Best Modern Fantasy and SF

[Uzzy]

Hello there.

I've been looking for good books in my two favourite genres, Fantasy and Science Fiction, ever since I finished A Feast for Crows. I've been floundering between various short books for a few months now, and I want a weighty series to get my teeth into. The problem is that most of the new books coming out in those two genres tend to be multi 1000 page book epic series. So, I don't particularly want to invest a large amount of time testing one of these books if it turns out to be poor later on.

So, can you guys suggest any good series for me to check out? I'm open to any type of books set in those two genres. Additionally, does anyone know if a Rotten Tomatoes type site exists for novels? I would be very interested in looking at one. Thanks in advance.

[Morrigan]

If you liked A Song of Ice and Fire... well, I'm sorry, you won't find anything quite as good. :) But I can always recommend Robin Hobb's works: the Farseer trilogy (first book is "Assassin's Apprentice") followed by the Liveship Traders trilogy, and then the Tawny Man trilogy, in this order. Yes it is nine books, all set in the same world, but it is a finished series, so there is that.

If nine books daunt you, try perhaps "Memory, Sorrow & Thorn" by Tad Williams. 3 books (or four if you consider the last volume as two, since the paperback was split into two tomes). Though I prefer his sci-fi (with cyberpunk influences) opus, Otherland, myself.

For sci-fi, I strongly recommend you read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons. I haven't read the other two after, but the first two provide enough closure. Anyway, it's probably the most ambitious and epic fantasy I've ever read... and yes, I'm including Dune in there.

Have you tried reading GRRM's other stuff? His standalone horror novel Fevre Dream is especially good. His sci-fi novel, Dying of the Light, is also pretty cool, but I didn't like it as much as the rest.

I would recommend The Lies of Locke Lamora by Scott Lynch, but the truth is that it goes against what you ask for, since a) it's an unfinished series and b) I only read the first one so I don't know if it will get poor later on. The first volume is especially good, though.

[RandomJSF]

I will recommend the sci-fi works of C.J. Cherryh to just about anybody who asks. Unfortunately, not everybody likes her style, especially in the way she wrote the Foreigner saga... If you require constant action to keep you interested, then C.J. Cherryh, and in particular the Foreigner books, are not for you.

That being said, the Foreigner books are among the best I've had the pleasure to read. The books are almost entirely political intrigue, with some action thrown in. It is difficult to explain the idea behind the story, as it is very complex... But I'll do my best.

The books are written (for all but the occasional chapters) from the view of a single human, who is the only human allowed to live amongst the atevi, the alien species featured in the books. The atevi are humanoid, but the similarities tend to end there: The atevi think entirely in numbers, for instance, so much so that their very lives are governed by them. Assassination is a legal institution, as long as you file Intent with the Assassin's Guild to obtain their permission before carrying out the assassination attempt. The differences go on and on, and that's rather the point of the story... The main theme is that of the attempt this single human, who is the ambassador for all of humanity to the atevi, to understand the people he's living with.

It's much more complicated than that, but as I said, it's a bit hard to explain... Also, the series is at 9 books presently (three trilogies), and while Cherryh could have left any of the trilogies off and effectively called it the end of the series, she always leaves a bit more open for the next set of books... So it's presently an ongoing series.

I would also highly recommend Modesitt's Corean Chronicles, the first book being Legacies. This series (six books long, actually two trilogies) is an interesting mix between fantasy and sci-fi settings. To paint a general picture, imagine a world where cavalry is still the major force on the battlefield, the primary weapons are guns (with cartridges, not muzzle-loaders) for long range and sabres for close range, then mix magic in. The series gets more sci-fi in the second trilogy, which is a prequel to the original trilogy. It's definitely more fantasy-based, but it's certainly not medieval fantasy.

The Corean Chronicles also have a MUCH larger amount of action than the Foreigner books... There were a couple of points where I was so riveted to the action in the 5th and 6th books that I would skip ahead a chapter to read the action, then come back to read the few pages of dialogue that preceded it, heh.

Also, the ending for the final book, Soarer's Choice, is quite possibly the most satisfying ending to a series I've ever read.

~~ RandomJSF (at work and a bit tired)

[Zalbik]

You may want to try Stephen Erikson's Malazan Book of the Fallen series...but be warned, it's not for everyone.

It's very graphic, he dumps you right into the action, there's a heck of a lot of characters and backstory, and the characters are virtually comic-book powerful.

That being said he's carved out an amazingly unique story with an intense plot and intricate backstory. I just hope he can keep it up for the rest of the series.

At least read the series as far as the second novel, Deadhouse Gates. If you don't enjoy that one, there something wrong with you. :p

Oh, it's also a heck of a hard read. The story doesn't flow in normal: Here's character X, here's his life, here's the evil foozle, look something happens to our friend X to send him on some quest to kill the foozle, that some many BAD fantasy writers fall into (yes, I'm looking at you Goodkind, Brooks, Farland). The story jumps around semi-randomly & you just have to hold on & figure things out on the way. It's well worth it though.

I second the motion on Tad Williams stuff. I also like most of Guy Gavriel Kay's stuff...

[noblecaboose]

China Mieville is a great contemporary author to check out.
It's absolutely amazing stuff. I won't go into too much detail because I've only read one of his books so far, but my husband is really, really into him. He has this great alternate reality that's very steampunk-esque fantasy, but he doesn't ruin it by trying to explain everything. He just kind of drops you into his world and everything is made clear through the context. Since all of the characters accept the reality of his world, why should he ruin the story trying to explain it to a newcomer (the reader)? It's fabulous and very meaty.

[gtc]

I would second China Mieville's work along with John Barnes and SM Stirling.

[Fiona]

Just to second all of Morrigan's recommendations and to add that I am half way through Robin Hobb's Soldier Son trilogy. It is set in a different world, and I found it a little slower to get started but I now think it is as interesting as the ones already mentioned. :)

For an older series I really enjoyed Julian May's Saga of the Exiles, and the Intervention series. Though I did not like the Trillium books at all, sadly

[PixyMisa]

On the Science Fiction side of things, Iain M Banks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_M_Banks) and Alastair Reynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Reynolds) are two of my favourites at the moment. For Banks, start with The Player of Games or Against a Dark Background; both stand alone pretty effectively. For Reynolds, start at the beginning with Revelation Space.

I'll second CJ Cherryh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Cherryh), who's written a ton of stuff in both genres. You can try the Morgaine books (fantasy adventure, but deeper than most), Foreigner and Cyteen (SF political intrigue), or the Fortress series (fantasy political intrigue).

[PixyMisa]

For sci-fi, I strongly recommend you read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons. I haven't read the other two after, but the first two provide enough closure.
Read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion and then stop; the others aren't nearly as good. Or even read Hyperion and stop, since it's the real standout of the four volumes.

[Kotatsu]

Fitzpatrick's War (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fitzpatricks-War-Daw-Science-Fiction/dp/0756402719/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1205568427&sr=8-1) by Theodore Judson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzpatrick%27s_War) is a great Scifi novel, of sorts, written as a new edition of a biography. It is an excellent book, but hard to summarise in a way that displays its excellence.

[RandomJSF]

I'll second CJ Cherryh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Cherryh), who's written a ton of stuff in both genres. You can try the Morgaine books (fantasy adventure, but deeper than most), Foreigner and Cyteen (SF political intrigue), or the Fortress series (fantasy political intrigue).


Always nice to come across someone else who has read Cherryh and would recommend her. Most of my friends have difficulty with books like Foreigner, where you may go most of a long chapter almost entirely inside the main character's internal self-dialogue.

Cherryh's Chanur Saga was quite possibly the first sci-fi I ever read. Ah, such fond memories. Cherryh's ability to invent and flesh out alien species and civilizations that are so completely antithetical to normal human thought has always amazed me. The fact that, in the Chanur Saga, the SINGLE human character isn't even the main character is exceptional; that Cherryh has the ability to write a story where you, a human reader, feel that the only human in the story is the alien... Such a talent she has.

Yes, I'm gushing, but I happen to be a huge fan of Cherryh's sci-fi work. :)

I'm rather happy that there's a 10th Bren book (as Cherryh calls them) in the works.

[lionking]

On the Science Fiction side of things, Iain M Banks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_M_Banks) and Alastair Reynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Reynolds) are two of my favourites at the moment. For Banks, start with The Player of Games or Against a Dark Background; both stand alone pretty effectively. For Reynolds, start at the beginning with Revelation Space.

I'll second CJ Cherryh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Cherryh), who's written a ton of stuff in both genres. You can try the Morgaine books (fantasy adventure, but deeper than most), Foreigner and Cyteen (SF political intrigue), or the Fortress series (fantasy political intrigue).
Stole my thunder about Banks and Reynolds.

[lionking]

Read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion and then stop; the others aren't nearly as good. Or even read Hyperion and stop, since it's the real standout of the four volumes.
You are reading my mind again. I did read all four the the last two were a chore.

[PixyMisa]

Ah, I forgot Chanur! Lot of fun, that series.

She's also finished a sequel to Cyteen, so we should see that later this year.

[huw-l]

Any of Charles Stross's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Stross) sci-fi works.

[Bikewer]

A big second for Charles Stross; I just finished his new one, Halting State. Excellent.

Likewise China Miehville. The prose, the inventiveness....Superb.

I'm a big fan of Greg Bear also. A "big idea" guy, he delivers. The two-book Forge of God and Anvil of Stars are really great. Starts out with a bang...The Earth blows up. Anvil of Stars has a wonderful take on how far-future space warfare might be conducted.

Just picked up K.T.Parker's Devices and Desires after seeing it on a "best of " list. Looks very good.

[D'rok]

I second the China Meiville and the Iain Banks.

Have you tried Gene Wolfe? The Book of the New Sun is four volumes at about 200 pages each. Be warned though...it is subtext, symbolism and allusion rather than straight narrative. (Which is why it is great).

[Uzzy]

I've consistently heard good things about China Mieville. I may have to check him out.

As for Hyperion, well, I've read that one recently on a trip to Poland. It's one of my favourite sci-fi books. Even read Fall of Hyperion, Endymion and Rise of Endymion. Loved them all!

Thanks for the other suggestions guys. I'll have a look into all of them.

[jimbob]

nthed Ian M Banks. Alistair Reynolds is also good, but his endings can be pretty poor.

Ken Macleod (friend of Ian Banks) is also worth a look (if you can ignore the disproportionate influence on galatic history wielded by some scottish trots in the class of '74...). IIRC Newtons wake also started in a far-off planet, and was decided on Rannoch Moor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rannoch_Moor), a dramatic place maybe, but I doubt it will be of pivotal importance in galatic hiostory.

[jimbob]

ETA: and Neal Asher for a bit of lite relief, but fast moving. The "Human Polity" has some similarities to the "Culture". His politics aren't like Ian Banks, I'd wager...

[Morrigan]

Read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion and then stop; the others aren't nearly as good. Or even read Hyperion and stop, since it's the real standout of the four volumes.
I disagree, Fall of Hyperion was really fantastic as well. And of course in my initial post I wrote "epic fantasy" and I really don't know why, I clearly meant "epic science-fiction".

[rocketdodger]

I have been systematically reading the Hugo winners, from most recent back, and that works out pretty well. I wouldn't say that being an award winner is a guarantee of greatness, or that books which *didn't* win won't be great, but its a place to start at least.

I haven't found any Hugo winners that aren't good, although the Red/Green/Blue Mars series read like ******* geology textbooks 3/4 most of the time.

[gumboot]

I would strongly recommend:

Cecilia Dart-Thornton:
The Bitterbynde Trilogy
-The Ill-made Mute
-The Lady Of Sorrows
-The Battle Of Evernight
Some of the most original and well-written fantasy I've come across.

Robin Hobb:
The Farseer Trilogy:
-Assassin's Apprentice
-Royal Assassin
-Assassin's Quest
The Liveship Traders:
-Ship Of Magic
-The Mad Ship
-Ship Of Destiny

And if you like George R R Martin I'd strongly consider looking at what I call "historical fantasy" - that is fantasy-type books set on earth or on sort of earth-parallels:

Bernard Cornwall
Stonehenge
Warlord Chronicles (Arthurian)
-The Winter King
-Enemy Of God
-Excalibur

Mary Stewart
The Merlin Trilogy (Arthurian)
-The Hollow Hills
-The Crystal Cave
-The Last Enchantment

Jack Whyte
The Camulod Chronicles (Arthurian)
-The Skystone
-The Singing Sword
-The Eagle's Brood
-The Saxon Shore
-The Fort At River's Bend
-The Sorcerer: Metamorphosis
-Uther
-The Lance Thrower
-The Eagle

[gumboot]

Double post.

[Mojo]

I'll second Ken McLeod, and add Greg Egan.

[GreyICE]

China Mievelle (Fantasy)
- Perdido Street Station
- The Scar
- The Iron Council

C.S. Friedman (SF/Fantasy)
- In Conquest Born (SF)
- The Coldfire Trilogy (Fantasy)
- This Alien Shore (SF)

Michael Swanwick (SF)
- Stations of the Tide

Neil Stephenson (SF)
- Snow Crash
- The Diamond Age: or a Young Ladies' Illustrated Primer

John Varley
- Steel Beach
- Millenium
- Titan/Wizard/Demon (trilogy)

Nancy Kress
- Beggars in Spain

Roger Zelazny
- The Amber Chronicles
- Lord of Light
- Lord Demon

Joe Haldeman
- The Forever War

Neil Gaimen
- Sandman (Graphic Novels)
- American Gods

I'll edit the list as more occur to me. Anything on this is basically pure gold.

[wollery]

I'm currently reading Chindi by Jack McDevitt, and I've read several of his other books. I recommend them highly.

[Charlie Monoxide]

I highly recommend this book: http://www.nesfa.org/reviews/Mann/sparrow.html

Although it is set in an SF world, it is more a commentary on religion and relationships (IMHO).

I'm looking forward to the sequel "Children of God"

Charlie

[GreyICE]

I highly recommend this book: http://www.nesfa.org/reviews/Mann/sparrow.html

Although it is set in an SF world, it is more a commentary on religion and relationships (IMHO).

I'm looking forward to the sequel "Children of God"

Charlie

Hate to ruin it, but its not as good. Still, The Sparrow definitely belongs on the list.

[epeos76]

The Algebraist
Ian M. Banks

Cordelia's Honor et seq.
Lois McMaster Bujold

The Hard SF Renaissance (http://www.amazon.com/Hard-SF-Renaissance-David-Hartwell/dp/0312876351)
Dozens of first rate short stories from some of the best writers around.

[Charlie Monoxide]

Hate to ruin it, but its not as good. Still, The Sparrow definitely belongs on the list.Thanks for the heads up.

Like most things in life, the sequel is never as good as the first ...

Charlie (still gonna read it) Monoxide

[Worm]

I would recommend Raymond Feist. The early books.

Magician
Silverthorn
A Darkness At Sethanon

the Empire series is worth a read as well

Daughter of the Empire
Servant of the Empire
Mistress of the Empire

after that, things go downhill a bit,

[Morrigan]

Dude, he asked for good fantasy, in the veins of GRRM. He didn't ask for children's fluff. :\

[Kevin_Lowe]

Raymond E. Feist can die in a fire. China Mieville's stuff is for people who haven't seen eclectic scifi/fantasy worlds before, because the plot and characters sure aren't anything special, and Gene Wolfe just rewrites Vance in an affected, distant style. Like Mieville he's seen as enormously original and clever by people who don't know any better but I don't think his work has any particular merit.

I'd recommend The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick over anything by Mieville, and The Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga by Jack Vance over anything by Wolfe.

Hearty seconds for CJ Cherryh and Lois McMaster Bujold.

Sheri S. Tepper has written some terrible potboilers but also some real gems. The Gate to Women's Country and Shadow's End are very good but on the harrowing side. Family Tree and The Fresco are more lighthearted, Grass is in the middle.

My brother, whose tastes are reasonably reliable, highly recommends "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" (that's the title of a book, not two author's names) by Susanna Clarke. I haven't read that one myself yet, partially because I found a CJ Cherryh book I didn't have yet in a second hand stall today. Yay!

[GreyICE]

Raymond E. Feist can die in a fire. China Mieville's stuff is for people who haven't seen eclectic scifi/fantasy worlds before, because the plot and characters sure aren't anything special, and Gene Wolfe just rewrites Vance in an affected, distant style. Like Mieville he's seen as enormously original and clever by people who don't know any better but I don't think his work has any particular merit. I can see your point on Perdido Street Station, but how can you say the characters in The Scar or Iron Council are shallow? The Lovers? Tanner Sack? Judah Low?

I'd recommend The Iron Dragon's Daughter by Michael Swanwick over anything by Mieville, and The Eyes of the Overworld and Cugel's Saga by Jack Vance over anything by Wolfe. Swanwick = good. I like Stations of the Tide more than The Iron Dragon's Daughter. Not really a fan of Vance too much, but Wolfe is pretty bad too.

My brother, whose tastes are reasonably reliable, highly recommends "Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell" (that's the title of a book, not two author's names) by Susanna Clarke. I haven't read that one myself yet, partially because I found a CJ Cherryh book I didn't have yet in a second hand stall today. Yay! Ooh! That one is a definite must.

[alfaniner]

Just an observation...

I know that Strunk & White recommend underlining book titles. But that was before the internet and the convention of underlining hyperlinks. Is it acceptable to use bold for book titles instead?

I can't think of any recently published SF book that I have liked as well as much of the older stuff, and many I have disliked intensely.

[Wudang]

Definitely second Erikson's Malazan books. How he juggles so many story lines, characters and races and so on is quite amazing as so many writers of fantasy and "extruded fantasy product" flounder with a much smaller set.

[Kevin_Lowe]

Definitely second Erikson's Malazan books. How he juggles so many story lines, characters and races and so on is quite amazing as so many writers of fantasy and "extruded fantasy product" flounder with a much smaller set.

I wanted to like the Malazan books, and the setting had a lot of potential, but I never got to the stage of caring about any of the characters or about the story. I just watched the superheroes fight for a while and lost interest. (From memory I read Gates of the Moon and the following novel before I gave up).

As far as Mieville's plots and characters go, I confess I did not read anything past Perdido Street Station because friends told me his other books were more of the same and no improvement. If the general consensus is that his later books have plots and characters that you could give a rat's about I'd think about picking them up.

While I think of it, Tim Powers is another hit-and-miss author with some impressive hits (The Anubis Gates, Last Call), and Guy Gavriel Kay is sometimes a bit cute and annoying but has done a lot of fun stuff. As unashamed Tolkien-recycling fantasy goes The Fionavar Tapestry is really good.

Someone listed Zelazny's Lord of Light earlier - I think a lot of Zelazny's work (particularly the Amber stuff) has been wildly overrated, and it's just a fact that a lot of it is repetitive, but Lord of Light deserves all the praise it gets.

[jimbob]

Zelazney's hardly "modern" SF...

But I like it.

We had "Today we Choose Faces" at home.

I quite enjoyed some of the Michael Scott Rohan stuff (fantasy).

Mary Gentle too

[Bikewer]

'Tis rather interesting to see different folk's take on these various authors. I've read all of Miehville's stuff to date, and enjoyed them all. I suppose if you want character building The Iron Council might be the best, but I enjoy them for the prose and the inventiveness.

I love both Wolfe and Vance, and never had a moment's association between the two. Oh, I suppose that Wolfe's far-future "torturer" novels might have some slight correlation with Vance's Dying Earth stories, but they're so utterly different in tone...

It's what makes art interesting, I suppose.

I just got the sequel to Iron Dragon's daughter, The Dragon of Babel, but haven't started it yet as I have started K.J. Parker's Devices And Desires.
This is a fantasy novel dealing with a technological society in the midst of an essentially-feudal land. One of the main characters is an engineer, who escapes a sentence of death for the crime of "technological innovation"; he made a machine that did not conform to specs....
Interesting so far, but a tad slow.

[chapka]

Well, you may want to take my advice with a grain of salt, since I hardly seem to read any sci-fi or fantasy these days.

But one of the last sci-fi series I really enjoyed was Stephen R. Donaldson's "Gap" series. If space opera is your cup of tea, I recommend it. As an added bonus, the first book, The Real Story, is very short and pretty well self-contained, so if you don't like it you haven't missed much.

Also, while it's not exactly modern or fantasy...if you haven't read it (and too many people haven't), I always recommend Alexandre Dumas' original The Three Musketeers and the first sequel, Twenty Years After. A lot of the stock elements of modern fantasy (and SF for that matter) were practically invented by Dumas, and in a good translation, it's still pretty hard to beat. You might be surprised how little you miss the magical elements (especially with fate doing a pretty good stand-in).

[RobRoy]

I'll second Bernard Cornwall, although he is not fantasy, but rather historical fiction. Still, for sword-swinging action in a historical setting, no one is finder right now.

Since no one has mentioned it, Stephen King's Gunslinger series is certainly worth a look. It has its failings, but the narrative is quite good.

I've also followed Joel Rosenberg's Guardians of the Flame series. I believe he's up to ten books at this point, and since the world he created is fairly organic (main characters drop out, die, are replaced by new characters, etc.), there is potentially no end to the stories he can tell. Certainly the first three books are worth a read starting with The Sleeping Dragon.

I know I'll catch hell for it, but you asked recommendations: Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series is good fantasy. Not great and, since the last book is not slated for release until Autumn of 2009, it's hard to say how it will round out. Still, I'm re-reading the series, and though it has frustrations and failings, its a solid fantasy story.

For science fiction I always recommend A Different Light by Elizabeth Lynn. It's a short book, but it just reads like poetry to me. It's one of the few books that I read again and again.

S. Andrew Swann tells a great set of tales in what is called the Moreau Omnibus. Four books, starting with Forests of the Night, which is a classic noir detective story woven masterfully into a science fiction setting of impressive proportions. His Hotile Takeover series, of which he's stated there will be another set of books, is actually part of the same universe, but with a couple of centuries thrown into the divide. It's a worthwhile story as well.

[X]

I have two sets of recommendations.

-----

Some books are just fun to read. No deep messages or intense characterizations. Essentially mental junk-food. But we all know junk food is tasty. This is the first set:

Old Man's War, The Ghost Brigades (sequel to OMW) and The Android's Dream, by John Scalzi.
Scalzi writes with what is, to me, wit. The books are light fare, but interesting, and a good way to pass time. The plots are relativley simple, but the writing is highly entertaining.

Rats, Bats & Vats, The Rats, the Bats & the Ugly (sequel to RBV) and Genie Out of the Bottle (prequel to RBV) by Eric Flint and Dave Freer
The best way to describe these two books is to quote the review from Booklist: "Space opera grows fur and wings in this jape by two accomplished writers. . . . Politically correct? C'mon! Great fun? Ah, yes." Having read Shakespear will help you to understand some of the comments made by characters during the books. For those interested, Rats bats and Vats, as well as the short prequel Genie Out of the Bottle are available free at Baen's free online library, here (http://www.baen.com/library/defaultTitles.htm).

The Deathstalker Saga, by Simon R. Green
This rather long space opera combines elements of fantasy and sci-fi (ESP, magic, swordfights, technology and strangeness) in one entertaining blend. The series consists of 8 books (Deathstalker, Deathstalker Rebellion, Deathstalker War, Deathstalker Honour and Deathstalker Destiny comprise the original series, while Deathstalker Legacy, Deathstalker Return and Deathstalker Coda follow some two hundred years after the events of the first five novels) and one prequel (Twilight of the Empire also called Deathstalker Prelude, which consists of 3 short stories involving characters from the rest of the series, and explaining some of the background of things discussed during the series).

-----

Other books are thought-provoking and make me think. They often excel in character development, and are frequently (though not always) heavier in tone than the books listed above. These books comprise my second list:

C. J. Cherryh has been mentions, but I'm going to throw out two more titles, more fantasy than sci-fi. Rider at the Gates and it's sequel, Cloud's Rider.
I haven't yet read the sequel, because I haven't yet found a copy, but Rider at the Gates was a very interesting novel, and definately different from the everyday offerings. It has Cherryh's typical attention to detail, character and societal development, all revolving around events and motivations that are alien to the reader.

The Eternity Brigae, but Stephen Goldin.
This little old tome remains the only book that has ever actually frightened me. Read it, if you can find it, and tell yourself whether or not, if the technology existed, such a thing would be done.

Species Imperative Series by Jules E. Czerneda.
This series consists of 3 books, Survival (book 1), Migration (book 2) and Regenration (book 3). Just as Cherryh excells and developing utterly alien societies, so too does Czerneda excell at creating utterly alien species. These books are definately worth a look for anyone looking for a good, long story.

[Morrigan]

Oh, please please don't waste your precious time with Wheel of Time. It's really not worth it. Trust me. :(

[RobRoy]

Oh, please please don't waste your precious time with Wheel of Time. It's really not worth it. Trust me. :(

See, I told you I would catch remarks for the recommendation. I should have bet money! :D

[Fiona]

No takers :(

[Worm]

Dude, he asked for good fantasy, in the veins of GRRM. He didn't ask for children's fluff. :\

Each to their own (etc.)

I don't hold up Feist as a marvel of modern fantasy, but his early work has kept me occupied for long periods of time - if that makes me a child, then c'est la vie.

[Wudang]

K J Parker - started 2 of his trilogies, both pretty good starts then the second book tedious droning on about crafts - how to make a bow, work a smithy etc. Now, some of that adds depth to a book but this just bored me.

[Wudang]

I have just finished http://www.amazon.co.uk/Blue-War-Punktown-Jeffrey-Thomas/dp/1844165329/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206536898&sr=8-1 and rather enjoyed it and am now finding it difficult to put down "The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters"
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Glass-Books-Dream-Eaters/dp/0141027304/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206536974&sr=1-1

[RobRoy]

I don't hold up Feist as a marvel of modern fantasy, but his early work has kept me occupied for long periods of time - if that makes me a child, then c'est la vie.

Not at all. Feist obviously appeals to a number of readers. Not me, but there it is.

Along this same line, Mickey Zucker Reichert has some entertaining notions. I was hooked by his first novel of the Bifrost Guardians series, Godslayer. I've read some of the others in that series, but sadly the first one was the most worthwhile. A friend of mine greatly enjoyed his Renshai Trilogy, but I can't say the same thing. It was only moderately amusing and I was glad to have not spent money on the books themselves.

[Skeptic Guy]

Just an observation...

I know that Strunk & White recommend underlining book titles. But that was before the internet and the convention of underlining hyperlinks. Is it acceptable to use bold for book titles instead?

I can't think of any recently published SF book that I have liked as well as much of the older stuff, and many I have disliked intensely.

IMHO, Strunk & White is always the way to go. Underline book titles and put magazine titles in quotes.

Oh, please please don't waste your precious time with Wheel of Time. It's really not worth it. Trust me. :(

I wrote about this in another thread, but I wasted more time with that series. The first couple were ok, but Jordan just couldn't bring it to an end. Now there's about a thousand plot lines and a couple hundred characters. If his wife decides to finish it and publishes the last volume, I'll read it only because I put so much time into it. (Don't ask me why since I didn't like it so much. I'm an enigma.)

I'm not sure that you'd consider him modern SF, but anything by Harlan Ellison is good, especially The Beast that Shouted Love at the Heart of the World, a collection of short stories.

[RobRoy]

If his wife decides to finish it and publishes the last volume, I'll read it only because I put so much time into it. (Don't ask me why since I didn't like it so much. I'm an enigma.)

Not if. The final book, A Memory of Light, is scheduled for release in the Autumn of 2009. Brandon Sanderson was selected to complete the book, with sections already written by Jordan, and Jordan's notes created for this purpose.

Knife of Dreams, the penultimate book, renewed my hope in the series. Not restored, mind you, but enough that I re-found the enjoyment I had lost through some of the more trudging texts. My recent re-reading of the series has reinforced that it was, if not what it at first promised, at least worthwhile.

[TobiasTheViking]

For sci-fi, I strongly recommend you read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons. I haven't read the other two after, but the first two provide enough closure. Anyway, it's probably the most ambitious and epic fantasy I've ever read... and yes, I'm including Dune in there.
having read all of both series i can honestly, from the depth of my heart say..


HERESY

Ahh.. that was nice...

Hyperion is a really good book, a really good series, though i think the first is the worst(it is kinda different in style). Later there are some, ah, surprising interpretations of Jesus. :)

In a good way, (not just saying that as an atheist)

[Mahatma Kane Jeeves]

Just an observation...

I know that Strunk & White recommend underlining book titles. But that was before the internet and the convention of underlining hyperlinks. Is it acceptable to use bold for book titles instead?

The MLA says that italics can be used in place of underlining (but they prefer underlining).

The APA recommends italics.

The Chicago Manual of Style recommends italics.

The American Sociological Association recommends italics.

Mahatma Kane Jeeves recommends purple, Comic Sans italics.

Of course, these guides are all geared toward print publications. On the web, the general rule is to not underline anything that isn't a link. [Web Style Guide (http://webstyleguide.com/type/emphasis.html)]

[Kotatsu]

A related question: Has anyone here read Thomas Harlan's Oath of Empire series? I have found books 1,2 and 4 in second-hand shops, and they seem to be interesting, but I haven't started reading them yet.

[aries]

I always start out by advocating the authorship of the grand dame of SF:

Ursual K. Le Guin

Her books and novels might not be scientific as in there's loads and loads of tech stuff. They tell more about a future and how humanity and the persons in them react to the future. The techno advances is more of a backdrop to the story about how the people cope in her envisioned future.

And yes, she did write other books than the 'tombs of atuan'.
(the wizard from earthsee-series)

Then, you really should read the Danish author (yes, I know shameless nation-promoting :D but she is that good ) Lene Kaaberbøll's books. It is possible that she is known under another name in the English speaking world, though. But her books about 'the shamer' are really well, although they might be considered more fantasy than Science Fiction.

[Morrigan]

I wrote about this in another thread, but I wasted more time with that series. The first couple were ok, but Jordan just couldn't bring it to an end. Now there's about a thousand plot lines and a couple hundred characters. If his wife decides to finish it and publishes the last volume, I'll read it only because I put so much time into it. (Don't ask me why since I didn't like it so much. I'm an enigma.)
Oh, I know how you feel - I'm exactly the same. I think Wheel of Time is mostly crap, but for the same reasons you outlined, I'm gonna read that final volume... which thankfully IS going to come out, though, well, I've seen samples of that Brandon's writing and it's frankly weak, I'm not a native English speaker and I think I could do better. But then again we didn't read WoT for Jordan's writing either so I don't think it matters much.

[James Fox]

Some recent reads I’ve enjoyed have been Olympus and Ilium by Dan Simmons and the Baroque Cycle by Neil Stevenson. The Stephenson books take a significant time investment but are worth it. Also Stephenson’s Cryptonomicon is a very good read. An oldie but goodie is Frank Herbert’s Dune. If you’ve seen the movie or SF channel adaptation try and forget then completely before reading the book.

I saw someone recommend Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell…. well just don’t, I mean really, don’t even waste your time, when there are really good books available that have real endings and real plots. (not that I have an opinion)

Here’s a place to get more ideas: http://www.sfsite.com/yearsbest01.htm

[Jeff Corey]

I've recently reread A Clockwork Orange, A Scanner Darkly, Venus on the Half Shell, Nothing like a feast of Burgess, Dick and Trout.

[rocketdodger]

For sci-fi, I strongly recommend you read Hyperion and Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons. I haven't read the other two after, but the first two provide enough closure. Anyway, it's probably the most ambitious and epic fantasy I've ever read... and yes, I'm including Dune in there.

Seconded.

I finally made it to Hyperion in my backwards treck through the Hugo winners, and I can honestly say it is the most engrossing book I have read yet (as in, I simply cannot put it down at night.)

[rocketdodger]

I saw someone recommend Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell…. well just don’t, I mean really, don’t even waste your time, when there are really good books available that have real endings and real plots. (not that I have an opinion)

Other than the ending, I quite enjoyed it.

The strange sense of humor infused throughout makes it a fun read.

[Menalitus]

Larry Niven - Ringworld
Greg Bear - Eon - Eternity
Stephen Baxter - Anything
Ian M Banks - Anything

All are genius

[Menalitus]

But one of the last sci-fi series I really enjoyed was Stephen R. Donaldson's "Gap" series. If space opera is your cup of tea, I recommend it. As an added bonus, the first book, The Real Story, is very short and pretty well self-contained, so if you don't like it you haven't missed much.




I'm reading the Gap series at the moment and enjoying it immensely.

[Wudang]

Others I've enjoyed this year or last
Scott Lynch "The Lies of Locke Lamora"
Patrick Rothfuss "The Name of the Wind"
Brian Ruckley "Winterbirth"

[Morrigan]

I second The Lies of Locke Lamora. Excellent stuff with very witty writing. :)

[Stir]

OK, I'm only about half way through the second volume, but it's one of the best things I've read in years, and I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread:

Joe Abercrombie's 'The First Law' trilogy

I'm just hoping it stays this good through the end ...

[Wudang]

Nice one Stir. I enjoyed the first, and he did a good job of making a sympathetic-ish character out of a torturer. The second is sitting in my waiting to be read pile as I decided I'd re-read Lies of locke Lamora.

[Skeptic Guy]

Not if. The final book, A Memory of Light, is scheduled for release in the Autumn of 2009. Brandon Sanderson was selected to complete the book, with sections already written by Jordan, and Jordan's notes created for this purpose.

Knife of Dreams, the penultimate book, renewed my hope in the series. Not restored, mind you, but enough that I re-found the enjoyment I had lost through some of the more trudging texts. My recent re-reading of the series has reinforced that it was, if not what it at first promised, at least worthwhile.

Oh, I know how you feel - I'm exactly the same. I think Wheel of Time is mostly crap, but for the same reasons you outlined, I'm gonna read that final volume... which thankfully IS going to come out, though, well, I've seen samples of that Brandon's writing and it's frankly weak, I'm not a native English speaker and I think I could do better. But then again we didn't read WoT for Jordan's writing either so I don't think it matters much.

Sorry it took so long to respond.

Well, that's good. I'll keep an eye out for A Memory of Light. I don't know anything about Brandon, but Morrigan's build-up does not impart to me a great deal of hope.

I just hope that Rand starts using Bale Fire to wrap things up.

[Bikewer]

I liked Norrell and Strange as well. Very clever and subtle humor throughout, and an interesting take on the idea of magic.

[RobRoy]

Sorry it took so long to respond.

Well, that's good. I'll keep an eye out for A Memory of Light. I don't know anything about Brandon, but Morrigan's build-up does not impart to me a great deal of hope.

I'm up to Path of Daggers in my re-reading of the series, and while there have been some sections that were less-than-stellar (such as the whole lead up to the use of the Bowl of the Winds, blech!) overall the series has remained entertaining for me, and actually renewed my faith in partaking this journey. Of course, the next books, Winter's Heart and Crossroads of Twilight are where I recall being the least enjoyable, and more of a trial to trudge through.

I just hope that Rand starts using Bale Fire to wrap things up.

I doubt that would occur more than he has used it so far, in a very limited measure, given the potential effects of balefire (unraveling the Pattern itself). I'm of the opinion that Rand will break the last seal on the Dark One's prison, bringing about the final confrontation, which will end better than we all think.

[Jon.]

I'll throw in another vote in favour of Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norell. Yes, the ending was weak, but the world was interesting and the characters well-drawn.

My favourite SF author is William Gibson, and I haven't seen him mentioned here yet. Two trilogies (the Sprawl trilogy, which really started cyberpunk; and the Bridge trilogy, set in the not-too-distant future*) plus two books that are not technically SF (they are set in the present day) but have that feel: Pattern Recognition and Spook Country.

The Sprawl trilogy (Neuromancer, Count Zero and Mona Lisa Overdrive) is very much "hard" SF, and very cyberpunk.

The Bridge trilogy (Virtual Light, Idoru and All Tomorrow's Parties) is not as hard, set in the nearer future, extrapolating some technological and social trends a few decades.

All excellent.

*Actually, I think Virtual Light is set in about 2004, but many of its technological innovations have not yet arrived, so I still consider it "near-future" SF. ;)

[athon]

I can see your point on Perdido Street Station, but how can you say the characters in The Scar or Iron Council are shallow? The Lovers? Tanner Sack? Judah Low?

Yup. Fully agree. His first book, King Rat, was clever but I wouldn't put it up there with the greats. It echoed Gaiman in many ways, only Gaiman did it better.

Perdido Street I happened to really like. The ending was something of a let down for me, but the characters and interactions were rather good.

The Scar was superb. I've read a fair deal of fantasy in my time, and I still like to read it (I very rarely read a book a second time). The Remade, the Anophele, the undead...all of it's great. The plot was much better as well.

Iron Council was also quite good. I loved the fact Mieville felt quite daring using gay male protagonists, yet it barely created a fuss at all. It worked perfectly with the story, not overshadowing it like I've seen happen before.

Swanwick = good. I like Stations of the Tide more than The Iron Dragon's Daughter. Not really a fan of Vance too much, but Wolfe is pretty bad too.Iron Dragon's Daughter contained fantastic imagery. The drowning horse scene still sends shivers up my spine. I wouldn't rank it above Mieville, though, probably for the plot being nothing to write home about. It was well written and the characters were fun, but I got to the end and didn't feel like it was the best book ever written, while the Scar I turned back to page one and started to read again.

And throw in another vote for Strange and Norell. Brilliant piece of work, that one.

Athon

[rats]

I'm glad China Miéville has been mentioned as no one around me IRL has ever heard of him, until I introduce them of course!

I also thought Scar* was brilliant.

I was under the impression Perdido Street Station was his first novel, so am pleased to be corrected, as I thought the prose was somewhat strained in parts. It's been many years since I read it so I don't really remember any specific examples, but it he seemed to use 'big' words to impress when more well known words would have been more appropriate, especially in context of a character's thought or speech.

Bear in mind the above is a very mild criticism! I mean, check out my sentence writing skills!

* I first heard the Gash, by Flaming Lips, while reading Scar :)

[Mark6]

On the Science Fiction side of things, Iain M Banks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iain_M_Banks) and Alastair Reynolds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alastair_Reynolds) are two of my favourites at the moment. For Banks, start with The Player of Games or Against a Dark Background; both stand alone pretty effectively. For Reynolds, start at the beginning with Revelation Space.

Definitely agree about Reynolds; I had not read anything by Banks yet. Although I recommend starting with "Chasm City" -- it was written later than "Revelation Space", but takes place earlier, and provides better backstory. Many small details in "Revelation Space" make no sense unless you already read "Chasm City", but the reverse is not true.

[Gevaudan]

I like books that have fun with the tired old fantasy cliches - here are a few of that type.

Diana Wynne Jones wrote the hilarious devil's dictonary style "Toughpick Guide to Fantasyland" which mericlessly mocks genre conventions, then went on to write the novels "The Dark Lord of Derkholm" and "Year of the Griffin" which have a great deal of fun playing in a terribly cliche'd fantasy world. In the first, wizards are forced to take obnoxious tourists from our world on carefully choreographed 'adventures' by a cruel businessman with a demon on his side. The sequel follows a wizard's griffin daughter on her first year at a magical academy far more interesting than Hogwarts. Just about anything Ms. Jones has written is pure gold.

"Witch & Wombat" by Carolyn Cushman also has a long-suffering witch escorting a bunch of people from the mundane world on an adventure, although in this case her troublesome clients are a bunch of kids (and a jerky game reviewer who she eventually loses patience with and transforms into a giant dung beetle) who think they're experiencing a very realistic virtual reality game. You won't beleive the identity of the Big Baddie at the end.

If you can find the old Greyhawk novels by Rose Estes in a used-book store, be sure to snap them up. Although they're licensed product, they actually read as incredibly goofy spoofs of Dungeons & Dragons.

Alan Dean Foster's "Journeys of the Catechist" trilogy (Carnivores of Light and Darkness, Into the Thinking Kingdoms, and A Triumph of Souls) are fun reads. A self-proclaimed "simple farmer" gets sucked into rescuing a princess from an evil Dark Lord, along with a hard-drinking swordsman who has convinced himself the farmer is secretly a wizard hunting treasure and a sarcastic, talking lion-cheetah hybrid. Foster crams every chapter with clever fantasy concepts.

[Brainache]

I'd start with Stephen Baxter's Timelike Infinity and then read all the rest of his Xeelee sequence books. Then read all of the Destiny's Children books. After that, if you are anything like me, you will search out and devour all of his other stuff as well.

[Menalitus]

I'd start with Stephen Baxter's Timelike Infinity and then read all the rest of his Xeelee sequence books. Then read all of the Destiny's Children books. After that, if you are anything like me, you will search out and devour all of his other stuff as well.


I agree completely Baxter is a God! (oops, probably not the best choice of words for jref :)). I will rephrase... if god were to exist he would be Stephen Baxter, or at the very least he would be Baxter's dad.

The first book I read of his was the Time Ships, it is an authorized sequel to the Time Machine by HG Wells, absolute genius and in my opinion one of the greatest scfi authors ever.

[Gevaudan]

Baxter's a bit of a plagarist, though. A lot of the future species he describes in Evolution were ripped directly from Dougal Dixon's Man After Man, and I've noticed he tends to repeat the same ideas and descriptions over and over in his various books.

[Menalitus]

Baxter's a bit of a plagarist, though. A lot of the future species he describes in Evolution were ripped directly from Dougal Dixon's Man After Man, and I've noticed he tends to repeat the same ideas and descriptions over and over in his various books.


Not read Dixon but I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ideas aren't new, I guess that's always going to be a problem with scifi there are so many crazy exciting concepts out there already it must be really hard to come up with new stuff all the time.

Regardless of the possibility of some of the concepts sounding familiar I would still rate Baxter as one of my favorite scifi authors. He is one who I would feel very comfortable mentioning in the same sentence as Larry Niven, Alistair Reynolds, Ian M Banks etc.

As an aside I have just started reading The Butlerian Jihad (Book one of the Legends of Dune trilogy), its been 20 years since I read Dune etc but it is looking really promising, this may be helped by the input of Kevin J Anderson who wrote the extremely entertaining (and as yet unfinished) "Saga of the Seven Suns".

[Wudang]

X - thanks for recommending Old Man's War. I'd shrugged it off from the blurb but it's a good read so far.

[Furi]

Pretty much as a lot of said Banks, Reynolds, Baxter and Simmons (all are pretty damned groovy Hyperion, Endymion, Ilium etc)

suprised no-one has mentioned Peter Hamilton, nights dawn is good if you want a couple of door stoppers, and quite enjoyed the Mindstar series for a couple of quick night time reads (but then that just might be my taste and I will get crucifed on a lampost and my eviscerated corpse filled with horse crap for suggesting it)

Kim Robinsons RGB Mars and Martians are as pointed out earlier a field manual to planetary terraforming but are good and will help pass a lazy day or 2.

[Wudang]

Good grief, no. I enjoyed the Mindstar books and Nights Dawn. I thought pandora's star and Misspent Youth were just okay.

BTW - nice to see another Half Man, Half Biscuit fan