Resurrection". (That whole the-calendar-is-four-years-off thing.) It will be interesting to see how the Christians spin this event or non-event.

[Bikewer]

I love the comments about the pyramids. Possibly the most-studied structures on Earth, Egyptologists have tons of factual information and Egyptian records as to the work force, consumption of resources, etc.

[Sefarst]

Obviously the aliens/Atlantans/angels told the Maya. Next time you meet one of these 2012 nutcases, get them to sign a legal contract giving you everything they own on January 1, 2013.

[rjh01]

This is all nonsense. I have the proof. I have just used by calender in outlook. I went to the year 3333, so the world will not end until at least then as Microsoft Outlook is so good.

[MG1962]

Hmmm, thanks for the link.

2029 will be assumed (by some) as the 2,000th anniversary of the "Resurrection". (That whole the-calendar-is-four-years-off thing.) It will be interesting to see how the Christians spin this event or non-event.

I read a book a few years ago called 1000AD and they talked about this. The calender etc was still a concept for many in Britian when the millenia ticked over - however most were aware when the year 1033 was, and the amount of church building and predictive sermons reached a fever pitch till Easter 1033 passed without incident

[ShowerComic]

Hmm:
End of the world: as of today - http://www.religioustolerance.org/endwrl14.htm
Has this:
"
End-of-the-world prophecies

22 predictions to occur between 2007 & 2010

"2007: None of the following happened: ...."

2008 - God's Final Witness
- get your copy today -- http://www.the-end.com/
http://www.religioustolerance.org/_themes/topo/topruled.gif

[G-K-4]

I read a book a few years ago called 1000AD and they talked about this. The calender etc was still a concept for many in Britian when the millenia ticked over - however most were aware when the year 1033 was, and the amount of church building and predictive sermons reached a fever pitch till Easter 1033 passed without incident

I expect that we'll see more excitement in 2033, too. Especially after 2029 is a bust. And maybe then things will quiet down for a while. (Here's hoping, but I won't hold my breath.)

The nice thing about 2012 is that it's really close. We can start calming people down now, and don't have to wait long to look good.

[ksbluesfan]

My world isn't going to end until 2100. I'll be 135 then. Well, that's my hope anyway.

[EHocking]

My world isn't going to end until 2100. I'll be 135 then. Well, that's my hope anyway.I'm hoping that by the time I reach 135 there will be medical breakthroughs that will help me live until I'm 135.

[Exoth Xi]

I'm leaving my repenting and panicking for 2029 or 2036.

You do that. I'll get laid.
If the world ends, we both die, and I got laid one last time.
If the world doesn't end, we both live, and, though people laugh at those who panicked, I still got laid.

Regardless, I'm not concerned about the first pass; it's pretty likely the asteroid will miss. The second pass won't be sure until 2013, and I'm pretty sure 15 years will be sufficient to come up with a countermeasure, if the asteroid is aimed at us.

[dudalb]

Actually, I think this goes farther back than that.

Terence McKenna used 2012 as the end-date for his "Timewave Zero" notion. That was published in 1989/1991 (http://deoxy.org/t_twzrev.htm). And he was talking about that in Mondo 2000 and bOING bOING before 1993. See here (http://deoxy.org/t_sunami.htm), for an example from 1992. (The Celestine Prophecy was published in 1993.)

I also remember in 1987 having a co-worker go on about the "Harmonic Convergence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harmonic_Convergence)". I even heard about it in the news, all these New Agers trying to meditate in important spots around the world.

Some of them said that this was the beginning of a 25-year period where the human race had to get its act together or face the consequences. And guess what 1987+25 gets you....

Oh, yeah, 1987. I had a job where I worked alongside a New Age neo-hippy and an evangelical Christian. "Good times" as the kids say today. :rolleyes:

You are probably right, but I think that the success of "The Celstine Prophecy" is what launched the 2012 nonsense into the Woo Bigtime.

[EHocking]

Originally Posted by EHocking http://forums.randi.org/helloworld2/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=3520827#post3520827)
I'm leaving my repenting and panicking for 2029 or 2036.
You do that. I'll get laid.
If the world ends, we both die, and I got laid one last time.
If the world doesn't end, we both live, and, though people laugh at those who panicked, I still got laid.What, only twice in 28 years?
I may be no oil painting, but I reckon I can manage a higher frequency than that, and *I'm* married.:jaw-dropp

[Graham2001]

It's not just New Agers that peddle this. I've seen a Moon Hoax article whose author's 'name' was "Tranceformation2012@<email provider>"

[Iamme]

If the 700 club is so sure that the end is just around the corner, I'm sure Pat Robertson won't mind sending a couple million dollars my way.

I like this. Maybe you could e-mail him and see what kind of answer you get, either back thru e-mail or read on the air.

[OneShotKi11]

The year 2012 is the year of the big "solstice/galactic center alignment".

Some say that the earth might have a polar shift which could have drastic effects on our planet.

Lots to be read about this subject and some of it is actually interesting. Not that i believe it will be the end of the world or the the Mayans were able to predict anything, but some things would probably prove to the liking of the JREF readers.

[The Don]

....Some say that the earth might have a polar shift which could have drastic effects on our planet......
Though the previous reversals of the Earth's magnetic field appear not to have had a drastic effect.

Who are these people ?

[to.by]

Has anyone thought of the fact that our calendar stops dec. 31st. And it does so every year.

[OneShotKi11]

Though the previous reversals of the Earth's magnetic field appear not to have had a drastic effect.

Who are these people ?

YOu can prove there were no changes?

I assume if there are it would be severe weather changes, but ofcourse thats just my assumption.

[Notrump]

I predict that Russell’s Teapot ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot ) will land at Yellowstone Park on 2011 SEP 23. A genie will emerge from its spout and command that the entire park explode in a stupendous volcanic eruption. Millions will be killed. Since no one has proven me wrong, it must be true.