Buckwheat or Li'l Abner could get jobs as AP "writers"

[bigred]

[pet peeve]

Language skills? Who needs those when you're writing for the Associated Press? Apparently no one, ultimately....this is but one of a near continual stream of Grammar 101 bonehead errors I see.

From a CNN headline today on melting glaciers (PS this is not a thread on global warming -plenty over in the other forum(s) ):

"He urged governments to agree stricter targets for emissions reductions at an international meeting..."

and

"...the glaciers shrank by 4.9 feet in 2006, the most recent year for which data are available..."


:boggled: I just can't believe allegely "professional" writers could so frequently make such glaring errors. I guess this is what happens when kids are passed along despite poor grades or given as many chances as they need to get the right answer.

[/pet peeve]

[Lilith]

[pet peeve]

"...the glaciers shrank by 4.9 feet in 2006, the most recent year for which data are available..."

[/pet peeve]

Ok - at the risk of being ridiculed for not figuring it out on my own, what is grammatically incorrect in this sentence?

[bigred]

It should be "...data is available..."

Granted, that's a subtler error than many, but still....

PS: "OK" is all caps. Oh well, at least you didn't "spell it out" (i.e.., "Okay"). ;)

[Gagglegnash]

Hi
It should be "...data is available..."

Granted, that's a subtler error than many, but still....

PS: "OK" is all caps. Oh well, at least you didn't "spell it out" (i.e.., "Okay"). ;)

Not to call the kettle black, what with being a pot and all, but DATA are plural. DATUM is singular.

[Lilith]

Hi


Not to call the kettle blacker, what with being a pot and all, but DATA are plural. DATUM is singular.

That's what I've been taught.

[Gravy]

It should be "...data is available..."Is that what they're teaching in Dogpatch these days? There are several grammatical errors in your OP. I'll just point out that it's "allegedly" and "nearly continual" (although if you mean "nearly constant," as you probably do since you used the word "stream," the phrase is "nearly continuous." Continual denotes repetition, but not necessarily constant repetition). :)

[Jeff Corey]

Hi


Not to call the kettle black, what with being a pot and all, but DATA are plural. DATUM is singular.

As Buckwheat would say, "Otay!"

[brodski]

It should be "...data is available..."

Granted, that's a subtler error than many, but still.... An error so subtle as to not, in fact, be an error at all...

Oh well, at least you didn't "spell it out" (i.e.., "Okay"). ;)

And that would have been an error because...?

A note to all "grammar pedants", writing in a style which you do not find attractive, or which deviates from the rules which you had drummed into you is not always an error.

The chances are that the "rule" you were taught was a stylistic preference and nothing more.

[brodski]

Hi


Not to call the kettle black, what with being a pot and all, but DATA are plural. DATUM is singular.

Data is plural. ;)

Or actually not, in modern English the word data may be used as either a singular (mass noun) or as a plural, neither is usually considered incorrect especially if you are consistent.

[dann]

According to my Danish-English dictionary:
data sb.pl.
1. data (NB sg. el. pl.)

(el. means or)

[Lilith]

Data is plural. ;)

Or actually not, in modern English the word data may be used as either a singular (mass noun) or as a plural, neither is usually considered incorrect especially if you are consistent.

Yes, (the word) 'data' is plural, so I've been taught.

But many of us who know this still say aloud "our data shows ..." as though it is singular. I'll admit that I've done it.

Yeah, I've read that the 'singular' definition of data is being accepted, but it was not originally acceptable. Either way, the original CNN quote, "... for which data are available," is correct.

Another VERY common grammar mistake in science writing is the phrase "compared to" instead of "compared with". When you compare something to something else, you are likening it to the other thing, but if your intent is to show contrast, use with.

[Jekyll]

Yes, (the word) 'data' is plural, so I've been taught.

But many of us who know this still say aloud "our data shows ..." as though it is singular. I'll admit that I've done it.

As Brodski says, it is a mass noun, despite referring to a collection of many entities, it can be treated as singular like the word water.

It's grammatically valid and seems to be a more natural usage than this "data are" business.

[Redtail]

Data is plural. ;)

Or actually not, in modern English the word data may be used as either a singular (mass noun) or as a plural, neither is usually considered incorrect especially if you are consistent.

No, the other one was Lore. (Sorry, somebody had to do it.)

[shadron]

[pet peeve]

Language skills? Who needs those when you're writing for the Associated Press? Apparently no one, ultimately....this is but one of a near continual stream of Grammar 101 bonehead errors I see.

[/pet peeve]

We'll never hear the end of this one. A forum (any Internog forum) is the wrong place to get sensitive to trivial errors, up to the point where they become unintelligible. On this forum, it's often hard to tell the difference, as so much borders on the unintelligible.

Case in point: http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3532011&postcount=1

How often do people re-read their typing before committing them?

[shadron]

Just a repost.

[Elizabeth I]

The chances are that the "rule" you were taught was a stylistic preference and nothing more.

...like that thing about not "splitting the infinitive," which, if I recall correctly, arose from Latin grammar, where splitting the infinitive was not incorrect, it was impossible, because in Latin, all infinitives were one word (ambulare = "to walk").

[brodski]

It's grammatically valid and seems to be a more natural usage than this "data are" business.

Quite, however some people get quiet hung up on Latinate words in modern English, holding to the belief that English usage should be in line with Latin use, I like watching them squirm when talking about more than one agenda. ;)

[brodski]

...like that thing about not "splitting the infinitive," which, if I recall correctly, arose from Latin grammar, where splitting the infinitive was not incorrect, it was impossible, because in Latin, all infinitives were one word (ambulare = "to walk").

Or the erroneous belief that a preposition is not something which you should end a sentence with.

[ImaginalDisc]

Or the erroneous belief that a preposition is not something which you should end a sentence with.

Yes, and scrupulously adhering to the faulty grammar rules of grammarians who think English grammar is derived from Latin is something up with which I will not put.

[Skeptic Ginger]

I was going to restate a common pet peeve of mine but the way the thread is going I'm almost afraid to. But I shall vent at the risk of having my own errors corrected, (like whether that comma belongs in the last sentence below ;)).

I wish someone would inform the news media of the difference between blackmail and extortion. There are frequently repeated errors in news stories calling incidents of extortion, blackmail.

[godofpie]

Or the erroneous belief that a preposition is not something which you should end a sentence with.
You mean it is ok..sorry, OK to dangle my participle? Yea!:cool:

[bigred]

Is that what they're teaching in Dogpatch these days? No, it's what they're teaching in any school worth a flip. But tell Spanky I said hi.

;) Truth to be told, both uses of data are technically correct, so I withdraw that one - although I maintain that "data are" in most cases sounds just plain wrong IMO - and regardless, it doesn't change the fact that AP (and others I'm sure) rountinely makes some mighty dumb errors.

There are several grammatical errors in your OP. Disregarding for a moment that I am no longer a professional writer...message boards are exceedlingly informal and I long ago stopped aiming for grammatical perfection on them - and in fact have even opted for known errors in favor of a more "write as you speak" approach or because I thought it somehow worked/sounded "better" in some way.

But even then you won't see me mix up "to" with "too," "their" with "there," "could of" for "could have" (etc etc) - and I've gotten a lot less an...er better about ripping people for such stuff. :)

I'll just point out that it's "allegedly" well duh. (typo)

and "nearly continual" (although if you mean "nearly constant," as you probably do since you used the word "stream," the phrase is "nearly continuous." Continual denotes repetition, but not necessarily constant repetition). :)OK now you're being as pick as....um.....as whether data is singular or plural. :cool: Actually I might have gotten away w/that if I'd said "near-continual," although even that might've been a bit off.

[bigred]

And that would have been an error because...?I looked it up and "okay" is considered acceptable. That's even dumber than data being plural. ;) I hate words which become acceptable just because enough people botch it up for a long enough time, but oh well.


We'll never hear the end of this one. A forum (any Internog forum) is the wrong place to get sensitive to trivial errors, up to the point where they become unintelligible. On this forum, it's often hard to tell the difference, as so much borders on the unintelligible.
:confused: I'm talking about AP writers, not people making posts on a message board. I eventually got number to that out of necessity (although admittedly sometimes still can't resist a roll of the eyes for the worst examples).

[bigred]

I was going to restate a common pet peeve of mine but the way the thread is going I'm almost afraid to. But I shall vent at the risk of having my own errors corrected, (like whether that comma belongs in the last sentence below ;)).
Not to mention 2 "comma errors" above. ;)

[Showmeproof]

This is a discussion that I will definitely stay out of! My grammar has never been my strong point :)

[Skeptical Greg]

Think of it this way..
Think of data as a bunch of datum .. A singular bunch ..

If you have a bucket full of data, it is still one bucket and one bunch of data ..

The ( bunch of ) data is in the bucket ..

Would you say " The water are in the bucket .. " ?

[Lilith]

This is a discussion that I will definitely stay out of! My grammar has never been my strong point :)

Awww - c'mon! Be brave - join in. Anyways, you just did.

Really, though, I know what you mean. I got dinged for "Ok", which, you know, could have been a typo. It wasn't - I just never much thought about whether OK should be 'Ok', 'OK', 'ok', or 'okay' - I didn't think there was a correct way or a wrong way to write it. And I love grammar. I enjoy a grammar debate, even when I'm proven wrong. And I was. I still don't like "OK" - to me, it looks like I'm YELLING.

I agree with whomever said that forum grammar need not be as correct as journalistic grammar. For goodness sake, some people just have a knack for using good grammar with ease, while others will forever struggle. Not to mention the posters for whom English is a second language. While the posts ought to be understandable, I think the real goal is a conversational exchange of information and not a grammar lesson.

In this thread, however, incorrect grammar will be highlighted! Poster beware.

This is so much fun! I LOVE this thread! Thanks bigred.

[Lilith]

Think of it this way..
Think of data as a bunch of datum .. A singular bunch ..

If you have a bucket full of data, it is still one bucket and one bunch of data ..

The ( bunch of ) data is in the bucket ..

Would you say " The water are in the bucket .. " ?

Really? I still go with "the data are" as correct. And I would say that the water molecules are in the bucket. Well, no, I wouldn't, but water IS a collection of water molecules (and usually some various ions and minerals, etc.) and as such it makes sense that it is singular. Data is plural of datum. A collection of data might be called a dataset?

[Skeptical Greg]

... but water IS a collection of water molecules (and usually some various ions and minerals, etc.) and as such it makes sense that it is singular....

As opposed to a collection of datum ( data ) being singular ?

You seemed to have strengthened my analogy, while attempting to show that I was somehow in error..

[Lilith]

As opposed to a collection of datum ( data ) being singular ?

You seemed to have strengthened my analogy, while attempting to show that I was somehow in error..

But "data" isn't a collection of datum - that's like saying that dogs is a collection of dog. A bunch of dogs is called ... dogs. A bunch of data is called data. (Notice, the word data in that sentence is in a prepositional phrase "of data", and the verb 'is' goes with "a bunch"). Data is plural for datum.

But, yes, people use the word data all the time as though it is singular. I admitted that I do this in speaking often, and have heard others do the same. But I've been taught that it is plural.

[bigred]

Awww - c'mon! Be brave - join in. Anyways, you just did.

Really, though, I know what you mean. I got dinged for "Ok", which, you know, could have been a typo. It wasn't - I just never much thought about whether OK should be 'Ok', 'OK', 'ok', or 'okay' - I didn't think there was a correct way or a wrong way to write it. And I love grammar. I enjoy a grammar debate, even when I'm proven wrong. And I was. I still don't like "OK" - to me, it looks like I'm YELLING.

I agree with whomever said that forum grammar need not be as correct as journalistic grammar. For goodness sake, some people just have a knack for using good grammar with ease, while others will forever struggle. Not to mention the posters for whom English is a second language. While the posts ought to be understandable, I think the real goal is a conversational exchange of information and not a grammar lesson.

In this thread, however, incorrect grammar will be highlighted! Poster beware.

This is so much fun! I LOVE this thread! Thanks bigred.
lol - you're welcome. I liked it more before I was corrected. ;)

PS regarding "OK," it's an acronym, and therefore "OK" is correct, even if people's bastardization of it has now dictated otherwise (I know, I'm being silly/anal/etc, but as I said, it's a pet peeve thing). It stands for "Old Kinderhook," which was Martin Van Buren's nickname.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi
Data is plural. ;)

Or actually not, in modern English the word data may be used as either a singular (mass noun) or as a plural, neither is usually considered incorrect especially if you are consistent.

Well - I don't talk me much English. I talk purest Colloquial.

I do believe that data, like deer, has, indeed, become number independent.

It was what I said or, "Grammar GeStaPo Powers... ACTIVATE!" The way I originally chose seemed kinder.

[Elizabeth I]

...regarding "OK," it's an acronym, and therefore "OK" is correct, even if people's bastardization of it has now dictated otherwise (I know, I'm being silly/anal/etc, but as I said, it's a pet peeve thing). It stands for "Old Kinderhook," which was Martin Van Buren's nickname.

From The Straight Dope (http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_250.html):

Eric Partridge, in Origins (1983), says OK derives from the OK Club, which supported Martin "Old Kinderhook" Van Buren in 1840. That isn't wrong, but it's only half the story.

William and Mary Morris, in the Morris Dictionary of Word and Phrase Origins (1977), mention the OK Club and give several other theories as well, including the off-the-wall idea that OK comes from "Aux Cayes," a port in Haiti noted for its rum. They imply the matter is still shrouded in mystery.

Baloney. The etymology of OK was masterfully explained by the distinguished Columbia University professor Allen Walker Read in a series of articles in the journal American Speech in 1963 and 1964.

The letters, not to keep you guessing, stand for "oll korrect." They're the result of a fad for comical abbreviations that flourished in the late 1830s and 1840s.

Read buttressed his arguments with hundreds of citations from newspapers and other documents of the period. As far as I know his work has never been successfully challenged.

[Skeptical Greg]

.... But I've been taught that it is plural.

One more thought ..

A set of ' data ' can consist of only one item .. i.e., one temperature reading ...( though I would suspect this rarely happens in the true sense of the word )


That would seem seem to hold a convention of plurality somewhat unjustified.. ( in the true sense of the word ...)

[rjh01]

Never complain about grammar errors in English. It is almost impossible to write anything without a possible grammar error.

The only time you should complain about such errors is where the meaning is not clear.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi
Never complain about grammar errors in English. It is almost impossible to write anything without a possible grammar error.

The only time you should complain about such errors is where the meaning is not clear.

Ladies and gentlemen: I do believe we have us a WINNER!

[Tumblehome]

Hopefully, we'll all learn to talk English good.

[Jekyll]

But "data" isn't a collection of datum - that's like saying that dogs is a collection of dog.

1 dog, 2 dogs.
1 datum, 2 data?

It doesn't work, which is why mathematicians invented the word `datums', and everyone else uses the phrase `data points'.

The convention that stops you putting an unqualified number in front of the word data also means you should use the word `is' with it.

[Lilith]

Jekyll seems to have a point.

Hmmmmmm ...

[Jeff Corey]

As far as scientific writing, I've never seen "the data shows", its always been "show",

[joobie]

PS regarding "OK," it's an acronym,

it's not an acronym. it's an initialism.

:)

[ImaginalDisc]

it's not an acronym. it's an initialism.

:)

The origin of "O.K." as an initialism doesn't appear to have legs. I don't think anyone knows exactly what its origin is.

[bigred]

Never complain about grammar errors in English. It is almost impossible to write anything without a possible grammar error.

The only time you should complain about such errors is where the meaning is not clear.phooey. :cool:

And even if true, I'm talking about glaring errors, not relatively obscure technicalities or debatable comma usage (etc). I'm just waiting for one of them to spell cat with a k.

As far as scientific writing, I've never seen "the data shows", its always been "show",
Grammar never was a strong point for scientists. Math geeks :rolleyes:

;)

[Lilith]

phooey. :cool:


Are you sure it isn't spelled "fooey"?

:p

[brodski]

Data is plural for datum.


Only if you are speaking Latin, unfortunately for your argument, and for Robert Lowth, we aren't.

Don't attempt to apply logic to English grammar, especially not logic based upon a foreign language, the only authority on the English language are those nebulous bodies Common usage and Common Understanding.

If you want to describe the modern sue of data, it is a mass noun ("non-count noun"), much closer to water, than to dog which is a "count noun".

[Spindrift]

1 dog, 2 dogs.
1 datum, 2 data?

It doesn't work, which is why mathematicians invented the word `datums', and everyone else uses the phrase `data points'.

The convention that stops you putting an unqualified number in front of the word data also means you should use the word `is' with it.

The octopus is swimming away.
The octopi are swimming away.

[Jekyll]

The octopus is swimming away.
The octopi are swimming away.

That's not a counter example :p.
1 octopus, 2 octopi/octopodes/octopuses/whatever.

You still can't say "2 data".

[Spindrift]

That's not a counter example :p.
1 octopus, 2 octopi/octopodes/octopuses/whatever.

You still can't say "2 data".

Point taken and conceded. (Missed it the first time around.)

[Skeptical Greg]

The origin of "O.K." as an initialism doesn't appear to have legs. I don't think anyone knows exactly what its origin is.

Some people claim to know...

From page one of this thread..

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3533329&postcount=33

Read buttressed his arguments with hundreds of citations from newspapers and other documents of the period. As far as I know his work has never been successfully challenged.

[ImaginalDisc]

Some people claim to know...

From page one of this thread..

http://forums.randi.org/showpost.php?p=3533329&postcount=33

Oh, neato! I must read that. Thanks. Sorry I missed it.

[bigred]

Are you sure it isn't spelled "fooey"?

:p

Now look you.....

[joobie]

The origin of "O.K." as an initialism doesn't appear to have legs. I don't think anyone knows exactly what its origin is.

it still wouldn't be an acronym.

[bigred]

?? It is most obviously an acronym:

ac·ro·nym (āk'rO-nĭm')
n. A word formed from the initial letters of a name

[Jeff Corey]

If it's from "oll korrect" it's an initialism. If from "Old Kinderhook", an acronym. It's a floor wax, it's a dessert topping.
But try to say "the data is" in a science journal and they'll fleer you.

[JWideman]

All AP articles are written according to the AP Style Manual. So even if the grammar is incorrect - it isn't - you're still wrong.

[bigred]

It's a floor wax, it's a dessert topping.
lol - I wonder how many got that

[Jeff Corey]

All AP articles are written according to the AP Style Manual. So even if the grammar is incorrect - it isn't - you're still wrong.
Please explain that. What's AP? We use APA style.

[Jeff Corey]

lol - I wonder how many got that
It's a dessert topping, you cow!
Hey, hey,calm down, both of you. New Shimmer is both a floor wax and a dessert topping...
Don't get me started on doggie downers and puppy uppers.

[PBTree]

If it's from "oll korrect" it's an initialism. If from "Old Kinderhook", an acronym. It's a floor wax, it's a dessert topping.
But try to say "the data is" in a science journal and they'll fleer you.


I am not so sure. An acronym is generally a word formed from a series of letters.
The explanation I heard from an English professor, is that you have to be able to speak the letters as a word, before it becomes an acronym. Otherwise its an initialism.

eg. QANTAS, MAD, UNESCO, etc. In this case, I am not sure if OK is being spoken as a word or as the two letters. hmm.

++

I'm just glad I wasn't born in England, as they have completely lost the art of speaking English. The letter r has disappeared. You would be Jeff Cowey, bigred would be bigwed and pwepositions would be wife in the language.

The letters th are wight behind r and should be gone by the end of this decade, wiff any luck.

Just have a listen to any of the tv shows (including news weaders) emanating out of that countwy and you will see what I mean.

:)

[brodski]

I am not so sure. An acronym is generally a word formed from a series of letters.
The explanation I heard from an English professor, is that you have to be able to speak the letters as a word, before it becomes an acronym. Otherwise its an initialism.

eg. QANTAS, MAD, UNESCO, etc. In this case, I am not sure if OK is being spoken as a word or as the two letters. hmm.

++

I'm just glad I wasn't born in England, as they have completely lost the art of speaking English. The letter r has disappeared. You would be Jeff Cowey, bigred would be bigwed and pwepositions would be wife in the language.

The letters th are wight behind r and should be gone by the end of this decade, wiff any luck.

Just have a listen to any of the tv shows (including news weaders) emanating out of that countwy and you will see what I mean.

:)

bollocks :)

[PBTree]

bollocks :)

:p Always thought that was a great pommy saying.

Have a listen to Jamie Oliver, Nigella, the two presenters on Location Location, Sarah Beeney, the City Gardener, any Sky news presenter, any upper crust being interviewed, any non-celebrity on any of the shows named above, most of the cast of Antiques Roadshow (except Michael of course. He speaks proper), most of the contestants and experts on Bargain Hunt, Beckham (both of them, him really bad), most of the politicians being interviewed, most of the sportsmen being interviewed, etc etc.

Sorry to say, they have all lost the art of using R. Jamie Oliver is just about English illiterate. Wolled woast lamb wiff baked potatoes. yikes.

We need Count Dracula from the Muppets to get over there immediately and start the remedial process. "I vant to use the letter R".

:)

[rjh01]

Hi


Ladies and gentlemen: I do believe we have us a WINNER!

OK. What did I win? What have I won?

What is so special about my post? Or is it the only serious post in this thread? In which case :boxedin:.

[joobie]

?? It is most obviously an acronym:

ac·ro·nym (āk'rO-nĭm')
n. A word formed from the initial letters of a name

it's not, because you are pronouncing it as letters, not as a word (cf scuba or laser).

:)

[Lilith]

Please explain that. What's AP? We use APA style.

They were referring to Associated Press, as mentioned in the original post in this thread. I don't know if there is an AP Style Manual.

[bigred]

I'm just glad I wasn't born in England, as they have completely lost the art of speaking English. The letter r has disappeared. You would be Jeff Cowey, bigred would be bigwed and pwepositions would be wife in the language.?? Brits talk like Elmer Fudd now?

ha-ha-ha-ha-ha.

[brodski]

:p Always thought that was a great pommy saying.

Have a listen to Jamie Oliver, Nigella, the two presenters on Location Location, Sarah Beeney, the City Gardener, any Sky news presenter, any upper crust being interviewed, any non-celebrity on any of the shows named above, most of the cast of Antiques Roadshow (except Michael of course. He speaks proper), most of the contestants and experts on Bargain Hunt, Beckham (both of them, him really bad), most of the politicians being interviewed, most of the sportsmen being interviewed, etc etc.

Sorry to say, they have all lost the art of using R. Jamie Oliver is just about English illiterate. Wolled woast lamb wiff baked potatoes. yikes.

We need Count Dracula from the Muppets to get over there immediately and start the remedial process. "I vant to use the letter R".

:)

You take Mockney, estuary English and an upper class accent an generalise to four entire nations? nations which have some of the greatest diversity in accent and dialect in a compressed geographical space as you'd find anywhere in the world?

Good god, that's almost as stupid as criticising the grammar of someone who uses data as a plural ;)

[bigred]

Which isn't nearly as stupid as even thinking that using data as a plural even sounds correct, Mr Weisenheimer. ;)

Anyway, AP strikes agin, sho nuff!

"...he suggested that artificial satellites hovering above fixed spot above Earth could be used to relay telecommunications..."

:mgbanghead Sounds like Tonto.

PS link if interested http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/03/18/obit.clarke/index.html

[PBTree]

You take Mockney, estuary English and an upper class accent an generalise to four entire nations? nations which have some of the greatest diversity in accent and dialect in a compressed geographical space as you'd find anywhere in the world?

Good god, that's almost as stupid as criticising the grammar of someone who uses data as a plural ;)

Not sure where the 'four' nations came into it. I was addressing England (largest country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Home of my convict forebears.

Whilst your argument is valid it can't be denied that what I said appears to be the way it is. (in England).

Whether it be the use of data or datum, W or R, the English language is losing ground fast and it won't be long before we are all talking 'SMS Speak'.

sigh :)


ps. not sure what language the Welsh, Scotish & Irish speak (just joshing) :p

[PBTree]

Which isn't nearly as stupid as even thinking that using data as a plural even sounds correct, Mr Weisenheimer. ;)

Anyway, AP strikes agin, sho nuff!

"...he suggested that artificial satellites hovering above fixed spot above Earth could be used to relay telecommunications..."

:mgbanghead Sounds like Tonto.

PS link if interested http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/03/18/obit.clarke/index.html


Wonder how they would judge the height of those satellites? Would it be from the Earth, or from the fixed spot above Earth that they are hovering above?

I'm confused :)

[Timothy]

[pet peeve]

Language skills? Who needs those when you're writing for the Associated Press? Apparently no one, ultimately....this is but one of a near continual stream of Grammar 101 bonehead errors I see.

I'm talking about AP writers, not people making posts on a message board.
To reiterate what other posters wrote, AP writers will follow the AP Stylebook (and if not, will be corrected by AP editors). The entry for "data" is:

DATA A plural noun, it normally takes plural verbs and pronouns. See the collective nouns entry, however, for an example of when data may take singular verbs and pronouns.

and

COLLECTIVE NOUNS
... snip ...
Right: The data is sound. (A unit.)
Right: The data have been carefully collected. (Individual items.)

Don't bash a writer for a usage that an entire organization has chosen to adopt.

[Timothy]

Which isn't nearly as stupid as even thinking that using data as a plural even sounds correct, Mr Weisenheimer. ;)

Anyway, AP strikes agin, sho nuff!

"...he suggested that artificial satellites hovering above fixed spot above Earth could be used to relay telecommunications..."

:mgbanghead Sounds like Tonto.

PS link if interested http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/03/18/obit.clarke/index.html

No, that would be CNN's mistake, as indicated by the (CNN) at the beginning of the article. If you're going to be flamboyantly indignant, get your target right.

I've noticed CNN's sloppiness on many occasions in their haste to get something published online. Typos, grammatical errors, and inaccuracies show up in the earliest versions but are typically corrected by the time the article's been up for a dozen minutes or so. I wouldn't be surprised if the errors you quote aren't gone presently.

[UserGoogol]

Which isn't nearly as stupid as even thinking that using data as a plural even sounds correct, Mr Weisenheimer. ;)

Anyway, AP strikes agin, sho nuff!

Except for the data one which is an extremely common usage, all the examples you're giving are easily attributable to typos, and seem easy enough to miss.

[leonAzul]

[pet peeve]
"He urged governments to agree [to] stricter targets for emissions reductions at an international meeting..."[/pet peeve]

No one else caught that one?

Oh well. *sighs*

[Polaris]

Deleted

[brodski]

Whether it be the use of data or datum, W or R, the English language is losing ground fast and it won't be long before we are all talking 'SMS Speak'.


Losing ground to what? And by what standard? Language evolves, it moves on, deal with it don't fear change.

You may as well morn the loss of thee and thou from all but a few dialects, or bemoan the great vowel shift.

[brodski]

Not sure where the 'four' nations came into it. I was addressing England (largest country of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland). Home of my convict forebears.


You mentioned "every politician you hear interviewed" you do realise that non-English politicians are overrepresented in the UK Parliament? And the last PM as well as the current one are not English?

[Cuddles]

Whilst your argument is valid it can't be denied that what I said appears to be the way it is. (in England).

I'm in England and I certainly deny it. Aside from one of my secondary school teachers, I haven't heard a single person speak the way you claim all 50 million English people do.

OK, technically I've heard people do so while making fun of said teacher, but I don't think that counts.

Whether it be the use of data or datum, W or R, the English language is losing ground fast and it won't be long before we are all talking 'SMS Speak'.

Aside from the fact you appear to be talking utter crap, you're exactly right. Perhaps you should try listening to people speak somewhere other than a few of the worst TV programs in existence before trying to make wild claims about an entire country and language.

[bigred]

No, that would be CNN's mistake, as indicated by the (CNN) at the beginning of the article. If you're going to be flamboyantly indignant, get your target right.

I've noticed CNN's sloppiness on many occasions in their haste to get something published online. Typos, grammatical errors, and inaccuracies show up in the earliest versions but are typically corrected by the time the article's been up for a dozen minutes or so. I wouldn't be surprised if the errors you quote aren't gone presently.

You are correct on both counts.

That's what I'm talkin 'bout!

[PBTree]

I'm in England and I certainly deny it. Aside from one of my secondary school teachers, I haven't heard a single person speak the way you claim all 50 million English people do.

OK, technically I've heard people do so while making fun of said teacher, but I don't think that counts.



Aside from the fact you appear to be talking utter crap, you're exactly right. Perhaps you should try listening to people speak somewhere other than a few of the worst TV programs in existence before trying to make wild claims about an entire country and language.

Maybe so. You can guarantee I will be listening to quite a few others now in my search for the missing R. If I discover different and it can be shown that I am just being negative, there will be an instant apology and those shows that started this will be thrown into the bin. ;)

BBC then SKY news are next, even though I have been there (Sky) and it is a bit embarassing when your guests see you chuck a rubber brick at the tv because the commentator calls it cwicket.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi
OK. What did I win? What have I won?

What is so special about my post? Or is it the only serious post in this thread? In which case :boxedin:.

Your post was made of win! It was about the essence of grammar, which is communication.

When it comes to getting what you're thinking into someone else's understanding, formal spelling and grammar take a back seat to the actual transmission of data.

....

Unless, of course, your data is specifically about formal spelling or grammar.

Communication is what's important. As an example, I have no trouble saying 2 data if it gets my specific meaning across the gulf of misunderstanding.

....

I have no trouble with things like, "jackassulation," or, "buttkickular," either, so I tend to be atypical.

[godless dave]

"He urged governments to agree stricter targets for emissions reductions at an international meeting..."

I think that's correct in British English. You've already been told that "data are" is correct in both British and American English.

[MothraAttack]

It should be "...data is available..."

Granted, that's a subtler error than many, but still....

PS: "OK" is all caps. Oh well, at least you didn't "spell it out" (i.e.., "Okay"). ;)

You are correct on "OK" usage in AP style. However, according to AP editor David Minthorn: "Also, data might need plural verb "are" -- but you know the reference and it could be singular." (Google: "AP style ask the editor" for the site)

It appears that for subject-verb agreement the original article was correct.

[brodski]

I think that's correct in British English. You've already been told that "data are" is correct in both British and American English.

In British English there is no grammatical error, however it is sloppily worded as it could lead to confusion as to whether the agreement should take place at the international meeting, or the reduction in emission should take place at said meeting. however I'd be more worried about an audience that could not tell from context what the intended meaning was, rather than the vaguely ambiguously worded sentence.

[Gagglegnash]

Hi

It's like a scab. I can't help but pick at it!

The original text reads in full (according to Google):
He urged governments to agree stricter targets for emissions reductions at an international meeting next year in the Danish capital, Copenhagen.
...and is datelined Zurich, Switzerland. As such the author probably wasn't American.

Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/agree) has meaning 10 as:
10. Chiefly British. to consent to or concur with: We agree the stipulations. I must agree your plans.


Restated, that would be, "He urged governments to consent to stricter targets for emissions reductions at an international meeting next year in the Danish capital, Copenhagen."

Pick pick, pick pick pick.