How could God create me?

[Timothy]

Why did God create me, give me the intellect and discerning that I have, when he *knows* that he has made a creature that cannot believe in him, and will therefore reject him and be excluded from His Heavenly Goodliness?

I'm given the free will to follow God or not. But unfortunately, I *cannot* believe in Him, just as I cannot believe that the Sun will rise in the west, or that 17+12=31. I may have been shown evidence and transiently believed these things in the past (gotten myself turned around and mistaken west for east, miscounted during addition); I may have been shown perverse counterexamples (near the south pole you can make any direction east or west depending on where you stand, "It is in base 11, dude!") but when it comes down to the most fundamental understandings of the subject, I cannot believe in God.

It's not that I choose to reject God in a complicated decision process -- the choice does not exist. I cannot make a choice for something that goes against my whole being and which I know in my heart to be false.

Why would God create me? If God did create me, He is either incompetent or does not mind creating someone whose God-given gifts condemn him to Hell.

[pgwenthold]

My statement:

If I was created by God, then he created me as a rational thinking being, one that will not believe in things by faith, but requiring evidence. Thus, given that there is no empirical evidence for God, I do not believe he exists, and in order to believe that he exists, I would have to not use the gift of reason that God gave me. Given that not using my God given gifts would be an insult to God, and therefore a sin, I am left with one conclusion: If God exists and created me, then it would be a sin for me to believe in him.

[tsg]

I follow Roger Waters' philosophy: what god wants, god gets. If he wanted me to believe in him, I would. If he wanted me to believe in him of my own free will, I would.

[Marquis de Carabas]

Why would God create me?
Personal amusement.

[boloboffin]

The explanation given by Paul is that there are different types of useful things in your house. We have the good china and the fantastic expresso machine, and then we have the slop bucket and the toilet.

People who believe in God and follow his will willfully are the good china. The people who just cannot believe in God and follow his will unknowingly are the toilet. God uses us both for His purposes. Romans 9:18-24:

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

So hush it, lump of clay.

[Tricky]

Why did God create me?
As a bad example, meant to scare the Christians into line? :D

[Freethinker]

A.) Because he works in mysterious ways.

B.) He's an evil bastard who enjoys damning his creations to eternal agony.

C.) No god.


Take your choice.

[Silentknight]

Isn't it obvious? God created you in order to EAT you. (http://www.therevealer.org/archives/timeless_002161.php) :D


It actually makes sense, if you think about it. The first tools created by early hominids, as well as those used by certain animals today, were for the sake of feeding themselves. Throughout the bible, humans are compared to food, such as grain, figs, or sheep. If humans are the pinnacle of God's creation, then it stands to reason that God is simply fattening us up for the huge feast at the end of time. We already know how much he loves the smell of burning flesh (and the taste of blood) and he loves to encourage people to kill each other left and right. Hell, he technically even ate his own son, though not quite in the same way Saturn did.

[Tricky]

Isn't it obvious? God created you in order to EAT you. (http://www.therevealer.org/archives/timeless_002161.php) :D


It actually makes sense, if you think about it.
Indeed it does. "The Lord is my shepherd". Shepherds, in case you didn't know, eat a lot of mutton.

[Olowkow]

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.


It is absolutely inconceivable to me how a person could live his life under the yoke of such a depressing view of his own existence.

[Ron_Tomkins]

"Well, I'll tell ya... let me give you a little inside information about God. God likes to watch...."

Hehehe.... I love that speech

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMdKV9_mAxc

[bjornart]

17+12=29 in base 11

[Bikewer]

Perhaps god is not quite omnipotent and omniscient, and we are just part of his R&D work?

Seriously, you have to wonder about God's motivation in creating anything, much less sentient creatures. What would be the point? If God was truly omniscient and omnipotent, he could instantaneously bring anything he could think of into existence, and he could of course think of anything...
Not much satisfaction in creation, then, I'd think.

And why sentient creatures? Is God lonely? You wouldn't think so; perfect being and all... Kind of petty to create a bunch of creatures to adore and worship himself; rather like hiring groupies for your band.
If God just wanted to "share the love", why not just fill heaven with lots of shining, happy people and let it go at that?

[MG1962]

Perhaps god is not quite omnipotent and omniscient, and we are just part of his R&D work?

Seriously, you have to wonder about God's motivation in creating anything, much less sentient creatures. What would be the point? If God was truly omniscient and omnipotent, he could instantaneously bring anything he could think of into existence, and he could of course think of anything...
Not much satisfaction in creation, then, I'd think.

And why sentient creatures? Is God lonely? You wouldn't think so; perfect being and all... Kind of petty to create a bunch of creatures to adore and worship himself; rather like hiring groupies for your band.
If God just wanted to "share the love", why not just fill heaven with lots of shining, happy people and let it go at that?

Maybe he is simply waiting for us to grow up

[boloboffin]

It is absolutely inconceivable to me how a person could live his life under the yoke of such a depressing view of his own existence.

Depressing? Hey, buddy, the view from the china cabinet is marvelous! ;)

[Alt+F4]

Seriously, you have to wonder about God's motivation in creating anything, much less sentient creatures. What would be the point? If God was truly omniscient and omnipotent, he could instantaneously bring anything he could think of into existence, and he could of course think of anything...
Not much satisfaction in creation, then, I'd think.

And why sentient creatures? Is God lonely? You wouldn't think so; perfect being and all... Kind of petty to create a bunch of creatures to adore and worship himself; rather like hiring groupies for your band.
If God just wanted to "share the love", why not just fill heaven with lots of shining, happy people and let it go at that?

God needs us. He/She/It is incomplete without us. I'm not nearly as articulate as most of the folks who post here at the JREF forum, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Merko]

I like this quote:

There cannot be a God because if there were one, I could not believe that I was not He.

[Bob Klase]

17+12=29 in base 11


As mentioned in the OP:

I may have been shown perverse counterexamples (near the south pole you can make any direction east or west depending on where you stand, "It is in base 11, dude!")

[ExMinister]

The explanation given by Paul is that there are different types of useful things in your house. We have the good china and the fantastic expresso machine, and then we have the slop bucket and the toilet.

People who believe in God and follow his will willfully are the good china. The people who just cannot believe in God and follow his will unknowingly are the toilet. God uses us both for His purposes. Romans 9:18-24:



So hush it, lump of clay.


Good grief, that's really not very nice of Paul. Or God.

[Olowkow]

17+12=29 in base 11
True.

He must have meant:
17(b11) + 12(b11) = 31(b10)

[bjornart]

As mentioned in the OP:

Also mentioned in the OP, not the same addition I presented. For it to fit, you have to go for the interpretation in the post above this. See?

[Bikewer]

God needs us. He/She/It is incomplete without us. I'm not nearly as articulate as most of the folks who post here at the JREF forum, so I'll just leave it at that.
That's just silly.

Why would a "perfect" being "need" anything?

Which is my point. God (as posited by Christians at least) is perfect. Why then would it need to create such dreadfully imperfect beings as human beings. Since God is omniscient, it would know how dreadfully imperfect we are.... And so on....

Of course, you can posit all sorts of other gods which are not nearly so perfect and powerful.

I once put forth the idea that all a "god" would need is two things:

1. Extremely long lifespan.

2. The ability to cause "bang" singularity events.

[uruk]

God needs us. He/She/It is incomplete without us. I'm not nearly as articulate as most of the folks who post here at the JREF forum, so I'll just leave it at that.

What gift do you get a god who created the universe?

[Alt+F4]

What gift do you get a god who created the universe?

A card?

[bjornart]

What gift do you get a god who created the universe?

Overcooked mutton.

[Alt+F4]

That's just silly.

Why would a "perfect" being "need" anything?

Which is my point. God (as posited by Christians at least) is perfect. Why then would it need to create such dreadfully imperfect beings as human beings. Since God is omniscient, it would know how dreadfully imperfect we are.... And so on....

I wasn't arguing it from a Christian viewpoint, but rather as an unaaffiliated monotheist. But if you are referring to Christianity, as in a virgin birth and resurrection....well that's just silly.