hedging your bets with religion

[HarryKeogh]

so my friend is getting his baby baptised. pretty much to hedge his bets. he readily admits he hasnt gone to church since his wedding last year but just in case there is any truth that an un-christened baby will go to hell or purgatory or whatever he's getting it done.

isn't it great that God is so willing to accept these half-ass, insincere efforts from his worhippers!!!

if you dont go to church and follow the other tenets of your religion youre not a non-practicing catholic or whatever. you have no idea what it encompasses to belong to a religion.

why are people so afraid to admit they don't buy into their religion instead of clinging on to it so half-heartedly for their entire lives?

i have friends who love to question (or smirk at )my atheism yet put in just as much effort as myself worshipping God. zero. but just in case there are indeed pearly gates leading to heaven they can stand there and say "well, i sort of believed in you"

[sorgoth]

I know...it's the half-assed believers that piss me off more than people who have actually done research and arrived at a decision. I think it's wrong, but at least they thought about it!

[whitefork]

Baptised, circumsized, both, neither?

Does anyone who believes in heaven and hell truly believe that both are necessary to get into heaven and the absense of one will send you to hell?

Probably.

If I'd been forced to make a choice I would have chosen baptism over circumcision. As it is, I got both, and according to many people I'm going to hell anyway.

Life's like that.

[bjornart]

Originally posted by Kullervo
Baptised, circumsized, both, neither?

Does anyone who believes in heaven and hell truly believe that both are necessary to get into heaven and the absense of one will send you to hell?

Probably.

If I'd been forced to make a choice I would have chosen baptism over circumcision. As it is, I got both, and according to many people I'm going to hell anyway.

Life's like that.

Well the New Testament doesn't say you should be circumcised, in fact it says you shouldn't be, and that if you let yourself be circumcised you have to follow the whole OT law:

Galatians 5
1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

If I wasn't the rabid atheist I am, I can see that I'd want to baptize my children just in case. Not in case babies go to hell, because I can't see myself as ever believing that, but in case the child grew up and found god. I wouldn't want to say, nah, we didn't baptize you, and I think you're a loon. But as I said, that'd be a different me. :D

[Marc]

You want to talk about hedging bets? In a funny sci-fi comic by Phil Foglio there was a religion that accepts every single other religion in the universe as truth, and they celebrate a different one each day. Ok, so their year is several thousand days long because of that.

Actually it was a kind of setup for the story as it pointed out a central figure in over half the religions was the Winslow, which makes an appearence in the story bringing all kinds of chaos.

[triadboy]

There is a Shinto religion that claims if you just speak a few specific words on your deathbed your soul will be saved.

I think there is a perception among xians, that if you just believe in god. He will take that into account when He judges you.

You might not get the heavenly palace to live in, but you'll have a nice trailer down by the lake.

[Duncan]

Yep, I as well, feel that baptism is utterly pointless and an idiotic tradition. Personally, most of what the catholic church does and believes, I find idiotic, which is why it was extremely difficult for me to become my niece's godfather. My sister and my mother are both religious. They both know I'm an athiest, but my sister asked me to be the godfather anyway. I told her I didn't believe in God and actually detest organized religion (most of them). She understood, but asked if I would anyway. Now I would do anything for my family, and my niece is so cute, so I agreed. During the ceremony, the priest asked both myself and the godmother questions such as "Do you believe Jesus died for our sins and blah blah blah" and a bunch of other questions I would normally say "No, I don't believe that horsesh**" But I said yes to them all because I didn't want to cause a scene and ruin my niece's baptism. Afterwards I felt angry, like I was forced into saying things I did not believe. And I was. Anyway, now I just look at it like I was acting, and I don't really care anymore. But I was just wondering if any of you have gone through this and felt a little peeved afterwards?

[rustypouch]

If you are concerned about such things, you could always join the God of the month club.

http://community-2.webtv.net/magentashadow/GOMC/

[CWL]

Originally posted by Kullervo
If I'd been forced to make a choice I would have chosen baptism over circumcision. As it is, I got both, and according to many people I'm going to hell anyway.

Life's like that.

:D

Now that's a true philosopher speaking.

BTW, what's up with you Americans circumsising every man-child in sight? Is having foreskin unconstitutional or something?

[whitefork]

Originally posted by bjornart


Well the New Testament doesn't say you should be circumcised, in fact it says you shouldn't be, and that if you let yourself be circumcised you have to follow the whole OT law: :D
Let myself be circumcized? I don't recall having given an opinion one way or the other on that. Maybe "Waaaaaaaaaah!" but I was very young at the time.

Funkmeister - There's been a lot of discussion about circumcision in the Politics section, but my favorite explanation is that Messers Kellogg (the cereal man) and Graham (the cracker guy) thought that it would reduce or eliminate masturbation in boys and men. I offer myself as a counterexample. (Many references on the web, most of them blocked by the firewall here at work. True or not, it makes a much sense as anything else - that is none at all).

Americans - so bombarded with sex and so uncomfortable with it. I think that trip to Sweden may be necessary soon.

[Dr. Imago]

Pascal's wager (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)

[CWL]

My funky friend,

Originally posted by Kullervo
Funkmeister - There's been a lot of discussion about circumcision in the Politics section, but my favorite explanation is that Messers Kellogg (the cereal man) and Graham (the cracker guy) thought that it would reduce or eliminate masturbation in boys and men.

Makes as much sense as any other idiotic reason for arbitrarly snipping off parts of other people's bodies.

I offer myself as a counterexample. (Many references on the web, most of them blocked by the firewall here at work. True or not, it makes a much sense as anything else - that is none at all).

You can always comfort yourself with the fact that any act of auto eroticism on your part is all for a good cause - proving Messrs. Kellogg and Graham dead wrong.

Thus, keep up the good work!

Americans - so bombarded with sex and so uncomfortable with it. I think that trip to Sweden may be necessary soon.

I'm not sure we're more (or less) promiscuous than you guys, but we sure as heck don't think that sex is such a big deal (meaning such a taboo and hush-hush activity - not saying it isn't an important and/or pleasant activity) as appears to be commonly believed on the other side of the Pond.

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by Duncan
Yep, I as well, feel that baptism is utterly pointless and an idiotic tradition. Personally, most of what the catholic church does and believes, I find idiotic, which is why it was extremely difficult for me to become my niece's godfather. My sister and my mother are both religious. They both know I'm an athiest, but my sister asked me to be the godfather anyway. I told her I didn't believe in God and actually detest organized religion (most of them). She understood, but asked if I would anyway. Now I would do anything for my family, and my niece is so cute, so I agreed. During the ceremony, the priest asked both myself and the godmother questions such as "Do you believe Jesus died for our sins and blah blah blah" and a bunch of other questions I would normally say "No, I don't believe that horsesh**" But I said yes to them all because I didn't want to cause a scene and ruin my niece's baptism. Afterwards I felt angry, like I was forced into saying things I did not believe. And I was. Anyway, now I just look at it like I was acting, and I don't really care anymore. But I was just wondering if any of you have gone through this and felt a little peeved afterwards?

i'm godfather to my cousin's daughter. they knew i was an atheist but they also knew i would respect the way they wanted to raise their daughter. and indeed if anything happened to them i would raise their child as a catholic. i was honored that they asked me.

i found the ceremony interesting and kept pretending i was michael corleone.

[Professor Frink]

I think there is something inside many people who "grew up" in a church that stays with them that g/God is real and believing otherwise is wrong, as well as what other specific things the church or family taught.

In my head I don't believe in the whole religion deal, I don't go to church and will only go with my parents occasionally to appease them. But I have to admit that deep inside I still have this part that refuses to not believe in God, because belief was so ingrained from such an early age. It's almost like remembering where you grew up or remembering a great birthday party. It's just with you and in your head and it will always be there. Guess they got me good. Me and a lot of other people.

Someone asked me if I believe in God and I said "Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't."

Frink

[CWL]

Originally posted by HarryKeogh


i'm godfather to my cousin's daughter. they knew i was an atheist but they also knew i would respect the way they wanted to raise their daughter. and indeed if anything happened to them i would raise their child as a catholic. i was honored that they asked me.


I too am an atheist and I too was recently granted the honor of becoming godfather to the son of my closest friend (who is not particularly christian I should add).

I think the idea of having people besides the parents who make a commitment to be concerned with the welfare of, and act as moral support to, a child is nothing short of great. God (or the lack of belief therein) has nothing to do with it.

[Michael Redman]

If you think God prohibits gambling, is it wise to hedge your bets?

[CWL]

Originally posted by Michael Redman
If you think God prohibits gambling, is it wise to hedge your bets?

I am personally of the opinion that God does not play dice.

Fictional characters do not play anything...

[whitefork]

I don't know if God prohibits gambling, but Purim is the feast of lots. As in lottery. also the source of the phrase "the whole megillah".

[Marquis de Carabas]

God doesn't seem to be in favour of bet-hedging anyway. It seems he'd prefer an atheist to a half-ass anyday.

Revelation 3:15-16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

(edited to add second verse)

[HarryKeogh]

Originally posted by Kullervo
I don't know if God prohibits gambling, but Purim is the feast of lots. As in lottery. also the source of the phrase "the whole megillah".

i thought that phrase came from the cartoon

how much is that monkey in the window?

quick, who can name the pet store owner first?

[espritch]

But I have to admit that deep inside I still have this part that refuses to not believe in God, because belief was so ingrained from such an early age.

I know how you feel. I gave up on Christianity many years ago but there are still times (usually late at night) when I wonder if I'm wronge. It can be difficult to shake a belief that was drilled into you from the time you were a small child. It doesn't help that agnosticism/atheism doesn't have much comfort to offer at those times when you find yourself contemplating mortality.

[c4ts]

Here's my bet: The fundies are wrong.

Wait, that's not a bet, that's a statement of fact.

[UnrepentantSinner]

Originally posted by CWL
BTW, what's up with you Americans circumsising every man-child in sight? Is having foreskin unconstitutional or something?

I discovered why I've got a crew neck when I looked at my birth certificate... Jewish obstetritian.

[Some Friggin Guy]

quick, who can name the pet store owner first?

Mr Peebles.

[evildave]

I think he should sacrifice an animal at a stone altar with a flint knife, just to cover some more bases.

After all, you wouldn't want to upset any Central American gods, and the God of the Bible lusted for good and proper blood to be spilled for special occasions.

Better do a chicken and sprinkle its blood around for the Vodou gods.

Can't neglect the other gods, once you get started. Right down to Bot, the parking spot god, who you have to spill drinks as an offering to in order to get good parking.

[CWL]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
God doesn't seem to be in favour of bet-hedging anyway. It seems he'd prefer an atheist to a half-ass anyday.

Revelation 3:15-16
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

(edited to add second verse)

More wisdom from the elders:

"Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try."

[whitefork]

Just for fun:
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-mag1.htm
It’s really spelled megillah, and it’s the Hebrew word for a scroll. In particular, it refers to one of five books of the Old Testament, namely Song of Songs, Ruth, Lamentations, Ecclesiastes, and Esther, which are read on certain Jewish special days. The most common reference, though, is to the Book of Esther, which is read in its entirety at the feast of Purim.
Magilla Gorilla....what a concept.